Ratchet’s Story & Recovery

[Ratchet]

Intelligent people learn from their own mistakes; wise people learn from the mistakes of others.

I would like to start my thread by thanking most of you on this forum for creating a community that’s extremely supportive and conducive to healing. It’s only through the sum total of your trial & error, determination, and persistence that guys like me can effectively combat PFS and not drown in it. I would also like to refer everyone here to the expression above, in order to reiterate the importance of utilizing the experience of those who came before us. This expression has served me well throughout my life, and it’s been foundational to my recovery so far.

A little bit of background about me:

I’m 24. I’m from the USA. I took 67 pills (1mg/day) of generic finasteride starting 08/2019 and ending on 10/11/2019, a date that I’ll remember for a very long time. I’ve always been a health-forward individual, and I practiced many of the components of this protocol prior to my PFS. I’m an avid athlete who enjoys freestyle skiing and downhill mountain biking, and I’ve competed in CrossFit competitions at the regional level. Over the past decade, I’m also very fortunate to have surrounded myself with exceptional nutritionists and athletes that helped me develop a solid diet and exercise regimen before my PFS. That doesn’t mean I haven’t adjusted and tailored my diet since then, but I’m also already accustomed to certain disciplines that others here might struggle with (i.e. no gluten, dairy, etc.). At the risk of sounding like a cocky douche, this is all to say that I ran parallel to this protocol prior to fully embracing it, and I full-heartedly believe it’s why, despite dealing with all of the sides from PFS (which I go into below), I’ve experienced/made such significant improvements in a relatively short period of time.

My story:

My story is much the same. I’ve dealt with, and continue to deal with, almost all of the sides associated with PFS to varying degrees. Though, I can honestly say that, directionally, I’ve improved in almost all areas.

So, 67 pills. I experienced the sore/swollen nuts and watery ejaculate first, about a week and half after beginning treatment. I was in a long distance relationship at the time, and my girlfriend visited over Labor Day weekend. I was told about the possibility of these “mild” side effects, and they subsided, so I continued treatment. My girlfriend visited again a month later, and the desensitization of my dick was much more noticeable this time around. During our time spent together, I was either cumming too quick or not cumming at all, and the volume and consistency of my jizz had changed as well. Nevertheless, my hair was already returning with a thickness and health that I hadn’t seen in a long time. My energy levels and gains improved too, probably due to my inflated test level, and I actually felt quite good, so I continued treatment. It wasn’t until a blowout engagement party/weekend, filled with copious amounts of booze and blow, that everything really turned south and the more symptomatic sides set in. I could not concentrate. I could not recall words. I could hardly remember what day it was. I was shell-shocked. Almost overnight, I had turned into a dull, dumb, slow twat. I attributed it to my hangover, which part of it was, but this marked, without a doubt, the beginning of my more troublesome sides and PFS nightmare. I began experiencing uncharacteristic mood swings and panic attacks, shortly thereafter. Things as innocuous as a dog barking in my ear would send me into bouts of anger/rage. I remember asking my mom, “Why am I so angry right now?”. I would have unwarranted, spontaneous panic attacks while driving that would force me to pull over. I’d never experienced any of this, and I was genuinely mindfucked. After experiencing a mild headache and serious tinnitus for a few days, I googled it.

Words of wisdom: Don’t go to PH. If you’re reading this, chances are that you already have and don’t need me to tell you this. I owe a lot to some of the members on PH, and many of them put immense amounts of well-intentioned effort into helping our community. I plan on submitting my 23andme results and contributing in various other ways in the future. But, FUCK THAT FORUM. It will trigger you. It will stress you out. One way or another, it will set you back.

After discovering PH and the horror stories online, I was spun for weeks. I consulted my dermatologist, discontinued fin, and awaited my impending doom. My first crash happened about a week after discontinuation. I woke up shivering, and my temp read 95 degrees. I went to the gym and used another thermometer that clocked me at 94.7. I was smacked. The blurry vision ensued. The insomnia ensued (before, I was able to sleep a full eight uninterrupted), and I began waking up exactly four hours after falling asleep, followed by tossing and turning and waking up every hour thereafter. I received the entire sexual dysfunction pack, complete with the brain/ball disconnect and no nocturnals or morning woods. I developed the typical shrinkage and veins that are commonly reported, and I watched my healthy buddy decay into a decrepit, gray, sad little thing. My nuts shrunk, and I’m convinced that I lost some girth when erect as well. Length seems to be intact. My nutsack also did/does that unassisted dance, and it deviates between looking like a turkey’s neck and touching the floor to being so tucked up that it’s almost nonexistent. I also had issues being in high-traffic, public places, and the “thinking through a blanket” analogy for brain fog fits my experience with it very well. I had difficulty speaking, and I’d sometimes slur my “s” words. I’d lose track of my train of thought mid-sentence, and I couldn’t form a single cogent, complete thought or argument. Whether its OCD or PFS, I’ve also had music playing in my head since I crashed. I can change the song to whatever I want, but it’s always there, unless I am truly engaged with my surroundings. I had the “twitches”, the “floaters”, and the dry skin. I was even so constipated (first time in my life) that my girlfriend had to give me a fuckin’ enema. Bless her heart. I’m anemic, hypoxemic when I sleep (sleep study results), and I experience intermittent periods of jaundice in my hands (my ALT/ASTs have increased from the low to high end of the range). I’m probably missing some things, but it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme here.

For the past three and a half months, I’ve done the PFS dance. I’ve seen multiple GPs and specialists, and I’ve done all of the tests. I was diagnosed with “mild” secondary hypogonadism and Peyronie’s disease (I developed the fabled “hourglass” and my cock started to kink hard left), and I was prescribed lorazepam, tadalafil, and pentoxifylline. I was also offered numerous SSRIs, to which I declined. I played around with the lorazepam, but all that it really did was jack up my memory some more. I took the tadalafil and pentox for about a week, before I elected to forgo all pharmaceuticals in my quest for recovery. I also stepped down as an analyst for a private wealth advisory firm and began working as a warehouse employee and a ski patroller. I find both of these stress-free and enjoyable and a nice balance to my recovery.

And that’s where I’m currently at. I would like to add that I’m in a huge downswing at the moment as well. A lot of my symptoms resurfaced today, despite a lot of gradual improvement, sleeping for a full seven hours uninterrupted for the first time in almost four months last night, and little deviation from the protocol. I did suffer a full-blown concussion last week (diagnosed), so I know that’s playing a role, as I have been unable to exercise or do anything really. My girlfriend and I decided to split last weekend too, so it could be residual stress. Who knows? I’ve also been dosing myself with ~700mg of magnesium a night these past few weeks, and it doesn’t help that I discovered some obscure thread by @Paigedol today, or something along those lines, describing what seemed to be an earth-shattering crash from nightly magnesium and glycine supplementation. Would love to hear thoughts on this.

I began the true protocol earlier this month with a five day water fast (cut short by a winter storm I just had to ski :D). I have not started cycling herbs yet, but I have been taking ashwaghanda and MACA powder since I crashed, as I took them prior to my PFS. I don’t have any intention of R-Andro at the moment, but I don’t know what the future holds.

I'm full of insight and have many recommendations that I could go into, but I’m also tired of writing. There’s way too much to put down in a comprehensive post. I’d rather just go into detail through interaction here.

And with that, I’d like to open the floor to all comments, questions, and concerns. I look forward to dealing with you boys during my journey.

Ratchet

[covfefe42]

Welcome dude. I can relate to a lot of your symptoms and experiences. Kinda concerned about the magnesium and glycine crashing someone but they’ve really helped me out so far.

It’ll be interesting to see how your journey goes bro

[helpisontheway]

Just so yall know pageidol is doing good he recovered from those depressing post really didnt wanna talk about pfs tho

[Samsemilia]

Really how do you know? Everytime I make my collagen shake I remember his posts about it!

[xxaleksi]

Just so yall know pageidol is doing good he recovered from those depressing post really didnt wanna talk about pfs tho

That’s great to hear. Do you know why he hasn’t posted on this forum to update us?

- - - Updated - - -


Intelligent people learn from their own mistakes; wise people learn from the mistakes of others.

I would like to start my thread by thanking most of you on this forum for creating a community that’s extremely supportive and conducive to healing. It’s only through the sum total of your trial & error, determination, and persistence that guys like me can effectively combat PFS and not drown in it. I would also like to refer everyone here to the expression above, in order to reiterate the importance of utilizing the experience of those who came before us. This expression has served me well throughout my life, and it’s been foundational to my recovery so far.

A little bit of background about me:

I’m 24. I’m from the USA. I took 67 pills (1mg/day) of generic finasteride starting 08/2019 and ending on 10/11/2019, a date that I’ll remember for a very long time. I’ve always been a health-forward individual, and I practiced many of the components of this protocol prior to my PFS. I’m an avid athlete who enjoys freestyle skiing and downhill mountain biking, and I’ve competed in CrossFit competitions at the regional level. Over the past decade, I’m also very fortunate to have surrounded myself with exceptional nutritionists and athletes that helped me develop a solid diet and exercise regimen before my PFS. That doesn’t mean I haven’t adjusted and tailored my diet since then, but I’m also already accustomed to certain disciplines that others here might struggle with (i.e. no gluten, dairy, etc.). At the risk of sounding like a cocky douche, this is all to say that I ran parallel to this protocol prior to fully embracing it, and I full-heartedly believe it’s why, despite dealing with all of the sides from PFS (which I go into below), I’ve experienced/made such significant improvements in a relatively short period of time.

My story:

My story is much the same. I’ve dealt with, and continue to deal with, almost all of the sides associated with PFS to varying degrees. Though, I can honestly say that, directionally, I’ve improved in almost all areas.

So, 67 pills. I experienced the sore/swollen nuts and watery ejaculate first, about a week and half after beginning treatment. I was in a long distance relationship at the time, and my girlfriend visited over Labor Day weekend. I was told about the possibility of these “mild” side effects, and they subsided, so I continued treatment. My girlfriend visited again a month later, and the desensitization of my dick was much more noticeable this time around. During our time spent together, I was either cumming too quick or not cumming at all, and the volume and consistency of my jizz had changed as well. Nevertheless, my hair was already returning with a thickness and health that I hadn’t seen in a long time. My energy levels and gains improved too, probably due to my inflated test level, and I actually felt quite good, so I continued treatment. It wasn’t until a blowout engagement party/weekend, filled with copious amounts of booze and blow, that everything really turned south and the more symptomatic sides set in. I could not concentrate. I could not recall words. I could hardly remember what day it was. I was shell-shocked. Almost overnight, I had turned into a dull, dumb, slow twat. I attributed it to my hangover, which part of it was, but this marked, without a doubt, the beginning of my more troublesome sides and PFS nightmare. I began experiencing uncharacteristic mood swings and panic attacks, shortly thereafter. Things as innocuous as a dog barking in my ear would send me into bouts of anger/rage. I remember asking my mom, “Why am I so angry right now?”. I would have unwarranted, spontaneous panic attacks while driving that would force me to pull over. I’d never experienced any of this, and I was genuinely mindfucked. After experiencing a mild headache and serious tinnitus for a few days, I googled it.

Words of wisdom: Don’t go to PH. If you’re reading this, chances are that you already have and don’t need me to tell you this. I owe a lot to some of the members on PH, and many of them put immense amounts of well-intentioned effort into helping our community. I plan on submitting my 23andme results and contributing in various other ways in the future. But, FUCK THAT FORUM. It will trigger you. It will stress you out. One way or another, it will set you back.

After discovering PH and the horror stories online, I was spun for weeks. I consulted my dermatologist, discontinued fin, and awaited my impending doom. My first crash happened about a week after discontinuation. I woke up shivering, and my temp read 95 degrees. I went to the gym and used another thermometer that clocked me at 94.7. I was smacked. The blurry vision ensued. The insomnia ensued (before, I was able to sleep a full eight uninterrupted), and I began waking up exactly four hours after falling asleep, followed by tossing and turning and waking up every hour thereafter. I received the entire sexual dysfunction pack, complete with the brain/ball disconnect and no nocturnals or morning woods. I developed the typical shrinkage and veins that are commonly reported, and I watched my healthy buddy decay into a decrepit, gray, sad little thing. My nuts shrunk, and I’m convinced that I lost some girth when erect as well. Length seems to be intact. My nutsack also did/does that unassisted dance, and it deviates between looking like a turkey’s neck and touching the floor to being so tucked up that it’s almost nonexistent. I also had issues being in high-traffic, public places, and the “thinking through a blanket” analogy for brain fog fits my experience with it very well. I had difficulty speaking, and I’d sometimes slur my “s” words. I’d lose track of my train of thought mid-sentence, and I couldn’t form a single cogent, complete thought or argument. Whether its OCD or PFS, I’ve also had music playing in my head since I crashed. I can change the song to whatever I want, but it’s always there, unless I am truly engaged with my surroundings. I had the “twitches”, the “floaters”, and the dry skin. I was even so constipated (first time in my life) that my girlfriend had to give me a fuckin’ enema. Bless her heart. I’m anemic, hypoxemic when I sleep (sleep study results), and I experience intermittent periods of jaundice in my hands (my ALT/ASTs have increased from the low to high end of the range). I’m probably missing some things, but it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme here.

For the past three and a half months, I’ve done the PFS dance. I’ve seen multiple GPs and specialists, and I’ve done all of the tests. I was diagnosed with “mild” secondary hypogonadism and Peyronie’s disease (I developed the fabled “hourglass” and my cock started to kink hard left), and I was prescribed lorazepam, tadalafil, and pentoxifylline. I was also offered numerous SSRIs, to which I declined. I played around with the lorazepam, but all that it really did was jack up my memory some more. I took the tadalafil and pentox for about a week, before I elected to forgo all pharmaceuticals in my quest for recovery. I also stepped down as an analyst for a private wealth advisory firm and began working as a warehouse employee and a ski patroller. I find both of these stress-free and enjoyable and a nice balance to my recovery.

And that’s where I’m currently at. I would like to add that I’m in a huge downswing at the moment as well. A lot of my symptoms resurfaced today, despite a lot of gradual improvement, sleeping for a full seven hours uninterrupted for the first time in almost four months last night, and little deviation from the protocol. I did suffer a full-blown concussion last week (diagnosed), so I know that’s playing a role, as I have been unable to exercise or do anything really. My girlfriend and I decided to split last weekend too, so it could be residual stress. Who knows? I’ve also been dosing myself with ~700mg of magnesium a night these past few weeks, and it doesn’t help that I discovered some obscure thread by @Paigedol today, or something along those lines, describing what seemed to be an earth-shattering crash from nightly magnesium and glycine supplementation. Would love to hear thoughts on this.

I began the true protocol earlier this month with a five day water fast (cut short by a winter storm I just had to ski :D). I have not started cycling herbs yet, but I have been taking ashwaghanda and MACA powder since I crashed, as I took them prior to my PFS. I don’t have any intention of R-Andro at the moment, but I don’t know what the future holds.

I'm full of insight and have many recommendations that I could go into, but I’m also tired of writing. There’s way too much to put down in a comprehensive post. I’d rather just go into detail through interaction here.

And with that, I’d like to open the floor to all comments, questions, and concerns. I look forward to dealing with you boys during my journey.

Ratchet

Welcome man.

Best advice I can give you is to make the protocol your way of life, and try to forget about PFS. You should see some improvements in a few months.

[Bankai9000]

Really how do you know? Everytime I make my collagen shake I remember his posts about it!

I wrote him backthen on facebook and he replied there. Really soothing to know tho. There seems to be quite some people on pph affected by collagen aswell. I had parkinson shaking hands after starting collagen too but I was taking tons of stuff so who knows. It was prob something else for me back then (high copper foods)

Welcome here Ratchet ;D

[helpisontheway]

I spoke to him in chat as well he said he was healing from something else. Told me the herbs are to harsh for him

[Ratchet]

Wow, I just lost the entire message I typed due to not being logged in or a security token? That’s a bitch.

Anyways, here’s a summary:

Just re-read my intro post. Really focused on the negative descriptions of my experience so far, not enough on the positives. That’s not the energy or message I want to bring to my thread or this forum. It didn’t help that I punctuated it by telling all of you about my current downswing.

That being said, I am in a downswing. No way around it. I haven’t deviated from the protocol in almost three months either, but I also haven’t incorporated some of the most important parts yet.

To all the skeptical/anxious/suffering: through diet, exercise, therapy, yoga, meditation, cold exposure, socializing, nature, and like two of the herbs listed on this website (which I took prior to PFS), I’ve experienced prolonged bouts of happiness, libido, motivation, mental clarity, uninterrupted sleep, and a general reduction in all of my side effects (which I so descriptively gave you above). I’ve significantly reduced and managed my depression brought out by fin, and I even popped a no handed stiffy (and held it) on Xmas day through my own flourishing imagination alone. It was a god damn Xmas miracle and all the validation I needed to know that this will work. This has all happened despite stressful setbacks not even associated with fin i.e concussion protocols and unforeseen breakups.

I’ll be beginning my next step in this journey and ordering my herbs soon. I will keep you all updated as to which ones and their effects, if any.

To round this out, I do have some questions.

I have always struggled with the mental symptoms the most, specifically the “brain fog” and “thinking through a blanket” feeling. I also have that weird head pressure. When I fasted, this all went away. It was almost completely absent after cutting out carbs too, so in my mind, it’s probably inflammatory. Prior to PFS, I didn’t have any food sensitivities. Now, however, im a borderline celiac when it comes to gluten (hyperbole). These sides are also triggered to a much lesser degree by dairy, legumes, and carbohydrates in general. This is problematic for me. I need carbohydrates for performance, and I need performance for the reclamation of all those juicy androgens I want back. I currently only backload with sweet potatoes, but I still have persistent brain fog and mental symptoms since I reintroduced carbs back into my diet. Any suggestions? Should I lean into the pain and continue with carbs or find another route? Fruit isn’t as much an issue, but it’s off the table due to my next concern.

My liver. I’ve been experiencing jaundice, primarily in my hands, but to a lesser degree elsewhere. It’s not the beta-carotene or vitA from sweet potatoes, either. I’ve ruled that out. My ALTs/ASTs were 10 and 15 respectively pre-fin, and now they’re in the 30s, despite no booze and a diet on point. Fructose is stressful on the liver, so it’s not a tool I use for glycogen replenishment. I’d love to hear some suggestions (no milk thistle though) from those who experienced and fixed what seems to be a damaged liver. I’ll probably see my GP for further testing if it continues to worsen.

Finally, this downswing has really fricked my balance and coordination. I don’t know how to describe it other than I bump into more shit, I’m clumsy as hell, and just off-kilter. If I didn’t take that poison, I’d think I was developing MS or Parkinson’s. Anybody else experience this?

Otherwise, all the best. I’m in the rocket ship now though, gents. Steam is coming out the bottom. Blast off time, bitch. Next major post gonna be upswing city.

Ratchet

[Maxout777]

Wow, I just lost the entire message I typed due to not being logged in or a security token? That’s a bitch.

Anyways, here’s a summary:

Just re-read my intro post. Really focused on the negative descriptions of my experience so far, not enough on the positives. That’s not the energy or message I want to bring to my thread or this forum. It didn’t help that I punctuated it by telling all of you about my current downswing.

That being said, I am in a downswing. No way around it. I haven’t deviated from the protocol in almost three months either, but I also haven’t incorporated some of the most important parts yet.

To all the skeptical/anxious/suffering: through diet, exercise, therapy, yoga, meditation, cold exposure, socializing, nature, and like two of the herbs listed on this website (which I took prior to PFS), I’ve experienced prolonged bouts of happiness, libido, motivation, mental clarity, uninterrupted sleep, and a general reduction in all of my side effects (which I so descriptively gave you above). I’ve significantly reduced and managed my depression brought out by fin, and I even popped a no handed stiffy (and held it) on Xmas day through my own flourishing imagination alone. It was a god damn Xmas miracle and all the validation I needed to know that this will work. This has all happened despite stressful setbacks not even associated with fin i.e concussion protocols and unforeseen breakups.

