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igetbuckets
12-04-2012, 05:29 PM
Trying to decide between a stack of Alpha Bulk at 12 caps per day with 3 tabs of 5-Alpha test, or an Alpha Bulk/Alpha Mass stack at 12 Alpha Bulk/6 Alpha Mass caps per day. I have asked before and gotten some really good insight, but just want to hear people's thoughts before I purchase. (Only PH I have ever run was AndroMass v3...with great results). Thanks in advance

BBG
12-04-2012, 06:28 PM
For those who don't know:

Alpha Mass = 1-dhea
Alpha Bulk = 4-dhea
5-Alpha Test = epiandrosterone (a-isomer)

I would stack all of them, personally. 1-DHEA is awesome in high enough doses. 4-DHEA is good as well, again at high doses. But the 5-alpha test would help with lethargy/libido while on the 1-dhea and/or 4-dhea.

igetbuckets
12-04-2012, 06:50 PM
For those who don't know:

Alpha Mass = 1-dhea
Alpha Bulk = 4-dhea
5-Alpha Test = epiandrosterone (a-isomer)

I would stack all of them, personally. 1-DHEA is awesome in high enough doses. 4-DHEA is good as well, again at high doses. But the 5-alpha test would help with lethargy/libido while on the 1-dhea and/or 4-dhea.

Any recommended dosages?

pitboss
12-04-2012, 06:51 PM
I'm rusty on my DHEA. Which one is closest to a " test base " or DHT-ish?

BR99TAL
12-04-2012, 07:01 PM
Any recommended dosages?
i think you should be okay at the recommended dose.


I'm rusty on my DHEA. Which one is closest to a " test base " or DHT-ish?
4-DHEA (according to eric)

igetbuckets
12-04-2012, 07:10 PM
[QUOTE=BR99TAL;4241]i think you should be okay at the recommended dose. QUOTE]

The recommended dose is pretty low tho isn't it? At least that's what I've heard when comparing it to Andromass

Sorrow
12-04-2012, 07:26 PM
I think your going to have to go on some trial and error here. Honestly my suggestion would be to start at the manufacturers recommended dosage to start for say 2-3 weeks then up the dosage a week at a time till you notice something. Also may want to contact them with your height/weight/body fat% as that may affect the recommendation and see what they respond with. (assuming they respond at all)

What did you run Andromass v3 at?

Please log your cycle or give a review at the end. As several of us have looked at these products but are unsure due to the lack of feedback currently available.

igetbuckets
12-04-2012, 08:01 PM
I think your going to have to go on some trial and error here. Honestly my suggestion would be to start at the manufacturers recommended dosage to start for say 2-3 weeks then up the dosage a week at a time till you notice something. Also may want to contact them with your height/weight/body fat% as that may affect the recommendation and see what they respond with. (assuming they respond at all)

What did you run Andromass v3 at?

Please log your cycle or give a review at the end. As several of us have looked at these products but are unsure due to the lack of feedback currently available.

I ran Andromass v3 solo in August at the recommended dose (6caps per day) for an 8 week cycle. I'm 6'4 and started at 225 ended at about 235 which was awesome because although i don't have the bodyfat percentages, the gains seemed to be mostly lean mass. Also had very good strength gains. This was my first time ever taking anything aside from protein powder and with PP going out of business I just want to find another similar combination of products.

BBG
12-04-2012, 08:11 PM
I ran Andromass v3 solo in August at the recommended dose (6caps per day) for an 8 week cycle. I'm 6'4 and started at 225 ended at about 235 which was awesome because although i don't have the bodyfat percentages, the gains seemed to be mostly lean mass. Also had very good strength gains. This was my first time ever taking anything aside from protein powder and with PP going out of business I just want to find another similar combination of products.

Check dose on the Andromass, check dose on the Androbulk/5-Alpha Test. You should be able to find out how much of the latter to take to equal andromass.

I'd up the dose though, as it's your second cycle.

igetbuckets
12-04-2012, 08:26 PM
Check dose on the Andromass, check dose on the Androbulk/5-Alpha Test. You should be able to find out how much of the latter to take to equal andromass.

I'd up the dose though, as it's your second cycle.

Just looked it up...
6 caps Andromass= 500mg of 4DHEA
6 caps AlphaBulk = 120mg of 4DHEA.

