18 year old's road to recovery

[ethanrecovering]

Hi guys, I found out about this site recently and it's made me feel hopeful for the first time in months. I took fin at 17 years old from September to mid October 2019 and quit after getting ed and sensitive nipples on it. The usual followed, got better for a couple weeks and then crashed on November 5, 2019. My penis got small and shriveled up in an hour glass and bent to the left, I had brain fog, no erections, stomach pains, bad sleep, etc. What's weird is everything got better until January when I felt pains in my face. I lost a ton of fat on my face, and my cheeks and eyes sunk in. Other things rolled in as time has gone on, while other things have passed.
These are my current symptoms: -Muscle wastage / softer muscles (skinnier arms, butt, and neck)
-Bloating
-Weaker erections (can still get rock hard during sex but not masturbation)
-Penis curved to left
-Mild Eye floaters
-Occasional pain in random areas of my body (possibly bone, not too bad)
-Occasional twitches
-Very very mild brain fog sometimes
-Gum recession
-Worst of all, my facial changes: fat loss, sunken eyes and cheeks, smaller chin, possibly smaller nose?, dry skin, loose skin that I can pull, aging, wrinkles under eyes and around mouth, crows feet, smaller face overall)
So as you can see I'm hit pretty badly on the physical end. I haven't seen guys with what the facial issues who've recovered (I'm sure there are), so I'm really hoping that can be fixed. if anyone has the facial changes and recovered please let me know, it's the most upsetting side for me.
But anyway, I'm so happy to have found this site as I was getting super depressed reading the doom and gloom of propeciahelp. I'm gonna be starting on the protocol really soon, once I can get everything for a juice feast. I've already started a paleo diet and cold showers. I'll keep you guys updated!

[Cdsnuts]

Hi guys, I found out about this site recently and it's made me feel hopeful for the first time in months. I took fin at 17 years old from September to mid October 2019 and quit after getting ed and sensitive nipples on it. The usual followed, got better for a couple weeks and then crashed on November 5, 2019. My penis got small and shriveled up in an hour glass and bent to the left, I had brain fog, no erections, stomach pains, bad sleep, etc. What's weird is everything got better until January when I felt pains in my face. I lost a ton of fat on my face, and my cheeks and eyes sunk in. Other things rolled in as time has gone on, while other things have passed.
These are my current symptoms: -Muscle wastage / softer muscles (skinnier arms, butt, and neck)
-Bloating
-Weaker erections (can still get rock hard during sex but not masturbation)
-Penis curved to left
-Mild Eye floaters
-Occasional pain in random areas of my body (possibly bone, not too bad)
-Occasional twitches
-Very very mild brain fog sometimes
-Gum recession
-Worst of all, my facial changes: fat loss, sunken eyes and cheeks, smaller chin, possibly smaller nose?, dry skin, loose skin that I can pull, aging, wrinkles under eyes and around mouth, crows feet, smaller face overall)
So as you can see I'm hit pretty badly on the physical end. I haven't seen guys with what the facial issues who've recovered (I'm sure there are), so I'm really hoping that can be fixed. if anyone has the facial changes and recovered please let me know, it's the most upsetting side for me.
But anyway, I'm so happy to have found this site as I was getting super depressed reading the doom and gloom of propeciahelp. I'm gonna be starting on the protocol really soon, once I can get everything for a juice feast. I've already started a paleo diet and cold showers. I'll keep you guys updated!

There most definitely are. As a matter of fact, here is one that just came in: Skin, Bone Muscle (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3912)

[ethanrecovering]

There most definitely are. As a matter of fact, here is one that just came in: Skin, Bone Muscle (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3912)
Thanks for the reply CD. I saw that thread when it came out, absolutely incredible. Definitely got me in a better mood, and his physical state was 3x worse than mine too. I'm already on the paleo diet and exercise routine as of last week and feel like I have more energy than before. Also got some pimples on my face after having a dry face for months.
The big thing I'm trying to do is convince my mom to let me juice feast for 7 days so I can REALLY get into the protocol. She wants me to only do it for 3 cause she says I'm young and too skinny for extended periods. Gonna keep trying to convince her, then I'll move on to talking to her about the herbs. Will keep you updated.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the reply CD. I saw that thread when it came out, absolutely incredible. Definitely got me in a better mood, and his physical state was 3x worse than mine too. I'm already on the paleo diet and exercise routine as of last week and feel like I have more energy than before. Also got some pimples on my face after having a dry face for months.
The big thing I'm trying to do is convince my mom to let me juice feast for 7 days so I can REALLY get into the protocol. She wants me to only do it for 3 cause she says I'm young and too skinny for extended periods. Gonna keep trying to convince her, then I'll move on to talking to her about the herbs. Will keep you updated.

