Road to the Recovery section

[Comewhatmay]

Hi Guys,

Following on from my introduction my story goes as follows

Debated for about 2 months whether to take finasteride. In terms of side effects the main ones I heard about were ED which may persist after use but did not know about the whole host of other sides that comes with the poison. After numerous YouTube videos (mostly pro-fin admitedly) I decided to take the punt and the plan being (to reduce sides funnily enough) take the pills three times a week Monday Wednesday and Friday.

Took the first pill on Wednesday just before I slept and felt fine until I tried to get an erection and it was noticeably harder to get fully up and when it was it did not stay for as long as it usually does.. Que some alarm bells however going through reddit and listening to these two Australian hair loss doctors regarding sides like that I was told chances are they would subside after a week so thought nothing much of it. Took the second pill on Friday as planned and the ED was still the same the following Saturday and it was at that point that I began thinking its not worth it and was not going to take another pill.

Then sometime that Saturday evening I had a very bad panic/anxiety attack I couldn't sit still I had all these crazy thoughts through my mind, my heartbeat was through the roof, couldn't sleep and worst of all this crippling anxiety I couldn't shake off.

Did a water fast the following Sunday (not sure if it helped) but I then did feel on the mend the following week as in I could sleep, eat whatever I wanted (not junk though) no anxiety but then a week to the day I had my first anxiety attack I had the second which wasn't as bad but then after effects of it were, as in I couldn't sleep again, anxiety returned etc.

After my second attack I then did a water fast for 5 days and since those 5 days till now I am doing ramadan (in my case, intermittent fasting from midnight to around half 8 in the evening) and since then and cutting out gluten and dairy thankfully my sleep has returned back to normal and the crippling anxiety had drastically reduced and I only really feel it if I am stressed and not every single second like before.

Unfortunately when I did crash I ended up on reddit and pph which did not help the anxiety at all. I actually mentioned on pph during my dark days that if things do not improve that I will embark on this protocol but was told its dangerous and people have crashed doing exercise or with certain herbs but being here and seeing the results it's hard to dispute you know.

As I said mentioned the anxiety and insomnia have gone (thankfully!) as these really worried me but the new symptoms which maybe I didn't realise before were face fat loss my skin seems very dull and lifeless compared to before and also my face is noticeable slimmer especially around the jaw line area (very similar to Damn post which has assured me this is fixable) and also ED whereby I can get it up through manual or visual stimulation but it doesn't stay there for too long.

I've been told on other forums that seen as yesterday was a month post crash and I have made good improvements, I ought to wait another 2 months (maybe by some miracle this thing goes away naturally) before embarking on something like this but I am worried that potentially the longer I leave this the more damage it will do


The plan for me on the protocol would be after ramadan is finished I will then continue with a paleo style diet for a week.

Then water fast
Refeed
Paleo
Daily supps
Excercise (hiit body weight workouts for a month 3-5x a week, 3 weeks of dumbell weight routines and then continuing weights but higher weight and less reps and then begin with the herb rotations and hopefully this will take me to the finish line.

Thanks for the time and place

[Cdsnuts]

Hi Guys,

Following on from my introduction my story goes as follows

Debated for about 2 months whether to take finasteride. In terms of side effects the main ones I heard about were ED which may persist after use but did not know about the whole host of other sides that comes with the poison. After numerous YouTube videos (mostly pro-fin admitedly) I decided to take the punt and the plan being (to reduce sides funnily enough) take the pills three times a week Monday Wednesday and Friday.

Took the first pill on Wednesday just before I slept and felt fine until I tried to get an erection and it was noticeably harder to get fully up and when it was it did not stay for as long as it usually does.. Que some alarm bells however going through reddit and listening to these two Australian hair loss doctors regarding sides like that I was told chances are they would subside after a week so thought nothing much of it. Took the second pill on Friday as planned and the ED was still the same the following Saturday and it was at that point that I began thinking its not worth it and was not going to take another pill.

Then sometime that Saturday evening I had a very bad panic/anxiety attack I couldn't sit still I had all these crazy thoughts through my mind, my heartbeat was through the roof, couldn't sleep and worst of all this crippling anxiety I couldn't shake off.

Did a water fast the following Sunday (not sure if it helped) but I then did feel on the mend the following week as in I could sleep, eat whatever I wanted (not junk though) no anxiety but then a week to the day I had my first anxiety attack I had the second which wasn't as bad but then after effects of it were, as in I couldn't sleep again, anxiety returned etc.

After my second attack I then did a water fast for 5 days and since those 5 days till now I am doing ramadan (in my case, intermittent fasting from midnight to around half 8 in the evening) and since then and cutting out gluten and dairy thankfully my sleep has returned back to normal and the crippling anxiety had drastically reduced and I only really feel it if I am stressed and not every single second like before.

Unfortunately when I did crash I ended up on reddit and pph which did not help the anxiety at all. I actually mentioned on pph during my dark days that if things do not improve that I will embark on this protocol but was told its dangerous and people have crashed doing exercise or with certain herbs but being here and seeing the results it's hard to dispute you know.

As I said mentioned the anxiety and insomnia have gone (thankfully!) as these really worried me but the new symptoms which maybe I didn't realise before were face fat loss my skin seems very dull and lifeless compared to before and also my face is noticeable slimmer especially around the jaw line area (very similar to Damn post which has assured me this is fixable) and also ED whereby I can get it up through manual or visual stimulation but it doesn't stay there for too long.

I've been told on other forums that seen as yesterday was a month post crash and I have made good improvements, I ought to wait another 2 months (maybe by some miracle this thing goes away naturally) before embarking on something like this but I am worried that potentially the longer I leave this the more damage it will do


The plan for me on the protocol would be after ramadan is finished I will then continue with a paleo style diet for a week.

Then water fast
Refeed
Paleo
Daily supps
Excercise (hiit body weight workouts for a month 3-5x a week, 3 weeks of dumbell weight routines and then continuing weights but higher weight and less reps and then begin with the herb rotations and hopefully this will take me to the finish line.

Thanks for the time and place

Welcome.