Am i really going to be taking 24 caps a day to get the same results??? I'm hoping one of you mad scientists can tell me about some compound in AlphaBulk that negates the huge difference! lol

BBG
12-04-2012, 10:18 PM
Just looked it up...
6 caps Andromass= 500mg of 4DHEA
6 caps AlphaBulk = 120mg of 4DHEA.

Am i really going to be taking 24 caps a day to get the same results??? I'm hoping one of you mad scientists can tell me about some compound in AlphaBulk that negates the huge difference! lol

It's well known that the FRL products are lower dosed, you just have to take a bunch more of the caps. Sorry bro!

FRL, I believe, just thinks more people will buy a 50 dollar bottle instead of a 200 dollar bottle. Whereas Eric/PP believed that a product should be "whole", ie, one bottle of Andromass is all you needed for a cycle.

nate3993
12-04-2012, 10:19 PM
Just looked it up...
6 caps Andromass= 500mg of 4DHEA
6 caps AlphaBulk = 120mg of 4DHEA.

Am i really going to be taking 24 caps a day to get the same results??? I'm hoping one of you mad scientists can tell me about some compound in AlphaBulk that negates the huge difference! lol

drink a bunch of grapefruit juice with it. that's about all u could do aside from upping the dose.

BBG
12-04-2012, 10:41 PM
drink a bunch of grapefruit juice with it. that's about all u could do aside from upping the dose.

They do have a complex similar to what Primordial used. So the grapefruit juice won't necessarily do much. They just sell less product per bottle.

Freepressright
12-05-2012, 07:37 AM
Personally, I would run a low-to-moderate dose of 1-DHEA because the lethargy is fairly severe and it's a motivation killer. Run a moderate-to-high dose of the 4-DHEA and run 5-Alpha Test at 5 per day as opposed to three.

The hardening effects of the 1-DHEA and DHT from the 5-Alpha together, the anabolic potency of the 1-DHEA and the 4-DHEA together and the synergistic mitigation of lethargy and loss of libido from the 4-DHEA and 5-Alpha test will be great together.

I do two 5-alpha Test tabs 2x per day and one before bed.

Grape Ape
12-05-2012, 07:58 AM
And if you were to add dermacrine as well...^^

markam
12-05-2012, 11:00 AM
I couldn't see a Androhard (stanodrol) type product by Forerunner or AMS, maybe I overlooked it, but if there isn't one, it'll be back to Stanodrol:(

nate3993
12-05-2012, 11:52 AM
I couldn't see a Androhard (stanodrol) type product by Forerunner or AMS, maybe I overlooked it, but if there isn't one, it'll be back to Stanodrol:(

5 alpha test from forerunner. it's epiandrosterone A isomer.

igetbuckets
12-05-2012, 01:04 PM
Sounds like at the end of the day, the Andro series really was the best bang for your buck...damn shame they got seized. I appreciate all the input guys!

ryansm
12-05-2012, 01:36 PM
If you can stand it the 1-DHEA is a monster in both mass and strength. The sides suck, but if you can mitigate it enough with 4-DHEA or epiandro then try and shoot for the highest dose you can stand.

FRL is a good company with quality ingredients; however, they will claim their delivery system is far superior (I disagree so does Eric and many others). I suggest you start out above the recommended dose though to keep price down you may want to try less than the conversions/comparisons I saw above.

Freepressright
12-05-2012, 01:43 PM
If you can stand it the 1-DHEA is a monster in both mass and strength.

This is true, and also why Primordial's original 1-T topical was THE SHIT! All the benefits with virtually none of the negative side effects. The 5-DHEA and pregenolone wiped out any libido loss and lethargy.

As we relate back to the AndroSeries, though, PP completely abandoned 1-DHEA because they couldn't mitigate the lethargy and loss of libido sides in AndroMass v1 with the dose of 4-DHEA. I've read others who have run Alpha Mass (1-DHEA) and Alpha Bulk (4-DHEA) complain that the 4-DHEA wasn't enough to mitigate the sides of the 1 isomer.

That's why personally I'd recommend a low to moderate dose of 1, a high dose of 4 and a high dose of Epi. If you aren't getting killed with sides, increase the dosage of the 1-DHEA incrementally.

