Dknighten's Road To Recovery

[DKnighten]

I've reached out to many of you for advice on undertaking the protocol. I've suffered for over 7 months now and have progressively gotten worse, and I am jumping in with both feet. I've had changes to my skin tissue, complete muscle wastage, and early signs of gynocemastia. None of my clothes fit anymore and my nipples constantly burn and have enlarged. I have the crushing 24/7 brain fog, like I'm viewing the world through a window. When I lift weights, I have a rebound effect and end up losing more muscle. I am at the lowest point in my life; I didn't know this place even existed. I'm doing the juice feast for 2 weeks hopefully and then refeeding raw for 3-4 days, then adding in paleo foods. It is so hard for me to organize or make sense of anything, and I am so destroyed by all of this. I've created this thread to hopefully add some rhyme & reason to what I'm doing and get help along the way. Lord knows I need all the help I can get.

Thanks guys,

Damon

[DefRecover]

Chin up, brother. I start my juice feast Saturday so am right here with you. We can beat this!

[Cdsnuts]

I've reached out to many of you for advice on undertaking the protocol. I've suffered for over 7 months now and have progressively gotten worse, and I am jumping in with both feet. I've had changes to my skin tissue, complete muscle wastage, and early signs of gynocemastia. None of my clothes fit anymore and my nipples constantly burn and have enlarged. I have the crushing 24/7 brain fog, like I'm viewing the world through a window. When I lift weights, I have a rebound effect and end up losing more muscle. I am at the lowest point in my life; I didn't know this place even existed. I'm doing the juice feast for 2 weeks hopefully and then refeeding raw for 3-4 days, then adding in paleo foods. It is so hard for me to organize or make sense of anything, and I am so destroyed by all of this. I've created this thread to hopefully add some rhyme & reason to what I'm doing and get help along the way. Lord knows I need all the help I can get.

Thanks guys,

Damon

Don't over exert yourself just yet.

Juice feast, refeed, Paleo.

Don't start hitting your muscles until about 3-4 weeks after you've been eating solids.

THEN, start with calithenics. So in otherwords, follow the directions on the site, to a T.

[DKnighten]

I spoke to you earlier. My story is much like yours until around 5-6 months in. I didn't believe recovery was possible at that point, did I mention that I was in the psych ward and was too weak to stand? Every second was a living hell, but changes can happen very suddenly. Just keep going and trust that it gets better. I've read plenty of stories from others who saw little improvement up until a year or so, then bam! life is worth living again. It doesn't sound like you're ready to lift weights yet though, I'd listen to your body on that one.

I'm glad to hear you're doing much better. Excellent. I don't know why I've been having so much trouble committing to this thing and just doing it. I guess after reading so many bad things and reactions off that forum, I've become paralyzed by fear almost, meanwhile I am just getting worse. I've just gotta do it. You said your story was similar, did you experience fundamental changes to your body? I'm gonna try to lookup your older posts.

[jacknap]

I'm glad to hear you're doing much better. Excellent. I don't know why I've been having so much trouble committing to this thing and just doing it. I guess after reading so many bad things and reactions off that forum, I've become paralyzed by fear almost, meanwhile I am just getting worse. I've just gotta do it. You said your story was similar, did you experience fundamental changes to your body? I'm gonna try to lookup your older posts.

hardest part is the 3 months. taking in all the info, cleansing and build back up. after that you'll get some gains and steady improvement. I had the brain fog as well where I had the memory of a goldfish. that got better. read cdnuts posts here on backlog and his totalmaleoptimization site until you know it like that back of your hand. also the guy starting juice feast with you might be a good person to bounce back off of. when I was in my darkest days having someone who crashed around same time or a bit further down in recovery but had a good attitue was really good. also most ppl were useless but at least 2 of my friends were very useful so im glad i reached out to many and found which ones were awesome. i now always bounce back ideas from them.

[DKnighten]

hardest part is the 3 months. taking in all the info, cleansing and build back up. after that you'll get some gains and steady improvement. I had the brain fog as well where I had the memory of a goldfish. that got better. read cdnuts posts here on backlog and his totalmaleoptimization site until you know it like that back of your hand. also the guy starting juice feast with you might be a good person to bounce back off of. when I was in my darkest days having someone who crashed around same time or a bit further down in recovery but had a good attitue was really good. also most ppl were useless but at least 2 of my friends were very useful so im glad i reached out to many and found which ones were awesome. i now always bounce back ideas from them.

What about fundamental tissue changes though? I've had changes to my skin and how my actual veins look, like my skin has a grayer tint and I'm holding more subcutaneous fluid. Some of the changes I don't even know how to explain.

[DKnighten]

I'm starting the juice feast tomorrow, but guys my body composition has fundamentally changed. My skin is looser and much softer now, like a woman's. Everytime I get up from a chair or out of bed, there's an imprint on the back of my legs. I imagine I'm aromatizing testosterone into Estrogen at a constant rate..I honestly feel like some damage has been done to my body that is not reversible. The longer this continues, the more damage will be done. Nobody here recommends seeing an endocrinologist and trying at least a small dose of aromatase inhibitor?

[jacknap]

I'm starting the juice feast tomorrow, but guys my body composition has fundamentally changed. My skin is looser and much softer now, like a woman's. Everytime I get up from a chair or out of bed, there's an imprint on the back of my legs. I imagine I'm aromatizing testosterone into Estrogen at a constant rate..I honestly feel like some damage has been done to my body that is not reversible. The longer this continues, the more damage will be done. Nobody here recommends seeing an endocrinologist and trying at least a small dose of aromatase inhibitor?

I'm not sure dude it seems like you're not even taking the advice that's offered as the things you're thinking and asking have been covered dozens of times already.

[DKnighten]

I don't know how to sift through this forum for answers on questions that I have.

[DKnighten]

For the juice feast, how much water do I need to be adding, just the 4 oz at the start? I started this morning and probably made 1 quart total after a pound of celery, a cucumber, a third of a tub of mixed greens, an apple, and some strawberries. It makes a huge mess and I underestimated the feast lol.

[DKnighten]

I'm not sure dude it seems like you're not even taking the advice that's offered as the things you're thinking and asking have been covered dozens of times already.

How is the best way to sift through the forum when I have a question on a topic?

[DKnighten]

Day 3 of Juice feasting. I've caved already just a couple times and eaten a tablespoon of raw, organic peanut butter. I've already lost a shit ton of weight lol, i'm at 131 lbs now in the mornings. Going to go through until day 7 though.

[Cdsnuts]

Day 3 of Juice feasting. I've caved already just a couple times and eaten a tablespoon of raw, organic peanut butter. I've already lost a shit ton of weight lol, i'm at 131 lbs now in the mornings. Going to go through until day 7 though.

It's not about the weight.

[DKnighten]

I did a juice feast for 4 days and started back with some cruciferous veggies, a little broth and some salads. The feast was a little more expensive than I planned, I need to go longer or perhaps a water fast. My body is in a very unstable state, skin and muscles burn all over, dead twitching muscles and I have reactions to many foods, brain fog feels like i'm outside of myself often. I've tried the ashwagandha and maca and it seems I react to those harshly. It is hard to tell what I react to and don't, as I feel very fucked up most of the time. Keeping it anti inflammatory paleo for the time being.

Easing into the cold showers. I am extremely cold all of the time unless I am outside in the sun. Limbs are always freezing

Already have replaced all personal care products with natural options

Working on meditation, I am not able to afford many of the mainstream meditation products, if anyone has any suggestions on Youtube, etc it'd be helpful!

Thanks guys.

[Bankai9000]

InsightTimer is a free app and absolutely amazing. Prefer it over headspace even. Otherwise just search "guided meditation" on yt if you're new to it.
After you do one full 15s cold shower it will get easier.^^ Driving each year to a festival where you have either only icecold water or have to wait 8 hours for a warm shower. After just doing it twice I was used to cold showers for life XD

[Cdsnuts]

I did a juice feast for 4 days and started back with some cruciferous veggies, a little broth and some salads. The feast was a little more expensive than I planned, I need to go longer or perhaps a water fast. My body is in a very unstable state, skin and muscles burn all over, dead twitching muscles and I have reactions to many foods, brain fog feels like i'm outside of myself often. I've tried the ashwagandha and maca and it seems I react to those harshly. It is hard to tell what I react to and don't, as I feel very fucked up most of the time. Keeping it anti inflammatory paleo for the time being.

Easing into the cold showers. I am extremely cold all of the time unless I am outside in the sun. Limbs are always freezing

Already have replaced all personal care products with natural options

Working on meditation, I am not able to afford many of the mainstream meditation products, if anyone has any suggestions on Youtube, etc it'd be helpful!

Thanks guys.

Because of your current state you need a cleanse of some length more so then someone who isn't in your state. Four days isn't Enough.

My man. I'm really not trying to be a prick here, but you're just not following instructions......at all. You're complaining about how horrible things are and yet you have at your finger tips the knowledge to do something about it, and you're simply not giving it your all.

I'm not a very compassionate person by nature, admittedly, but even for those who are, there is an end to such compassion when help is given freely and is either ignored or argued against.

[DKnighten]

Calling out to CD and other Forum vets who have been around the battle for quite some time. I've had a burning question that I have wanted to ask on here but have refrained from doing so due to possible backlash, but I gotta get it answered if that's possible. How often do you come across PFS sufferers who have the rubber pale skin across the whole body? Like complete softening and change of the body, almost like i'm wearing a neoprene suit or something. Since I took the single 1mg pill back last October, it's like something switched off and I gradually lost strength and my skin started to soften and wrinkle. Now, it's full blown aged, stretchy, rubber for skin on my body. It's uncomfortable to be in, like I'm actually trapped inside my skin. My complexion has also changed and resembles more of a pale corpse. It's pretty horrific. I know it gets me absolutely nowhere to start comparing symptoms and measuring dicks, but I honestly do want to know, as these types of changes are just absurd man...
If anybody has any input on this, please let a brother know. If I gotta feel a little heat for posting this, I understand that too.

Thank you.

[Maxout777]

Calling out to CD and other Forum vets who have been around the battle for quite some time. I've had a burning question that I have wanted to ask on here but have refrained from doing so due to possible backlash, but I gotta get it answered if that's possible. How often do you come across PFS sufferers who have the rubber pale skin across the whole body? Like complete softening and change of the body, almost like i'm wearing a neoprene suit or something. Since I took the single 1mg pill back last October, it's like something switched off and I gradually lost strength and my skin started to soften and wrinkle. Now, it's full blown aged, stretchy, rubber for skin on my body. It's uncomfortable to be in, like I'm actually trapped inside my skin. My complexion has also changed and resembles more of a pale corpse. It's pretty horrific. I know it gets me absolutely nowhere to start comparing symptoms and measuring dicks, but I honestly do want to know, as these types of changes are just absurd man...
If anybody has any input on this, please let a brother know. If I gotta feel a little heat for posting this, I understand that too.

Thank you.

