My road to recovery

[xxaleksi]

Hey guys. Been lurking on the forum for a couple months now but decided to sign up just now.

I've been dealing with pfs since November, took fin for less than a week and then quit due to sexual sides.

After crashing the first two months were hell as I hadn't heard of pfs before and had no idea what was happening to me. I found this site thanks to a few people on PH mentioning it. I started the protocol partially in January, and have been fully on board since early February. I did the juice feast and am now doing everything that TMO mentions, except sun exposure (it's hard where I live in the winter months) but will start that too when the sun comes out. I have to mention that at the moment I'm only cycling 16 herbs, not 21.

Anyway, my symptoms are what you're probably all familiar with; low libido, varying ED, fatigue, anxiety, brain fog, depression, muscle loss and weakness, head pressure at times, dry skin, you name it.

I've always been a disciplined person and been into self improvement. Ironically, that desire to improve is what made me take finasteride. Been lifting weights since I was 16.

Looking forward to recovering and will post updates here from time to time, but I've noticed that the less I think about pfs the better so I likely won't be posting here everyday.

Cheers fellas :)

[Cdsnuts]

Hey guys. Been lurking on the forum for a couple months now but decided to sign up just now.

I've been dealing with pfs since November, took fin for about a week and then quit due to sexual sides.

After crashing the first two months were hell as I hadn't heard of pfs before and had no idea what was happening to me. I found this site thanks to a few people on PH mentioning it. I started the protocol partially in January, and have been fully on board since early February. I did the juice feast and am now doing everything that TMO mentions, except sun exposure (it's hard where I live in the winter months) but will start that too when the sun comes out. I have to mention that at the moment I'm only cycling 16 herbs, not 21.

Anyway, my symptoms are what you're probably all familiar with; low libido, varying ED, fatigue, anxiety, brain fog, depression, muscle loss and weakness, head pressure at times, dry skin, you name it.

I've always been a disciplined person and been into self improvement. Ironically, that desire to improve is what made me take finasteride. Been lifting weights since I was 16.

Looking forward to recovering and will post updates here from time to time, but I've noticed that the less I think about pfs the better so I likely won't be posting here everyday.

Cheers fellas :)

Welcome.

[xxaleksi]

Welcome.

Thanks CD, glad to be here.

Quick question for you or anyone else who can help me out: is it normal to feel completely exhausted after a HIIT session? I'm talking exhausted to the point I feel super spaced out and just have to lay down for up to an hour after doing it. After an hour I'll feel better. Am I overdoing it? I'm doing HIIT twice a week like TMO suggests. Should I dial it down to just once a week? I'm also working out with weights 3-4x a week.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks CD, glad to be here.

Quick question for you or anyone else who can help me out: is it normal to feel completely exhausted after a HIIT session? I'm talking exhausted to the point I feel super spaced out and just have to lay down for up to an hour after doing it. After an hour I'll feel better. Am I overdoing it? I'm doing HIIT twice a week like TMO suggests. Should I dial it down to just once a week? I'm also working out with weights 3-4x a week.

It depends on alot of variables.

You should feel wiped out after doing HIIT if you're doing it properly. But you can over stress the system as well. Do you feel better after the sprints? What is your current fitness level?

For the most part, you're going to feel out of it if it's something you're not used to. Most people aren't used to pushing themselves like this, so it may feel like too much at first.

[xxaleksi]

It depends on alot of variables.

You should feel wiped out after doing HIIT if you're doing it properly. But you can over stress the system as well. Do you feel better after the sprints? What is your current fitness level?

For the most part, you're going to feel out of it if it's something you're not used to. Most people aren't used to pushing themselves like this, so it may feel like too much at first.

Yeah, I never did HIIT before pfs so it might just be that I'm not used to doing it. I always just did normal cardio. Pre-PFS I worked out with weights and did cardio, but my diet was pretty shit so I wasn't in great shape, even though I had a fair amount of muscle. Since crashing I've lost quite a bit of weight so taking it pretty easy at the gym and building it up from there.

After sprinting I'll feel wiped out for up to an hour, but after resting I'll start feeling better, better than before. If that's to be expected then I'll just push through.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah, I never did HIIT before pfs so it might just be that I'm not used to doing it. I always just did normal cardio. Pre-PFS I worked out with weights and did cardio, but my diet was pretty shit so I wasn't in great shape, even though I had a fair amount of muscle. Since crashing I've lost quite a bit of weight so taking it pretty easy at the gym and building it up from there.

After sprinting I'll feel wiped out for up to an hour, but after resting I'll start feeling better, better than before. If that's to be expected then I'll just push through.

If that is the case, then keep doing it.

[xxaleksi]

Nice upswing. More motivation, better stress tolerance and just better mood overall.

Also did sun exposure for the first time today :)

[xxaleksi]

happy to report another upswing. i'm having days where my aggression and drive to succeed in life are pretty much back. also i find myself getting mad at things again which is refreshing after being completely apathetic for so long. also libido and dick numbness fluctuate from bad to decent. though in the grand scheme of things the thing i care the least about is sexual. give me a good mental state and i'll be happy like im recovered lol.

one thing i have a problem with though is OCD-ness about following the protocol. seeing as the protocol is pretty much routine for me now, it doesn't feel like i'm "following a protocol to beat pfs". i just feel like i'm living normal life. so i keep constantly checking the quick start guide on TMO to make sure i'm doing everything everyday. sucks but just gotta trust the process lol.

[Maxout777]

happy to report another upswing. i'm having days where my aggression and drive to succeed in life are pretty much back. also i find myself getting mad at things again which is refreshing after being completely apathetic for so long. also libido and dick numbness fluctuate from bad to decent. though in the grand scheme of things the thing i care the least about is sexual. give me a good mental state and i'll be happy like im recovered lol.

one thing i have a problem with though is OCD-ness about following the protocol. seeing as the protocol is pretty much routine for me now, it doesn't feel like i'm "following a protocol to beat pfs". i just feel like i'm living normal life. so i keep constantly checking the quick start guide on TMO to make sure i'm doing everything everyday. sucks but just gotta trust the process lol.

I struggled with this as well - and it's a good struggle. I attribute this to my recovery being within two years. I only slipped up and drank a few times, was rigorous with no gluten and diet, worked out religiously, sprinted, cold showers, etc..... and again, I credit this to making my journey relatively simple. However, near the end (say, around 90% back) - it got bad. I would literally decide to have a drink and then BOOM massive anxiety and doubt crept into my mind.....no matter if it had ill effect or not. Separating from that is hard, and you don't want to entirely - a lot of that doubt will help you maintain good health the rest of your life.....but you've got to adapt back to normality a little bit or else you're never truly "back".

[RickTheRuler]

I struggled with this as well - and it's a good struggle. I attribute this to my recovery being within two years. I only slipped up and drank a few times, was rigorous with no gluten and diet, worked out religiously, sprinted, cold showers, etc..... and again, I credit this to making my journey relatively simple. However, near the end (say, around 90% back) - it got bad. I would literally decide to have a drink and then BOOM massive anxiety and doubt crept into my mind.....no matter if it had ill effect or not. Separating from that is hard, and you don't want to entirely - a lot of that doubt will help you maintain good health the rest of your life.....but you've got to adapt back to normality a little bit or else you're never truly "back".

I thought you had this for a year only.

Anyway, same here with OCD. It’s more enraging than any pfs symptom at this point..

2-3 years seems to be the window for a lot of things similar to pfs in diseases that have no medical cure that people naturally recover from.. it takes the same amount of time to recover from adrenal fatigue & other things.. of course that’s with proper effort.. but I wonder what’s up with this 2 year timeline for change, seems to be a common thing with the body and it’s processes. interesting




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[Maxout777]

I thought you had this for a year only.

Anyway, same here with OCD. It’s more enraging than any pfs symptom at this point..

2-3 years seems to be the window for a lot of things similar to pfs in diseases that have no medical cure that people naturally recover from.. it takes the same amount of time to recover from adrenal fatigue & other things.. of course that’s with proper effort.. but I wonder what’s up with this 2 year timeline for change, seems to be a common thing with the body and it’s processes. interesting




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My journey was around 16-18 months.

I posted first at Propecia Help in Feb 2016, posted here May of 16, recovery post here was in July or August of 17 if I remember correctly.

Either way, I just use the term within two years to say it doesn’t always take two years.

[xxaleksi]

I struggled with this as well - and it's a good struggle. I attribute this to my recovery being within two years. I only slipped up and drank a few times, was rigorous with no gluten and diet, worked out religiously, sprinted, cold showers, etc..... and again, I credit this to making my journey relatively simple. However, near the end (say, around 90% back) - it got bad. I would literally decide to have a drink and then BOOM massive anxiety and doubt crept into my mind.....no matter if it had ill effect or not. Separating from that is hard, and you don't want to entirely - a lot of that doubt will help you maintain good health the rest of your life.....but you've got to adapt back to normality a little bit or else you're never truly "back".

Thanks for the advice Maxout. Off topic, but what are your opinions on AndroHard by Muscle Gelz? IIRC you used it at one point. I'm considering running it for my first cycle during the summer, as that'll be four months on the protocol. R Andro seems to be out of stock on pretty much every website that ships to Europe, and AH is much cheaper. Just wondering if it'd be safe to run it for my first cycle. Would also be interested in hearing CD's opinion on this.

And @Rick yeah it seems like the people who recover here do so in one and a half to two years. Has allowed me to stop obsessing over the condition and focus on the long term.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the advice Maxout. Off topic, but what are your opinions on AndroHard by Muscle Gelz? IIRC you used it at one point. I'm considering running it for my first cycle during the summer, as that'll be four months on the protocol. R Andro seems to be out of stock on pretty much every website that ships to Europe, and AH is much cheaper. Just wondering if it'd be safe to run it for my first cycle. Would also be interested in hearing CD's opinion on this.

And @Rick yeah it seems like the people who recover here do so in one and a half to two years. Has allowed me to stop obsessing over the condition and focus on the long term.

That's why I always tell people 6 months to 2 years. Just depends on how bad off your are and your ability and will to follow instructions properly. Most people will inadvertently add time to their recovery by tweaking the protocol which for most people is un-necessary.

AH by Muscles gelz is a good product. Go for it.

[xxaleksi]

thanks cd. pretty bad downswing the last couple days or so. been feeling more emotional/depressed and tearing up at times. libido has been better strangely though. just gotta keep grinding. the constant self doubt sucks even though i'm clearly improving. tomorrow's leg day at the gym tho so hopefully i can use all these negative emotions as fuel for my workout lol

[xxaleksi]

Went to propecia help for the first time in months and wow what a bad idea that was for my depression and anxiety. Definitely won't be going there anytime soon.

On a positive note, I absolutely beasted at the gym today, and had some nice libido too. My androhard should be arriving soon, cycle will start June 10th :)

[xxaleksi]

Got my androhard yesterday. Pretty tempted to start it already lol but might as well wait till June 10th to have four months of protocol under my belt.

[xxaleksi]

I know we try not to talk about symptoms often to avoid negativity, but do others with pfs have this almost constant feeling of living inside your own head and fighting minute by minute to stay sane and in the present moment? The breathing and cold showers help but only for a while. Some of the mental symptoms feel completely unique to me, but CD said in an old post that it's normal for pfs guys to feel that way.

[xxaleksi]

Started my cycle yesterday, a bit prematurely, because I ran out of pine pollen so I thought might as well jump on it now.

Currently dosing 200mg a day (2 pumps in the morning, 2 in the afternoon). Will move up to 400mg after a week if I don't have negative reactions.

Also, CD and/or Maxout, when you get time.... the site I bought this AndroHard from recommends to not exceed a cycle of four weeks. Should I do six weeks anyway like we do with R-Andro?

Also, Lion's Mane is cool to take on cycle right? :)

[xxaleksi]

Third day on cycle.

Definitely have that "calm" feeling in my mind that I've seen people talk about. Also more aggressive in the gym and in general. Erection quality and orgasm intensity WAY up. Also have that warm fuzzy feeling in my cock/genital area when getting aroused that I haven't had at all during PFS lol.

On the flip side, I do think I've felt some increased depression and anxiety at times. Could just be me overthinking but who knows. Also a bit more fatigued, don't feel like doing shit.

Will continue on 200mg until the one week mark and if I'm still doing relatively fine, will increase to 400mg. If I get even worse fatigue/mental stuff then will drop back to 200mg :)

[Trump_1776]

Fantastic

[Cdsnuts]

I know we try not to talk about symptoms often to avoid negativity, but do others with pfs have this almost constant feeling of living inside your own head and fighting minute by minute to stay sane and in the present moment? The breathing and cold showers help but only for a while. Some of the mental symptoms feel completely unique to me, but CD said in an old post that it's normal for pfs guys to feel that way.

This is because of depleted neurosteroids, and yes, it's part of the deal. I always likened it to watching my life from a third person perspective. It felt as though I was a little person inside my body controlling things like my body was a machine. It sucks, it's hard for others to understand and believe me, it's not unique to you.

[xxaleksi]

This is because of depleted neurosteroids, and yes, it's part of the deal. I always likened it to watching my life from a third person perspective. It felt as though I was a little person inside my body controlling things like my body was a machine. It sucks, it's hard for others to understand and believe me, it's not unique to you.

Alright thanks CD. I'm loving this cycle so far lol. Did HIIT the other day and I felt like an absolute beast lol. I bumped my dosage up to 400mg of both Androsterone and Epiandro (4 pumps at morning, 4 pumps in the evening). Is this cool to run for six weeks like R-Andro?

[xxaleksi]

Currently in a shitty downswing but might as well post an update.

It's been two weeks on this cycle of Musclegelz AndroHard. While some of the sexual benefits faded after the first few days or so, this cycle has still been pretty awesome. The most noticeable effect has been that feeling of calmness that I've lacked since crashing almost seven months ago. It's easier to stay in the moment, my mind doesn't race as much and I have a feeling of "peace" and serenity. Also, I've been a lot more aggressive and take no shit from anyone lol. I find myself getting mad at the smallest things, which isn't necessarily a good thing but still refreshing compared to the apathy of PFS. I've been drinking lots of coconut water on this cycle to counter the effect of potassium wasting people have reported.

Four weeks left on this stuff (if I end up having no major negative issues). Cdnuts mentioned in an old post how the effects of the cycle are most profoundly felt at the three to four week mark, so I'm excited for how that'll feel. Even more excited for how I'll feel back on the herbs after the cycle is over.

[xxaleksi]

One thing that kinda worries me are the facial changes. The "texture" on my face is different now, it looks more soft and pale, almost more feminine. Similar to my sisters face. Also have sunken eyes but I think Maxout had the same stuff and he recovered.

[xxaleksi]

Ordered some Albizia and Ziziphus. Even though I sleep pretty decently these days, it's not as refreshing as it used to be so decided to try these two herbs out :)

Also, I'm three weeks in on this cycle. 400 mg/day of both Androsterone and Epi Andro. Feeling pretty much the same as last week, so no need to do a real update. Will probably run this until the five week mark and then go back to herb cycling.

