First prohormone cycle

[joelander]

Hi guys, wanted to ask I am about to start my first prohormone cycle, after herb rotation for about 6 months.....I bought 3 bottles of super 4 andro by Iron mag labs.....I accidentally bought the wrong one, since there is no more andro hard......should I try the super 4 andro or just ditch it and get the Androhard Transdermal by muscle gelz which Cds recommends?
cheers fellas

[xxaleksi]

I'd get the AH transdermal. The whole point of cycling is to increase DHT, which in turn increases 5ar.

4 andro converts to testosterone not DHT so it's probably not really useful for pfs as a standalone

[tallstraw]

I'd get the AH transdermal. The whole point of cycling is to increase DHT, which in turn increases 5ar.

4 andro converts to testosterone not DHT so it's probably not really useful for pfs as a standalone

Yeah, and testosterone converts to DHT. Additionally, Androhard, the 2-step precursor converts to DHT. So, what’s the difference in one to the other, or does one convert more readily? I’m playing catchup here to learn about this PFS stuff.

[xxaleksi]

Yeah, and testosterone converts to DHT. Additionally, Androhard, the 2-step precursor converts to DHT. So, what’s the difference in one to the other, or does one convert more readily? I’m playing catchup here to learn about this PFS stuff.

With PFS, 5 alpha reductase most likely isn't working properly so testosterone isn't converting to DHT like it should. Androhard converts to dht through a different pathway, not through 5ar.

The idea of cycling a DHT prohormone with PFS is to stimulate 5ar production as there's evidence that the mere presence of high DHT levels will force the body to create more 5ar enzymes.

[slader1]

Yeah, and testosterone converts to DHT. Additionally, Androhard, the 2-step precursor converts to DHT. So, what’s the difference in one to the other, or does one convert more readily? I’m playing catchup here to learn about this PFS stuff.

Testosterone is often high in pfs guys, because it cannot convert down the 5ar pathway into DHT. Instead, much of the testosterone is probably converted into estrogen, making matters worse. Androsterone is 5-ar recuded dhea, and is readily converted into dht and not estrogen. I've seen studies demonstrating that DHT has a positive feedback loop with 5-ar, so over time the higher DHT levels will create higher 5ar levels and vice versa.

[Cdsnuts]

Hi guys, wanted to ask I am about to start my first prohormone cycle, after herb rotation for about 6 months.....I bought 3 bottles of super 4 andro by Iron mag labs.....I accidentally bought the wrong one, since there is no more andro hard......should I try the super 4 andro or just ditch it and get the Androhard Transdermal by muscle gelz which Cds recommends?
cheers fellas

You want to run a DHT based prohormone for your first couple cycles. I wouldn't use that as a stand alone right now. Save it for later.

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Testosterone is often high in pfs guys, because it cannot convert down the 5ar pathway into DHT. Instead, much of the testosterone is probably converted into estrogen, making matters worse. Androsterone is 5-ar recuded dhea, and is readily converted into dht and not estrogen. I've seen studies demonstrating that DHT has a positive feedback loop with 5-ar, so over time the higher DHT levels will create higher 5ar levels and vice versa.

Boom^^^^^^

It's for this very reason DHT PH's are recommended.

[joelander]

cheers fellas...ill ditch the 4 andro and get the Androhard Transdermal by muscle gelz

[tallstraw]

With PFS, 5 alpha reductase most likely isn't working properly so testosterone isn't converting to DHT like it should. Androhard converts to dht through a different pathway, not through 5ar.

The idea of cycling a DHT prohormone with PFS is to stimulate 5ar production as there's evidence that the mere presence of high DHT levels will force the body to create more 5ar enzymes.
So why not just take proviron directly? Seems like the scenic route.


Testosterone is often high in pfs guys, because it cannot convert down the 5ar pathway into DHT. Instead, much of the testosterone is probably converted into estrogen, making matters worse. Androsterone is 5-ar recuded dhea, and is readily converted into dht and not estrogen. I've seen studies demonstrating that DHT has a positive feedback loop with 5-ar, so over time the higher DHT levels will create higher 5ar levels and vice versa.
Or to take on to my previous comment, a suicidal AI and proviron. Or is that part of the program?

[slader1]

So why not just take proviron directly? Seems like the scenic route.


Or to take on to my previous comment, a suicidal AI and proviron. Or is that part of the program?

What do you you mean by "suicidal" AI? I personally don't see much utility in AI, other than for increasing testosterone or trying to bring high estrogen down. If someone already has decent testosterone and low estrogen, than AI will not benefit them much and may actually cause Low e2 side effects, such as dry joints/low libido. I have spent many years trying to inhibit aromatase and found that weak AI's make me feel the best, because anything too strong will lead to problems.

Proviron I would imagine having similar effects to androsterone, though I haven't done enough reading on it yet.

[tallstraw]

What do you you mean by "suicidal" AI? I personally don't see much utility in AI, other than for increasing testosterone or trying to bring high estrogen down.
what do you mean what do I mean.. you have suicide and non suicidal AI's..? One is permanent one isn't.
You also said many guys have high test and it is converted to estrogen hence my response to control with an AI. So I dont think the low estrogen side effecfs would be much of a concern for many, correct?
Then adding in proviron instead of androsterone since it would be the target hormone you were searching for. However I misspoke, as I mistakenly thought proviron was oral dht, which is isn't exactly. So I would substitute my earlier comment and say why not a suicidal AI, and then add just take DHT. Such as the creams they sell with DHT in them?

[slader1]

what do you mean what do I mean.. you have suicide and non suicidal AI's..? One is permanent one isn't.
You also said many guys have high test and it is converted to estrogen hence my response to control with an AI. So I dont think the low estrogen side effecfs would be much of a concern for many, correct?
Then adding in proviron instead of androsterone since it would be the target hormone you were searching for. However I misspoke, as I mistakenly thought proviron was oral dht, which is isn't exactly. So I would substitute my earlier comment and say why not a suicidal AI, and then add just take DHT. Such as the creams they sell with DHT in them?

Yes it was my understanding that proviron is a dht precursor. It is apparently very difficult to obtain DHT cream, and I think you need to see a specialized endo for that. It would likely work well for recovery, though.

I never read about suicidal vs non-suicidal AI's, and to be honest I am skeptical about that right off the bat. Nothing in endocrinology is really permanent, as the name "suicidal" would suggest.

[tallstraw]

Yes it was my understanding that proviron is a dht precursor. It is apparently very difficult to obtain DHT cream, and I think you need to see a specialized endo for that. It would likely work well for recovery, though.

I never read about suicidal vs non-suicidal AI's, and to be honest I am skeptical about that right off the bat. Nothing in endocrinology is really permanent, as the name "suicidal" would suggest.

Lol science doesn't care what you are skeptical of, this is an observable fact man. How you have researched AI's and never come across the distinction between the two is puzzling to me.
Proviron is not a pro hormone, it is an active steroid. I was just mistaken on which one.
It isn't hard to find, once you have been around these types of forums long enough you will be able to find anything you want, I assure you.

Plenty of things are permanent in endocrinology, idk where you heard that one.

[slader1]

The essence of science is skepticism. I have actually read a bit on AI's, and never come across that. I'm not saying you're wrong.

By permanence I was speaking more to systemic conditions, such as pfs or low T. Someone's endocrinology is always changing and beeing affected by food, environment, stress, etc.

You are for sure right that there are suicidal cells and chemicals in biology, Ive just never heard that about AI's.