Your skin is a direct reflection of your hormonal and overall health. You’re currently not healthy in either category, so your skin is reflecting that. Mine was very pale at first and I could scratch my skin and not feel much. It was pretty disturbing, but you got to press on. This is something that has resolved itself - I now look younger than I did before PFS. Much younger than my friends of the same age with great skin and facial complexion.

[Bankai9000]

How about me lol

[xxaleksi]

Calling out to CD and other Forum vets who have been around the battle for quite some time. I've had a burning question that I have wanted to ask on here but have refrained from doing so due to possible backlash, but I gotta get it answered if that's possible. How often do you come across PFS sufferers who have the rubber pale skin across the whole body? Like complete softening and change of the body, almost like i'm wearing a neoprene suit or something. Since I took the single 1mg pill back last October, it's like something switched off and I gradually lost strength and my skin started to soften and wrinkle. Now, it's full blown aged, stretchy, rubber for skin on my body. It's uncomfortable to be in, like I'm actually trapped inside my skin. My complexion has also changed and resembles more of a pale corpse. It's pretty horrific. I know it gets me absolutely nowhere to start comparing symptoms and measuring dicks, but I honestly do want to know, as these types of changes are just absurd man...
If anybody has any input on this, please let a brother know. If I gotta feel a little heat for posting this, I understand that too.

Thank you.

Yeah I'm not a forum vet or anything but I just found it easier to not focus on individual symptoms and just focus on the long term. The improvements are so slow that it's easy to drive yourself crazy by constantly checking symptoms. I only notice I'm getting better when I compare myself now to how I was say, two or three months ago.

And yeah I have skin changes too, it's a lot grayer and more feminine. It's a bit better now than a few months ago.

[Cdsnuts]

Calling out to CD and other Forum vets who have been around the battle for quite some time. I've had a burning question that I have wanted to ask on here but have refrained from doing so due to possible backlash, but I gotta get it answered if that's possible. How often do you come across PFS sufferers who have the rubber pale skin across the whole body? Like complete softening and change of the body, almost like i'm wearing a neoprene suit or something. Since I took the single 1mg pill back last October, it's like something switched off and I gradually lost strength and my skin started to soften and wrinkle. Now, it's full blown aged, stretchy, rubber for skin on my body. It's uncomfortable to be in, like I'm actually trapped inside my skin. My complexion has also changed and resembles more of a pale corpse. It's pretty horrific. I know it gets me absolutely nowhere to start comparing symptoms and measuring dicks, but I honestly do want to know, as these types of changes are just absurd man...
If anybody has any input on this, please let a brother know. If I gotta feel a little heat for posting this, I understand that too.

Thank you.

As Maxout mentioned, your skin will heal and change as your overall condition gets better. Stick to the plan and it will all work itself out over time.

[Yus]

Your skin is a direct reflection of your hormonal and overall health. You’re currently not healthy in either category, so your skin is reflecting that. Mine was very pale at first and I could scratch my skin and not feel much. It was pretty disturbing, but you got to press on. This is something that has resolved itself - I now look younger than I did before PFS. Much younger than my friends of the same age with great skin and facial complexion.

Oh man, i had this too! I couldn't feel showers, itch, nor being ticklish, this slowly resolved and keeps on improving. On my second week after crashing i did a full sun-bathe and had to endure torturous days of bad sleeping due to my skin completely rashing out, not being able to withstand the exposure. Took a whole week for the redness and pain to subside.

[Cdsnuts]

Oh man, i had this too! I couldn't feel showers, itch, nor being ticklish, this slowly resolved and keeps on improving. On my second week after crashing i did a full sun-bathe and had to endure torturous days of bad sleeping due to my skin completely rashing out, not being able to withstand the exposure. Took a whole week for the redness and pain to subside.

When I was in the beginning and pretty bad, I went out surfing. The water was cold and everyone else had on wetsuits....I couldn't feel the cold water so I went in without one. Everyone was looking at me like a freak. That day, it was a super power, not a hindrance. One of the only times it came in handy.

[DKnighten]

Your skin is a direct reflection of your hormonal and overall health. You’re currently not healthy in either category, so your skin is reflecting that. Mine was very pale at first and I could scratch my skin and not feel much. It was pretty disturbing, but you got to press on. This is something that has resolved itself - I now look younger than I did before PFS. Much younger than my friends of the same age with great skin and facial complexion.

Max, how hard was it for you to give up the dip (chew) during PFS? This, combined with sugar addiction is really kicking my ass on it's own. It's like something is damaged in my brain where I have to have something there to comfort me. It was like that before, but it's amplified HARDCORE...

[DKnighten]

Hey guys, are there any products recommended for extremely dry and coarse hair? My hair does not produce any oil whatsoever. It has the texture of straw. I use an all-natural keratin moisturizing conditioner daily. Does anything help with this?

[Maxout777]

Max, how hard was it for you to give up the dip (chew) during PFS? This, combined with sugar addiction is really kicking my ass on it's own. It's like something is damaged in my brain where I have to have something there to comfort me. It was like that before, but it's amplified HARDCORE...

Sorry I just now see this - but I never gave it up entirely until long after PFS. I used it as my “vice” during PFS cause it was far less harmful at the time than alcohol.

[DKnighten]

Thanks for the response Max and CD. I've decided to take a 12-month medical leave from school to go live with my mom and focus on healing. I've tried to push through it and half-ass the protocol with 24-hour water fasts and still trying to exercise, and all I'm doing is getting worse. I know nothing happens until I complete the 7 day fast or feast so I will check back in after that is done.

[DKnighten]

Has anyone here ever heard of/experienced loss of color to the skin all over the body and fluid retention? My thighs have swelled to over twice their normal size now and the muscles are just completely dead. All of my skin is elastic and rubbery. None of this has improved. I've only fasted 3 days and I am doing my extended fast soon. Taking a medical leave from school.

[Turnover25]

Has anyone here ever heard of/experienced loss of color to the skin all over the body and fluid retention? My thighs have swelled to over twice their normal size now and the muscles are just completely dead. All of my skin is elastic and rubbery. None of this has improved. I've only fasted 3 days and I am doing my extended fast soon. Taking a medical leave from school.

Knock out that fast and get to work bud. I’ve seen a ton of people with symptoms similar to yours. Just look in the beginning of your thread there was like 3 dudes that said they experienced something similar. I don’t think the severity of it matters, it’s nothing that won’t be fixed.

How much of the protocol are you doing? Just do the fast, rebuild and go. I recommend a water fast personally, I did a week of water and a week of juice. Juice feast gave me crippling anxiety and was a fuck load of work, water fast wasn’t any work, and gave me clarity. It’s not easy but hey. That medical leave will be perfect for your fast or feast. Take the time to meditate and spend time in the sunshine. You’re going to enjoy the fast, trust me.

My life sucked bad last year, I did a water fast and rebuilt on the program, it took about 2 months for my mindset to be nice and stable, then living with the symptoms wasn’t as bad anymore. Now stuff is starting to go away, 8 months later.

You’re fine dude, no reason to ask if people experience this and that. You’re gonna recover now just get to work.

[DKnighten]

Knock out that fast and get to work bud. I’ve seen a ton of people with symptoms similar to yours. Just look in the beginning of your thread there was like 3 dudes that said they experienced something similar. I don’t think the severity of it matters, it’s nothing that won’t be fixed.

How much of the protocol are you doing? Just do the fast, rebuild and go. I recommend a water fast personally, I did a week of water and a week of juice. Juice feast gave me crippling anxiety and was a fuck load of work, water fast wasn’t any work, and gave me clarity. It’s not easy but hey. That medical leave will be perfect for your fast or feast. Take the time to meditate and spend time in the sunshine. You’re going to enjoy the fast, trust me.

My life sucked bad last year, I did a water fast and rebuilt on the program, it took about 2 months for my mindset to be nice and stable, then living with the symptoms wasn’t as bad anymore. Now stuff is starting to go away, 8 months later.

You’re fine dude, no reason to ask if people experience this and that. You’re gonna recover now just get to work.

Thanks for the response man. I have yet to do the full protocol. I'm starting it with a fast, as long as I can go. I've been saying it for a while but it has taken this long to get a medical leave approved and get the fuck out of this graduate program.

And I'm only asking because I have seen very few that have the fluid retention and total skin changes I'm talking about. It's like Finasteride triggered Ehlers Danlos disease and broke my lymphatic system. If you've seen a ton of guys with similar symptoms, I must have missed them.

[Turnover25]

Thanks for the response man. I have yet to do the full protocol. I'm starting it with a fast, as long as I can go. I've been saying it for a while but it has taken this long to get a medical leave approved and get the fuck out of this graduate program.

And I'm only asking because I have seen very few that have the fluid retention and total skin changes I'm talking about. It's like Finasteride triggered Ehlers Danlos disease and broke my lymphatic system. If you've seen a ton of guys with similar symptoms, I must have missed them.

What is so bad about the graduate program if you don't mind me asking? I had issues with school such as bad anxiety while studying, and kinda like an information overload where I got panic attacks while trying to remember stuff. Sound kinda similar?

The fluid retention I've seen Jacknap talk about how he walked around with a moonface from water retention, I also had water retention and it comes and goes. Maxout and CD and some other guys said the same stuff about skin where they couldn't feel it or it was soft and rubbery I think, someone said something about having imprints in their legs after getting out of chairs, but I don't remember where I saw that.

Bottom line is I really don't think you're a special case man, if you could trade places with me you'd see how fucked I am/was too, especially mentally. I just don't really play it up on the forum because this is a place of positivity. I think your symptoms will go away once you get to work. I don't think your lymphatic system is broken man, just like I don't think I have brain damage. This month out of nowhere my memory started flickering on and off randomly. I did my fast almost 8 months ago and started the herbs in January.

[DKnighten]

What is so bad about the graduate program if you don't mind me asking? I had issues with school such as bad anxiety while studying, and kinda like an information overload where I got panic attacks while trying to remember stuff. Sound kinda similar?

The fluid retention I've seen Jacknap talk about how he walked around with a moonface from water retention, I also had water retention and it comes and goes. Maxout and CD and some other guys said the same stuff about skin where they couldn't feel it or it was soft and rubbery I think, someone said something about having imprints in their legs after getting out of chairs, but I don't remember where I saw that.

Bottom line is I really don't think you're a special case man, if you could trade places with me you'd see how fucked I am/was too, especially mentally. I just don't really play it up on the forum because this is a place of positivity. I think your symptoms will go away once you get to work. I don't think your lymphatic system is broken man, just like I don't think I have brain damage. This month out of nowhere my memory started flickering on and off randomly. I did my fast almost 8 months ago and started the herbs in January.

The anxiety and cognitive issues certainly make it hard, CD describes it as thinking through a blanket and that's pretty accurate. It's like looking out through a dull window constantly. But what makes it unbearable is not being able to feel my muscles and my body swelling. Sitting in a chair or standing is like being supported by rubber. All I feel is the contact of my joints with the ground. Like my muscles are not even online. Even my feet and hands are puffy & my skin is thin as shit everywhere. I'm not doubting your symptoms or trying to say that I need some kind of extra attention or whatever. I have just always been in tremendous shape my whole life and now a simple walk around the block is like walking in an obese dead body. In my previous post I said I wouldn't update until after the fast was underway or completed and I should've stuck to that. The veterans have stated that the pathway for recovery is the same for everyone affected by Finasteride and I should just trust that. There's honestly nothing else I can do.