I’ll be beginning my next step in this journey and ordering my herbs soon. I will keep you all updated as to which ones and their effects, if any.

To round this out, I do have some questions.

I have always struggled with the mental symptoms the most, specifically the “brain fog” and “thinking through a blanket” feeling. I also have that weird head pressure. When I fasted, this all went away. It was almost completely absent after cutting out carbs too, so in my mind, it’s probably inflammatory. Prior to PFS, I didn’t have any food sensitivities. Now, however, im a borderline celiac when it comes to gluten (hyperbole). These sides are also triggered to a much lesser degree by dairy, legumes, and carbohydrates in general. This is problematic for me. I need carbohydrates for performance, and I need performance for the reclamation of all those juicy androgens I want back. I currently only backload with sweet potatoes, but I still have persistent brain fog and mental symptoms since I reintroduced carbs back into my diet. Any suggestions? Should I lean into the pain and continue with carbs or find another route? Fruit isn’t as much an issue, but it’s off the table due to my next concern.

My liver. I’ve been experiencing jaundice, primarily in my hands, but to a lesser degree elsewhere. It’s not the beta-carotene or vitA from sweet potatoes, either. I’ve ruled that out. My ALTs/ASTs were 10 and 15 respectively pre-fin, and now they’re in the 30s, despite no booze and a diet on point. Fructose is stressful on the liver, so it’s not a tool I use for glycogen replenishment. I’d love to hear some suggestions (no milk thistle though) from those who experienced and fixed what seems to be a damaged liver. I’ll probably see my GP for further testing if it continues to worsen.

Finally, this downswing has really fricked my balance and coordination. I don’t know how to describe it other than I bump into more shit, I’m clumsy as hell, and just off-kilter. If I didn’t take that poison, I’d think I was developing MS or Parkinson’s. Anybody else experience this?

Otherwise, all the best. I’m in the rocket ship now though, gents. Steam is coming out the bottom. Blast off time, bitch. Next major post gonna be upswing city.

Ratchet

For liver, Liver Flushes and TUDCA supplementation. Both fit in on CD’s protocol, they’re just not something he calls out. Neither would inhibit anything else you’d do, only help.

[Bankai9000]

I belive fasting is the best way to fix liver. Get into ketosis, start a fast and then do a minimum of 4days. Longer if possible.
There's a german reportage on fasting on youtube and they say a guy fixed almost his big fatty liver with one single 3week waterfast.
I had a week of very strong shaky hands, like I could feel the shakiness comming already out of my elbow into my hands. Could be the start of collagen or overdose on high copper foods I suspect. Think the coincidence is too big that it started a day or so after I ate a bag of cashews which are a huge copper source.

[Ratchet]

Picked up the YS Royal Jelly. Is this a supp you all encourage taking daily with pine pollen powder, or do you cycle it?

[xxaleksi]

Picked up the YS Royal Jelly. Is this a supp you all encourage taking daily with pine pollen powder, or do you cycle it?

CD says on his website that you can take it daily. I personally cycle it though.

[Ratchet]

Guys,

This question has undoubtedly been answered, and I’ve looked for the answer for the past 30 mins, truly.

I just pulled trigger on herbs and am awaiting delivery.

My question: has anyone discontinued herbs for a prolonged period of time w/o any detriment? I don’t doubt the “once you understand the benefits, you’ll never go back” logic. I follow this principle in exercise, diet, etc. and will in certain disciplines until the day I die. BUT, I don’t want to live a life propped up by pine trees and fulvic acid. I made that fucking mistake already when I fucktardedly concluded, “fin for life isn’t such a bad trade-off for my hair”. Point being, I’m seeking a full recovery, to which I will continue to optimize regardless afterwords. But by my definition, optimization/recovery means no regression after dropping supps though. I read all the stickies, so please don’t refer me to the definition of recovery. Just looking for some anecdotes here. Regardless, starting herb cycle here soon, just another kid looking for some reassurance and coddling.

Also, took .625mg Royal Jelly for two days in a row. Experienced overwhelming anxiety/emotional breakdowns after 2nd day. Felt similar to attacks during onset of fin sides.

Before some of you here who are taking Royal Jelly become concerned, know that I have been extremely stressed from my recent breakup. This is 95% the contributing factor to what has been going on and is definitely exacerbating my downswing. I’m doing my best to manage it, but breakups are mindfucks.

Either way, I researched Royal Jelly & and how it influences androgens. All I quickly gathered was that it’s mentioned in congruence with DHEA and estrogen metabolism/chelation in the liver. Considering the high aromatization activity of PFS guys, the DHEA to E1 pathway, and the fact that my liver seems to have shit the bed lately, just curious if you guys would give any credence to the fact that my panic attack/breakdown could have been greatly influenced by royal jelly (physiologically) by jacking up my E some how. Probably not.

I’ve back burner’d it since and will try incorporating it back once I feel like I’ll be able to differentiate its effects from everything else going on.

Feeling positive, all the best.

[Ratchet]

@Bankai I agree that fasting is excellent route for liver repair; however, I dropped almost 15lbs in five days on my last fast (169-155lbs). I’d like to at least stack some weight and gains back on (rebounded to ~164lbs post-fast), as well as keep my hormone levels balanced for a period of time before I fast again.

@Maxout I am picking up some TUDCA today. Thank you for your input!

[Ratchet]

Anybody here experience a sort of facial numbness? I have been experiencing, along with everything else now, a sort of numbness on my cheeks and cheek bones. It almost feels flushed, but it’s not. It almost feels like walking into a hot room after being out in the cold for a while. I don’t know how to describe it.

[Cdsnuts]

Anybody here experience a sort of facial numbness? I have been experiencing, along with everything else now, a sort of numbness on my cheeks and cheek bones. It almost feels flushed, but it’s not. It almost feels like walking into a hot room after being out in the cold for a while. I don’t know how to describe it.

It's normal. Nerve issues. It'll pass along with everything else. I had this myself. Some times it would feel like I was wearing a mask.

[Maxout777]

Guys,

This question has undoubtedly been answered, and I’ve looked for the answer for the past 30 mins, truly.

I just pulled trigger on herbs and am awaiting delivery.

My question: has anyone discontinued herbs for a prolonged period of time w/o any detriment? I don’t doubt the “once you understand the benefits, you’ll never go back” logic. I follow this principle in exercise, diet, etc. and will in certain disciplines until the day I die. BUT, I don’t want to live a life propped up by pine trees and fulvic acid. I made that fucking mistake already when I fucktardedly concluded, “fin for life isn’t such a bad trade-off for my hair”. Point being, I’m seeking a full recovery, to which I will continue to optimize regardless afterwords. But by my definition, optimization/recovery means no regression after dropping supps though. I read all the stickies, so please don’t refer me to the definition of recovery. Just looking for some anecdotes here. Regardless, starting herb cycle here soon, just another kid looking for some reassurance and coddling.

Also, took .625mg Royal Jelly for two days in a row. Experienced overwhelming anxiety/emotional breakdowns after 2nd day. Felt similar to attacks during onset of fin sides.

Before some of you here who are taking Royal Jelly become concerned, know that I have been extremely stressed from my recent breakup. This is 95% the contributing factor to what has been going on and is definitely exacerbating my downswing. I’m doing my best to manage it, but breakups are mindfucks.

Either way, I researched Royal Jelly & and how it influences androgens. All I quickly gathered was that it’s mentioned in congruence with DHEA and estrogen metabolism/chelation in the liver. Considering the high aromatization activity of PFS guys, the DHEA to E1 pathway, and the fact that my liver seems to have shit the bed lately, just curious if you guys would give any credence to the fact that my panic attack/breakdown could have been greatly influenced by royal jelly (physiologically) by jacking up my E some how. Probably not.

I’ve back burner’d it since and will try incorporating it back once I feel like I’ll be able to differentiate its effects from everything else going on.

Feeling positive, all the best.

I haven’t been on herbs the past year or so. PFS is dead man, it’s not a “prop”.

[Turnover25]

Guys,

This question has undoubtedly been answered, and I’ve looked for the answer for the past 30 mins, truly.

I just pulled trigger on herbs and am awaiting delivery.

My question: has anyone discontinued herbs for a prolonged period of time w/o any detriment? I don’t doubt the “once you understand the benefits, you’ll never go back” logic. I follow this principle in exercise, diet, etc. and will in certain disciplines until the day I die. BUT, I don’t want to live a life propped up by pine trees and fulvic acid. I made that fucking mistake already when I fucktardedly concluded, “fin for life isn’t such a bad trade-off for my hair”. Point being, I’m seeking a full recovery, to which I will continue to optimize regardless afterwords. But by my definition, optimization/recovery means no regression after dropping supps though. I read all the stickies, so please don’t refer me to the definition of recovery. Just looking for some anecdotes here. Regardless, starting herb cycle here soon, just another kid looking for some reassurance and coddling.

Also, took .625mg Royal Jelly for two days in a row. Experienced overwhelming anxiety/emotional breakdowns after 2nd day. Felt similar to attacks during onset of fin sides.

Before some of you here who are taking Royal Jelly become concerned, know that I have been extremely stressed from my recent breakup. This is 95% the contributing factor to what has been going on and is definitely exacerbating my downswing. I’m doing my best to manage it, but breakups are mindfucks.

Either way, I researched Royal Jelly & and how it influences androgens. All I quickly gathered was that it’s mentioned in congruence with DHEA and estrogen metabolism/chelation in the liver. Considering the high aromatization activity of PFS guys, the DHEA to E1 pathway, and the fact that my liver seems to have shit the bed lately, just curious if you guys would give any credence to the fact that my panic attack/breakdown could have been greatly influenced by royal jelly (physiologically) by jacking up my E some how. Probably not.

I’ve back burner’d it since and will try incorporating it back once I feel like I’ll be able to differentiate its effects from everything else going on.

Feeling positive, all the best.

I ordered about 21 different herbs, I cycle 17 I think. Royal Jelly was one of the 3 or 4 that I have binned currently. They aren't all going to agree with you. Basically, for now I have it binned until later on I may decide to give it another go when my body can tolerate it better.

[JoeP26]

It's normal. Nerve issues. It'll pass along with everything else. I had this myself. Some times it would feel like I was wearing a mask.

Can confirm. The first 6 months caused a lot of face tingling and numbness. And often not just in the face. Feet, legs, hands, arms, penis, etc. but has since subsided.

[Hulk Smash]

Guys,

This question has undoubtedly been answered, and I’ve looked for the answer for the past 30 mins, truly.

I just pulled trigger on herbs and am awaiting delivery.

My question: has anyone discontinued herbs for a prolonged period of time w/o any detriment? I don’t doubt the “once you understand the benefits, you’ll never go back” logic. I follow this principle in exercise, diet, etc. and will in certain disciplines until the day I die. BUT, I don’t want to live a life propped up by pine trees and fulvic acid. I made that fucking mistake already when I fucktardedly concluded, “fin for life isn’t such a bad trade-off for my hair”. Point being, I’m seeking a full recovery, to which I will continue to optimize regardless afterwords. But by my definition, optimization/recovery means no regression after dropping supps though. I read all the stickies, so please don’t refer me to the definition of recovery. Just looking for some anecdotes here. Regardless, starting herb cycle here soon, just another kid looking for some reassurance and coddling.

Also, took .625mg Royal Jelly for two days in a row. Experienced overwhelming anxiety/emotional breakdowns after 2nd day. Felt similar to attacks during onset of fin sides.

Before some of you here who are taking Royal Jelly become concerned, know that I have been extremely stressed from my recent breakup. This is 95% the contributing factor to what has been going on and is definitely exacerbating my downswing. I’m doing my best to manage it, but breakups are mindfucks.

Either way, I researched Royal Jelly & and how it influences androgens. All I quickly gathered was that it’s mentioned in congruence with DHEA and estrogen metabolism/chelation in the liver. Considering the high aromatization activity of PFS guys, the DHEA to E1 pathway, and the fact that my liver seems to have shit the bed lately, just curious if you guys would give any credence to the fact that my panic attack/breakdown could have been greatly influenced by royal jelly (physiologically) by jacking up my E some how. Probably not.

I’ve back burner’d it since and will try incorporating it back once I feel like I’ll be able to differentiate its effects from everything else going on.

Feeling positive, all the best.

Maxout answered your question about how long the herbs must be taken for.

Further perspective is that whether or not it were a prop, there isn't much choice anyway.
Also consider that everyone's recovery journey is ultimately the unique path said man will carve out for himself. In other words, every mans discipline level is different and that level of discipline is what makes the difference not only in recovery but also life in general.

Do not base your path on the results of others. Remember that your mind, body and soul are unique. Yes you crashed like every man who took fin has BUT what each man rebuilds himself to is in no way equal.

[xxaleksi]

Maxout answered your question about how long the herbs must be taken for.

Further perspective is that whether or not it were a prop, there isn't much choice anyway.
Also consider that everyone's recovery journey is ultimately the unique path said man will carve out for himself. In other words, every mans discipline level is different and that level of discipline is what makes the difference not only in recovery but also life in general.

Do not base your path on the results of others. Remember that your mind, body and soul are unique. Yes you crashed like every man who took fin has BUT what each man rebuilds himself to is in no way equal.

No way every man who takes fin crashes. IIRC there have been over a million prescriptions for fin in the US alone just last year. If a large portion of those guys crashed then PFS would be more known. Propeciahelp has like 5,000 members total in the last decade. This condition is probably extremely rare. Certainly doesn't feel that way when it happens to you, though.

I actually have a friend who takes Dut for his hair loss and has no side effects whatsoever. Libido fine, mentally fine, literally feels like taking a vitamin to him. Meanwhile I got fucked over by a few pills of fin and a year later I'm still not completely normal lol. He used fin before too and when I explained to him what happened to me he couldn't understand it since to him it's just another pill that just helps his hair.

I'm extremely thankful to CD and everyone else here on this forum for helping guys like me to get through this. Although I'm not recovered yet I have a new appreciation for life and don't take my health for granted anymore. Imagine if the protocol didn't exist and all we had was PH when we crashed? I can't even imagine.

[Cdsnuts]

No way every man who takes fin crashes. IIRC there have been over a million prescriptions for fin in the US alone just last year. If a large portion of those guys crashed then PFS would be more known. Propeciahelp has like 5,000 members total in the last decade. This condition is probably extremely rare. Certainly doesn't feel that way when it happens to you, though.

I actually have a friend who takes Dut for his hair loss and has no side effects whatsoever. Libido fine, mentally fine, literally feels like taking a vitamin to him. Meanwhile I got fucked over by a few pills of fin and a year later I'm still not completely normal lol. He used fin before too and when I explained to him what happened to me he couldn't understand it since to him it's just another pill that just helps his hair.

I'm extremely thankful to CD and everyone else here on this forum for helping guys like me to get through this. Although I'm not recovered yet I have a new appreciation for life and don't take my health for granted anymore. Imagine if the protocol didn't exist and all we had was PH when we crashed? I can't even imagine.

It was brutal. No hope, no other avenues of escape. Things were very dark. Gratitude has a way of bringing more good things into your life, which is why I always tell the new guys to be thankful they have this option. That being said I have to stop getting attached to the outcome of these guys here because when they stray, and don't do the right things, it really hits a nerve in me for some reason. I know it shouldn't, but it does.

There was a guy who started out here after crashing and I know he is now going the TRT route after me talking to him until I was blue in the face. Like, what's the point of all that time and effort? Nothing. TRT is not the answer to this, we know it, everyone else knows it, but he thinks he's going to be different for some reason.

I'm glad your thankful. I'm thankful to the guys that stick to the program and recover. You'll be one of them if you continue on the correct path.

[Ratchet]

It was brutal. No hope, no other avenues of escape. Things were very dark. Gratitude has a way of bringing more good things into your life, which is why I always tell the new guys to be thankful they have this option. That being said I have to stop getting attached to the outcome of these guys here because when they stray, and don't do the right things, it really hits a nerve in me for some reason. I know it shouldn't, but it does.

There was a guy who started out here after crashing and I know he is now going the TRT route after me talking to him until I was blue in the face. Like, what's the point of all that time and effort? Nothing. TRT is not the answer to this, we know it, everyone else knows it, but he thinks he's going to be different for some reason.

I'm glad your thankful. I'm thankful to the guys that stick to the program and recover. You'll be one of them if you continue on the correct path.

Herbs arrived last night.

In rotation, I have MACA, Ash, Tongkat, He Shou Wu, Shilijat (I hate the smell of this shit), schisandra, black ant, and cistanche. I also have access to rhoidiola, Eleuthero, and cordyceps tinctures at a high quality market where I live, so I’ll probably throw those in while I try and accumulate more. Pine pollen daily. These all seem to be the more androgenic herbs, so does anybody see any imbalance with my cycle? More is better, but is this a good start? Also, I’m a major proponent of nutrient timing (and so are all of you backloaders) any advice in terms of when to take these herbs?

Also, @CD, I noticed your connections to Panama in various threads. I’m going on a fishing trip there next month, I can say hey to your fruit homies for you.

Going to take a break from forum after today. All the best

[Bankai9000]

General advice seems to be to take herbs on an empty stomach with some water. I do it like half hour before eating since I don't eat for the first 2-6h in the morning.
I like your attitude with not wanting to do this forever. That's why I never even considered hormones or anything drastic, the simple question "do i wanna do this forever?" would probably prevent a lot of people of doing that in the first place. Since once you start hormones or benzos and get a benefit from it, well then you're screwed. You can't heal cause you take toxic shit that imbalances you and bam you're stuck in an endless cycle.
But same time I decided to do a lot of the health stuff forever, like Ice baths, Sauna, HIIT, Stretches, Healthy diet and habits etc., not always fun but now it's always there^^ And once you bought the herbs and they arrive you will notice they literally last forever XD. I rotated like xxaleksi every herb aswell so there just seems no end to it. Especially if you take a break here and there.


To the statement every man crashes on fin, just lol dude. Almost nobody crashes on Fin, it's similar to people dying on a dose of viagra or people bleeding out from an aspirin pill.

[Turnover25]

It was brutal. No hope, no other avenues of escape. Things were very dark. Gratitude has a way of bringing more good things into your life, which is why I always tell the new guys to be thankful they have this option. That being said I have to stop getting attached to the outcome of these guys here because when they stray, and don't do the right things, it really hits a nerve in me for some reason. I know it shouldn't, but it does.

There was a guy who started out here after crashing and I know he is now going the TRT route after me talking to him until I was blue in the face. Like, what's the point of all that time and effort? Nothing. TRT is not the answer to this, we know it, everyone else knows it, but he thinks he's going to be different for some reason.

I'm glad your thankful. I'm thankful to the guys that stick to the program and recover. You'll be one of them if you continue on the correct path.


When you say stray, you mean drastic changes right? For example, I binned chlorella and spirulina because after multiple attempts, they just do me more harm than good. So I supplement magnesium, Vit D3 and Vit B complex and get nutrients from food. So I’m following the protocol to the best my body will allow, would you consider that straying?

Also, any tips or advice for vitamin supplementation for those who can’t take chlorella/spirulina?

[Cdsnuts]

When you say stray, you mean drastic changes right? For example, I binned chlorella and spirulina because after multiple attempts, they just do me more harm than good. So I supplement magnesium, Vit D3 and Vit B complex and get nutrients from food. So I’m following the protocol to the best my body will allow, would you consider that straying?

Also, any tips or advice for vitamin supplementation for those who can’t take chlorella/spirulina?