Like you said, Ryan, the sides do suck. The lethargy is almost influenza-like at times.

Grape Ape
12-05-2012, 04:03 PM
Following most logs on Finaflex's 1-Alpha, I haven't seen 1 complaint of libido loss or lethargy. I've even asked a few running it.

BBG
12-05-2012, 06:16 PM
I agree with Ryan, I would run the 1-dhea as high as you can without feeling like death. And add 5-alpha test to mitigate the side effects.

Coolazice
12-05-2012, 06:41 PM
I would just pick up some Test E, Mast, Dbol, Var and save myself a bunch of money versus buying the wannabe's and the now rediculously overpriced Andro Series.

BBG
12-05-2012, 07:48 PM
I would just pick up some Test E, Mast, Dbol, Var and save myself a bunch of money versus buying the wannabe's and the now rediculously overpriced Andro Series.

Of course, but he's probably looking for the legal way :)

Coolazice
12-05-2012, 08:01 PM
Of course, but he's probably looking for the legal way :)

Maybe! But with the way that the FDA just treated Eric and the Andro Series, it's probably not going to bed long before all the copycat-wannabe's get lumped in and banned or are at the least treated like a banned substance too. Why waste precious time and money? Might as well go and just buy proven products right now!!! ;)

Freepressright
12-06-2012, 08:57 AM
Following most logs on Finaflex's 1-Alpha, I haven't seen 1 complaint of libido loss or lethargy. I've even asked a few running it.

I find that very surprising based on not only my own experience, but the myriad of AM v1 users who complained enough that they removed it from the formula.

I have had two separate bad experiences with 1-Andro/1-DHEA:

1. When taking 1-T oral (LV) in summer 2010. I had headaches, was sleepy and felt fluish. I had zero interest in sex. I 'could' perform, but it was boring and flat. I just couldn't get into it. I was also dosing AndroHard v1 at the time and it was not enough to offset it.

2. Last November after ceasing the Ultradrol the lethargy and libido loss from the 1-Andro crippled me. The 4-DHEA I was taking wasn't enough to mitigate.

My work partner also experienced the same sides when taking 1-Andro last year, and I've seen dozens of others complain of the sides.

Interesting about the Finaflex product, though.

h2s
12-06-2012, 09:02 AM
I find that very surprising based on not only my own experience, but the myriad of AM v1 users who complained enough that they removed it from the formula.

I have had two separate bad experiences with 1-Andro/1-DHEA:

1. When taking 1-T oral (LV) in summer 2010. I had headaches, was sleepy and felt fluish. I had zero interest in sex. I 'could' perform, but it was boring and flat. I just couldn't get into it. I was also dosing AndroHard v1 at the time and it was not enough to offset it.

2. Last November after ceasing the Ultradrol the lethargy and libido loss from the 1-Andro crippled me. The 4-DHEA I was taking wasn't enough to mitigate.

My work partner also experienced the same sides when taking 1-Andro last year, and I've seen dozens of others complain of the sides.

Interesting about the Finaflex product, though.

I never had an issue with v2 (there was no AMv1 - only v1 androseries was androhard), although there were plenty that did. 1-dhea seems to be somewhat problematic for many. But there were also those who sought out v2 at higher than retail costs post v3, because of the 1-dhea benefits, like Ryansm mentioned above.

I would say if you are going to use a 1-dhea, have something on hand you can swap in to your cycle in it's place, just in case.

Freepressright
12-06-2012, 09:30 AM
I never had an issue with v2 (there was no AMv1 - only v1 androseries was androhard), although there were plenty that did. 1-dhea seems to be somewhat problematic for many. But there were also those who sought out v2 at higher than retail costs post v3, because of the 1-dhea benefits, like Ryansm mentioned above.

I would say if you are going to use a 1-dhea, have something on hand you can swap in to your cycle in it's place, just in case.

I meant to say the first release of AndroMass contained 1-DHEA and it was later revised.

And by all means, I wouldn't start a cycle with 1-DHEA as the key ingredient without a plan B. For me and many others, the sides were severe. Everyone responds differently, but responding without sides is probably the exception and not the rule.