Please be assured, there is nothing dangerous about doing things that will serve to enhance every aspect of your health as a man.

Jump in with both feet, go 100%, and you'll get where you want to go.

[Comewhatmay]

Welcome.

Please be assured, there is nothing dangerous about doing things that will serve to enhance every aspect of your health as a man.

Jump in with both feet, go 100%, and you'll get where you want to go.

Thank you for the kind welcome Sir. Reading the countless stories of people documenting their journey has assured me ill leave pfs a better man than the one that entered. It's interesting as I am currently in ramadan coming of my pfs crash it's almost the reverse of the protocol where the good days are getting less and less and the bad days are outgrowing them but I know this is temporary and when I jump on the protocol head first I'll be where I want to.

I did have just the one question Cdnuts, having looked at loads of recovery stories sometimes I get a bit intimidated looking at the majority of those recovered and the amount of vitamins and supplements that they take for example one recovery user wrote they used

Morning:
Protocol Herb
Bacopa
Pine Pollen (3 teaspoons)
L-theanine
Vitamin D
Niacinamide
Bakopa
Ginkgo Biloba
Vitamin K (2 drops Kuinone sublingually)
Pansterone (2 drops applied to testes)
Piracetam 5g
Creatine 5g
1g Vit C
15mg Zinc
Alphas-Liopoic Acid
L carnitine
13mg Methylene Blue


Night:
Protocol herb
Magnesium
Glycine
L-Theanine

Gym:
15G BCAA's

In my case Im not the most clued up when it comes to this type of thing which is why I am grateful for the way the tmo website is made nice and clear and simply for us to follow but based on the website I would only use spirulina and chlorella and vitamin d and a protein pill daily and then once my diet and exercise is aligned I would jump on the herb rotation. I just want to ensure I am doing everything correct and not missing out on anything which could be beneficial

Thanks again

[Cdsnuts]

Thank you for the kind welcome Sir. Reading the countless stories of people documenting their journey has assured me ill leave pfs a better man than the one that entered. It's interesting as I am currently in ramadan coming of my pfs crash it's almost the reverse of the protocol where the good days are getting less and less and the bad days are outgrowing them but I know this is temporary and when I jump on the protocol head first I'll be where I want to.

I did have just the one question Cdnuts, having looked at loads of recovery stories sometimes I get a bit intimidated looking at the majority of those recovered and the amount of vitamins and supplements that they take for example one recovery user wrote they used

Morning:
Protocol Herb
Bacopa
Pine Pollen (3 teaspoons)
L-theanine
Vitamin D
Niacinamide
Bakopa
Ginkgo Biloba
Vitamin K (2 drops Kuinone sublingually)
Pansterone (2 drops applied to testes)
Piracetam 5g
Creatine 5g
1g Vit C
15mg Zinc
Alphas-Liopoic Acid
L carnitine
13mg Methylene Blue


Night:
Protocol herb
Magnesium
Glycine
L-Theanine

Gym:
15G BCAA's

In my case Im not the most clued up when it comes to this type of thing which is why I am grateful for the way the tmo website is made nice and clear and simply for us to follow but based on the website I would only use spirulina and chlorella and vitamin d and a protein pill daily and then once my diet and exercise is aligned I would jump on the herb rotation. I just want to ensure I am doing everything correct and not missing out on anything which could be beneficial

Thanks again

You can start the herb rotation right away, along with everything else. It will only help to get you going in the right direction quicker.

[Comewhatmay]

Will do CD, can't wait to get this thing going and have this ordeal behind me

Made a mistake yesterday. I was lieing down and noticed the muscle wastage on my thighs and calves and decided to do 100 body weight squats within 10 mins at like 6pm and was extremely happy to notice I had the thigh and leg aches that come with it and was also sweating quite a bit however when it came time to sleep my heart rate wouldn't let me and there was this disgusting odour I could smell coming from me and bare in mind the last week my sleep has been similar to before this situation. Just another reminder to myself and others to take it easy and although my intentions were good it was only counterproductive and I only managed to get 3hrs sleep.

I was actually debating to jump straight into the weights however after this I will do the. Calisthenics and work my way up

[Cdsnuts]

Will do CD, can't wait to get this thing going and have this ordeal behind me

Made a mistake yesterday. I was lieing down and noticed the muscle wastage on my thighs and calves and decided to do 100 body weight squats within 10 mins at like 6pm and was extremely happy to notice I had the thigh and leg aches that come with it and was also sweating quite a bit however when it came time to sleep my heart rate wouldn't let me and there was this disgusting odour I could smell coming from me and bare in mind the last week my sleep has been similar to before this situation. Just another reminder to myself and others to take it easy and although my intentions were good it was only counterproductive and I only managed to get 3hrs sleep.

I was actually debating to jump straight into the weights however after this I will do the. Calisthenics and work my way up

TMO recommends starting with calisthenics my man. Especially if you're not used to working with weights. Also, you want to keep your work outs as far away from sleep as possible. I personally wouldn't work out passed 4pm. It really gets things going which will lead to sleep issues, especially if you're already experiencing them.

[Comewhatmay]

Thanks for the advice will definetely take it on board. I did want to ask one thing regarding the herbs and that is if anyone knows where to get SMH quality herbs over here in the UK or if they have a European distributor? Thanks in advance

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the advice will definetely take it on board. I did want to ask one thing regarding the herbs and that is if anyone knows where to get SMH quality herbs over here in the UK or if they have a European distributor? Thanks in advance

Lost Empire from TMO will ship to the UK

[Comewhatmay]

Lost Empire from TMO will ship to the UK

Gotcha. About to put an order through. I've gone for Pine Pollen both powder and tincture, Shilajit, Goji Berry, Bacopa (got this one based of a recommendation CD gave to coppersocks regarding lowering cortisol after workouts to aid sleep), He Shou Wu, Tongkat Ali, Ant Extract & Cistanche. Moving forward I will probably have to purchase these herbs locally for financial reasons, so if anyone does know any decent UK or European suppliers of good quality herbs please let me know especially as I plan on using just the herb rotation (understand that prohormones may that you to the promiseland quicker but are by no means essential) as well as diet, exercise, cold showers etc. That come with the protocol.