No, I mean straying in regards to doing only half or less of the protocol and/or jumping through different protocols too quickly and not giving themselves the proper time under the right conditions.

What you did was not straying, rather taking out something that doesn't work for you. These two things aren't going to make or break your recovery.

[Hulk Smash]

@xxalexi @bankai

Are the two of you seriously repeating the very statement that probably help land you here?

Not only is it unscientific but it's also almost malicious. I bet neither one of you could give a scientific reasoning as to why you state "almost no one crashes". Other than perhaps the drug trials and claims made by the very drug manufacturer.

Many pharma inhibitors are known to crash people, such as PPI'S.
It's a pattern in the industry.

No one is superman, we all respond the same way to everything at varying degrees.

(Except in the case of allergic reactions which are most likely caused by pharma or natural trauma to the immune system. But the pathology or trigger of the birth of an allergy seems to be similar if not the same for everyone.)

An example of a response at varying degrees per individual would be anesthesia. The response depends on weight and other factors but Ultimately everyone succumbs to the anesthesia.
There are many other examples.

We are all subject for better or worse to the laws of nature hence why you can't not recover by following the protocol.

I humbley warn you against repeating the lie of "barely anyone crashes".
You could be pushing someone into the pit you fell in.

There are people who search forums to decide if they should try fin,dut,sp. They want to know if the odds are in their favor and clearly they're not since the two of you who crashed probably believed the lie too.

Xxalexi, you should be encouraging your friend to get on some protocol as a preventive measure.

I hope he doesn't crash but using the word hope makes it clear your friend is playing with fire and you know what they say about fire...

[Samsemilia]

Wise words brother well done!

Its sad reading such things here.
The numbers are fake. Its like playing russian roulette with your health.

[Ratchet]

Quick check in with everyone.

I hope you’re all having as good a week/end as I am.

I started the herbs last Tuesday. 1/2 tbsp pine pollen powder in morning and late afternoon everyday. Does anybody cycle this? I took cistanche, he Shou Wu, shilajit, Maca, and then Tongkat Ali today.

First day sucked. Next day felt great. Third day sucked again. & then I’ve felt like my former self 100% these past few days. Popping stiffies left and right, had sex multiple times in one day, brain ball connection restored, and generally just better in every which way, especially when it comes to the mental sides. The wit and fluency of thought is all back.

Noted: herbs seem to have better effect post-workout, especially pine pollen.

Amazing upswing, don’t even want to give credence to a proceeding downswing, but I’m prepared for one. No plans to stray off protocol for a good while, either. Just wanted to add another anecdote by somebody who has not only seen the light, but felt it, for all you boys who haven’t felt like yourself in a long time. Keep going.

All the best.

[xxaleksi]

@xxalexi @bankai

Are the two of you seriously repeating the very statement that probably help land you here?

Not only is it unscientific but it's also almost malicious. I bet neither one of you could give a scientific reasoning as to why you state "almost no one crashes". Other than perhaps the drug trials and claims made by the very drug manufacturer.

Many pharma inhibitors are known to crash people, such as PPI'S.
It's a pattern in the industry.

No one is superman, we all respond the same way to everything at varying degrees.

(Except in the case of allergic reactions which are most likely caused by pharma or natural trauma to the immune system. But the pathology or trigger of the birth of an allergy seems to be similar if not the same for everyone.)

An example of a response at varying degrees per individual would be anesthesia. The response depends on weight and other factors but Ultimately everyone succumbs to the anesthesia.
There are many other examples.

We are all subject for better or worse to the laws of nature hence why you can't not recover by following the protocol.

I humbley warn you against repeating the lie of "barely anyone crashes".
You could be pushing someone into the pit you fell in.

There are people who search forums to decide if they should try fin,dut,sp. They want to know if the odds are in their favor and clearly they're not since the two of you who crashed probably believed the lie too.

Xxalexi, you should be encouraging your friend to get on some protocol as a preventive measure.

I hope he doesn't crash but using the word hope makes it clear your friend is playing with fire and you know what they say about fire...

Wasn't trying to belittle the condition by any means. PFS is absolutely devastating, as everyone here knows. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't have been posting here for the past eleven months.

I meant that if every man who took fin crashed, PFS would be much more known and the drug most likely would've been pulled off the market. Millions of people have taken fin since it was FDA approved. Yet there (probably) aren't millions of people with PFS. Of course, this is just my opinion. I can't know for sure.

Also, Maxout said in an old post that his father has taken Saw Palmetto for years with no issues whatsoever. Yet he got in trouble after taking it for a bit over a month. There has to be some kind of predisposition in us that makes us sensitive to Fin/SP/RU, along with SSRIs and Accutane. Obviously, until the predisposition is known these drugs should never be sold, but I don't see them being removed from the market until science figures out why PFS occurs. Until then, it's russian roulette with your health like Samsemilia said.

[Ratchet]

Quick check in: still feeling pretty fookin good. Good enough to take on this MF covid19. Ain’t shit.

(For journaling purposes)

Notable improvements:

Episodes of jaundice are becoming much less frequent and intense (only had 2-3 these past few weeks).

Thermogenesis is definitely back online, in a healthy way. Blood flow/pressure is good, and I definitely don’t feel or look as anemic as I was prior. There were a few nights after some He Shou Wu (favorite herb so far) & Tongkat where I was steaming hot though.

Able to achieve 6-7 hrs of uninterrupted sleep fairly consistently, long as I remain regimented about zero screen time, keeping room dark/cold, not jacking up glucose levels, etc.

Brain fog/memory/concentration issues have significantly faded. Interacting w/ others has become enjoyable again and the wit/fluency of thought that really characterized me prior to PFS has been making a serious comeback. Stress and anxiety is definitely under much more control & I feel more grounded in my sense of self.

Notable regressions:

Libido has dwindled i.e lost the brain-ball connection I regained a few days after starting the herbs. Its non-existent right now, and libido is very low or gone as well. Nocturnals may have been taking a hit as well, as my piece hasn’t been hanging all that great. I still don’t really wake up with morning woods, but when I wake up in the middle of the night I typically have some true kickstands.

Also had an episode of extremely sore nuts, almost identical to the first symptoms I experienced while on fin. It subsided a little bit after sex in the same way. I can’t say I’m not slightly concerned, as this is also a hallmark symptom for some who were about to hit a downswing/crash. Either way, doesn’t matter as it’s par for the course and I’m strapped w/ the protocol.

In fact, overall & in general, I’m not concerned about PFS right now and am genuinely happy and proud with my progress so far.

A few questions:

I just re-upped on my pine pollen. I am blowing through it fairly quickly at a tbsp/day. Do you guys think I’m good to start dialing it back a bit, and if so, what size dose would you suggest that I try dialing it back to for starters?

Bone broth. I really want to make this a daily thing. The bennies are too great. Only issue is that I’ve had a negative experience the past few times I consumed Kettle & Fires Beef broth. I didn’t write down or catalogue exactly how I felt, but I remember that it was distinct, it sucked, and it was more than likely attributable to the broth. I remember experiencing some similar things when I threw some scoops of Vital Proteins collagen in my smoothies. I know my guy @bankai knows what I’m talking about. Either way, I want to figure out how to make it work and if anyone has had similar experiences or suggestions I’d like to hear them. Secret recipes also seriously appreciated.

Fat consumption. I calculated out my fat consumption on the back of a napkin, and I’m clearing 100g in just daily ingredients that I cook with or put in smoothies I.e olive oil, ghee, coconut milk, hemp hearts, flax, etc.. ~ half of that is saturated. This does not take into consideration the meats that I eat, including fish almost daily & steak frequently, or the copious amounts of fucking sunflower seeds/butter, walnuts, and coconut shavings I’ll scarf down in a day. Point being, I’m going to try my best to just cut out my precious nuts and maybe diversify with a few avocados here and there. I’m actually making good gains in the gym and currently look like Poseidon, so I don’t want to tweak my macro split too much, but I know I’m taking in more fat than what’s necessary. I’m thinking out loud rn, but do any of you guys keep track of your macros, and if so, what’re your splits? Damn looked like he had it dialed, considering his before and after pics.

Where my boys Turnover, dogglaw, covfefe, bowsa @? Hope you all are doing well & if not, sending you my best. We seem to be at similar points in our lives/journeys, so i like hearing good tings from you guys.

That’s it for now. Looking forward to hearing back from you all.

Best,

Ratchet

[Bankai9000]

Bru ! 7hours sleeptime is great man, if ya can hit that consistently is nice af for your body^^ So long ya get any kinds of night errections that's great aswell, it means yo dick is healthy/healing.

And I know I'm repetetive but especially for ya fasting more would be goood, jaundice is a huge indicator for your liver not cleaning right man, if that shows to the outside it means your liver probably has definitely issues with the regulation of hormones aswell, not only sex hormones but this affects EVERYTHING. . And as we all know now we need those to be on point haha

Wouldn't worry too much about brain-dikk, I'd guess if yo body calms/heals this comes back online randomly

Personally not using pine pollen daily, more like 2x a week, sometimes more when I "feel" like it. And with the collagen it seems that some ppl have these brain/mental issues with the high glycine content(maybe something else), I'd be very careful with that one. Just skip that completely if you really feel ANY adverse reaction, wouldn't risk it there. Just use it once or twice a week, no need to get that in daily. You still eat other foods ;p most people never get any broth in at all xD
I got some high quality 5Types Collagen powder and that shit smells like a chemical bomb. So I use it maybe once a week. And make real bone broth 2x a month to eat for like 6days lets say.

With the diet/macros I don't care at all about anything anymore. I try to fast for a minimum of 12h a day and this varies between 12-20h(14h average). My only goal is to get daily some fat, some carbs and some protein, from real whole foods. Trying not to eat first 2-3h after waking up and also not eating at least 2h pre bed. Hemp/flax/pumpkin/chia etc are really good foods, people underestimate the small stuff, like good salt, grass fed butter, olive oil and not eating processed gives a LOT of health. I use daily frozen berries and some greens in a shake with whey, tastes like fkin heaven man. I really started to enjoy this healthy eating, eventho I'm overeating XD

Keep it up mate :D

edit: and it's funny how fast you forget how bad things were, I've absolute 0 pain in ma nuts or penile pain at all anymore. Was pretty much a 24/7 thing for over half a year I'd guess now . Didn't even notice xD

[Ratchet]

Hi all,

Quick check in.

Overall, I’m still doing well. I hope all you boys are staying healthy and finding ways to maintain protocol during this pandemic.

Two major things that I’ve really been struggling with for the past three weeks though are no libido and complete emotional flatness/blunting/whatever you want to call it. I feel completely robotic and like I have no guiding intuition, feelings, or emotions. I describe it as disassociation but my therapist tells me that that’s incorrect. This is hard on a 24 year old trying to find their way in the world. It’s even harder when my compass and self validation is tied to my libido, of which I have none. Fin absolutely shattered my worldview and sense of self and these episodes of disassociation and feeling like I have no grounding in who I am or what I want keep occurring. They are to the point that I actually researched and considered prodromal schizo, but again, my therapist reassured me that’s not what it is. I’m with them on this one too, since I’m a neurotic basket case at the end of the day. The only upside is that i don’t seem to feel anxiety until I go like four iterations deep into a thought and really spin myself out, at which point I just come out of my head that much more disoriented and flat.

Any vets here who also experienced things like this? I could really use some reassurance. I know Damn said that he would vacillate between extreme anxiety and the inability to give a shit about anything, which seems to be similar to my situation. But i feel like I’m experiencing full blow fucking ego death at some points, and my personality now is just me trying to act as the person that I think I was before I all of this.

Is this par for the course? This has been the hardest part of my journey so far I think. I feel close to breaking through though, and I would really appreciate any suggestions or recommendations.

I’m on protocol 100% since Jan 1, was on protocol 70% since off Fin on 10/11/2019.

1 tbsp pp daily
Rotation herb (Cistanche, he shou wu, Shilajit, black ant, schisandra, maca, Tongkat Ali, cordyceps).
~700mgs mag at night (500 mg natural calm, 200 mg doctors best glycinate)

All the best & thank you!

Ratchet

- - - Updated - - -


Bru ! 7hours sleeptime is great man, if ya can hit that consistently is nice af for your body^^ So long ya get any kinds of night errections that's great aswell, it means yo dick is healthy/healing.

And I know I'm repetetive but especially for ya fasting more would be goood, jaundice is a huge indicator for your liver not cleaning right man, if that shows to the outside it means your liver probably has definitely issues with the regulation of hormones aswell, not only sex hormones but this affects EVERYTHING. . And as we all know now we need those to be on point haha

Wouldn't worry too much about brain-dikk, I'd guess if yo body calms/heals this comes back online randomly

Personally not using pine pollen daily, more like 2x a week, sometimes more when I "feel" like it. And with the collagen it seems that some ppl have these brain/mental issues with the high glycine content(maybe something else), I'd be very careful with that one. Just skip that completely if you really feel ANY adverse reaction, wouldn't risk it there. Just use it once or twice a week, no need to get that in daily. You still eat other foods ;p most people never get any broth in at all xD
I got some high quality 5Types Collagen powder and that shit smells like a chemical bomb. So I use it maybe once a week. And make real bone broth 2x a month to eat for like 6days lets say.

With the diet/macros I don't care at all about anything anymore. I try to fast for a minimum of 12h a day and this varies between 12-20h(14h average). My only goal is to get daily some fat, some carbs and some protein, from real whole foods. Trying not to eat first 2-3h after waking up and also not eating at least 2h pre bed. Hemp/flax/pumpkin/chia etc are really good foods, people underestimate the small stuff, like good salt, grass fed butter, olive oil and not eating processed gives a LOT of health. I use daily frozen berries and some greens in a shake with whey, tastes like fkin heaven man. I really started to enjoy this healthy eating, eventho I'm overeating XD

Keep it up mate :D

edit: and it's funny how fast you forget how bad things were, I've absolute 0 pain in ma nuts or penile pain at all anymore. Was pretty much a 24/7 thing for over half a year I'd guess now . Didn't even notice xD

Also, thanks for all of your input!

[Ratchet]

Anyone have any experience with this?

https://seed.com/male-daily-synbiotic/

[Ratchet]

Happy Easter you filthy animals.

The time may have arrived. I’m seriously considering a run with Androhard in the next couple months, something I would have never considered six months ago. Directionally, I have improved significantly since quitting fin exactly 6 months ago & on protocol, but I’m at a point where I think a run could really shift me into next gear.

The worst sides that I still experience & would like to ideally tackle are:

No libido whatsoever/No spontaneous erections
Anhedonia/ emotional blunting
Episodes of disassociation/derealization

I identify with Alchemy in regards to the above, so I’d love some input if you read this.

Also, my cock is still hourglassed sometimes, and my erection size has definitely taken a hit (I think it’s atrophy from lack of blood flow and consistent erections) so a bathmate might also be on the table. I’m also only 24, so if you guys suggest that I give it more time, I definitely will.

I haven’t faltered from the protocol since I started it (except for some cheat meals, which for me consists of coco bliss ice cream or a bag of siete grain free chips) and I’ve been on herbs for about 3-4 months now. I’d have to go look at older posts to confirm, but I think I’m primed for a run.

My first question is:

Fast one more time? I have been making gains in the gym and put on 2-3 more lbs than when I started my initial fast. I’m also much leaner than I was and my body composition has definitely changed. I attribute this to a newer macro split that is way higher in fats. I would like to fast, since I come out feeling really good & more motivated to manage my diet and training, plus all of the amazing benefits you get from fasting in general. If I did fast, would I need to cycle herbs for another 2-3 months before a run, or could I jump right into it?

My upswings and downswings have been more intense lately. While I feel amazing on upswings, minus the issues I laid out above, my downswings are also becoming more intense, especially when it comes to the disassociation and emotional blunting. Can anyone here speak to what I can at least expect from the Andro? I know everyone is different, but my downswings are pretty gnarly now. Will it target these things? Because otherwise, I’m continuing to make strides just keeping it totally natural.

On a lighter note, my sides that have significantly improved and continue to do so include:

Sleep - I can achieve 6.5-7.5 hours uninterrupted @ which point I’m able to fall right back asleep again.

Brain fog - I still have minor bouts here and there, but interacting with others is fluid again and the head pressure/‘thinking through a blanket feeling’ is short lived.

Nocturnal erections - every night. No morning wood still though, and erections could be harder. I can definitely feel a difference in girth, which is what I seem to have lost some of. Slight length as well, about 1/4”. But I’m confident these are recoverable.

Mild jaundice in hands - occurs very rarely, usually only during a downswing.

And all in all, just feeling generally better. Life feels livable again, and I’m starting to feel more excited than fearful at what the future holds.

All the best boys!

Ratchet

[DefRecover]

Hey man

Congrats on the progress! Sounds like you are doing really well.

Also sounds like we are at relatively similar points. My main remaining sides are no libido, no spontaneous erections, sleep issues (and for me gut issues). I also get nocturnal erections, but tough to get one naturally during the day.

The upswings and downswings don’t seem to be as pronounced for me. But i think they are definitely there. For me seem to be a week or two slightly up and a week or two slightly down. But overall I think a fair bit better than baseline.

I can only speak for myself, but I am going to stick with the herbs for another 6 months. Perhaps I am a bit of a puss, but the prohormones scare me a bit. In addition to throwing my hormones out, am worried about losing more hair from up top and then growing more on the body (hairy enough thanks!). Are you noticing anything overt from the herbs? I haven’t yet, but the vets here seem to say that you notice more the better you get. I was planning to continue until I start noticing the effects before the next step...

Just my 0.02!

Def

[Ratchet]

Hey man

Congrats on the progress! Sounds like you are doing really well.

Also sounds like we are at relatively similar points. My main remaining sides are no libido, no spontaneous erections, sleep issues (and for me gut issues). I also get nocturnal erections, but tough to get one naturally during the day.

The upswings and downswings don’t seem to be as pronounced for me. But i think they are definitely there. For me seem to be a week or two slightly up and a week or two slightly down. But overall I think a fair bit better than baseline.

I can only speak for myself, but I am going to stick with the herbs for another 6 months. Perhaps I am a bit of a puss, but the prohormones scare me a bit. In addition to throwing my hormones out, am worried about losing more hair from up top and then growing more on the body (hairy enough thanks!). Are you noticing anything overt from the herbs? I haven’t yet, but the vets here seem to say that you notice more the better you get. I was planning to continue until I start noticing the effects before the next step...

Just my 0.02!

Def

Hey Def, I appreciate the response man. Since posting, I have decided to hold out on the prohormones & continue with the rest of the protocol for a bit. I’ve only been on it for around 4 months, which in retrospect isn’t that long & also reassuring considering the progress that I’ve made.

In regards to herbs, I have definitely felt like they are able to lift me out of the worse parts of PFS and provide some relief, but they haven’t started to work in the other direction for me yet. The only noticeable exception to this was my first week on pine pollen where my libido, energy, and mental clarity all turned back on at once. I remember dosing a tbsp & feeling pronounced effects within 45 mins. Also, i do continue to have great days with He Shou Wu. Not sure if it’s coincidence or synchronicity, but if you don’t have it in rotation I would definitely add it. Best of luck to you & I look forward to seeing your progress!

On another note, I decided to do another 5+ day water fast. I’m halfway through day 2 as I type this & dont have anything notable to report. I will continue to post updates.

All the best.

Ratchet

[Turnover25]

Hey man, just wondering, what does your diet consist of?

[Bankai9000]

Hey Def, I appreciate the response man. Since posting, I have decided to hold out on the prohormones & continue with the rest of the protocol for a bit. I’ve only been on it for around 4 months, which in retrospect isn’t that long & also reassuring considering the progress that I’ve made.