I am very glad to hear that your situation is improving man.

[Cdsnuts]

The veterans have stated that the pathway for recovery is the same for everyone affected by Finasteride and I should just trust that. There's honestly nothing else I can do.

I am very glad to hear that your situation is improving man.

Correct, and correct. The blind faithers are the quickest to recover.....always. And the main reason why? Not just because they are doing what is laid out for them, moreso they are not getting in their own way by thinking they can change this or tweak that, etc.

Just do it man. The sooner, the better.

[DKnighten]

I'm ordering my herb rotation and I noticed that the Rhodiola link is down and I'm not able to find it on the LEH website. Can anyone recommend a quality Rhodiola supplement? Thanks in advance.

[DKnighten]

Cdsnuts
CD, I had some questions i've been wanting to ask you & anybody else willing to chime in about general symptoms with PFS. I got fucked hard by a single pill I took over 2 and a half years ago and it led to basically everything about my body changing. Chatted with you in the WhatsApp group and you recommended for me to post my questions here:

Did your actual skin texture and complexion change when you got PFS?
Within days of taking that first pill, I felt something shut off inside of my body. All of my muscles were instantly weak, foreign, and shaky. All of my skin gradually got very rubbery, elastic, thin, etc. Just like an old guy. It is like I lost the texture of my skin and my body got very soft. Prior to PFS, I was always very muscular, dense, lean, and vascular. All of my veins disappeared, I lost all of my muscles, the muscles got very soft, and my skin aged. This hasn't improved. I also started gaining weird, numb fat on my thighs and around my stomach, my hands got puffy, and basically all of my body is like something shut off. I can take and pull my skin anywhere on my body and it's stretchy, pale, does not tan, and has very little sensation anywhere.

During your recovery, was there a major turning point where you went from seeing zero improvement for an extended period of time to beginning to notice improvement in your symptoms?
I've seen you describe your first water fast as a "hail mary". Was this because you tried the waiting game, took medicines, supplements, etc. without seeing improvement? How long was it after you stopped taking Finasteride did you start thinking that just time wasn't going to heal you? Were the first improvements you ever experienced during your fast? and what were they?

The Crash
I never experienced a "crash" like many guys do who get PFS. I took a single pill and by the next morning it was like my brain was completely empty. My vision was so screwed that it looked like staring through a fishbowl, it was like being inside of a dream. I couldn't feel my body or anything. This just got worse as more time went by, I noticed my hair was getting more dry, my skin was starting to stop producing oil and start having this scaly, pale texture, and I just gradually kept losing muscle and my body was becoming more foreign. I couldn't understand what I was reading or looking at, my body odor started to smell like cat piss, etc. That was 2 and a half years ago. Now it feels like I've lost so many things that I probably can't ever get back. It just seems like many guys have this initial crash when they take the drug or come off the drug where things go to shit all at once and then gradually improve from there. In my case, it took like over a year and a half for me to even reach a baseline of PFS, it that makes sense. What are your thoughts on this?


Diet-wise, what were your personal go-to's for meal preparations and snacks?
I posted a thread about general food tips and I've taken note of most of the recipes posted here (like the goat kefir w/ collagen & berries, soup, etc), but I wanted to ask during your journey with PFS, were there certain recipes and combinations that you went to pretty often, did you keep it simple? Asking because i've just been kind of running low on ideas lately.

Thanks in advance.

[Queens1984]

Cdsnuts
CD, I had some questions i've been wanting to ask you & anybody else willing to chime in about general symptoms with PFS. I got fucked hard by a single pill I took over 2 and a half years ago and it led to basically everything about my body changing. Chatted with you in the WhatsApp group and you recommended for me to post my questions here:

Did your actual skin texture and complexion change when you got PFS?
Within days of taking that first pill, I felt something shut off inside of my body. All of my muscles were instantly weak, foreign, and shaky. All of my skin gradually got very rubbery, elastic, thin, etc. Just like an old guy. It is like I lost the texture of my skin and my body got very soft. Prior to PFS, I was always very muscular, dense, lean, and vascular. All of my veins disappeared, I lost all of my muscles, the muscles got very soft, and my skin aged. This hasn't improved. I also started gaining weird, numb fat on my thighs and around my stomach, my hands got puffy, and basically all of my body is like something shut off. I can take and pull my skin anywhere on my body and it's stretchy, pale, does not tan, and has very little sensation anywhere.

During your recovery, was there a major turning point where you went from seeing zero improvement for an extended period of time to beginning to notice improvement in your symptoms?
I've seen you describe your first water fast as a "hail mary". Was this because you tried the waiting game, took medicines, supplements, etc. without seeing improvement? How long was it after you stopped taking Finasteride did you start thinking that just time wasn't going to heal you? Were the first improvements you ever experienced during your fast? and what were they?

The Crash
I never experienced a "crash" like many guys do who get PFS. I took a single pill and by the next morning it was like my brain was completely empty. My vision was so screwed that it looked like staring through a fishbowl, it was like being inside of a dream. I couldn't feel my body or anything. This just got worse as more time went by, I noticed my hair was getting more dry, my skin was starting to stop producing oil and start having this scaly, pale texture, and I just gradually kept losing muscle and my body was becoming more foreign. I couldn't understand what I was reading or looking at, my body odor started to smell like cat piss, etc. That was 2 and a half years ago. Now it feels like I've lost so many things that I probably can't ever get back. It just seems like many guys have this initial crash when they take the drug or come off the drug where things go to shit all at once and then gradually improve from there. In my case, it took like over a year and a half for me to even reach a baseline of PFS, it that makes sense. What are your thoughts on this?


Diet-wise, what were your personal go-to's for meal preparations and snacks?
I posted a thread about general food tips and I've taken note of most of the recipes posted here (like the goat kefir w/ collagen & berries, soup, etc), but I wanted to ask during your journey with PFS, were there certain recipes and combinations that you went to pretty often, did you keep it simple? Asking because i've just been kind of running low on ideas lately.

Thanks in advance. I remember my crash 2012. I woke up and had no Emotion. Told my friend he thought I was CRAZY. All
Your symptoms I have had and more. Your not alone brother

[Turnover25]

Cdsnuts
CD, I had some questions i've been wanting to ask you & anybody else willing to chime in about general symptoms with PFS. I got fucked hard by a single pill I took over 2 and a half years ago and it led to basically everything about my body changing. Chatted with you in the WhatsApp group and you recommended for me to post my questions here:

Did your actual skin texture and complexion change when you got PFS?
Within days of taking that first pill, I felt something shut off inside of my body. All of my muscles were instantly weak, foreign, and shaky. All of my skin gradually got very rubbery, elastic, thin, etc. Just like an old guy. It is like I lost the texture of my skin and my body got very soft. Prior to PFS, I was always very muscular, dense, lean, and vascular. All of my veins disappeared, I lost all of my muscles, the muscles got very soft, and my skin aged. This hasn't improved. I also started gaining weird, numb fat on my thighs and around my stomach, my hands got puffy, and basically all of my body is like something shut off. I can take and pull my skin anywhere on my body and it's stretchy, pale, does not tan, and has very little sensation anywhere.

During your recovery, was there a major turning point where you went from seeing zero improvement for an extended period of time to beginning to notice improvement in your symptoms?
I've seen you describe your first water fast as a "hail mary". Was this because you tried the waiting game, took medicines, supplements, etc. without seeing improvement? How long was it after you stopped taking Finasteride did you start thinking that just time wasn't going to heal you? Were the first improvements you ever experienced during your fast? and what were they? I also didn’t see improvement during my water/juice fast, I felt a million times worse during and after for a while.

The Crash
I never experienced a "crash" like many guys do who get PFS. I took a single pill and by the next morning it was like my brain was completely empty. My vision was so screwed that it looked like staring through a fishbowl, it was like being inside of a dream. I couldn't feel my body or anything. This just got worse as more time went by, I noticed my hair was getting more dry, my skin was starting to stop producing oil and start having this scaly, pale texture, and I just gradually kept losing muscle and my body was becoming more foreign. I couldn't understand what I was reading or looking at, my body odor started to smell like cat piss, etc. That was 2 and a half years ago. Now it feels like I've lost so many things that I probably can't ever get back. It just seems like many guys have this initial crash when they take the drug or come off the drug where things go to shit all at once and then gradually improve from there. In my case, it took like over a year and a half for me to even reach a baseline of PFS, it that makes sense. What are your thoughts on this?


Diet-wise, what were your personal go-to's for meal preparations and snacks?
I posted a thread about general food tips and I've taken note of most of the recipes posted here (like the goat kefir w/ collagen & berries, soup, etc), but I wanted to ask during your journey with PFS, were there certain recipes and combinations that you went to pretty often, did you keep it simple? Asking because i've just been kind of running low on ideas lately.

Thanks in advance.

1. Yes, skin was/is messed up. A lot of changes in skin, muscle, eyes, and veins. But my veins were opposite than yours where all the sudden they all bulged out of my body, especially in my head. Also varicose veins. I don’t really want to go into specifics because that isn’t what this forum is about.

2. Yes, it was recent, after suffering nearly 2 years. This shit takes time. I didn’t improve much until my 2nd pro hormone cycle, where I no longer felt like I was 80 years old with dementia, walking through life feeing my way around like a blind man. I was neurologically destroyed, it’s improved slow, I’ve been doing the protocol for over a year. I basically did the protocol for all that time, with 0 improvement wondering if I’m fucked forever, then improvement began randomly. I also felt way worse during and after my water fast and juice feast. Kept trucking anyways.

3. I didn’t have 1 crash, I had multiple. I had I my initial one, where I took fin, sat back down to watch tv, then maybe an hour later noticed my vision looked like I was underwater, I had derealization, colors were extremely vivid and I felt like I was in a dream. Then came the massive panick attack that sealed my fate because some idiot from propeciahelp wrote a legit article about how fin destroyed his life and how he sees the world through a “thick fog”, I truly believe that article helped in my demise by putting my body through an obscene amount of stress, could have probably saved myself a lot of derealization and trouble without people like that. But then I had smaller crashes in the months following, I’d get “the flu” randomly then after it was gone I’d have more symptoms that just started. They’re all documented in my thread. My crash lasted a long time. If I hadn’t started the protocol, I would have been slowly deteriorating.

I eat veggies (squash, asparagus, avocado, onion, garlic, spinach), nuts (pistachios), meat (ground turkey, chicken breast, eggs), fruit (apples, bananas, grapes, blue/strawberries, raspberries, kiwi, pears), high quality olive oil and that’s it. Sometimes cheat meals if I go out somewhere, like nachos. My backloads, or when I eat carbs are dates and potatoes only. Usually for meals I’ll just cook some chicken or turkey and sauté the vegetables along with it in a frying pan. Easy. Hard boiled eggs are easy too. I also drink this tea I make while boiling lemon, cinnamon and ginger root to fight inflammation. I work full time, so my daily routine is wake up for work, cold shower, work, gym, then cook dinner and cook lunch for the next day at work. I eat the same stuff everyday and don’t ever get cravings, because Med-jool dates are basically candy and have so much natural sugar that they destroy any artificial sugar craving I get. I never want ice cream candy or any of it.