I may try it again in the future, but will go heavy on the 4-DHEA and epiandrosterone and 'ease in' with a low dose of the 1-DHEA. Synergy and tolerability are more important. I'd increase the 1-DHEA dose accordingly and see how the sides are treating me.

h2s
12-06-2012, 09:56 AM
Actual 1-Test has always interested me. My only concern is I heard the PIP is miserable, and I am not sure i would want to deal with that.

Freepressright
12-06-2012, 10:41 AM
We know methyl 1-test was a muscle builder of serious proportion. It would be nice to have it without the hepatoxicity.

ryansm
12-06-2012, 11:09 AM
Actual 1-Test has always interested me. My only concern is I heard the PIP is miserable, and I am not sure i would want to deal with that.

If you can get 1-Test cyp or a base then I suggest you get it:) Just make sure to run enough test with it

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I would just pick up some Test E, Mast, Dbol, Var and save myself a bunch of money versus buying the wannabe's and the now rediculously overpriced Andro Series.

Although I agree with your premise if I could get 1-Test either as a base or ester I would choose it all day for any hardcore AAS cycle the shit is that good imo

ryansm
12-06-2012, 11:12 AM
This is true, and also why Primordial's original 1-T topical was THE SHIT! All the benefits with virtually none of the negative side effects. The 5-DHEA and pregenolone wiped out any libido loss and lethargy.

As we relate back to the AndroSeries, though, PP completely abandoned 1-DHEA because they couldn't mitigate the lethargy and loss of libido sides in AndroMass v1 with the dose of 4-DHEA. I've read others who have run Alpha Mass (1-DHEA) and Alpha Bulk (4-DHEA) complain that the 4-DHEA wasn't enough to mitigate the sides of the 1 isomer.

That's why personally I'd recommend a low to moderate dose of 1, a high dose of 4 and a high dose of Epi. If you aren't getting killed with sides, increase the dosage of the 1-DHEA incrementally.

Like you said, Ryan, the sides do suck. The lethargy is almost influenza-like at times.
I can remember running 800-1000mgs of 1-Test in a TD for 8 weeks back in the day. Never solo though it was always stacked with 200mgs more 4AD so 1000-1200mgs. Add in TD 3aa and well lethargy didn't exist:)

Coolazice
12-06-2012, 11:15 AM
If you can get 1-Test cyp or a base then I suggest you get it:) Just make sure to run enough test with it

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Although I agree with your premise if I could get 1-Test either as a base or ester I would choose it all day for any hardcore AAS cycle the shit is that good imo

That's what I keep hearing. Is a 1:1 ratio of 1-Test and Test E the correct amount to offset some of the PIP?

Freepressright
12-06-2012, 01:17 PM
I can remember running 800-1000mgs of 1-Test in a TD for 8 weeks back in the day. Never solo though it was always stacked with 200mgs more 4AD so 1000-1200mgs. Add in TD 3aa and well lethargy didn't exist:)

Talk dirty to me!!!

How I miss days like that.

ryansm
12-07-2012, 12:11 PM
That's what I keep hearing. Is a 1:1 ratio of 1-Test and Test E the correct amount to offset some of the PIP?

Ya, with test a 1:1 works best

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Talk dirty to me!!!

How I miss days like that.

You and me both bud

Rulk
12-07-2012, 07:14 PM
Ya, with test a 1:1 works best

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You and me both bud

Add one more to the club. 1 test cyp makes my mouth water though...

weekend
12-07-2012, 08:50 PM
isn't 1-test supposed to be similar to tren without all the sides?

Coolazice
12-07-2012, 09:56 PM
isn't 1-test supposed to be similar to tren without all the sides?

I believe that is how Infamy described it.

Scope75
12-07-2012, 10:37 PM
All you guys talking about this and that makes me want to finally run some test and dbol.

Scope75
12-07-2012, 10:44 PM
Maybe with some var ran the last 6-8 weeks of a 16 week test cycle.

dacookiemonsta
12-10-2012, 10:28 AM
Check dose on the Andromass, check dose on the Androbulk/5-Alpha Test. You should be able to find out how much of the latter to take to equal andromass.

I'd up the dose though, as it's your second cycle.

What's going on with antaeus labs? Mecha was pull with little warning and now it appears ultra is gone... should I be buying a dozen trenazones while I can?