Personally I'm going thorough upswings and downswings if you like (which give me a glimpse of the future) whereby as its ramadan and my eating hours are severely limited i think its actually benifted me in terms of discipline as I've pretty much kept it paleo with the exception of rice quite oftenly which I handle fine. Sleep
starts consistent in terms on an upswing I sleep for around 4 hrs then wake for 10 mins then another 3 hours and on a downswing its sleep for 4 hrs and then maybe an hour and that is after really struggling. Interestingly this downswing coincided with the 100 bodyweight squats where I struggled to sleep with after (and 3 days later I still feel the soreness which is a good thing I guess).

In terms of timescale to recovery I know CD initially said I have a great chance of being a quick case (needless to say this is if I adhere to the protocol 100%) but I personally now believe I could be towards the end of the scale and the reason I say this is due to the muscle wastage and loss of fat of face, sunken eyes and pale skin which based on cases similar it does seem to take longer to clear those symptoms. Initially I was weighed down at the thought but then realised what the alternative was and the answer was in two years time drowning in my sorrows

I know I've rambled on for a while now and I do apologise as its not the place to do so but I just thought about the day where this whole thing is behind me and I can look at my own post just like this one and say... Look how far you've come kid

Ramadan finishes on Saturday so next steps for me is probably 5 days of normal eating paleo style then jump into a 7-9 day waterfast at home which should be fine as I'm working from home and resting

[Cdsnuts]

Gotcha. About to put an order through. I've gone for Pine Pollen both powder and tincture, Shilajit, Goji Berry, Bacopa (got this one based of a recommendation CD gave to coppersocks regarding lowering cortisol after workouts to aid sleep), He Shou Wu, Tongkat Ali, Ant Extract & Cistanche. Moving forward I will probably have to purchase these herbs locally for financial reasons, so if anyone does know any decent UK or European suppliers of good quality herbs please let me know especially as I plan on using just the herb rotation (understand that prohormones may that you to the promiseland quicker but are by no means essential) as well as diet, exercise, cold showers etc. That come with the protocol.

Personally I'm going thorough upswings and downswings if you like (which give me a glimpse of the future) whereby as its ramadan and my eating hours are severely limited i think its actually benifted me in terms of discipline as I've pretty much kept it paleo with the exception of rice quite oftenly which I handle fine. Sleep
starts consistent in terms on an upswing I sleep for around 4 hrs then wake for 10 mins then another 3 hours and on a downswing its sleep for 4 hrs and then maybe an hour and that is after really struggling. Interestingly this downswing coincided with the 100 bodyweight squats where I struggled to sleep with after (and 3 days later I still feel the soreness which is a good thing I guess).

In terms of timescale to recovery I know CD initially said I have a great chance of being a quick case (needless to say this is if I adhere to the protocol 100%) but I personally now believe I could be towards the end of the scale and the reason I say this is due to the muscle wastage and loss of fat of face, sunken eyes and pale skin which based on cases similar it does seem to take longer to clear those symptoms. Initially I was weighed down at the thought but then realised what the alternative was and the answer was in two years time drowning in my sorrows

I know I've rambled on for a while now and I do apologise as its not the place to do so but I just thought about the day where this whole thing is behind me and I can look at my own post just like this one and say... Look how far you've come kid

Ramadan finishes on Saturday so next steps for me is probably 5 days of normal eating paleo style then jump into a 7-9 day waterfast at home which should be fine as I'm working from home and resting

I thought that too, but honestly, I've never gone back to look at my posts on PH.....ever. it was so traumatic and dark and depressing and I didn't want to bring that into my present moment. to each there own.

[Comewhatmay]

So today is going to be the start of my minimum 7 day water fast. I did two water fast previously one lasted just a day and that was the day after my initial crash and rebound period and I then did a 5 day water fast which then led into ramadan. I don't know if it was a consequence of the water fasts but from then till now the anxiety has gone and the insomnia also. Start feeling tired at around 9ish and tend to wake up around 4-5am each night which is a long way from when my pounding heart rate would not let me rest and my anxiety that stemmed from my gut wouldn't allow me to think straight or get any kind of rest.

I can definetely see this water fast being a lot tougher than previous ones as my appetite is quite high and my mood has improved a lot compared to before but none the less I feel its important to have a good cleanse before healing the body. 

It has been now just over 7 weeks since my crash and in terms of symptoms I would say the only ones that are causing issues are ED (can still get it going by visual stimulation, mentally is more difficult) and not as full as before, my face also which is worrying me as I am not long off the poison and I've seen a lot of changes such as sunken eyes and cheeks and my jaw seems to have sucked the skin into it (worried about potential bone loss and hoping the protocol will stop the changes in its tracks and reverse) and lastly muscle wastage especially around arms and wrists and thighs and calves also hips.

I've purchased 7 herbs from LEH and plan to purchase at least 7 more to have a 14 day cycle, as I do not plan to run a prohormones so I feel the more herbs I have the quicker I can get to where I want to be. 

Overall I'm doing pretty well all things considered and have made noticeable improvements from 7 weeks ago where I thought my life was over. Only frustrating thing is face changes as it is a constant reminder of what has happened and if not for that I would probably say I was 70% of the way there

As a side note I've noticed that the new school of the Cdnuts protocol undergrads seem to be suffering similar sides mainly being physical like ethanrecovering. I'm sure it wont be long before we are wearing our caps and gowns!

[ethanrecovering]

You got it man! Keep us updated with the fast.

[Comewhatmay]

You got it man! Keep us updated with the fast.

Will do my man. So just finished day two of the water fast. Day one was fine only issue was a slight reoccurrence of the pounding heartbeat that used to stop my from sleeping but wasn't enough to do the same this time.

Day two on the other hand during the day was fine I went for a 40 minute walk at a light pace. Felt some pain in my right groin and not sure where that's come from but then when trying to sleep the pounding heartbeat was back in effect and its currently half 1 in the morning and I am struggling to get back to sleep. Really frustrating as for the past 2 weeks my sleep has been great but I assume the high cortisol levels are responsible for these issues right now.

