6-Month Post Crash Bloodwork - Please Advise

[DKnighten]

I had my follow-up 6 month bloodwork taken after crashing from a single 1mg pill.. Here are the results:
Cortisol - AM (fasted): 23.9 (6.2-19.4)
Estrone: 71 (15-65)
Total Estrogens: 126 (40-115)
Growth Hormone: <0,1 (0.0-10.0)
Estradiol, Sensitive: 26.1 (8.0-35.0)
Vitamin D: 56.0 (30.0-100)
IGF1: 223 (115-355)
DHT: 55 (30-85)
Free Testosterone: 16.5 (9.3-26.5)
Testosterone, Serum: 869 (264-916)
FSH: 2.4 (1.5-12.4)
LH: 8.2 (1.7-8.6)
Free Thyroxine Index: 1.7 (1.2-4.9)
T3 Uptake: 27 (24-39)
Thyroxine (T4): 6.4 (4.5-12.0)
TSH: 2.450 (0.450-4.500)

I understand that my estrogen and cortisol are quite high, which would explain my muscle wastage and why I totally feel like shit. Is there any input you guys have on this? I’ve been referred to an endocrinologist. Taking the time to respond and let me know any advise is much appreciated. I'm broken up about these results, as I know they are quite bad..

[jacknap]

yeah bloods don't show pfs because it's probably a neurological imbalance most likely. go on cdsnuts website totalmaleoptimization and read maxout/cdnuts posts and you'll see your concerns have been talked about many times over

my bloods looked normal when I crashed as well besides super high cortisol/shbg

[DefRecover]

Pretty similar to mine too actually... I think we just need to get into a cleanse and get on with it. None of the bloods, tests, doctors, etc I have seen have done anything much for me. This is something we did to ourselves and need to fix ourselves it seems...

[Maxout777]

Blood tests for cortisol are worthless, in my opinion. I would’ve done the urine panel if I was interested in cortisol results. I had high cortisol (over the range) on my first blood test during PFS if that makes you feel any better.

But honestly, none of that really matters. You have high range T, which is mainly converting to E, and not DHT, which is to be expected with PFS. Nothing shocking here.

[DKnighten]

Hey Max. just saw your reply on here. No need to reply to my PM then. Should I bother following up with an endocrinologist? Would an Estrogen blocker help in this situation? I have to get moved this weekend and then start the juice feasting.

[RickTheRuler]

No doctors. The answer to every problem is the Protocol + consistency + Time..

Ugh no offense but i loathe seeing bloods. It just puts me back to last year when I was confused & id obsessively look at peoples numbers & try to piece things together like a mad scientist.

The answer to pfs & most male problems even outside of pfs it is the protocol + Time.. living healthily with consistence is the answer.. the epiphany here is that I truly believe our medical system does not want the population to know that it really is as simple as this. your giving it all it needs & then nature is doing its job Which is to constantly self correct..you don’t need a medical intervention, & that’s what they hate cause they can’t prescribe you anything.. they don’t want to solve the root, they just want to manage symptoms with meds that keep you on them forever..again, the medical system is not ALL bad, but most (not all) issues can be reversed....
most pfs guys go the medical route first only to realize it does not work.. We are here to tell you it doesn’t.. save your time, energy, and money bro..

CD please go on a rant about doctors/pharmaceutical industry .. I’m sure your way beyond that point but it’s nice to see you express your own frustrations with the whole thing in a more articulate way.


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[Maxout777]

Hey Max. just saw your reply on here. No need to reply to my PM then. Should I bother following up with an endocrinologist? Would an Estrogen blocker help in this situation? I have to get moved this weekend and then start the juice feasting.

Do I think it would help? No. Hurt? Maybe.

I’m assuming your estrogen is high right now to overcompensate for an issue with your receptors, as well as issues with your 5AR activity, which is why it’s causing test to go the estrogen route instead of DHT. You might bring that blood level down, but most likely will only have a worsening effect because you will further upregulate your estrogen receptor.

I suggest doing nothing until you feast and then get started. You have knowledge of your baseline as it stands now, and tinkering with “patches” on your bucket currently full of holes isn’t going to make it hold anymore water.

[RickTheRuler]

Do I think it would help? No. Hurt? Maybe.

I’m assuming your estrogen is high right now to overcompensate for an issue with your receptors, as well as issues with your 5AR activity, which is why it’s causing test to go the estrogen route instead of DHT. You might bring that blood level down, but most likely will only have a worsening effect because you will further upregulate your estrogen receptor.

I suggest doing nothing until you feast and then get started. You have knowledge of your baseline as it stands now, and tinkering with “patches” on your bucket currently full of holes isn’t going to make it hold anymore water.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It’s just gonna be wack a mole with your endocrine system, which is not fun at all. Fuck with one thing, something else changes. That I can promise you, it’s a game of wack a mole where the CPU is undefeated. No one has won or will win.