In regards to herbs, I have definitely felt like they are able to lift me out of the worse parts of PFS and provide some relief, but they haven’t started to work in the other direction for me yet. The only noticeable exception to this was my first week on pine pollen where my libido, energy, and mental clarity all turned back on at once. I remember dosing a tbsp & feeling pronounced effects within 45 mins. Also, i do continue to have great days with He Shou Wu. Not sure if it’s coincidence or synchronicity, but if you don’t have it in rotation I would definitely add it. Best of luck to you & I look forward to seeing your progress!

On another note, I decided to do another 5+ day water fast. I’m halfway through day 2 as I type this & dont have anything notable to report. I will continue to post updates.

All the best.

Ratchet

The thing with waterfasts, so long you take care to refeed on whole foods avoiding processed ones for at least the 1st week. Benefits for the body(not only pfs) seem to come up for 6months from just one 5-7+day waterfast.
If you handle minimum 5 FULL days (120h+) I'm really interested in how you will feel in 2-3months time. Keep it up mate

[Ratchet]

Hey man, just wondering, what does your diet consist of?

It consists of organic, whole foods. No gluten. No grains. No legumes. No dairy. I also don’t do egg whites, tomatoes, cacao, mushrooms, or pork (for whatever reason, these are the foods that I irrationally stay away from & theyre just not even worth trying to incorporate rn). The only processed foods that I’ve eaten that I can think of are dried fruits (goji berries, dates, mangos), a shitload of sunflower seed butter, a shitload of coconut shavings, coconut milk w/o emulsifiers, some siete grain free chips occasionally, and like two pints of coconut bliss Madagascar vanilla (I eat a lot of coconut, probably not good for me). I make my own almond milk too, just straight almonds, that I use in like a sunflower seed/Goji berry cereal or my smoothies.

My breakfast typically consists of a meat (usually leftovers) heated in ghee and cooked with like half an onion and a lot of garlic. I eat half an onion and probably 6-7 cloves of minced garlic a day. Don’t ask me why, I just like it that way. Good for sulfur intake or something. I’ll also usually eat whatever leftover veggies I have from the night before. On top of that, I’ll have two large forkfuls of sauerkraut/kimchi. 2x a week I eat chicken liver. I also eat 3-4 egg yolks 2-3x a week.

I usually eat an apple (honeycrisp only, on god) and a raw carrot for a snack after breakfast and before lunch.

For lunch, it’s a salad. I rotate types of greens/salad mixes weekly for variation. I typically add 2 Brazil nuts and a can of sardines to it, followed by some peppers/olives/other vegetables that make sense. Sometimes walnuts &or sunflower seeds. Olive oil. Salt & pepper.

Dinner is some sort of variation of meats and vegetables, with a sweet potato or a squash added in for backloading.

I also have a green shake, sometimes in the morning and sometimes at night. These things are massive and should probably be considered a meal in and of themselves. my base always includes a handful of spinach, celery/cucumber or fennel/zucchini, 3tbsp of hemp hearts or 2tbsp of flax, a thumb sized piece of turmeric & ginger, 2 scoops of vital proteins collagen, cinnamon, coconut milk. From there, I add in different fruits, (blueberries&beets, kiwis/avocados/pineapple, etc etc. I do go light on fruit though, as fructose is really bad for you, especially in highly absorbable, blended form). I also add in more vegetables like broccoli, kale, red cabbage, etc. I have a few recipes that I’ve dialed, but I continue to experiment. Other than that, I steam all of the veggies every other day before I blend them to reduce oxalates & things like that.

This is probably more than you asked for, and I’m sorry to not synthesize it more cohesively for you. I’m probably forgetting some things too. Thanks for the question, let me know if you have any more man! (Or any suggestions, too)

[Ratchet]

The thing with waterfasts, so long you take care to refeed on whole foods avoiding processed ones for at least the 1st week. Benefits for the body(not only pfs) seem to come up for 6months from just one 5-7+day waterfast.
If you handle minimum 5 FULL days (120h+) I'm really interested in how you will feel in 2-3months time. Keep it up mate

I wish I had known this before I started this fast. I water fasted for 5 full days in January, and refed really well (see diet answer above for general idea). I didn’t touch fruit, nuts, or any sugar for 3+ weeks after either. I plan on doing the same with this fast, hopefully it will tack on some more glorious benefits and finally sort my liver out. I will keep you updated!

[Turnover25]

It consists of organic, whole foods. No gluten. No grains. No legumes. No dairy. I also don’t do egg whites, tomatoes, cacao, mushrooms, or pork (for whatever reason, these are the foods that I irrationally stay away from & theyre just not even worth trying to incorporate rn). The only processed foods that I’ve eaten that I can think of are dried fruits (goji berries, dates, mangos), a shitload of sunflower seed butter, a shitload of coconut shavings, coconut milk w/o emulsifiers, some siete grain free chips occasionally, and like two pints of coconut bliss Madagascar vanilla (I eat a lot of coconut, probably not good for me). I make my own almond milk too, just straight almonds, that I use in like a sunflower seed/Goji berry cereal or my smoothies.

My breakfast typically consists of a meat (usually leftovers) heated in ghee and cooked with like half an onion and a lot of garlic. I eat half an onion and probably 6-7 cloves of minced garlic a day. Don’t ask me why, I just like it that way. Good for sulfur intake or something. I’ll also usually eat whatever leftover veggies I have from the night before. On top of that, I’ll have two large forkfuls of sauerkraut/kimchi. 2x a week I eat chicken liver. I also eat 3-4 egg yolks 2-3x a week.

I usually eat an apple (honeycrisp only, on god) and a raw carrot for a snack after breakfast and before lunch.

For lunch, it’s a salad. I rotate types of greens/salad mixes weekly for variation. I typically add 2 Brazil nuts and a can of sardines to it, followed by some peppers/olives/other vegetables that make sense. Sometimes walnuts &or sunflower seeds. Olive oil. Salt & pepper.

Dinner is some sort of variation of meats and vegetables, with a sweet potato or a squash added in for backloading.

I also have a green shake, sometimes in the morning and sometimes at night. These things are massive and should probably be considered a meal in and of themselves. my base always includes a handful of spinach, celery/cucumber or fennel/zucchini, 3tbsp of hemp hearts or 2tbsp of flax, a thumb sized piece of turmeric & ginger, 2 scoops of vital proteins collagen, cinnamon, coconut milk. From there, I add in different fruits, (blueberries&beets, kiwis/avocados/pineapple, etc etc. I do go light on fruit though, as fructose is really bad for you, especially in highly absorbable, blended form). I also add in more vegetables like broccoli, kale, red cabbage, etc. I have a few recipes that I’ve dialed, but I continue to experiment. Other than that, I steam all of the veggies every other day before I blend them to reduce oxalates & things like that.

This is probably more than you asked for, and I’m sorry to not synthesize it more cohesively for you. I’m probably forgetting some things too. Thanks for the question, let me know if you have any more man! (Or any suggestions, too)


Interesting, I've noticed there are plenty of different variations of diets people use so I was curious. But thanks for the detail! Haha. Your experience is very similar to mine so I was curious as to what kinda stuff you ate. Recently I decided to implement dairy back into my diet (lactose free) for the first time in years, shortly after I experienced about a 3 hour window where my brain fog lifted completely for the first time since last summer, it's since gone but it was very noticeable. My mind was like a flowing river where all my thoughts and ability to think was flowing, forgot what it felt like. Also, libido came back full force and is better than before. Bloating also improved dramatically. I've come to the conclusion that B vitamins are crucial, and they can be difficult to get, I know for a fact I wasn't getting enough B12 before I added dairy and tunafish. But since then I've stopped being so limited on my diet, as long as its "healthy" and paleo I'll eat it. Lately my brain fog is still there and I'm still living in somewhat of a dementia type state, but I've noticed that I have way more of my memories at my disposal. They seem to pop up randomly here and there and I kinda remember who I am and who I "was" before this more clearly. That's sadly how bad my brain fog is/was. But anyways, just my 2 cents that it's important to give your body what it needs, I personally think my diet was too limited because I only ate fruits, veggies and meat. That takes a ton of different nutrients out of the equation, and I was doing that for "Gut health" but my late experience has me believing that my body is craving nutrients and my gut isn't so much of an issue.

I was also curious because some of the things you list such as yellowish/jaundice hands, feeling cold or anemic, and maybe some other stuff I can't remember can possibly be attributed to low Vitamin B9 or B12. I experienced all of those first hand with low B vitamins, even before I took fin.

[Ratchet]

Interesting, I've noticed there are plenty of different variations of diets people use so I was curious. But thanks for the detail! Haha. Your experience is very similar to mine so I was curious as to what kinda stuff you ate. Recently I decided to implement dairy back into my diet (lactose free) for the first time in years, shortly after I experienced about a 3 hour window where my brain fog lifted completely for the first time since last summer, it's since gone but it was very noticeable. My mind was like a flowing river where all my thoughts and ability to think was flowing, forgot what it felt like. Also, libido came back full force and is better than before. Bloating also improved dramatically. I've come to the conclusion that B vitamins are crucial, and they can be difficult to get, I know for a fact I wasn't getting enough B12 before I added dairy and tunafish. But since then I've stopped being so limited on my diet, as long as its "healthy" and paleo I'll eat it. Lately my brain fog is still there and I'm still living in somewhat of a dementia type state, but I've noticed that I have way more of my memories at my disposal. They seem to pop up randomly here and there and I kinda remember who I am and who I "was" before this more clearly. That's sadly how bad my brain fog is/was. But anyways, just my 2 cents that it's important to give your body what it needs, I personally think my diet was too limited because I only ate fruits, veggies and meat. That takes a ton of different nutrients out of the equation, and I was doing that for "Gut health" but my late experience has me believing that my body is craving nutrients and my gut isn't so much of an issue.

I was also curious because some of the things you list such as yellowish/jaundice hands, feeling cold or anemic, and maybe some other stuff I can't remember can possibly be attributed to low Vitamin B9 or B12. I experienced all of those first hand with low B vitamins, even before I took fin.

I appreciate the input! I have tried goat kefir a few times & it gives me gnarly farts and definitely does something to my gut. I’m not sure if it’s good or bad, but I’ll reconsider it because I like dairy & didn’t have issues with it before. Most exclusions that I make are precautionary and I plan on slowly reintroducing things. I was periodically supplementing methyl-b12 which didn’t have any discerning effect for me, and I thought I was getting plenty diverse B’s from the meat and vegetables that I eat, most notably chicken liver.

The dementia type state that you reference is exactly how I have been feeling too. The “dissociative”/disconnect from reality is all too real, no irony intended. As with everything here, I’m still positive that we’re going in the right direction and these intense bouts of brain fog/dementia/disassociation whatever we want to call it will soon dissipate and we can begin the next leg of our journey. Looking forward to your next update.

[barbaar]

I've noticed the same thing regarding my memory. As I start feeling more like myself again it's like my old memories "unlock" so to speak. Seems to happen in reverse chronological order too.

[Cdsnuts]

I was just happy to be able to "feel the day" so to speak. At my worst it just seemed there was no "feel" to anything. Just a blank numbness. Seeing as emotions are almost impossible to explain this is the only way I can put it. When my mind started "losening up" I was able to feel more subtle things that were lost for so long. This is a great sign. It's these little breaks in the clouds that give you hope and motivation to keep going.

[Turnover25]

I've noticed the same thing regarding my memory. As I start feeling more like myself again it's like my old memories "unlock" so to speak. Seems to happen in reverse chronological order too.

Same, the memories that are popping into my head are from when I was really young or teenage years. I haven't thought of them in so long I find myself thinking "That was me??" Or "I did that?" kinda like I forgot my life until now.

[Turnover25]

I was just happy to be able to "feel the day" so to speak. At my worst it just seemed there was no "feel" to anything. Just a blank numbness. Seeing as emotions are almost impossible to explain this is the only way I can put it. When my mind started "losening up" I was able to feel more subtle things that were lost for so long. This is a great sign. It's these little breaks in the clouds that give you hope and motivation to keep going.

The other week I had a morning where I "felt the day" again. I walked downstairs and the slider was open and I could smell the grass and it just felt like a comfortable Saturday morning. Also, on a cloudy/rainy day I experienced that feeling where you want to just relax and watch Netflix and the rain is calming rather than just a gray ass gloomy depressing smog of gray outside. I forgot life felt like that. I'm back to my anhedonic state now. It came after a slight diet change so I think I'm on a better track now.

Breaks in the clouds is a good way to put it.

[Cdsnuts]

The other week I had a morning where I "felt the day" again. I walked downstairs and the slider was open and I could smell the grass and it just felt like a comfortable Saturday morning. Also, on a cloudy/rainy day I experienced that feeling where you want to just relax and watch Netflix and the rain is calming rather than just a gray ass gloomy depressing smog of gray outside. I forgot life felt like that. I'm back to my anhedonic state now. It came after a slight diet change so I think I'm on a better track now.

Breaks in the clouds is a good way to put it.

Life. We forget how comfortable and relaxed we can feel naturally after going through this. Once you get it back though, you appreciate that shit unlike ever before.

[Ratchet]

Hey all, I’m rounding out day 4 of a 5 day water fast. I just wanted to see if any you have any suggestions for the refeed. Last time I did bone broth, steamed veggies, an avocado. I ended up shitting it all out. Looking for something tasty & nutritionally optimal!

Best,

Ratchet

[Ratchet]

Just finished my 2nd 5-day water fast. Definitely easier this time around, body seemed much more equipped than last time. That being said, this was one of the busiest/most stressful weeks at work I’ve ever had, so not optimal timing for my fast. We completely moved warehouse locations w/ two guys, so physically demanding too.

Some notable experiences:

Day 2: Severe brain fog —> this lead to extreme emotional breakdown. Copper purge, hormone shifts, extreme anxiety & stress, keto flu, who knows what caused it? Slept well afterwards though.

Day 3: Recovery from day 2. Slowly felt better. Nothing notable.

Day 4: Energy burst & clarity. Felt well enough for an intense downhill bike ride & weight session.

Day 5: Sluggish af.

Refed w/ a kettle&fire beef bone broth, celery, spinach, cilantro, arugula microgreens, green onion, garlic, a little ghee (all cooked w/ each other). 1/4 cup bubbies sauerkraut & 1/4 cup fermented carrots. Hardly shit anything out this time!

Green shake ~2hrs later. Steamed dino kale, purple kale, & beet greens in blender w/ parsley, lemon wedge, small green apple, ginger, turmeric, cucumber, & 2 scoops vital proteins collagen. I thought this would really do me in, but aside from some stomach gurgles, all good.

Went to bed ~hour later & woke up & had a nice, solid poop. Slept well the entire fast, only one wake up/night & easily fell back asleep.

5’9”. Dropped from 172lbs to 159lbs, haven’t checked to see what I’ve rebounded to. It looks like I’m actually a little less muscular at my leanest this time around, so I don’t plan on extended fasting again for another
8-12 months. I probably should have waited two more months until this fast, but oh well.

I’m going to really focus on gains from here on out. Just hit a 5x5 @ 225 on bench, so strength is still there. Testing squats & deadlifts these next few days.

I also want to incorporate more food diversity. I’m going to start by adding goat kefir for dairy & potentially some beans for backloading down the road.

Enjoying another green shake for breakfast today, different ingredients this time around around. I really want to go buy a grass fed ribeye for dinner tonight, you guys think that’s too much too quickly? It’d be ~26 hours post fast.

All the best,

Ratchet

[mcbbould]

The other week I had a morning where I "felt the day" again. I walked downstairs and the slider was open and I could smell the grass and it just felt like a comfortable Saturday morning. Also, on a cloudy/rainy day I experienced that feeling where you want to just relax and watch Netflix and the rain is calming rather than just a gray ass gloomy depressing smog of gray outside. I forgot life felt like that. I'm back to my anhedonic state now. It came after a slight diet change so I think I'm on a better track now.

Breaks in the clouds is a good way to put it.


I am so so looking forward to this. You describe it so perfectly and simply. This is what I’ve been missing. It’s a blank appreciation that comes from your senses but goes far far deeper.

[Turnover25]

I am so so looking forward to this. You describe it so perfectly and simply. This is what I’ve been missing. It’s a blank appreciation that comes from your senses but goes far far deeper.

Yeah man, take it from someone who has suffered from the worst of the worst cognitive decline from PFS, you can definitely recover. The first time it happened where my brain "turned on" it was very distinct, you're going to notice it immediately, it's like your thoughts are all laid out in front of you and it's extremely easy to think and speak. I think you're a lot closer than you think also, I swapped out different fruits/veggies in my diet, added some nuts and dairy, coconut water and focused on eating more fish and shellfish and I had my first mental upswing within days. My advice would be to play around with your paleo diet and see which foods work better than others. In my experience, you might "hit the nail on the head" a few times where you eat the right things and your brain switches on and off. I'm no where near where I want to be, but the experience has given me new legs and showed me what we are working toward.

[Ratchet]

Hey guys,

I’m going to take some time away from the forum and do my best to really focus on all of the other areas of my life that aren’t PFS. This seems like a necessary next step in the healing process. Thank you to all who have contributed to my thread & helped me through my experience so far. I look forward to seeing your progress when I return when the time is right!

All the best,

Ratchet

[Bankai9000]

Hey man I didn't mean to say we should fast only once every 6months cuz I think that's how you understood me^^
They say that sick people should fast even once a month 5-7days (Valter Longo's words). Extraordinary healthy people 2x a year and the average person 3-4x a year.
I'm also not saying "do this to fight PFS"^^. So the fast you did should bring in only positivies mate

And fruits aren't the enemy, they gave me a lot of energy during this whole journey, no way I could do it without them. But you need to make sure your gut is somewhat working before going hard on fruits And veggies.
Food diversity(gut bacteria diversity) seems to be one of the leading key markers for health

See yaa Ratchet!

[Cdsnuts]

Hey man I didn't mean to say we should fast only once every 6months cuz I think that's how you understood me^^
They say that sick people should fast even once a month 5-7days (Valter Longo's words). Extraordinary healthy people 2x a year and the average person 3-4x a year.
I'm also not saying "do this to fight PFS"^^. So the fast you did should bring in only positivies mate

And fruits aren't the enemy, they gave me a lot of energy during this whole journey, no way I could do it without them. But you need to make sure your gut is somewhat working before going hard on fruits And veggies.
Food diversity(gut bacteria diversity) seems to be one of the leading key markers for health

See yaa Ratchet!

If doing a substantial fast of three weeks or so, I would say simply from personal experience that one of these a year, tops, and that's if you're sick. Otherwise, I would say once every five years as a form of a "tune up" is more then sufficient.

[Ratchet]

Hello everyone! I just wanted to stop in provide an update, as the forum seems a bit more active than usual.

I took a break from the forum, but not really. I was off for about a month & then started periodically checking it almost every week to keep up with everyone else & search for support/validation when I needed it.

That being said, I’ve been feeling much better overall for the past month/two months almost. To kick things off with the positives:

Almost no brain fog/mental symptoms I.e concentration, finding words, trouble speaking, dementia, fucked up/dysfunctional thought processes. This is the most notable improvement for me, & I think those who are slammed with mental sides know what I’m talking about. I had convinced myself at one point that i was going to go schizophrenic and completely lose it, so its been an amazing respite filled with good conversation, laughter, and just a better overall affect. My friends and family have noticed this, and I’m feeling positive about the future. I find myself thinking forward most of the time now, unlike before. What’s even better, is that this has held up despite hammering my body with things that might not be conducive to health and healing. I haven’t drank/smoke/“gluttened” myself yet, but my diet has definitely fallen off hard and I’ve found myself pushing the boundaries with homemade ice cream, dried/frozen fruit, nuts, fried plantains, chiccharones, & sugar almost every night. Seriously, I smacked an entire 2lb Costco bag of blueberries last night, it was disgusting. I’ve also been through multiple, very stressful periods at work, relationships, etc. that haven’t really brought it back out like they used to. In other words, I’m definitely more tolerant of stress.