Will continue to stick it out as on my previous water fasts I also had issues early days with sleep which resolved around the 4th day and on my last waterfast ill never forget the 4th day where I felt a mental clarity I hadn't felt in years.

Will come back and update in 2 days or so

[RPP44]

Im having the same issue with sleep.... had no pounding heartbeat for a week and managed to sleep 6- 7 hours (broken into two 3 hour blocks) but for the last 4 days sleep has gone down to 2-3 hours..... i know my cortisol is through the roof and causing it.... its like 3 steps forward and 2 back

[Comewhatmay]

Im having the same issue with sleep.... had no pounding heartbeat for a week and managed to sleep 6- 7 hours (broken into two 3 hour blocks) but for the last 4 days sleep has gone down to 2-3 hours..... i know my cortisol is through the roof and causing it.... its like 3 steps forward and 2 back

Yeah it's just frustrating thinking this is a result of the waterfast because the consequence now is a super shitty day and of course now being worried about how my sleep is going to look in the short term as well as hoping the dreaded anxiety doesn't return.

Have you jumped on the protocol yourself mate?

On a brighter note I purchased 5 more herbs taking my total to 12 and pine pollen which I will take daily

[Comewhatmay]

Just to update you unfortunately I have cut my water fast after just two days. Not feeling well at all and considering I have recently come off ramadan and was probably in a calorie deficit which could have cause issues. I have decided to go again in 2-3 weeks

I'm extremely angry with myself especially as I want this whole pfs episode behind me ASAP and see this as 2 weeks added to my recovery time especially as my face is seemingly getting more compact and smaller it seems

Also my sleep (which has been a stable 7h minimum for 2 weeks) has gone to shit yesterday managed 3h and today 5h and this has a huge knock on effect I have noticed on my mood and energy levels and also my voice.

As I cannot really progress without cleansing I am still trying to do productive things to at least feel like I've gained knowledge. No lie I think I may have read everyone thread here and certain relatable ones numerous times and I notice this happens way more during downswing and tbh it can be slightly obsessive and addictive which can definetely too much if that makes sense. I mean I will literally put my phone down for 2 minutes then go back on and look at another random thread ive already seen 5x.

Also have a current stash of 12 herbs all of CD's recommended list and majority from LEH. So will purchase at least two more to make it a two week cycle. Only issue that worries me with exercise is it does seem to spike cortisol levels to the point where I struggle to sleep so I will work out early in the morning and hope that does the trick as with my last attempt at exercising I had 2 bad sleeping nights because of it.

Symptom wise it seems to be the case that recoveries tend to start with mental issues then physical issues then finally sexual issues. I've also wondered with prohormones if there was a time scale on how much quicker they would take to get you to 100%. I mean looking at certain threads especially those that didn't want to use them you did get a vibe that they were not consistent with the regiment enough and almost gave in to the PH whereas if they were as consistent as when they first started they would have reached recovery without them like English and Jimmyjonas and not that there is anything wrong with using them I would just avoid it personally.
It's funny I say this but once I reach 80-85% I'd like to think I'd still be 100% on the protocol and use days like today as motivation the keep moving forward until the day comes where I just realise I'm recovered

[Turnover25]

Just to update you unfortunately I have cut my water fast after just two days. Not feeling well at all and considering I have recently come off ramadan and was probably in a calorie deficit which could have cause issues. I have decided to go again in 2-3 weeks

I'm extremely angry with myself especially as I want this whole pfs episode behind me ASAP and see this as 2 weeks added to my recovery time especially as my face is seemingly getting more compact and smaller it seems

Also my sleep (which has been a stable 7h minimum for 2 weeks) has gone to shit yesterday managed 3h and today 5h and this has a huge knock on effect I have noticed on my mood and energy levels and also my voice.

As I cannot really progress without cleansing I am still trying to do productive things to at least feel like I've gained knowledge. No lie I think I may have read everyone thread here and certain relatable ones numerous times and I notice this happens way more during downswing and tbh it can be slightly obsessive and addictive which can definetely too much if that makes sense. I mean I will literally put my phone down for 2 minutes then go back on and look at another random thread ive already seen 5x.

Also have a current stash of 12 herbs all of CD's recommended list and majority from LEH. So will purchase at least two more to make it a two week cycle. Only issue that worries me with exercise is it does seem to spike cortisol levels to the point where I struggle to sleep so I will work out early in the morning and hope that does the trick as with my last attempt at exercising I had 2 bad sleeping nights because of it.

Symptom wise it seems to be the case that recoveries tend to start with mental issues then physical issues then finally sexual issues. I've also wondered with prohormones if there was a time scale on how much quicker they would take to get you to 100%. I mean looking at certain threads especially those that didn't want to use them you did get a vibe that they were not consistent with the regiment enough and almost gave in to the PH whereas if they were as consistent as when they first started they would have reached recovery without them like English and Jimmyjonas and not that there is anything wrong with using them I would just avoid it personally.
It's funny I say this but once I reach 80-85% I'd like to think I'd still be 100% on the protocol and use days like today as motivation the keep moving forward until the day comes where I just realise I'm recovered


Hey man, first off, good attitude toward everything. Saying things like "once I reach 85%" is great, a positive mindset is going to be your best friend and it's the best part of this forum. Something I can relate to, since I actually suffered from OCD before PFS, don't keep re-reading posts during downswings or whatever, get out and live your life. Constantly checking is your minds way of "seeking relief" and it becomes addicting because your brain will release feel good chemicals once you have "convinced" yourself. This becomes addicting, feeds anxiety and can actually develop into OCD or something else. I notice this a lot within the PFS community since I've suffered it my whole life, I make it a point not to fact check constantly, meditation is also key.

Also, don't sweat the water fast, I had a few times where I went 2 days and cut it, but eventually did a 5 day water fast and a 7 day juice feast, and my symptoms all flared up miserably around day 2-4. I was experiencing severe derealization, brain fog, anxiety, light sensitivity, it was miserable, but it all went away after I introduced food again, so don't be too afraid of the fast, you'll feel better after.