[xxaleksi]

Hey guys so I ended up stopping the cycle at the four week mark due to the extreme lethargy I was experiencing. I'll go six weeks next time.

Pros:

-A lot more strength in the gym
-Was very aggressive
-Harder muscles
-Harder erections
-More intense orgasms (though this faded after a while)
-Calmer, less mind racing
-Better mood
-Alpha male euphoric feeling for the first two weeks, though this faded too
-Oily skin
-Massive scalp itch

Cons:

-Anxiety in the first week or so
-Did have a few days where I had worse depression than before
-Sometimes a bit too aggressive, getting mad at the smallest things
-Fatigue and lethargy


It is now my sixth day of PCT. Felt a bit "off" for the first two days off, but at the end of the third day I felt like a "switch" flipped, and I felt different. Can't say if it feels good or bad, maybe a bit more like I used to feel before I took fin? Not sure, it's been so long that I somewhat forgot what 100% feels like. Is this the baseline increase people report?

Anyway, I definitely recommend this AndroHard gel for anyone with PFS willing to experiment. Great stuff.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey guys so I ended up stopping the cycle at the four week mark due to the extreme lethargy I was experiencing. I'll go six weeks next time.

Pros:

-A lot more strength in the gym
-Was very aggressive
-Harder muscles
-Harder erections
-More intense orgasms (though this faded after a while)
-Calmer, less mind racing
-Better mood
-Alpha male euphoric feeling for the first two weeks, though this faded too
-Oily skin
-Massive scalp itch

Cons:

-Anxiety in the first week or so
-Did have a few days where I had worse depression than before
-Sometimes a bit too aggressive, getting mad at the smallest things
-Fatigue and lethargy


It is now my sixth day of PCT. Felt a bit "off" for the first two days off, but at the end of the third day I felt like a "switch" flipped, and I felt different. Can't say if it feels good or bad, maybe a bit more like I used to feel before I took fin? Not sure, it's been so long that I somewhat forgot what 100% feels like. Is this the baseline increase people report?

Anyway, I definitely recommend this AndroHard gel for anyone with PFS willing to experiment. Great stuff.

Like all other parts of the protocol, no experimentation is needed. It's recommended for a reason my man.

EVERYTHING in this protocol has been vetted thoroughly by yours truly and has been used with great success by all who have recovered for the most part.

The biggest thing for the newbies is trusting with blind faith.....a difficult thing to do. The ones that do it, are the ones that recover.

Jump in 100%, set it and forget it.

Keep moving forward.

[xxaleksi]

Like all other parts of the protocol, no experimentation is needed. It's recommended for a reason my man.

EVERYTHING in this protocol has been vetted thoroughly by yours truly and has been used with great success by all who have recovered for the most part.

The biggest thing for the newbies is trusting with blind faith.....a difficult thing to do. The ones that do it, are the ones that recover.

Jump in 100%, set it and forget it.

Keep moving forward.

Yeah I could've worded that better - I didn't mean "experimenting" as in taking desperate shots in the dark trying to recover. I meant experimenting as in trying the androhard gel as opposed to the r andro, lol.

Also, I'm happy to report that my baseline has definitely increased since stopping the cycle. Can't wait for the next one :)

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I could've worded that better - I didn't mean "experimenting" as in taking desperate shots in the dark trying to recover. I meant experimenting as in trying the androhard gel as opposed to the r andro, lol.

Also, I'm happy to report that my baseline has definitely increased since stopping the cycle. Can't wait for the next one :)

As is the case.

Just keep moving forward and this will keep happening over and over again.

Keep grinding.

[alphacfi]

Hey guys so I ended up stopping the cycle at the four week mark due to the extreme lethargy I was experiencing. I'll go six weeks next time.

Pros:

-A lot more strength in the gym
-Was very aggressive
-Harder muscles
-Harder erections
-More intense orgasms (though this faded after a while)
-Calmer, less mind racing
-Better mood
-Alpha male euphoric feeling for the first two weeks, though this faded too
-Oily skin
-Massive scalp itch

Cons:

-Anxiety in the first week or so
-Did have a few days where I had worse depression than before
-Sometimes a bit too aggressive, getting mad at the smallest things
-Fatigue and lethargy


It is now my sixth day of PCT. Felt a bit "off" for the first two days off, but at the end of the third day I felt like a "switch" flipped, and I felt different. Can't say if it feels good or bad, maybe a bit more like I used to feel before I took fin? Not sure, it's been so long that I somewhat forgot what 100% feels like. Is this the baseline increase people report?

Anyway, I definitely recommend this AndroHard gel for anyone with PFS willing to experiment. Great stuff.

Good to hear man I just started the AndroHard gel today. Did you take potassium chloride with it everyday or did you wait until after your cycle to start taking it?

[xxaleksi]

Good to hear man I just started the AndroHard gel today. Did you take potassium chloride with it everyday or did you wait until after your cycle to start taking it?

I just drank coconut water a lot to prevent the potassium wasting.

Good luck on the cycle bro.

[alphacfi]

Cool thanks man.

[Cdsnuts]

I just drank coconut water a lot to prevent the potassium wasting.

Good luck on the cycle bro.

I prefer that method over the supplementing because it serves many more purposes. Plus it's super hydrating.

- - - Updated - - -


Cool thanks man.

Yes, keep us posted on your cycle.

[alphacfi]

I prefer that method over the supplementing because it serves many more purposes. Plus it's super hydrating.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, keep us posted on your cycle.

Will do.

[xxaleksi]

I've been sick real bad with a fever, sore throat, chills, no appetite, you name it for the last four days. Was pretty much bedridden the first two days but now a lot better. Gotta take like a week off from exercising it seems :(

[Cdsnuts]

I've been sick real bad with a fever, sore throat, chills, no appetite, you name it for the last four days. Was pretty much bedridden the first two days but now a lot better. Gotta take like a week off from exercising it seems :(

Take the time and rest. Fast as well if you can. That's the best thing to do when you're sick. There is a reason your body has no appetite. Take advantage of the time and use it to cleanse some more. It's actually a good sign that your sick, it means you're on the way to healing.

[xxaleksi]

Take the time and rest. Fast as well if you can. That's the best thing to do when you're sick. There is a reason your body has no appetite. Take advantage of the time and use it to cleanse some more. It's actually a good sign that your sick, it means you're on the way to healing.

Yeah I did indeed end up fasting for a few days. I'm pretty much over it now, thanks CD.

Also, would it be wise to stack 4 Andro with transdermal Androhard for my second cycle? Or just stick to what works? I'm tempted to run the 4 Andro at some point but wondering if second cycle would be too soon :P

[xxaleksi]

I'm doing pretty well. It's been almost six months on the protocol, and my main issues that remain are depression and the sexual stuff. Considering I had all of the pfs symptoms when I crashed, along with some that I'd never heard of anyone else having with pfs, I'm extremely grateful for how much I've improved. Can't thank the guys here enough, mainly CDnuts and Maxout.

Also still have some brain fog but it's pretty mild. And that feeling of constantly living in my own thoughts but my prohormone run made it better so hopeful it'll improve even more on my next run :)

I think these kind of posts are important for the lurking newcomers who just crashed and are scared to death.

[Cdsnuts]

I'm doing pretty well. It's been almost six months on the protocol, and my main issues that remain are depression and the sexual stuff. Considering I had all of the pfs symptoms when I crashed, along with some that I'd never heard of anyone else having with pfs, I'm extremely grateful for how much I've improved. Can't thank the guys here enough, mainly CDnuts and Maxout.

Also still have some brain fog but it's pretty mild. And that feeling of constantly living in my own thoughts but my prohormone run made it better so hopeful it'll improve even more on my next run :)

I think these kind of posts are important for the lurking newcomers who just crashed and are scared to death.

Breath work and meditation are best at calming those issues.

[Maxout777]

Keep on keeping on, my man.

[xxaleksi]

Alright so yesterday I began my second cycle. 400mg/day for 6-8 weeks. Will carb backload every night (even on non training days) and drink a lot of coconut water to ensure that I have enough potassium :)

[xxaleksi]

Things are going pretty well with this cycle. Had some increased anxiety for the first few days like last time but nothing major. Most noticeably, my brain fog has lifted almost completely the last two days. I had already forgotten that this is how I'm actually supposed to feel like. Feels phenomenal. While I'm sure the fog might come back again during a downswing, this is the first time it has completely lifted in the nine or so months of dealing with PFS.

Also have massive scalp itch at times (feels like my scalp is on fire), increased pumps and more strength in the gym. No aggression or notable sexual benefits yet.

[xxaleksi]

Something I've been wondering for a while now:

What's a good time to start backloading? I usually start eating carbs at around 5.30 PM. Is that fine or should I wait until later in the night?

My OCDness with recovery is crazy, even the thought that I could be eating carbs "too early" gives me anxiety

[DefRecover]

I think CDs recommendation is that you backload only in the evening - ie after 7 / your dinner meal

[xxaleksi]

I think CDs recommendation is that you backload only in the evening - ie after 7 / your dinner meal

Dang, I swear I've seen him say either on here or on PH that starting at 5 or 6 pm would be fine. I'll probably start backloading a bit later in the evening then. Would love to hear his opinion though.

[Maxout777]

I started no later than 6pm each day that I backloaded.

[xxaleksi]

Thanks Maxout.

[DKnighten]

I know we try not to talk about symptoms often to avoid negativity, but do others with pfs have this almost constant feeling of living inside your own head and fighting minute by minute to stay sane and in the present moment? The breathing and cold showers help but only for a while. Some of the mental symptoms feel completely unique to me, but CD said in an old post that it's normal for pfs guys to feel that way.

I struggle with this a lot, among many things.

[Bankai9000]

Cortisol drops the longer you're awake. And we don't want to eat when cortisol is high. So the later we eat and spike our insulin. the lower our cortisol will be, the better.
I'd make it dependent on when you go to bed with the carb backloading. Would try to not eat like 4h before going to bed(brainhealth reasons).

Short and simple, high cortisol(high lipolysis) = high fatburning , so long food not available, high concentration of your fat gets burned
High cortisol + high insulin = your food you take in gets used suddenly into high fatstorage
That's the really short version, there's tons of other things going on with oxidative stress, fixing and balancing cortisol levels and other weird shiet when eating high carb during specific times.

The mainfocus should be probably to not eat pre 1pm, from then on cortisol is already significantly lower compared to all the hours earlier. But keeps steadily dropping till like 3am.

[xxaleksi]

Everything's still going well. My zest for life is pretty much back in full force, and it feels great after not having that for almost a year. Been feeling almost euphoric the last few days, my brain's probably been starved of some chemicals for ages that it is now receiving again. Hopefully this is a new baseline.

Also, I tried to help out a guy on PH by giving him a link to my thread here to see the progress I'm making, and a moderator ended up editing my post to remove the link I gave. Also, another user was PMing me threatening to DDoS this site because according to him, everyone here, including myself are just alternate accounts of CDnuts, trying to scam people. The bitterness on that site is just insane. I wish there was a way to help out the new guys there who believe all that bullshit. Oh well, the recovery section here and people's improvements speak for themselves.


I struggle with this a lot, among many things.

I noticed a big improvement in that symptom after my first cycle. Just keep on the protocol man :)

[Bankai9000]

Everything's still going well. My zest for life is pretty much back in full force, and it feels great after not having that for almost a year. Been feeling almost euphoric the last few days, my brain's probably been starved of some chemicals for ages that it is now receiving again. Hopefully this is a new baseline.

Also, I tried to help out a guy on PH by giving him a link to my thread here to see the progress I'm making, and a moderator ended up editing my post to remove the link I gave. Also, another user was PMing me threatening to DDoS this site because according to him, everyone here, including myself are just alternate accounts of CDnuts, trying to scam people. The bitterness on that site is just insane. I wish there was a way to help out the new guys there who believe all that bullshit. Oh well, the recovery section here and people's improvements speak for themselves.



I noticed a big improvement in that symptom after my first cycle. Just keep on the protocol man :)

zest for life is baack lets goooooooo! :D

And I feel the same, I sometimes just checkin on the new ppl posting on pph and a bit to giggle about the attitude, but it shots up fast my anxiety about this XD. And it's just sad this extreme discouragement new people get. Every thread with at least one guy just being like "it probably will get worse if u do ANYTHING" and "I got worse for a decade", 'there's no hopee m8". Fills me with hate(and laughter when I'm not on that side xd), but I can't write there since I was banned for "3 months", but now I can't even login on my old acc anymore. Fuk that whole place, I spread my word on reddit and some ppl keep adding me from there.
As greek said last time to a guy asking for swole, sth along the line of "idk cd's page, solve sth" ahaha, yee ofc xd.

[Cdsnuts]

Dang, I swear I've seen him say either on here or on PH that starting at 5 or 6 pm would be fine. I'll probably start backloading a bit later in the evening then. Would love to hear his opinion though.

You are correct. Anytime after 5ish or so.

[xxaleksi]

Latest improvement: low stress tolerance seems to FINALLY be gone. Fucking hated that symptom.

[Turnover25]

Latest improvement: low stress tolerance seems to FINALLY be gone. Fucking hated that symptom.

Glad to hear that man. This is one of my worst symptoms.

[xxaleksi]

Glad to hear that man. This is one of my worst symptoms.

Yeah it was one of my worst symptoms too. It seems like this second cycle made it go away for good.

[xxaleksi]

I'm at the point now where life is pretty much livable. Ten months post crash, seven months on protocol. I'm genuinely enjoying life for the first time in what feels like forever. Seven months ago I could barely leave the house due to massive anxiety and brain fog. Hopefully that inspires some of the newcomers to just stay on the path.

However, I still have that anxiousness about possibly making myself worse. I have to remind myself quite often that as long as I keep on keeping on with the protocol, I'll continue to improve, not worsen. And even though I know this to be true from experience, I STILL get these feelings. It's like my mind's playing tricks on me.

I can see myself being at least 90% recovered after two more cycles at the most, and it's a great feeling.

[Turnover25]

I'm at the point now where life is pretty much livable. Ten months post crash, seven months on protocol. I'm genuinely enjoying life for the first time in what feels like forever. Seven months ago I could barely leave the house due to massive anxiety and brain fog. Hopefully that inspires some of the newcomers to just stay on the path.

However, I still have that anxiousness about possibly making myself worse. I have to remind myself quite often that as long as I keep on keeping on with the protocol, I'll continue to improve, not worsen. And even though I know this to be true from experience, I STILL get these feelings. It's like my mind's playing tricks on me.

I can see myself being at least 90% recovered after two more cycles at the most, and it's a great feeling.


I’m on day 5 of my water fast and these fears have crossed my mind too. I’m sure they will keep coming but this post definitely gives me hope, especially because I only have mental sides which are anxiety and massive brain fog. Keep on it bro!

[xxaleksi]

I’m on day 5 of my water fast and these fears have crossed my mind too. I’m sure they will keep coming but this post definitely gives me hope, especially because I only have mental sides which are anxiety and massive brain fog. Keep on it bro!

