My road to recovery

[LetsRecover]

Hello everybody!

I am new here and like many of you I am trying to recover from PFS. I am suffering now for a year and it is time to get better! I started this thread to give updates on how I am doing/feeling with the CDnuts protocol and I hope you guys can help me out!

I have a question about juice feasting. Is it also ok to only eat fresh organic fruits and veggies for 2 weeks? I have troubles eating celery and greens, I can't stand it anymore. After 2 days I had to throw up from the greens juice drinks despite adding a lot of apples and pears.
So for example is it ok to only eat fresh, organic tomatoes, oranges, apples, plums, grapes and pears (not necessarily as juice) for two weeks?

Thank you for this forum! It gives me so much hope! :)

[LetsRecover]

I really would appreciate some advice and support!

I am planning on posting here regularly because I have a lot of questions still and I want to follow the protocol as closely as possible.

[Yus]

Apparently juicing allows you to absorb the nutrients better, also eliminating the fibers.

I don't know about you, but my digestive system was very vulnerable when i crashed, liquids was all i could handle.

[LetsRecover]

Thanks for your reply Yus!

I dont have a problem taking non-liquids. In fact, I dont have troubles eating anything, so my digestive system is working fine.

At the moment I mainly eat plums, apples, oranges, tomatoes and grapes, all organic. I hope I will pass the juice feasting period despite not juicing and not eating celery or spinach. It is really no fun and I cant wait till its over.

Regarding paleo diet, what do you order in restaurants? How do you know if they serve you organic food and food without flavor enhancer or other toxic stuff?

[Yus]

Thanks for your reply Yus!

I dont have a problem taking non-liquids. In fact, I dont have troubles eating anything, so my digestive system is working fine.

At the moment I mainly eat plums, apples, oranges, tomatoes and grapes, all organic. I hope I will pass the juice feasting period despite not juicing and not eating celery or spinach. It is really no fun and I cant wait till its over.

Regarding paleo diet, what do you order in restaurants? How do you know if they serve you organic food and food without flavor enhancer or other toxic stuff?

I'm no expert in the department, i think you'd have to wait for CDnuts, but i don't see an issue as long as it's raw so you won't be droppin' out on the nutrients & antioxidants if you're boiling yada yada. From what i understand you'd be getting a more nutritious density from eating it raw.. Personally i'm not eating out at restaurants, i'm quite scared that i'll have a bad reaction, usually taking my own food when going out to a friend and so forth, but i'd suggest giving a call prior to the restaurant and possibly asking in order to avoid any mishap maybe? :D

[LetsRecover]

Ok, I will wait for CD. Yes, I eat everything raw, fresh and organic.

I dont really trust restaurants in that regard. I could imagine they care about glutenfree but not about flavor enhancer or other chemical stuff they use.
However, stuff like sushi and glutenfree pizza should be fine on carbbackloading days in the evening, right?

I was doing HIIT today. It was way too hard, no chance sprinting for 30 seconds. After 3 sprints I was dead. How do you guys do it?

[LetsRecover]

Hi guys

Not feeling too well. Just frustrated not to see much improvement so far. I hope this changes soon.

I am now doing the protocol with the whole diat und exercise. The herbs I have not started yet. I will buy them next week.

I have a question.
After one herb cycle of 2 weeks (14 herbs) should I take a break or continue immediately with the next cycle?

Best regards

[Yus]

From what i understood CD said, you should cycle them 6-8 weeks followed by cycling Andro daily, then resume the herbs. Hope you get better soon!

[Cdsnuts]

The point of the juice feast is to cleanse. As discussed on the website, by taking in only liquids you free up your digestive energy to be used for this purpose. It's not something that most people are going to be used to. It's going to be difficult. Eating raw foods is not the same as doing a juice feast.

You're frustrated because you haven't seen improvements in a few days? Seriously? You're in for a rude awakening then my friend. It maybe months before you notice any improvement.

In regards to cycling the herbs, there is no break....you do your cycle, whether it's 7 days, 14 days, whatever, then go right back to the beginning and start over.

For best results you need to follow the protocol exactly as it is outlined.

[LetsRecover]

Thank you for the Reply Cd!


So I messed up.

I want to do it right this time. Could you answer me a couple of questions?



Is it ok to buy the fruits and veggies for Juice feasting from the Supermarket? Is this fresh enough?

Can I skip or reduce the greens and drink more of a apple/banana/grapes Juice? I have problems not throwing up with spinach/kale/lettuce and celery.

I assume a quart is a liter (defintions differ). Are 4 quarts of juice a must or can I drink 2 liters of water and 2 liters of juice?

Is it ok to drink the juice out of a thermos bottle/ flask?

Lastly, I live in flat with another guy and he eats a lot of junk food, gluten and he doesnt clean often. Everything is a bit dirty and our kitchen is sometimes a mess. If I clean up is this still a problem? Can it slow down my healing process?



Sorry for annoying you. I just desperately want to get better as soon as possible.

Thank you!

[Cdsnuts]

Thank you for the Reply Cd!


So I messed up.

I want to do it right this time. Could you answer me a couple of questions?



Is it ok to buy the fruits and veggies for Juice feasting from the Supermarket? Is this fresh enough?

Can I skip or reduce the greens and drink more of a apple/banana/grapes Juice? I have problems not throwing up with spinach/kale/lettuce and celery.

I assume a quart is a liter (defintions differ). Are 4 quarts of juice a must or can I drink 2 liters of water and 2 liters of juice?

Is it ok to drink the juice out of a thermos bottle/ flask?

Lastly, I live in flat with another guy and he eats a lot of junk food, gluten and he doesnt clean often. Everything is a bit dirty and our kitchen is sometimes a mess. If I clean up is this still a problem? Can it slow down my healing process?



Sorry for annoying you. I just desperately want to get better as soon as possible.

Thank you!

Grocery store is fine. You want organic if possible. Not a deal breaker if they're not though.

Minimum of four quarts/liters of juice. It's a feast, not a fast. Four quarts PLUS water during the day. You want to supply your body with enough calories to live on plus you want to flush the system out.

Don't make the green juice all in one. Spread the recommended amount of greens through out all of your juices. The fruit masks the greens very well. You should enjoy them for the most part, not feel like it's something you have to suffer through.

I'm not sure how your dirty roomate will effect your healing? What do you mean?

[LetsRecover]

I am very sure I will suffer from it because there are so much greens and I can still taste them when spreading with other fruits. But I will do it.

People who suffer from celiac desease do not share their kitchen because its likely they will get in touch with gluten. There is also a lot of dust and it is dirty in our flat. I thought that maybe the little gluten and the bacterias could attack my system and slow down my healing process.

I will drink the juice out of flask/thermos bottles because I need to go to work during the day. Hope thats ok? I dont want people to see what I drink for two weeks.

[LetsRecover]

I restarted the Juice Feasting and I am on my last day now. After today I completed 15 days of Juice Feasting. It was hard but if I get well it is 100% worth it!

Tomorrow I will start the paleo diet and the exercise sessions.

I have a few questions again.

Should I also start the daily supplements tomorrow (Vitamin D, Magnesium, Chlorella, Spirulina) or wait?

I used to exercise already in the past, but not very regularly. Means, I went to the gym, then took 2 months break, then went to the gym for 3 months, took break again and so on. Can I start with lifting weights right away? Haven't been to the gym now for 3 weeks. I could start a little bit slower to make sure I wont get injured at the beginning.

I will start the herbs after 1 months of lifting weights (12 reps). Is this good? Or should I wait until I lift heavy (only 8 reps)? When would that be? .
On TMO it says you should again wait until you lift heavy (8 reps) to do Carb Backloading. Is this a must or can I already start Carb Backloading? This would allow me to at least go out with friends and eat sushi and gluten free pasta every now and then (twice per week or so). Hopefully you guys or CD can answer me this. :)

Still feeling the same, but nothing else to expect. Hopefully, soon I will have little improvements! I will update on that of course.

Thanks for helping guys.

[LetsRecover]

Well, thanks for the many replies.

Of course I still feel like shit and I have to admit, I have doubts that I will ever recover. Many guys started a recovery thread few years ago and never posted again or still try out new supplements and ask questions. Shouldn't they know what to do and be close to recovered? Also some recoveries take 5 years. 5 years dealing with PFS are 5 wasted years in my book. And this in my 20s when all your freinds are partying and feeling great!

I try to be optimistic but it is just very hard when you can't be 100% sure.