[Comewhatmay]

Hey man, first off, good attitude toward everything. Saying things like "once I reach 85%" is great, a positive mindset is going to be your best friend and it's the best part of this forum. Something I can relate to, since I actually suffered from OCD before PFS, don't keep re-reading posts during downswings or whatever, get out and live your life. Constantly checking is your minds way of "seeking relief" and it becomes addicting because your brain will release feel good chemicals once you have "convinced" yourself. This becomes addicting, feeds anxiety and can actually develop into OCD or something else. I notice this a lot within the PFS community since I've suffered it my whole life, I make it a point not to fact check constantly, meditation is also key.

Also, don't sweat the water fast, I had a few times where I went 2 days and cut it, but eventually did a 5 day water fast and a 7 day juice feast, and my symptoms all flared up miserably around day 2-4. I was experiencing severe derealization, brain fog, anxiety, light sensitivity, it was miserable, but it all went away after I introduced food again, so don't be too afraid of the fast, you'll feel better after.

Thanks for the advice T25 much appreciated. I've just gone over your thread and extremely happy for you to see all the improvements you made. I am actually going to follow in your footsteps and that of TMO which is to fully the protocol step by step as to avoid the pitfalls that I see many people go through such as experimenting dangerously or overtraining.

Today marks 2 months since my crash and there have been many ups and downs particularly sleep and anxiety. The past week my anxiety left 3 days ago which would usually make my sleep better but for some reason that hasn't been the case and its 4am and I cannot sleep a wink. May start the water fast a week earlier than I intended as maybe this can give me some sleep. I feel the lack of sleep may be self inflicted due to symptom watching specifically in the face whereby I look horrific now and have lost collagen and I'm constantly paranoid it could lead to bone loss and dental issues. From what I see of the three main types of side effects and which are physical sexual and mental it seems that mental is the first to heal followed by physical and the sexual which is close enough to how I would like them to go in which order. Cold showers definetely help with anxiety and wim hof too however I did try it today just before bed and I couldn't get over the sleeping line so to speak. I previously did try magnesium citrate for sleeping issues 2 weeks after my crash to enhance my already good sleep at the time but it had the opposite affect whereby I couldn't sleep and had heartburn and felt like my wrist was burning so I assume my body was hot receptive to supps but maybe after the fast this can change.

I have to say there is something therapeutic about writing out issues and what I'm going through and I know currently it's not exactly a message of positivity but it is what it is and bare in mind I am not on the protocol as of yet. Once I complete my waterfast and begin the journey to get my health back I'm sure my posts will be positive and I will try and balance out the ups and downswings as I know it's a lot easier to come here and post when your feeling down.

[Comewhatmay]

So I am planning to now start my water fast on Monday and try to go for a week. Symptom wise I am getting very worse especially physically face wise. My jawline is practically shrinking day by day and it's depressing to see and hard to take for sure.
This usually leads me down a path of checking who else had these symptoms which inevitably leads me to the other site where people had these issues but of course I am yet to find one to recover from them but we all know why that is because you either feel sorry for yourself or you do something about it. To be fair Damn did but my brain wants more validity and assurances which is stupid because there are times when I know how bad I am and where I need to get to and other times like now where I wake up in the middle of the night and wonder how is this happening.

I really hope at this moment it is only subcutaneous fat loss in the face and not bone loss as I believe its easy to fix lack of collagen than lack of bone in the face. I do try and remind myself that it could be worse and I could have mental sides on top of all this. I do also wonder sometimes if prohormones are neccesary in some cases of severe physical symptoms. I notice most people who have moonface (opposite to me) do tend to shake it off on protocol after 8 of so months so hopefully the same can be said for someone coming from the opposite direction. My parents have noticed my face and my mum freaked out and I told her some bs story about the doctors said I'm low on test and I need to do a regimen (CD) for 6 or so months to get looking like I used to as I couldn't bring myself to tell them fin did this to me. Obviously it may be longer than that but once she is used to it extended the time shouldn't be an issue

Bottom line is I honestly can't believe what this poison can do that a man especially in under 10 weeks taking 2 doses. Ultimately I will start the protocol and give it everything I have (due to corona may have to do calisthenics for a while with the gym situation) and my maybe false hope would be that I would see positive facial changes in 6 months and I don't mean healed but at least that there is improvement as from the amount of threads I've seen leading to recovery it seems mental sides clear up first then physical followed by sexual symptoms. I hope as somewhat of a good charm is that I am quite recent off the drug so my body still has a good grasp of what should be my homeostatis therefore snapping back could be quicker than some other people. I don't drink alcohol or use drugs or take gluten so I can't see any major falling off the wagon per day, of course you never know with life.

My hope is once I am on the protocol and know I am doing what I should be I may be able to set and forget as most recovers say. Especially the first sign of positive face changes as then maybe I'll stop freaking out so much especially as all this has happened in lock down and when I go back to work people will definetely have things to say.

In terms of the road to recovery having gone through most if not all threads here, the one I will try to replicate the most is jimmyjonas as he kept it super simple with excercise before work, eating clean and rotating herbs (obviously as well as cold showers and breathing etc) and he didn't do anything out of that and also he wasn't taking 100 different daily supps which when I first came here confused me and made me anxious thinking I have to take all these pills and that's the reason Im here and when he was consistent he saw results quickly and basically recovered when he was on protocol in 10 months without prohormones. Then I thought to myself but he didn't have the sides that you have but then I told myself well even if he did have the sides I did by doing the mandatory parts of the protocol you will get there maybe in the same time maybe longer.

You probably wouldn't know if you come this far reading this but I do have other sides also which I feel is important to document for those coming after me maybe with similar sides so they know they can and will make it out the other end of they commit to this. Sides are also muscle wastage on wrists, thighs, ass and calves, ED and insomnia which seems to be fine for a week and then bad for half a week which will then cause anxiety. I don't want to come across as vain or anything because believe me I'm far from good looking (my hair is my saving grace hence the stupidest decision of my life) its just with the face it's a constant reminder of what happened. Even when my phone is on lock and dark and I see my reflection on it and my face looks someone's just pushed it from either end is kinda demoralising.