Nice bro. Yeah I still have those thoughts even though I keep getting better month by month, it's crazy. It seems like our minds really are working against us here.

[Turnover25]

Nice bro. Yeah I still have those thoughts even though I keep getting better month by month, it's crazy. It seems like our minds really are working against us here.

I’m new here but I believe part of it is physical issues and a big part is the anxiety coming from all the despair we’ve witnessed on other sites. But I’ve made some improvements already without being on a protocol and not being the most healthy, I’m excited to see how I can improve further.

[slader1]

So glad to hear you're improving! I'm sorry but I wasn't able to find the post where you explained what you were cycling? Some sort of prohormone? I looked at cdnut's website (TMO) and could not find any protocol related to a pro-hormone.

I am interested because I have made significant improvement myself since taking the drug back in 2011. When I first started, there was no known protocols aside from one guy who recovered on RAW/paleo with HIT-style weightlifting. I followed that protocol for sometime and made decent progress. But these days I still feel something is lacking, I don't have as much energy as my peers and counterparts, and I often suffer from anxiety. I also have some neuropathic pain and joint pain.

Anything you could recommend would be of value. Your quick recovery is very heartening.

[xxaleksi]

So glad to hear you're improving! I'm sorry but I wasn't able to find the post where you explained what you were cycling? Some sort of prohormone? I looked at cdnut's website (TMO) and could not find any protocol related to a pro-hormone.

I am interested because I have made significant improvement myself since taking the drug back in 2011. When I first started, there was no known protocols aside from one guy who recovered on RAW/paleo with HIT-style weightlifting. I followed that protocol for sometime and made decent progress. But these days I still feel something is lacking, I don't have as much energy as my peers and counterparts, and I often suffer from anxiety. I also have some neuropathic pain and joint pain.

Anything you could recommend would be of value. Your quick recovery is very heartening.

It's a DHT prohormone called Androhard by Musclegelz. All the information about prohormones is in a sticky post on this forum.

Best advice I can give you is to just make the protocol your way of life and keep following it. It's a double edged sword though because since the protocol is just how I live my life, I don't even feel like I'm "doing" anything to recover. It causes me to second guess everything.

[slader1]

It's a DHT prohormone called Androhard by Musclegelz. All the information about prohormones is in a sticky post on this forum.

Best advice I can give you is to just make the protocol your way of life and keep following it. It's a double edged sword though because since the protocol is just how I live my life, I don't even feel like I'm "doing" anything to recover. It causes me to second guess everything.

Thanks for the reply! Hmm I can't seem to find the sticky, I'll keep looking though.

Has this helped you with anxiety/panic attacks? These are the only symptoms that are really still stuck with me.

Upon searching for the product, the active in it appears to be androsterone. I have tried idealab's androsterone before, and I remember it working quite well for the first few days. It gave me a big masculine energy as well as better libido. The problem I had with it was that eventually it made me feel tired and emotionless, and my joints hurt as well. I think that was because it was inhibiting estrogen too much.

Anyways, maybe this version would be better.

[Maxout777]

Thanks for the reply! Hmm I can't seem to find the sticky, I'll keep looking though.

Has this helped you with anxiety/panic attacks? These are the only symptoms that are really still stuck with me.

Upon searching for the product, the active in it appears to be androsterone. I have tried idealab's androsterone before, and I remember it working quite well for the first few days. It gave me a big masculine energy as well as better libido. The problem I had with it was that eventually it made me feel tired and emotionless, and my joints hurt as well. I think that was because it was inhibiting estrogen too much.

Anyways, maybe this version would be better.


You’re going to experience that with the estrogen. Fortunately, inhibiting it in this manner will help make those receptors more sensitive to estrogen when you come off (hence forcing the “snap back” as called on other forums.)

[slader1]

Oh I see, interesting!

This brings up a question. If keeping your estrogen low causes your estrogen receptors to be more sensitive, why doesn't the same thing occur with the androsterone gel? Wouldn't take an androgenic substance make the androgen receptors less sensitive, not more?

This is why I have been thinking of trying the licorice root approach. It temporarily inhibits 5ar and makes you feel tired and bad for a time. If taken just once a week or so, your body responds to it by making 5ar more effective. I have seen a couple full recoveries with this approach. A similar one is to eat brown rice, which likewise has a slight 5ar inhibiting effect, once every few days to build up the 5ar throughout the system. After months of doing this it is supposed to have a drastic effect.

I was confused by this MuscleGelz approach because I thought it might reduce androgen sensitivity similar to how taking testosterone-type steroids can screw with guy's libido if they stay on it too long.

[xxaleksi]

Thanks for the reply! Hmm I can't seem to find the sticky, I'll keep looking though.

Has this helped you with anxiety/panic attacks? These are the only symptoms that are really still stuck with me.

Upon searching for the product, the active in it appears to be androsterone. I have tried idealab's androsterone before, and I remember it working quite well for the first few days. It gave me a big masculine energy as well as better libido. The problem I had with it was that eventually it made me feel tired and emotionless, and my joints hurt as well. I think that was because it was inhibiting estrogen too much.

Anyways, maybe this version would be better.

I only had panic attacks in the first few months of PFS, never after that. My first cycle really helped with the anxiety tough, so I'd definitely give it a shot.

[slader1]

I only had panic attacks in the first few months of PFS, never after that. My first cycle really helped with the anxiety tough, so I'd definitely give it a shot.

Alright then I think I will give it a shot. I ordered a bottle of Androhard. I have been taking a lot of thyroid hormone and caffeine which I am currently weening off of. Anxiety is rough, though.

Anything else I should know before I start? Did the juice cleanse help much?

[xxaleksi]

I'm doing really well. I haven't been updating here as much since I'm just back to living my life now and it's easier to forget about PFS.

Considering doing AndroHard + 4 Andro for my next cycle. Kinda worried about the suppression though since Jacknap said he got suppressed for like three weeks which I'd rather not mess with. We will see.

[xxaleksi]

So I'm pretty much back to normal mentally, at least during upswings. However, I notice that when I'm with my friends or family, I feel like I can't relate to them like I used to pre-PFS, like I'm not all "there" with them. I can act like my old self around them, but I don't FEEL like my old self. It's like I'm in my own bubble when around them. Really strange feeling. Yet, when I'm alone or with my girlfriend (who I met during PFS), I often feel completely normal mentally. Has anyone else had this?

I'm at the point now where if I didn't improve further, I'd be grateful to live like this for the rest of my life. This specific symptom is just a mindfuck to me.

[Yus]

Could be psychological no? I think considering the fact that you've gone through such a bizarre experience, there'll be something lingering, or something off. I could imagine, especially if you haven't disclosed or spoken to them about what you've been through, that there'll always be some sense of discomfort, I'm 5 months post, and i kind of feel similar to you, although i found that speaking to my brother/family has somewhat normalized my presence around them, and this whole situation

[slader1]

So I'm pretty much back to normal mentally, at least during upswings. However, I notice that when I'm with my friends or family, I feel like I can't relate to them like I used to pre-PFS, like I'm not all "there" with them. I can act like my old self around them, but I don't FEEL like my old self. It's like I'm in my own bubble when around them. Really strange feeling. Yet, when I'm alone or with my girlfriend (who I met during PFS), I often feel completely normal mentally. Has anyone else had this?

I'm at the point now where if I didn't improve further, I'd be grateful to live like this for the rest of my life. This specific symptom is just a mindfuck to me.

Sorry, how many cycles of androhard have you done now? Is it 1 or 2?

I remember feeling like that around the ol' family, sometimes, before pfs. I think it's far easier to feel good around someone exciting, new, or stimulating, like a girlfriend. Family can feel a bit commonplace or humdrum, and since you're not quite at 100% yet, that disconnect is being emphasized.

[xxaleksi]

Sorry, how many cycles of androhard have you done now? Is it 1 or 2?

I remember feeling like that around the ol' family, sometimes, before pfs. I think it's far easier to feel good around someone exciting, new, or stimulating, like a girlfriend. Family can feel a bit commonplace or humdrum, and since you're not quite at 100% yet, that disconnect is being emphasized.

I've done two cycles. Considering running AH/4-Andro in a couple months but haven't decided yet whether I should run the 4 andro or not.

And yeah, who knows what causes that disconnect feeling but it'll no doubt go away once I'm completely healed.

[slader1]

I've done two cycles. Considering running AH/4-Andro in a couple months but haven't decided yet whether I should run the 4 andro or not.

And yeah, who knows what causes that disconnect feeling but it'll no doubt go away once I'm completely healed.

I've heard some guys having a lot of success with 4-andro, and others not so much.

Personally I'm 1 week off of my first andro cycle and not feeling well at all! My mind feels super weird, thinking is difficult and everything around me feels bad. I do have less anxiety but damn, this is rough. Can't say if it's better or worse than before. Hopefully I just have to give it some more time.

[Alchemy]

I've heard some guys having a lot of success with 4-andro, and others not so much.

Personally I'm 1 week off of my first andro cycle and not feeling well at all! My mind feels super weird, thinking is difficult and everything around me feels bad. I do have less anxiety but damn, this is rough. Can't say if it's better or worse than before. Hopefully I just have to give it some more time.

Did you give your body enough time while cycling on the herbs before taking the Andro?

And did you do a cleanse before starting the regime?

If you're body/immune system is still very weak and out of balance then jumping into taking a powerful prohormone will make you feel worse.

[slader1]

Did you give your body enough time while cycling on the herbs before taking the Andro?

And did you do a cleanse before starting the regime?

If you're body/immune system is still very weak and out of balance then jumping into taking a powerful prohormone will make you feel worse.

Physically I felt pretty damn good on it. Way more strength and energy in the gym and I wasn't getting as tired at work. Mentally I felt like I was losing my mind at times. Couldn't concentrate, irritable, and dizzy. I have very sensitive biochemistry and usually get worst case reactions to things.

I did do a two week juice cleanse before the Andro. I have been strict about dieting for years but I have stayed away from the herbs because I am worried I might have a bad reaction to one of them. For isntance when I tried tribulus years back, I had an awful reaction that nearly sent me to the E.R., I was up all night wheezing. I think I may be allergic...

[xxaleksi]

Physically I felt pretty damn good on it. Way more strength and energy in the gym and I wasn't getting as tired at work. Mentally I felt like I was losing my mind at times. Couldn't concentrate, irritable, and dizzy. I have very sensitive biochemistry and usually get worst case reactions to things.

I did do a two week juice cleanse before the Andro. I have been strict about dieting for years but I have stayed away from the herbs because I am worried I might have a bad reaction to one of them. For isntance when I tried tribulus years back, I had an awful reaction that nearly sent me to the E.R., I was up all night wheezing. I think I may be allergic...

Yeah CD recommends herb cycling for at least three months before trying prohormones. Maybe that's why you didn't respond well to them. I'm not experienced enough with the protocol here to give you advice, so I'd wait for what CD has to say.

[Alchemy]

Physically I felt pretty damn good on it. Way more strength and energy in the gym and I wasn't getting as tired at work. Mentally I felt like I was losing my mind at times. Couldn't concentrate, irritable, and dizzy. I have very sensitive biochemistry and usually get worst case reactions to things.

I did do a two week juice cleanse before the Andro. I have been strict about dieting for years but I have stayed away from the herbs because I am worried I might have a bad reaction to one of them. For isntance when I tried tribulus years back, I had an awful reaction that nearly sent me to the E.R., I was up all night wheezing. I think I may be allergic...

That's good your diet has been clean, you should bounce back in no time.

It might not be the actual herbs you're allergic too, but sometimes the Inactive ingredients in the pills as well as the capsules in of themselves. Some companies use capsules which have shit like sulphites, rice powder(gluten) and other needless shit.

I'm sure if you bought high quality pure organic herbs,you wouldn't have a reaction. Understandably if you're hestitant to use tribulus again, just swap it for another herb on the list but it's definitely recommended to cycle the herbs for a good time as they have a holistic balancing effect on the numerous hormonal and endocrine systems in the body.

I already feel roided up and only been cycling on them for two months now. After the third month, now I've finally got 2 weeks worth of different herbs to cycle, I will go on the Andro

Anyway get on those herbs once you feel more stable and look out for any allergens in the capsules if you're ordering outside of Lost Empire Herbs.

Or just take the powder out of the capsules, which I what I do, as don't want to be swelling plastic gel caps

[slader1]

That's good your diet has been clean, you should bounce back in no time.

It might not be the actual herbs you're allergic too, but sometimes the Inactive ingredients in the pills as well as the capsules in of themselves. Some companies use capsules which have shit like sulphites, rice powder(gluten) and other needless shit.

I'm sure if you bought high quality pure organic herbs,you wouldn't have a reaction. Understandably if you're hestitant to use tribulus again, just swap it for another herb on the list but it's definitely recommended to cycle the herbs for a good time as they have a holistic balancing effect on the numerous hormonal and endocrine systems in the body.

I already feel roided up and only been cycling on them for two months now. After the third month, now I've finally got 2 weeks worth of different herbs to cycle, I will go on the Andro

Anyway get on those herbs once you feel more stable and look out for any allergens in the capsules if you're ordering outside of Lost Empire Herbs.

Or just take the powder out of the capsules, which I what I do, as don't want to be swelling plastic gel caps

Thanks for the advice. I am not clear on what you mean by once you have 2 weeks worth of different herbs to cycle, you will start Andro? Do you mean that once you only have 2 weeks worth left of herbs?

I am going to start orderring the herbs with what I can afford financially. All 21 would cost a pretty penny, but I will hoepfully be there by the end of this year.

[Alchemy]

Thanks for the advice. I am not clear on what you mean by once you have 2 weeks worth of different herbs to cycle, you will start Andro? Do you mean that once you only have 2 weeks worth left of herbs?

I am going to start orderring the herbs with what I can afford financially. All 21 would cost a pretty penny, but I will hoepfully be there by the end of this year.

lol I should have been more clear. I just meant that now I have been cycling 2 weeks worth of different herbs my body feels like it is primed to go on a cycle.

If finances are tight, just start off with 7 herbs then slowly build up from there by buying a new herb every week.

[xxaleksi]

Ran out of pine pollen powder recently so been taking the tincture daily while waiting for my new order from LEH.

Is there an amount of the tincture that's "too much" to take? I've been taking up to four dropperfuls per day.

[slader1]

Ran out of pine pollen powder recently so been taking the tincture daily while waiting for my new order from LEH.

Is there an amount of the tincture that's "too much" to take? I've been taking up to four dropperfuls per day.

Wait so it is the capsules you take daily, and the tincture you take once every 21 days as per the rotation?

I bought the tincture but then I noticed it says to cycle it every 4-5 days with a 2 day break. Apparently it contains a small amount of testosterone and androsterone.

[xxaleksi]

Wait so it is the capsules you take daily, and the tincture you take once every 21 days as per the rotation?

I bought the tincture but then I noticed it says to cycle it every 4-5 days with a 2 day break. Apparently it contains a small amount of testosterone and androsterone.

I just take the powder daily. Haven't tried the capsules.

Lost Empire recommends you cycle the tincture but CD said in an old post it's fine when taken daily. So, I normally cycle it, but am currently taking it daily as I wait for more powder to arrive.

