Turnover 25's road to kick PFS in the ass

[Turnover25]

Glycine helps because its effectively a gaba antagonist, gaba agonists over time will increase your brain fog.

That’s the first I’ve heard that, I’d imagine a GABA antagonist wouldn’t help anyone in general that’s deficient in GABA

[MungYarlon]

That’s the first I’ve heard that, I’d imagine a GABA antagonist wouldn’t help anyone in general that’s deficient in GABA

That's true anyway, but I'm almost certain glycine doesn't interact with the GABA receptor (since it's already an agonist for the glycine receptor), and the mechanism of action is the enhancement of 5-ar which increase allopregnanolone (that's what affects the GABA receptors).

[Alex_Italiano]

I've started taking 5mg of glicine plus magnesium two nights ago for sleep issue.
Have to say that there are some positive effects.

Is it dangerous taking glicine any night? Would my body build tolerance? I can't find Albizia or blue vervain here.

Cdsnuts

[MungYarlon]

I've started taking 5mg of glicine plus magnesium two nights ago for sleep issue.
Have to say that there are some positive effects.

Is it dangerous taking glicine any night? Would my body build tolerance? I can't find Albizia or blue vervain here.

Cdsnuts

Nah Alex, you usually take glycine at night, because it is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. Your body doesn't build tolerance to it either.

If you want something to replace Albizia or blue vervain you can try taurine, it's also inhibitory.

[Alex_Italiano]

But is it dangerous to inhibit these neurotransmitters? And which neurotransmitters are we talking about?

[LetsGo]

But is it dangerous to inhibit these neurotransmitters? And which neurotransmitters are we talking about?

Glycine is an amino acid, one of the building blocks of protein. It shouldn’t damage to your brain chemistry, in my opinion.

[MungYarlon]

But is it dangerous to inhibit these neurotransmitters? And which neurotransmitters are we talking about?

It's not a question of inhibiting them. It isn't like 5 alpha reductase inhibitors where you prevent something from happening. Rather inhibitory neurotransmitters, when they reach the receptor, in this case the glycine receptor, cause the brain to slow down. A big issue in what most people have is that the lack of allopreganolone means that the brain has issues slowing down, therefore meaning you will struggle to unwind, have insomnia, brain fog etc.

Going back to the first question, it isn't dangerous to take glycine.

[Queens1984]

It's not a question of inhibiting them. It isn't like 5 alpha reductase inhibitors where you prevent something from happening. Rather inhibitory neurotransmitters, when they reach the receptor, in this case the glycine receptor, cause the brain to slow down. A big issue in what most people have is that the lack of allopreganolone means that the brain has issues slowing down, therefore meaning you will struggle to unwind, have insomnia, brain fog etc.

Going back to the first question, it isn't dangerous to take glycine.

From what I’m reading up on about Glycine it looks like a AMAZING SUPPLEMENT and extremely POWERFUL.

[JoeP26]

I don’t touch this thread often, thought I’d weigh in with some test results. I took the same test as Joe and had nearly the exact same results, all of my neurotransmitters were tanked. Including GABA, serotonin, dopamine, you name it, all deficient. My hormones were all shooting through the roof, DHT, test, estrogen all sky high, at least in my urine, I don’t know what they’d look like on a blood test. If they were lower, I’d assume my body isn’t metabolizing hormones.

At least my T is back up, after I crashed I got my test levels tested, and I had the Test of a 96 year old man. And I’ve made great progress, so here we are.

For neurotransmitters, I’m not going to try to treat them. Anything having to do with neurotransmitters makes me worse, I can’t take L glutamine, L thianine, none of that stuff. I think it just causes a further imbalance for me. I’m just gonna stick to the protocol, prohormones for some neurosteroids, and cold showers to send that nice electric shock to the brain in hopes of it kickstarting my neurotransmitter production like you would while jumping an old, shitty broken down car back to life on the side of the highway. I’m that car 😂

Anyways, just started a probiotic and TUDCA. Seeing VERY positive results. One positive I’ve noticed is I’ve began dreaming again nightly. In my case, I think my condition is largely in my gut/organs, so I’m taking extra good care of them. I also just ended a nice 3 day water fast to oil some things up, and now I’m on the straight and narrow, following the protocol with zero cheating or indulging, I’m beyond all that now.

Also, just discovered Medjool dates and swapped them out for anything with artificial sugar during my backloading windows. HOW HAVE I NOT DISCOVERED THESE SOONER??? They taste like fucking candy. I’m obsessed.

Anyways. Only good stuff ahead boys.

Oh shit! You did the test too. It's crazy right? Several others tested as well and we all have the same patterns. Even the hormones. Mine were testing low-normal at serum but extremely high at urine. That's indicative of metabolizing hormones too quickly. You're literally just pissing them out before they can actually be utilized.

[JoeP26]

That's true anyway, but I'm almost certain glycine doesn't interact with the GABA receptor (since it's already an agonist for the glycine receptor), and the mechanism of action is the enhancement of 5-ar which increase allopregnanolone (that's what affects the GABA receptors).

Glycine agonizes the NMDA receptor. It also agonizes the glycine receptor, which is closely related to the GABAA receptor. Can't find anything that it directly plays on the GABAA receptor but it will indirectly increase agonism of it by stimulating production of Allopregnanolone.

[Queens1984]

Glycine agonizes the NMDA receptor. It also agonizes the glycine receptor, which is closely related to the GABAA receptor. Can't find anything that it directly plays on the GABAA receptor but it will indirectly increase agonism of it by stimulating production of Allopregnanolone.

How often do you Personally take the Glycine Joe?

[JoeP26]

How often do you Personally take the Glycine Joe?

Once a day at bedtime. 1g.

[Queens1984]

Once a day at bedtime. 1g.

Thanks buddy. I’m alittle curious why you only take 1g. I was told too take 5-10 g

[MungYarlon]

From what I’m reading up on about Glycine it looks like a AMAZING SUPPLEMENT and extremely POWERFUL.

Certainly it's a good supplement, but it's important to stack it with other things to get the best out of it. I'm going to cycle some low dose progesterone cream (should be coming tomorrow), and if all goes well I'll report back to you guys.

The logic here of course is that more progesterone will be converted to 5a-DHP and then into allopregnanolone. Then I'll boost the 5-ar enzyme with the glycine. Of course, at low dose (5mg) the anti-androgenic effects of progesterone won't be felt.

[Queens1984]

Certainly it's a good supplement, but it's important to stack it with other things to get the best out of it. I'm going to cycle some low dose progesterone cream (should be coming tomorrow), and if all goes well I'll report back to you guys.

The logic here of course is that more progesterone will be converted to 5a-DHP and then into allopregnanolone. Then I'll boost the 5-ar enzyme with the glycine. Of course, at low dose (5mg) the anti-androgenic effects of progesterone won't be felt.

I’m going too be Stacking it with Magnesium at night a few times a week. Please report back about the progesterone cream Brother...

[JoeP26]

Thanks buddy. I’m alittle curious why you only take 1g. I was told too take 5-10 g

Anything more made my nerves throughout my body tingle. 1g agrees with me the best.

[JoeP26]

You should've seen JoeP26 's reaction to my plan to take 16 grams of glycine lmao.
In all seriousness, I do feel that it's up to personal choice to be honest. Play around with the dosing and see what makes you feel beat.

That dose is insane. LOL! Whatever works for you though. Everyone is different.

[Queens1984]

Anything more made my nerves throughout my body tingle. 1g agrees with me the best.

Thanks buddy for the quick Reply. I will start off Low with the Magnesium at NIGHT.

[Turnover25]

Oh shit! You did the test too. It's crazy right? Several others tested as well and we all have the same patterns. Even the hormones. Mine were testing low-normal at serum but extremely high at urine. That's indicative of metabolizing hormones too quickly. You're literally just pissing them out before they can actually be utilized.

Yeah brotha we’ve been emailing about the tests results

[Turnover25]

Seems like my thread is pretty lively lately lol


Cdsnuts so the past couple of weeks, due to Michigan being freezing cold and my house as well some of the time, I start showers pretty warm/hot and end them by turning the water freezing cold. Any issues with that?

[JoeP26]

Yeah brotha we’ve been emailing about the tests results

Oh right! Sorry I talk to so many people it's hard to keep track of who's who.

[MungYarlon]

I’m going too be Stacking it with Magnesium at night a few times a week. Please report back about the progesterone cream Brother...

Sure thing. To be honest I'm looking forward to the progesterone cream. Tubzy, one of the former guys on this forum greatly benefited, as did JoeP26. Even the negative people on propeciahelp found that progesterone cream was useful to them.

[Turnover25]

Sure thing. To be honest I'm looking forward to the progesterone cream. Tubzy, one of the former guys on this forum greatly benefited, as did JoeP26. Even the negative people on propeciahelp found that progesterone cream was useful to them.

Something I’ve always wondered about trying. That and pregnenalone, which Jacknap said was greatly beneficial.

- - - Updated - - -


Oh right! Sorry I talk to so many people it's hard to keep track of who's who.

All good bro, I figured as much

[MungYarlon]

Something I’ve always wondered about trying. That and pregnenalone, which Jacknap said was greatly beneficial.

- - - Updated - - -



All good bro, I figured as much

Tried to edit my message and it glitched, and appears to have been deleted on my screen. Essentially I said that pregnenolone, for me, isn't as good a decision as progesterone because pregnenolone can also synthesise into pregnenolone sulfate, which is a negative allosteric modulator of GABA.