Apologies for blabbing on just one of those nights slept early up at 4 in the morning and just wanted to document my thoughts which does help in a way. Also to those who have anxiety or trouble sleeping I read CD's method and did 2 rounds of WIM Hoff followed by a cold shower and boy that did shake the cob webbs Off! and it also reassured me that blind faith is the way forward as I have seen numerous recoveries on an upwards trend that unfortunately take things outside the protocol which may actually help them but it can also set them back a bit so if it ain't in the protocol I can't see myself doing it.

Chio

[DrivenToRecover]

You'll be ok brother. Stick to it and you'll be better looking and feel better than you did before pretty quickly.

Forearms and calves for me too were noticeably smaller. I think this is related to high cortisol and or mild insulin resistance. The protocol tackles both of these.

Also, for the faical stuff get a high quality Vit K2 supplment and take eggshell calcium. These are both amazing for bone health. My jaw has never looked better.

You can also do face dunks in really cold water to improve facial skin quality and to spot treat fat cells

[Comewhatmay]

You'll be ok brother. Stick to it and you'll be better looking and feel better than you did before pretty quickly.

Forearms and calves for me too were noticeably smaller. I think this is related to high cortisol and or mild insulin resistance. The protocol tackles both of these.

Also, for the faical stuff get a high quality Vit K2 supplment and take eggshell calcium. These are both amazing for bone health. My jaw has never looked better.

You can also do face dunks in really cold water to improve facial skin quality and to spot treat fat cells

Hey Driven,

Thanks for taking the time to message I really appreciate it.

Im already taking vitamin D 3000 iu but I've seen that there is a vitamin D + K2 supplement so I'll get a good quality reviewed one off amazon now and I'll also look into eggshell calcium as that is a quite a glowing review you've given it. Also I take cold showers daily and do notice my face looks more vibrant after like you said.

I'm sure the protocol will take me back to myself pre fin it's just sometimes when symptoms do get worse you do research and with the facial ones it does seem quite rare I mean a Google search will take you to the dark side where of course noone recovers and here on swole source there isn't many start to finish threads regarding facial wasting as apposed to the other more common sides so it's hard to gauge a rough timescale. But I assume once I'm on the water fast Ill at least have the comfort of knowing I'm starting my journey to go back to who I was.

Also congrats on your progress and where you are now Driven. I remember reading your thread previously and you made me have the craziest though that the pfs I'm dealing with is not too bad :-). But with a screen name like the one you have it was never in question!

[Comewhatmay]

Update time

Just finished a six day waterfast yesterday and broke it with a mix of melons and will continue today with fruit and some veg. Waterfast itself was quite difficult compared to the 5 day one I did 6 weeks prior in terms of my hunger levels and smelling food really set the hunger off.

Plan now is to dial down on the diet which will likely be eggs and either spinach, avacado or mushrooms then some kind of salad for lunch and then either chicken or beef with veg for lunch and fruit in between as I can handle it fine.

In terms of excercise I'll start with the herbs simultaneously with calisthenics as laid out on TMO but won't be able to do pull ups as I don't have anywhere really to do them. Do this for around 3 weeks but unfortunately the way covid is playing up and the gyms not being open over here I will probably have to go longer and if so I will invest in some dumbells to give me somewhat of a testosterone boost.

I just about managed to do the waterfast without alerting my parents but towards the end my lack of energy stopped me going to the kitchen and pretending to make food to not arouse suspicion and my hawk eyed mum has noticed my weight loss as a result and is now literally trying to stuff me with food. In a way the fact that my face has gone shorter and skinnier has helped me do the diet side of the protocol as my mum is worried about it and I've told her in six months it'll go back to normal (of course it may not but it buys me some time) so she is now supportive of it because if it was just mental or sexual issues it would be harder to deviate from what meals she usually makes and expects us to eat which is very carb heavy.

Otherwise I'm feeling motivated and know I can beat this thing with discipline and keeping it simple. Before I knew about this site I was scared as hell thinking my life was over but ever since I've been here and read recoveries and threads my outlook has been the complete opposite and I feel my mood has improved tenfold without even being on the protocol so I can only imagine how I will feel in the coming months now that I am strapped in and ready for the ride.

[Comewhatmay]

Update time

Came off a 6 day waterfast (did 5 days previously aswell) seems that on my downswings since they arent as bad and its more just a bit of overthinking and sleeping an hour or so less than usual for the time being. 

I've used the week since coming off the fast to fine tune the paleo diet and have found a routine that works I believe based on eggs and spinach mushrooms or avocado's. Then a light salad or sushi (no soy sauce) for lunch and then meat and a lot of veggies for dinner. Snacks would be fruits or sardines 

Started both the calethenics excercise and the herbs today as per CDs advice of getting the ball rolling quickly and after doing 5 sets of push ups I did feel some slight anxiety I haven't felt in a while after but I know this is completely normal. Took pine pollen for the day two teaspoons and glad that I didn't have a bad reaction to it. In terms of benefits didn't really feel any but I know this will come with time and I stay in the knowledge that its doing stuff behind the scenes and any benefit I feel from a herb is a plus and shouldn't really be expected. 

As my side effects are essentially physical and slightly sexual I believe the effects will really start to kick off when I start in the gym lifting weights which I am slightly impatient about and I don't believe I am in that bad shape tbh to start in a few weeks obviously I would be starting light and easing my way in to the heavy stuff 

I replaced my vitamin d3 for a d3+k2 Daily supplement and oddly enough I've noticed some jaw pain but I'm not sure and doubt it's the supplement could just be my side effects worsening. I wish I could at least pause the sides as I know it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Also if anyone can answer I use dr bronners peppermint soap castile as body wash but have just seen people here saying peppermint inhibits dht. Should I buy another fragrance from Dr broner as I know his products are good or am I being over the top about this. Also apologies for the questions guys but is there any products good for face wash or moisturising especially for dry skin, I've tried to find stuff on amazon without xenostregens but they all seem to have something bad for us in them and I'm in the UK if that helps

[Maxout777]

Update time

Came off a 6 day waterfast (did 5 days previously aswell) seems that on my downswings since they arent as bad and its more just a bit of overthinking and sleeping an hour or so less than usual for the time being. 