Another incredible development – and I want those who deal with this to hear it - my hourglass, my “potato in a sock” dick, my FUBAR’d tourniquet of a cock, isn’t so. Seriously, the hourglass is gone. I’ve even stress tested this too by engaging in things that normally would have made it more pronounced or rear it’s ugly head (jerking off, pushing really hard while peeing, you know what I’m talking about), but it seriously doesn’t seem to be there anymore. It now gently curves to the left & is still a bit rotated off axis, but this is a huge morphological improvement in my book, and it needs to be heard by those who have it – IT CAN HEAL. It’s not permanent.

To be succinct with the rest: morning/nocturnal erections are more frequent. I’m averaging over 7.5 hours of sleep a night with quality REM/Deep (I measure this with Whoop). Vision improved. Almost no episodes of jaundice/yellow hands. I think this was anemia, not liver damage.

Negatives: still low/non-existent libido. I still jizz a sad amount that kind of just dribbles out. Dick did atrophy a bit, so size is still reduced (getting better with nocturnals though). Axis rotation, slight bend to left. Nuts still can’t make up their mind: they’re either touching the floor or very tucked up. They still do that weird movement too.

I recently just had bloods done. Most everything checked out, but I’m concerned about a few things:

Rising AST/ALTs. I had bloodwork done two weeks after starting finasteride (a week after sides started) that gave a somewhat good picture of my baseline bloods. My AST/ALT were 14 and 12 respectively, so pretty good. Now they’ve steadily creeped up to around 25 and 29. I’m also a bit worried about kidneys. My pee is pretty foamy every piss, and most of my markers are close to top of range (BUN, creatinine, etc.)

I’m anemic. My workout performance lately reflects this. I compete in crossfit, and I’m nowhere near where I used to be. My O2 carrying capacity is absolute shit. My hematocrit was 37, hemoglobin 12. My iron was low end of range, but it’s definitely not a nutritional deficiency as I eat tons of organ meats, red meat, spinach, etc. and ferritin is high at 200.
It could be caused by something in the b vitamin world, but I tread lightly in that realm, as I should be receiving adequate amounts in my diet and after reading turnovers & others experience with them.

And last, but not least, my total testosterone still hasn’t moved and sits at 390, and my free testosterone has finally dropped out of range to 7pg/mL (9.6-26.5). I had my estradiol done too and it was 12.9 (7.6-42.6). I won’t dwell on this, but I want to acknowledge it for a couple reasons. One, I’ve been feeling much better lately. I was hoping this would occur in congruence with a higher test level, so I am definitely bummed to see that it was the opposite. Two, and I hope you all are reading this still, I haven’t been cycling herbs. After my last fast, I decided to give them a break and started seeing improvements. Could be a correlation/coincidence/cause who knows, but I haven’t used them in two months. I’m thinking about giving them another go here soon to see if they bring back the mental sides. If they do, then I’m not sure how to proceed.

And that’s it for me. Sort of a long post. I’ll hang around to answer anyone’s questions or just chat for a bit, but I plan on trying to distance myself from the forum again & go back out into life without thinking about PFS.

Moving forward, Im signing up for Dave Lipson’s Thunderbro 30 day shred this July. I know Dave through a gym I used to workout in in Colorado. He’s super knowledgeable and does excellent programming. Last time I checked, he focuses on hypertrophy training, which is a different style than what I’m used to, but it’s always good to switch it up. This program also walks you through carb cycling, which I want to learn more about. Not here to promote anything, but you guys should check it out because I think it will align with protocol nicely. I plan on using July/August as a two month period of hard lifting and perfect diet, so I’ll update you all in September. That will be approaching almost a year off fin (Oct 11th)

Otherwise, enjoy your long weekends and happy 4th!

Ratchet

[Ratchet]

A package addressed to a Richard Johnson from DX Products just arrived at my doorstep. Weird. Anybody here still pumping that’s truly seen some improvements from it?

[Cdsnuts]

A package addressed to a Richard Johnson from DX Products just arrived at my doorstep. Weird. Anybody here still pumping that’s truly seen some improvements from it?

EVERYBODY should be pumping. If you're not getting regular erections your penis shrinks. You need to get those hormones up and start using it. Every guy that has gotten the hang of it is thrilled that they have. The bathmate is a game changer.

[Ratchet]

“We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.
Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can”

Wishing all the best to everyone! I just returned from an 8 day rafting excursion through the desert. The above quote sums up my experience nicely. I put my body through the wringer this past week – 150+ seltzers, handles of tequila & whiskey, cigarettes, mushrooms, you name it – over a period of six straight days. The only aspect of the protocol I followed was no gluten.

Prior to the trip I had made serious strides all around. So far the ol’ rig seems to be holding up just fine. We’ll see. I don’t plan on hanging around here but will check in again in a few months. You guys are great but just returning to the board gives me anxiety and triggers all sorts of shit like brain fog.

So far: big lift in neurological sides. Libido is returning. Nightly/morning wood frequent. Sweating like a demon. Skin seems normal, still no acne yet though. Penile shrinkage/atrophy/hourglass pretty much resolved with frequent erections and I have no doubt I’ll regain full size eventually. Jizzing the same amount that I used to. Sleeping 7+ hours a night. Performance in gym improving.

I’m planning to hit the protocol hard the next three months. Starting a new training program that I think will remove a lot of stress on my body and aid in recovery. Also going to up my carbohydrate intake a bit and eat them for breakfast/lunch instead of night. I want to see what effect this has on biomarkers.

Take care everyone!

Ratchet

[The whit wagon]

“We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.
Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can”

Wishing all the best to everyone! I just returned from an 8 day rafting excursion through the desert. The above quote sums up my experience nicely. I put my body through the wringer this past week – 150+ seltzers, handles of tequila & whiskey, cigarettes, mushrooms, you name it – over a period of six straight days. The only aspect of the protocol I followed was no gluten.

Prior to the trip I had made serious strides all around. So far the ol’ rig seems to be holding up just fine. We’ll see. I don’t plan on hanging around here but will check in again in a few months. You guys are great but just returning to the board gives me anxiety and triggers all sorts of shit like brain fog.

So far: big lift in neurological sides. Libido is returning. Nightly/morning wood frequent. Sweating like a demon. Skin seems normal, still no acne yet though. Penile shrinkage/atrophy/hourglass pretty much resolved with frequent erections and I have no doubt I’ll regain full size eventually. Jizzing the same amount that I used to. Sleeping 7+ hours a night. Performance in gym improving.

I’m planning to hit the protocol hard the next three months. Starting a new training program that I think will remove a lot of stress on my body and aid in recovery. Also going to up my carbohydrate intake a bit and eat them for breakfast/lunch instead of night. I want to see what effect this has on biomarkers.

Take care everyone!

Ratchet

Thats fucking nice man great to see you doing well, You been using the bathmate it helps with size and from what I've seen can add even more when you're recovered.

[Ratchet]

Thats fucking nice man great to see you doing well, You been using the bathmate it helps with size and from what I've seen can add even more when you're recovered.

I haven’t been using the bathmate. It’s not for a lack of trying tho. I can’t seem to form a strong enough seal without crushing the underside confluence where my ballsack and dick meet. I’m going to give it a go each time I take an epsom salt bath and see if it’s easier then.

[The whit wagon]

I haven’t been using the bathmate. It’s not for a lack of trying tho. I can’t seem to form a strong enough seal without crushing the underside confluence where my ballsack and dick meet. I’m going to give it a go each time I take an epsom salt bath and see if it’s easier then.

Yeah theres a learning curve I've only just figured it out myself, one time one of my balls got sucked in scary times to say the least.

[Ratchet]

Stay away from the sauce boys.

Ratchet

[Ratchet]

Turned 25 today. 24 was the hardest year of my life, but I’m genuinely excited for what 25 will bring. Good things, I know it. I’m still not fully recovered, but I definitely rounded a corner ~3 months ago and recovery feels within reach. I’ll officially be a year off fin in like two weeks.

Anyways, boozed & did cocaine last night, will probably pay for it here soon. I think switching to a fluoride free toothpaste might help. That’s a joke – ha ha. But seriously, it’s all protocol from here on out.

Wishing everyone the best. Fuck gluten!

Ratchet

P.s. I almost forgot to mention! I had bloods taken last week & my total T was in the 500s. My free t was also way above the lower limit & estradiol was sitting pat @ 22. All of my other bloods were damn near perfect, except for my liver enzymes of course. Those will follow suit here soon enough. Need to lay off the blueberries.

[Turnover25]

Turned 25 today. 24 was the hardest year of my life, but I’m genuinely excited for what 25 will bring. Good things, I know it. I’m still not fully recovered, but I definitely rounded a corner ~3 months ago and recovery feels within reach. I’ll officially be a year off fin in like two weeks.

Anyways, boozed & did cocaine last night, will probably pay for it here soon. I think switching to a fluoride free toothpaste might help. That’s a joke – ha ha. But seriously, it’s all protocol from here on out.

Wishing everyone the best. Fuck gluten!

Ratchet

P.s. I almost forgot to mention! I had bloods taken last week & my total T was in the 500s. My free t was also way above the lower limit & estradiol was sitting pat @ 22. All of my other bloods were damn near perfect, except for my liver enzymes of course. Those will follow suit here soon enough. Need to lay off the blueberries.


This shit made me crack up lol. Glad to see you're doing alright man.

[Cdsnuts]

This shit made me crack up lol. Glad to see you're doing alright man.

Same here....dying....lol!

[blackkey96]

Love your journey Ratchet. I am also a 24 year old and in the same boat about 2 months post fin so looking at your thread gives me hope. Especially the way you so eloquently describe it. You have the best attitude. Btw, confused about the following:


“

Jizzing the same amount that I used to"

Ratchet
Does this mean "pre-fin" aka better now or the same old lower volume post-fin? Are you still taking herbs?

[Ratchet]

Love your journey Ratchet. I am also a 24 year old and in the same boat about 2 months post fin so looking at your thread gives me hope. Especially the way you so eloquently describe it. You have the best attitude. Btw, confused about the following:


Does this mean "pre-fin" aka better now or the same old lower volume post-fin? Are you still taking herbs?

Hey blackkey,

Thanks for your compliments & I’m sorry to hear that you’re going through the same shit.

To first answer your question – there were periods where I’d shoot straight blanks or like a sad, measly drop of jizz, even after not wanking it for a week. That has resolved itself & I’m back to blowing chicks minds and filling socks. Mostly filling socks.

I am taking the herbs again & following the protocol, less some cold showers, meditation, and some breathing exercises. They’re important, I should be doing them more often, working on it. Also, I can’t attribute any form of my recovery to one thing, so don’t expect to start the herbs and your semen to come back. Cover all your bases and move on.

To you and everyone else who might read this (sorry too for using this as a launch pad for my rant):

I’m not going to go into where I’m at symptom wise or what % recovered I am. Truth is, I don’t really know & I’m not trying to reach some retrospective baseline of health anymore. What I am doing is trying to live the rest of my life to it’s fullest while savoring all of the things that I can still enjoy today. I’ve stopped viewing my body as broken and started viewing it for what it is – a miraculous, beast of a machine that is still living despite all of the hits it’s taken, including PFS. If any of you think you’ll ever attain perfect health and maintain it too, think again. Very few people make it through this life unscathed. Roll with the punches and make the most of an amazing gift, however painful or meaningless it might be to you.

That is NOT me saying you won’t recover, it’s me telling you to stop holding yourself to expectations of perfect health. Your energy is better spent elsewhere and I think you’ll find whatever respite you’re looking for when you stop looking down the rabbit hole you find yourself in now.

A bit of a rant, but I’m pissed at myself. I made a point a few months ago to leave all of this behind. My boy Turnover25 came to this decision too on his own accord. I think anyone who has truly recovered learns this at some point along the way. Heed the advice of those that came before you: develop a plan, set it and forget it, and leave this shit behind. It’s really hard, but every time you resist the urge to do more research or visit a forum, you are taking a step in the right direction.

I came here to see if anyone was talking about Long COVID and that was a mistake. It was a step in the wrong direction for me. Nonetheless, to leave all you with an unnessecary bit of hope: people, including doctors, are coming down with what mirrors PFS/CFS/and many other undetectable, chronic diseases on a scale never before seen. A lot of research and progress is going to be made in then next decade that will illuminate what we’re dealing with and resolve it. CD might even be awarded a fucking Nobel peace prize for discovering a treatment protocol 20 years prior.

In the meantime, do the protocol, live your life without fear, and when you come out of this and recover, look back with pride at what you were able to accomplish despite all of this, and look forward with gratitude for everything you still have. You don’t want to look back with any regret for the time you wasted reading this forum or others when you could have been out doing something awesome instead.

Also, just read Dune. Great book. Fear is the mindkiller. Lookup that quote & embrace its philosophy. Read that book. Read more books. Veering off track now. Take care of yourselves. Wear a fucking mask. Lean into the pain. You will recover if you follow the protocol AND divorce yourself from PFS.

You won’t be hearing from me for a long time, if ever.

Happy thanksgiving you turkeys.

Ratchet

[blackkey96]

Wonderful words Ratchet. I was really hoping some symptom- update because your entire story and progress gave me a lot of hope. But i'll take what you wrote and apply it to my life as well. I just hope i end up getting my libido back is all. Have a wonderful life!

- - - Updated - - -

[Turnover25]

Hey blackkey,

Thanks for your compliments & I’m sorry to hear that you’re going through the same shit.

To first answer your question – there were periods where I’d shoot straight blanks or like a sad, measly drop of jizz, even after not wanking it for a week. That has resolved itself & I’m back to blowing chicks minds and filling socks. Mostly filling socks.

I am taking the herbs again & following the protocol, less some cold showers, meditation, and some breathing exercises. They’re important, I should be doing them more often, working on it. Also, I can’t attribute any form of my recovery to one thing, so don’t expect to start the herbs and your semen to come back. Cover all your bases and move on.

To you and everyone else who might read this (sorry too for using this as a launch pad for my rant):

I’m not going to go into where I’m at symptom wise or what % recovered I am. Truth is, I don’t really know & I’m not trying to reach some retrospective baseline of health anymore. What I am doing is trying to live the rest of my life to it’s fullest while savoring all of the things that I can still enjoy today. I’ve stopped viewing my body as broken and started viewing it for what it is – a miraculous, beast of a machine that is still living despite all of the hits it’s taken, including PFS. If any of you think you’ll ever attain perfect health and maintain it too, think again. Very few people make it through this life unscathed. Roll with the punches and make the most of an amazing gift, however painful or meaningless it might be to you.

That is NOT me saying you won’t recover, it’s me telling you to stop holding yourself to expectations of perfect health. Your energy is better spent elsewhere and I think you’ll find whatever respite you’re looking for when you stop looking down the rabbit hole you find yourself in now.

A bit of a rant, but I’m pissed at myself. I made a point a few months ago to leave all of this behind. My boy Turnover25 came to this decision too on his own accord. I think anyone who has truly recovered learns this at some point along the way. Heed the advice of those that came before you: develop a plan, set it and forget it, and leave this shit behind. It’s really hard, but every time you resist the urge to do more research or visit a forum, you are taking a step in the right direction.

I came here to see if anyone was talking about Long COVID and that was a mistake. It was a step in the wrong direction for me. Nonetheless, to leave all you with an unnessecary bit of hope: people, including doctors, are coming down with what mirrors PFS/CFS/and many other undetectable, chronic diseases on a scale never before seen. A lot of research and progress is going to be made in then next decade that will illuminate what we’re dealing with and resolve it. CD might even be awarded a fucking Nobel peace prize for discovering a treatment protocol 20 years prior.

In the meantime, do the protocol, live your life without fear, and when you come out of this and recover, look back with pride at what you were able to accomplish despite all of this, and look forward with gratitude for everything you still have. You don’t want to look back with any regret for the time you wasted reading this forum or others when you could have been out doing something awesome instead.

Also, just read Dune. Great book. Fear is the mindkiller. Lookup that quote & embrace its philosophy. Read that book. Read more books. Veering off track now. Take care of yourselves. Wear a fucking mask. Lean into the pain. You will recover if you follow the protocol AND divorce yourself from PFS.

You won’t be hearing from me for a long time, if ever.

Happy thanksgiving you turkeys.

Ratchet

You’re my boy blue! Get outta here and go live you’re life my man. You’ll be above and beyond before you know it.

[Ratchet]

Fuck me. I’m back.

Little update: I’ve been doing great. Upswings are lasting weeks. Brain fog, anhedonia, & all it entails are intermittent and short. Energy, overall sense of well being, etc have all dramatically improved. What’s interesting is my resting heart rate, which climbed from high 30s/low 40s to low 60s/mid 60s has been coming down to low 50s/40s (a good thing). I don’t wear my whoop anymore, but I’m sure my bottomed out HRV is probably significantly higher too. Morning wood, nocturnal erections every day/night. Libido and spont boners are increasing slowly too. All in all, great stuff. I’ve been following protocol except for meditation (makes my sense of disconnect/emotional blunting worse) and cold showers. I jump in a river 2x a week and am going to start doing showers every day now. Everyone else do meditation, it’s probably good for you. I just want to hold onto my ego.

Anyways, what hasn’t been going well and I’m fucking pissed is my dick. About a month after stopping fin I developed the fabled hourglass that would rear its ugly fucking shape every time I pissed or my cock was cold. It wasn’t pronounced with an erection though, only half chubs and what I listed above. I don’t know when but I developed pretty deep indents all up the left side of my shaft that show when erect, presumably from whatever is causing the hourglass. Like a ribbed jimmy. This improved slightly overtime but has always been there and the indents haven’t moved. I started pumping diligently the last two months to sort this out. I flew too close to the sun and over pumped once. Took a deep breath and let the little guy sit for a week. Anyways, since then ~4 weeks~ the indents have become worse, I’ve developed some on my right side, and have a couple more on the left. Furthermore, my dick has gone from a 7x5.5 to a fuckin 6.25x5 and seems to be getting worse. Feels too skinny in my hand. Also starting to have mild pain with boners and weaker erections.

CD – and whoever else has experienced this – is this Peyronies or a weird consequence of fin that mimics Peyronies? Does this resolve? If so, is it one of the last to go? I’m a year & 3 months off. A little over a year on protocol.

I’ve read the Peyronies forum. COQ10, L-Arg, L-Carnitine, Vit E are recommended. Do these fit in with protocol and has anybody been fucked by anything listed above?

All in all, I’m unsure of how to proceed. PFS is a fucking minefield and I don’t want to step on any mines, especially ones disguised as things that are supposed to help. I’m hesitant to keep pumping, as this coincided with this flare up and seems like it could be making it worse.

Thanks for the advice in advance. Take care of yourselves.

Any PH’er’s and children stay off my post. Cooper I’m looking at you.

Ratchet

[blackkey96]

Maxout once mentioned that it is a receptor issue and resolved overtime.

[Cdsnuts]

Fuck me. I’m back.

Little update: I’ve been doing great. Upswings are lasting weeks. Brain fog, anhedonia, & all it entails are intermittent and short. Energy, overall sense of well being, etc have all dramatically improved. What’s interesting is my resting heart rate, which climbed from high 30s/low 40s to low 60s/mid 60s has been coming down to low 50s/40s (a good thing). I don’t wear my whoop anymore, but I’m sure my bottomed out HRV is probably significantly higher too. Morning wood, nocturnal erections every day/night. Libido and spont boners are increasing slowly too. All in all, great stuff. I’ve been following protocol except for meditation (makes my sense of disconnect/emotional blunting worse) and cold showers. I jump in a river 2x a week and am going to start doing showers every day now. Everyone else do meditation, it’s probably good for you. I just want to hold onto my ego.