Progesterone however will only become 5-alpha reduced into 5a-DHP (a weak positive allosteric modulator) and then into Allo through the 3a-HSD enzyme.

Therefore progesterone feels like the most useful option.

[MungYarlon]

Tried to edit my message and it glitched, and appears to have been deleted on my screen. Essentially I said that pregnenolone, for me, isn't as good a decision as progesterone because pregnenolone can also synthesise into pregnenolone sulfate, which is a negative allosteric modulator of GABA.

Progesterone however will only become 5-alpha reduced into 5a-DHP (a weak positive allosteric modulator) and then into Allo through the 3a-HSD enzyme.

Therefore progesterone feels like the most useful option.

So, my progesterone cream did come today, and after showering I applied a dose (5mg) and took 10 grams of glycine with it. Within half an hour, to an hour I noticed I felt good (relaxed, comfortable, and now I don't have any brain fog).

Now, would I recommend this to people? It depends. The reason for this being that I consider myself to not be a particularly bad case, and it is possible that if you are in a bad state at the moment, you risk further creating an imbalance. Once you are making steady progress on the regimen, and looking to get even better, I don't see why not though.

I'll continue applying this cream, and hopefully the results keep getting better.

[JoeP26]

Sure thing. To be honest I'm looking forward to the progesterone cream. Tubzy, one of the former guys on this forum greatly benefited, as did JoeP26. Even the negative people on propeciahelp found that progesterone cream was useful to them.

Indeed. I love it. It's much better than Pregnenolone, tbh.

[Cdsnuts]

But is it dangerous to inhibit these neurotransmitters? And which neurotransmitters are we talking about?

Buddy.....anything I have listed on TMO is not dangerous. Think about it? Why would I put potentially dangerous supplements on a men's HEALTH website? Doesn't that go against what the point of the website is?

Come dude......

[MungYarlon]

Buddy.....anything I have listed on TMO is not dangerous. Think about it? Why would I put potentially dangerous supplements on a men's HEALTH website? Doesn't that go against what the point of the website is?

Come dude......

Lol xD

[Cdsnuts]

Certainly it's a good supplement, but it's important to stack it with other things to get the best out of it. I'm going to cycle some low dose progesterone cream (should be coming tomorrow), and if all goes well I'll report back to you guys.

The logic here of course is that more progesterone will be converted to 5a-DHP and then into allopregnanolone. Then I'll boost the 5-ar enzyme with the glycine. Of course, at low dose (5mg) the anti-androgenic effects of progesterone won't be felt.

I'm going on record here to say that progesterone isn't on the protocol. There is a reason for this. It can go the wrong way real quick if not monitored properly. Plus, it's just not necessary for recovery.

[Turnover25]

Bad news, boys. Took a hard fall in my hockey game and possibly have a sports hernia/abdominal tear. I have a nice lump/indentation on my left side of my groin/bladder area, sneezing/rolling over in bed, running or any movement is extremely painful. I have a doctors appointment next Friday to hopefully get an ultrasound, potentially I’ll need surgery.

Looks like HIIT is out of the question for at least 6-8 weeks, as far as right now, if I need surgery it’ll be more more. I can still weight lift, but nothing that engages my core. So no benching, squatting or compound lifts. Big set back, but a temporary one.


Anyone have any advice to make the most out of my situation? Especially Cdsnuts and Maxout777

[Mojo]

Do you have a good health insurance? When my abdominal hernia had go be stitched up they gave me 2 options: a lengthy surgery to sow it back together or an implementation of a little net to keep the guts from protruding. If u get the net it will probably be a limit on future workouts. At least this is what they told me about 12 years ago. Details might be foggy and I’m not a doctor but just a heads up.

[Turnover25]

Do you have a good health insurance? When my abdominal hernia had go be stitched up they gave me 2 options: a lengthy surgery to sow it back together or an implementation of a little net to keep the guts from protruding. If u get the net it will probably be a limit on future workouts. At least this is what they told me about 12 years ago. Details might be foggy and I’m not a doctor but just a heads up.

Yeah I have good insurance. I’m really hoping that isn’t the case, but you can see the lump area pretty clear. Thanks for the info.

[Maxout777]

Bad news, boys. Took a hard fall in my hockey game and possibly have a sports hernia/abdominal tear. I have a nice lump/indentation on my left side of my groin/bladder area, sneezing/rolling over in bed, running or any movement is extremely painful. I have a doctors appointment next Friday to hopefully get an ultrasound, potentially I’ll need surgery.

Looks like HIIT is out of the question for at least 6-8 weeks, as far as right now, if I need surgery it’ll be more more. I can still weight lift, but nothing that engages my core. So no benching, squatting or compound lifts. Big set back, but a temporary one.


Anyone have any advice to make the most out of my situation? Especially Cdsnuts and Maxout777

Just do as much as you can weightlifting wise and back off the HIIT of course. You can't hurt yourself more or this won't be beneficial, obviously. Calisthenics, stretching once you're able will be good. Tighten up that diet a bit, maybe less carbs with less exercise. Now's not the time to drink or be lax.

One thing I'd also recommend is BPC-157 (not something I would normally add to the protocol), for this instance only. It will speed up that recovery time great. You can either inject it into that area or take it orally. That's totally up to you.....it's great for the gut and dopamine system as well, so two other wins there. Could also inject TB500 into the area at the same time for double the recovery speed, but do your research.

I can't in good faith say it will not cause any additional issues in PFS state, as I've only used it after the fact, but it did dawn on me.

[Turnover25]

Just do as much as you can weightlifting wise and back off the HIIT of course. You can't hurt yourself more or this won't be beneficial, obviously. Calisthenics, stretching once you're able will be good. Tighten up that diet a bit, maybe less carbs with less exercise. Now's not the time to drink or be lax.

One thing I'd also recommend is BPC-157 (not something I would normally add to the protocol), for this instance only. It will speed up that recovery time great. You can either inject it into that area or take it orally. That's totally up to you.....it's great for the gut and dopamine system as well, so two other wins there. Could also inject TB500 into the area at the same time for double the recovery speed, but do your research.

I can't in good faith say it will not cause any additional issues in PFS state, as I've only used it after the fact, but it did dawn on me.

Maxout777 Interesting. Maybe I should inject that shit into my face to heal this damn brain fog. Lmao jk. Thanks for the advice brother. I’ll look into it. Any reason why I should avoid carbs? Do they have some sort of effect on your bodies healing abilities?

Also any ideas for some HIIT I can do without using my lower body? I’m pretty limited, can’t even sneeze without pain at the moment. But in the coming weeks/months I’d like to at least try to get creative with some HIIT. I was thinking maybe boxing without moving my hips much.

[Cdsnuts]

Maxout777 Interesting. Maybe I should inject that shit into my face to heal this damn brain fog. Lmao jk. Thanks for the advice brother. I’ll look into it. Any reason why I should avoid carbs? Do they have some sort of effect on your bodies healing abilities?

Also any ideas for some HIIT I can do without using my lower body? I’m pretty limited, can’t even sneeze without pain at the moment. But in the coming weeks/months I’d like to at least try to get creative with some HIIT. I was thinking maybe boxing without moving my hips much.

Can you shadow box?

[Turnover25]

Can you shadow box?

Just gave that a shot, seems to be fine. Looks like that will be my MO for a while.

I’ve evolved into something I never thought I’d be. The shadow box guy.

[MungYarlon]

Just gave that a shot, seems to be fine. Looks like that will be my MO for a while.

I’ve evolved into something I never thought I’d be. The shadow box guy.

If you can, wear 16 oz gloves when you do it. If you aren't used to them it will give a decent workout.

[Cdsnuts]

If you can, wear 16 oz gloves when you do it. If you aren't used to them it will give a decent workout.

Great idea.

- - - Updated - - -


Just gave that a shot, seems to be fine. Looks like that will be my MO for a while.

I’ve evolved into something I never thought I’d be. The shadow box guy.

Lol....don't get me started.

[Zonz]

Maxout777 Interesting. Maybe I should inject that shit into my face to heal this damn brain fog. Lmao jk. Thanks for the advice brother. I’ll look into it. Any reason why I should avoid carbs? Do they have some sort of effect on your bodies healing abilities?

Also any ideas for some HIIT I can do without using my lower body? I’m pretty limited, can’t even sneeze without pain at the moment. But in the coming weeks/months I’d like to at least try to get creative with some HIIT. I was thinking maybe boxing without moving my hips much.

I will say one thing, when I tore my shoulder rotator cuff, it did not heal until I added more carbs into my diet.

I think it's glucose. If that's low then nothing will heal in your body. Just fruit and veggies along with 1 carb meal a day wasn't enough for me to heal, personally.

[Maxout777]

Maxout777 Interesting. Maybe I should inject that shit into my face to heal this damn brain fog. Lmao jk. Thanks for the advice brother. I’ll look into it. Any reason why I should avoid carbs? Do they have some sort of effect on your bodies healing abilities?

Also any ideas for some HIIT I can do without using my lower body? I’m pretty limited, can’t even sneeze without pain at the moment. But in the coming weeks/months I’d like to at least try to get creative with some HIIT. I was thinking maybe boxing without moving my hips much.