PFS remains a mistery to me. I does not make sense to me that our body needs so much help (paleo diet, meditation, exercise, herbs, …) for so long to recover from such a small pill.

I am on the protocoll for 4 weeks now (15 days juice feasting). I do carb backloading every now and then when I meet friends for dinner after workout (of course). I will start with the herbs in 2 weeks. I follow the rest of the protocol closely, I believe, except I need to do daily meditation & breathing sessions.


How can I change the name of this thread btw? I realized too late that this name already existed.

[Bankai9000]

You did 15 days of juice feasting without any solid foods(apples, bananas etc.)?
How often do you hit the gym now.

[LetsRecover]

After I did the juice feast incorrectly (I ate fruits) I restarted everything and did it as outlined on TMO. Means I only drank juice for 15 days. I mixed bananas and apples and pears into the greens juice to make it drinkable.
I hit the gym 4 times a week (A: Chest, B: Back, C: Legs, D: Shoulders as on TMO) and do HIIT twice a week. Sometimes I play icehockey instead of HIIT. Hope thats ok, it is my hobby...

[Cdsnuts]

After I did the juice feast incorrectly (I ate fruits) I restarted everything and did it as outlined on TMO. Means I only drank juice for 15 days. I mixed bananas and apples and pears into the greens juice to make it drinkable.
I hit the gym 4 times a week (A: Chest, B: Back, C: Legs, D: Shoulders as on TMO) and do HIIT twice a week. Sometimes I play icehockey instead of HIIT. Hope thats ok, it is my hobby...

How's it going?

[LetsRecover]

Thanks for asking CD! :)

Unfortunately, not much change. Had the feeling that sleep and penis sensation have been slightly better in the last couple of days. Hopefully, it is not just wishful thinking.

I meditate every morning now. The only thing which is missing are the herbs. I plan on taking them in about two weeks when I will start lifting heavy (by then I lifted with 12 reps for 6 weeks). Is that a good plan?

[LetsRecover]

Oh and my digestion is bad. Should that have resolved from the juice cleanse?

[Bankai9000]

ah damn mate sorry for not answering after asking god

For digestion you could maybe fast for 24-72h and then start with selfmade bone broth and some veggies and following week lower on sugars. Let the stomach/colon clean a bit while introducing a healthier gutbiome. Adding carefully digestive enzymes seemed to help people aswell. Keeping some form of IF (let's say 12-14h even) can help fight possible SiBo and give the body more room. Then following protocol with 0 gluten and paelo

[LetsRecover]

digestion stabilized again. however, still no other improvements made. I wish I would see some results, I am feeling suicidal again. probably because nothing positive is happening.
this tmo protocol really takes me a lot of energy and time, but I have to keep going.

Started lifting heavy this week. Next week I will start cycling 7 herbs (will increase to 14 as soon as possible).

[basementdweller]

digestion stabilized again. however, still no other improvements made. I need results, I am feeling suicidal again. probably because nothing positive is happening.
this tmo protocol really takes me a lot of energy and time, but I have to keep going.

I'm not big on over analyzing symptoms, but in my own experience, everything improved after digestion. That was the first bad symptom before my initial crash as well as the one i'm currently dealing with

[LetsRecover]

Hey man, thanks for replying.
Digestion was just aweful for the last two weeks. It now went back to "better, but still bad" as it used to be.
How are you doing now after your second crash?

[LetsRecover]

Hi guys

Happy new year to you all! Hopefully it will be a year with lots of improvements for all of us.

Happy to tell you that I am in a nice upswing at the moment. Sleep is better than ever and also penis sensitivity is stronger. Still long way to go for the recovery, but maybe that is the light at the end of the tunnel I was looking for. I hope that my baseline has improved by now and that the next downswing won't undo everything.

Gym and cold showers are no problem anymore. HIIT sucks and I am very bad at meditating (can't think of nothing, my mind is everywhere).

Haven't even started the herbs yet, because many have still not arrived yet (ordered also from abroad, but it really takes long).

[LetsRecover]

Feeling really bad, all tiny improvements are gone. I don't think my baseline has improved either which worries me the most.

Out of frustration I started masturbating again and skipped meditation. It happens a lot that I lose motivation for life during downswings (if it is one).

What happened to the members from 2017,2018 who started a recovery thread?

[Hulk Smash]

Here since about 2016. My slow recovery has been my fault. I wasnt 100% all in. Many times I would slack on diet, lifting, sleep etc.

Today I'm about 60-70% there and those improvements came VERY quickly when I stopped falling off for every doubt or setback.

Stay on course or you will drag this out longer than need be.

[Yus]

Here since about 2016. My slow recovery has been my fault. I wasnt 100% all in. Many times I would slack on diet, lifting, sleep etc.

Today I'm about 60-70% there and those improvements came VERY quickly when I stopped falling off for every doubt or setback.

Stay on course or you will drag this out longer than need be.

Hulk smash, could you give me some insight on how you've improved your skin?

I have very prominent lines below my biceps and elsewhere that i've developed. I have a few lines on my face that have become more prominent aswell, but trying to keep myself out of the dry-area at all times.

[Maxout777]

I’m here since 2016 - what would you like to ask?

[Hulk Smash]

Hulk smash, could you give me some insight on how you've improved your skin?

I have very prominent lines below my biceps and elsewhere that i've developed. I have a few lines on my face that have become more prominent aswell, but trying to keep myself out of the dry-area at all times.

I haven't improved my skin much but it isn't getting worse either. I use Shea Butter a few days per week on affected areas. I believe there's a good chance to fix the skin but that's after a good amount of recovery is achieved. Also, the skin is fixed when bone metabolism is fixed, atleast in my case. Read my log for details.

I'm guessing you are thin. You don't have much weight gain or muscle gain?

[Yus]

Yeah, very thin. Extremely low body fat, 68kg currently and 185cm - Skin issues are a bit worrying because i develop a lot of pimples, weird moles that appears, gum boils. (Although some of these aren't very alarming) the frequency makes me wonder what's going on. I'm able to put on muscle, but weight gain is pretty challenging, and has been even before fin

[Hulk Smash]

Yeah, very thin. Extremely low body fat, 68kg currently and 185cm - Skin issues are a bit worrying because i develop a lot of pimples, weird moles that appears, gum boils. (Although some of these aren't very alarming) the frequency makes me wonder what's going on. I'm able to put on muscle, but weight gain is pretty challenging, and has been even before fin

I figured you were probably very thin by your skin description. Because of the correlation, your skin lines are likely tied to your bone health. Did you have pimples, moles and gum boils prior to fin? Also, where are the moles and pimples located?

Do you have a log? Please create one so we don't spam this log.

Also, I think it may be beneficial for you to do Gua Sha. There are some good tutorials on YouTube.

[Cdsnuts]

Here since about 2016. My slow recovery has been my fault. I wasnt 100% all in. Many times I would slack on diet, lifting, sleep etc.

Today I'm about 60-70% there and those improvements came VERY quickly when I stopped falling off for every doubt or setback.

Stay on course or you will drag this out longer than need be.

This post is what ALL the new guys should see. You should talk to the new guy JoeP26 ....I just responded to his post something along these lines.

[LetsRecover]

Update:

4 months into the protocol, no improvements.

[Alchemy]

Update:

4 months into the protocol, no improvements.

I find that hard to believe if I'm being honest

No improvements whatsoever in any departments?

You're telling me that you've gone in 100% after water fasting, eating super healthy, working out consistently, meditating and taking vitamins and nootropics,that you don't feel healthier, with more energy, better body composition, stronger,calmer and more mentally balanced?

The only way you could have absolutely no improvements whatesover is if you've half arsed it while doing your best to convince yourself daily that it's all a waste of time and won't work. Because even if you did half arse it while having faith in what you're doing, you would still see a big difference.

[Cdsnuts]

Update:

4 months into the protocol, no improvements.

Then you are clearly either not doing the protocol are you're doing something wrong. It's that simple.

It is biologically impossible to not have any improvement if you're doing everything 100% as outlined.....impossible. It goes against the laws of nature.

[Cdsnuts]

I find that hard to believe if I'm being honest

No improvements whatsoever in any departments?

You're telling me that you've gone in 100% after water fasting, eating super healthy, working out consistently, meditating and taking vitamins and nootropics,that you don't feel healthier, with more energy, better body composition, stronger,calmer and more mentally balanced?