Again, protocol brings all these things back into balance and raises your equilibrium as a WHOLE.. very SLOWLY. This is a more realistic, safer, more effective route. Just is.


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[DKnighten]

CD, do you have any input on this man? My body has changed so much, my muscles are soft now, it is like my body is feminizing. God damnit dude I only took 1 fucking pill 6 months ago.

[Maxout777]

CD, do you have any input on this man? My body has changed so much, my muscles are soft now, it is like my body is feminizing. God damnit dude I only took 1 fucking pill 6 months ago.

My man, I’m not trying to be a dick, but what do you want him to say?

You can recover from this. I had the SAME shit. Run the protocol and quit looking for reasons not to. It’s your mind fucked by PFS making you look for reasons to not do things.

Control your mind. Key to life.

[DKnighten]

In my bloodwork, my DHT seems to be about mid-range. Is that a good sign, or does it not matter? I would think that if the conversion was screwed up, the DHT levels would be low, right?

[DKnighten]

You had really high estrogen and feminizing characteristics of the body? I don't know where to fucking start dude. Most of the stuff I need to get running on the protocol, I can't afford right now. It suggests throwing away all the hygiene products I use and searching for natural ones, I can't even find half of the things. You're right, I am looking for ways around the protocol and there aren't any. It is just so much to process.

[Maxout777]

My man. Your blood work doesn’t matter. Your receptors are fucked up. As long as they are fucked up, your DHT can be 1000, and you’ll still have low DHT symptoms. Your estrogen can be high and have low estrogen symptoms.

Which symptoms exactly do you have that your saying are from high estrogen?

[DKnighten]

My muscles don't have a hard, dense appearance anymore. I've lost a lot of muscle mass, my veins actually look different, like the texture of the skin has changed. I'm accumulating more loose abdominal fat, and around the hips. The actual flexibility of my penis has changed too, it is way more flexible and not as firm. There has been a noticeable difference man.

[DKnighten]

If my receptors are damaged, how does simply doing the protocol help repair them? How will juice feasting and eating Paleo make me normal again? I'm just trying to understand man.

[Marquis]

If my receptors are damaged, how does simply doing the protocol help repair them? How will juice feasting and eating Paleo make me normal again? I'm just trying to understand man.

Obviously there is more to the protocol than simply juice feasting and eating paleo, but you might be surprised at some of the issues that simple lifestyle changes such as these can make. For me, a paleo diet alone alleviated the sciatica, nervous ticks and chronic depression that I'd been suffering from for years prior.

With regard to PFS, it's been proven in numerous studies (ones that aren’t focused around PFS) that the presence of androgens leads to the up-regulation of androgen receptors - essentially, the more androgens you have, the more sensitive to them you become - so it could be that raising your androgens in a manner that doesn't lead to suppression (as would occur with most forms of exogenous hormone supplementation) will lead to repopulation of the androgen receptors and thus re-sensitisation to the androgens’ effects.

But really, if you're looking for a rationalistic explanation of PFS and its cure, you won't find one. Most endocrinologists - supposedly the experts in this field - will deny that the condition even exists, and over on the site-that-shall-not-be-named, decades of collective man-hours have gone into blind speculation and attempts to interpret myriad contradictory blood tests, with nothing to show for it.

On paper, this condition doesn’t exist; but as we all know, it sure as hell does in practice - the only proof of it is in our symptoms, ergo the cure to it won’t be found in studies or bloodwork, but rather in the reports of what’s worked for other men to relieve those symptoms. The way I see it, we didn’t need to understand exactly how PFS works in order to be affected by it; similarly, we don’t need to understand exactly how the protocol works in order for it to work its magic.

[Maxout777]

Obviously there is more to the protocol than simply juice feasting and eating paleo, but you might be surprised at some of the issues that simple lifestyle changes such as these can make. For me, a paleo diet alone alleviated the sciatica, nervous ticks and chronic depression that I'd been suffering from for years prior.

With regard to PFS, it's been proven in numerous studies (ones that aren’t focused around PFS) that the presence of androgens leads to the up-regulation of androgen receptors - essentially, the more androgens you have, the more sensitive to them you become - so it could be that raising your androgens in a manner that doesn't lead to suppression (as would occur with most forms of exogenous hormone supplementation) will lead to repopulation of the androgen receptors and thus re-sensitisation to the androgens’ effects.

But really, if you're looking for a rationalistic explanation of PFS and its cure, you won't find one. Most endocrinologists - supposedly the experts in this field - will deny that the condition even exists, and over on the site-that-shall-not-be-named, decades of collective man-hours have gone into blind speculation and attempts to interpret myriad contradictory blood tests, with nothing to show for it.