[slader1]

I just take the powder daily. Haven't tried the capsules.

Lost Empire recommends you cycle the tincture but CD said in an old post it's fine when taken daily. So, I normally cycle it, but am currently taking it daily as I wait for more powder to arrive.

Oh I didn't realize they sold it in powder form. So then you take the powder daily, but you also use the tincture as part of your 21 day herb rotation?

- - - Updated - - -


lol I should have been more clear. I just meant that now I have been cycling 2 weeks worth of different herbs my body feels like it is primed to go on a cycle.

If finances are tight, just start off with 7 herbs then slowly build up from there by buying a new herb every week.

I see, so you still just have 14 different herbs, not 21? How is your brain fog? Mine is still nasty.

[Alchemy]

I see, so you still just have 14 different herbs, not 21? How is your brain fog? Mine is still nasty.


Yeah I have around 14 diff herbs.

Brain fog has pretty much gone. Just struggling with mood and energy levels, which fluctuate. One day I feel super motivated with laser like clarity and bouncing with energy, the next feel sluggish and depressed.

[xxaleksi]

Oh I didn't realize they sold it in powder form. So then you take the powder daily, but you also use the tincture as part of your 21 day herb rotation?
Yes, exactly.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I have around 14 diff herbs.

Brain fog has pretty much gone. Just struggling with mood and energy levels, which fluctuate. One day I feel super motivated with laser like clarity and bouncing with energy, the next feel sluggish and depressed.

Swings like this are a sure sign that you're having an effect. As long as you can ride it out you'll be better for it afterwords.

[xxaleksi]

Hey fellas, I don't think I've ever done a post showing the routine I'm doing in detail. So I thought might as well do it. I've been on the protocol since February 2019.

Juice Feast:

Did seven days, after which I began the protocol.

Herbs:

Ant Extract
Ashwagandha Tincture
Schisandra
Eleuthero
Horny Goat Weed
He Shou Wu
Royal Jelly
Tongkat Ali
Shilajit Resin
Cistanche
Goji Berry
Mucuna
Cordyceps
Pine Pollen Tincture
Muira Puama
Butea Superba
Catuaba Bark
Suma Root

I also take two tablespoons of pine pollen powder daily. Currently not taking it though as I ran out a while ago and have been waiting for more to arrive. Therefore I'm currently taking the tincture daily. I also used to have Rhodiola on here too, but I ran out back in September. Lost Empire doesn't seem to have Rhodiola anymore, so if anyone knows a good quality brand that ships to Europe feel free to let me know.

Supplements:

Chlorella
Spirulina
Vitamin D 10,000 iu
Magnesium

I take all of these at night.

Diet:

Paleo style diet with carb backloading after workouts.

Meats and fish: Beef, pork, bacon, lamb, chicken, turkey, tuna, salmon
Fruits: Apples, pears, bananas, strawberries, raspberries
Vegetables: Spinach, broccoli, kale
Spices: Sea salt, black pepper, oregano
Drinks: Water, coconut water

I also eat plenty of eggs during the day.

Carb backloading on workout days: White rice, gluten free pasta

Exercise:

Four gym days a week.

Day 1: Back
Day 2: Arms
Day 3: Chest/Shoulders
Day 4: Legs/Abs

HIIT on Wednesdays/Sundays.

Other Lifestyle:

Cold showers every morning and night
Skin brushing in the shower
Breathing exercises morning and night
Limiting masturbation
Avoiding xenoestrogens
No alcohol
No caffeine
Sun exposure 30 minutes per day whenever possible

Prohormones:

I've done two cycles of Andro Hard by Muscle Gelz.

Cycle #1 was four weeks at 400mg/day
Cycle #2 was five weeks at 400mg/day.

All of this stuff is just a part of my life these days, so it feels like I'm just living my life and not "doing a protocol". Just gotta wait to get back to 100%. By the way, if anyone notices something I might be doing wrong, please feel free to tell me. Thanks!

[xxaleksi]

Still on the PP tincture daily, my pine pollen powder has been taking a long time to arrive in the mail. It usually takes a few weeks for the order to arrive (I live in Europe) but it's taking even longer now. Oh well should've just ordered it earlier.

Hope I'm not sabotaging myself by not taking the powder for a couple weeks. Although the tincture is the same stuff pretty much, my PFS brain makes me stress and obsess if I'm not doing EVERYTHING correctly.

[Bankai9000]

Great post man, love that you took the time to write it all down. Was nothing worse for me in the beginning than to start reading through all these stories just to gain only a little bit out of it here and there, or ending up clueless who did what to heal. Heading to the next, and the next and the next, just gathering small bits^^

[Cdsnuts]

Great post man, love that you took the time to write it all down. Was nothing worse for me in the beginning than to start reading through all these stories just to gain only a little bit out of it here and there, or ending up clueless who did what to heal. Heading to the next, and the next and the next, just gathering small bits^^

I'll make it easy for you.....simply follow what is written and there is no "gathering" that you have to do....at all. There is no reason you should be clueless as to "who did what to heal" because what they did is ALL there on the website. You realize he just summarized the TMO regimen for the most part, right?

And one of the very last pages of the website which is right here Quick Start Guide | Total Male Optimization (https://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/putting-it-altogether/the-regimen/) does the same thing.

[covfefe42]

I agree it's like you're not even following a protocol and just living your life once everything becomes habit. I'm surprised that there are people stuck w this condition for years when it's not even that hard to make the lifestyle adjustments needed to get out.

How are you feeling in terms of progress xxaleksi?

[xxaleksi]

I agree it's like you're not even following a protocol and just living your life once everything becomes habit. I'm surprised that there are people stuck w this condition for years when it's not even that hard to make the lifestyle adjustments needed to get out.

How are you feeling in terms of progress xxaleksi?

I agree man. It's a double edged sword though. Because this protocol is just my "normal" life now, I don't actually feel like I'm "doing" anything to recover from pfs, therefore making me feel like I should be doing more. Rick said this too.

As for progress, I'm living a normal life at this point. I look forward to normal, everyday things like spending time with friends, going to work, traveling again. I don't think about PFS that much anymore, because it doesn't really affect my life very much at this point. Life is livable. Not great, but I know it's going to be in the future. My remaining symptoms are fluctuating libido, flaccid penis curvature and penile sensitivity. Along with some mild brain fog. Considering I could barely leave the house back in February when I first started, I'd say that's pretty good progress. If I had to live the rest of my life like this, I'd be grateful for how much I've improved.

Despite being a functioning human being again, I can "feel" I'm not 100% my old self yet. Just gotta keep going.

[Bankai9000]

I'll make it easy for you.....simply follow what is written and there is no "gathering" that you have to do....at all. There is no reason you should be clueless as to "who did what to heal" because what they did is ALL there on the website. You realize he just summarized the TMO regimen for the most part, right?

And one of the very last pages of the website which is right here Quick Start Guide | Total Male Optimization (https://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/putting-it-altogether/the-regimen/) does the same thing.

CD maan of course I know that now, but back then, especially with my brain being totally fried and in the gutter it wasn't that easy to just accept what is beneficial and what not(I still kept doing the FULL TMO-protocol right from the start).
I've complimented your stuff here numerous times, it's great work. When I got pfs I just wanted to find people saying this helped or that helped, or I'm doing this and that. Like a kid who needs to get shit repeated again and again till he gets it stuck into his head. I was a scared kiddo, now I'm back to feeling like a responsible grown-up man.

[Cdsnuts]

I agree man. It's a double edged sword though. Because this protocol is just my "normal" life now, I don't actually feel like I'm "doing" anything to recover from pfs, therefore making me feel like I should be doing more. Rick said this too.

As for progress, I'm living a normal life at this point. I look forward to normal, everyday things like spending time with friends, going to work, traveling again. I don't think about PFS that much anymore, because it doesn't really affect my life very much at this point. Life is livable. Not great, but I know it's going to be in the future. My remaining symptoms are fluctuating libido, flaccid penis curvature and penile sensitivity. Along with some mild brain fog. Considering I could barely leave the house back in February when I first started, I'd say that's pretty good progress. If I had to live the rest of my life like this, I'd be grateful for how much I've improved.

Despite being a functioning human being again, I can "feel" I'm not 100% my old self yet. Just gotta keep going.

You'll get there for sure, it's just a matter of time. Keep doing what you're doing and it'll just keep getting better and better.

[xxaleksi]

You'll get there for sure, it's just a matter of time. Keep doing what you're doing and it'll just keep getting better and better.

Thanks for the encouragement CD. Can't wait for that day to come, lol.

[xxaleksi]

So there's a possibility my Lost Empire order won't arrive until after Christmas or so. Where I live, everyone's mail is getting delayed by weeks due to a strike. Some deliveries could be delayed till early January.

Shitty luck for sure. No pine pollen powder for over a month it seems (ran out in mid November). I'm using the tincture daily now though so hopefully I won't set myself back by not taking the powder for a month.

Might be just overthinking but I'm doing really well now so even the thought that I could be making myself worse somehow is terrifying to me lol.

Hoping it arrives next week or the week after but we'll see.

[Cdsnuts]

So there's a possibility my Lost Empire order won't arrive until after Christmas or so. Where I live, everyone's mail is getting delayed by weeks due to a strike. Some deliveries could be delayed till early January.

Shitty luck for sure. No pine pollen powder for over a month it seems (ran out in mid November). I'm using the tincture daily now though so hopefully I won't set myself back by not taking the powder for a month.

Might be just overthinking but I'm doing really well now so even the thought that I could be making myself worse somehow is terrifying to me lol.

Hoping it arrives next week or the week after but we'll see.

You in France? I just read about the situation over there yesterday, which is why I'm asking.

[xxaleksi]

You in France? I just read about the situation over there yesterday, which is why I'm asking.
Nope, from Finland - we had a similar situation as France but on a much, much smaller scale. It's mostly over now but mail and package deliveries could be delayed by weeks. Mine's already over a week late. There's a chance it might arrive next week but no guarantees.

If the delivery ends up getting delayed till January, would you say it'd be fine to stay on the tincture daily until then? Or should I go ahead and buy a pine pollen powder supplement from a local herb shop and take that in the meantime? The quality most likely wouldn't be great, but if you think staying on the tincture until January isn't a good idea then I could do it.

[Cdsnuts]

Nope, from Finland - we had a similar situation as France but on a much, much smaller scale. It's mostly over now but mail and package deliveries could be delayed by weeks. Mine's already over a week late. There's a chance it might arrive next week but no guarantees.

If the delivery ends up getting delayed till January, would you say it'd be fine to stay on the tincture daily until then? Or should I go ahead and buy a pine pollen powder supplement from a local herb shop and take that in the meantime? The quality most likely wouldn't be great, but if you think staying on the tincture until January isn't a good idea then I could do it.

Tinctures fine, you're just not getting the full spectrum as you would if it was the powder. Tincture is more hormone based.

[xxaleksi]

Tinctures fine, you're just not getting the full spectrum as you would if it was the powder. Tincture is more hormone based.

Thanks for the advice as always CD

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the advice as always CD

Any time brother.

I've always wanted to travel to some of the Nordic countries to experience them for a bit. In the summer time, of course, lol. For all intents and purposes they have some of the best governmental structures on the planet. From what I understand, taxes are high, but for the most part, the citizens are well cared for and most of their needs are met. Would you say this is true?

[xxaleksi]

Any time brother.

I've always wanted to travel to some of the Nordic countries to experience them for a bit. In the summer time, of course, lol. For all intents and purposes they have some of the best governmental structures on the planet. From what I understand, taxes are high, but for the most part, the citizens are well cared for and most of their needs are met. Would you say this is true?

Yup I'd say that's true, sums it up pretty well. And yeah, if you do decide to travel here someday, it should definitely be in the summer since it's cold as hell here right now and will be even colder in a few months. Makes cold showers hard to do btw, especially in the morning haha.

[xxaleksi]

My order finally arrived, got three megadose bags so should last a long time.

Onwards and upwards :)

[Cdsnuts]

My order finally arrived, got three megadose bags so should last a long time.

Onwards and upwards :)

Let the fun begin!!

[xxaleksi]

What's the verdict on saunas? I personally love them but have been avoiding them a bit due to the possible negative effect on fertility.

[Bankai9000]

All I've read was that it's amazing in all aspects lol
sorry for just posting a youtube link, but I think it's pretty great to listen to this, her vids in general are pretty fine when it comes to health, like especially those on fasting
Here's the short one about Sauna, she got another one with 45min or so: How Sauna Use May Boost Longevity - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKBsh7YTXQ)
- Death from all kind of cardiovascular disease was 50% less likely by the 20 year follow-up by men who used the Sauna 4-7x a week compared to those using it 1x a week",
for me because I had all those heart-issues after crash for several months, I felt like so long I use the Sauna I probably won't die LOL XD (actually srs)

[Brguy]

Do you still have ED and libido issues?

[xxaleksi]

Do you still have ED and libido issues?

Regarding ED, no, not really. My erections still aren't as hard as they used to be pre pfs, though. Libido's still weird - I'll get days of raging libido, and days of really low libido as well. No doubt it'll work itself out over time.

- - - Updated - - -


All I've read was that it's amazing in all aspects lol
sorry for just posting a youtube link, but I think it's pretty great to listen to this, her vids in general are pretty fine when it comes to health, like especially those on fasting
Here's the short one about Sauna, she got another one with 45min or so: How Sauna Use May Boost Longevity - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKBsh7YTXQ)
- Death from all kind of cardiovascular disease was 50% less likely by the 20 year follow-up by men who used the Sauna 4-7x a week compared to those using it 1x a week",
for me because I had all those heart-issues after crash for several months, I felt like so long I use the Sauna I probably won't die LOL XD (actually srs)

Thanks for the reply bro.

[xxaleksi]

Hey guys, today is the day I begin my third cycle of Andro Hard. Doing five pumps morning and night, for six weeks. Will update every once in a while or if I have major improvements in symptoms.

Also, I dealt with a nasty skin infection which I had no choice but to take medication for. This did unfortunately set me back a bit regarding my PFS, but thankfully nothing severe. Just some moodiness/feelings of sadness, less motivation along with less libido.

Anyways, I'm back on the horse now and ready for this cycle. It's been quite a while since I finished my last one, so I'm excited to see where this brings me.

[Alchemy]

Hey guys, today is the day I begin my third cycle of Andro Hard. Doing five pumps morning and night, for six weeks. Will update every once in a while or if I have major improvements in symptoms.

Also, I dealt with a nasty skin infection which I had no choice but to take medication for. This did unfortunately set me back a bit regarding my PFS, but thankfully nothing severe. Just some moodiness/feelings of sadness, less motivation along with less libido.

Anyways, I'm back on the horse now and ready for this cycle. It's been quite a while since I finished my last one, so I'm excited to see where this brings me.

Which androhard did you do for 2nd and 3rd cycle?

Are you still staying with the musclegez?

[xxaleksi]

Which androhard did you do for 2nd and 3rd cycle?

Are you still staying with the musclegez?