The only way you could have absolutely no improvements whatesover is if you've half arsed it while doing your best to convince yourself daily that it's all a waste of time and won't work. Because even if you did half arse it while having faith in what you're doing, you would still see a big difference.

This^^^^^^^^^

[LetsRecover]

My symptoms are sexual (ED, no libido, no sensation) and insomnia. Sometimes my balls hurt. I have no or very little mental symptoms. Of course I am very depressed, but I think that's more because I lost my sexual life (used to love that), my job (can't work if I fall asleep), my social life (no alcohol, no fast food, no gluten) and life feels already over in my 20s.

I can tell you what I have done the past 4 months and then maybe you can figure out what is the problem.

Before I started I got tooth paste, shampoo, soap, laundry detergent, deodorant, hand cream from a shop in my city which sells itself as "all natural". I checked the ingrediants and there are no of the listed toxicants listed on TMO contained inside. Also they have no artificial flavours which I thought was a good sign.

First 15 days juice feast. Only liquid juice out of fruits and greens (mainly spinach). This was brutal because after every drink I thought I had to puke (I asked for help there if you remember). But I did it and never puked when drinking slowly.

Then I jumped immediately on the paleo diet (didn't know from TMO that you have to start slowly). I ate a lot of peppers, aubergines, zucchinis, meat, fish (salmon), tomatoes, dry figs, walnuts, lettuce, eggs, beans (appearently this is bad, so I stopped now with beans). I cooked everything with butter or olive oil. Every once a while a drank some milk. All organic.

After the juice feast I immediately started lifting weights (I did that in the past already, I asked you if it is ok) 4 times a week (doing the letters A,B,C,D on TMO). Since then I did not skip one training. After 4 weeks I started lifting heavy and I started backloading. I started eating glutenfree pizza, pasta, sushi (took it with glutenfree soy sauce. Had no idea that soy was bad! Stopped soy by now), thai food and I went to restaurants again.

I haven't had a sip of alcohol since starting the juice feast/protocol. Nor did I take any pharma when I was feeling sick.

After lifting weights I take a glutenfree (they sell it as all natural) proteil shake (half a hour after, should prolong it to one hour after now).

At least once a week I do HIIT sprints (at beginning 3 sprints, could not more. Now 5 sprints, then my knee starts to hurt. I had a surgery there). As soon I feel pain I stop which is most of the time after 5 sprints. I count an ice hockey match or practice as one HIIT training. This is why I sometimes only do HIIT once per week.

After every workout (and everyday when I have a rest day) I take a cold shower. First warm, when I wash my hair with shampoo (because of the headache I get when my head gets cold water for too long. I think it is the same effect with eating very cold ice cream too fast.). Then all the way to cold. Also my head will be under the cold water, just for shorter periods.

Every second day, I brush my skin with a brush under the cold shower.

The first 3 months I only had sex with my gf, never masturbated, never porn. The last month I got a bit more careless in heavy downswings.

After 1.5 months I started taking the daily supplements (vitD, Magnesium, one day spirulina, the other day chlorella). After 2.5 months (or so, don't remember the exact time) I got 13 herbs to cycle. Every day I take exactly one herb (some people take pine pollen daily which to me contradicts the principle of cycling stated on TMO).

When its shiny outside I get some sunlight. I never got sunlight on my balls because I life in the city and people would definitely see that (how do you guys do that?).

The only thing I was a bit careless about was meditation and breathing. I am sure you will say that's the problem. I do it every once in a while but definitely not daily. I downloaded holosync and started doing half a hour of listening to it. I just can not focus and its uncomfortable and boring. I do it twice or once a week when I feel stressed out. Maybe can I reduce it to 15 minutes per day? Or is 30 minutes necessary?

So I would say I follow the protocol (yes, meditation I can improve on) very closely. The amount of time and energy it takes me are huge and the benefits (so far only a bit of muscles maybe) are slim/nonexistant. Maybe you like working out and being healthy, but I don't! I want to be lazy again, read, study, make music, eat shitty food like mcdonalds, eat baguettes, get drunk with friends. I like sports like tennis and ice hockey, but I do not enjoy working out. I can live with not being alpha.

I do this all just to recover and as I said, I am willing to do anything to get there. Would be nice to get more guidance since so far I don't feel like I got much help out of this forum and of you experienced guys. And my trust is weak in everybody after asking 3 doctors about finasteride and they all tell me it is very good. Additionally, as you know everybody (even on hackstasis) debate your protocol. All I am trying to say is that it is just hard to know what is the truth in this situation.

Have a good day! If this post was offensive to anybody of you, I am sorry, it was not my intention.

[JoeP26]

My symptoms are sexual (ED, no libido, no sensation) and insomnia. Sometimes my balls hurt. I have no or very little mental symptoms. Of course I am very depressed, but I think that's more because I lost my sexual life (used to love that), my job (can't work if I fall asleep), my social life (no alcohol, no fast food, no gluten) and life feels already in my 20s.

I can tell you what I have done the past 4 months and then maybe you can figure out what is the problem.

Before I started I got tooth paste, shampoo, soap, laundry detergent, deodorant, hand cream from a shop in my city which sells itself as "all natural". I checked the ingrediants and there are no of the listed toxicants listed on TMO contained inside. Also they have no artificial flavours which I thought was a good sign.

First 15 days juice feast. Only liquid juice out of fruits and greens (mainly spinach). This was brutal because after every drink I thought I had to puke (I asked for help there if you remember). But I did it and never puked when drinking slowly.

Then I jumped immediately on the paleo diet (didn't know from TMO that you have to start slowly). I ate a lot of peppers, aubergines, zucchinis, meat, fish (salmon), tomatoes, dried figs, walnuts, lettuce, eggs, beans (appearently this is bad, so I stopped now with beans). I cooked everything with butter or olive oil. Every once a while a drank some milk. All organic.

After the juice feast I immediately started lifting weights (I did that in the past already, I asked you if it is ok) 4 times a week (doing the letters A,B,C,D on TMO). Since then I did not skip one training. After 4 weeks I started lifting heavy and I started backloading. I started eating glutenfree pizza, pasta, sushi (took it with glutenfree soy sauce. Had no idea that soy was bad! Stopped soy by now), thai food and I went to restaurants again.

I haven't had a sip of alcohol since starting the juice feast/protocol. Nor did I take any pharma when I was feeling sick.

After lifting weights I take a glutenfree (they sell it as all natural) proteil shake (half a hour after, should prolong it to one hour after now).

At least once a week I do HIIT sprints (at beginning 3 sprints, could not more. Now 5 sprints, then my knee starts to hurt. I had a surgery there). As soon I feel pain I stop which is most of the time after 5 sprints. I count an ice hockey match or pracitce as one HIIT training this is why I sometimes only do HIIT once per week.

After every workout (and everyday when I have a rest day) I take a cold shower. First warm, when I wash my hair with shampoo (because of the headache I get when my head gets cold water for too long. I think it is the same effect with eating very cold ice cream too fast.). Then all the way to cold, also my head will be under the cold water, just for shorter periods.

Every second day, I brush my skin with a brush under the cold shower.

The first 3 months I only had sex with my gf, never masturbated, never porn. The last month I got a bit more careless in heavy downswings.

After 1.5 months I started taking the daily Supplements (vitD, Magnesium, one day spirulina, the other day chlorella). After 2.5 months (or so don't remember the exact time) I got 13 herbs to cycle. Every day I take exactly one herb (some people take pine pollen daily which to me contradicts the principle of cycling stated on TMO).

When its shiny outside I get some sunlight. I never got sunlight on my balls because I life in the city and people would definitely see that (how do you do that?).

The only thing I was a bit careless about was meditation and breathing. I am sure you will say that's the problem. I do it every once in a while but definitely not daily. I downloaded holosync and started doing half a hour of listening to it. I just can not focus and its uncomfortable and boring. I do it twice or once a week when I feel stressed out. Maybe can I reduce it to 15 minutes per day? Or is 30 minutes necessary?

So I would say I follow the protocol (yes meditation I can improve on) very closely. The amount of time and energy it takes me are huge and the benefits (so far only a bit of muscle maybe) are slim/nonexistant. Maybe you like working out and being healthy, but I don't! I want to be lazy again, read, study, make music, eat shitty food like mcdonalds, eat baguettes, get drunk with friends. I like sports like tennis and ice hockey, but I do not enjoy working out. I can live with not being alpha.