Anyways, what hasn’t been going well and I’m fucking pissed is my dick. About a month after stopping fin I developed the fabled hourglass that would rear its ugly fucking shape every time I pissed or my cock was cold. It wasn’t pronounced with an erection though, only half chubs and what I listed above. I don’t know when but I developed pretty deep indents all up the left side of my shaft that show when erect, presumably from whatever is causing the hourglass. Like a ribbed jimmy. This improved slightly overtime but has always been there and the indents haven’t moved. I started pumping diligently the last two months to sort this out. I flew too close to the sun and over pumped once. Took a deep breath and let the little guy sit for a week. Anyways, since then ~4 weeks~ the indents have become worse, I’ve developed some on my right side, and have a couple more on the left. Furthermore, my dick has gone from a 7x5.5 to a fuckin 6.25x5 and seems to be getting worse. Feels too skinny in my hand. Also starting to have mild pain with boners and weaker erections.

CD – and whoever else has experienced this – is this Peyronies or a weird consequence of fin that mimics Peyronies? Does this resolve? If so, is it one of the last to go? I’m a year & 3 months off. A little over a year on protocol.

I’ve read the Peyronies forum. COQ10, L-Arg, L-Carnitine, Vit E are recommended. Do these fit in with protocol and has anybody been fucked by anything listed above?

All in all, I’m unsure of how to proceed. PFS is a fucking minefield and I don’t want to step on any mines, especially ones disguised as things that are supposed to help. I’m hesitant to keep pumping, as this coincided with this flare up and seems like it could be making it worse.

Thanks for the advice in advance. Take care of yourselves.

Any PH’er’s and children stay off my post. Cooper I’m looking at you.

Ratchet

First off, congrats on your progress thus far. It's been well earned.

In regards to your current issue, I wouldn't stop pumping, but I wouldn't overdo it either. This will go away eventually, as does all else. Just stop going "too close to the sun" for your own good. The pumping wouldn't cause these problems, only help them, so this is just a coincidence that it coincided with your pumping injury.

Just keep grinding man. This too, shall pass. Before you know it you'll be posting in the recovery section.

[Ratchet]

First off, congrats on your progress thus far. It's been well earned.

In regards to your current issue, I wouldn't stop pumping, but I wouldn't overdo it either. This will go away eventually, as does all else. Just stop going "too close to the sun" for your own good. The pumping wouldn't cause these problems, only help them, so this is just a coincidence that it coincided with your pumping injury.

Just keep grinding man. This too, shall pass. Before you know it you'll be posting in the recovery section.

You had this happen as well? Aka the indentation, reduced size, etc? I’m just worried that after stable progress and a year off it all of sudden became worse. I don’t want to lose any more inches.

When you pump, do you pump to fully erect or just like 50%? When I over pumped everything felt okay until I pulled out of it, then there was just numbness and swelling, so no way to really tell what’s too much when I’m in the tube.

[Cdsnuts]

You had this happen as well? Aka the indentation, reduced size, etc? I’m just worried that after stable progress and a year off it all of sudden became worse. I don’t want to lose any more inches.

When you pump, do you pump to fully erect or just like 50%? When I over pumped everything felt okay until I pulled out of it, then there was just numbness and swelling, so no way to really tell what’s too much when I’m in the tube.

I lost size in general during the worst of the nightmare. Length and girth...mostly girth. Pencil dick....well, that's what it felt like in my hand compared to how it usually felt.

The pumping isn't going to shrink your dick, if anything, it's going to give it size, especially right after a session. There has to be something else going on or you're just in a bad downswing. Sometimes during healing when things start going good you'll get hit with a bad one....it happens. Don't panic.

When I pump, I pump to fully FULL, not erect.....there is a difference when pumping. You don't actually want to get excited.....you just have to fully relax and let your cock fill up SLOWLY, over the course of pumping. It's not like it's a hard on more so a water balloon filled to the max with fluid. No sexual thoughts at all when I do it....just a manual fill up of the unit.

You can feel when you're over doing it as it will usually start to hurt or "pinch," that's when you know you have to back down on the pressure. Some swelling is normal, but not numbness.

Pump till it's full, but doesn't hurt, then let it just set like that for the duration of the five minute set. When you release it, pull out your dick and grab it by the base, smack it up and down against your stomach and have it swing down past your balls (I pull my balls to the side so they don't get hit). Whip it like this up an down for five seconds or so to get the new blood moving, then reinsert and go for rep two, same thing for rep three.

By the end you should have a nice, meaty hang. It's normal for the glans to be a little distorted by the end of the session. As long as there is no pain or numbness, you're good to go.

[Ratchet]

Going to hit a 7+ day water fast here to hopefully rid my unit of this plaque and reverse whatever is going on. The hourglass was manageable, but now there are dents all along the underside, right side, and it hurts to hold an erection, however soft it may be. I don’t want to wait around and watch these things harden and strangle my guy. Which sucks, cause I feel like I was making some serious progress and I know that a fast like this will definitely move me back in the short term. Anyone see any issue with this? It doesn’t sound like most guys here are having this issue with their dick, especially this far along in their journey.

[Cdsnuts]

Going to hit a 7+ day water fast here to hopefully rid my unit of this plaque and reverse whatever is going on. The hourglass was manageable, but now there are dents all along the underside, right side, and it hurts to hold an erection, however soft it may be. I don’t want to wait around and watch these things harden and strangle my guy. Which sucks, cause I feel like I was making some serious progress and I know that a fast like this will definitely move me back in the short term. Anyone see any issue with this? It doesn’t sound like most guys here are having this issue with their dick, especially this far along in their journey.

When was the last time you fasted? A year ago plus? If so, a nice seven day tune up may be just what the doctor ordered.....nothing wrong with cleansing.

[Ratchet]

Did a 5 day in Jan 2020, a 5 day in May, so it will be ~8 months ago.

[Cdsnuts]

Did a 5 day in Jan 2020, a 5 day in May, so it will be ~8 months ago.

Then go for it.

I did four total water fasts during my road to recovery although it wasn't done in the way that I recommend now, it was still paramount to leading me to recovery. A cleanse is ALWAYS beneficial for the system......always.

Go for seven days this time if you can swing it. The longer, the better.

[Ratchet]

Hey guys. Sad ratchet here. It seems I really fucked my dick up. I developed new plaques a few weeks ago that coincided with pumping. I have indents all along the right side of my penis now, as well as one on the underside that is easily felt on the long, blood filled tube going up the middle of your underside dick. I haven’t had any nocturnal erections since these formed, the tip of my dick is always very cold, I can’t get an erection at all really. Hard flaccid really bad. I tried to continue pumping really gently just to inflate the thing and it seems to be aggravating things/making them worse. I’m truly heartbroken because I’ve come so far just to have this happen. To happen after a breakup. I know stress is playing a significant role here, but I can’t even get it up myself with 10mg of cialis flowing through my veins. I was okay going from a 7”x6” to a 6.25”x5, but I have a horrible feeling this is going to get a lot worse with my current situation overtime. The silver lining is that my hourglass is gone, but only because I have something in the right side counteracting whatever was on the left causing the hourglass to begin with.

If this were to resolve and my dick was back to its old glory – I’d put myself at 98% recovered. I only have small bouts of brain fog and no libido that come and go. No libido at all now, obviously. I got my bloods done recently and everything is perfect, even by the strict standards more informed medical/fitness practitioners would use.

I don’t want to scare anyone away from pumping, it honestly does miracles for most. Pay attention to your body and ask yourself beforehand if you could be happy with what you had. I would trade my current situation for my old one in a heart beat and would have never tried. I’m not going to concede that’s it’s over yet, but I am feeling hopeless at the moment.

There was a time I told myself I would live as a eunuch as long as I got my mind and body back, so I am truly grateful for all of the progress I have made. I might just eat those words tho. Life goes on.

All the best – fuck gluten

Ratchet

[Cdsnuts]

Hey guys. Sad ratchet here. It seems I really fucked my dick up. I developed new plaques a few weeks ago that coincided with pumping. I have indents all along the right side of my penis now, as well as one on the underside that is easily felt on the long, blood filled tube going up the middle of your underside dick. I haven’t had any nocturnal erections since these formed, the tip of my dick is always very cold, I can’t get an erection at all really. Hard flaccid really bad. I tried to continue pumping really gently just to inflate the thing and it seems to be aggravating things/making them worse. I’m truly heartbroken because I’ve come so far just to have this happen. To happen after a breakup. I know stress is playing a significant role here, but I can’t even get it up myself with 10mg of cialis flowing through my veins. I was okay going from a 7”x6” to a 6.25”x5, but I have a horrible feeling this is going to get a lot worse with my current situation overtime. The silver lining is that my hourglass is gone, but only because I have something in the right side counteracting whatever was on the left causing the hourglass to begin with.

If this were to resolve and my dick was back to its old glory – I’d put myself at 98% recovered. I only have small bouts of brain fog and no libido that come and go. No libido at all now, obviously. I got my bloods done recently and everything is perfect, even by the strict standards more informed medical/fitness practitioners would use.

I don’t want to scare anyone away from pumping, it honestly does miracles for most. Pay attention to your body and ask yourself beforehand if you could be happy with what you had. I would trade my current situation for my old one in a heart beat and would have never tried. I’m not going to concede that’s it’s over yet, but I am feeling hopeless at the moment.

There was a time I told myself I would live as a eunuch as long as I got my mind and body back, so I am truly grateful for all of the progress I have made. I might just eat those words tho. Life goes on.

All the best – fuck gluten

Ratchet

While I understand your frustration, I certainly don't want to scare anyone away from pumping as it is a very intrical part of keeping things going downstairs. You MAY have over done it, but even then, the pumping wouldn't cause what you have going on currently.

[Turnover25]

Ratchet Hey man. Gonna comment here so we don’t hijack his thread. I’m doing alright these days. Still fucked but not as bad. I see you and dogglaw both surpassed me which I’m glad to see, but frustrated that I heal so slow. I did it to myself though, I drank quite a bit the past 6 months cuz I was feeling good and having fun. Also got glutened a few times and had way too much sugar. Could have possibly been recovered by now had I avoided all that, but I’m jumping on a water fast Thursday, then using the new year as my bench Mark to really hit this shit head on and be strict. All in all I’d say I’m progressing normally as I’ve read from other recovery stories. Only good things ahead I hope. Glad to see you’re doing well my man.

Edit: come to think of it. I remember when we talked like a year ago on message and we were both totally fucked, I’m nowhere near that position anymore. DP/DR and all that is gone. Memory is a lot better. Sometimes I forget how bad things were at that point.

[Cdsnuts]

Ratchet Hey man. Gonna comment here so we don’t hijack his thread. I’m doing alright these days. Still fucked but not as bad. I see you and dogglaw both surpassed me which I’m glad to see, but frustrated that I heal so slow. I did it to myself though, I drank quite a bit the past 6 months cuz I was feeling good and having fun. Also got glutened a few times and had way too much sugar. Could have possibly been recovered by now had I avoided all that, but I’m jumping on a water fast Thursday, then using the new year as my bench Mark to really hit this shit head on and be strict. All in all I’d say I’m progressing normally as I’ve read from other recovery stories. Only good things ahead I hope. Glad to see you’re doing well my man.

Edit: come to think of it. I remember when we talked like a year ago on message and we were both totally fucked, I’m nowhere near that position anymore. DP/DR and all that is gone. Memory is a lot better. Sometimes I forget how bad things were at that point.

That's the tricky part.....avoiding the chemicals when you start to feel good. You think you can do it penalty free....you think you're clear. But that's not the case, as you can see. This is exactly why I tell everyone to avoid the booze and drugs until you're symptom free for at least six months. Even then, tread lightly. You'll be glad you did.

[Turnover25]

That's the tricky part.....avoiding the chemicals when you start to feel good. You think you can do it penalty free....you think you're clear. But that's not the case, as you can see. This is exactly why I tell everyone to avoid the booze and drugs until you're symptom free for at least six months. Even then, tread lightly. You'll be glad you did.

Yeah, we’re only human after all. January 1st was day 1 of zero booze, zero sugar besides fruits until recovery. Just paleo. Almost month #1 of zero cheating down. Who knows how many to go.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah, we’re only human after all. January 1st was day 1 of zero booze, zero sugar besides fruits until recovery. Just paleo. Almost month #1 of zero cheating down. Who knows how many to go.

As many as it takes. If you want to get well, it really doesn't matter. Just know that you WILL get well by staying on the protocol 100%

[Ratchet_V2]

Hey guys,

OG Ratchet here. PFS brain made me forget my login information lol.

Update: I’ve fallen off hard. Im not doing well. Work and breakups have sunk me into a deep depression. Even if I didn’t have PFS, I’d probably still be depressed. Visited PH too, convinced myself fin flipped my sexual orientation & turned me gay. I guess I’m just going to have to learn everything the hard way. Since January, I’ve boozed more than a few times, consumed an entire juul pod a day, and had some questionable dietary choices. What’s funny is I still haven’t had gluten, although I’m sure the amount of ice cream, sugar, and other shit I’ve eaten is just as bad. Still working out. Still jacked AF. Still eating really healthy, just too much & with some questionable additions. Still rotating herbs. Cold showers. Sleeping decent. Hanging outside. I did complete a 7 day water fast.

I’m not sure where I’m at recovery wise at this point, but I know damn sure I’d be fucking close to finished if I didn’t fall of the horse, shoot the fuckin horse, dig a grave for it & jump in. Everyone around me is telling me I’m doing so much better, I’m a lot more like my old self, etc. etc. and I’m stuck in this DP/DR’d glass box, playing with my little peen like a nervous kid, feeling like a shell of a human being most of the time.

I guess I’m here to mark a new chapter in my journey and hopefully gain a little traction in my next steps. Depression is a motherfucker in that it completely drains you of all motivation and ambition, even when it comes to avoiding PFS. I’m not staying – I still think avoiding this place & others is key to beating this, but I figured I’d give another (hopefully last, until recovered) update. I’m sitting on 4 bottles of UH – I’m considering giving them a run this summer. It could be what’s needed. It could also be what cements in my anhedonia for life (all you UH’ers always come back and say you have no feelings anymore). I’m also worried about low E, since mine has tested below range every time, except for the last, I’ve had bloods done. None of this matters until I change my environment & sort myself out first though.

Anyways – do as I say, not as I do. You know the drill, the way out is through. Don’t cheat, don’t give up, not even once. You guys got this.

Much love

Ratchet

Edit: Visiting PH did come with one benefit though – stumbling across and going through all of Bizbee’s posts. I can’t tell if he’s a genius or an idiot, but he’s funny as shit.

[Comewhatmay]

LOL apologies I know I shouldnt laugh especially in our position but just when you think youve heard all with the side effects of fin you see the gay one. Only on PH...

[LIC2020]

Damn, who said they didn’t have feelings after a Ultrahard run? Feel like i’ve seen nothing but positive feedback on that..

[Cdsnuts]

Damn, who said they didn’t have feelings after a Ultrahard run? Feel like i’ve seen nothing but positive feedback on that..

Yeah that's a first one for me as well. Care to elborate?

[Cdsnuts]

Hey guys,

OG Ratchet here. PFS brain made me forget my login information lol.

Update: I’ve fallen off hard. Im not doing well. Work and breakups have sunk me into a deep depression. Even if I didn’t have PFS, I’d probably still be depressed. Visited PH too, convinced myself fin flipped my sexual orientation & turned me gay. I guess I’m just going to have to learn everything the hard way. Since January, I’ve boozed more than a few times, consumed an entire juul pod a day, and had some questionable dietary choices. What’s funny is I still haven’t had gluten, although I’m sure the amount of ice cream, sugar, and other shit I’ve eaten is just as bad. Still working out. Still jacked AF. Still eating really healthy, just too much & with some questionable additions. Still rotating herbs. Cold showers. Sleeping decent. Hanging outside. I did complete a 7 day water fast.

I’m not sure where I’m at recovery wise at this point, but I know damn sure I’d be fucking close to finished if I didn’t fall of the horse, shoot the fuckin horse, dig a grave for it & jump in. Everyone around me is telling me I’m doing so much better, I’m a lot more like my old self, etc. etc. and I’m stuck in this DP/DR’d glass box, playing with my little peen like a nervous kid, feeling like a shell of a human being most of the time.

I guess I’m here to mark a new chapter in my journey and hopefully gain a little traction in my next steps. Depression is a motherfucker in that it completely drains you of all motivation and ambition, even when it comes to avoiding PFS. I’m not staying – I still think avoiding this place & others is key to beating this, but I figured I’d give another (hopefully last, until recovered) update. I’m sitting on 4 bottles of UH – I’m considering giving them a run this summer. It could be what’s needed. It could also be what cements in my anhedonia for life (all you UH’ers always come back and say you have no feelings anymore). I’m also worried about low E, since mine has tested below range every time, except for the last, I’ve had bloods done. None of this matters until I change my environment & sort myself out first though.

Anyways – do as I say, not as I do. You know the drill, the way out is through. Don’t cheat, don’t give up, not even once. You guys got this.

Much love

Ratchet

Edit: Visiting PH did come with one benefit though – stumbling across and going through all of Bizbee’s posts. I can’t tell if he’s a genius or an idiot, but he’s funny as shit.

Do you know why it took me so long to recover? It wasn't because there wasn't a blue print to follow, although that did have a lot to do with it....but the main reason? I couldn't stop partying. I would make it a good stretch and then go HAM as a treat, when really it wasn't a treat at all, it was just time added to my sentence.

Listen man, you're only human. When you go for long stretches of time feeling......nothing, then when you get fucked up you feel something, it's tough to avoid, but avoid you must if you want out of the hell your in. THAT was the hardest part for me during recovery, just staying fucking sober.

But that's exactly the reason why I'm so vocal about it. You will recover that much faster by staying clean and not altering your state of consciousness for fun, even if it's the only respite you get from your symptoms. IT'S A TRAP. A trap that comes with a longer healing time and an uptick in symptoms. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

[Ratchet_V2]

Hey guys – figured I’d post this. When I started this fucked up journey I had lost about 10 pounds seemingly overnight. I went from 175 to 165. After fasting, I dropped all the way to 150. I’m now sitting at 177 and am stronger than I’ve ever been. I hit 225 for 15 on bench today and 135 for 50 last week. Did some other maxes recently too.

BP: 225x15, 135x50, 305x1
DL: 450
BS: 325
Power clean: 295
Power snatch: 205
Strict press: 195

Proud of how far I’ve come. Whenever I lift, I think of the wolf of wall street scene where he tells everyone that he wants them to solve their problems by getting rich. I think of CDs avatar railing a line of tongkat and telling me the same but instead of rich it’s jacked.

[Turnover25]

Hey guys – figured I’d post this. When I started this fucked up journey I had lost about 10 pounds seemingly overnight. I went from 175 to 165. After fasting, I dropped all the way to 150. I’m now sitting at 177 and am stronger than I’ve ever been. I hit 225 for 15 on bench today and 135 for 50 last week. Did some other maxes recently too.

BP: 225x15, 135x50, 305x1
DL: 450
BS: 325
Power clean: 295
Power snatch: 205
Strict press: 195

Proud of how far I’ve come. Whenever I lift, I think of the wolf of wall street scene where he tells everyone that he wants them to solve their problems by getting rich. I think of CDs avatar railing a line of tongkat and telling me the same but instead of rich it’s jacked.