I've used the week since coming off the fast to fine tune the paleo diet and have found a routine that works I believe based on eggs and spinach mushrooms or avocado's. Then a light salad or sushi (no soy sauce) for lunch and then meat and a lot of veggies for dinner. Snacks would be fruits or sardines 

Started both the calethenics excercise and the herbs today as per CDs advice of getting the ball rolling quickly and after doing 5 sets of push ups I did feel some slight anxiety I haven't felt in a while after but I know this is completely normal. Took pine pollen for the day two teaspoons and glad that I didn't have a bad reaction to it. In terms of benefits didn't really feel any but I know this will come with time and I stay in the knowledge that its doing stuff behind the scenes and any benefit I feel from a herb is a plus and shouldn't really be expected. 

As my side effects are essentially physical and slightly sexual I believe the effects will really start to kick off when I start in the gym lifting weights which I am slightly impatient about and I don't believe I am in that bad shape tbh to start in a few weeks obviously I would be starting light and easing my way in to the heavy stuff 

I replaced my vitamin d3 for a d3+k2 Daily supplement and oddly enough I've noticed some jaw pain but I'm not sure and doubt it's the supplement could just be my side effects worsening. I wish I could at least pause the sides as I know it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Also if anyone can answer I use dr bronners peppermint soap castile as body wash but have just seen people here saying peppermint inhibits dht. Should I buy another fragrance from Dr broner as I know his products are good or am I being over the top about this. Also apologies for the questions guys but is there any products good for face wash or moisturising especially for dry skin, I've tried to find stuff on amazon without xenostregens but they all seem to have something bad for us in them and I'm in the UK if that helps


I used Dr. Bronner’s products with no issues whatsoever.

Currently I use a mixture of Ursa Major and Oars and Alps products for hair and skincare. For dental, I use the Hello brand line. Also have used Bronners for that as well.

[Comewhatmay]

Thanks for the reply and advice Maxout much appreciated. Just one of those early days questioning everything analysis paralysis type of thing

[DKnighten]

Update time




Also if anyone can answer I use dr bronners peppermint soap castile as body wash but have just seen people here saying peppermint inhibits dht. Should I buy another fragrance from Dr broner as I know his products are good or am I being over the top about this. Also apologies for the questions guys but is there any products good for face wash or moisturising especially for dry skin, I've tried to find stuff on amazon without xenostregens but they all seem to have something bad for us in them and I'm in the UK if that helps

The unscented body wash on the HealthRanger site is pretty pricey, but if you buy the 3 pack and just use a few drops on a skin brush in the shower, they last a long time.

[Comewhatmay]

The unscented body wash on the HealthRanger site is pretty pricey, but if you buy the 3 pack and just use a few drops on a skin brush in the shower, they last a long time.

Thanks dude. They look a great option but can't get them in the UK unfortunately

[Comewhatmay]

Update time

Downswing has arrived after about 2 weeks since the last one. So frustrating as I cannot get any kind of restful sleep and then comes slight depression and also flashbacks of certain horrific articles I've read during early stages of this journey. I also notice in downswings I tend to think irrationally like for example I feel I need to join a gym immediately even though I'm doing calisthenics at home which is what I should be doing. Currently I'm doing the diet, at home bodyweight workouts and rotating herbs but feel it's almost a waste without lifting especially in a case like mine where my body and face have lost muscle a lot and going to the gym and raising test will be like 60% of fixing physical symptoms I believe.

It does seem like this downswing is less intense than the last couple ones as with those ones I just couldn't sleep and with this one I can manage around 4 hrs tops. Even minor things like playing a video game on my phone or scrolling through twitter, Its like I'm not content doing it like before but once the downswing has gone I'm fine in that regard. Generally a couple wim hof rounds and a cold shower do help for a while.

I do try and remind myself as Turnover told me that mental sides are a lot worse than physical and I should be grateful for which I am it's just tough catching a glimpse of yourself and seeing the damage but I have taken solace in the fact that the protocol will recover me, I have no doubt about it.

I've noticed a lot of my posts are quite negative. It's so easy to come here and post when you feel like shit but when I'm feeling good mood wise it's easier to stay away so with that in mind it's only right that the next post I will make will have some good vibes hopefully to share.

[jimmyjonas]

Hello Comewhatmay I got a notification that I got tagged in a post, it’s been a while since I’ve been here, maybe a year since I last logged in, I won’t stay long but just to say I am still recovered, an awful lot has happened in my life and have since had a healthy baby daughter, the whole pfs nightmare is a distant memory now thankfully, I just want to say to everyone and you who are suffering, I was there, in hell for a long time, I wanted to die but I got better, my side effects are gone. The key is keep it simple, stick to what’s laid out and you WILL get over this, nowadays I don’t work out like i did during recovery, I don’t go to gym anymore but I do walk a lot, so nothing too strenuous but I’m fine, I have no sexual side effects anymore, from going from feeling like i had no penis i can gladly say all is good in that department now. I’ve lost some people close to me and have gone through ups and downs since but it’s normal life stuff not the pfs black hole shit that dominated my life for a long time, thank god. Keep pushing through lads and avoid negativity, don’t go down the rabbit hole of living on forums, the plan is laid out here by cd to get better, get on it and stay off the sites as much as possible, a lot of bad shit online that will f your head up, get the permanent label out of your head (that really fucked me up mentally as in people saying it’s impossible to recover from) you can get past it. One good thing that’s come from this dark chapter is that now when i face more real world challenges I say to myself if you can beat pfs you can beat anything. Best of luck lads

[Comewhatmay]