I do this all just to recover and as I said, I am willing to do anything to get there. Would be nice to get more guidance since so far I don't feel like I got much help out of this forum and of you experiences guys. And my trust is weak in everybody after asking 3 doctors about finasteride and they all tell me it is very good. And as you know everybody (even on hackstasis) debate your protocol. All I am trying to say is that it is just hard to know what is the truth in this situation.

Have a good day! If this post was offensive to anybody of you, I am sorry, it was not my intention.

Have you done the prohormones yet?

[Carni]

If your problems are mainly sexual it can take quite some time to be better. Even some of the recovered took a year or 2 too get decent libido.

[alphacfi]

I am 14 months into the protocol and I can definitely guarantee you that it is doing work. I remember last January feeling like I was not even going to make it to the summer. My mental symptoms were so terrible I didn't think I could live another day if it continued. There was little improvements for me in the first 4 months. Even 6 months in I would have downswings that would rival the downswings I was experiencing in the beginning. It's hard for me to even remember now how terrible I was feeling back then. It's a dark place I don't allow my mind to meditate on quite yet. Luckily I kept a journal for the first 6 months and I'm looking forward to reading that maybe a year or two after I am totally healed. You have to keep with it. Keep grinding away. I remember I used to love working out but when I crashed all I wanted to do was lay on the couch and watch tv eating cheetos. Working out become a chore and it wasnt fun for me anymore. But I pushed through that and hit the gym almost every day and still do. The guys that recover had there doubts along the way as you read there stories but the one thing they all have in common is they continued to follow it and improvements came. Albeit slowwwly. I don't know why you even worry about the people saying the protocol doesnt work and that TMO is bull shit. I mean do you not believe any of the fellas in the recovery section? I kinda doubt they are all lying about being recovered. That doesn't make much sense to me.
I am doing 90% better. Most days I am 90-100. And by the report you laid out, if you continue to do what you're doing, you will be there too. Doesn't look much different from what I am doing.

[LetsRecover]

Thanks for your answers and encouraging words. Happy to hear, that you are doing so well, alphacfi .

Hopefully, you are right about the sexual sides! But 2 years on the protocol without libido is a long time.

I am only 4 months into the protocol, but I suffer from PFS now for more than 1.5 years.

And no, I have not done the prohormones yet. From my understanding, CD said prohormones are not necessary for recovery. However, they speed things up. I want to keep things on a purely natural level, that is why I will try to recover without prohormones. If I will still not improve in the next months, I might reconsider it.

[LetsRecover]

Cdsnuts. You said that I am doing something wrong. Could you please check out my post and help me or give advice? Otherwise, I can not make improvements and I don't know what to change.

Thanks!

[Cdsnuts]

Cdsnuts. You said that I am doing something wrong. Could you please check out my post and help me or give advice? Otherwise, I can not make improvements and I don't know what to change.

Thanks!

I don't have the time right now to comb through your post. YOU know what you need to do based on what is laid out for you on TMO. If you're doing all that is listed there, you will have success over time, that's all there is to it.

[LetsRecover]

I don't have the time right now to comb through your post. YOU know what you need to do based on what is laid out for you on TMO. If you're doing all that is listed there, you will have success over time, that's all there is to it.

I read the protocol several times. I outlined what I do in an earlier post. In my opinion I follow the protocol precisely (I meditate every day now).

I will update in a few weeks again.

[LetsRecover]

I quit following the protocol in March this year because I did not make any improvements after 4 months in.

I thought maybe (and some guy in this forum thinks similarly) the reason the protocol is not working for me is the fact that I only did a juice feast for 15 days instead of a water fast. Hence, this time I will do a water fast and see how I feel after 6 months.

Aiming for 10 days, will start in late October.

[Cdsnuts]

I quit following the protocol in March this year because I did not make any improvements after 4 months in.

I thought maybe (and some guy in this forum thinks similarly) the reason the protocol is not working for me is the fact that I only did a juice feast for 15 days instead of a water fast. Hence, this time I will do a water fast and see how I feel after 6 months.

Aiming for 10 days, will start in late October.

I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but if you did EVERYTHING outlined 100% for four months and didn't get ANY change at all, most likely you're NOT doing everything. Not trying to be a dick, but that's just the reality of it.

Yes, a water fast is definitely more powerful than a juice feast especially if your really fucked.

Are you doing the fast supervised?

[LetsRecover]

I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but if you did EVERYTHING outlined 100% for four months and didn't get ANY change at all, most likely you're NOT doing everything. Not trying to be a dick, but that's just the reality of it.

Yes, a water fast is definitely more powerful than a juice feast especially if your really fucked.

Are you doing the fast supervised?

Besides meditating and doing the breathing exercises daily I would say I followed the protocol 100 %. I already posted what I did during these 4 months to clear up possible missunderstandings from my part about the TMO website (because my english is not perfect).

I will read the TMO website again (4th time).

I am still looking for facilities or doctors to do a supervised water fast here in Switzerland. So far I did not find anything (all fasts offered are not water only). I will keep searching. However, if I do not find anything I will start the water fast by myself at home in the end of October.

Do you guys have suggestions for water fast supervisions in Europe (preferably close to Switzerland)?

[Mojo]

Arguably for me, breath work and meditating has been a cornerstone for recovery. When I first started, even closing my eyes was enough to give me anxiety and fear. But I kept doing it and gets easier with time. It just takes a good 20 minutes out of your day. Have a certain time during your day where you sit down and just do it. After a while it becomes part of your routine and less of a nuisance. It can not be understated what calming your mind can do for the rest of your body and mindset in general.

Keep going buddy, you got this.

[Rafenk]

Yeah, breath work and meditation/mindfulness are essential. I think a lot of people really underestimate the physiological impact of them.

[Cdsnuts]

They are BOTH very much under estimated.

The funny thing is that for some people what may make or break their recovery is completely different than for others. It all comes down to genetics, and what their underlying symptoms are. This is why it's essential that the WHOLE thing be implemented all the time. You don't know what that one thing may be for you. That being said regardless of what that thing is, the sum of all these things is greater then their parts. Each individual piece is magnified by all of the others.

[LetsRecover]

First day of my (hopefully) 10 days water fast. Wish me luck!

[Aly]

how is the water fast going?

[LetsRecover]

I am a little bit panicking because I brushed my teeth yesterday and that this broke my fast. Thinking about going 11 days instead of 10 days because of this.
Other than that I am doing well.

[Aly]

I don’t think brushing your teeth breaks the fast. Keep going and keep us updated please! I am planning to do a 12 day water fast myself at the end of December so looking forward to hearing about your experience

[LetsRecover]

Day 6 of my water fast.

PFS hits hard during my water fast. Much more depression, insomnia, lack of sexdrive, also balls ache again. Besides that I feel (physically) surprisingly well! Not feeling weak, little to none headache and dizzyness.

Since yesterday I am in medical supervision.

[LetsRecover]

Will finish my water fast in two hours. By then I fasted 11.5 day (after two days I brushed my teeth once). Think it is a good time to stop because I am no longer in medical supervision today and yesterday I got very dizzy for a moment.

Overall the mental aspect was hardest for me because I had a huge PFS down which normalized by now and eating is my hobby :). Physically it was not bad, I felt relatively good the entire time. I walked outside every day, so wasn't lying in bed all day.

I will break the fast with bone broth and fruit juices to get some sugar and salt. Tomorrow veggies and fruits, then I will jump into strict paleo.

[blackkey96]

LetsRecover I saw your thread and i admire your perseverance. I know it can be hard at this age, i am 24 so i can relate. But when you recover, this will make you much stronger and healthier than your friends/peers. Just stay positive, i know its hard but thats half the battle and whats common amongst the recovered here

[LetsRecover]

Thank you for your words, I really appreciate them.
Yes, this journey is not easy. Let us just hope for the best and as you said let's keep going!

[LetsRecover]

Happy new year to everybody!

Almost 2 months have passed since my waterfast. I had terrible diarrhea for 3 days after breaking the fast. I broke the fast with bone broth and juice. Since then I eat paleo only.

My digestion was perfect for the first months. Unfortunately, it is getting worse again. I think I should stop eating so much meat and more veggies.

My sleep improved about 1.5 additional hours per night. I can almost get 8 hours of sleep during the night, which is huge for me.

Erection and Libido slightly better, morning wood every other day, sensation is better. Have not had pain in the balls for a while now, which is important to keep in mind.

No mental issues, never had any.