You’re an animal my friend

[HOPE]

My brother, I’ve been reading your thread. Seeing as most of your symptoms have healed except your penile symptoms, I’d say give pelvic floor therapy/foam rolling a try. It seems that you may have developed pelvic floor dysfunction (and especially your reaction to the bath mate, which was neither from the bath mate or fin indicates this. It’s very common for guys with PFD/Hard Flaccid to get fucked from a bath mate as the area is so tight. I think incorporating this (I am too) into your recovery will bring you to your 100%. It’s possible you developed this as a result of excessive stress, launching your body into a state of fight or flight, in addition to excessive fapping. Give it a try, stay on the protocol. You will heal. I’m doing this at the moment as well, but have a juice feast to finish.

It’s imperative to know that your reaction to bath mate was due to a tight pelvic floor. I was in a discord for pelvic floor dysfunction, word for word, and that’s what causes that reaction. The pelvic floor dysfunction could also be mediated neurologically, which the protocol will fix. I’d still add in foam rolling, massage therapy, exercises to strengthen surrounding areas. These things will work hand-in-hand in the protocol.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey guys – figured I’d post this. When I started this fucked up journey I had lost about 10 pounds seemingly overnight. I went from 175 to 165. After fasting, I dropped all the way to 150. I’m now sitting at 177 and am stronger than I’ve ever been. I hit 225 for 15 on bench today and 135 for 50 last week. Did some other maxes recently too.

BP: 225x15, 135x50, 305x1
DL: 450
BS: 325
Power clean: 295
Power snatch: 205
Strict press: 195

Proud of how far I’ve come. Whenever I lift, I think of the wolf of wall street scene where he tells everyone that he wants them to solve their problems by getting rich. I think of CDs avatar railing a line of tongkat and telling me the same but instead of rich it’s jacked.

Lol....railing a line of tongkat....

Great job thus far man. You've come far, but there is still work to do. Just imagine how you will feel in another few months?

Keep up the good work. Great inspiration for others.

You'll be making the coveted recovery post sooner then later!

[Cdsnuts]

My brother, I’ve been reading your thread. Seeing as most of your symptoms have healed except your penile symptoms, I’d say give pelvic floor therapy/foam rolling a try. It seems that you may have developed pelvic floor dysfunction (and especially your reaction to the bath mate, which was neither from the bath mate or fin indicates this. It’s very common for guys with PFD/Hard Flaccid to get fucked from a bath mate as the area is so tight. I think incorporating this (I am too) into your recovery will bring you to your 100%. It’s possible you developed this as a result of excessive stress, launching your body into a state of fight or flight, in addition to excessive fapping. Give it a try, stay on the protocol. You will heal. I’m doing this at the moment as well, but have a juice feast to finish.

It’s imperative to know that your reaction to bath mate was due to a tight pelvic floor. I was in a discord for pelvic floor dysfunction, word for word, and that’s what causes that reaction. The pelvic floor dysfunction could also be mediated neurologically, which the protocol will fix. I’d still add in foam rolling, massage therapy, exercises to strengthen surrounding areas. These things will work hand-in-hand in the protocol.

I've been reading alot about this "pelvic floor dysfunction" simply from perusing the whatsapp group. The bottom line is, he will heal simply by continuing to do what he has been doing.

I have never even heard the term for this before this group.

I think you may have this a bit mixed up. The only way guys get "fucked" by the bathmate is by not using it carefully/properly and going to hard/to much suction, for their first couple sessions. THAT is common. There is a big learning curve in the beginning to using the unit properly. That being said, because the area is so under used and tight, the bathmate is the perfect thing to use to remedy this situation.

NOTHING is going to get blood into your little guy like the bathmate. Nothing. This is crucial for the reasons already mentioned a thousand times.

This is simply a matter of "going slower"......that's all.

I of course have no argument about doing the other ancillary work you mentioned, foam rolling, stretching, etc. It will all work towards fixing the issue.

[Ratchet_V2]

Hey guys, going to take the leap and start my first UH cycle tomorrow. I’m hoping some of the veterans here can answer a few quick Qs:

1) Am I good to apply this to my fat pad/pubic area and around my groin/base of dick? My fat pad is the only area of my body that I've really deposited fat onto since I crashed. It’s not an issue for me per se, but I think it’s reflective of something going on in that area of my body that I intuitively feel like UH would help to correct. Also, the base of my dick has seemingly eroded, for lack of a better word. It’s rotated on the axis, and I don’t really know how to explain it. It’s like a tree that lost the part of its trunk that gets wider as it nears the ground? Now it’s just a straight up tree, if not even a little concave at the base? I feel like androgens, especially applied topically in this area, would help. I have no scientific evidence or background to support this.

2) Am I good to start this cycle after a few weekends of drinking? I’ve had a few bachelor party weekends and just returned home from a 3-day wedding bender, obviously not ideal. I’ll be running TUDCA in congruence with the UH to cover my liver. Obviously the drinking isn’t ideal, but I’d like to squeeze this cycle in this month and next before I leave for a fishing trip in Panama end of July. I have a clean 7 weeks to dedicate to nothing else but the protocol, and it’s finally sunny and nice where I’m at, so it seems like the perfect time. This cycle would be 4-6 weeks. I’ll also remain sober after the cycle and have a plan in place for the herb rotation/PCT.

2) Are there any signs or symptoms that would indicate one to stop the cycle immediately? From what I’ve read, cycles vary for everyone, and i know that for some, things have to get worse before they get better. I’m operating under the mindset that I’m going to commit to at least 5 weeks and am expecting some turbulence, but I don’t want to push through anything that would actually be doing more harm than good. Im very sensitive to pine pollen (not in a good way) and only take it once in my rotation. Without fail, my PFS will rear it’s ugly head everytime I take it. Could be allergies. Could be the androsterone.

I plan on upping my carb intake about 50g-75g while on cycle. I also plan on drinking an adrenal cocktail once a day to help replenish and maintain sodium/potassium levels. For those that don’t know, it’s a cup of coconut water, 1/4 cup oj, and some redmond sea salt. Honestly pretty good. Other than that, it’s going to be business as usual.

For those who are curious, it’s hard to put a number on where I’m at % wise. The only remaining symptom that’s really detrimental to my well being at this point is my dick size. I lost a little length and I’d say a little over .5” in the girth, plus it’s rotated on its axis and has some weird dents and ribs in it now. I can’t tell if it’s stabilized or if it’s still getting worse. It’s honestly the main reason I’m running this cycle.

I still experience the vast array of symptoms that I’ve mentioned in the past, but the degree and frequency of them has become less and less and more and more sparse. if my dick were to magically resolve to its old state, I’d put myself at 90% of the way there.

Will check in early tomorrow, hopefully see some of your kind responses. Wish everyone the best in their recoveries – you will get there.

[Ratchet_V2]

Day 4. Started at 1 pump, then 2 pumps for two days. Going to give 3 a go and see what happens. I have a feeling 2-3 will be my sweet spot.

My vascularity and muscle hardness is already off the chain. It was noticeable by day 2. Slight libido/EQ increase on day two as well, but haven’t seen it since. Already experiencing some achy joints, couldn’t even skateboard cause my big toe hurt to push. Also, my sleep
Is definitely more fragmented. I’m only waking up 1-2x, which is fine, but I’m exhausted. It’s like I’m sleeping and reaping none of the benefits. Serious bags under my eyes. Other than that, some weird, vivid dreams cause I’m anxious about this whole thing, & that’s that.

Q: will I retain the body comp benefits of this cycle afterwards, or will I soften up, grow tits, and never be able to attain the natural body physique I had before cause of suppression? Or will my t explode?

[HOPE]

You shouldn’t worry about suppression from the prohormones. They’re in the protocol specifically for that reason (the goal of this protocol is to create the most androgenic version of you possible).

[Maxout777]

Day 4. Started at 1 pump, then 2 pumps for two days. Going to give 3 a go and see what happens. I have a feeling 2-3 will be my sweet spot.

My vascularity and muscle hardness is already off the chain. It was noticeable by day 2. Slight libido/EQ increase on day two as well, but haven’t seen it since. Already experiencing some achy joints, couldn’t even skateboard cause my big toe hurt to push. Also, my sleep
Is definitely more fragmented. I’m only waking up 1-2x, which is fine, but I’m exhausted. It’s like I’m sleeping and reaping none of the benefits. Serious bags under my eyes. Other than that, some weird, vivid dreams cause I’m anxious about this whole thing, & that’s that.

Q: will I retain the body comp benefits of this cycle afterwards, or will I soften up, grow tits, and never be able to attain the natural body physique I had before cause of suppression? Or will my t explode?

You’re going to have impacted sleep on these prohormones due to the effect on GABA. My sleep was always worse on cycle. Also, the remainder of your issues on this cycle scream low estrogen. If you can confirm this on a blood test, my recommendation would be to try Alpha Four. 4 Andro was a godsend to me on this journey as it kept me from having extremely low estrogen on prohormone cycles. I incorporated it on my third cycle during recovery.

[Outlaw]

Hey Ratchet I can attest to what Maxout is saying, my bloodtest showed low E so I'm on my 2nd week of Alpha Four. If you choose to do this, CD recommended me to keep an UltraHard bottle on the side to switch midcycle if necessary.

And Maxout, you say PH affect GABA. Since pfs-tinnitus is linked to low gaba, does this mean that I shouldnt expect PH to lower my tinnitus during the cycle, but maybe moreso during the snapback?

[Ratchet_V2]

You’re going to have impacted sleep on these prohormones due to the effect on GABA. My sleep was always worse on cycle. Also, the remainder of your issues on this cycle scream low estrogen. If you can confirm this on a blood test, my recommendation would be to try Alpha Four. 4 Andro was a godsend to me on this journey as it kept me from having extremely low estrogen on prohormone cycles. I incorporated it on my third cycle during recovery.

I have prior bloods, but nothing current.
Estradiol range: (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)

6/29/20: 12.9 pg/mL
9/24/20: 19.7 pg/mL
1/25/21: 21.1 pg/mL

My corresponding T (ng/dL) & Free T levels (pg/mL):

6/29/20: 390, 7.7
9/24/20: 472, 13.9
1/25/21: 702, 19.5

In reality, my E2 level is actually perfect right in the 20s, and it tracks with my T levels, so ratio seems good. I’ve just seen those lower end levels, so I know I’m prone to low E. I’ll continue to take it slow and evaluate as I go. Should I lay off the cruciferous veggies?

[Cdsnuts]

Day 4. Started at 1 pump, then 2 pumps for two days. Going to give 3 a go and see what happens. I have a feeling 2-3 will be my sweet spot.

My vascularity and muscle hardness is already off the chain. It was noticeable by day 2. Slight libido/EQ increase on day two as well, but haven’t seen it since. Already experiencing some achy joints, couldn’t even skateboard cause my big toe hurt to push. Also, my sleep
Is definitely more fragmented. I’m only waking up 1-2x, which is fine, but I’m exhausted. It’s like I’m sleeping and reaping none of the benefits. Serious bags under my eyes. Other than that, some weird, vivid dreams cause I’m anxious about this whole thing, & that’s that.

Q: will I retain the body comp benefits of this cycle afterwards, or will I soften up, grow tits, and never be able to attain the natural body physique I had before cause of suppression? Or will my t explode?

Is that something that you think I would recommend for you guys? Come on man.

[Cdsnuts]

I have prior bloods, but nothing current.
Estradiol range: (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)

6/29/20: 12.9 pg/mL
9/24/20: 19.7 pg/mL
1/25/21: 21.1 pg/mL

My corresponding T (ng/dL) & Free T levels (pg/mL):

6/29/20: 390, 7.7
9/24/20: 472, 13.9
1/25/21: 702, 19.5

In reality, my E2 level is actually perfect right in the 20s, and it tracks with my T levels, so ratio seems good. I’ve just seen those lower end levels, so I know I’m prone to low E. I’ll continue to take it slow and evaluate as I go. Should I lay off the cruciferous veggies?

No.

If you're running low, as Maxout suggested....and as I suggest, have a bottle of alpha 4 on hand. Keep the veggies, add estrogen.

[Ratchet_V2]

Day 10. 3-4 pumps seems to be the sweet spot. I haven’t tried 5 yet but will later on. Feeling generally good, nothing too crazy in either direction. A little more energy in the morning, a little more malaise towards the end of the day. Very mild joint aches in some areas, but nothing to worry about. I actually feel more fatigued in the gym, surprisingly. Flickers of some libido here and there. I’m sleeping fairly well, a few disturbances, but still waking up feeling tired, unlike before. Hair is more dry and straw-like, hoping it doesn’t start falling out – fuck it. Kind of already looking forward to jumping back on the herbs. The ‘alpha’ feeling everyone talks about is definitely a nice reminder of what I used to feel like, calm amidst the chaos. Not an anxious twat. Wish you boys all the best!

[Ratchet_V2]

Started dabbing a bit of UH on my big, thick shaft. I’ll let you guys know how it goes.

[HOPE]

Yo man. Saw your post, hmu I can link you a discord channel that has pretty much everything… but tbh, after a few experiences with Shiljait don’t really believe in the whole pelvic thing.

[Ratchet_V2]

Day 17. I’ve been applying 4 pumps w/ good results, as in low turbulence and general stability. I haven’t experienced anything crazy in either direction, but I’d say that my overall mood and day-to-day has been pretty good. I was able to quit nicotine this cycle, which I was hesitant about trying, since I’m normally a wreck after for an extended amount of time. This go around I only lost like two nights of sleep and I’m feeling pretty good with almost no brain fog (reason I was using it in the first place). The only negative I’ve noticed in the last few days is lack of morning wood.

My questions are the following:

1) Should I increase to 5 pumps, and if so, when?

2) a few guys lately have suggested going 4 weeks for the first cycle. I was going to do 5, but 4 is more appealing to me because ill be going on a fishing trip for a week in August and a trip with a girl for a week after that. I’d like to be back up and running by then, especially for the trip with the girl, so the more weeks of PCT I can fit in beforehand the better. 4 weeks would give me 12 days of PCT before fishing trip, 20 days before trip with girl. 5 weeks would give me 5 days before fishing trip, 13 days before girl.

Let me know!

Ratchet

[Ratchet_V2]

Day 21? Idk – feeling about the same still. Been waking up at full mast, although my sleep still blows. I’ve probably averaged 6 hours a night this cycle. Joints are starting to be a little more poppy, general fatigue towards the end of the day is starting to become more noticeable. Im going to try and run this bottle out this next week and call it at 4 weeks. I’ve enjoyed the cycle & think I’ll have another here in the future, plus I don’t want to overdo it before I head out on vacation. Im slightly worried that I won’t be able to get my herbs through customs, so I’m curious – how bad would it be if I came off cycle, PCT’d for a week and half, and then didn’t run anything for two weeks while on vacation? Im going to do everything I can to avoid that, but its a possibility…

Thanks guys, wish you all well.

Ratchet

[Ratchet_V2]

Also, hair is shedding like a motherfucker now. Is this a good sign?

[Maxout777]

Day 21? Idk – feeling about the same still. Been waking up at full mast, although my sleep still blows. I’ve probably averaged 6 hours a night this cycle. Joints are starting to be a little more poppy, general fatigue towards the end of the day is starting to become more noticeable. Im going to try and run this bottle out this next week and call it at 4 weeks. I’ve enjoyed the cycle & think I’ll have another here in the future, plus I don’t want to overdo it before I head out on vacation. Im slightly worried that I won’t be able to get my herbs through customs, so I’m curious – how bad would it be if I came off cycle, PCT’d for a week and half, and then didn’t run anything for two weeks while on vacation? Im going to do everything I can to avoid that, but its a possibility…

Thanks guys, wish you all well.

Ratchet

I've taken herbs through customs in multiple countries with little to no issue. You should be fine. Also, hair shedding is a good sign if that's something that you had pre-fin, in my opinion.

[Ratchet_V2]

I've taken herbs through customs in multiple countries with little to no issue. You should be fine. Also, hair shedding is a good sign if that's something that you had pre-fin, in my opinion.

Good to know, thanks! & it was the reason that I hopped on fin to begin with. The shedding started quick, I was on a self improvement kick, girlfriend was moving to town, the rest is history. Looking at pictures of two years ago, it’s crazy how much more hair I have now and how much my hairline returned. So I’d say it’s probably a good omen. I’m starting to have oily skin, a few zits, and hair growing between my eyebrows again too. All stuff I didn’t really notice was gone but used to be my normal.

[Maxout777]

Good to know, thanks! & it was the reason that I hopped on fin to begin with. The shedding started quick, I was on a self improvement kick, girlfriend was moving to town, the rest is history. Looking at pictures of two years ago, it’s crazy how much more hair I have now and how much my hairline returned. So I’d say it’s probably a good omen. I’m starting to have oily skin, a few zits, and hair growing between my eyebrows again too. All stuff I didn’t really notice was gone but used to be my normal.

Yeah this was similar to me, although I don’t have hair loss issues, I lost my overly oily skin and zits that would appear here and there, all gone after saw palmetto. As I recovered, they returned a bit. Never thought I’d be happy to see adult acne again.

[Ratchet_V2]

4 weeks + 2 days. Today is the last day of my cycle. I killed one can of UH. Feeling pretty good. Have been @ 5 pumps this last week. Taking a vacation the first two weeks of August. Planning on herbs until at least October. Might expand on my first cycle experience soon. My recommendation is to follow the protocol 100%, cycle during a period in your life w/ little stress and a lot of sun, slowly increase your dosage on cycle, and don’t overthink your cycle. I also drank what they call an adrenal cocktail everyday after reading the purported benefits of coconut water here. It’s basically 1 cup of coconut water, a 1/4 cup of organic OJ w/ no additives or pulp, and a 1/4 tsp of sea salt. It’s supposed to be good for balancing your sodium/potassium ratio, but I don’t know if that’s the case. Either way, it tastes good, adds some carbs for cycle, and is something nice to look forward to each day. Give it a go.

All the best,

Ratchet

[HOPE]

4 weeks + 2 days. Today is the last day of my cycle. I killed one can of UH. Feeling pretty good. Have been @ 5 pumps this last week. Taking a vacation the first two weeks of August. Planning on herbs until at least October. Might expand on my first cycle experience soon. My recommendation is to follow the protocol 100%, cycle during a period in your life w/ little stress and a lot of sun, slowly increase your dosage on cycle, and don’t overthink your cycle. I also drank what they call an adrenal cocktail everyday after reading the purported benefits of coconut water here. It’s basically 1 cup of coconut water, a 1/4 cup of organic OJ w/ no additives or pulp, and a 1/4 tsp of sea salt. It’s supposed to be good for balancing your sodium/potassium ratio, but I don’t know if that’s the case. Either way, it tastes good, adds some carbs for cycle, and is something nice to look forward to each day. Give it a go.

All the best,

Ratchet
Any benefits from your first cycle? By the way, how’s your anhedonia? It seems like me, you, Turnover had this symptom pretty hard. It’s been lifted once after a water fast, so I know it doesn’t have to be permanent, but I see that you’ve said your mental symptoms were gone, so would be great to hear of your experience with “anhedonia”. Such a crippling symptom

[Cdsnuts]

Just as an FYI....the pump wouldn't touch the pelvic floor.......at all. Nothing to worry about in that aspect. Over pumping is a different story, but still, would have NOTHING to do with your pelvic floor.

[Ratchet_V2]

Any benefits from your first cycle? By the way, how’s your anhedonia? It seems like me, you, Turnover had this symptom pretty hard. It’s been lifted once after a water fast, so I know it doesn’t have to be permanent, but I see that you’ve said your mental symptoms were gone, so would be great to hear of your experience with “anhedonia”. Such a crippling symptom

Hey Hope,

Definitely. I would say that, overall, the cycle was very beneficial, but in a wholistic way. Nothing specific resolved itself acutely, I just feel more well-rounded and generally better. One of the more notable things that I noticed, which I thought was interesting, was that it made quitting nicotine easier. I hopped off about a week in, and my withdrawal symptoms were significantly less severe than before. I was also expecting a wall of brain fog, like the other times that I put it down, and it never came. It felt like the UH just kept me cruising, and that has stuck around for the most part after my cycle.