I was only recommending avoiding carbs a bit just to keep your figure lean. You won't be lifting as heavy or going as hard so when I'm doing that I tend to keep the carbs leaner.

Either way - sounds like you're going to be a boxing professional here soon ;)

[Cdsnuts]

I will say one thing, when I tore my shoulder rotator cuff, it did not heal until I added more carbs into my diet.

I think it's glucose. If that's low then nothing will heal in your body. Just fruit and veggies along with 1 carb meal a day wasn't enough for me to heal, personally.

That's why backloading fits the bill.

[Turnover25]

I was only recommending avoiding carbs a bit just to keep your figure lean. You won't be lifting as heavy or going as hard so when I'm doing that I tend to keep the carbs leaner.

Either way - sounds like you're going to be a boxing professional here soon ;)

Lmao. Might have to get some fights scheduled here soon.

[Turnover25]

Planning on starting my next cycle on Saturday, quick question, do you guys think 10 weeks is too long to run? I stopped at around 5 weeks both of my first 2 and I felt I could keep going. I’d like to run a 10 week cycle, but not if anyone here thinks it’s a bad idea. I could always stop depending on how I felt also. Thoughts?

[Cdsnuts]

Planning on starting my next cycle on Saturday, quick question, do you guys think 10 weeks is too long to run? I stopped at around 5 weeks both of my first 2 and I felt I could keep going. I’d like to run a 10 week cycle, but not if anyone here thinks it’s a bad idea. I could always stop depending on how I felt also. Thoughts?

Do it.

But be flexible.

Don't do it so long that it drives you into the ground. You'll know. Just like you felt you could have kept going, you'll know when it's time for your body to stop and jump back on the herbs. Shoot for 8 weeks this time. I think where you're at right now.....ten MIGHT be pushing it.

Every week on cycle things start to happen in exponential structure....you'll be surprised at what a difference five weeks to eight makes.

[Turnover25]

Do it. But be flexible. Don't do it so long that it drives you into the ground. You'll know. Just like you felt you could have kept going, you'll know when it's time for your body to stop and jump back on the herbs. Shoot for 8 weeks this time. I think where you're at right now.....ten MIGHT be pushing it.

Every week on cycle things start to happen in exponential structure....you'll be surprised at what a difference five weeks to eight makes.

Cool, thanks man.

[Cdsnuts]

Cool, thanks man.

Did you start?

What exactly are you running again? Ultra Hard?

[Turnover25]

Did you start?

What exactly are you running again? Ultra Hard?

Not yet, Saturday. I’m starting with R Andro and switching to ultra hard.

[Turnover25]

Cdsnuts looking for some clarification. How essential to the protocol is bacopa? I have it and do take it sometimes but I feel like if I take it more than a couple days I always run into issues.

I was reading about jujubogenin and it’s effects on normalizing and fixing damaged GABA receptors, and kept seeing bacopa pop up because bacopa contains jujubogenin, and helps fix gaba receptors.

Is this an essential piece I’m missing? I have depleted gaba levels via urine tests, and I was about as bad as it gets neurologically. Maybe I should make a rotation of like once or twice a week? I already take thianine, gotu kola, vitamin d and sometimes lions mane. Just looking for some input.

[Mojo]

Cdsnuts looking for some clarification. How essential to the protocol is bacopa? I have it and do take it sometimes but I feel like if I take it more than a couple days I always run into issues.

I was reading about jujubogenin and it’s effects on normalizing and fixing damaged GABA receptors, and kept seeing bacopa pop up because bacopa contains jujubogenin, and helps fix gaba receptors.

Is this an essential piece I’m missing? I have depleted gaba levels via urine tests, and I was about as bad as it gets neurologically. Maybe I should make a rotation of like once or twice a week? I already take thianine, gotu kola, vitamin d and sometimes lions mane. Just looking for some input.

Personally I suspect bacopa to be fairly important. I remember reading some thread on PH back in the days of some dude that seemed very knowledgeable claiming bacopa was the backbone of his recovery. He backed it up with a lot of scientific articles and explanations. Could all be placebo or whatever, but I prefer the benefit of the doubt and megadose it. Apparently you should get bacognize or synapsa, as those have backed up scientific research.

Also a small question about UH. I’m 4 days into my UH cycle. Started 2 pumps, then 3, now 4. Eating a bunch more carbs to make sure I don’t run into trouble. But honestly I can’t feel the UH at all. Am I supposed to notice it doing something by now? If anything I kind of feel a bit weaker.

[Turnover25]

Personally I suspect bacopa to be fairly important. I remember reading some thread on PH back in the days of some dude that seemed very knowledgeable claiming bacopa was the backbone of his recovery. He backed it up with a lot of scientific articles and explanations. Could all be placebo or whatever, but I prefer the benefit of the doubt and megadose it. Apparently you should get bacognize or synapsa, as those have backed up scientific research.

Also a small question about UH. I’m 4 days into my UH cycle. Started 2 pumps, then 3, now 4. Eating a bunch more carbs to make sure I don’t run into trouble. But honestly I can’t feel the UH at all. Am I supposed to notice it doing something by now? If anything I kind of feel a bit weaker.

I remember reading that thread because someone brought it up here and I read it. Maybe I’ll add it in every few days or so. It just makes my brain fog worse, it’s like thinking through jelly or a blanket.

I didn’t feel ultra hard at first. It didn’t smack me in the face the way Super R Andro did, it may take a bit for you to feel it. Or you might not at all, everyone is different. Ultra hard took a while for me to feel, then would switch back and forth between euphoria, feeling great, then back to feeling nothing, great, nothing. I also felt weaker during that cycle. You’re actually going to be stronger while running it, but it didn’t feel that way. Also make sure you’re supplementing potassium. Might be why you feel weak.

[Cdsnuts]

I remember reading that thread because someone brought it up here and I read it. Maybe I’ll add it in every few days or so. It just makes my brain fog worse, it’s like thinking through jelly or a blanket.

I didn’t feel ultra hard at first. It didn’t smack me in the face the way Super R Andro did, it may take a bit for you to feel it. Or you might not at all, everyone is different. Ultra hard took a while for me to feel, then would switch back and forth between euphoria, feeling great, then back to feeling nothing, great, nothing. I also felt weaker during that cycle. You’re actually going to be stronger while running it, but it didn’t feel that way. Also make sure you’re supplementing potassium. Might be why you feel weak.

I would stick with the bacopa. I have no experience with the other herb so I can't, in good conscious recommend it. But if you're saying that it has the other compound in it, then what is the difference. You'll most likely experience the same effect seeing as that's the active compound.

Back down on the dose a bit if it's giving you issues. You should be cycling it as well. Not every few days.

[Turnover25]

I would stick with the bacopa. I have no experience with the other herb so I can't, in good conscious recommend it. But if you're saying that it has the other compound in it, then what is the difference. You'll most likely experience the same effect seeing as that's the active compound.

Back down on the dose a bit if it's giving you issues. You should be cycling it as well. Not every few days.

Sorry I wasn’t clear, it’s not another herb I’m asking about, I was researching and learned that bacopa contains an ingredient called jujubogenin that helps fix gaba receptors. So I was asking how crucial you think bacopa is for recovery, because it makes me feel bad. If you said it’s crucial I’d stick with it, but it was mostly a curiosity thing.

Are you saying take bacopa once every few weeks or more often? I could take it every 2 weeks or so and see how I feel.

[Cdsnuts]

Sorry I wasn’t clear, it’s not another herb I’m asking about, I was researching and learned that bacopa contains an ingredient called jujubogenin that helps fix gaba receptors. So I was asking how crucial you think bacopa is for recovery, because it makes me feel bad. If you said it’s crucial I’d stick with it, but it was mostly a curiosity thing.

Are you saying take bacopa once every few weeks or more often? I could take it every 2 weeks or so and see how I feel.

You should do both if it's giving you problems. Back down on the dose and cycle it rather then take it every couple days.

[Spigen17]

Hey man,

Just read this thread your recovery so far is massively motivating & will no doubt keep me going throughout my journey, from reading your earlier posts it seems like I'm in a similar place neurologically & mentally to the one you've been battling your way out of therefore any help & advice on things you were overly sensitive to (ie. herbs/foods) or general advice you wish someone could have given you in your early days I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks in advance

[Turnover25]

Hey man,

Just read this thread your recovery so far is massively motivating & will no doubt keep me going throughout my journey, from reading your earlier posts it seems like I'm in a similar place neurologically & mentally to the one you've been battling your way out of therefore any help & advice on things you were overly sensitive to (ie. herbs/foods) or general advice you wish someone could have given you in your early days I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks in advance

I love to hear that man. I kept my thread detailed in order to help people in the future.

As far as advice, the best I can think of right now that I wish I could have heard was start right away, just as CD laid it out for you. I wasted about 6-8 months initially getting drunk and hiding from the world. That’s a lot of lost time, just start right away, and for the first year or so, however it takes to feel a little bit better, don’t half ass it. Go as long as possible while being extremely strict, and then have some cheat days here and there later on when you’re out of the trenches.

Also, don’t skip over small things of the protocol like theanine and glycine. Those have helped me a lot, and I didn’t even use them until I was almost 2 years in. Your body is currently having issues with neurotransmitters more than likely, and those will really help you out. I had to moderate them and find the correct dosages that worked for me. I probably wouldn’t have waited so long to run prohormones either. Get on the herbs for like 3 months then try a cycle. Those are what helped me the most.