What I am doing really well:

- Getting as much sleep as possible
- meditating every day
- doing the breathing exercise while meditating
- cold showers everyday
- brushing my skin twice per week
- diet is on point
- I take magnesium, spirulina, chlorella and vitamin D regularly.
- avoiding xenoestrogens as much as possible

What I need to improve on:

- I am a bit lazy with working out (only twice per week, no HIIT). The gyms are all closed and it is freezing cold outside.
- No herbs so far. I think I will start the herbs as soon as I can work out in the gym again.
- Due to my job and to the weather it is hard to get some sunlight. Also, I live in the city, how should I sun my boys?
- I have a new job and it is very stressful. I do not get along with my boss. So it is hard to avoid stress at the moment.

Let's go!

[Cdsnuts]

Happy new year to everybody!

Almost 2 months have passed since my waterfast. I had terrible diarrhea for 3 days after breaking the fast. I broke the fast with bone broth and juice. Since then I eat paleo only.

My digestion was perfect for the first months. Unfortunately, it is getting worse again. I think I should stop eating so much meat and more veggies.

My sleep improved about 1.5 additional hours per night. I can almost get 8 hours of sleep during the night, which is huge for me.

Erection and Libido slightly better, morning wood every other day, sensation is better. Have not had pain in the balls for a while now, which is important to keep in mind.

No mental issues, never had any.

What I am doing really well:

- Getting as much sleep as possible
- meditating every day
- doing the breathing exercise while meditating
- cold showers everyday
- brushing my skin twice per week
- diet is on point
- I take magnesium, spirulina, chlorella and vitamin D regularly.
- avoiding xenoestrogens as much as possible

What I need to improve on:

- I am a bit lazy with working out (only twice per week, no HIIT). The gyms are all closed and it is freezing cold outside.
- No herbs so far. I think I will start the herbs as soon as I can work out in the gym again.
- Due to my job and to the weather it is hard to get some sunlight. Also, I live in the city, how should I sun my boys?
- I have a new job and it is very stressful. I do not get along with my boss. So it is hard to avoid stress at the moment.

Let's go!


No sense it waiting on the herbs. They are a huge part of recovery. You should also be working out at least 3 days/week. No gym necessary. Just hit the calisthenics hard. You should also force yourself to do HIIT at least once a week.

These things will get you better, faster.

You can always sit by on open window (so the sun isn't filtered through the glass) and just have the sun hit them for a few minutes.

[Turnover25]

Happy new year to everybody!

Almost 2 months have passed since my waterfast. I had terrible diarrhea for 3 days after breaking the fast. I broke the fast with bone broth and juice. Since then I eat paleo only.

My digestion was perfect for the first months. Unfortunately, it is getting worse again. I think I should stop eating so much meat and more veggies.

My sleep improved about 1.5 additional hours per night. I can almost get 8 hours of sleep during the night, which is huge for me.

Erection and Libido slightly better, morning wood every other day, sensation is better. Have not had pain in the balls for a while now, which is important to keep in mind.

No mental issues, never had any.

What I am doing really well:

- Getting as much sleep as possible
- meditating every day
- doing the breathing exercise while meditating
- cold showers everyday
- brushing my skin twice per week
- diet is on point
- I take magnesium, spirulina, chlorella and vitamin D regularly.
- avoiding xenoestrogens as much as possible

What I need to improve on:

- I am a bit lazy with working out (only twice per week, no HIIT). The gyms are all closed and it is freezing cold outside.
- No herbs so far. I think I will start the herbs as soon as I can work out in the gym again.
- Due to my job and to the weather it is hard to get some sunlight. Also, I live in the city, how should I sun my boys?
- I have a new job and it is very stressful. I do not get along with my boss. So it is hard to avoid stress at the moment.

Let's go!

As far as exercise, if you can’t get to a gym then buy some free weights. You can do a TON of workouts with a couple of 30-40 pound dumbbells. Even squats. Just throw them over your shoulder and air squat.

As far as HIIT in the cold, I’m from Michigan and I go to a park by my house and run sprints in the snow twice a week. Do I enjoy it? Not really. Sometimes I dread it. It’s freezing af but I don’t have another option, you can always make it work. You’re the only thing in your way.

[Cdsnuts]

As far as exercise, if you can’t get to a gym then buy some free weights. You can do a TON of workouts with a couple of 30-40 pound dumbbells. Even squats. Just throw them over your shoulder and air squat.

As far as HIIT in the cold, I’m from Michigan and I go to a park by my house and run sprints in the snow twice a week. Do I enjoy it? Not really. Sometimes I dread it. It’s freezing af but I don’t have another option, you can always make it work. You’re the only thing in your way.

That's an even better idea then calisthenics. My point being you can make it work if you want to regardless of circumstances. Calilsthenics aren't the most efficient for muscle building, but it's better then nothing.

Man....your lungs must be dying from that cold air.......lol

[Turnover25]

That's an even better idea then calisthenics. My point being you can make it work if you want to regardless of circumstances. Calilsthenics aren't the most efficient for muscle building, but it's better then nothing.

Man....your lungs must be dying from that cold air.......lol

Lungs.. face.. teeth. All of it lol. I thought I was actually dying a couple weeks ago because I couldn’t catch my breath after one of our first snowfalls. Thought that covid had come for me or something.

Also my pipes get freezing in the winter so cold showers are numbing. I take advantage of it, but it is like next level cold compared to summer lol

[Cdsnuts]

Lungs.. face.. teeth. All of it lol. I thought I was actually dying a couple weeks ago because I couldn’t catch my breath after one of our first snowfalls. Thought that covid had come for me or something.

Also my pipes get freezing in the winter so cold showers are numbing. I take advantage of it, but it is like next level cold compared to summer lol

Lol....I know that feeling. I used to ski in Quebec every year.....in January of all months. Skiiing in -40 degrees will show anyone what real cold feels like.....lol.

But concerning the cold showers, the colder, the better. That's the one plus out of the whole thing. And good on you for going out and doing what needs to be done. That's the kind of dedication that pays huge dividends and get's people over to the recovery section.

Great work and props to you.

[Turnover25]

Lol....I know that feeling. I used to ski in Quebec every year.....in January of all months. Skiiing in -40 degrees will show anyone what real cold feels like.....lol.

But concerning the cold showers, the colder, the better. That's the one plus out of the whole thing. And good on you for going out and doing what needs to be done. That's the kind of dedication that pays huge dividends and get's people over to the recovery section.

Great work and props to you.

I can’t even imagine how cold that would be. Might even be cold enough to take the fun out of skiing lol.

Thanks bro. Slowly inching my way there.

[Cdsnuts]

I can’t even imagine how cold that would be. Might even be cold enough to take the fun out of skiing lol.

Thanks bro. Slowly inching my way there.

Actually, it does take the fun out of it. In that weather, if you're skin isn't completely covered, by the time you do one run, your frostbitten. I made the mistake of having a small space between my facemask and goggles. I did one run and by the time I got to the bottom I had two small triangles burned into my face where it was exposed.

[LetsRecover]

Hi guys

Doing ok, no major improvements unfortunately.

I ordered some weights and I lift at home 3 times (each time about 40 mins) a week now. Started HIIT (4 sprints once a week) aswell just recently. I will try to raise it to 5 sprints.

I cycle 13 herbs from the TMO website including pine pollen. Can you explain me why we should take pine pollen daily instead of cycling it like all the other herbs?

Diet is on point. Meditation, cold exposure, breathing, skin brushing too. Chlorella and spirulina give me bad digestion, so I will leave them out for now.

I feel more depressed lately. I just hope for the best and some major improvements soon.

That's all, nothing more to update.

Let's go!

[Cdsnuts]

Hi guys

Doing ok, no major improvements unfortunately.

I ordered some weights and I lift at home 3 times (each time about 40 mins) a week now. Started HIIT (4 sprints once a week) aswell just recently. I will try to raise it to 5 sprints.

I cycle 13 herbs from the TMO website including pine pollen. Can you explain me why we should take pine pollen daily instead of cycling it like all the other herbs?

Diet is on point. Meditation, cold exposure, breathing, skin brushing too. Chlorella and spirulina give me bad digestion, so I will leave them out for now.

I feel more depressed lately. I just hope for the best and some major improvements soon.

That's all, nothing more to update.

Let's go!

Probably the weather. Up your vitamin D.

If you get good results from pine pollen, you can use it daily because when you take it, you are getting very tiny amounts of exogenous active male hormones among other beneficial compounds. The amounts are so minuscule that you don't have to cycle it and it works everytime, no tolerance breaks needed. The other herbs work completely different and need tolerance breaks to hit hardest.