But it sounds like you’re just looking for reassurance man, which you shouldn’t be. That’s an endless cycle and your mind is tricking you. Reading your story or how you describe things it doesn’t seem all too crazy to me after everything I’ve been through. I promise, there are guys here who are just as bad as you, just do the things that you’ve seen done time and time again to heal, and you will. I don’t say this to be a dick, but usually when you post, you say something like “I took 1 pill X amount of time ago, and my whole body shut down blah blah” but the X amount of time keeps increasing, and it won’t stop increasing until you really buckle down and do what you need to. I’m not saying you’re not doing that, I would just say the same to anyone. I’ve never been too concerned with people’s symptoms, crashes, any of it, that’s why I’m here on this forum and once I’m healed I’ll probably be done with all of it. You can heal, no more symptom comparing just go out and kick this things ass. I say this because I care about you and the pfs community, and if I’ve improved anyone can.

[Cdsnuts]

Cdsnuts
CD, I had some questions i've been wanting to ask you & anybody else willing to chime in about general symptoms with PFS. I got fucked hard by a single pill I took over 2 and a half years ago and it led to basically everything about my body changing. Chatted with you in the WhatsApp group and you recommended for me to post my questions here:

Did your actual skin texture and complexion change when you got PFS?
Within days of taking that first pill, I felt something shut off inside of my body. All of my muscles were instantly weak, foreign, and shaky. All of my skin gradually got very rubbery, elastic, thin, etc. Just like an old guy. It is like I lost the texture of my skin and my body got very soft. Prior to PFS, I was always very muscular, dense, lean, and vascular. All of my veins disappeared, I lost all of my muscles, the muscles got very soft, and my skin aged. This hasn't improved. I also started gaining weird, numb fat on my thighs and around my stomach, my hands got puffy, and basically all of my body is like something shut off. I can take and pull my skin anywhere on my body and it's stretchy, pale, does not tan, and has very little sensation anywhere.

Yup. A switch went off inside my brain and I felt it for sure. Could just feel I wasn't right. Skin issues also.

During your recovery, was there a major turning point where you went from seeing zero improvement for an extended period of time to beginning to notice improvement in your symptoms?
I've seen you describe your first water fast as a "hail mary". Was this because you tried the waiting game, took medicines, supplements, etc. without seeing improvement? How long was it after you stopped taking Finasteride did you start thinking that just time wasn't going to heal you? Were the first improvements you ever experienced during your fast? and what were they?

Yes in regards to the fast. This is all documented on PH. All of this. You have to remember...you're asking questions that I've answered many, many times before, not too mention I've been recovered for almost ten years already to it's almost impossible to remember every single little thing.

The Crash
I never experienced a "crash" like many guys do who get PFS. I took a single pill and by the next morning it was like my brain was completely empty. My vision was so screwed that it looked like staring through a fishbowl, it was like being inside of a dream. I couldn't feel my body or anything. This just got worse as more time went by, I noticed my hair was getting more dry, my skin was starting to stop producing oil and start having this scaly, pale texture, and I just gradually kept losing muscle and my body was becoming more foreign. I couldn't understand what I was reading or looking at, my body odor started to smell like cat piss, etc. That was 2 and a half years ago. Now it feels like I've lost so many things that I probably can't ever get back. It just seems like many guys have this initial crash when they take the drug or come off the drug where things go to shit all at once and then gradually improve from there. In my case, it took like over a year and a half for me to even reach a baseline of PFS, it that makes sense. What are your thoughts on this?

I never had an initial crash. Just a slow gradual decline into madness.


Diet-wise, what were your personal go-to's for meal preparations and snacks?
I posted a thread about general food tips and I've taken note of most of the recipes posted here (like the goat kefir w/ collagen & berries, soup, etc), but I wanted to ask during your journey with PFS, were there certain recipes and combinations that you went to pretty often, did you keep it simple? Asking because i've just been kind of running low on ideas lately.

Thanks in advance.

I ate simply. Anything and everything on the Paleo list.

I know you're trying to compare where you're at to see how you stack up recovery wise with others. You can't do that. It will come when it comes. Everyone's journey is different. The only thing that remains the same is what you have to do to get yourself back. Comparing yourself to others is just going to cause unnecessary anxiety.

[Cdsnuts]

1. Yes, skin was/is messed up. A lot of changes in skin, muscle, eyes, and veins. But my veins were opposite than yours where all the sudden they all bulged out of my body, especially in my head. Also varicose veins. I don’t really want to go into specifics because that isn’t what this forum is about.

2. Yes, it was recent, after suffering nearly 2 years. This shit takes time. I didn’t improve much until my 2nd pro hormone cycle, where I no longer felt like I was 80 years old with dementia, walking through life feeing my way around like a blind man. I was neurologically destroyed, it’s improved slow, I’ve been doing the protocol for over a year. I basically did the protocol for all that time, with 0 improvement wondering if I’m fucked forever, then improvement began randomly. I also felt way worse during and after my water fast and juice feast. Kept trucking anyways.

3. I didn’t have 1 crash. I had I my initial one, where I took fin, sat back down to watch tv, then maybe an hour later noticed my vision looked like I was underwater, I had derealization, colors were extremely vivid and I felt like I was in a dream. Then came the massive panick attack that sealed my fate because some idiot from propeciahelp wrote a legit article about how fin destroyed his life and how he sees the world through a “thick fog”, I truly believe that article helped in my demise by putting my body through an obscene amount of stress, could have probably saved myself a lot of derealization and trouble without people like that. But then I had smaller crashes in the months following, I’d get “the flu” randomly then after it was gone I’d have more symptoms that just started. They’re all documented in my thread. My crash lasted a long time. If I hadn’t started the protocol, I would have been slowly deteriorating.

I eat veggies (squash, asparagus, avocado, onion, garlic, spinach), nuts (pistachios), meat (ground turkey, chicken breast, eggs), fruit (apples, bananas, grapes, blue/strawberries, raspberries, kiwi, pears), high quality olive oil and that’s it. Sometimes cheat meals if I go out somewhere, like nachos. My backloads, or when I eat carbs are dates and potatoes only. Usually for meals I’ll just cook some chicken or turkey and sauté the vegetables along with it in a frying pan. Easy. Hard boiled eggs are easy too. I also drink this tea I make while boiling lemon, cinnamon and ginger root to fight inflammation.

But it sounds like you’re just looking for reassurance man, which you shouldn’t be. That’s an endless cycle and your mind is tricking you. Reading your story or how you describe things it doesn’t seem all too crazy to me after everything I’ve been through. I promise, there are guys here who are just as bad as you, just do the things that you’ve seen done time and time again to heal, and you will. I don’t say this to be a dick, but usually when you post, you say something like “I took 1 pill X amount of time ago, and my whole body shut down blah blah” but the X amount of time keeps increasing, and it won’t stop increasing until you really buckle down and do what you need to. I’m not saying you’re not doing that, I would just say the same to anyone. I’ve never been too concerned with people’s symptoms, crashes, any of it, that’s why I’m here on this forum and once I’m healed I’ll probably be done with all of it. You can heal, no more symptom comparing just go out and kick this things ass. I say this because I care about you and the pfs community, and if I’ve improved anyone can.

Good post. I posted something similar before reading what you had written.

[Turnover25]

Good post. I posted something similar before reading what you had written.

Thanks bro.

[Comewhatmay]

Just to jump of the back off what T25 said I had the majority of the same symptoms you speak of minus the brain fog but physically I was severely messed up especially muscle wise as it felt like I'd been deflated like someone popped a balloon and the air or muscle in this case had just gradually shrunk to nothing.

After my waterfast and jumping on board the protocol within 4 months I'd say I recovered muscle wise like 40 to 50 percent through being super consistent and bare in mind 5 months before I just couldn't see any way back. The changes are also so subtle you don't realise them sometimes and you can take them for granted. For example when I crashed whenever I Sat on the floor or Hard surface I could feel my bones and joints on the floor and it was super uncomfortable and painful and then a few months on the protocol and it felt normal. This was something I only really realised recently as I've crashed myself and minus the initial anxiety and depression I'm pretty much back to where I was physically unfortunately but I am a lot calmer now then at the beginning because I have literally seen and felt the improvements.

Just gotta put in the work

[DKnighten]

1. Yes, skin was/is messed up. A lot of changes in skin, muscle, eyes, and veins. But my veins were opposite than yours where all the sudden they all bulged out of my body, especially in my head. Also varicose veins. I don’t really want to go into specifics because that isn’t what this forum is about.

2. Yes, it was recent, after suffering nearly 2 years. This shit takes time. I didn’t improve much until my 2nd pro hormone cycle, where I no longer felt like I was 80 years old with dementia, walking through life feeing my way around like a blind man. I was neurologically destroyed, it’s improved slow, I’ve been doing the protocol for over a year. I basically did the protocol for all that time, with 0 improvement wondering if I’m fucked forever, then improvement began randomly. I also felt way worse during and after my water fast and juice feast. Kept trucking anyways.

3. I didn’t have 1 crash, I had multiple. I had I my initial one, where I took fin, sat back down to watch tv, then maybe an hour later noticed my vision looked like I was underwater, I had derealization, colors were extremely vivid and I felt like I was in a dream. Then came the massive panick attack that sealed my fate because some idiot from propeciahelp wrote a legit article about how fin destroyed his life and how he sees the world through a “thick fog”, I truly believe that article helped in my demise by putting my body through an obscene amount of stress, could have probably saved myself a lot of derealization and trouble without people like that. But then I had smaller crashes in the months following, I’d get “the flu” randomly then after it was gone I’d have more symptoms that just started. They’re all documented in my thread. My crash lasted a long time. If I hadn’t started the protocol, I would have been slowly deteriorating.

I eat veggies (squash, asparagus, avocado, onion, garlic, spinach), nuts (pistachios), meat (ground turkey, chicken breast, eggs), fruit (apples, bananas, grapes, blue/strawberries, raspberries, kiwi, pears), high quality olive oil and that’s it. Sometimes cheat meals if I go out somewhere, like nachos. My backloads, or when I eat carbs are dates and potatoes only. Usually for meals I’ll just cook some chicken or turkey and sauté the vegetables along with it in a frying pan. Easy. Hard boiled eggs are easy too. I also drink this tea I make while boiling lemon, cinnamon and ginger root to fight inflammation. I work full time, so my daily routine is wake up for work, cold shower, work, gym, then cook dinner and cook lunch for the next day at work. I eat the same stuff everyday and don’t ever get cravings, because Med-jool dates are basically candy and have so much natural sugar that they destroy any artificial sugar craving I get. I never want ice cream candy or any of it.