Go read English’s sticky about what stress does to you and memorize it. He was spot on. Even things like obsessively checking your cell phone to check swole source has an effect on dopamine which can throw things further out of whack. Calm your mind and go out and live while you recover.

Edit: probably the biggest thing is don’t experiment with other things that aren’t laid out, at least not now. Wait until your body is stable again and you’re at like 80% to try any other supplements, there is a reason they aren’t in the protocol. These forums have been around a long time, and these supplements have been narrowed down by many pfs’ers because they help, and many others (including me) have crashed back to oblivion by taking too much random stuff.

And honestly just have fun with it, I know the situation is horrible, but experiencing your health slowly return is a wonderful experience most people don’t often get to live, you’re going to be a better person for having beat PFS. And believe me, you’ll start to feel better.

Edit again: as far as herbs, a lot of them made me worse in the beginning. I almost binned like half of them, but eventually that changed and now I don’t have issues with them. I was sensitive to everything, that’ll change while your body adjusts. As far as food, generally if it doesn’t come from the ground I don’t eat it. I don’t eat grains, and the only sugar I eat is from fruit. You won’t have issues with gluten free stuff, I just like to stick to whole foods. Unless I’m on a prohormone cycle and I need carbs, then I eat gluten free muffins and bread and all that. But only when I really feel I need it. Carb backloading for me is mostly potatoes and dates.

[Cdsnuts]

Edit: probably the biggest thing is don’t experiment with other things that aren’t laid out, at least not now. Wait until your body is stable again and you’re at like 80% to try any other supplements, there is a reason they aren’t in the protocol. These forums have been around a long time, and these supplements have been narrowed down by many pfs’ers because they help, and many others (including me) have crashed back to oblivion by taking too much random stuff.

And honestly just have fun with it, I know the situation is horrible, but experiencing your health slowly return is a wonderful experience most people don’t often get to live, you’re going to be a better person for having beat PFS. And believe me, you’ll start to feel better.

Dead on.

Just wait. You're going to start feeling better then you've EVER felt before.....eventually. BLISS.

Looking forward to your recovery post, although that means you'll be leaving us, which would suck, but man.......just wait my friend.

My girl keeps telling me I should add to my landing page somewhere...."Turning duds into studs." I think it's kinda corny, she doesn't

[Turnover25]

Dead on.

Just wait. You're going to start feeling better then you've EVER felt before.....eventually. BLISS.

Looking forward to your recovery post, although that means you'll be leaving us, which would suck, but man.......just wait my friend.

My girl keeps telling me I should add to my landing page somewhere...."Turning duds into studs." I think it's kinda corny, she doesn't

Hahaha. Corny or not it’s the truth.

But you and me both man. I can hardly wait. Slowly things turn back on and remind me of how it used to be, I can’t imagine how it starts to feel once you get past the tipping point and start feeling better than before pfs. Must be weird watching the guys you mentor slowly come back to life then leave this place and move on. I’d be sure to check in every so often.

[Spigen17]

I love to hear that man. I kept my thread detailed in order to help people in the future. Hi

As far as advice, the best I can think of right now that I wish I could have heard was start right away, just as CD laid it out for you. I wasted about 6-8 months initially getting drunk and hiding from the world. That’s a lot of lost time, just start right away, and for the first year or so, however it takes to feel a little bit better, don’t half ass it. Go as long as possible while being extremely strict, and then have some cheat days here and there later on when you’re out of the trenches.

Also, don’t skip over small things of the protocol like theanine and glycine. Those have helped me a lot, and I didn’t even use them until I was almost 2 years in. Your body is currently having issues with neurotransmitters more than likely, and those will really help you out. I had to moderate them and find the correct dosages that worked for me. I probably wouldn’t have waited so long to run prohormones either. Get on the herbs for like 3 months then try a cycle. Those are what helped me the most.

Go read English’s sticky about what stress does to you and memorize it. He was spot on. Even things like obsessively checking your cell phone to check swole source has an effect on dopamine which can throw things further out of whack. Calm your mind and go out and live while you recover.

Edit: probably the biggest thing is don’t experiment with other things that aren’t laid out, at least not now. Wait until your body is stable again and you’re at like 80% to try any other supplements, there is a reason they aren’t in the protocol. These forums have been around a long time, and these supplements have been narrowed down by many pfs’ers because they help, and many others (including me) have crashed back to oblivion by taking too much random stuff.

And honestly just have fun with it, I know the situation is horrible, but experiencing your health slowly return is a wonderful experience most people don’t often get to live, you’re going to be a better person for having beat PFS. And believe me, you’ll start to feel better.

Edit again: as far as herbs, a lot of them made me worse in the beginning. I almost binned like half of them, but eventually that changed and now I don’t have issues with them. I was sensitive to everything, that’ll change while your body adjusts. As far as food, generally if it doesn’t come from the ground I don’t eat it. I don’t eat grains, and the only sugar I eat is from fruit. You won’t have issues with gluten free stuff, I just like to stick to whole foods. Unless I’m on a prohormone cycle and I need carbs, then I eat gluten free muffins and bread and all that. But only when I really feel I need it. Carb backloading for me is mostly potatoes and dates.

Much appreciated for this man. I’ve been in that sort of phase for the past few months.. sort of trying all the things that used to work to ease anxiety / low moods in the past to no avail. Taking the bull by the horns & following the protocol seems to be the only option now.

Noted all these bits down, I’ve ordered the theanine & glycine and will start them after my juice feast ends at the weekend. Will start at low dose & see what works - I presume it’s sensible to only try one supp per day at first to work out what works for you? I think I read you had some success with zinc & magnesium - don’t suppose yourself or CD knows if ZMA is cool? I have some of that I bought a while back.

Yeah the English post is one that stuck out for me too, I must admit at this stage my brain is still a little fried so was quite a lot of information to take in but I’ve copied it into my notes to check back on when times get tough.

Top man for all the bits on diet, herbs, hormones etc - I do seem to be able to tolerate a few more foods than at the start - so I take it that’s a positive sign things are improving.

[Turnover25]

Much appreciated for this man. I’ve been in that sort of phase for the past few months.. sort of trying all the things that used to work to ease anxiety / low moods in the past to no avail. Taking the bull by the horns & following the protocol seems to be the only option now.

Noted all these bits down, I’ve ordered the theanine & glycine and will start them after my juice feast ends at the weekend. Will start at low dose & see what works - I presume it’s sensible to only try one supp per day at first to work out what works for you? I think I read you had some success with zinc & magnesium - don’t suppose yourself or CD knows if ZMA is cool? I have some of that I bought a while back.

Yeah the English post is one that stuck out for me too, I must admit at this stage my brain is still a little fried so was quite a lot of information to take in but I’ve copied it into my notes to check back on when times get tough.

Top man for all the bits on diet, herbs, hormones etc - I do seem to be able to tolerate a few more foods than at the start - so I take it that’s a positive sign things are improving.

That was Vit D and Magnesium that helped me back in the day, I still take both sometimes. Zinc made me way worse, I’d probably avoid it due to its 5-AR inhibiting properties, some people do well with it though.

[Cdsnuts]

Much appreciated for this man. I’ve been in that sort of phase for the past few months.. sort of trying all the things that used to work to ease anxiety / low moods in the past to no avail. Taking the bull by the horns & following the protocol seems to be the only option now.

Noted all these bits down, I’ve ordered the theanine & glycine and will start them after my juice feast ends at the weekend. Will start at low dose & see what works - I presume it’s sensible to only try one supp per day at first to work out what works for you? I think I read you had some success with zinc & magnesium - don’t suppose yourself or CD knows if ZMA is cool? I have some of that I bought a while back.

Yeah the English post is one that stuck out for me too, I must admit at this stage my brain is still a little fried so was quite a lot of information to take in but I’ve copied it into my notes to check back on when times get tough.

Top man for all the bits on diet, herbs, hormones etc - I do seem to be able to tolerate a few more foods than at the start - so I take it that’s a positive sign things are improving.

ZMA is hit or miss depending on your current levels. It all comes down to the zinc with this one. For me, at first it worked great, but as the zinc built up I started feeling worse.

You can use it, but use it once or twice a week, tops.

[Turnover25]

Hey guys. Just wanted to check in and let everyone know that I’m no longer suffering. I still have PFS and I am not out of the woods but I no longer live in fear or despair. I have a lot of friends, a good job, hobbies, I do very well with women, even the ones out of my league just due to the confidence and health I’ve obtained from this, I’m enjoying my life, loving the protocol and these pro hormone cycles, learned a lot about myself, it’s going really well. I’m telling you man.. I have been through the absolute worst of it. I’m not sure this condition gets much worse than what I’ve experienced. So for everyone living in the shitty state I was in just a year ago, hold on. It gets better. And you’re gonna be fine. So much love for all of you.

I’ll update here and there but I really want to stay off these forums. Just keep your hope alive, you’re all gonna make it out.

[xxaleksi]

Great fucking job dude. It's an amazing feeling after years of suffering. Well deserved.

[Maximilien]

This is heart warming. Huge respect

[Turnover25]

Great fucking job dude. It's an amazing feeling after years of suffering. Well deserved.

I couldn’t have come this far without you dude. Thanks so much.

- - - Updated - - -


This is heart warming. Huge respect

Glad I could send some positive vibes your way. Keep on trucking my friend.