Seems like you have everything dialed in. Set it and forget it. Now your just there for the ride to the other side.

[LetsRecover]

Hello!

Since my last update I am having a huge downswing (if not crash). Symptomwise I am back to square 1 from my small progress and anxiety and suicidal thoughts are back. I just followed the protocol so I do not know why and how it happened.

Many guys are saying that they can not tolerate some herbs, many say it is tribulus. Since I started to feel worse after taking the herbs maybe a certain herb might be the reason. However, this is just guessing.

I also read the thread of LetsGo and how he has not (or only very slightly) improved over 2 years on the protocol. Things like that and my own progress make me question everything and make me panic.

I try to stay positive, but it is very hard at the moment.

Will update again.

Good luck!

[Cdsnuts]

Hello!

Since my last update I am having a huge downswing (if not crash). Symptomwise I am back to square 1 from my small progress and anxiety and suicidal thoughts are back. I just followed the protocol so I do not know why and how it happened.

Many guys are saying that they can not tolerate some herbs, many say it is tribulus. Since I started to feel worse after taking the herbs maybe a certain herb might be the reason. However, this is just guessing.

I also read the thread of LetsGo and how he has not (or only very slightly) improved over 2 years on the protocol. Things like that and my own progress make me question everything and make me panic.

I try to stay positive, but it is very hard at the moment.

Will update again.

Good luck!

I can say almost for a fact that there is no way someone can be doing the protocol 100% for two years and have barely made any progress. It goes against the laws of science. Keep that in mind.

You are going to have times like this. The only thing you can do is to keep going forward. To start doubting yourself when you have your first big downswing is going to do you no favors for the future.

It is THE number one mistake I see guys make. Before an increase in baseline there is usually a bad downswing. This scares guys away when if they would have just kept the status quo, they would have made it out the other side with a higher baseline.

[LetsGo]

Hello!

Since my last update I am having a huge downswing (if not crash). Symptomwise I am back to square 1 from my small progress and anxiety and suicidal thoughts are back. I just followed the protocol so I do not know why and how it happened.

Many guys are saying that they can not tolerate some herbs, many say it is tribulus. Since I started to feel worse after taking the herbs maybe a certain herb might be the reason. However, this is just guessing.

I also read the thread of LetsGo and how he has not (or only very slightly) improved over 2 years on the protocol. Things like that and my own progress make me question everything and make me panic.

I try to stay positive, but it is very hard at the moment.

Will update again.

Good luck!

It’s simply not true that I did not improve, or only very slightly improved, over 2 years. It sounds like you’re only looking at a few statements I wrote during downswings and ignored everything else.

I’d probably be fully recovered right now if it weren’t for Covid-19 and gym closures. If I had been following the protocol 100% from day 1, I’d have fully recovered within a year IMO.

[LetsRecover]

I can say almost for a fact that there is no way someone can be doing the protocol 100% for two years and have barely made any progress. It goes against the laws of science. Keep that in mind.

You are going to have times like this. The only thing you can do is to keep going forward. To start doubting yourself when you have your first big downswing is going to do you no favors for the future.

It is THE number one mistake I see guys make. Before an increase in baseline there is usually a bad downswing. This scares guys away when if they would have just kept the status quo, they would have made it out the other side with a higher baseline.

Thank you cd for the words! I needed that. I will of course keep going. Just came back from sprinting. :)

[LetsRecover]

It’s simply not true that I did not improve, or only very slightly improved, over 2 years. It sounds like you’re only looking at a few statements I wrote during downswings and ignored everything else.

I’d probably be fully recovered right now if it weren’t for Covid-19 and gym closures. If I had been following the protocol 100% from day 1, I’d have fully recovered within a year IMO.

Ah I see. Nice to hear that you did actually improve. Thank you for telling me, means a lot to me! Let us keep going! :)

[Brazilianguy]

Hello!

Since my last update I am having a huge downswing (if not crash). Symptomwise I am back to square 1 from my small progress and anxiety and suicidal thoughts are back. I just followed the protocol so I do not know why and how it happened.

Many guys are saying that they can not tolerate some herbs, many say it is tribulus. Since I started to feel worse after taking the herbs maybe a certain herb might be the reason. However, this is just guessing.

I also read the thread of LetsGo and how he has not (or only very slightly) improved over 2 years on the protocol. Things like that and my own progress make me question everything and make me panic.

I try to stay positive, but it is very hard at the moment.

Will update again.

Good luck!

Hey man I'm feeling exactly like you. What propably happened is that you blocked your estrogen too much (tribulus is one herb that do that) actually if you read, you will see that tribulus Works pretty similar if not equally to Clomid.

I felt insomnia with tribulus, but in the past it was the most sucessful thing I ever take.

With Clomid, you need to take a long time of before you can take again and feel better.

With tribulus I noticed that if I take once a week my body can't handle that well and I will feel anxious, insomnia, depressed, will get wet dreams and I get worse.

Could you please explain what did you feel with each herb?

We created a Whatsapp group, would be cool to talk to you there.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey man I'm feeling exactly like you. What propably happened is that you blocked your estrogen too much (tribulus is one herb that do that) actually if you read, you will see that tribulus Works pretty similar if not equally to Clomid.

I felt insomnia with tribulus, but in the past it was the most sucessful thing I ever take.

With Clomid, you need to take a long time of before you can take again and feel better.

With tribulus I noticed that if I take once a week my body can't handle that well and I will feel anxious, insomnia, depressed, will get wet dreams and I get worse.

Could you please explain what did you feel with each herb?

We created a Whatsapp group, would be cool to talk to you there.

No sense in taking away from this forum. The Whatsapp group is a cool addition, but it doesn't take the place of this forum.

Asking someone what they felt with each herb is a bit much, don't you think. I also think you're focused way too much on Tribulus. It's only one herb...you have over 20 others to choose from.

[LetsGo]

Ah I see. Nice to hear that you did actually improve. Thank you for telling me, means a lot to me! Let us keep going! :)

You’re welcome! My thread talks about my many upswings, where my libido came back 90% or even 100%, and the more recent upswings have lasted for multiple weeks. I had about 8 months with daily morning wood, as well. In my most recent upswing, I almost hit my face when I was fapping, but thankfully with my cat-like reflexes I dodged it and it hit the pillow. I hadn’t had that distance since literally 2009. I also felt my full emotions coming back (during the upswing.)

My progress has been slow and uneven, but that’s my fault. If you’re doubting the protocol, keep in mind that I suffered for 10 years with NO upswings at all, and the protocol was the only thing that ever gave me any signs of progress. Follow the protocol very strictly, and you will recover at the maximum speed. After a few months of full recovery, you can keep whichever parts of the protocol you want and let go of the others. But until then, be hardcore.

[Queens1984]

You’re welcome! My thread talks about my many upswings, where my libido came back 90% or even 100%, and the more recent upswings have lasted for multiple weeks. I had about 8 months with daily morning wood, as well. In my most recent upswing, I almost hit my face when I was fapping, but thankfully with my cat-like reflexes I dodged it and it hit the pillow. I hadn’t had that distance since literally 2009. I also felt my full emotions coming back (during the upswing.)

My progress has been slow and uneven, but that’s my fault. If you’re doubting the protocol, keep in mind that I suffered for 10 years with NO upswings at all, and the protocol was the only thing that ever gave me any signs of progress. Follow the protocol very strictly, and you will recover at the maximum speed. After a few months of full recovery, you can keep whichever parts of the protocol you want and let go of the others. But until then, be hardcore.

Love the Positivity....

[Cdsnuts]

Love the Positivity....

It's even better when it's the truth.

[LetsRecover]

Hello PFS fighters

Time for an update.

Unfortunately, not much change. Maybe sensitivity increased if anything. Sleep worsened again to these constant 6 hours, more is just not possible.

Can one recover sleep without the sleep supplements or are they necessary? If they are "mandatory" I would start adding glycine. Do you know some source for Europe?

My dermatologist prescribed me fin first and then I switched to dut. This is why I am sometimes scared, that my recovery takes longer / is harder.

Thankfully, the gyms opened again, so workouts (3 times a week) are much more efficient now. For HIIT I do sprinting once a week and hockey practice once a week.

[Maximilien]

Tbh I don't think you have the luxury to choose what you want to incorporate from the protocol. You have to be 100% on it especially if you consider yourself a hard case.
I'm not sure if I could recommend something as I am experimenting them right now but Dynveo seems to be a good source, however I'm from France I don't know if they ship to you. Add the supplements as soon as possible you have nothing to loose.