Yeah muscle gelz

[Alchemy]

Yeah muscle gelz

Noice!

That's what I'm cycling at that moment for 1st cycle, now on 2nd week and feeling pretty good on it but wanted to try the the other andro hard's for 2nd +3rd cycle, but if it's not broke why fix it!

[xxaleksi]

Bumped the dosage up to 6 pumps morning and night. Haven't really felt anything yet, but it's still early days. Maybe a bit more strength and aggression at the gym.

Also had a 30 minute sauna today and felt great. Haven't had one of those since my juice feast, 11 months ago.

[slader1]

Hey fellas, I don't think I've ever done a post showing the routine I'm doing in detail. So I thought might as well do it. I've been on the protocol since February 2019.

Juice Feast:

Did seven days, after which I began the protocol.

Herbs:

Ant Extract
Ashwagandha Tincture
Schisandra
Eleuthero
Horny Goat Weed
He Shou Wu
Royal Jelly
Tongkat Ali
Shilajit Resin
Cistanche
Goji Berry
Mucuna
Cordyceps
Pine Pollen Tincture
Muira Puama
Butea Superba
Catuaba Bark
Suma Root

I also take two tablespoons of pine pollen powder daily. Currently not taking it though as I ran out a while ago and have been waiting for more to arrive. Therefore I'm currently taking the tincture daily. I also used to have Rhodiola on here too, but I ran out back in September. Lost Empire doesn't seem to have Rhodiola anymore, so if anyone knows a good quality brand that ships to Europe feel free to let me know.

Supplements:

Chlorella
Spirulina
Vitamin D 10,000 iu
Magnesium

I take all of these at night.

Diet:

Paleo style diet with carb backloading after workouts.

Meats and fish: Beef, pork, bacon, lamb, chicken, turkey, tuna, salmon
Fruits: Apples, pears, bananas, strawberries, raspberries
Vegetables: Spinach, broccoli, kale
Spices: Sea salt, black pepper, oregano
Drinks: Water, coconut water

I also eat plenty of eggs during the day.

Carb backloading on workout days: White rice, gluten free pasta

Exercise:

Four gym days a week.

Day 1: Back
Day 2: Arms
Day 3: Chest/Shoulders
Day 4: Legs/Abs

HIIT on Wednesdays/Sundays.

Other Lifestyle:

Cold showers every morning and night
Skin brushing in the shower
Breathing exercises morning and night
Limiting masturbation
Avoiding xenoestrogens
No alcohol
No caffeine
Sun exposure 30 minutes per day whenever possible

Prohormones:

I've done two cycles of Andro Hard by Muscle Gelz.

Cycle #1 was four weeks at 400mg/day
Cycle #2 was five weeks at 400mg/day.

All of this stuff is just a part of my life these days, so it feels like I'm just living my life and not "doing a protocol". Just gotta wait to get back to 100%. By the way, if anyone notices something I might be doing wrong, please feel free to tell me. Thanks!

Sorry, is this correct you are doing 2 *TBSP* of pine pollen daily? Because on the package it says recommended dose 1/2-1 *TSP* 1-2x daily. So you are doing TBSP not TSP right? If so I might try a bigger dose.

[xxaleksi]

Sorry, is this correct you are doing 2 *TBSP* of pine pollen daily? Because on the package it says recommended dose 1/2-1 *TSP* 1-2x daily. So you are doing TBSP not TSP right? If so I might try a bigger dose.

Yeah I do two tablespoons a day. Lost Empire has two dosing recommendations for PP, the normal dose and the megadose. The normal dose is three teaspoons daily, and the megadose is three tablespoons daily. Hope that clears it up bro.

[Turnover25]

Yeah I do two tablespoons a day. Lost Empire has two dosing recommendations for PP, the normal dose and the megadose. The normal dose is three teaspoons daily, and the megadose is three tablespoons daily. Hope that clears it up bro.

Hey dude. What's the reasoning behind taking the powder daily and not the tincture? I've been taking the tincture daily since I thought that was the one that was recommended? Should I be taking the powder instead and cycling the tincture?

[Meegs]

Hey dude. What's the reasoning behind taking the powder daily and not the tincture? I've been taking the tincture daily since I thought that was the one that was recommended? Should I be taking the powder instead and cycling the tincture?

As far as I know, it's common practice for those running herbs to take the PP powder daily and cycle the PP tincture. I'm also rolling this way. Read up more on LEH, but the general theory is that the powder is more like a super food containing many vitamins, minerals, and aminos. It also has some T boosting properties to a lesser degree than the tincture. The tincture is used almost specifically for it's T boosting properties and does not contain the vitamins and minerals that the powder does due to it's alcohol process. You can build up a tolerance to the tincture, but not the powder. I could have missed a couple of details, but that is the skinny on it.

[Turnover25]

As far as I know, it's common practice for those running herbs to take the PP powder daily and cycle the PP tincture. I'm also rolling this way. Read up more on LEH, but the general theory is that the powder is more like a super food containing many vitamins, minerals, and aminos. It also has some T boosting properties to a lesser degree than the tincture. The tincture is used almost specifically for it's T boosting properties and does not contain the vitamins and minerals that the powder does due to it's alcohol process. You can build up a tolerance to the tincture, but not the powder. I could have missed a couple of details, but that is the skinny on it.

Thanks man. I'm going to switch over to the powder as of today. This is great news because it makes me feel great, I just didn't know we could take it every day.

[xxaleksi]

As far as I know, it's common practice for those running herbs to take the PP powder daily and cycle the PP tincture. I'm also rolling this way. Read up more on LEH, but the general theory is that the powder is more like a super food containing many vitamins, minerals, and aminos. It also has some T boosting properties to a lesser degree than the tincture. The tincture is used almost specifically for it's T boosting properties and does not contain the vitamins and minerals that the powder does due to it's alcohol process. You can build up a tolerance to the tincture, but not the powder. I could have missed a couple of details, but that is the skinny on it.

Great explanation^

Sums it up pretty well.

- - - Updated - - -

Had a cup of black tea today after a year without caffeine. I'll have this every morning from now on and see how I respond.

[xxaleksi]

I've been reading studies about black tea, and looks like it can reduce DHT by quite a bit, and according to one study, even more than fin. Should I drop it? I've had one cup yesterday and one today. Or am I worrying needlessly here?

Thanks guys.

[Bankai9000]

As with everything. Not doing it it daily is probably the safest way, so we don't get tipped over to any side^^
But ye I remember back then too, ppl thinking usually green tea as dht inhibitor but actually black tea seems to be the most potent one. I still have it several times a week. Black tea with lemon and honey is just the best thing xD

[Cdsnuts]

I've been reading studies about black tea, and looks like it can reduce DHT by quite a bit, and according to one study, even more than fin. Should I drop it? I've had one cup yesterday and one today. Or am I worrying needlessly here?

Thanks guys.

I really find that hard to believe. As a matter of fact, I think that's complete bullshit. I have never had any problems with black tea and I drink it daily, and have been drinking it daily through my recovery and all.

Seriously, don't even worry about it.

[xxaleksi]

I really find that hard to believe. As a matter of fact, I think that's complete bullshit. I have never had any problems with black tea and I drink it daily, and have been drinking it daily through my recovery and all.

Seriously, don't even worry about it.

Alright, thanks for the reassurance. I just reintroduced coffee too - a few cups per day makes me feel really great after a year of nothing, lol. Makes me feel almost 100% mentally.

- - - Updated - - -


As with everything. Not doing it it daily is probably the safest way, so we don't get tipped over to any side^^
But ye I remember back then too, ppl thinking usually green tea as dht inhibitor but actually black tea seems to be the most potent one. I still have it several times a week. Black tea with lemon and honey is just the best thing xD

Thanks man. I'll probably have it a few times a week as well, and just have coffee the rest of the days.

[Turnover25]

CD’s reassurance and saying not to worry about it is always the best thing to hear, definitely helps take us out of that irrational, paranoid mindset this whole thing caused. It’s nice to have someone snap us back to reality lol

[xxaleksi]

CD’s reassurance and saying not to worry about it is always the best thing to hear, definitely helps take us out of that irrational, paranoid mindset this whole thing caused. It’s nice to have someone snap us back to reality lol

Yeah for sure. For me at least, the constant worrying in itself is a symptom of PFS, so to have him reassure something's fine to take is really helpful.

[xxaleksi]

Just got some Kaged Muscle Creatine HCL. Hopefully this gives me some benefit at the gym :)

Also ordered Rhodiola and Tribulus from Swanson, when they arrive I'll have 20 herbs on my rotation.

Haven't noticed anything worth reporting on my cycle yet, gonna keep going though.

[Turnover25]

Yeah for sure. For me at least, the constant worrying in itself is a symptom of PFS, so to have him reassure something's fine to take is really helpful.

Could be a result of the traumatic experience you suffered. Maybe give Exposure and Response therapy a try. Basically while meditating try to bring up all those worrysome thoughts you're trying to avoid and just confront them, like "yep, I'm totally fucked and that's fine" and don't run from them. In my case, it completely alleviates the severity of intrusive thoughts that build up over time.

[xxaleksi]

Could be a result of the traumatic experience you suffered. Maybe give Exposure and Response therapy a try. Basically while meditating try to bring up all those worrysome thoughts you're trying to avoid and just confront them, like "yep, I'm totally fucked and that's fine" and don't run from them. In my case, it completely alleviates the severity of intrusive thoughts that build up over time.

Yeah, I gave this a try and it does indeed help those thoughts. Thanks for the suggestion!

[xxaleksi]

Gonna drop the andro today at the three week mark. I'm just not getting any benefits from it, and felt better on the herbs.

Bought some Maca recently too, which means I finally have a 21 day rotation. Hopefully this gives me the final push I need for recovery.

Been eating dairy again and drinking coffee daily, after a year without either. Feeling good!

I'm doing well enough that I've been tempted to drink again lol. Don't wanna set myself back though so I'll abstain :)

[RickTheRuler]

Next time finish the cycle. Don’t worry about how you feel or if you get any positive response. That’s not the point with them... some cycles hit you good, some don’t.. take it like medicine & forget what your feeling or not feeling .. even bad feelings sometimes..

One of my cycles made me more depressed & anxious but I pushed through cause I already knew whole purpose was to regenerate 5AR at a faster clip.. once I got off I reached a new baseline .. I recall having another one that really didn’t give me much benefit during. But I stuck with it all 6 weeks and on the other side there was a notable increase.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

Next time finish the cycle. Don’t worry about how you feel or if you get any positive response. That’s not the point with them... some cycles hit you good, some don’t.. take it like medicine & forget what your feeling or not feeling .. even bad feelings sometimes..

One of my cycles made me more depressed & anxious but I pushed through cause I already knew whole purpose was to regenerate 5AR at a faster clip.. once I got off I reached a new baseline .. I recall having another one that really didn’t give me much benefit during. But I stuck with it all 6 weeks and on the other side there was a notable increase.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This^^^^^^^^

[xxaleksi]

Thanks for the advice as always fellas. I guess I was just surprised at not feeling any benefits, considering my first two cycles were profound. I'll definitely go the full six weeks if I do another cycle. I feel mentally recovered these days, during upswings at least, so I'm not sure if I'll need another cycle at all. The coffee I added seems to really have ramped up my mental recovery. If I do decide to cycle again, I'm considering stacking 4 Andro with the transdermal AH.

Also, I took Maca from LEH for the first time today. Tastes nasty imo but whatever it takes for recovery, lol.

[xxaleksi]

So I took Maca for the first time yesterday, and today I feel pretty shit. Anxiety and a general bleh feeling. I haven't had anxiety at all in months, so not sure why I'm having it again today. Could be a coincidence but I remember Maxout saying he didn't respond well to Maca either. Hopefully this passes.

[Maxout777]

So I took Maca for the first time yesterday, and today I feel pretty shit. Anxiety and a general bleh feeling. I haven't had anxiety at all in months, so not sure why I'm having it again today. Could be a coincidence but I remember Maxout saying he didn't respond well to Maca either. Hopefully this passes.

Yep, wasn’t a fan of Maca back then. Binned it then and never have tried it again since.

[JoeP26]

So I took Maca for the first time yesterday, and today I feel pretty shit. Anxiety and a general bleh feeling. I haven't had anxiety at all in months, so not sure why I'm having it again today. Could be a coincidence but I remember Maxout saying he didn't respond well to Maca either. Hopefully this passes.

It will. It's been said many times on here that you get a little worse by something in the protocol and a bit better than previously. Like CD has always said, it's a few steps forward and a couple steps back. Rinse a repeat. You're doing good. Keep it up!

[Turnover25]

So I took Maca for the first time yesterday, and today I feel pretty shit. Anxiety and a general bleh feeling. I haven't had anxiety at all in months, so not sure why I'm having it again today. Could be a coincidence but I remember Maxout saying he didn't respond well to Maca either. Hopefully this passes.

When I ordered my herbs I did 3 rotations of all 21 of them and documented exactly how I felt, I noticed that there were times where a herb would make me feel total shit one time then the next would make me feel great, so I had different reactions to the same herb. I believe maca was one where I felt good, then next I felt bad. Also, I believe that feeling bad on a herb doesn’t necessarily mean it’s hurting you, I think an anxious effect may mean it’s having an effect on your body and fixing things. Just my input.

[xxaleksi]

Yep, wasn’t a fan of Maca back then. Binned it then and never have tried it again since.

Yeah that's what I remembered. I think I'll try taking it again on my next Maca day to see if it's definitely the cause of the shitty feelings. If it is, then I'll just bin it as well.

[xxaleksi]

It will. It's been said many times on here that you get a little worse by something in the protocol and a bit better than previously. Like CD has always said, it's a few steps forward and a couple steps back. Rinse a repeat. You're doing good. Keep it up!

Yeah I've been doing the protocol for a year now so I'm used to the ups and downs. I feel like I'm way past the stage where you get bouts of anxiety out of nowhere throughout the day. I haven't dealt with anxiety at all in like six months, so to have it come back like that is alarming. That's why I suspected Maca was the cause.

- - - Updated - - -


When I ordered my herbs I did 3 rotations of all 21 of them and documented exactly how I felt, I noticed that there were times where a herb would make me feel total shit one time then the next would make me feel great, so I had different reactions to the same herb. I believe maca was one where I felt good, then next I felt bad. Also, I believe that feeling bad on a herb doesn’t necessarily mean it’s hurting you, I think an anxious effect may mean it’s having an effect on your body and fixing things. Just my input.

Yeah I'll try taking it again on my next maca day. If it makes me feel like crap again then I'll just drop it. Really don't miss that type of anxiety at all, lol. Thankfully I feel great again today.

[xxaleksi]

Question to CDnuts and anyone else who may have an idea.

How bad is fapping to the recovery process? Not gonna lie, I've been doing it more often than I should recently. Like a couple times a week. It's been hard to resist now that I have days and weeks where I have good libido. When I had little to no libido it was easy to go months without relapsing. That's not the case now, though.

Obviously I'm going to limit it as much as I can, just wondering if it's something that just slows you down, or if it can prevent progress altogether.