On paper, this condition doesn’t exist; but as we all know, it sure as hell does in practice - the only proof of it is in our symptoms, ergo the cure to it won’t be found in studies or bloodwork, but rather in the reports of what’s worked for other men to relieve those symptoms. The way I see it, we didn’t need to understand exactly how PFS works in order to be affected by it; similarly, we don’t need to understand exactly how the protocol works in order for it to work its magic.

Excellent answer my man. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

[RickTheRuler]

Obviously there is more to the protocol than simply juice feasting and eating paleo, but you might be surprised at some of the issues that simple lifestyle changes such as these can make. For me, a paleo diet alone alleviated the sciatica, nervous ticks and chronic depression that I'd been suffering from for years prior.

With regard to PFS, it's been proven in numerous studies (ones that aren’t focused around PFS) that the presence of androgens leads to the up-regulation of androgen receptors - essentially, the more androgens you have, the more sensitive to them you become - so it could be that raising your androgens in a manner that doesn't lead to suppression (as would occur with most forms of exogenous hormone supplementation) will lead to repopulation of the androgen receptors and thus re-sensitisation to the androgens’ effects.

But really, if you're looking for a rationalistic explanation of PFS and its cure, you won't find one. Most endocrinologists - supposedly the experts in this field - will deny that the condition even exists, and over on the site-that-shall-not-be-named, decades of collective man-hours have gone into blind speculation and attempts to interpret myriad contradictory blood tests, with nothing to show for it.

On paper, this condition doesn’t exist; but as we all know, it sure as hell does in practice - the only proof of it is in our symptoms, ergo the cure to it won’t be found in studies or bloodwork, but rather in the reports of what’s worked for other men to relieve those symptoms. The way I see it, we didn’t need to understand exactly how PFS works in order to be affected by it; similarly, we don’t need to understand exactly how the protocol works in order for it to work its magic.

That other site is the worst. I’m so thankful that I did not waste any time or had speculation of anything, or tried something stupid..

I call that phase where your exercising the medical route only to be let down time and time again the “Limbo” phase... CD was there for 3 years, has to be torturous and frustrating ..... 5 days later after my crash I was already water fasting. I didn’t question anything. I was all in from day 1. everything about the protocol made sense and this site had the most testimonials, along with you seeing other people improve or on the way.. that was all I needed.. literally on this day last year I was a MESSSSSS.


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[jacknap]

If my receptors are damaged, how does simply doing the protocol help repair them? How will juice feasting and eating Paleo make me normal again? I'm just trying to understand man.

they're not damaged no one used those words. they're just like out of wack and the protocol puts you back into balance. kinda like if you take too much coffee then you go through withdrawals and your energy is worse then before you ever started ranking coffee just with pfs it takes longer (the protocol)

[DKnighten]

5 days later after my crash I was already water fasting.

Is filtered water recommended? Any specific kind of filter? Asking because it is going to be a little while before I have the funds for the blender and stuff needed for the juice feast, if i'm doing it right.

[Maxout777]

Is filtered water recommended? Any specific kind of filter? Asking because it is going to be a little while before I have the funds for the blender and stuff needed for the juice feast, if i'm doing it right.

Filtered water, spring water - I would almost suggest a higher quality spring water like Fiji, Avian, Icelandic, etc.... you’ll appreciate the natural electrolytes in the spring water during your fast.

[DKnighten]

My man. Your blood work doesn’t matter. Your receptors are fucked up. As long as they are fucked up, your DHT can be 1000, and you’ll still have low DHT symptoms. Your estrogen can be high and have low estrogen symptoms.

Which symptoms exactly do you have that your saying are from high estrogen?

Which supplement was it on the protocol that is great at clearing up excess Estrogen? I saw CD talk about it in a post but I cannot find it. It will be another week or so until I can do my juice feast but I want to get some of these herbs ordered as soon as possible. I need to lower my Estrogen.

[xxaleksi]

Which supplement was it on the protocol that is great at clearing up excess Estrogen? I saw CD talk about it in a post but I cannot find it. It will be another week or so until I can do my juice feast but I want to get some of these herbs ordered as soon as possible. I need to lower my Estrogen.

It's pine pollen if I remember correctly.

[Maxout777]

Which supplement was it on the protocol that is great at clearing up excess Estrogen? I saw CD talk about it in a post but I cannot find it. It will be another week or so until I can do my juice feast but I want to get some of these herbs ordered as soon as possible. I need to lower my Estrogen.

Stop attempting to fix a systematic problem with a one-by-one approach. You're going to make yourself worse. Do the full thing when you can.

[Cdsnuts]

Stop attempting to fix a systematic problem with a one-by-one approach. You're going to make yourself worse. Do the full thing when you can.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^

No wack-a-mole. Clean slate.