[Comewhatmay]

Hey guys. Just wanted to check in and let everyone know that I’m no longer suffering. I still have PFS and I am not out of the woods but I no longer live in fear or despair. I have a lot of friends, a good job, hobbies, I do very well with women, even the ones out of my league just due to the confidence and health I’ve obtained from this, I’m enjoying my life, loving the protocol and these pro hormone cycles, learned a lot about myself, it’s going really well. I’m telling you man.. I have been through the absolute worst of it. I’m not sure this condition gets much worse than what I’ve experienced. So for everyone living in the shitty state I was in just a year ago, hold on. It gets better. And you’re gonna be fine. So much love for all of you.

I’ll update here and there but I really want to stay off these forums. Just keep your hope alive, you’re all gonna make it out.

Amazing to hear brother. Your story was one i was heavily invested in, especially during my dark days and to see how far you've come is brilliant to hear. Your inevitable recovery post will be an emotional one for all I'm sure. Onwards and upwards you legend!

[Turnover25]

Amazing to hear brother. Your story was one i was heavily invested in, especially during my dark days and to see how far you've come is brilliant to hear. Your inevitable recovery post will be an emotional one for all I'm sure. Onwards and upwards you legend!

Man, can’t tell you how much I appreciate that. Keep on fighting the good fight man.

[Maxout777]

Brought a tear to my salty old eyes today, my friend. So fucking happy for you.

Hope life is good to you my friend. You've earned it.

[Turnover25]

Brought a tear to my salty old eyes today, my friend. So fucking happy for you.

Hope life is good to you my friend. You've earned it.

Man, I owe a HUGE debt to you. You’ve helped me so much through all this. Much love my friend.

[Outlaw]

Hey man we didn't interact much but you were the first one to reply to my log this winter, and I must've read all of your posts, so I feel like I know you a bit.

Really inspiring to see how far you came; if you can do it everyone can. Sometimes I catch myself being depressed about my tinnitus or low libido but it's nothing compared to what you had, and you overcame it.

We're strangers on a forum board but I'm happy for you man

[Zonz]

Hell yeah dude.

I also just had my first real upturn yesterday and this morning. It's gone now but it gets me excited knowing that I'm on the right path.

Kick life's ass my friend.

[Turnover25]

Hey man we didn't interact much but you were the first one to reply to my log this winter, and I must've read all of your posts, so I feel like I know you a bit.

Really inspiring to see how far you came; if you can do it everyone can. Sometimes I catch myself being depressed about my tinnitus or low libido but it's nothing compared to what you had, and you overcame it.

We're strangers on a forum board but I'm happy for you man

Very happy to hear that man, I spent a lot of time documenting my experiences knowing it would help others in the future. Keep on keeping on my friend, nothing but great things ahead.

- - - Updated - - -


Hell yeah dude.

I also just had my first real upturn yesterday and this morning. It's gone now but it gets me excited knowing that I'm on the right path.

Kick life's ass my friend.

You’re absolutely on the right path my man. Same goes to you, kick this thing in the ass. You got this.

[Cdsnuts]

What a bunch of heart warming posts from a bunch of dudes no less. Respect. For all of you guys. You guys are what make this place what it is.

I'm beyond happy for you Turnover. Your log was detailed and meticulous and I guarantee it will be helping guys YEARS from now.

Please come back and make your recovery post (when appropriate of course)

A great end to a great log!

[LetsGo]

Hey guys. Just wanted to check in and let everyone know that I’m no longer suffering. I still have PFS and I am not out of the woods but I no longer live in fear or despair. I have a lot of friends, a good job, hobbies, I do very well with women, even the ones out of my league just due to the confidence and health I’ve obtained from this, I’m enjoying my life, loving the protocol and these pro hormone cycles, learned a lot about myself, it’s going really well. I’m telling you man.. I have been through the absolute worst of it. I’m not sure this condition gets much worse than what I’ve experienced. So for everyone living in the shitty state I was in just a year ago, hold on. It gets better. And you’re gonna be fine. So much love for all of you.

I’ll update here and there but I really want to stay off these forums. Just keep your hope alive, you’re all gonna make it out.

Congrats, man! You deserve this! :)

[Turnover25]

What a bunch of heart warming posts from a bunch of dudes no less. Respect. For all of you guys. You guys are what make this place what it is.

I'm beyond happy for you Turnover. Your log was detailed and meticulous and I guarantee it will be helping guys YEARS from now.

Please come back and make your recovery post (when appropriate of course)

A great end to a great log!

Thank you my man. For EVERYTHING. I’d still be in the trenches without you, you can’t see the impact your efforts are making through your phone screen, but you had a huge impact on my life.

That being said, I’m still keeping this log going until I’m 100%. I still have PFS but I’ve turned the corner and finally hit the point where I realize that this thing has an end. I’m currently 10 weeks on cycle, shooting for 14 weeks so we will have to wait and see how the snap back treats me. I’m feeling good now, excited to see how things are when my body is back and fully adjusted after ending cycle. Currently sort of run down, but not so much that I need to stop.

[Turnover25]

Hey guys, dropping by to say I’m sick, I haven’t been “actually” sick in over 2 years, besides my crashes which gave me fevers and headaches, but not a “normal” sickness. I have a sore throat, runny nose, tired, general cold symptoms.

Got a covid test so we will see the results, but even if it’s covid I’m surprised to be sick in the first place since it’s been so long. Hoping this is a good sign.

[Zonz]

It’s probably a good sign that you’re getting sick again. I have the same problem, I’ve never gotten actually sick for longer than a few hours since I crashed.

[Turnover25]

Tested negative for corona, so my body is able to get normal sick now. Good stuff

[Cdsnuts]

Thank you my man. For EVERYTHING. I’d still be in the trenches without you, you can’t see the impact your efforts are making through your phone screen, but you had a huge impact on my life.

That being said, I’m still keeping this log going until I’m 100%. I still have PFS but I’ve turned the corner and finally hit the point where I realize that this thing has an end. I’m currently 10 weeks on cycle, shooting for 14 weeks so we will have to wait and see how the snap back treats me. I’m feeling good now, excited to see how things are when my body is back and fully adjusted after ending cycle. Currently sort of run down, but not so much that I need to stop.

You are very welcome my friend.

[Turnover25]

Hey dudes.

Little update, next week I’m packing up all my shit and moving from Michigan to Colorado. I’ve put this on the back burner since I crashed because I simply wasn’t able to function enough to do it. I had to put my life on hold... for years. As soon as I began feeling a little better I started applying for jobs. A little over a year ago, I couldn’t even speak a coherent sentence, could barely leave my house, couldn’t function. Now I’m steady into my career, and I just got a great job out in Denver as an accountant making good money, got a nice place, and I’m gonna go ride my motorcycle in the mountains and live my fucking life. Taking the protocol with me of course.

Decided that I am no longer allowing this to keep me from following my dreams. I wouldn’t have been able to do this without all you guys, so thank you. I simply did what you all suggested I do, and now I’ve improved enough to go do what I’ve always wanted to. Keep pushing boys!!!

[Cdsnuts]

Hey dudes.

Little update, next week I’m packing up all my shit and moving from Michigan to Colorado. I’ve put this on the back burner since I crashed because I simply wasn’t able to function enough to do it. I had to put my life on hold... for years. As soon as I began feeling a little better I started applying for jobs. A little over a year ago, I couldn’t even speak a coherent sentence, could barely leave my house, couldn’t function. Now I’m steady into my career, and I just got a great job out in Denver as an accountant making good money, got a nice place, and I’m gonna go ride my motorcycle in the mountains and live my fucking life. Taking the protocol with me of course.

Decided that I am no longer allowing this to keep me from following my dreams. I wouldn’t have been able to do this without all you guys, so thank you. I simply did what you all suggested I do, and now I’ve improved enough to go do what I’ve always wanted to. Keep pushing boys!!!

And IF you keep doing what you're supposed to be doing, you will eventually feel better then you EVER have.

Great job my man.

[Turnover25]

Cdsnuts wasn’t there a sticky for a super R Andro transdermal? It was the alternative prohormone sticky. Is that no longer a thing?

[Jado]

T25. Man, so stoked you are doing so much better! Always great to hear people getting over this crap. Had a quick question for you, as we're similar in neuro sides being the worst symptom we experience.

Was there anything in addition to the protocol that you feel helped your dizziness? I feel like if I could get rid of the dizziness I would be 99%. When I'm in an upswing I feel close to 100, and I think "this is it, I'm past this", then I get hit with dizziness again. It is definitely better than when it first began, so I'm stoked about that, I'm just ready for it to be gone completely.

Anyway, glad to hear about your progress!

[Turnover25]

T25. Man, so stoked you are doing so much better! Always great to hear people getting over this crap. Had a quick question for you, as we're similar in neuro sides being the worst symptom we experience.

Was there anything in addition to the protocol that you feel helped your dizziness? I feel like if I could get rid of the dizziness I would be 99%. When I'm in an upswing I feel close to 100, and I think "this is it, I'm past this", then I get hit with dizziness again. It is definitely better than when it first began, so I'm stoked about that, I'm just ready for it to be gone completely.

Anyway, glad to hear about your progress!

Yeah dude this was a tough one for me, it’s gonna go away extremely slow. For me I think it was the prohormone cycles, I’ve gotten better and better neurologically after each cycle. Still mildly there but nowhere near as bad.