[JoeP26]

Question to CDnuts and anyone else who may have an idea.

How bad is fapping to the recovery process? Not gonna lie, I've been doing it more often than I should recently. Like a couple times a week. It's been hard to resist now that I have days and weeks where I have good libido. When I had little to no libido it was easy to go months without relapsing. That's not the case now, though.

Obviously I'm going to limit it as much as I can, just wondering if it's something that just slows you down, or if it can prevent progress altogether.

On his site, he says to abstain. A lot of people say it makes them crash, makes them irritable, gives them anxiety afterwards, and so on. It used to do that to me but it doesn't do much of anything anymore and I'm more on the "better to abstain" side than "go for it" side. It's nowhere near as of an enjoyable experience anymore, so why waste nutrition on something that's not rewarding, you know? I've only heard of one person who said multiple times a week made them "better" but honestly, who knows what his situation was. Scientifically, abstaining increases virility and stamina, so one would logically conclude that it helps to abstain long term. @CDNuts, what say you?

[Cdsnuts]

Question to CDnuts and anyone else who may have an idea.

How bad is fapping to the recovery process? Not gonna lie, I've been doing it more often than I should recently. Like a couple times a week. It's been hard to resist now that I have days and weeks where I have good libido. When I had little to no libido it was easy to go months without relapsing. That's not the case now, though.

Obviously I'm going to limit it as much as I can, just wondering if it's something that just slows you down, or if it can prevent progress altogether.

It's not going to prevent recovery, but if your libido is that good and you're having no issues, you'd be better off putting the effort into getting a fuck buddy at least. Get the most bang for your buck, biologically speaking.

Is your exercise on point? How about any areas in the protocol you may be lagging in? My point is, if you're having this extra energy come out, you're better suited to put it back into the protocol and reinvest that energy in your healing. Look up sexual transmutation, and the benefits that come along with it.

But if you spank it a couple times a week, well, it could be worse. I'm just saying make sure you're doing everything you can be before blowing your hard won energy on your right hand.

[xxaleksi]

It's not going to prevent recovery, but if your libido is that good and you're having no issues, you'd be better off putting the effort into getting a fuck buddy at least. Get the most bang for your buck, biologically speaking.

Is your exercise on point? How about any areas in the protocol you may be lagging in? My point is, if you're having this extra energy come out, you're better suited to put it back into the protocol and reinvest that energy in your healing. Look up sexual transmutation, and the benefits that come along with it.

But if you spank it a couple times a week, well, it could be worse. I'm just saying make sure you're doing everything you can be before blowing your hard won energy on your right hand.

I have a gf but we're long distance, so don't see each other that often.

I lift weights four to five times a week, with two HIIT days as well. The only thing I haven't been consistent with is mobility work. I'm going to start doing that more often. Everything else has been routine for the past year.

Thanks for the advice, I'm gonna stop the fapping for an entire month and see if I get more energy at the gym, at work or just in general.

[Cdsnuts]

I have a gf but we're long distance, so don't see each other that often.

I lift weights four to five times a week, with two HIIT days as well. The only thing I haven't been consistent with is mobility work. I'm going to start doing that more often. Everything else has been routine for the past year.

Thanks for the advice, I'm gonna stop the fapping for an entire month and see if I get more energy at the gym, at work or just in general.

You will for sure. In all areas of your life. Again, look up sexual transmutation.

[xxaleksi]

Been drinking lots of milk lately. I know CD hates it but I love it and loved it pre PFS as well lol. I really missed dairy after not having any since Nov 2018 (when I crashed). Cheese as well.

The only thing I've been wondering is whether I should be avoiding lactose or not. English said he avoided lactose even though he wasn't lactose intolerant. I'm not lactose intolerant either and haven't had any negative reactions from the milk I've been drinking.

Loving the caffeine too, makes me feel great without any anxiety whatsoever. A year ago it would give me panic attacks, lol.

[Cdsnuts]

Been drinking lots of milk lately. I know CD hates it but I love it and loved it pre PFS as well lol. I really missed dairy after not having any since Nov 2018 (when I crashed). Cheese as well.

The only thing I've been wondering is whether I should be avoiding lactose or not. English said he avoided lactose even though he wasn't lactose intolerant. I'm not lactose intolerant either and haven't had any negative reactions from the milk I've been drinking.

Loving the caffeine too, makes me feel great without any anxiety whatsoever. A year ago it would give me panic attacks, lol.

I'm a huge cheese fan. I never had issues with dairy either. Everyone is different. If you can hack it, then fine. It's a great protein source for those who can digest it without issue.

That's how you know you're moving in the right direction with your healing. Caffeine would always provoke an anxiety attack in me during my beginning phases of PFS. It's also a great potentiator of the herbs.

Sounds like you're things are going well for you.....keep it up.

[xxaleksi]

Been backloading with Haagen Daz ice cream lately. Love it.

Not much else to report really, still doing well. Keep up the good work everyone!

[xxaleksi]

I've been using organic butter recently and melting it on my meats. Tastes delicious, and good for T as well!

Thanks to Jacknap for recommending it in an old post...

[Cdsnuts]

I've been using organic butter recently and melting it on my meats. Tastes delicious, and good for T as well!

Thanks to Jacknap for recommending it in an old post...

Also a good way to get extra calories.

How's everything else going in general?

[xxaleksi]

Also a good way to get extra calories.

How's everything else going in general?

I'm doing really well, remaining symptoms are mainly sexual. Also, I can't really seem to build muscle as easily as I did pre-PFS, despite continually getting stronger. Mentally I'm pretty much fine, which is a godsend considering my worst issues were mental/neurological.

Also, I've noticed that Maca and I don't mix... tried it twice and both times, without fail, I get bad anxiety the next day. Had to drop it out of the rotation unfortunately. Maxout didn't respond well to Maca either.

[Cdsnuts]

I'm doing really well, remaining symptoms are mainly sexual. Also, I can't really seem to build muscle as easily as I did pre-PFS, despite continually getting stronger. Mentally I'm pretty much fine, which is a godsend considering my worst issues were mental/neurological.

Also, I've noticed that Maca and I don't mix... tried it twice and both times, without fail, I get bad anxiety the next day. Had to drop it out of the rotation unfortunately. Maxout didn't respond well to Maca either.

Ive had Maca go both ways depending on vendor. Bottom line, if it does't agree with you, bin it. Plenty of other things to take

[xxaleksi]

Libido's been nearly 100% the past week or so with the help of nofap and edging. Can't get as hard as I used to pre PFS but I'll take it. Wish I started doing nofap earlier but better late than never (started a bit over two months ago)

[Cdsnuts]

Libido's been nearly 100% the past week or so with the help of nofap and edging. Can't get as hard as I used to pre PFS but I'll take it. Wish I started doing nofap earlier but better late than never (started a bit over two months ago)

Awesome. Now it's time for this.....https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?oid=2&affid=209

[xxaleksi]

Awesome. Now it's time for this.....https://officialhydromaxpump.com/?oid=2&affid=209

I actually got a bathmate a few months ago, just haven't used it yet lol. Gonna give it a shot in the shower tonight :D

[xxaleksi]

Not sure if it's just a coincidence or not, but I've been getting much better erections after just a couple days of using the bathmate. I also had that symptom where my glans would stay shrunken and not fill up with blood, despite the rest of my cock being hard. That's gone now.

Either way, I'm really impressed with the bathmate! I think I'll start pumping 3-4 times a week or so.

[Cdsnuts]

Not sure if it's just a coincidence or not, but I've been getting much better erections after just a couple days of using the bathmate. I also had that symptom where my glans would stay shrunken and not fill up with blood, despite the rest of my cock being hard. That's gone now.

Either way, I'm really impressed with the bathmate! I think I'll start pumping 3-4 times a week or so.

Not a coincidence. Come on dude.....lol. It's in the regimen for a reason. It's extremely effective. Don't go crazy though. Stay at three times a week and if you want to kick it up a notch, simply increase the duration of your sessions.

Just stay the course bro.....you're getting there.

[xxaleksi]

Not a coincidence. Come on dude.....lol. It's in the regimen for a reason. It's extremely effective. Don't go crazy though. Stay at three times a week and if you want to kick it up a notch, simply increase the duration of your sessions.

Just stay the course bro.....you're getting there.
Lol. I just thought the benefits would come over time, not immediately. Can’t complain though, this thing’s fucking awesome. Thanks for the tips too.

The protocol is just my way of life now, like you mentioned before, so staying the course means just living my life. Easy as hell.

[Cdsnuts]

Lol. I just thought the benefits would come over time, not immediately. Can’t complain though, this thing’s fucking awesome. Thanks for the tips too.

The protocol is just my way of life now, like you mentioned before, so staying the course means just living my life. Easy as hell.

Then you my friend, have a recovery coming sooner then later. Great job.

[xxaleksi]

Started another andro hard cycle today. Gonna do a 12 week summer cycle unless CD or anyone thinks it's a bad idea.

I'm not too worried about getting shut down as I remember reading somewhere that CD cycled the old AH v3 from Primordial for 16 weeks and didn't get shut down.

Daily supps are the usual protocol stuff:

Vitamin D
Chlorella
Spirulina
Magnesium
Creatine HCL

Let's go!

[xxaleksi]

Day 3 on andro. Already feel great. I'm doing four pumps in the morning and four at night. I'm happy I already feel the effects compared to last time when I didn't feel shit.

One of my symptoms since crash is some sort of subcutaneous tissue loss in my hands. My hands are skinnier than they were pre PFS. It's the only symptom that hasn't improved at all doing the protocol. I wonder if it's somehow 5ar/DHT related as I still haven't done a full six week cycle yet. I've done everything else diligently though. So if it's caused by low 5ar then this long cycle I'm about to do should help by increasing 5ar/DHT. Just speculating though, we'll see.

Also drinking coconut water for the potassium.

[Cdsnuts]

Day 3 on andro. Already feel great. I'm doing four pumps in the morning and four at night. I'm happy I already feel the effects compared to last time when I didn't feel shit.

One of my symptoms since crash is some sort of subcutaneous tissue loss in my hands. My hands are skinnier than they were pre PFS. It's the only symptom that hasn't improved at all doing the protocol. I wonder if it's somehow 5ar/DHT related as I still haven't done a full six week cycle yet. I've done everything else diligently though. So if it's caused by low 5ar then this long cycle I'm about to do should help by increasing 5ar/DHT. Just speculating though, we'll see.

Also drinking coconut water for the potassium.

Just be conscious of how you're feeling throughout the cycle. If you start feeling like it's too much, pull the plug. There is no harm in running a 12 week cycle other then you may want to stop before the 12 weeks is up. Nothing compares to the old primordial stuff....nothing. The transdermal is the next best thing.

[xxaleksi]

Just be conscious of how you're feeling throughout the cycle. If you start feeling like it's too much, pull the plug. There is no harm in running a 12 week cycle other then you may want to stop before the 12 weeks is up. Nothing compares to the old primordial stuff....nothing. The transdermal is the next best thing.

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind! I have three bottles of the stuff sitting here so should last for a while.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind! I have three bottles of the stuff sitting here so should last for a while.

I've told a few people so far, but I am now able to offer AH TD by muscle gelz at a decent price for you guys on the forum. FYI

[xxaleksi]

I've told a few people so far, but I am now able to offer AH TD by muscle gelz at a decent price for you guys on the forum. FYI

That's great, I'll make sure to hit you up if I need to order some more in the future!

Cycle's going well, it's still early days but I feel almost recovered. Excited for this run for sure.

[Cdsnuts]

That's great, I'll make sure to hit you up if I need to order some more in the future!

Cycle's going well, it's still early days but I feel almost recovered. Excited for this run for sure.

I haven't cycled in awhile....I miss it. I may do an AH run this summer, but haven't decided yet. These days, I really feel better just with minimal herb dosing here and there. These days, mostly adaptogens. But in your spot, cycling is alot of fun, imo

[xxaleksi]

Still going great. The mental benefits are amazing, I feel totally like my old self. Feels like it’s 2018, before I took fin. I thought I was mentally recovered before this, but turns out that wasn’t the case.

I did 600mg yesterday but dropped it back to 400mg today. Don’t wanna crush my estrogen

Goal is to go at least 8 weeks, extending to 12 weeks if i feel like it.

[DKnighten]

Still going great. The mental benefits are amazing, I feel totally like my old self. Feels like it’s 2018, before I took fin. I thought I was mentally recovered before this, but turns out that wasn’t the case.

I did 600mg yesterday but dropped it back to 400mg today. Don’t wanna crush my estrogen

Goal is to go at least 8 weeks, extending to 12 weeks if i feel like it.

Awesome to hear man. Still running the AH transdermal?

[xxaleksi]

Awesome to hear man. Still running the AH transdermal?

Yeah man, I have three bottles of it here so it should last for quite a while. My goal is to go for at least 8 weeks like I said above. My shorter cycles of 4 and 5 weeks that I've done before gave me fantastic results so I'm really excited for this one.

What's strange is that when I tried andro back in January for a couple weeks, I didn't feel anything. This time, I felt the effects in just a couple days.

[xxaleksi]

Almost at the end of third week on Andro. Mood is great, libido great, muscles are hard and just overall feel amazing, for the most part.

Side effects so far have been some lethargy, and some anxiety at times. Nothing I can’t push through. The gf is visiting me for a few weeks too so the raging libido has definitely been a plus, lol.

Excited to see how this progresses :D

[xxaleksi]

Feeling like a beast at the gym. Worked arms today and still had plenty of energy to go even after an intense hour long workout. Funny how the andro makes me lethargic and sleepy but still have amazing energy at the gym lol.

[xxaleksi]

Just got back from sprinting with the gf. It was sunny so I took my shirt off and ran in the sun without it, double benefits lol. Feel great, the andro is definitely doing its job.

On another note, anyone know if it’s possible to drink too much Kombucha? Might be a stupid question but it has traces of alcohol in it and I’ve been drinking it everyday for a week now. Love the taste and it’s a probiotic too. But of course us PFS guys need to avoid alcohol so I’m wondering if I could be causing myself some harm there. Could also be me overthinking. If I remember correctly, English recommended Kombucha to Maxout and he drank it a few times a week throughout his recovery. I’m a bit addicted to the stuff already, lol.

[DrivenToRecover]

Just got back from sprinting with the gf. It was sunny so I took my shirt off and ran in the sun without it, double benefits lol. Feel great, the andro is definitely doing its job.

On another note, anyone know if it’s possible to drink too much Kombucha? Might be a stupid question but it has traces of alcohol in it and I’ve been drinking it everyday for a week now. Love the taste and it’s a probiotic too. But of course us PFS guys need to avoid alcohol so I’m wondering if I could be causing myself some harm there. Could also be me overthinking. If I remember correctly, English recommended Kombucha to Maxout and he drank it a few times a week throughout his recovery. I’m a bit addicted to the stuff already, lol.

Bucha is definitely ok. Just don't drink 6 packs of the 3% alc kind and your fine.