But it sounds like you’re just looking for reassurance man, which you shouldn’t be. That’s an endless cycle and your mind is tricking you. Reading your story or how you describe things it doesn’t seem all too crazy to me after everything I’ve been through. I promise, there are guys here who are just as bad as you, just do the things that you’ve seen done time and time again to heal, and you will. I don’t say this to be a dick, but usually when you post, you say something like “I took 1 pill X amount of time ago, and my whole body shut down blah blah” but the X amount of time keeps increasing, and it won’t stop increasing until you really buckle down and do what you need to. I’m not saying you’re not doing that, I would just say the same to anyone. I’ve never been too concerned with people’s symptoms, crashes, any of it, that’s why I’m here on this forum and once I’m healed I’ll probably be done with all of it. You can heal, no more symptom comparing just go out and kick this things ass. I say this because I care about you and the pfs community, and if I’ve improved anyone can.

Thanks for the detailed response man. Very helpful and much appreciated.

[Turnover25]

Just to jump of the back off what T25 said I had the majority of the same symptoms you speak of minus the brain fog but physically I was severely messed up especially muscle wise as it felt like I'd been deflated like someone popped a balloon and the air or muscle in this case had just gradually shrunk to nothing.

After my waterfast and jumping on board the protocol within 4 months I'd say I recovered muscle wise like 40 to 50 percent through being super consistent and bare in mind 5 months before I just couldn't see any way back. The changes are also so subtle you don't realise them sometimes and you can take them for granted. For example when I crashed whenever I Sat on the floor or Hard surface I could feel my bones and joints on the floor and it was super uncomfortable and painful and then a few months on the protocol and it felt normal. This was something I only really realised recently as I've crashed myself and minus the initial anxiety and depression I'm pretty much back to where I was physically unfortunately but I am a lot calmer now then at the beginning because I have literally seen and felt the improvements.

Just gotta put in the work

I second this. Progress is so slow that you take it for granted. At times I don’t remember how bad it used to be until I hit a bad downswing and realize how far I’ve come.

DKnighten keep going bro, you’ll be fine

[Queens1984]

I second this. Progress is so slow that you take it for granted. At times I don’t remember how bad it used to be until I hit a bad downswing and realize how far I’ve come.

DKnighten keep going bro, you’ll be fine

Nothing worse then a Downswing. You never think it’s going too End. Just keep Pushing BROTHER

[Cdsnuts]

Nothing worse then a Downswing. You never think it’s going too End. Just keep Pushing BROTHER

Starts getting exciting when downswings only stick around for a couple days.....then you know it's on the ropes.....

[Queens1984]

Starts getting exciting when downswings only stick around for a couple days.....then you know it's on the ropes.....

Man I look forward too that. These downswings feel like they will never end. Thanks CD.

[Cdsnuts]

I second this. Progress is so slow that you take it for granted. At times I don’t remember how bad it used to be until I hit a bad downswing and realize how far I’ve come.

DKnighten keep going bro, you’ll be fine

This is how it's going to be for MOST of the journey. You will occasionally have nice jumps in baseline towards the end, but the beginning is brutally slow. This is what deters alot of guys and makes some assume that it "didn't work." Regardless, it's still the best and only option that will eventually bring back your health.

This is also the exact reason I tell guys to stay on the protocol for an additional six months even after they feel they've recovered. Because of this natural oscillation.

[DKnighten]

I'm going to run my first prohormone cycle. Is the R-Andro cream from IML fine to run by itself? This was recommended by Joe, as it does not have epiandrosterone which antagonizes GABA further.

[HOPE]

Have you done everything in the protocol for a few months firstly?

[DKnighten]

Have you done everything in the protocol for a few months firstly?

Been following the protocol probably 75% for over a year now with zero benefit.

[Outlaw]

Been following the protocol probably 75% for over a year now with zero benefit.
Man of course you can't expect results if you don't go all in. I'm going at it 100% and I made good progress in 4 months.

I'm not CD but depending on what's the missing 25%, I don't even know if I would start prohormones.

Good luck man

[DKnighten]

Man of course you can't expect results if you don't go all in. I'm going at it 100% and I made good progress in 4 months.

I'm not CD but depending on what's the missing 25%, I don't even know if I would start prohormones.

Good luck man

I live a healthy lifestyle dude. I get sun every day, I get some form of exercise every day, I eat well, I do breathing, meditation, etc. I have had zero improvements anywhere. Very few guys I've come across over 2 and a half years have had the types of physical changes i've had. 5 or less. I'm not eating ice cream and bullshit complaining that i'm not getting any better. I don't take cold showers because I'm freezing all of the time as it is and I don't use the bathmate because my rubbery dick and zero libido is the least of my concerns. I don't sprint and do HIIT because I can do body weight exercises and be fucked up like I have the flu and be unfunctional the rest of the day. The herb rotation, sun exposure, elimination of phytoestrogens in all forms, breathing, meditation, etc. I've done it for over a year consistently. Nothing about my body or cognition has changed. I was looking for some quick advice about the R andro cycle because it is my last hoo-rah before I call it quits. I refuse to live another 2-3 years this way before it happens anyways. If the program is giving you benefits, then i'm very happy to hear it. It's not the same on my end.

[Outlaw]

I live a healthy lifestyle dude. I get sun every day, I get some form of exercise every day, I eat well, I do breathing, meditation, etc. I have had zero improvements anywhere. Very few guys I've come across over 2 and a half years have had the types of physical changes i've had. 5 or less. I'm not eating ice cream and bullshit complaining that i'm not getting any better. I don't take cold showers because I'm freezing all of the time as it is and I don't use the bathmate because my rubbery dick and zero libido is the least of my concerns. I don't sprint and do HIIT because I can do body weight exercises and be fucked up like I have the flu and be unfunctional the rest of the day. The herb rotation, sun exposure, elimination of phytoestrogens in all forms, breathing, meditation, etc. I've done it for over a year consistently. Nothing about my body or cognition has changed. I was looking for some quick advice about the R andro cycle because it is my last hoo-rah before I call it quits. I refuse to live another 2-3 years this way before it happens anyways. If the program is giving you benefits, then i'm very happy to hear it. It's not the same on my end.
I hope you know that I didn't mean to condescend or anything. I can relate to your story because I also took 1 pill, and we actually talked briefly on PH in december.

I just want to tell you that calling quits is not an option man. If I were you, my "last hoorah" wouldn't be a random R-Andro cycle, it would be trying to follow the program as closely as possible (given what you can) for 2 years. You can get better. Maybe not as quickly as others, but it's definitely possible. And you'll never know how the juice tastes if you give up before squeezing it.

I understand your case might be more severe but don't give up man. If I can ever help I'm just a message away

[HOPE]

I hope you know that I didn't mean to condescend or anything. I can relate to your story because I also took 1 pill, and we actually talked briefly on PH in december.

I just want to tell you that calling quits is not an option man. If I were you, my "last hoorah" wouldn't be a random R-Andro cycle, it would be trying to follow the program as closely as possible (given what you can) for 2 years. You can get better. Maybe not as quickly as others, but it's definitely possible. And you'll never know how the juice tastes if you give up before squeezing it.

I understand your case might be more severe but don't give up man. If I can ever help I'm just a message away

Come on my brother. Outlaw is giving you some words of wisdom right here. Why not hop into an extended fast? That was what sealed the deal for me…. it certainly helped. How is your diet like? What do you eat on a daily basis? What herbs are you rotating? I’ve only been following the protocol for a month and there has been some minor improvements in certain things… I’m sure you’ll get better, but calling it quits? Not an option.

Fast, man… fast until completion. Then slowly start doing body-weight exercises, upping the doses on the herbs. I don’t mean to be a dick, but there’s certainly a lot to try.

[DKnighten]

Come on my brother. Outlaw is giving you some words of wisdom right here. Why not hop into an extended fast? That was what sealed the deal for me…. it certainly helped. How is your diet like? What do you eat on a daily basis? What herbs are you rotating? I’ve only been following the protocol for a month and there has been some minor improvements in certain things… I’m sure you’ll get better, but calling it quits? Not an option.

Fast, man… fast until completion. Then slowly start doing body-weight exercises, upping the doses on the herbs. I don’t mean to be a dick, but there’s certainly a lot to try.

An extended fast is not an option. I'm in a Doctorate program that's full time with no breaks. I did the juicing as well and i'm aware enough to know that it's a health fad. It may improve some gut issues and calm inflammation, but juicing for an extended period of time is not going to result in substantial changes. Extended fasting may, but it's not an option right now. My diet is good. Cauliflower rice, no grains, some cheese on my omelets and some other dishes, lots of water, chicken, beef, steamed cruciferous veggies, coconut milk smoothies (with goat whey and berries, cilantro, parsley, ceylon cinnamon), lots of homemade chicken curry. apples, couple of brazil nuts daily. No other nuts or dairy. Goat feta on dishes. I use a lot of recipes posted here. When I tell you that I have always been very health aware, i'm not bullshitting. Go to PH and look at pictures of me before PFS. I am pretty certain I was in significantly better shape than most guys on this forum and have extensive knowledge of exercise and lifting weights. I have a bachelor's degree in Kinesiology and i'm a 2nd year DPT student.

I'm rotating cordyceps, cistanche, tongkat, bacopa, and i take ash and pine pollen daily. Along with vitamin D, C palmitate, Boron, Butyrate, phosphatidyl choline, chlorella, I mean etc etc dude. I've followed this protocol for the past year and some change apart from the cold showers and the dick pump. I've always lived healthy and been a stud. check out my pictures. TMO program largely consists of living a healthy lifestyle and not being a socially isolated hermit. To see guys on here have some minor shit like libido and ED improve and then say "get to work" or "don't be a victim" is honestly laughable.

I'm desperate at this point and i've gotten to a point where I honestly can't imagine life without fucked up muscles, skin, hair, vision, cognition, etc. I need to try something and R andro seems to be safer than going on TRT or HCG

[Comewhatmay]

An extended fast is not an option. I'm in a Doctorate program that's full time with no breaks. I did the juicing as well and i'm aware enough to know that it's a health fad. It may improve some gut issues and calm inflammation, but juicing for an extended period of time is not going to result in substantial changes. Extended fasting may, but it's not an option right now. My diet is good. Cauliflower rice, no grains, some cheese on my omelets and some other dishes, lots of water, chicken, beef, steamed cruciferous veggies, coconut milk smoothies (with goat whey and berries, cilantro, parsley, ceylon cinnamon), lots of homemade chicken curry. apples, couple of brazil nuts daily. No other nuts or dairy. Goat feta on dishes. I use a lot of recipes posted here. When I tell you that I have always been very health aware, i'm not bullshitting. Go to PH and look at pictures of me before PFS. I am pretty certain I was in significantly better shape than most guys on this forum and have extensive knowledge of exercise and lifting weights. I have a bachelor's degree in Kinesiology and i'm a 2nd year DPT student.

I'm rotating cordyceps, cistanche, tongkat, bacopa, and i take ash and pine pollen daily. Along with vitamin D, C palmitate, Boron, Butyrate, phosphatidyl choline, chlorella, I mean etc etc dude. I've followed this protocol for the past year and some change apart from the cold showers and the dick pump. I've always lived healthy and been a stud. check out my pictures. TMO program largely consists of living a healthy lifestyle and not being a socially isolated hermit. To see guys on here have some minor shit like libido and ED improve and then say "get to work" or "don't be a victim" is honestly laughable.