[Jado]

Yeah dude this was a tough one for me, it’s gonna go away extremely slow. For me I think it was the prohormone cycles, I’ve gotten better and better neurologically after each cycle. Still mildly there but nowhere near as bad.

Thanks for the reply. I'm in a downswing currently, but I plan to attempt another prohormone cycle when I'm back up. Unfortunately, I seem to be very sensitive to prohormones. We'll see how it goes on my next cycle.
In one of your previous posts you mentioned methylated vitamins...do you think that had any impact on your dizziness?

[Turnover25]

Thanks for the reply. I'm in a downswing currently, but I plan to attempt another prohormone cycle when I'm back up. Unfortunately, I seem to be very sensitive to prohormones. We'll see how it goes on my next cycle.
In one of your previous posts you mentioned methylated vitamins...do you think that had any impact on your dizziness?

I’d hesitantly say yes, but after months of trial and error and extra suffering induced because of them. I’d steer clear from the methylated vitamins imo. They could either help you slightly, or send you falling into a hellish spiral.

I was also sensitive to the prohormones and had some nasty reactions, but I just stuck with them. Keep in my I’ve done 3 cycles and my last one was 12 weeks, over the course of a year. So it was gradual, slow improvement over that time.

[Jado]

I’d hesitantly say yes, but after months of trial and error and extra suffering induced because of them. I’d steer clear from the methylated vitamins imo. They could either help you slightly, or send you falling into a hellish spiral.

I was also sensitive to the prohormones and had some nasty reactions, but I just stuck with them. Keep in my I’ve done 3 cycles and my last one was 12 weeks, over the course of a year. So it was gradual, slow improvement over that time.

Ok, thanks man. I'll just avoid them.

It's encouraging to know you had issues with the prohormones too. I'm gonna go really light on my next cycle. I feel pretty good most days, and I feel if I didn't still get intermittent dizziness I would be recovered. Anyway, keep at it.

[Turnover25]

Ok, thanks man. I'll just avoid them.

It's encouraging to know you had issues with the prohormones too. I'm gonna go really light on my next cycle. I feel pretty good most days, and I feel if I didn't still get intermittent dizziness I would be recovered. Anyway, keep at it.

Yeah man I do love cycling, but I definitely have a hard time with it sometimes. I cut my last cycle early because I started feeling general malaise and just all around shitty, and the beginning of my cycles can be hellish sometimes. My second one comes to mind. But a couple months after your cycle the benefits start to come out of the woodwork and you realize why you did it.

[Mojo]

I’m 2 weeks into my second UH cycle and I’m starting to feel severely depressed and sad. Thinking of ending it prematurely and saving the latter half of the bottle for a future go. Thoughts?

Also, not sure if this is relevant but: I’m getting hit with this wave of extreme fatigue and tiredness in the afternoon.

Sort of comical that I’m getting none of the common UH effects.

[Turnover25]

I’m 2 weeks into my second UH cycle and I’m starting to feel severely depressed and sad. Thinking of ending it prematurely and saving the latter half of the bottle for a future go. Thoughts?

Also, not sure if this is relevant but: I’m getting hit with this wave of extreme fatigue and tiredness in the afternoon.

Sort of comical that I’m getting none of the common UH effects.

Sounds like a downswing, that should pass in my experience. The depression may last longer, it does for me, but I’d stick it out if you can.

[Mojo]

Sounds like a downswing, that should pass in my experience. The depression may last longer, it does for me, but I’d stick it out if you can.

I’d like to tbh. But the next 2 weeks I’ll be abroad a lot unexpectedly. And I don’t feel like bringing a bottle of illicit goods in my suitcase passing a bunch of airport security stations.

Hopefully a cycle of 2 weeks is better than nothing?

[Maxout777]

I’d like to tbh. But the next 2 weeks I’ll be abroad a lot unexpectedly. And I don’t feel like bringing a bottle of illicit goods in my suitcase passing a bunch of airport security stations.

Hopefully a cycle of 2 weeks is better than nothing?

Illicit goods? I’ve traveled both internationally and domestically with prohormones. Just check the bag. This isn’t cocaine or heroin, the TSA/global customs people don’t give two shits about PEDs. I think you’ll be fine my man.

[Mojo]

Illicit goods? I’ve traveled both internationally and domestically with prohormones. Just check the bag. This isn’t cocaine or heroin, the TSA/global customs people don’t give two shits about PEDs. I think you’ll be fine my man.

Hmm, all I know it’s illegal to import here and in most european countries. But I confess I have generally no idea whats what when it comes to these things.

Still tho, just in case, does 2 weeks count for anything at all?

[Turnover25]

Hey Maxout, sorry for asking here, as I am unable to dm you, but I still haven’t recieved an answer for this question, but is it fine to vape while on a fast?

- - - Updated - - -

Makes the difference between being suicidal and easy going even, 2 days into a water cleanse. Let me know

No dude do not do that lmao

[Maxout777]

Hey Maxout, sorry for asking here, as I am unable to dm you, but I still haven’t recieved an answer for this question, but is it fine to vape while on a fast?

- - - Updated - - -

Makes the difference between being suicidal and easy going even, 2 days into a water cleanse. Let me know

Yeah, what Turnover said. Don’t do it. Your whole goal of a cleanse is to cleanse. Why would you put toxins back in your body as you do so?

As someone who used smokeless for well over a decade, I get it. But just kick the habit. I finally did two years ago now and I couldn’t be happier.

[Turnover25]

Never realized how good of a herb royal jelly was. I’ve taken it daily for about 6 days, along with my herb rotation, felt great every day.

[HOPE]

Got you both. I’ve still only had bone broth - as I feel fairly good on this mini-fast. Might go the distance now, for 7 more days.

[Turnover25]

Got you both. I’ve still only had bone broth - as I feel fairly good on this mini-fast. Might go the distance now, for 7 more days.

You got this bro

[HOPE]

Thanks for the support. I did however want to ask - I’ve been thinking of taking a low dose (2.5 - 5mg) of p5p (activated b6). What do you think? I want to take it to lower Prolactin levels, but also for the supposed hair / energy benefits. Let me know.
I heard there is a test I have to take prior to see if it would react negatively to me?

[Turnover25]

Thanks for the support. I did however want to ask - I’ve been thinking of taking a low dose (2.5 - 5mg) of p5p (activated b6). What do you think? I want to take it to lower Prolactin levels, but also for the supposed hair / energy benefits. Let me know.
I heard there is a test I have to take prior to see if it would react negatively to me?

Vitamin B6 makes me feel like shit and it can also cause nerve damage if you take it too often. I’d just get it from food man. You could give it a shot but if it hurts you then you’re stuck with a new problem.

[HOPE]

Vitamin B6 makes me feel like shit and it can also cause nerve damage if you take it too often. I’d just get it from food man. You could give it a shot but if it hurts you then you’re stuck with a new problem.

What tests should I take? I’m really trying to bring down my prolactin levels. I have sufficient b12, not sure about b6, but if there’s any steps I can take to make sure this won’t crash me, I’d do it. It’s around 100%-200% of dv. I know I’m a neurotic asshole, but let me know if there’s anything I can do prior.

[Turnover25]

What tests should I take? I’m really trying to bring down my prolactin levels. I have sufficient b12, not sure about b6, but if there’s any steps I can take to make sure this won’t crash me, I’d do it. It’s around 100%-200% of dv. I know I’m a neurotic asshole, but let me know if there’s anything I can do prior.

Vitamin deficiency test? Idk man. 23 and me has genetic tests to tell if you’re genetically disposed to need specific b vitamins as well. That’s what I did to find out my body doesn’t create folate (B9) correctly

[Cdsnuts]

Never realized how good of a herb royal jelly was. I’ve taken it daily for about 6 days, along with my herb rotation, felt great every day.

Good, fresh Royal Jelly is one of my favorite "all around" supp. Like you said, just makes you feel good. AND it's loaded with beneficial goodies.

- - - Updated - - -


What tests should I take? I’m really trying to bring down my prolactin levels. I have sufficient b12, not sure about b6, but if there’s any steps I can take to make sure this won’t crash me, I’d do it. It’s around 100%-200% of dv. I know I’m a neurotic asshole, but let me know if there’s anything I can do prior.

Mucuna Pruriens | Total Male Optimization (https://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/testosterone-boosting-supplement-rotation/mucuna-pruriens/)

This herb antagonizes prolactin.

[Cdsnuts]

Ok, thanks man. I'll just avoid them.

It's encouraging to know you had issues with the prohormones too. I'm gonna go really light on my next cycle. I feel pretty good most days, and I feel if I didn't still get intermittent dizziness I would be recovered. Anyway, keep at it.

Man....if you're feeling good most days, then you should post that too....not just the negs. That's the shit that keeps morale high and people recovering.

[Comewhatmay]

[QUOTE=Cdsnuts;69574]Good, fresh Royal Jelly is one of my favorite "all around" supp. Like you said, just makes you feel good. AND it's loaded with beneficial goodies.

This herb I've overlooked yet T25s testimonial is too good to ignore so I managed to get hold of the royal jelly recommended by TMO and based of one of CDs old posts I plan to use it for a month straight and then use pine pollen for a month straight so somewhat cycled if you will so just like the herb rotation they both will last that much longer

[Turnover25]

Might hop on cycle #4 tomorrow. Been 7 weeks off, sick of waiting

[Zonz]

I tend to feel worse on cycle. I’m on herbs right now and feel very content, had a few strong erections since quitting dairy. (Hopefully for good)

When I’m on cycle the scar tissue in my back tends to grow which is rather painful... not that I’m terrified of cycle #3 coming up for me, I’ll do it, I just need to get the scar tissue taken care of and maybe release some of the extra energy into more intensive exercise.