Listen....if your mother wants to speak to me, pm me. We can make arrangements. On the house.

[ethanrecovering]

Been on most of the protocol for just over a week now. Gonna start a juice feast real soon and then will start the herbs. I've noticed more energy, a bit of a healthier looking face, and some pimples on my face. Skin does continue to worsen on face, but I figure that'll get under control once I start the fast and herbs. I think the fast will do wonders for my face issues.

[Cdsnuts]

Been on most of the protocol for just over a week now. Gonna start a juice feast real soon and then will start the herbs. I've noticed more energy, a bit of a healthier looking face, and some pimples on my face. Skin does continue to worsen on face, but I figure that'll get under control once I start the fast and herbs. I think the fast will do wonders for my face issues.

Keep in mind, this is a long game. A marathon, not a sprint. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't happen at your intended time frame, because it NEVER does.

TIME + CONSISTENCY = RESULTS.

[ethanrecovering]

Starting a 3 day juice feast today. I'll go on longer if I can but this is what my family is comfortable with for now. Will keep you guys updated.

[Cooper]

Im 21 and going to start CD's protocol too. But i am wondering which supplements to use. I can't have all of thise supplements on your site. Is there a way to pick the most useful 6-8 of them? I also can't find R-Andro in my country. What can i do? Cdsnuts

[Cdsnuts]

Im 21 and going to start CD's protocol too. But i am wondering which supplements to use. I can't have all of thise supplements on your site. Is there a way to pick the most useful 6-8 of them? I also can't find R-Andro in my country. What can i do? Cdsnuts

Cooper.....stop spamming the board. You keep asking the same question over and over again when you have a website that clearly tells you what to do.

[Cooper]

Cooper.....stop spamming the board. You keep asking the same question over and over again when you have a website that clearly tells you what to do.

I feel like you keep dodging my questions. I have already read your website. But they are too much of supplements there, im looking to buy the 7 best of them, that's all i could do. And i don't have acsess to R-Andro. Is this necessary? I am going to joing gym this week. Also how much juiciefast should i do? I really can't do a 21 day one. Is 3 is ok too?

[Cdsnuts]

I feel like you keep dodging my questions. I have already read your website. But they are too much of supplements there, im looking to buy the 7 best of them, that's all i could do. And i don't have acsess to R-Andro. Is this necessary? I am going to joing gym this week. Also how much juiciefast should i do? I really can't do a 21 day one. Is 3 is ok too?

Cooper...I don't dodge questions...as a matter of fact, I've answered your question probably a hundred other times through out the development of TMO and this forum. Your job, is to read what I wrote, if in fact you want to better yourself and ONLY if you want to better yourself.

This may come across a bit crass to others who are reading this for the first time, but the issue is you just keep asking simple questions that have been answered ad nauseum over the past seven or eight years of me posting on this forum. Not only that, but now you have decided to ask the same question, on someone elses months old thread....an 18yr olds, month long thread.

I could at this point have simply answered your question and it would have taken me less time then writing this response, but had I done that, you would have ultimately had to end up asking me another one that could have been easily answered.

I'm not being a hard ass here, but I've learned over the years what works, and what doesn't. If you're having this much trouble getting started and are questioning so many things already, you're going to have a rough go of it my man. What is listed, is what works. It doesn't matter whether you think there are too many supplements....lol.

You need to READ.