I'm desperate at this point and i've gotten to a point where I honestly can't imagine life without fucked up muscles, skin, hair, vision, cognition, etc. I need to try something and R andro seems to be safer than going on TRT or HCG

For the life of me I cannot understand someone talking about ending it instead of doing an extended fast I mean it's ridiculous. I've seen your previous posts on here years ago and even then CD was telling you it all begins with the fast especially if your as messed up as you say you are so saying you've had zero benefit shouldn't be a surprise or shock to anyone especially those who come in and see these comments

This is your health you're talking about and you wouldn't take time off studying or even waiting till graduating to then start from the bottom up?! and I can't believe in the 2 or so years since you got hit with this you've been so busy to start fasting. Btw I've had your symptoms especially the physical ones and I've had very good improvements. You talk about being fucked from excercise I had the same issues where I would get bad rib pain and covid type symptoms after push ups or body weight squats but what fixed it for me was 30 day intermittent fasting eating from only 8pm till around 11 when I slept.

Bottom line is we know you have to fast and it sounds like you know also. How a man can call himself desperate and not be willing to commit to an extended waterfast, especially someone in the state you claim you are in,doesn't make sense which makes me think you're not desperate enough yet because when you are a fast won't be looked at as a challenge or an obstacle but rather a life or death type of thing.

[Hulk Smash]

DKnighten

Whats up!
I wouldn't bother taking PH if you have no improvement from doing TMO.
No results from TMO indicates you still have underlying issues to correct that go beyond low DHT, in my opinion and based on my years of studies.
Try it but don't trash it, if it doesnt work now.

Change didn't happen for me personally until I put more focus on thyroid, cortisol, vitamins/minerals. I took a bit more iodine and selenium throughout the week(maybe 3 times a week instead of only 2).
I took anti-stress herbs 5 days on 2 days off, for weeks. I would alternate between rhodiola and ashwaganda. I did all that PLUS the normal TMO protocol.

I also took a break from my studies and worked only part-time for a while. Lost my gf in the process because in her eyes I probably crumbled into nothing, was doing nothing, and was weak. It was difficult to let go but I knew what I had to do for MYSELF because NO ONE else would do it for me. I had to look at the bigger picture and admit that dragging myself thru the mud, pretending I was ok, wasnt going to give me a normal life. I had to embrace RECOVERY 100% or I would end up losing everything in the end anyway because my health would be completely ruined.

I let go of almost everything because stress was a big monster I needed to destroy. Less stress gave me FAST results.

I'm not saying take a break from your studies or your gf or whatever. What I'm saying is you know deep down what you have to do and when you're not giving 100%.

Recovery = 110% or nothing.

[HOPE]

If you say juicing is a health fad, one can easily say Propecia will not and can not cause lasting side effects. It’s clear you hold the victim mentality. After my initial fast, I felt incredibly better. You seem like a severe case, and believe me, I have seen your case - but the answer is always going to be the same. To think everyone on this page only struggles with low libido is ridiculous… you may have a harder time going at it, but without fasting you haven’t even given it a try.
You took time off of school and work last year - why did you not check in yourself into a fasting center to complete your fast then? The matter is in your own hands.

[HOPE]

Just reread your whole thread… life is within your fucking power, man.
You do a juice feast then cave and eat on the fourth day, you don’t do an extended cleanse, you come here asking for reassurance but show no real effort to undergo the necessary changes. For those of us who have been as severely hurt by the drug as you, CD always recommends an extended fast at a clinic. Why haven’t you done that?

[Turnover25]

I live a healthy lifestyle dude. I get sun every day, I get some form of exercise every day, I eat well, I do breathing, meditation, etc. I have had zero improvements anywhere. Very few guys I've come across over 2 and a half years have had the types of physical changes i've had. 5 or less. I'm not eating ice cream and bullshit complaining that i'm not getting any better. I don't take cold showers because I'm freezing all of the time as it is and I don't use the bathmate because my rubbery dick and zero libido is the least of my concerns. I don't sprint and do HIIT because I can do body weight exercises and be fucked up like I have the flu and be unfunctional the rest of the day. The herb rotation, sun exposure, elimination of phytoestrogens in all forms, breathing, meditation, etc. I've done it for over a year consistently. Nothing about my body or cognition has changed. I was looking for some quick advice about the R andro cycle because it is my last hoo-rah before I call it quits. I refuse to live another 2-3 years this way before it happens anyways. If the program is giving you benefits, then i'm very happy to hear it. It's not the same on my end.

Hey bud I’m glad to see you’re still kicking. I really get it man, I know you’re one of the severe cases as you know I am as we’ve talked, my advise is do the protocol, jump on the prohormones for a month or 2, take a couple months off to rebound your hormones, jump on another cycle, rinse and repeat. I know exactly where you’re coming from, and the cycles are the thing that helped me the most, doing everything else in tandem is extremely important, but without the cycles I think I would have still been neurologically destroyed. Do a few of them, and you’ll slowly start to improve, no doubt about it, count on it my friend. You’ll be doing better in no time.

I used to get kinda mad reading stories about people with low libido bitching that they’re life was over, while I was completely fucked in every aspect. You’re right to feel that way. I remember just a year ago I wouldn’t sprint because it would make me so much worse, cold showers made me feel horrible, life was fucking hell. It REALLY gets better man, don’t even sweat it. But as for my opinion, YES jump on the fucking hormones. Read all my threads about my cycles, they are there to serve you. I documented everything to make sure guys who are in the trenches, like I was, know exactly what to expect. Get on it my friend

[DKnighten]

J
For those of us who have been as severely hurt by the drug as you, CD always recommends an extended fast at a clinic. Why haven’t you done that?

For a 2 week fast at TrueNorth, when you take into account airfare and total costs, it's about $4,000 - $5,000. I don't have that type of money nor the credit to even borrow that type of money.

[Cdsnuts]

An extended fast is not an option. I'm in a Doctorate program that's full time with no breaks. I did the juicing as well and i'm aware enough to know that it's a health fad. It may improve some gut issues and calm inflammation, but juicing for an extended period of time is not going to result in substantial changes. Extended fasting may, but it's not an option right now. My diet is good. Cauliflower rice, no grains, some cheese on my omelets and some other dishes, lots of water, chicken, beef, steamed cruciferous veggies, coconut milk smoothies (with goat whey and berries, cilantro, parsley, ceylon cinnamon), lots of homemade chicken curry. apples, couple of brazil nuts daily. No other nuts or dairy. Goat feta on dishes. I use a lot of recipes posted here. When I tell you that I have always been very health aware, i'm not bullshitting. Go to PH and look at pictures of me before PFS. I am pretty certain I was in significantly better shape than most guys on this forum and have extensive knowledge of exercise and lifting weights. I have a bachelor's degree in Kinesiology and i'm a 2nd year DPT student.

I'm rotating cordyceps, cistanche, tongkat, bacopa, and i take ash and pine pollen daily. Along with vitamin D, C palmitate, Boron, Butyrate, phosphatidyl choline, chlorella, I mean etc etc dude. I've followed this protocol for the past year and some change apart from the cold showers and the dick pump. I've always lived healthy and been a stud. check out my pictures. TMO program largely consists of living a healthy lifestyle and not being a socially isolated hermit. To see guys on here have some minor shit like libido and ED improve and then say "get to work" or "don't be a victim" is honestly laughable.

I'm desperate at this point and i've gotten to a point where I honestly can't imagine life without fucked up muscles, skin, hair, vision, cognition, etc. I need to try something and R andro seems to be safer than going on TRT or HCG

Juice cleansing a "health fad?" I guess that depends on how you look at it. I've used it as a tool for the past ten years, so if fads last that long, then so be it. Whether it is, or isn't, doesn't take away from the benefits it give the body. And you're incorrect. A substantial juice feast WILL result in important changes. It's just most guys just have some bullshit excuse as to why they can't do it for longer then a few days. That's laughable.

Okay....so you've been on for a year....75%. Average heal time is 6mos-2 years at 100% Looks like you're gonna be on the longer end of things.

What's stopping you from cycling?

[DKnighten]

Juice cleansing a "health fad?" I guess that depends on how you look at it. I've used it as a tool for the past ten years, so if fads last that long, then so be it. Whether it is, or isn't, doesn't take away from the benefits it give the body. And you're incorrect. A substantial juice feast WILL result in important changes. It's just most guys just have some bullshit excuse as to why they can't do it for longer then a few days. That's laughable.

Okay....so you've been on for a year....75%. Average heal time is 6mos-2 years at 100% Looks like you're gonna be on the longer end of things.

What's stopping you from cycling?

Nothing is stopping me from cycling apart from fear of getting worse. I've stayed away from any hormone treatment other than a few months of Clomid. Since I haven't been "all in" with dieting and more than 4 or 5 herbs for an extended period of time, I've been reluctant to give the R-andro a spin.

[HOPE]

Nothing is stopping me from cycling apart from fear of getting worse. I've stayed away from any hormone treatment other than a few months of Clomid. Since I haven't been "all in" with dieting and more than 4 or 5 herbs for an extended period of time, I've been reluctant to give the R-andro a spin.

Man, not trying to be a dick, but this clearly works for Finasteride issues. Buy more herbs, dial down on the diet, cycle them, do that for 2 more months, then R-andro.

[Cdsnuts]

Nothing is stopping me from cycling apart from fear of getting worse. I've stayed away from any hormone treatment other than a few months of Clomid. Since I haven't been "all in" with dieting and more than 4 or 5 herbs for an extended period of time, I've been reluctant to give the R-andro a spin.

Understandable.

Here's the thing.....I was where you are....I was deeep in a dark lonely hole. Do you think I would recommend something to a pfs guy that is going to fuck him up even more? No.

I understand the trepidation, but you'll feel when the time is right....

[DKnighten]

over the past 6 months, I was making progress. I was gaining some strength, and acutally built a small amount of muscle mass. My skin hadn't noticeably changed, butoverall I felt that I was in a better mental space. I started having constipation and bowel changes about 2 months ago, and it resulted in me having a sharp pain in my rectum while I was using the restroom. I had instant pain, numbness and tingling in my rectum. It felt like I was sitting on a golf ball for a week and I couldn't shit. I resorted to using small doses of laxatives and I had to do 2 enemas because I was freaking out. Well, it resulted in my digestive system and body crashing again. I lost 12 lbs in 2 weeks, and i'm currently 136 lbs. I lost all of the muscle I built, my skin got even worse (more elastic, saggy, and pale). My cognition and derealization got worse, my hair got more dry. I don't know if I disturbed my gut biome severely with the laxatives and enemas, but I've basically set myself back to square one. I am so devastated over this because I was finally starting to gain some semblance of normal again. I don't know what to do honestly.