This is why I am sometimes scared, that my recovery takes longer / is harder.

The mechanism behind the symptoms stays the same. Some people crash hard with Fin only, whether it takes years or just 1 pill, saw palmetto proscar or dut, I don't think that matters. You got this

[Cdsnuts]

Hello PFS fighters

Time for an update.

Unfortunately, not much change. Maybe sensitivity increased if anything. Sleep worsened again to these constant 6 hours, more is just not possible.

Can one recover sleep without the sleep supplements or are they necessary? If they are "mandatory" I would start adding glycine. Do you know some source for Europe?

My dermatologist prescribed me fin first and then I switched to dut. This is why I am sometimes scared, that my recovery takes longer / is harder.

Thankfully, the gyms opened again, so workouts (3 times a week) are much more efficient now. For HIIT I do sprinting once a week and hockey practice once a week.

If you have no problem sleeping, first off, congrats to you, because that was the worst for me. The constant insomnia. Secondly, you don't need to take sleep supps if you have no problem sleeping.

[Maximilien]

I though these supplements would benefit everyone in a way: I went from insomnia to long unrestful sleep and I have a hard time waking up (not complaining lol). I thought they could help increase quality of sleep too

[LetsRecover]

Cdsnuts No, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. My sleep is bad. Is the link for glycine on TMO still providing the best source?
Also, in Switzerland we drink a lot of tab water. Do you think that could hinder my recovery because there might be some chemicals added? Should I buy some kind of tab water filter?
Maximilien That's an improvement! What supplements did you take?

[Cdsnuts]

I though these supplements would benefit everyone in a way: I went from insomnia to long unrestful sleep and I have a hard time waking up (not complaining lol). I thought they could help increase quality of sleep too

Sleep is hit or miss and nothing guarantees it. The only thing we can safely do is to make sure where active as we can be during the day and take "sleep stacks" at night.

No one said it's a magic bullet. Just as much natural help as you can get.

[Cdsnuts]

Cdsnuts No, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. My sleep is bad. Is the link for glycine on TMO still providing the best source?
Also, in Switzerland we drink a lot of tab water. Do you think that could hinder my recovery because there might be some chemicals added? Should I buy some kind of tab water filter?
Maximilien That's an improvement! What supplements did you take?

Gycline is simply an amino acid so it's something that is standardized pretty much

I wouldn't drink tap water....treated with way to many chemicals. Use this: Amazon.com: ZeroWater ZP-006-4, 6 Cup Water Filter Pitcher with Water Quality Meter, White and Blue: Pitcher Water Filters: Home Kitchen (https://amzn.to/3tE2fed)

[LetsRecover]

Ok, then I will buy some glycine from Switzerland.

Thanks for the link Cd. Unfortunately, this water filter pitcher is not available anymore (and they do not know if it will be back in stock). I will try and find one in Switzerland aswell, ok?

[Cdsnuts]

Ok, then I will buy some glycine from Switzerland.

Thanks for the link Cd. Unfortunately, this water filter pitcher is not available anymore (and they do not know if it will be back in stock). I will try and find one in Switzerland aswell, ok?

Maybe not that exact one, but there are different sizes and what not that you could get. Point being, that brand is what I suggest.

[Maximilien]

Maximilien That's an improvement! What supplements did you take?

Unfortunately I can't really help.. First month in, I took sleeping pills during 3 days then one night I forgot to take it and realized my sleep had improved, but it really got better when my anxiety went away. I feel Glycine help though

[Cdsnuts]

Unfortunately I can't really help.. First month in, I took sleeping pills during 3 days then one night I forgot to take it and realized my sleep had improved, but it really got better when my anxiety went away. I feel Glycine help though

The glycine definitely helped.

And thankfully you only used those sleeping pills for a few days, because then you would have to kick them as well, and that's not very fun.

[LetsRecover]

Not doing well, no changes in symptoms and motivation gets lower and lower because of that.

It is impossible for me to sleep for longer than 6 hours.

Digestion bad aswell. Today it was bad and I only ate veggies and nuts yesterday.

I do not see a way out. For me the protocol does not seem to work. I have to admit that I could not do HIIT lately due to my groin injury. I won't be able to do it for quite some time. But HIIT is not the reason I am stuck.

[HOPE]

Not doing well, no changes in symptoms and motivation gets lower and lower because of that.

It is impossible for me to sleep for longer than 6 hours.

Digestion bad aswell. Today it was bad and I only ate veggies and nuts yesterday.

I do not see a way out. For me the protocol does not seem to work. I have to admit that I could not do HIIT lately due to my groin injury. I won't be able to do it for quite some time. But HIIT is not the reason I am stuck.

Care to elaborate what you have done? How are your symptoms/how long have you been on the protocol?

[LetsRecover]

Hi HOPE! Thanks for tuning in.

I began with a 11 days water fast in November. Then I started to slowly implement TMO, since December last year I am following the TMO protocol as outlined (however, gyms were closed for 3 months due to Covid, I did bodyweight lifting during that time).

I got symptoms in August 2018 (I think nobody will ever forget the day he crashed). My symptoms are sexual, imsomnia, occasional balls ache, diarrhea and depression (but I think my health status makes me that depressed).

Since then, the progress I have made is neglectable.

[HOPE]

Hi HOPE! Thanks for tuning in.

I began with a 11 days water fast in November. Then I started to slowly implement TMO, since December last year I am following the TMO protocol as outlined (however, gyms were closed for 3 months due to Covid, I did bodyweight lifting during that time).

I got symptoms in August 2018 (I think nobody will ever forget the day he crashed). My symptoms are sexual, imsomnia, occasional balls ache, diarrhea and depression (but I think my health status makes me that depressed).

Since then, the progress I have made is neglectable.

I find it hard to believe you have made no progress. I have only been on the protocol at 100% speed for a few weeks and have already noticed improvements in certain things. What herbs do you cycle? What’s your diet like? What supplements do you take for sleep? Keep in mind sexual improvements will take longer.

[HOPE]

Sorry to say it, but after reading your thread I find it very hard to believe you have been following the protocol closely. You said you were backloading with French fries at one point, eating out regularly… then you sway and say you’ve had improvements following the water fast, but made no progress whatsoever. From your very first posts, you came in with an attitude of skepticism, follow the protocol for a few months, then abandon it. If you did not believe in the protocol, and found no progress for months without doing it - why would you come back and do it? You need to cut to the chase, and do the protocol properly or just don’t bother.

[LetsRecover]

I have never eaten french fries (even though they are allowed on backloading days) since doing the water fast in November. My diet consists of veggies, fruits, nuts, meat and fish with butter or olive oil. Sometimes after working out I allow myself to eat a glutenfree menu in a restaurant for dinner.

Maybe my sensitivity down there improved slightly, that is it.

I started the protocol already a year ago as you said, but quit due to no improvements and gyms closing.

Yes, I am sceptical. I believe in the protocol less than I started, but I still follow it because what other option do I have? Suicide, more drugs or acceptance. All of these are no option for me. Another reason why I restarted the protocol is because I thought a waterfast might be the better option for me rather than the juice feast.

[Tonster96]

There is one more option: Start implementing the prohormones.

[Turnover25]

I have never eaten french fries (even though they are allowed on backloading days) since doing the water fast in November. My diet consists of veggies, fruits, nuts, meat and fish with butter or olive oil. Sometimes after working out I allow myself to eat a glutenfree menu in a restaurant for dinner.

Maybe my sensitivity down there improved slightly, that is it.

I started the protocol already a year ago as you said, but quit due to no improvements and gyms closing.

Yes, I am sceptical. I believe in the protocol less than I started, but I still follow it because what other option do I have? Suicide, more drugs or acceptance. All of these are no option for me. Another reason why I restarted the protocol is because I thought a waterfast might be the better option for me rather than the juice feast.

I think you need to try the prohormones, if you haven’t. I didn’t improve at all until my first cycle, and I had been on the protocol for like 8 or 9 months at that point. I think if you’re doing it without pro hormones, it will take years, especially if you slack at all. Just my two cents.

Also I think the things you’re dealing with are the last to improve, they take way longer. My neurological sides are improving and my sexual sides haven’t budged. My neurological sides were so bad that I haven’t cared about the sexual stuff until now, so I notice it more. Depression seems to take a long time to improve also.