[ethanrecovering]

Hey everyone. I've been inactive for a long time now. No other way to put it other than I didn't commit to the protocol. Stuck with it for a few months but then dropped off and got comfortable. Ate like crap and didn't work out. In December I had my worst crash since the initial one. Extreme shaking/tremors, muscle weakness, tired face, new floaters, no erections, extreme anxiety (can't look at people in the eye). The shaking, particularly in the hands, isn't getting any better since then. Deciding now I need to do this and stick to it. No excuses. Started the paleo diet + exercise today and plan on buying the supplements once I get my next check. Will be juggling the protocol and college classes at the same time but this will definitely make me a tougher person in the end. Will update regularly.

[ethanrecovering]

1601 Thought it might be worth showing my bloodwork. Extremely deficient in LH / Estrogen among other things. This is from this past October.

[Maxout777]

I don't see you being deficient in LH here, to be honest. I see estrogen is low. TSH is high. Those are the two worst on your test there.

[ethanrecovering]

This is kind of weird... I woke up today and my face looks awful ... as bad as it looked at its worst which hasn't happened in almost a year. I can see the cheekbone again and my cheeks are sunken and my eyes look so tired. My face looked close to normal last month. I felt this clogged ear feeling yesterday too that I felt when my face first went to crap but I didn't think much of it. My gums feel weird and my nipple aches a bit. Feels like I'm back at square one. This is definitely discouraging... idk if its because my body is getting used to this protocol?

[Cdsnuts]

This is kind of weird... I woke up today and my face looks awful ... as bad as it looked at its worst which hasn't happened in almost a year. I can see the cheekbone again and my cheeks are sunken and my eyes look so tired. My face looked close to normal last month. I felt this clogged ear feeling yesterday too that I felt when my face first went to crap but I didn't think much of it. My gums feel weird and my nipple aches a bit. Feels like I'm back at square one. This is definitely discouraging... idk if its because my body is getting used to this protocol?

Regardless of what it is, the answer is always going to be the same. STAY on the protocol 100%. Buckle up and just go for the ride. You're going to have ups, downs, sideways and more, but you HAVE to stay consistent.

[ethanrecovering]

Gonna list my current sides here so I can track my progress as I go:
-Face changes (sunken eyes and cheeks, fine lines and wrinkles, aging skin, smaller jaw)
-Stiff fingers
-Mild ED
-Erections not lasting when I don't touch them for 5 seconds
-Mild brain fog
-Cracking joints
-Fat loss around wrists/forearms/neck
-Bloating
-Gum pain / recession
-Loose teeth
-Aging skin on hands, forearms, around neck
-Bad sleep (not rested, waking up, dark circles)
-Not full balls
-Indescribable unpleasant sensation around fingers, arms
-Dry eyes/bloodshot
-Anxiety(shaking)/Depression
-Weak voice
-Muscle weakness
BTW, does anyone have a preference on which of the herbs are the best? I work minimum wage part time so I can really only buy the minimum amount of herbs needed unfortunately. Thanks.

[Maxout777]

Gonna list my current sides here so I can track my progress as I go:
-Face changes (sunken eyes and cheeks, fine lines and wrinkles, aging skin, smaller jaw)
-Stiff fingers
-Mild ED
-Erections not lasting when I don't touch them for 5 seconds
-Mild brain fog
-Cracking joints
-Fat loss around wrists/forearms/neck
-Bloating
-Gum pain / recession
-Loose teeth
-Aging skin on hands, forearms, around neck
-Bad sleep (not rested, waking up, dark circles)
-Not full balls
-Indescribable unpleasant sensation around fingers, arms
-Dry eyes/bloodshot
-Anxiety(shaking)/Depression
-Weak voice
-Muscle weakness
BTW, does anyone have a preference on which of the herbs are the best? I work minimum wage part time so I can really only buy the minimum amount of herbs needed unfortunately. Thanks.

This is a hard question to answer given that everyone has different makeup and responds to different things - but, looks like you have similar issues I did and most of your symptoms correlate to either low estrogen or non-bioavailable estrogen. Given that, I always responded well to He Shou Wu, Schisandra, Cistanche, Cordyceps, Tongkat Ali, Eluthero, and Shilajit. All of these boost either LH or Testosterone directly, and this will help with some aromatization to estrogen.