[AltRoute]

over the past 6 months, I was making progress. I was gaining some strength, and acutally built a small amount of muscle mass. My skin hadn't noticeably changed, butoverall I felt that I was in a better mental space. I started having constipation and bowel changes about 2 months ago, and it resulted in me having a sharp pain in my rectum while I was using the restroom. I had instant pain, numbness and tingling in my rectum. It felt like I was sitting on a golf ball for a week and I couldn't shit. I resorted to using small doses of laxatives and I had to do 2 enemas because I was freaking out. Well, it resulted in my digestive system and body crashing again. I lost 12 lbs in 2 weeks, and i'm currently 136 lbs. I lost all of the muscle I built, my skin got even worse (more elastic, saggy, and pale). My cognition and derealization got worse, my hair got more dry. I don't know if I disturbed my gut biome severely with the laxatives and enemas, but I've basically set myself back to square one. I am so devastated over this because I was finally starting to gain some semblance of normal again. I don't know what to do honestly.

That sounds awful. I would honestly consider maybe getting the wait back up a little and then hoping on a extended water fast. I did a week of juice and 6 days ofWater and and even though it didn’t completely go away, the cognition/physical aspects definitely improved during the WF.

[DKnighten]

So I fucked up. After the digestion issues cleared up, I started seeing progress. I was actually building muscle for the first time in a long time, my skin was noticeably better, energy improved, exercise tolerance, sleep. These were big changes for me. So big that I started seeing an ex-girlfriend and was at her place a lot over 3 months (january-March). Things didn't end well because she's not a good person and I let it affect me to the point where I went and took Lexapro and Buspar. Within 3 days, my dick was completely limp, burning, and there was a sharp tingling around my rectum. I had dry mouth and zero apetite. I've since stopped taking them obviously but i've since noticed my skin has gotten worse, like back to square one. It's thin, transparent, and holds indentions of whatever touches it. I've lost all the muscle I gained, I have hardcore emotional flatness, my sleep is fucked up again. Erections are slanted to the left, scrotum is rubbery. I'm really worried that I made a big mistake which has set me back years, if not permanently. Most if not all of these things had improved over the past year prior to fucking this up.

[Ratchet_V2]

Run the full protocol again, fast to finish. If you hold it consistently for 3-6 months, you will realize this is not permanent. Really take stock of what’s going on and how you actually feel and focus on those. You just said you were really worried after also stating that you have hardcore emotional numbness. I think it’s important to realize that you may not be as bad off as you write and that this is something that you can fix and will fix with time. Take care of yourself man.

[DKnighten]

Run the full protocol again, fast to finish. If you hold it consistently for 3-6 months, you will realize this is not permanent. Really take stock of what’s going on and how you actually feel and focus on those. You just said you were really worried after also stating that you have hardcore emotional numbness. I think it’s important to realize that you may not be as bad off as you write and that this is something that you can fix and will fix with time. Take care of yourself man.

skin over the entire body, body hairs, and body frame going to absolute shit is pretty bad if you ask me. Not being able to see anything in a grocery store, staying at 135 lbs after walking around 160 lbs your entire life, your skin (dick and entire body) turning into absolute elastic rubber, body odor smelling like cat piss and vinegar. Skin as thin as someone who's 60. Sleeping 8-10 hours and feeling like you pulled an all nighter, for almost 4 years. and just fucking it up even worse after losing 4 years to this while running the protocol 75%+. I worked so hard and just made such a big mistake. I will re-run the protocol.

[AltRoute]

Not to sound like a dick, but anxiety meds are NOT part of the protocol. Have you done a proper fast yet? Probably one of ,if not the most important part of the protocol, is fasting.

I’ve had the same issues as you including the body comp changes and have noticed improvements. Stay the course .

[DKnighten]

No, I made a huge, huge mistake by taking Lexapro and Buspar. It was a total boneheaded move and I knew way better than to take anything like that. I have yet to fast again. Until I do, I am staying strictly on the diet and zero supplements.

[road to recover]

Hi man, I'm in the same boat.

Had pfs a decade and got to a point after three years where size and sensitivity returned. Never regained muscle but didn't use the gym. Was doing so well in 2020 but took ZMA, which helped initially, and that plus zinc was too much 5ari inhibition, aslo took those b vitamins bottles. I can't be too hard on myself as I took them for years but I didn't realise they were crashing me until it was too late. Also took seroquel for sleep and that fucked me worse in retrospect. I thought it was stress and while that didn't help it was 5ari stuff. Got so much into thinking about "boost your testosterone" stuff that I forgot I am very sensitive pfs case.

What are you eating now? I'm in the middle of a crash so I am taking valium to stop rampant insomnia, but when I come off I will do a week water fast and start from there.

What's your diet like? I need to eat healthy but avoid any 5ari foods just now, previously stuff like avocado's and tomatoes helped but not now. Hence why I am reluctant to do a juice feast.

What are the safest herbs to rotate? Ie no 5ari properties like cistanche, which I now has crashed someone recently.

[DKnighten]

Cdsnuts

Over the past year, I had made so much progress in the physical realm. I had a ways to go, especially cognitively and mentally. But as far as musularity, vascularity, and strength, I was damn near recovered. I had a very weak period after a breakup in April and I took Lexapro (SSRI) and Buspirone. It has crashed me all over again, but even worse. Being the nature of SSRIs and drugs like Buspar, how does this affect my recovery? In addition to the PFS protocol, do I need to search out particular things for PSSD? I am so distraught over this man, and it was such a big fuck up. I was so fucking close.

[DKnighten]

Hi man, I'm in the same boat.

Had pfs a decade and got to a point after three years where size and sensitivity returned. Never regained muscle but didn't use the gym. Was doing so well in 2020 but took ZMA, which helped initially, and that plus zinc was too much 5ari inhibition, aslo took those b vitamins bottles. I can't be too hard on myself as I took them for years but I didn't realise they were crashing me until it was too late. Also took seroquel for sleep and that fucked me worse in retrospect. I thought it was stress and while that didn't help it was 5ari stuff. Got so much into thinking about "boost your testosterone" stuff that I forgot I am very sensitive pfs case.

What are you eating now? I'm in the middle of a crash so I am taking valium to stop rampant insomnia, but when I come off I will do a week water fast and start from there.

What's your diet like? I need to eat healthy but avoid any 5ari foods just now, previously stuff like avocado's and tomatoes helped but not now. Hence why I am reluctant to do a juice feast.

What are the safest herbs to rotate? Ie no 5ari properties like cistanche, which I now has crashed someone recently.

Can't overstate the importance of lifting weights atleast 30 mins a day once your body is able to. It speeds up everything else. As for diet, the hardest habit for me to break was going to get something when I was hungry. I literally had to watch videos on how to dice an onion, peppers, etc. Once I started making more meals and internalizing more recipes, it became a lot easier and more automatic. Have a few meal recipes and a solid smoothie recipe as a go-to, so even when you're busy or overwhelmed, you can still cook some stuff in bulk that you look forward to eating. This has always been the hardest thing for me, staying consistent on a diet. As far as safest herbs and supplements, i'm not the one to ask. I take vitamin D, C, Boron, Magnesium daily and i've taken ashwagandha, pine pollen, tongkat, cordyceps, cistanche periodically. I didn't notice any bad effects from them. But since my recent crash i'm not currently taking herbs.

[God]

One of my issues with this forum is that people tend to blame themselves too much. Rather than what people are recommending - starving yourself for days or weeks...again, it would probably be an idea to see a gastroenterologist. There was a guy on here who kept crashing from gut problems and blaming himself, fasting again, etc.... well it turned out he had a bowel rotting with polyps and gallstones. Just my insight

[road to recover]

How much muscle did you put on?

[xxaleksi]

One of my issues with this forum is that people tend to blame themselves too much. Rather than what people are recommending - starving yourself for days or weeks...again, it would probably be an idea to see a gastroenterologist. There was a guy on here who kept crashing from gut problems and blaming himself, fasting again, etc.... well it turned out he had a bowel rotting with polyps and gallstones. Just my insight

Well personally my 14-day water fast cured my gut issues I’d had since I was eight years old. I’m 21 now. Spent my childhood and teenage years going to gastroenterologists who told me there’s nothing I can do. Lol. Not to mention the fast completely removed my horrific symptoms of mycotoxin poisoning.

I would like to do a 21 dayer within the next five years or so but will probably need to do it under supervision. Had zero issues doing a 14-day fast alone but obviously it’s much safer to do it in a professional setting.

[DKnighten]

I feel like taking the SSRI has completely changed the landscape of recovery for me. Is there anyone who has crashed from an SSRI after having PFS and was able to get back to their previous baseline?

[HOPE]

I feel like taking the SSRI has completely changed the landscape of recovery for me. Is there anyone who has crashed from an SSRI after having PFS and was able to get back to their previous baseline?
Hey Damon, I’ve crashed from an SSRI (don’t even have PFS). The protocol works, and there have been documented cases of recovery/partial recovery with the protocol. I have been having good results, and I believe these two illnesses to be very similar.

[DKnighten]

Hey Damon, I’ve crashed from an SSRI (don’t even have PFS). The protocol works, and there have been documented cases of recovery/partial recovery with the protocol. I have been having good results, and I believe these two illnesses to be very similar.

Thank you for the response. Your username is familiar. I think we might have argued or something in the past? I can't remember anything at all. It's like there are clouds in my brain. like a complete separate reality. It's like my body isn't even my own. I can't believe that I was doing so well and did this to myself.

[AltRoute]

Thank you for the response. Your username is familiar. I think we might have argued or something in the past? I can't remember anything at all. It's like there are clouds in my brain. like a complete separate reality. It's like my body isn't even my own. I can't believe that I was doing so well and did this to myself.

Just out of curiosity Have you returned to baseline prior to doing the SSRI encounter ?

[DKnighten]

Just out of curiosity Have you returned to baseline prior to doing the SSRI encounter ?

i'm not sure what you're asking. If I was recovered before I took Lexapro? No, but I had major improvements physically as far as muscle and strength. My skin even seemed to improve some. I still had cognitive/perceptual issues and major anxiety.

Since this Lexapro crash, I'm worse than ever, with complete anhedonia on top.

[AltRoute]

i'm not sure what you're asking. If I was recovered before I took Lexapro? No, but I had major improvements physically as far as muscle and strength. My skin even seemed to improve some. I still had cognitive/perceptual issues and major anxiety.

Since this Lexapro crash, I'm worse than ever, with complete anhedonia on top.

I meant “after” the Ssri, apologies

[DKnighten]

My body is still in the process of crashing. Might take a while before things stabilize. I didn't realize the damage that an SSRI could do with this condition, but I know now. Same mindset that drove me to take Finasteride was the one that drove me to take the SSRI. Have to improve all aspects of my life (emotional, physical, etc) in order to recover from this. That means running TMO as close to 100% as I can. Won't be able to do a long fast until i'm out of school, so i'm not gonna stress about it. Won't be able to sun my nuts anywhere right now, etc. Touching base with a functional MD when I can afford it, just to see what they recommend.