[Turnover25]

I tend to feel worse on cycle. I’m on herbs right now and feel very content, had a few strong erections since quitting dairy. (Hopefully for good)

When I’m on cycle the scar tissue in my back tends to grow which is rather painful... not that I’m terrified of cycle #3 coming up for me, I’ll do it, I just need to get the scar tissue taken care of and maybe release some of the extra energy into more intensive exercise.

I’m very much the opposite, I absolutely love cycling.

Weird stuff for sure though, man.

[Turnover25]

Started cycle #4 today. Starting with some Super R Andro I managed to score online, then moving to UltraHard, then back to super R Andro to finish.

Not gonna make a thread for this one, I’ll put anything I need to document on here. Felt pretty run down emotion wise and libido wise the past week or 2, might be too early to start cycle but I’ve been off for 7 weeks and I’m tired of waiting.

Kinda hindered progress on my other cycles by getting drunk, this time it’s straight and narrow. Leggo

[Brooks]

Started cycle #4 today. Starting with some Super R Andro I managed to score online, then moving to UltraHard, then back to super R Andro to finish.

Not gonna make a thread for this one, I’ll put anything I need to document on here. Felt pretty run down emotion wise and libido wise the past week or 2, might be too early to start cycle but I’ve been off for 7 weeks and I’m tired of waiting.

Kinda hindered progress on my other cycles by getting drunk, this time it’s straight and narrow. Leggo

Wasn’t your last cycle like 10 weeks? It’s recommended you do as much time off cycle as how long your previous cycle was.

Curious, is there a reason you run some R-andro and not pure UH the whole time? Do you notice benefits over one or the other? I’ve only ran 2 UH cycles and love it, get some insomnia though so R-Andro interests me for my 3rd.

[Turnover25]

Wasn’t your last cycle like 10 weeks? It’s recommended you do as much time off cycle as how long your previous cycle was.

Curious, is there a reason you run some R-andro and not pure UH the whole time? Do you notice benefits over one or the other? I’ve only ran 2 UH cycles and love it, get some insomnia though so R-Andro interests me for my 3rd.

I’m aware, just gonna go for it.

I notice different benefits of each. But I like R Andro more, epi makes me jittery.

[Maxout777]

I’m aware, just gonna go for it.

I notice different benefits of each. But I like R Andro more, epi makes me jittery.

You should be fine. I cut the timeline short between between my third and fourth cycle, and considered myself recovered after my fourth. Of course, YMMV, but wanted to throw my experience in for what it's worth.

[Turnover25]

You should be fine. I cut the timeline short between between my third and fourth cycle, and considered myself recovered after my fourth. Of course, YMMV, but wanted to throw my experience in for what it's worth.


That makes me feel much better, was a little worried I may be pushing myself too hard. I did like 12 weeks on last time, did 7 off, now I’m aiming for 8. But can always stop if I feel too shitty.

[Maxout777]

That makes me feel much better, was a little worried I may be pushing myself too hard. I did like 12 weeks on last time, did 7 off, now I’m aiming for 8. But can always stop if I feel too shitty.

Yeah, always go by feel. Keep in mind, I was running 4 Andro as well in both of those cycles which is much more suppressive (still lighter vs AAS, however) than R Andro/Epi-Andro which you're running solo. I had two compounds "beating me down".

[Turnover25]

Yeah, always go by feel. Keep in mind, I was running 4 Andro as well in both of those cycles which is much more suppressive (still lighter vs AAS, however) than R Andro/Epi-Andro which you're running solo. I had two compounds "beating me down".

Good point. Why run the 4 Andro then?

[Maxout777]

Good point. Why run the 4 Andro then?

Mitigate low estrogen. My second cycle of R Andro beat me down in the end as I struggled with low estrogen in PFS. Saw Palmetto (my poison of choice), inhibits aromatase as well as acting as a progestin/5ARI (such as fin), so a lot of us suffer the opposite of a lot of you guys - low estrogen instead of high. DHT pro-hormones kill estrogen for people like I was.

Funny, because the time I ran ultra hard last year, years after recovery, I had no issues with this.

[Turnover25]

Mitigate low estrogen. My second cycle of R Andro beat me down in the end as I struggled with low estrogen in PFS. Saw Palmetto (my poison of choice), inhibits aromatase as well as acting as a progestin/5ARI (such as fin), so a lot of us suffer the opposite of a lot of you guys - low estrogen instead of high. DHT pro-hormones kill estrogen for people like I was.

Funny, because the time I ran ultra hard last year, years after recovery, I had no issues with this.

Interesting. I did get hormone test that showed sky rocketing estrogen, but then again all of my hormones had skyrocketed. Maybe showing my body wasn’t actually using the hormones and just passing them out. But literally every Estrogen level had skyrocketed where my other hormones were kinda scattered. So I’d imagine that’s a pretty accurate depiction of my E.

Also wanted to ask what you think, how bad is alcohol as a setback? I’ve had a lot of life changes lately and moved to Colorado, been meeting new friends and having fun and drinking more than I should have in the past 2 months. I plan to cut it out fully and go sober now for a long time, mainly just because I don’t want to drink anymore anyways. Not sure how far this could have potentially set me back.

I will say that 2 years ago, my body handled alcohol much worse than it does now.

[Maxout777]

Interesting. I did get hormone test that showed sky rocketing estrogen, but then again all of my hormones had skyrocketed. Maybe showing my body wasn’t actually using the hormones and just passing them out. But literally every Estrogen level had skyrocketed where my other hormones were kinda scattered. So I’d imagine that’s a pretty accurate depiction of my E.

Also wanted to ask what you think, how bad is alcohol as a setback? I’ve had a lot of life changes lately and moved to Colorado, been meeting new friends and having fun and drinking more than I should have in the past 2 months. I plan to cut it out fully and go sober now for a long time, mainly just because I don’t want to drink anymore anyways. Not sure how far this could have potentially set me back.

I will say that 2 years ago, my body handled alcohol much worse than it does now.

I'll shoot you a PM.

[Turnover25]

Day 2 of cycle, libido is very high. Also just in a great mood

[Turnover25]

Currently sick for the 2nd time in 2 months. Before this it’s been like 2 years, not including my fever I got when I crashed

[Turnover25]

Feeling extreme mental clarity today, just really content, happy with life. At work in my office just vibing, looking out the window, enjoying my life. Feel like I did when I was a young, carefree kid.

Haven’t felt this way in far too long, sad that I had to miss out these past couple of years, but once this returns for good I’ll be willing to put it all behind me.

Keep pushing boys

[Turnover25]

Pretty sure I started this cycle a bit premature, starting to experience some intense crash like symptoms reminiscent of the old days. Gonna try to push through the tough part to the end of my cycle, I feel like I’ve been through the absolute worst this thing has to offer and I’m just not afraid of it anymore.

If it becomes crystal clear to me that I shouldn’t push forward I’ll end my cycle a few days early, but if not then I’m just gonna finish. Only like 10 days left.

I’ve learned to appreciate downswings because they remind me of how bad things used to be and how far I’ve come

[Ravmeena]

Turnover have you started feeling herbs when you are not on cycle.I don’t feel them now but when I tried them initially after crash I got raging sensation down there for sometime after following protocol for like 14 days.

[Turnover25]

Turnover have you started feeling herbs when you are not on cycle.I don’t feel them now but when I tried them initially after crash I got raging sensation down there for sometime after following protocol for like 14 days.

It’s hard to say since I’ve been taking them for like a year and 8 months, I don’t know what to compare it to

[Turnover25]

Ended my cycle, feeling like shit. Spent 4 out of the past 6 months on prohormones, gonna take a nice 4-5 month break from them and work to get my test and estrogen up, do another fast, and implement a few more things that I want to try such as no electronics after 9 pm, quitting caffeine, etc.

Keep pushing

[Cdsnuts]

Ended my cycle, feeling like shit. Spent 4 out of the past 6 months on prohormones, gonna take a nice 4-5 month break from them and work to get my test and estrogen up, do another fast, and implement a few more things that I want to try such as no electronics after 9 pm, quitting caffeine, etc.

Keep pushing

Wow. For future reference, when cycling, time on, should always equal time off. I know sometimes it's tempting to stay on, but that defeats the point of the whole protocol. Not to mention the cycles work better when you don't go longer then 8 weeks per clip. 8 weeks back on the herbs, then you can cycle again. I wouldn't wait 4-5 months for your next cycle. I would do it again in say 10 weeks. This time stick to the proper timeline.

You'll get there.....

[Turnover25]

Wow. For future reference, when cycling, time on, should always equal time off. I know sometimes it's tempting to stay on, but that defeats the point of the whole protocol. Not to mention the cycles work better when you don't go longer then 8 weeks per clip. 8 weeks back on the herbs, then you can cycle again. I wouldn't wait 4-5 months for your next cycle. I would do it again in say 10 weeks. This time stick to the proper timeline.

You'll get there.....