[Outlaw]

I think you need to try the prohormones, if you haven’t. I didn’t improve at all until my first cycle, and I had been on the protocol for like 8 or 9 months at that point. I think if you’re doing it without pro hormones, it will take years, especially if you slack at all. Just my two cents.

Also I think the things you’re dealing with are the last to improve, they take way longer. My neurological sides are improving and my sexual sides haven’t budged. My neurological sides were so bad that I haven’t cared about the sexual stuff until now, so I notice it more. Depression seems to take a long time to improve also.
Hey Turnover I thought your sexual sides had improved after your 2nd cycle? I remember reading you had no more ED, no premature ejac, could have sex, and were sleeping with more woman than ever.

Idk, just trying to understand hahah, I certainly would not call that "not budging".

Hope you're good

[Turnover25]

Hey Turnover I thought your sexual sides had improved after your 2nd cycle? I remember reading you had no more ED, no premature ejac, could have sex, and were sleeping with more woman than ever.

Idk, just trying to understand hahah, I certainly would not call that "not budging".

Hope you're good

Yeah man I guess you’re right it has improved. I wrote that when I was still on cycle and my sex life was almost back to normal. Usually for me i can sleep around like normal on cycle but after cycle I go back to not having a sex drive, which is how I feel now. I’m a dog on prohormones though, which is hopefully gonna be the norm soon.

[xxaleksi]

Definitely give the prohormones a go. I'm not CD, but I personally think prohormones may be necessary for the more severe cases. I always felt like I was plateauing if I went for months without them. After a successful cycle I'd always make great progress.

I never really talked about my neurological symptoms, but they were severe. Head pressure, severe dizziness, muscle weakness, neuropathy type symptoms, body felt super heavy, rocking boat feeling, feeling like I was about to fall over when walking, burning in my legs, couldn't relax at all ever, anxiety 24/7. This on top of all the sexual symptoms, losing 10kg and skin changes.

Now I look and feel great, am the most confident I've ever been in my life, in great shape and have a new appreciation for life. And the prohormones were a MAJOR factor in me getting here. Take the plunge man.

[Outlaw]

Yeah man I guess you’re right it has improved. I wrote that when I was still on cycle and my sex life was almost back to normal. Usually for me i can sleep around like normal on cycle but after cycle I go back to not having a sex drive, which is how I feel now. I’m a dog on prohormones though, which is hopefully gonna be the norm soon.
Yeah I feel you. It's still great though, I'm on cycle now and I'm certainly not a dog. We'll get there, all in due time

[Jado]

Definitely give the prohormones a go. I'm not CD, but I personally think prohormones may be necessary for the more severe cases. I always felt like I was plateauing if I went for months without them. After a successful cycle I'd always make great progress.

I never really talked about my neurological symptoms, but they were severe. Head pressure, severe dizziness, muscle weakness, neuropathy type symptoms, body felt super heavy, rocking boat feeling, feeling like I was about to fall over when walking, burning in my legs, couldn't relax at all ever, anxiety 24/7. This on top of all the sexual symptoms, losing 10kg and skin changes.

Now I look and feel great, am the most confident I've ever been in my life, in great shape and have a new appreciation for life. And the prohormones were a MAJOR factor in me getting here. Take the plunge man.
Hey man, super encouraged by your post. I too have had severe neuro/mental sides. The rocking boat feeling is spot on. I've attempted prohormones a couple of times now, but I always seem to have issues e.g. anxiety/depression/de-realization. It really makes sense that should help, and I really want to get through a complete cycle, but I haven't had any luck, so far...
Did you have any issues during your cycles? I've seen some guys are adding 4-Andro. Do you have any experience with this? Any input/advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[xxaleksi]

Hey man, super encouraged by your post. I too have had severe neuro/mental sides. The rocking boat feeling is spot on. I've attempted prohormones a couple of times now, but I always seem to have issues e.g. anxiety/depression/de-realization. It really makes sense that should help, and I really want to get through a complete cycle, but I haven't had any luck, so far...
Did you have any issues during your cycles? I've seen some guys are adding 4-Andro. Do you have any experience with this? Any input/advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Hey dude,

It's my understanding that the rocking boat sensation, dizziness and many of the other extreme neurological problems from Fin are caused by either high progesterone or high progesterone receptor activity, most likely because progesterone isn't being converted to neurosteroids by 5AR, causing a backload of progesterone. Finasteride also acts as a synthetic progestin, so that could be another cause.

Here are some high progesterone symptoms:

The Complete List of High Progesterone Symptoms in Women (https://www.restartmed.com/high-progesterone-symptoms/)

https://www.mavenclinic.com/forum/posts/43686/why-does-progesterone-cause-dizziness

I had all of these symptoms at my worst. When I'd go to bed at night and close my eyes, I'd feel like I was falling through the bed or would get really bad vertigo. Often things in my vision would literally look like they were spinning and it would affect my balance. Crazy stuff.

I would try and finish the cycle if I were you. I've had cycles where I felt horrible but would feel amazing after stopping it. And yeah, I've used 4-Andro and really felt great but it definitely suppressed me a bit. Recovered from it though after a few weeks.

[Jado]

Hey dude,

It's my understanding that the rocking boat sensation, dizziness and many of the other extreme neurological problems from Fin are caused by either high progesterone or high progesterone receptor activity, most likely because progesterone isn't being converted to neurosteroids by 5AR, causing a backload of progesterone. Finasteride also acts as a synthetic progestin, so that could be another cause.

Here are some high progesterone symptoms:

The Complete List of High Progesterone Symptoms in Women (https://www.restartmed.com/high-progesterone-symptoms/)

https://www.mavenclinic.com/forum/posts/43686/why-does-progesterone-cause-dizziness

I had all of these symptoms at my worst. When I'd go to bed at night and close my eyes, I'd feel like I was falling through the bed or would get really bad vertigo. Often things in my vision would literally look like they were spinning and it would affect my balance. Crazy stuff.

I would try and finish the cycle if I were you. I've had cycles where I felt horrible but would feel amazing after stopping it. And yeah, I've used 4-Andro and really felt great but it definitely suppressed me a bit. Recovered from it though after a few weeks.

Right on, man. Thanks for the reply, and the info. In a downswing currently, but when it's over I'm gonna try to cycle again. All of my symptoms have improved (including the dizziness), and many are pretty much gone altogether. If I can just get rid of this dizziness, completely, I'll be right as rain. Thanks, again.

[LetsRecover]

Tonster96 Turnover25 xxaleksi Thanks for tuning in and for your advise about the prohormones!

It is nice to see that there is some life in this thread :)

I always wanted to avoid hormones, even prohormones, because I wanted to recover naturally. But it seems like it is hard to make progress without it. So I will probably give R-andro a go. Do you guys think this is the right choice of all the prohormones?

[Jado]

Hey dude,

It's my understanding that the rocking boat sensation, dizziness and many of the other extreme neurological problems from Fin are caused by either high progesterone or high progesterone receptor activity, most likely because progesterone isn't being converted to neurosteroids by 5AR, causing a backload of progesterone. Finasteride also acts as a synthetic progestin, so that could be another cause.

Here are some high progesterone symptoms:

The Complete List of High Progesterone Symptoms in Women (https://www.restartmed.com/high-progesterone-symptoms/)

https://www.mavenclinic.com/forum/posts/43686/why-does-progesterone-cause-dizziness

I had all of these symptoms at my worst. When I'd go to bed at night and close my eyes, I'd feel like I was falling through the bed or would get really bad vertigo. Often things in my vision would literally look like they were spinning and it would affect my balance. Crazy stuff.

I would try and finish the cycle if I were you. I've had cycles where I felt horrible but would feel amazing after stopping it. And yeah, I've used 4-Andro and really felt great but it definitely suppressed me a bit. Recovered from it though after a few weeks.

Hey man, one more question, if I may...what 4-Andro have you used?

[xxaleksi]

Hey man, one more question, if I may...what 4-Andro have you used?

I used Alpha Four from Iconic Formulations

[Cdsnuts]

I used Alpha Four from Iconic Formulations

This is the best one, IMO

[Cdsnuts]

Tonster96 Turnover25 xxaleksi Thanks for tuning in and for your advise about the prohormones!

It is nice to see that there is some life in this thread :)

I always wanted to avoid hormones, even prohormones, because I wanted to recover naturally. But it seems like it is hard to make progress without it. So I will probably give R-andro a go. Do you guys think this is the right choice of all the prohormones?

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