[Cdsnuts]

This is a hard question to answer given that everyone has different makeup and responds to different things - but, looks like you have similar issues I did and most of your symptoms correlate to either low estrogen or non-bioavailable estrogen. Given that, I always responded well to He Shou Wu, Schisandra, Cistanche, Cordyceps, Tongkat Ali, Eluthero, and Shilajit. All of these boost either LH or Testosterone directly, and this will help with some aromatization to estrogen.

Agreed.

[ethanrecovering]

This is a hard question to answer given that everyone has different makeup and responds to different things - but, looks like you have similar issues I did and most of your symptoms correlate to either low estrogen or non-bioavailable estrogen. Given that, I always responded well to He Shou Wu, Schisandra, Cistanche, Cordyceps, Tongkat Ali, Eluthero, and Shilajit. All of these boost either LH or Testosterone directly, and this will help with some aromatization to estrogen.
Thank you for this answer Maxout, I appreciate it. I'll look into these. I hear Butea is very good, have you had success with it?

[ethanrecovering]

Just bought some kefir and bone broth as I hear those are good for healing the gut. I definitely think I have a few gut issues as my stomach gets really upset from eating certain things which never happened. Also just signed up for a retro fitness gym. To be honest my shaking has subsided mostly and I haven't gotten brain fog even though its only been a few days of paleo, exercise, breathing, cold showers, and no fap.

[Cdsnuts]

Just bought some kefir and bone broth as I hear those are good for healing the gut. I definitely think I have a few gut issues as my stomach gets really upset from eating certain things which never happened. Also just signed up for a retro fitness gym. To be honest my shaking has subsided mostly and I haven't gotten brain fog even though its only been a few days of paleo, exercise, breathing, cold showers, and no fap.

The protocol is a very powerful formula when done correctly. You may have an easy case, you may not. Either way, the answer is the same. What it comes down to then is TIME.

[ethanrecovering]

Not sure if this is related to the protocol or not but I've had to urinate much more frequently the last week or two. Like a significant amount. I am drinking more water than before but still seems excessive.

[Cdsnuts]

Not sure if this is related to the protocol or not but I've had to urinate much more frequently the last week or two. Like a significant amount. I am drinking more water than before but still seems excessive.

Well, drinking more water in and of itself will cause this, obviously. But also cutting down on carbs will have your body dumping more water then usual until it balances out. Carbs make the body hold more water.

[ethanrecovering]

Well, drinking more water in and of itself will cause this, obviously. But also cutting down on carbs will have your body dumping more water then usual until it balances out. Carbs make the body hold more water.

Ah okay that makes sense, thanks. It's gone down since then pretty much so this is definitely it.

- - - Updated - - -

Just wondering if shaky hands/fingers is a PFS symptom? Been experiencing it the past couple months. My hands will shake when I'm holding something light in front of me. Or if I stretch out my fingers like a high five then the fingers will be all shaky. Been told its due to muscle weakness and lack of sedation.

[MungYarlon]

Ah okay that makes sense, thanks. It's gone down since then pretty much so this is definitely it.

- - - Updated - - -

Just wondering if shaky hands/fingers is a PFS symptom? Been experiencing it the past couple months. My hands will shake when I'm holding something light in front of me. Or if I stretch out my fingers like a high five then the fingers will be all shaky. Been told its due to muscle weakness and lack of sedation.

I'm pretty sure that's normal my guy. I feel you're over thinking it a bit here. Better biomarkers for lack of sedation are things such as insomnia, and regarding muscle weakness, I heavily doubt your hands are too weak to hold light objects. It's more likely to be a case of anxiety/worry.

[Cdsnuts]

I'm pretty sure that's normal my guy. I feel you're over thinking it a bit here. Better biomarkers for lack of sedation are things such as insomnia, and regarding muscle weakness, I heavily doubt your hands are too weak to hold light objects. It's more likely to be a case of anxiety/worry.

Not necessarily. It could very well be a symptom of low allo levels in the brain causing an increase in anxiety. I used to shake pretty bad.