In terms of anhedonia, I'd have to go back and look at my log, but I don't really identify with this symptom any more. I remember during the first half of my recovery, I would have 1-2 day spells where I was certainly anhedonic. Feeling nothing is a very distinct feeling, ironically. But these were also sometimes the result of nuclear fallouts from breakdowns and stress. I would say that I'm more emotionally blunted, but I think this is an indirect consequence of the ensuing trauma of this experience and not a direct result of fin. It's hard to feel anything in the context of PFS, especially when it consumes your every thought and bleeds through every experience you have in your waking life. The less I think about PFS, the more I begin to reconnect with my emotions and feel joy. That being said, too, I did have one day on cycle where I went for a walk during golden hour. It was such a beautiful experience that it actually brought tears to my eyes. I don't know if it was because it was so beautiful, or if it was because I felt connected to the world again and I realized how long I had gone without that feeling. Whether it was joy, mourning, sorrow, whatever, it was emotional and really nice. You're right, its not permanent. I believe it's one of those symptoms that has to be ignored and forgotten in order to move on and overcome it. I like to think about it like the Observer Effect. Or Schrodingers cat, kind of. Observing your emotions inherently changes them. Constantly fixating on this idea that you're unable to feel will cause you to, well, not feel. Looking into the box will kill the cat. Your energy is better spent clearing space in your life for you to be a happy person and not thinking about your anhedonia.

[Ratchet_V2]

Hey all,

I've been doing really well. To be succinct, if my dick miraculously returned to it's old self, I would consider myself 98% recovered. I still don't have the libido I used to, but I think this is more a function of being down because of my dick than it is just PFS at this point. I've come a long ways and look forward to writing a recovery some day. No shame, this post is a hail mary and is going to be completely about my manhood. Go ahead and close out if you don't want to read all things penis for the next five minutes.

I'm here writing this tonight in hopes that anyone who has experienced something similar can help or point me in the right direction. My dick has slowly regressed since the beginning, imperceptibly at first, and it hasn't really shown any sort of improvement in a long time. It may still be getting worse. Please bare with me as I try to describe this, it's proving pretty difficult.

I'm only speaking in terms of it's size, rigidity, and other seriously weird shit involving my pelvic floor and nuts. I'm able to obtain erections when I want, maintain them, and have sex without issue. NTEs and MW are more common than not now. My issues are the following:

I have lost measurable size on my john, primarily girth. I'm going to have a doppler/ultrasound done to eliminate the possibility of fibrosis and plaque, but my money is that it's one of those two causing this. I've developed ridge like dents? but not really dents, more like uniform ribs on both sides of my shaft. I honestly don't think this is plaque, as it's very uniform and only noticeable when erect. I think there is a possibility that these have also always been there, but are noticeable now with tissue loss. My erections are very hard but smaller, like the kind you would have on your third wank sesh of the day prior to PFS. I also have the occasional hourglassing when flaccid, but its not nearly as present anymore. Unfortunately, I think this has more to do with my unit being smaller than it does with whatever causes the hourglass going away. It usually only appears when I've got a chub going.

My whole pelvic floor is completely out of whack in every which way. The way my dick sits and hangs is just different. I used to think pelvic floor was a crock of shit, but after watching the ways my dick can contort and change just by laying a different direction or taking a shit, I've come to realize what a delicate system it really is. I don't really know where to start, so I'll just fire off. I can't flex or make my dick "jump" when flaccid or semi-erect like I used to. I can get it to move inwards, but it's really just me flexing my butthole moreso than anything else. When I have an erection, it stands at attention, so I know this isn't a suspensory issue, and I am able to make it "jump" then. My gucc feels like there is a baseball in it sometimes, and other times it feels completely depleted to the point that my gucc skin literally hangs down and I can flick it. No shit I thought I was growing a vagina at one point. The base of my penis feels weak, eroded, and concave, and it's definitely twisted on its axis. It feels like my pelvic floor dropped out in some areas and tightened in others. Really hard to explain.

Earlier in my recovery, I was definitely hard flaccid most of the time. This quietly went away, and now my dick is longer than it used to be flaccid, but also much skinnier and light. It also hangs lower and more straight down than out, so I don't have a bulge in my shorts when I run. It also goes rubbery if I shake it out too many times or masturbate. I basically feel like I have an 80 year olds dick attached to my pelvis, with the balls to go with it. My balls, like my gucc, like to vacillate between hanging super low and stretched out like a turkey neck to tucked up and tight. Rarely is there any in-between.

The fat pad under my pubes has also gained a lot of fat, which is also weird considering I'm leaner than I've ever been and in better shape than I've ever been. At this rate, I'm going to be a skinny dude with a FUPA.

All in all, I'm going to first and foremost try and just live with this as my new normal. Ironically, I think that's when it will revert back to its old self. Like the way an ex comes back the moment you've actually moved on. I'm also going to incorporate pelvic floor stretching and exercises daily in a way that meshes well with my current routine, and I'm going to look into other pumps, because I can't seem to make the bathmate work, especially with the way my dick and balls hang. If I do end up back with the bathmate, I'll have to fucking downsize it now.

I'm going to make a similar post over on the PE and Peyronie's forums to try and find some answers there as well.

I really appreciate your guys input, and I know whatever you have to say is better than whatever any urologist has ever told me during a 10 minute appointment. I'm very grateful to have overcome the worse side of PFS (imo neurological by far), but going from a sizeable piece to an average, teetering now on below average, one sucks. It really dictates my mental space and has made sexual encounters way less enjoyable. I don't want to end up 30 with an 80 year olds dick and a cuckold fetish. Cheers.

P.S. If you've read my thread and you'd like to know what has and hasn't worked for me re: anything, please feel free to inquire/respond here. I don't think it's possible or relevant to compare cases, but I've experienced the full gamut of sides associated with this shit to varying degrees, and I wouldn't classify my case as mild by any means. It's been almost two years of hard work, trial and error, dedication, learning, and hope and I'd love to share it with all of you. I don't plan on hanging around this place for too long, but I've said that before too.

[Brooks]

Hey all,

I've been doing really well. To be succinct, if my dick miraculously returned to it's old self, I would consider myself 98% recovered. I still don't have the libido I used to, but I think this is more a function of being down because of my dick than it is just PFS at this point. I've come a long ways and look forward to writing a recovery some day. No shame, this post is a hail mary and is going to be completely about my manhood. Go ahead and close out if you don't want to read all things penis for the next five minutes.

I'm here writing this tonight in hopes that anyone who has experienced something similar can help or point me in the right direction. My dick has slowly regressed since the beginning, imperceptibly at first, and it hasn't really shown any sort of improvement in a long time. It may still be getting worse. Please bare with me as I try to describe this, it's proving pretty difficult.

I'm only speaking in terms of it's size, rigidity, and other seriously weird shit involving my pelvic floor and nuts. I'm able to obtain erections when I want, maintain them, and have sex without issue. NTEs and MW are more common than not now. My issues are the following:

I have lost measurable size on my john, primarily girth. I'm going to have a doppler/ultrasound done to eliminate the possibility of fibrosis and plaque, but my money is that it's one of those two causing this. I've developed ridge like dents? but not really dents, more like uniform ribs on both sides of my shaft. I honestly don't think this is plaque, as it's very uniform and only noticeable when erect. I think there is a possibility that these have also always been there, but are noticeable now with tissue loss. My erections are very hard but smaller, like the kind you would have on your third wank sesh of the day prior to PFS. I also have the occasional hourglassing when flaccid, but its not nearly as present anymore. Unfortunately, I think this has more to do with my unit being smaller than it does with whatever causes the hourglass going away. It usually only appears when I've got a chub going.

My whole pelvic floor is completely out of whack in every which way. The way my dick sits and hangs is just different. I used to think pelvic floor was a crock of shit, but after watching the ways my dick can contort and change just by laying a different direction or taking a shit, I've come to realize what a delicate system it really is. I don't really know where to start, so I'll just fire off. I can't flex or make my dick "jump" when flaccid or semi-erect like I used to. I can get it to move inwards, but it's really just me flexing my butthole moreso than anything else. When I have an erection, it stands at attention, so I know this isn't a suspensory issue, and I am able to make it "jump" then. My gucc feels like there is a baseball in it sometimes, and other times it feels completely depleted to the point that my gucc skin literally hangs down and I can flick it. No shit I thought I was growing a vagina at one point. The base of my penis feels weak, eroded, and concave, and it's definitely twisted on its axis. It feels like my pelvic floor dropped out in some areas and tightened in others. Really hard to explain.

Earlier in my recovery, I was definitely hard flaccid most of the time. This quietly went away, and now my dick is longer than it used to be flaccid, but also much skinnier and light. It also hangs lower and more straight down than out, so I don't have a bulge in my shorts when I run. It also goes rubbery if I shake it out too many times or masturbate. I basically feel like I have an 80 year olds dick attached to my pelvis, with the balls to go with it. My balls, like my gucc, like to vacillate between hanging super low and stretched out like a turkey neck to tucked up and tight. Rarely is there any in-between.

The fat pad under my pubes has also gained a lot of fat, which is also weird considering I'm leaner than I've ever been and in better shape than I've ever been. At this rate, I'm going to be a skinny dude with a FUPA.

All in all, I'm going to first and foremost try and just live with this as my new normal. Ironically, I think that's when it will revert back to its old self. Like the way an ex comes back the moment you've actually moved on. I'm also going to incorporate pelvic floor stretching and exercises daily in a way that meshes well with my current routine, and I'm going to look into other pumps, because I can't seem to make the bathmate work, especially with the way my dick and balls hang. If I do end up back with the bathmate, I'll have to fucking downsize it now.

I'm going to make a similar post over on the PE and Peyronie's forums to try and find some answers there as well.

I really appreciate your guys input, and I know whatever you have to say is better than whatever any urologist has ever told me during a 10 minute appointment. I'm very grateful to have overcome the worse side of PFS (imo neurological by far), but going from a sizeable piece to an average, teetering now on below average, one sucks. It really dictates my mental space and has made sexual encounters way less enjoyable. I don't want to end up 30 with an 80 year olds dick and a cuckold fetish. Cheers.

P.S. If you've read my thread and you'd like to know what has and hasn't worked for me re: anything, please feel free to inquire/respond here. I don't think it's possible or relevant to compare cases, but I've experienced the full gamut of sides associated with this shit to varying degrees, and I wouldn't classify my case as mild by any means. It's been almost two years of hard work, trial and error, dedication, learning, and hope and I'd love to share it with all of you. I don't plan on hanging around this place for too long, but I've said that before too.

This is also one of my most suborn symptoms. You described it better than I could. Do you notice it gets more severe/worse when you’re in a downswing or stressed out?

I’ve only ran two cycles so far but I have noticed some improvements in those symptoms both times. Those improvements slide back annoyingly between cycles, especially if I hit a downswing. My balls were hanging beautifully for a long time during my last cycle which showed me it was related to DHT. Saw penis size improvements during it as well but hasn’t stuck a ton post-cycle. I think it improves marginally after each cycle though.

My personal opinion is that this is not caused by our pelvic floor. It definitely feels like it is though. I think it’s gene expression and possibly lack of DHT in the tissue sites down there.

I’ve only done UH so far but am gearing up for my first R-Andro in September. My plan is to pump, protocol and run cycles.

Haven’t many others recovered girth/size loss, fucked up flaccid and ball tucking? I feel like it’s just an extra stubborn one for us “lucky” guys, Ratchet

[HOPE]

Changing erections by positions, alternating between hard flaccid and long flaccid, loss of size and girth, hourglass, balls either stuck to your body and or completely hung down.

This is CPPS brother.
You’re in very good shape, so I’m sure doing DCT or a similar routine for 6-9 months will bring you back from the dead.
Hmu. I already sent you a DM - before entering down the PSSD rabbit hole, I went down the HF/CPPS one. It is indeed what you suffer from, but it could be aggravated by gene expression related to fin, so simply continue the protocol, and add in the resistance stretching at night. I promise you’ll post your recovery story in a year’s time max.

Please, Ratchet, don’t ignore this. Seeing you try to figure out what it is when it’s so clearly obvious hurts me as I struggle deeply with PSSD. IMO, pelvic floor therapy should be added to the protocol.

[Ratchet_V2]

This is also one of my most suborn symptoms. You described it better than I could. Do you notice it gets more severe/worse when you’re in a downswing or stressed out?

I’ve only ran two cycles so far but I have noticed some improvements in those symptoms both times. Those improvements slide back annoyingly between cycles, especially if I hit a downswing. My balls were hanging beautifully for a long time during my last cycle which showed me it was related to DHT. Saw penis size improvements during it as well but hasn’t stuck a ton post-cycle. I think it improves marginally after each cycle though.

My personal opinion is that this is not caused by our pelvic floor. It definitely feels like it is though. I think it’s gene expression and possibly lack of DHT in the tissue sites down there.

I’ve only done UH so far but am gearing up for my first R-Andro in September. My plan is to pump, protocol and run cycles.

Haven’t many others recovered girth/size loss, fucked up flaccid and ball tucking? I feel like it’s just an extra stubborn one for us “lucky” guys, Ratchet


Hey Brooks,

I think it's a symptom of both a dysfunctional pelvic floor and what you sort of alluded to re: gene expression and hormonal dysregulation. Stress definitely exacerbates my symptoms and it's definitely worse in a downswing. My downswings however, knock on wood, have honestly become mild to the point that I don't experience everything all at once like I used to, but in different systems at different times i.e sexually I'm more fucked up, but mentally and otherwise good, or visa versa. I think I've reached a level of the rubiks cube where my body is still sorting things out but it doesn't have to undergo insane shifts to get there, if that makes any sense. My dick and pelvic floor are all over the place all of the time though, and I'd say so in a negative way most days.

I haven't experienced anywhere close to my old size in a long time, even when I'm feeling really good generally, and I honestly can't remember what my penis prior to PFS felt or looked like. I had numbers prior to PFS, and I measured periodically throughout my journey with it, so I know its regressed, but it's really just numbers on a piece of paper at this point. I think to reclaim my old size I'll definitely need to push it in that direction with a VED, I don't think it will come back on its own even once everything sorts itself out. I hope I'm wrong though!

It's hard to say re: others who have recovered. I've scoured PH and the PE forums, and its hard to distinguish between erect size loss and shrinkage (which by my definition, is the size of your hanging flaccid). I think a lot of guys who claimed that shrinkage reversed were referring to the latter. There are a few guys who lost significant girth and some length and were only able to recover a little with a lot of PE, if anything. Fucked up flaccid and ball tucking for sure though.

Let me know how your R-Andro run goes. I'm potentially going to run another cycle in December.

[Ratchet_V2]

Changing erections by positions, alternating between hard flaccid and long flaccid, loss of size and girth, hourglass, balls either stuck to your body and or completely hung down.

This is CPPS brother.
You’re in very good shape, so I’m sure doing DCT or a similar routine for 6-9 months will bring you back from the dead.
Hmu. I already sent you a DM - before entering down the PSSD rabbit hole, I went down the HF/CPPS one. It is indeed what you suffer from, but it could be aggravated by gene expression related to fin, so simply continue the protocol, and add in the resistance stretching at night. I promise you’ll post your recovery story in a year’s time max.

Please, Ratchet, don’t ignore this. Seeing you try to figure out what it is when it’s so clearly obvious hurts me as I struggle deeply with PSSD. IMO, pelvic floor therapy should be added to the protocol.

Hey HOPE,

Did you send a DM to my original account? I forgot the password/recovery stuff for it, so I just use this one now, and I don't see anything in my inbox.

I haven't read any good reviews of DCT, especially relative to it's price. I definitely plan on focusing on the floor moving forward. I'm going to renew my yoga membership, include some targeted pelvic floor stretching at night, and try and learn more exercises that will strengthen it where it needs it and bring it back into balance. I'm also looking into other VEDs that are a little more rehabilitation oriented, like the SOMA, and see if I can make any improvements with that before going back to the bathmate. At the very least, I feel like it would be a good warm up and transition into size oriented pumping.

[Ratchet_V2]

In the middle of East of Eden by Steinbeck. Great read. Thought of everyone while reading this:

‘In human affairs of danger and delicacy successful conclusion is sharply limited by hurry. So often men trip by being in a rush. If one were properly to perform a difficult and subtle act, he should first inspect the end to be achieved and then, once he had accepted the end as desirable, he should forget it completely and concentrate solely on the means. By this method he would not be moved to false action by anxiety or hurry or fear. Very few people learn this.’

You guys are in good hands – keep going.

Best,

Ratchet

[Ratchet_V2]

Merry Christmas all – some good news! I measured my piece the other day and it’s gotten bigger. It seems I’ve added almost .25” in girth since the last time I checked, which is a fairly substantial amount based on the PE forums I’ve read. I haven’t even started traction/pump yet, but I plan on starting traction here soon since I’ll start working from home and will have the time. I already have the PMP, just need to learn how to use it. That should do it. If I can add another .25” I’ll consider this shit done. I have been intermittently taking 2.5 mg of cialis, usually every other day, to facilitate better NTEs. I still have them almost every night now without the cialis, but the cialis definitely amps them up a little bit. Anyways, further proof that none of this is permanent and improvements can always be made. FYI – I measured a completely natural erection after taking a 3-day break from cialis, so I’m fairly confident the new size is here to stay. Also, I’ve been eating dairy again. I never had issues with dairy prior to PFS, but I cut it out (A1 cow dairy) for almost two years. I’ve been eating some hefty amounts of ice cream and cheese these past few months with no issues. I forgot how much I loved real ice cream. For anyone who doesn’t do well with A1 dairy, try La Loos goat milk vanilla ice cream. Goat is A2. It’s honestly as good, if not better, than normal cream. It has a really sound ingredient profile too and is what I used before reintroducing cow shit.

I’ll see you all in 2022 – keep at it.

Best,

Ratchet

[Turnover25]

Merry Christmas all – some good news! I measured my piece the other day and it’s gotten bigger. It seems I’ve added almost .25” in girth since the last time I checked, which is a fairly substantial amount based on the PE forums I’ve read. I haven’t even started traction/pump yet, but I plan on starting traction here soon since I’ll start working from home and will have the time. I already have the PMP, just need to learn how to use it. That should do it. If I can add another .25” I’ll consider this shit done. I have been intermittently taking 2.5 mg of cialis, usually every other day, to facilitate better NTEs. I still have them almost every night now without the cialis, but the cialis definitely amps them up a little bit. Anyways, further proof that none of this is permanent and improvements can always be made. FYI – I measured a completely natural erection after taking a 3-day break from cialis, so I’m fairly confident the new size is here to stay. Also, I’ve been eating dairy again. I never had issues with dairy prior to PFS, but I cut it out (A1 cow dairy) for almost two years. I’ve been eating some hefty amounts of ice cream and cheese these past few months with no issues. I forgot how much I loved real ice cream. For anyone who doesn’t do well with A1 dairy, try La Loos goat milk vanilla ice cream. Goat is A2. It’s honestly as good, if not better, than normal cream. It has a really sound ingredient profile too and is what I used before reintroducing cow shit.

I’ll see you all in 2022 – keep at it.

Best,

Ratchet

Glad to see you’re doing well man. One thing I’d suggest is drop the sugar and ice cream until you fully heal, I can attest that it absolutely hinders progress. I started to feel better then added ice cream to my diet for about 9 months, then realized the hard way that I hadn’t made an ounce of progress that entire time. I’d indulge after you’re done.