I'm really looking forward to starting my first round of AH transdermal this week. Have not been here on the forum since AH was the recommended pro-hormone used, so im curious the ways its been discussed to maximize results.

Have you seen any skin health benefits in the areas you've been applying it?

I've read and seen anecdotal evidence that the skin takes a healthy and more youthful appearance...so considering putting it straight on the face lol

Also considering rubbing it on the neck, and targeting the blood that's directly flowing to the brain to theoretically increase steroidogenesis there.

[xxaleksi]

Bucha is definitely ok. Just don't drink 6 packs of the 3% alc kind and your fine.

I'm really looking forward to starting my first round of AH transdermal this week. Have not been here on the forum since AH was the recommended pro-hormone used, so im curious the ways its been discussed to maximize results.

Have you seen any skin health benefits in the areas you've been applying it?

I've read and seen anecdotal evidence that the skin takes a healthy and more youthful appearance...so considering putting it straight on the face lol

Also considering rubbing it on the neck, and targeting the blood that's directly flowing to the brain to theoretically increase steroidogenesis there.

Thanks, yeah the one I drink has less than 0.5% alcohol.

Definitely let the forum know how you like the AH. I’ve enjoyed it on all of my runs so far. This is my third proper cycle, not counting a three week one I did in January but didn’t respond to for whatever reason. Regarding the skin benefits, I haven’t noticed anything out of the ordinary tbh. It does make my face more oily though, as one would expect from a DHT prohormone. I’ve been applying the gel to my triceps and chest.

[xxaleksi]

Four weeks on Andro Hard complete. The daily sun exposure has definitely been helping the benefits I've been getting from this run.

4-8 weeks left, depending on how long I feel like going!

[xxaleksi]

Might be getting some low estro sides. Achy joints, low libido and a bit more anxiety. Not a big deal though, so hopefully I can keep this cycle going for the 8-12 weeks I planned. Still doing 4 pumps in the AM and again in the PM.

Other than that, I feel great - I actually sweat a lot after workouts now, forgot how that was like. Oily skin is back and muscles are rock hard. Can’t beat it.

[Jado]

Hey, thinking of trying Androhard cycle. I tried R Andro after doing all the necessary steps, but it didn't agree with me - I think because of IBD. So, I'm hoping to have better luck with transdermal approach i.e. bypassing the GI tract.
I've come a LONG way on the protocol. Most days I feel somewhere between 85-90%. I've had a couple upswings where I felt 100%, but it didn't last too long. I REALLY want to get that last 10-15%, and I believe prohormones is the way - after all, it just makes sense.
Anyway, I don't see it anywhere on here, so I assume there's no need, but I'm curious if cycle support is necessary? I assume the herb rotation will act as PCT... Thanks in advance.

[Mineiro-up]

Might be getting some low estro sides. Achy joints, low libido and a bit more anxiety. Not a big deal though, so hopefully I can keep this cycle going for the 8-12 weeks I planned. Still doing 4 pumps in the AM and again in the PM.

Other than that, I feel great - I actually sweat a lot after workouts now, forgot how that was like. Oily skin is back and muscles are rock hard. Can’t beat it.

I’m on the same boat I think...or at least something near. I’m on my 3rd week of 1st cycle and im experiencing some estro sides also. Libido got lower and having some anxiety (is this what women experience on their periods? 😂). Although sleep, digestion, sweating, muscle, skin is still good. Let’s keep sailing this fluctuations!!!
Have to talk...addicted to the breathing exercises!

[xxaleksi]

Hey, thinking of trying Androhard cycle. I tried R Andro after doing all the necessary steps, but it didn't agree with me - I think because of IBD. So, I'm hoping to have better luck with transdermal approach i.e. bypassing the GI tract.
I've come a LONG way on the protocol. Most days I feel somewhere between 85-90%. I've had a couple upswings where I felt 100%, but it didn't last too long. I REALLY want to get that last 10-15%, and I believe prohormones is the way - after all, it just makes sense.
Anyway, I don't see it anywhere on here, so I assume there's no need, but I'm curious if cycle support is necessary? I assume the herb rotation will act as PCT... Thanks in advance.

Glad to hear you’re doing so well man! Cycle support isn’t necessary for the AH, it’s a pretty mild prohormone. And yes, herbs for PCT. This is my third andro run and I’ve never felt any symptoms of suppression this way.

[xxaleksi]

I’m on the same boat I think...or at least something near. I’m on my 3rd week of 1st cycle and im experiencing some estro sides also. Libido got lower and having some anxiety (is this what women experience on their periods? ��). Although sleep, digestion, sweating, muscle, skin is still good. Let’s keep sailing this fluctuations!!!
Have to talk...addicted to the breathing exercises!

Sounds similar to my experience. First three weeks were fantastic, now I definitely feel the signs of low E. I’m just gonna keep pushing through as the body is still doing what it’s supposed to do ”behind the scenes” despite these symptoms.

[Jado]

Glad to hear you’re doing so well man! Cycle support isn’t necessary for the AH, it’s a pretty mild prohormone. And yes, herbs for PCT. This is my third andro run and I’ve never felt any symptoms of suppression this way.

Thanks for the reply!
Yeah, it's been a long road, and I still have downswings where I feel like 70%. The good news is they are becoming fewer, and they don't last nearly as long. Overall, life is pretty dang good! I'm hoping the AH cycles will put me over the last hurdle. Time will tell. If I notice big improvements I'll be sure to let y'all know.

[xxaleksi]

Tomorrow will be five weeks. I'm still feeling some of the benefits like harder muscles, oily skin, sweating more etc. but also feeling side effects that I assume are due to low estrogen and/or epiandro. Anxiety, lethargy, joints hurt, lower libido and just generally feel quite exhausted, especially when exercising. I felt great for the first three weeks, but since then the benefits have faded a bit. I'm on vacation and I'm pretty much just laying on the couch all day besides exercise and sun exposure lol. The fatigue is crazy, can't imagine having to work while feeling like this.

Not gonna lie I probably won't be running this for the 8-12 weeks like I planned to, these symptoms just aren't worth it. Current goal is to run this for one more week which makes it six weeks.

[Mineiro-up]

Tomorrow will be five weeks. I'm still feeling some of the benefits like harder muscles, oily skin, sweating more etc. but also feeling side effects that I assume are due to low estrogen and/or epiandro. Anxiety, lethargy, joints hurt, lower libido and just generally feel quite exhausted, especially when exercising. I felt great for the first three weeks, but since then the benefits have faded a bit. I'm on vacation and I'm pretty much just laying on the couch all day besides exercise and sun exposure lol. The fatigue is crazy, can't imagine having to work while feeling like this.

Not gonna lie I probably won't be running this for the 8-12 weeks like I planned to, these symptoms just aren't worth it. Current goal is to run this for one more week which makes it six weeks.

You prob will think that I should write on my own thread...hahaha

But I want to reinforce that I’m experiencing the same symptoms. I think for me it’s being quicker since it’s my first cycle. But I can really notice some ups and downs about mental sides, not brainfog but mood in general. I will run 10 days more and give it a break.

I don’t wanna overthink about this, hoping things are happening behind the scenes as you said! This process teach us how to deal with stress without loosing our minds, it’s a huge growing for all of us.

[xxaleksi]

Libido back up today. Jerked off twice and I'm having a difficult time resisting doing it for the third time LOL. Not gonna do it though. I've been doing nofap for several months but it's been hard (no pun intended) to abstain on this cycle

The fatigue and anxiety suck but gonna soldier on until Sunday :)

[xxaleksi]

Dropped the cycle today. I've got an important meeting in a couple days and don't want to be fatigued like hell. Cycle was five weeks and four days in total... That should be enough as CD recommends cycling the transdermal AndroHard for 4-6 weeks in the sticky.

Positives:

- Felt completely like my old self for the first three weeks or so, then it faded a bit
- Had days and weeks where I had a raging libido, and actually lusted after girls HARD. Haven't felt that since before PFS
- Strength up, oily skin, amazing pumps, alpha male feeling... the usual stuff I've come to expect from DHT cycles

Negatives:

- Anxiety at times
- Fatigue/exhaustion after three weeks or so
- Lethargy, to the point where I felt like I was going to fall asleep when walking the streets
- Possibly felt some low E sides towards the end
- Feel like the andro made me a bit of a prick at times lol

Hopefully I get a good baseline improvement from this :)

[xxaleksi]

Got sick, sigh... hopefully this won’t last long. Considering fasting for a couple days.

[xxaleksi]

Considering running Androvar for my next cycle... 100mg Epiandrosterone per capsule. One bottle is supposed to last for the whole six weeks apparently when taking 3-4 capsules per day.

Bizzbee used this for his last cycle before he recovered, so I'm hoping it benefits me too. I felt nearly recovered for the first three weeks or so on my last cycle but it faded. Excited to see how this works for me but the Epi in the transdermal AndroHard already makes me fatigued so I hope this product won't make me feel like shit for the full six weeks.

[alphacfi]

How are your mental symptoms now? I just started my andro cycle a week and a half ago. Doing 10 pumps in the morning and 10 at night stacked with the 4 andro. Similar to what Ricky did. So far I haven't felt anything bad or good. Like I might as well not be doing anything lol. Other than I think I am looking more jacked than usual. But mental symptoms are still ups and downs like usual.

[xxaleksi]

How are your mental symptoms now? I just started my andro cycle a week and a half ago. Doing 10 pumps in the morning and 10 at night stacked with the 4 andro. Similar to what Ricky did. So far I haven't felt anything bad or good. Like I might as well not be doing anything lol. Other than I think I am looking more jacked than usual. But mental symptoms are still ups and downs like usual.

I’m doing well mentally. Don’t wanna say recovered because I thought I was, but after what I felt on my cycle, I realized I’m really not. Literally felt 100% like my old self for the first three weeks on the stuff.

That stack sounds nice. Tbh I I think MuscleGelz changed the serving size of Androhard of something.... I tried one of the newer bottles for three weeks back in January and felt nothing. This time, I ran a bottle I still had from last year... felt great. After three weeks I switched to a new bottle for a week to test it, benefits went away. Went back to the old one, they came back. I emailed MuscleGelz and they told me 12 pumps of the product is equal to 100mgs, which is pretty low. Might wanna look into this Cdsnuts

One of the reasons I’ll be looking for alternatives. The Androvar looks promising.

[alphacfi]

This is my fourth cycle and I can't say I have ever felt anything dramatic from any of them. Last year I had the old stuff too and didn't do anything I could definitively point to. If we get the go ahead on the Androvar I'd definitely be willing to give that a go to switch it up.

[xxaleksi]

This is my fourth cycle and I can't say I have ever felt anything dramatic from any of them. Last year I had the old stuff too and didn't do anything I could definitively point to. If we get the go ahead on the Androvar I'd definitely be willing to give that a go to switch it up.

CD would have to try it himself first in order to recommend it, and from what I remember reading, epiandro solo doesn't agree with him. Androvar recovered Bizzbee though, so that's why I want to give it a go. Entropy also ran 600mg Epi at some point. It's also very cost effective, you get the full six weeks amount of product in one bottle.

I'll definitely let the forum know about my experience if I choose to run it. Still have a bit over six weeks of herb cycling left first.

[Turnover25]

CD would have to try it himself first in order to recommend it, and from what I remember reading, epiandro solo doesn't agree with him. Androvar recovered Bizzbee though, so that's why I want to give it a go. Entropy also ran 600mg Epi at some point. It's also very cost effective, you get the full six weeks amount of product in one bottle.

I'll definitely let the forum know about my experience if I choose to run it. Still have a bit over six weeks of herb cycling left first.

xxaleksi alphacfi I’ve been wanting to run a cycle for a long time, I’m aiming around the 1st of August. But I drank a little bit so I want to make sure my body is clean first. Honestly, I’ve been too scared to do a cycle yet.

[xxaleksi]

xxaleksi alphacfi I’ve been wanting to run a cycle for a long time, I’m aiming around the 1st of August. But I drank a little bit so I want to make sure my body is clean first. Honestly, I’ve been too scared to do a cycle yet.

Do you have R-Andro or AndroHard? If you have R-Andro, I'd just go for it. When dosed properly these prohormones make you feel euphoric, make you strong af, make your voice deeper and just give you a "don't fuck with me" alpha feeling. Not to mention the libido increase. Of course this depends on how well your PFS is doing at the moment. Just do your PCT afterwards and you'll be fine.

If you have the AndroHard, I honestly wouldn't bother. The newer bottles seem to be ridiculously underdosed. Used to be like four pumps for 400mg and now people here seem to be doing 20 pumps per day with very little effect. Strange.

[The whit wagon]

Where do you get R-andro from?

[xxaleksi]

I’m doing really well. I read a bunch of English’s old posts where he talked about leaving the forums and forgetting about PFS to fully recover and getting over the PFS mindset. I feel like I’m in a similar position now.

I didn’t visit the forum for a few weeks (besides making one thread about the Blue Vervain tincture) and I felt basically recovered... I think it’s time for me to move on mentally from this whole PFS disaster and get back to normal living. I’ll visit here every couple of weeks, and of course will make a recovery post once I’m there.

Thanks to everyone who’s helped me, especially CD. I have my life back now. And to everyone who’s on the fence about trying the protocol here, just do it. It works.

I also plan on running Androvar (oral epiandro) in the future. I’ll let the forum know about my experiences.

Peace out

[Comewhatmay]

Congrats on getting your health back dude. Very inspiring to see the progress you've made. Make sure to leave the door open for us on the way out

All the best

[Turnover25]

I’m doing really well. I read a bunch of English’s old posts where he talked about leaving the forums and forgetting about PFS to fully recover and getting over the PFS mindset. I feel like I’m in a similar position now.

I didn’t visit the forum for a few weeks (besides making one thread about the Blue Vervain tincture) and I felt basically recovered... I think it’s time for me to move on mentally from this whole PFS disaster and get back to normal living. I’ll visit here every couple of weeks, and of course will make a recovery post once I’m there.

Thanks to everyone who’s helped me, especially CD. I have my life back now. And to everyone who’s on the fence about trying the protocol here, just do it. It works.

I also plan on running Androvar (oral epiandro) in the future. I’ll let the forum know about my experiences.

Peace out

I’ve been rooting for you man. Your posts have really helped me since I started here. Get out there and live your life bro. Hopefully I’ll be right behind you in the following year or so.

[alphacfi]

Congrats on your great progress bro. Go live it up and yes please post a recovery when you've reached it! We need more stories on there for the new guys

[Maxout777]

I’m doing really well. I read a bunch of English’s old posts where he talked about leaving the forums and forgetting about PFS to fully recover and getting over the PFS mindset. I feel like I’m in a similar position now.

I didn’t visit the forum for a few weeks (besides making one thread about the Blue Vervain tincture) and I felt basically recovered... I think it’s time for me to move on mentally from this whole PFS disaster and get back to normal living. I’ll visit here every couple of weeks, and of course will make a recovery post once I’m there.

Thanks to everyone who’s helped me, especially CD. I have my life back now. And to everyone who’s on the fence about trying the protocol here, just do it. It works.