Currently taking a couple months of S. Boulardii, added in chicory tea a few times a week, and tightened up the diet. Nordic naturals fish oil daily also. Goat whey protein shake with collagen powder and veggies, etc. Daily walk outside, laying off resistance training until my body stabilizes some. Hesitant about taking vitamin D now because I'm unsure if I've added PSSD to this thing and apparently vitamin D can worsen PSSD. I'll touch base in a few months when i'm better.

[HOPE]

My body is still in the process of crashing. Might take a while before things stabilize. I didn't realize the damage that an SSRI could do with this condition, but I know now. Same mindset that drove me to take Finasteride was the one that drove me to take the SSRI. Have to improve all aspects of my life (emotional, physical, etc) in order to recover from this. That means running TMO as close to 100% as I can. Won't be able to do a long fast until i'm out of school, so i'm not gonna stress about it. Won't be able to sun my nuts anywhere right now, etc. Touching base with a functional MD when I can afford it, just to see what they recommend.

Currently taking a couple months of S. Boulardii, added in chicory tea a few times a week, and tightened up the diet. Nordic naturals fish oil daily also. Goat whey protein shake with collagen powder and veggies, etc. Daily walk outside, laying off resistance training until my body stabilizes some. Hesitant about taking vitamin D now because I'm unsure if I've added PSSD to this thing and apparently vitamin D can worsen PSSD. I'll touch base in a few months when i'm better.

Hey Damon. I understand the fears, but PSSD cases can recover with the protocol too. I have seen some tremendous results and I have never taken Finasteride. I took Lexapro/Cipralex. I wouldn’t worry too much, I think the protocol might be enough. Let’s worry if the protocol isn’t after you’ve done it for some time.

[xxaleksi]

Imo, PSSD and PFS are probably the same condition or at least very similar. Just caused by different drugs. The solution is the same.

[DKnighten]

Since this SSRI crash, my hair thickness and texture has completely changed. 3 and a half years of PFS and my hair stopped shedding at all, was very thick and dry, and now it's becoming super thin and shedding everywhere. Before, I had constant anxiety and high cortisol symptoms and now I don't feel anything at all. I don't understand this.

[xxaleksi]

Yes the lack of emotions is something that’s more common for PSSD rather than PFS. At least that’s what I read back in the doom and gloom days

[GoldenSun]

I've got anhedonia from Minoxidil so I'm not sure if its just PSSD. I think all of this shit is the same tbh. Certain drugs just trigger this thing in people

[road to recover]

I took seroquel like a fucking idiot on and off


My baseline for years was good

O made posts here in 2016 to 2018, sexually I was pretty good then and fog, fatigue and insomnia were long gone. Testes were normal size. Then I fucked it with stress in 2019, was working or rtaher volunteering somehwere and my pfs was found out by some freak accident leading to harassment and embarassment. Cunts. Then took zma for sleep 2020 did great on that but didn't cycle it, ended up mini crash with insomnia that I ended up "fixing" with quetiapine an awful, powerful antipsychotic. Now my life is in ruins ten months later.

[Cdsnuts]

I took seroquel like a fucking idiot on and off


My baseline for years was good

O made posts here in 2016 to 2018, sexually I was pretty good then and fog, fatigue and insomnia were long gone. Testes were normal size. Then I fucked it with stress in 2019, was working or rtaher volunteering somehwere and my pfs was found out by some freak accident leading to harassment and embarassment. Cunts. Then took zma for sleep 2020 did great on that but didn't cycle it, ended up mini crash with insomnia that I ended up "fixing" with quetiapine an awful, powerful antipsychotic. Now my life is in ruins ten months later.

Seroquel increases estrogen in men and causes "bitch tits" among other things. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way. You can get it back, but you just gotta put in the time.

[DKnighten]

Seroquel increases estrogen in men and causes "bitch tits" among other things. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way. You can get it back, but you just gotta put in the time.

CD, do you have any input or thoughts on further crashing from an SSRI with PFS? Is recovery after this something you have seen before? I was hoping you could touch on this at some point. Also, the majority of the herbs I have taken have been ordered through LEH via your links. For what it's worth.

[isseo]

Do no take SSRI anymore.

Maybe you will see benefits but it will be temporary until you have a big crash. ESPECIALLY stay away from this drug.

[DKnighten]

Do no take SSRI anymore.

Maybe you will see benefits but it will be temporary until you have a big crash. ESPECIALLY stay away from this drug.

I already did crash from using an SSRI after 3 days. It's worsened all of my symptoms. Have you experienced this?

[isseo]

I already did crash from using an SSRI after 3 days. It's worsened all of my symptoms. Have you experienced this?

no, I used it about 10 years ago, long before my PFS And I'll never take it again

[Cdsnuts]

CD, do you have any input or thoughts on further crashing from an SSRI with PFS? Is recovery after this something you have seen before? I was hoping you could touch on this at some point. Also, the majority of the herbs I have taken have been ordered through LEH via your links. For what it's worth.

There are some guys that have had PSSD and got well following the protocol. It can certainly be done, I've seen it. Time frames vary but is similar to PFS in terms of recovery.

And thank you.

[barbaar]

Hey guys, long time no see. Can confirm the protocol works for PSSD, I was at like 70-85% (maybe even 90% on upswings) recovered back in the end of 2019, then a lot of life stuff and the rona happened and I kind of fell off the wagon. If I had stuck with it I'm sure I would be 110% recovered by now. I'm planning to get back on the protocol soon once I can get some more pressing things in my life sorted out (currently have covid and about to become homeless lol, long story but I'll be fine)

[Cdsnuts]

Hey guys, long time no see. Can confirm the protocol works for PSSD, I was at like 70-85% (maybe even 90% on upswings) recovered back in the end of 2019, then a lot of life stuff and the rona happened and I kind of fell off the wagon. If I had stuck with it I'm sure I would be 110% recovered by now. I'm planning to get back on the protocol soon once I can get some more pressing things in my life sorted out (currently have covid and about to become homeless lol, long story but I'll be fine)

Thanks for the update! That's what makes this place a gem.

[DKnighten]

This SSRI crash has seemed to trigger a rapid onset of male pattern baldness. Prior to and with PFS, I always had a full head of thick and dark hair. All of my hair has thinned and i'm having rapid recession accompanied by an itching and burning scalp. I've lost almost half of the hair on my head in 2 months. I had zero shedding with PFS, my hair even filled in a little. So I guess on top of the anhedonia and shrunken genitals, i'm gonna go bald now as well.

[Flapjack]

It should go without saying but most of the dudes here are bald/going bald too. I shaved my head a year ago at the start of this and haven’t looked back. Chin up friend.

[isseo]

you don't care, you'll be bald no matter what the day you're cured of PFS/PSSD. You have to accept it. It's hard, but you can't save your hair if you regain your health and are destined to lose hair.

Bald + beard has charm, look at Philippe Etchebest

For my part I have a shitty beard, I will see if it improves with healing. And I'll do a beard transplant if needed.

[DKnighten]

you don't care, you'll be bald no matter what the day you're cured of PFS/PSSD. You have to accept it. It's hard, but you can't save your hair if you regain your health and are destined to lose hair.

Bald + beard has charm, look at Philippe Etchebest

For my part I have a shitty beard, I will see if it improves with healing. And I'll do a beard transplant if needed.

I was never even losing my hair. I've always had a full head of thick hair. My hair has completely changed texture and stopped growing within the past like month.

[Kashemir]

Same for me. Used Minoxidil for beard growth. The beard never grew, but almost all the hair fell out from my head. This is in addition to all the symptoms of PFS of course.
The hair was incredibly thick and without signs of alopcia.

[DKnighten]

Same for me. Used Minoxidil for beard growth. The beard never grew, but almost all the hair fell out from my head. This is in addition to all the symptoms of PFS of course.
The hair was incredibly thick and without signs of alopcia.
You’ve had no success in any hair growing back? It basically stopped growing?

[Kashemir]

No. Quickly and confidently moving towards complete baldness

[DKnighten]

No. Quickly and confidently moving towards complete baldness

That's really terrible man. But yeah I may be heading there as well now. Did you have any associated burning and itching of your hair? Mine is like something is constantly attacking it, or there's an itching and burning fungus under my scalp.

[road to recover]

Who cares at this point

[Kashemir]

I guess I have some kind of dermatitis or something on scalp, but it’s definitely not the main reason for hair to fall out

[DKnighten]

Who cares at this point

I care. Otherwise I wouldn't be posting about it. To have zero signs of hair shedding or hair loss and then having all of your hair falling out is kind of a big deal. On top of my other 20+ symptoms.

[Flapjack]

Your hair should be the least of your concerns with everything else you’ve detailed about your experience. It’s an aesthetic change. Most men bald anyways. Perhaps your hair loss might just be natural MPB setting in, SSRIs are not known to trigger hair loss at all.

[AltRoute]

Who cares at this point

True, but I don’t care what anybody says losing your hair in your teens and 20s is a bit shocking. Obviously our obsession with with vanity landed us here in this crap but it’s not an easy transition mentally for everyone unfortunately.

Dknighten - I don’t know if you have a beard or facial hair but embrace the baldness. I decided to recently shave my head after doing buzz cuts basically since my pfs crash in October and the ladies dig it. Now I have a good beard to begin with which looks better, but still

[DKnighten]

Your hair should be the least of your concerns with everything else you’ve detailed about your experience. It’s an aesthetic change. Most men bald anyways. Perhaps your hair loss might just be natural MPB setting in, SSRIs are not known to trigger hair loss at all.

It's absolutely not the natural progression of things. I had zero shedding and zero recession during the 3 and a half years with PFS. This is a complete texture change to my hair and dry, flaking skin all over my scalp. I have come across multiple reddit posts about people experiencing the same thing after taking Lexapro. SSRIs have a significant effect at the androgen receptor.
If my profile picture was showing, you' see that I've always had a very thick head of hair, it has to be thinned at pretty much every haircut. I'm not sure why my profile pic isn't showing.

[road to recover]

Im shedding hair which is something that never happened throughout many years of recovery in PFS, albeit not as much as you.

[DKnighten]

I took a Nordic Naturals Fish oil supplement with added vitamin D, and I forgot that I already took a 5000 IU vitamin D the same morning. I had not taken any vitamin D since the SSRI crash, as I read it's risky. Well its completely crashed me all over again. Loose, empty muscles, hair shedding is getting worse, lost more feeling in my genitals, and worse digestion issues. I'm almost at the end of my rope with all of this shit.

[road to recover]

Are you androgenic in any way?

[DKnighten]

Paddy stop commenting on my shit please. I blocked you for a reason.

[Zerolibido]

Paddy stop commenting on my shit please. I blocked you for a reason.
Fuck up gimp

[Zerolibido]

You said new four years hopefully not four more
I'd bite your hand off for.a.cure I. Four years

[Zerolibido]

for ten ducking years I had zero fatigue good energy and for the majority of it good libido
In fact innit morning erections back from.two thousand and eleven No libido but I had that masculine drive to get oiutb of bed.

Now like. A ducking exhausted eunuch

- - - Updated - - -

I have wakingbdreams like jruins
Zero energy fatigue et c
Terrible sleeping patterns
Physique destroyed
Brain fog
Fucking zero libido