[ethanrecovering]

Not necessarily. It could very well be a symptom of low allo levels in the brain causing an increase in anxiety. I used to shake pretty bad.
Thing is I notice it even when I dont feel anxious although it does get worse when I feel more anxious. I guess Anxiety is likely always there to some extent with PFS. Either way, same way to improve it as any other symptom.
Aside from all that the protocol is going well. My arms are feeling a lot more full and look better, and I haven't added herbs yet. Still saving up so I can buy 7 or so at once.

[Cdsnuts]

Thing is I notice it even when I dont feel anxious although it does get worse when I feel more anxious. I guess Anxiety is likely always there to some extent with PFS. Either way, same way to improve it as any other symptom.
Aside from all that the protocol is going well. My arms are feeling a lot more full and look better, and I haven't added herbs yet. Still saving up so I can buy 7 or so at once.

In the beginning, yes, the anxiety is always present....lurking in the background, effecting interpersonal interactions and ability to feel contentment among other uncomfortable things. Personally for me, it alway felt as if I was waiting for something bad to happen any minute. Relaxation was impossible.

You know, you don't have to wait until you can afford all seven at once. The sooner you get started, the sooner things start coming together. You can buy one or two a week or so. Just cycle what you have until you hit your number. So you may only by cycling one or two herbs once a week instead of the full seven....As you add to your stash, you'll be able to feel the difference as the number of your herbs you're cycling starts getting hyer

People think once they get to a certain point they're going to feel some type of miraculous recovery. Unfortunately it doesn't work like this. Your body, picks and chooses what it fixes first.......The only thing we can do is be consistent and provide it with the correct inputs.

[Mojo]

People think once they get to a certain point they're going to feel some type of miraculous recovery. Unfortunately it doesn't work like this. Your body, picks and chooses what it fixes first.......The only thing we can do is be consistent and provide it with the correct inputs.

This is what sets this forum apart from others. Elsewhere people are trying something some other person has done to recover and expect to instantly feel better. They might have a good day due to placebo or what not and then get bad again and continue to discard something that may have helped them in the long run.

I get the shakes when I do wim hoff during highly anxious moments. During the breath hold my whole body just starts to shake violently for some reason. Try not to worry about it and just notice it as a curiosity.

[Cdsnuts]

This is what sets this forum apart from others. Elsewhere people are trying something some other person has done to recover and expect to instantly feel better. They might have a good day due to placebo or what not and then get bad again and continue to discard something that may have helped them in the long run.

I get the shakes when I do wim hoff during highly anxious moments. During the breath hold my whole body just starts to shake violently for some reason. Try not to worry about it and just notice it as a curiosity.

That's normal, believe it or not.

Doesn't happen anymore, but in the beginning, if anyone were to see me, they would have probably called 911 thinking I was seizing. The best thing you can do is go with it.....just let it happen. It's supposed to. It's cleansing.

And yes, too many guys just don't give it long enough.....I get it.....but it's the only thing that's gonna do it.

[ethanrecovering]

I'm around a month in on everything but herbs so far. My girlfriend offered to get me some for my birthday in a couples weeks lol so I'll be starting then. Overall I haven't seen any changes in anything, maybe feel slightly more anxious. Sometimes I feel like my face looks ok, some days it looks awful and aged along with the jawline. It's definitely a knock on my confidence but I understand its part of the process.

[ethanrecovering]

Also maybe worth noting, something I found weird last night was I had two strong full body jerks while trying to fall asleep. Like when you're in that stage where youre half asleep I was woken up with a quick jerk and racing heart. (its different from the common feeling where you feel like your falling, it was more strong) Don't know what could be causing that besides anxiety. Anyone else had this?

[Mojo]

Also maybe worth noting, something I found weird last night was I had two strong full body jerks while trying to fall asleep. Like when you're in that stage where youre half asleep I was woken up with a quick jerk and racing heart. (its different from the common feeling where you feel like your falling, it was more strong) Don't know what could be causing that besides anxiety. Anyone else had this?

It’s most likely anxiety. But it is probably worth checking out if u have sleep apnea. Ask your girlfriend if you snore a lot. Could be your body violently wakes up because it’s not getting oxygen. Try sleeping on your side if you are a back sleeper.

I’ve had similar things happen to me in the form of anxiety attacks right at the moment of dozing off. Once I got my anxiety under control it went away.

[Cdsnuts]

Just pfs.....