Yeah man, tempting is a good way to describe it haha. Pushed it a bit too hard, learned what I can and can’t handle. Starting to feel a bit better now though. Just felt very run down and depressed. Didn’t seem to get much out of my 4th cycle just because I started before I was ready. Huge difference between starting at the right time or not. I’ll shoot for 10 weeks

[Turnover25]

Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

No alcohol
No sugar (besides fruits)
No red meat (brain fog)
No grains
No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
No social media
Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

Things I’m left stuck with-

Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
Libido
Dry skin
Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit

[Cdsnuts]

Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

No alcohol
No sugar (besides fruits)
No red meat (brain fog)
No grains
No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
No social media
Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

Things I’m left stuck with-

Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
Libido
Dry skin
Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit

And you will......the last part is always the longest and hardest because you're close enough to know you can feel normal again but you're just not quite there yet....Just keep doing what you were doing. (Except the alcohol and party favors, because believe me, they're doing you NO favors)

And you get benefit from every cycle whether you feel it or not. Some cycles are more "behind the scenes" and some are in your face. Either way things are happening biologically regardless of the state you're in. That being said, they will run you down if you're not on top of it.

If you're that hell bent on getting rid of the brain fog, you really should be sober for a few months....it makes that much of a difference. If you have to do something, well you're living in the perfect state for it!

You got this.

Out of curiosity, where did you move from?

[Ratchet_V2]

Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

No alcohol
No sugar (besides fruits)
No red meat (brain fog)
No grains
No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
No social media
Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

Things I’m left stuck with-

Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
Libido
Dry skin
Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit


Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

No alcohol
No sugar (besides fruits)
No red meat (brain fog)
No grains
No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
No social media
Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

Things I’m left stuck with-

Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
Libido
Dry skin
Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit

Hey man, I'm glad to hear that you're doing much better. Keeping it short, keeping it rolling:

Booze, probably not a good idea.

Caffeine cleared my fog for maybe an hour, like nicotine, and then it would come back with a vengeance later on in the day. I only drink it occasionally now, and I seem to tolerate it much better as long as it's with food and it's not a double shot. I'd drop it for a while and see how it goes, or dial it back and try eating before you drink it. You know the drill.

No grains, no sugar, no high GI shit, all smart choices. Ripe bananas are high GI, but I wouldn't worry about them. You can temper your body's glucose response by including protein and certain fats with your carbs. I've fucked around with a glucometer before and tried this out. It's also been studied, clinically and n=1, by well reputed researchers like Dom D'agostino. If you're worried about keeping your blood sugar down, go for 10-30 minute post-meal walks. Walking is seriously underrated, I think a 30 minute walk a day should be protocol.

I've met other people who claim that they struggle with red meat, and I don't want to dismiss your own experience with it, but I think it has played a crucial role in my own recovery. I eat more red meat than any other type of meat, at least once, if not twice, a day. It's not just the bioavailable nutrients within, it's the ratios of the nutrients, and the presence of so many different cofactors, that I think is really important to your health. I would really reconsider cutting this out. That being said, I do spend a lot of cash on my meat, as I only go for grass-fed/finished for the reasons that I listed above, as well as the absence of grains and certain fats in conventionally raised meat. I would also include like 4-6 oz of beef/chicken liver every other day if you can stomach it. It took a while to acclimate to it, but now my body craves it. I got my mom on that train too, and she says the same thing. I don't think high cholesterol is bad in certain contexts, but for those who are wondering, mine is still in the normal range. HDL is around 55 and LDL is like 110. Trigs are 50. I always eat fibrous veggies with meat out of habit, and I've read before that certain fibers will actually bind to the cholesterol and hinder absorption in the gut (not that you necessarily want to do that).

I reduced my intake of cruciferous veggies too. I still eat steamed broccoli, cauliflower rice, and sautéd purp cabbage, but I don't throw chard, kale, and spinach in a blender anymore. I can't really say if this has helped, but my bloodwork is better and I'm not nutritionally deficient in anything.

The only thing that I would add, cause I know you like your gluten-free processed shit, is to avoid that. It's marginally better at best. Most of them contain seed oils too, and at the risk of coming across like another dude who stumbled across CarnivoreMD, I do think that processed seed oils are detrimental to human physiology and should be eliminated from the food chain.

Send me a pm if you want me to walk you through my eating habits. I feel like I have them dialed, and I know it's really helped me overcome this.

All the best, we'll have to grab a drink at union station once this is behind us.

[MungYarlon]

Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

No alcohol
No sugar (besides fruits)
No red meat (brain fog)
No grains
No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
No social media
Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

Things I’m left stuck with-

Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
Libido
Dry skin
Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit

When you're on the prohormones do those symptoms go away?

[Turnover25]

And you will......the last part is always the longest and hardest because you're close enough to know you can feel normal again but you're just not quite there yet....Just keep doing what you were doing. (Except the alcohol and party favors, because believe me, they're doing you NO favors)

And you get benefit from every cycle whether you feel it or not. Some cycles are more "behind the scenes" and some are in your face. Either way things are happening biologically regardless of the state you're in. That being said, they will run you down if you're not on top of it.

If you're that hell bent on getting rid of the brain fog, you really should be sober for a few months....it makes that much of a difference. If you have to do something, well you're living in the perfect state for it!

You got this.

Out of curiosity, where did you move from?

Thanks for the support as always. I got ahead of myself the past 4 months or so, the move was a big one. I started meeting all New people, doing all new things, and the prohormones had me feeling great all the time so I started drinking and letting loose, I think it might have been needed because I had a lot of fun, but now I had my fun and I’m really starting to buckle down.

I agree with the cycles, even though I felt run down and that I didn’t get anything out of it, I’m now dreaming consistently again, every single night, after this last cycle. I thought anhedonia was lifting but I haven’t had any sparks of emotions in a few weeks, that one is so tricky.

Also, I came from West Michigan. I grew up about 30 min from Lake Michigan. If you’ve never been, I recommend. The beaches are amazing and it’s a nice quiet place.

- - - Updated - - -


When you're on the prohormones do those symptoms go away?

Sometimes, it’s give or take. My brain fog has seen alot of improvements, and there’s been times on cycle where I can think very clearly, but the entire state of it has never lifted entirely yet. It’s hard to explain. It’s not just that my memory is bad, it’s a slew of multiple neurological symptoms dealing with memory, motor function, vision, decision making, senses. Hard to explain.

Anhedonia improves while on cycles, emotions flicker and spark. Haven’t stuck yet though.

Libido definitely improves. Dry skin I haven’t noticed improvement in a while

[Turnover25]

Don’t want to jinx anything, but as of the past week or so my anhedonia feels like it’s lifting. Feeling more emotions and more normal, might finally be experiencing the SnapBack from my previous 2 cycles. I’ll update if I notice anything else.

Keep pushing boys!

[Turnover25]

Cdsnuts do you think doing a 2 day water fast will have benefits? Been wanting to do a little reboot while I have a couple days off

[Cdsnuts]

Cdsnuts do you think doing a 2 day water fast will have benefits? Been wanting to do a little reboot while I have a couple days off

It depends how clean you are. This is what I mean. When you start a water fast, it typically takes the body three days to get into the deep cleaning state. If you start a fast and stop after two days, you could stop the fast right as waste is emptying into your blood stream to be processed out. So again, it depends how clean you are. I'd say that a two day juice feast would be the better option because of the length of time

You would get more benefit from the juice feast.

[Turnover25]

Day 6 of UltraHard stacked with Alpha Four, I feel literally no effect

[Brooks]

Day 6 of UltraHard stacked with Alpha Four, I feel literally no effect

Dude this is so strange. I stopped a UH cycle 2 weeks in last month after not feeling it for the first time. Is there a chance UH has weakened the dose?

- - - Updated - - -

It’s super weird that we have both responded really well to it in the past and suddenly felt no effect. How can that be?

[Turnover25]

Dude this is so strange. I stopped a UH cycle 2 weeks in last month after not feeling it for the first time. Is there a chance UH has weakened the dose?

- - - Updated - - -

It’s super weird that we have both responded really well to it in the past and suddenly felt no effect. How can that be?

Not sure man, anyone have any ideas?

If anything I feel like it’s making me worse, I think I’m going to drop the Four.

[Brooks]

Can we loop in Rob or something to confirm UH potency has stayed the same compared to earlier in the year? I just find it so odd you and I didn’t feel anything. Is your UH bottle new? I thought it was just me until I saw you say the same thing

[Turnover25]

Can we loop in Rob or something to confirm UH potency has stayed the same compared to earlier in the year? I just find it so odd you and I didn’t feel anything. Is your UH bottle new? I thought it was just me until I saw you say the same thing

Let me get back to you once I’ve been on the Alpha Four for a few days, I feel like that’s the problem. I didn’t use it today and I feel a little better, might be placebo of course.

[Brooks]

Let me get back to you once I’ve been on the Alpha Four for a few days, I feel like that’s the problem. I didn’t use it today and I feel a little better, might be placebo of course.

Definitely let me know how that goes. Hoping it was just a fluke for us. It would be weird if UH suddenly lost its potency, I guess? I have a cycle starting next week.

[Cdsnuts]

Definitely let me know how that goes. Hoping it was just a fluke for us. It would be weird if UH suddenly lost its potency, I guess? I have a cycle starting next week.

What's the deal with this???

[Turnover25]

Been taking Allopreg from iconic for almost a week, I feel incredible, slightly euphoric. Gave me anxiety at first.

Edit: Sorry I meant IdeaLabs