I also plan on running Androvar (oral epiandro) in the future. I’ll let the forum know about my experiences.

Peace out

Congrats man, well deserved!

[Ratchet]

I’m doing really well. I read a bunch of English’s old posts where he talked about leaving the forums and forgetting about PFS to fully recover and getting over the PFS mindset. I feel like I’m in a similar position now.

I didn’t visit the forum for a few weeks (besides making one thread about the Blue Vervain tincture) and I felt basically recovered... I think it’s time for me to move on mentally from this whole PFS disaster and get back to normal living. I’ll visit here every couple of weeks, and of course will make a recovery post once I’m there.

Thanks to everyone who’s helped me, especially CD. I have my life back now. And to everyone who’s on the fence about trying the protocol here, just do it. It works.

I also plan on running Androvar (oral epiandro) in the future. I’ll let the forum know about my experiences.

Peace out

Well done – well deserved. All the best to you in your next chapter & looking forward to reading your recovery post!

Cheers!

Ratchet

[xxaleksi]

Hi guys, its been a while.

I crashed in November 2018, started the protocol in Feb 2019 and completely recovered by April-May 2021. Doing better than ever now! Much better than pre fin.

Keep going everyone..

[Cdsnuts]

Hi guys, its been a while.

I crashed in November 2018, started the protocol in Feb 2019 and completely recovered by April-May 2021. Doing better than ever now! Much better than pre fin.

Keep going everyone..

Excellent! Have you made a recovery post? If not, PLEASE Do. I don't ask for much here....at all, except that when you recover, you give back in the form of a recovery post.

Let's keep rackin em up guys.......

they laughed at first, and then as the recoveries grew, and grew, they simply had nothing left to laugh about. Keep grinding men....

[xxaleksi]

Excellent! Have you made a recovery post? If not, PLEASE Do. I don't ask for much here....at all, except that when you recover, you give back in the form of a recovery post.

Let's keep rackin em up guys.......

they laughed at first, and then as the recoveries grew, and grew, they simply had nothing left to laugh about. Keep grinding men....

Yeah I made a recovery post but it was pretty short. Thinking about making a more detailed one when I get time so the newcomers have some hope...

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I made a recovery post but it was pretty short. Thinking about making a more detailed one when I get time so the newcomers have some hope...

That would be very much appreciated.

[Thetfordboy]

Alright thanks CD. I'm loving this cycle so far lol. Did HIIT the other day and I felt like an absolute beast lol. I bumped my dosage up to 400mg of both Androsterone and Epiandro (4 pumps at morning, 4 pumps in the evening). Is this cool to run for six weeks like R-Andro?


Sorry I am confused, are/were you taking Androsterone and Epiandro or Musclegelz AndroHard?

[xxaleksi]

Sorry I am confused, are/were you taking Androsterone and Epiandro or Musclegelz AndroHard?

I was running androhard from muscle gelz which is a combination of androsterone and epiandro. I’m pretty sure they changed the dosing on the product so wouldn’t recommend it anymore although I haven’t checked in over a year. I’d say ultra hard is your best bet. Currently running Ultra Hard and Alpha Four myself and loving it... feels even better now that I’m recovered

[Thetfordboy]

I was running androhard from muscle gelz which is a combination of androsterone and epiandro. I’m pretty sure they changed the dosing on the product so wouldn’t recommend it anymore although I haven’t checked in over a year. I’d say ultra hard is your best bet. Currently running Ultra Hard and Alpha Four myself and loving it... feels even better now that I’m recovered

Thank you, I am months away from the hormones having only started the fast so I'll cross that bridge when I get to it with the knowledge I am learning here.

[Cdsnuts]

I was running androhard from muscle gelz which is a combination of androsterone and epiandro. I’m pretty sure they changed the dosing on the product so wouldn’t recommend it anymore although I haven’t checked in over a year. I’d say ultra hard is your best bet. Currently running Ultra Hard and Alpha Four myself and loving it... feels even better now that I’m recovered

How about that recovery post?

[xxaleksi]

How about that recovery post?

Gonna make one when I get more time. Super busy these days and I want to make a really lengthy one detailing exactly when I toon fin, when I got pfs, what I did and how strict I was etc.

I’m over a month into an ultra hard + alpha four run and feeling great. Trying to get into amazing shape for summer

[Cdsnuts]

Gonna make one when I get more time. Super busy these days and I want to make a really lengthy one detailing exactly when I toon fin, when I got pfs, what I did and how strict I was etc.

I’m over a month into an ultra hard + alpha four run and feeling great. Trying to get into amazing shape for summer

Good.

Just watch the summertime pleasure trap.

When coasting into summer on the heels of recovery, it's real tempting to go and get all fucked up.....Beaches, women in bikini's, partying, but if you over do it too soon, you'll regret it.

Just an fyi.

[Thetfordboy]

If he's over 6 months recovered shouldn't he be safe ? Infact he's over a year recovered

[xxaleksi]

Yeah I’ve been recovered since around May of last year lol. I can get fucked up just fine with no negative effects. I made a short recovery post already a couple months ago but need to do a longer one soon..

Trying to find a prohormone dose that gives me an alpha feeling without making me too cocky or an asshole lol. Especially now that I’m in a relationship again. Currently on three pumps of alpha four and six pumps of the ultra. Gonna have to order more soon as I would like to go for two more months or so.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I’ve been recovered since around May of last year lol. I can get fucked up just fine with no negative effects. I made a short recovery post already a couple months ago but need to do a longer one soon..

Trying to find a prohormone dose that gives me an alpha feeling without making me too cocky or an asshole lol. Especially now that I’m in a relationship again. Currently on three pumps of alpha four and six pumps of the ultra. Gonna have to order more soon as I would like to go for two more months or so.

Whats the longest you've went? Now that you're out of the woods, you can play around some......

[xxaleksi]

Whats the longest you've went? Now that you're out of the woods, you can play around some......

Longest cycle I’ve done was eight weeks. Currently at the six week mark and would like to go for six more so 12 weeks total.

[Cdsnuts]

Longest cycle I’ve done was eight weeks. Currently at the six week mark and would like to go for six more so 12 weeks total.

Solid.

[xxaleksi]

Lol I posted my recovery story on propeciahelp as well and of course the nazi moderators censored it.

Oh well, at least I had a couple guys reach out to me who I’m going to be helping with recovery. Hopefully they can be free from the dictatorship over on that site.

[Cdsnuts]

Lol I posted my recovery story on propeciahelp as well and of course the nazi moderators censored it.

Oh well, at least I had a couple guys reach out to me who I’m going to be helping with recovery. Hopefully they can be free from the dictatorship over on that site.

Honestly I don't know why you bother with that shit hole.

But good for you for giving back and helping others.

[xxaleksi]

Honestly I don't know why you bother with that shit hole.

But good for you for giving back and helping others.

Yeah I try to pay it forward as one of the first things I read on that site was how severe cases cannot recover (which turned out to be false).

Some moderator who’s had PFS for 20 years censored my thread to remove parts where I said PFS wasn’t permanent lol

And of course many others said how my recovery was just due to time passing or luck.. sigh

[AltRoute]

Yeah I try to pay it forward as one of the first things I read on that site was how severe cases cannot recover (which turned out to be false).

Some moderator who’s had PFS fot 20 years censored my thread to remove parts where I said PFS wasn’t permanent lol

And of course many others said how my recovery was just due to time passing or luck.. sigh

Even though I’m still recovering I’m at the point where I can say I’m substantially better than I was when crashing and doing nothing, so back in like Feb/ March I confirmed under fellow SS member Zonz on this PH post /thread on how TMO has been a godsend to Finasteride recovery and how it’s not a death sentence , and the mods flooded my inbox saying how i was breaking rules and creating harm. Ended up getting banned but idgaf, that place is cancer

btw I was godsplan

[Readytonut]

Ive been on both forums active and people on PH generally are scared of using anything to get better. They often say dont take anything or dont do this and that…. They all prey for a magical event to get better. And of course that fatalistic mindset and negativity.

People on SS are way more positive and a little autistic (in a good way), because we are using weird chinese and east asian herbs to biohack ur body’s…. When you talk to people (who dont know about PFS) about the herbs they think its weird.

[xxaleksi]

Ive been on both forums active and people on PH generally are scared of using anything to get better. They often say dont take anything or dont do this and that…. They all prey for a magical event to get better. And of course that fatalistic mindset and negativity.

People on SS are way more positive and a little autistic (in a good way), because we are using weird chinese and east asian herbs to biohack ur body’s…. When you talk to people (who dont know about PFS) about the herbs they think its weird.

Yeah I know all about the weirdness... I had the same gf the whole two years of my recovery and she saw all the crazy shit I did, the fasting, dick pump, sunning my balls, 21-day herb rotation, ordering animal bones from the internet to make my own bone broth etc. LOL.

[Thetfordboy]

Yeah I know all about the weirdness... I had the same gf the whole two years of my recovery and she saw all the crazy shit I did, the fasting, dick pump, sunning my balls, 21-day herb rotation, ordering animal bones from the internet to make my own bone broth etc. LOL.

You are a legend for coming back and helping mate-fair play to you. What fasting did you do?

[Cdsnuts]

Ive been on both forums active and people on PH generally are scared of using anything to get better. They often say dont take anything or dont do this and that…. They all prey for a magical event to get better. And of course that fatalistic mindset and negativity.

People on SS are way more positive and a little autistic (in a good way), because we are using weird chinese and east asian herbs to biohack ur body’s…. When you talk to people (who dont know about PFS) about the herbs they think its weird.

Autistic? Nah. Not quite.

Positive, forward thinking, hopeful and confident that what they're doing works, yes.

[Cdsnuts]

Even though I’m still recovering I’m at the point where I can say I’m substantially better than I was when crashing and doing nothing, so back in like Feb/ March I confirmed under fellow SS member Zonz on this PH post /thread on how TMO has been a godsend to Finasteride recovery and how it’s not a death sentence , and the mods flooded my inbox saying how i was breaking rules and creating harm. Ended up getting banned but idgaf, that place is cancer

btw I was godsplan

Imagine how I felt ten years back when I thought everyone was going to be so over joyed and happy that they had a way out. I was so naive.

It is a cancer. THEY are the ones causing harm by lying to everyone telling them something doesn't work when it clearly does, lol.

Stay the course. You'll get there.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I try to pay it forward as one of the first things I read on that site was how severe cases cannot recover (which turned out to be false).

Some moderator who’s had PFS fot 20 years censored my thread to remove parts where I said PFS wasn’t permanent lol

And of course many others said how my recovery was just due to time passing or luck.. sigh

Karma points coming your way brother, for sure.

You would think people suffering needlessly for 20 years would jump at/want to try something that has a proven track record for recovery. I guess i could see if in the beginning, they were trepidatious, but it's been a fucking decade man.....lol.

Some people you just can't reach .......

[xxaleksi]

Hey all,

I wanted to update this thread with some information that I think might be of importance to guys who are currently on their recovery journeys.

During my own journey, I did four full prohormone cycles in total. The first two were Andro Hard (Muscle Gelz), the third one was Ultra Hard solo and the fourth one was a stack of Ultra Hard and Alpha Four (4-Andro).

My fourth cycle is what brought back my libido in full force and really ”pushed” me to recovery sort of. All benefits stuck post cycle and this is when I started to really feel alpha, quick witted and confident etc. again.

How am I now? Well, I felt recovered after that fourth cycle so around May-June of 2021. During this time I found a new girlfriend and actually felt like a normal human being for the first time in YEARS. I had split up from my previous gf a couple months prior, who I was with the two years of my recovery.

During this time we unknowingly bought a Trichothecene mycotoxin infested mattress, there was nothing visibly wrong with the mattress, no strange smells etc. But everytime I slept on it I had bad throat and nose pain. My gf had no symptoms. I figured it was probably allergies and would take care of it later. Little did I know I was poisoning myself every night.

Over the course of a month and a half I slowly got sensitized to the mycotoxin. I also had lots of nosebleeds and ear pain during this time but didn’t connect the dots. Then in July, shit really hit the fan and my toxic bucket overloaded - I started wheezing, got heart palpitations, throat pain, chills, very bad muscle weakness to the point I couldn’t go up stairs and could barely hold my phone. I thought it was covid as I’m unvaxxed but the test was negative. Around this time I realized it was the mattress causing the issues and got rid of it immediately. The bad muscle weakness and wheezing went away, but over a few weeks I started getting new symptoms - stomach cramping, nausea, ataxia, was salivating like crazy, almost drooling. Strange taste in my mouth. I then started getting an intense feeling of dread/impending doom, like something really bad was going to happen to me soon, but it was without any real anxiety or depression really. Just a feeling of being in danger and really strong too. I thought I was going to die. It was very different from pfs anxiety.

I think it was some kind of neuro-inflammation similar to what Lyme patients can get. Mycotoxins and the poisons from the Lyme bacteria both cause a similar inflammatory cascade in the body.

My gf also spent a few weeks in a hospital during this time due to several serious infections which I think might be connected as mycotoxins suppress the immune system (for example, the immune suppressing drug CellCept is a mycotoxin derivative).

I ended up having to flee to a hotel as I noticed the symptoms would get much better when away from my apartment. While at the hotel I figured my symptoms were most likely due to T2 mycotoxin poisoning which is a highly toxic compound. Sucks that I can’t sue the fucker who sold me this shit.

This stuff is really noxious and sticks to everything like hair, clothes and belongings and follows you everywhere so I had to get all of my stuff professionally cleaned which was really expensive. And had to replace some things as well. Still have many of my old belongings in a rented storage place and I get convulsions if I go there for longer than a few minutes. Seems like I’m permanently sensitized to this garbage. All in all, a massive fiasco, right after I recovered from PFS.

I then fasted on water for 14 days to get the toxins out of my system, and felt like a whole new person afterwards. Completely fixed the poisoning symptoms as well as gut issues I had even pre fin. It was 14 days on water + a week of refeeding. Got super skinny but it was worth recovering from the symptoms I had.

After my fast I just lived healthily for six months or so but eventually slipped back into a shitty diet and alcohol every once in a while - though I was still exercising when I could. Ran a prohormone cycle in the summer and got super lean despite the bad diet.

It was about a month ago that I really got back into the protocol full force, and I truly feel amazing again. I love it. The confidence and overall feeling of vitality is great. I’m only using 7 herbs at the moment though, will increase over time.

So yeah, I’d say I’m doing great right now despite the setbacks last year. PFS is a distant memory at this point. I talk so several guys from here on Discord and elsewhere, and talking to them really brings back the awful memories of PFS. Thankfully I’ve mostly forgotten the horrors of it. Feel great everyday now. I also started another new relationship recently. Living a normal life, feels better than ever after the horrors of finasteride.

Anyways, bit of a rambling post but wanted to write something as the forum’s really quiet these days. Happy healing to all of you and feel free to DM me for advice if needed.

[LetsGo]

Congrats, and thanks for checking in! I’m glad to hear that you fully recovered from the mold as well, the water fast was a smart move.

[Zerolibido]

This kid full.of bulkshit man
Was fucking after two.months