And good for your girl! Get them herbs!

You're not going to notice or feel much of anything for a few months......just an fyi. You may definitely get some slight relief of some symptoms...just enough to show you that you're going in the right direction and to keep going.

[ethanrecovering]

Just pfs.....

And good for your girl! Get them herbs!

You're not going to notice or feel much of anything for a few months......just an fyi. You may definitely get some slight relief of some symptoms...just enough to show you that you're going in the right direction and to keep going.
Yeah I'm thinking once I add in the herbs I'll get some brief relief of symptoms to show I'm in the right direction. My collection is now somewhat respectable. Have Maca, tongkat Ali, gingko, and my gf got me rhodiola and ashwaganda today. Looked for the ones @maxout recommended me but couldn't find them at the store. Will have to order online.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I'm thinking once I add in the herbs I'll get some brief relief of symptoms to show I'm in the right direction. My collection is now somewhat respectable. Have Maca, tongkat Ali, gingko, and my gf got me rhodiola and ashwaganda today. Looked for the ones @maxout recommended me but couldn't find them at the store. Will have to order online.

FYI....there is a reason lost empire herbs is used. QUALITY. I know the links on some of them need to be fixed, but the ones you CAN get from LEH, you should.

[Michael]

Why didnt you jump on the herbs as soon as finishing the waterfast? Without herbs the protocol seems like 30%? Even less? Your symptoms are identical to mine, I am currently waterfasting. Loose skin and smaller face too

[Cdsnuts]

Why didnt you jump on the herbs as soon as finishing the waterfast? Without herbs the protocol seems like 30%? Even less? Your symptoms are identical to mine, I am currently waterfasting. Loose skin and smaller face too

That's not really an accurate statement. The herbs are just one aspect of a much larger protocol. The protocol is definitely more then "30%" without the herbs if you're doing the whole thing.

And it's good to refeed for a few weeks before immediately jumping back on the herbs after a cleanse. You want to build your body up a bit first

[ethanrecovering]

Update: Was doing pretty decently in April, rotating herbs, eating well, working out, had my 19th bday. Unfortunately my gf of two years broke up with me in the beginning of may and its I fell off after that. It's been really hard as she's was my best friend and number one supporter helping me get out of the worst times. Had a stress crash from it and my face looks worse again and getting heart palpitations and anxiety and the like. Getting my life back on track now and getting back on it.
BTW, is losing a defined jawline a PFS symptom? I feel like my jawline has gotten weaker but I dont know if im imagining it. I feel really ugly right now lol

[Cdsnuts]

Update: Was doing pretty decently in April, rotating herbs, eating well, working out, had my 19th bday. Unfortunately my gf of two years broke up with me in the beginning of may and its I fell off after that. It's been really hard as she's was my best friend and number one supporter helping me get out of the worst times. Had a stress crash from it and my face looks worse again and getting heart palpitations and anxiety and the like. Getting my life back on track now and getting back on it.
BTW, is losing a defined jawline a PFS symptom? I feel like my jawline has gotten weaker but I dont know if im imagining it. I feel really ugly right now lol

Yes, it is. Your Test. to Estro ratio is off and you're holding more water, not only that, your body fat deposits will change to more feminine areas, so yes, you will lose your jawline until you get yourself sorted out.

[ethanrecovering]

Yes, it is. Your Test. to Estro ratio is off and you're holding more water, not only that, your body fat deposits will change to more feminine areas, so yes, you will lose your jawline until you get yourself sorted out.

Wouldn't that be more the case if I had low test rather than low estrogen? I thought low estrogen would mean fat loss if anything

[Cdsnuts]

Wouldn't that be more the case if I had low test rather than low estrogen? I thought low estrogen would mean fat loss if anything

I don't think you understood. Your ratio of T:E is off....not calibrated....off kilter. I wasn't saying one was higher then the other etc. But typically, when your E is higher then it should be, you hold water and your body fat deposits change towards the feminine side. If you're E is too low you can experience anxiety, sore joints, stiffness, etc. I won't go into the details of low Test because I'm sure everyone here already knows those. It's not so much what the numbers are, as it's more how they're balanced amongst themselves.