Hello Comewhatmay I got a notification that I got tagged in a post, it’s been a while since I’ve been here, maybe a year since I last logged in, I won’t stay long but just to say I am still recovered, an awful lot has happened in my life and have since had a healthy baby daughter, the whole pfs nightmare is a distant memory now thankfully, I just want to say to everyone and you who are suffering, I was there, in hell for a long time, I wanted to die but I got better, my side effects are gone. The key is keep it simple, stick to what’s laid out and you WILL get over this, nowadays I don’t work out like i did during recovery, I don’t go to gym anymore but I do walk a lot, so nothing too strenuous but I’m fine, I have no sexual side effects anymore, from going from feeling like i had no penis i can gladly say all is good in that department now. I’ve lost some people close to me and have gone through ups and downs since but it’s normal life stuff not the pfs black hole shit that dominated my life for a long time, thank god. Keep pushing through lads and avoid negativity, don’t go down the rabbit hole of living on forums, the plan is laid out here by cd to get better, get on it and stay off the sites as much as possible, a lot of bad shit online that will f your head up, get the permanent label out of your head (that really fucked me up mentally as in people saying it’s impossible to recover from) you can get past it. One good thing that’s come from this dark chapter is that now when i face more real world challenges I say to myself if you can beat pfs you can beat anything. Best of luck lads

Hey jimmyjonas,

First things first congrats on the birth of your baby girl, that's great news and it's always good to hear from someone on the other side of this.

Reading your thread and seeing just how low you were at one point and the recovery you made was one that lifted my mood and let me know there is a clear way out of here that isn't impossible and just need some discipline.

Your absolutely right about it not being permanent regardless of what they say on the other place but during the downswings I do get flashbacks to those articles which as you know freak you out but with the help of cold showers and breathing exercises they do help.

Waiting for the gyms to open over here so I can start lifting and really feel like I'm doing the whole protocol and get this nightmare over and done with. I would hope and imagine that when I'm doing everything I should I can just get on with my life knowing over time ill be better than I was

Again it's great to hear you are doing great and well and I also hope everything is going well on the music front also!

Take care my friend

[Comewhatmay]

Update

I've started taking the herbs now for almost two weeks and understandibly I can't say I feel any great effects from them but what i do feel is that when I'm on a downswing it's not near as bad as previous ones where I couldnt sleep much at all and now even going through one I can get 6 hours at least. Noticed I get a random minor head itch 2 or 3 times a day which got me quite happy (clutching at straws I know)

I'm slowly getting better at meditating and I feel this is super necessary as the thoughts in my head can go into overdrive and I can start having conversations in my own head all pfs related which isn't healthy and I do like the feeling I get after. Same with cold showers but honestly I do them during downswings and upswings I don't have the same motivation to but I will work on this

Piece of advise for anyone purchasing pine pollen especially from Lost Empire is buy the mega dose one. I use to tablespoons daily and I got through the regular 50g package in under two weeks so that is something to consider.

Other than that I am trying to remain positive. I am rotating push ups, pull ups and squats while waiting for the gyms to open up.

I will give everything to recover. My plan is to play the role of Mr Consistent. I wonder if amount of doses of Fin taken can effect how long recovery time is. I took two plus I've never drunk alcohol so hopefully I can maybe be on the 6 month side of things as CD said I could he but if not then I will stick things out until I am where I need to be.

[Comewhatmay]

Update

Due to the Corona and living with my parents I am still uneasy as are they about joining the gym so I've just bit the bullet and bought a 50kg weight set with barbell and dumbells included to tie me over until when it's safer to return. Paid almost double the retail price for them but health is wealth I've learned the hard way. I know it's not ideal but the protocol does recommend starting at lighter weights for a month or so therefore I should yield decent rises in testosterone from them plus I've looked at alternative weight exercises for certain lifts that attack certain muscle groups.

Had the best upswing I can remember that lasted two days which was cool.

Symptom wise I do feel it's slightly getting worse unfortunately which I guess is understandable as I've not been lifting just doing body weight work especially skin seems to get strechier on face and body and also sleep which is bugging me out as generally on downswings I couldn't sleep much if any but on upswings I could get around 7h uninterrupted and now on upswings I go sleep at around 9 and wake up at quarter to 3 every time and struggle to go back and nothing I've done has changed since then till now so I am puzzled but on a brighter note I have noticed my scalp getting more tingly and itchy like it used to which is encouraging.

Will probably now go to posting once a month with updates on how things are going or if there is a major breakthrough or advice.

Last questions I have (I promise) is in regards to hiit. Would it be okay to do this (either before or after) weightlifting with the upper body e.g. Biceps day or chest day instead of doing it on a separate day and also could it be done on a elliptical machine

Thanks

[Comewhatmay]

Month One Update

Been in the protocol for around two months now. Just to recap started with the 6 day fast and then started on the herbs and calisthenics workouts a week later as laid out on TMO, did that for 3 weeks and the past 3 weeks or so I've been using a barbell and dumbell set I bought.

I have really enjoyed working out and the feeling you get after. I've been doing it the TMO way, progressively increasing the weight week by week, and if there's any excercise I can't do as I am working out at homeI just type in the excercise on google and find a dumbell or barbell equivalent.

In the past month since I posted ive definetely seen improvements mood wise and outlook aswell. Also I've noticed whereas early on my downswings would last 4 to 5 days and then I'd be on an upswing for about a week or so the past two downswings have lasted 2 to 3 days max and then I've been on a upswing for about 4 days and then it tapers out to what I believe is my baseline and then will inevitably go to a downswing.

Downswings still are pretty shitty and even though I've experienced a few now it still has you questioning everything including progress and if you'll see an upswing again but as time goes on and they lessen in severity it'll be fine.

Overall I definetely feel I'm on the right track. Just seems to be a case of consistency and given how badly I want to recover will not be an issue.

[Comewhatmay]

Month two update

Doing really well overall. The anxiety and depression that took hold of me seems to have gone now and the downswings are not anywhere near as bad as before.

Been doing weights from home now and will start to progress with less reps and more weight as per the tmo website. Only thing I need to start is hiit sprinting just trying to find a place I can start running crazy like phoebe from friends haha.

My face which looked bad and considerably worsened months after my crash also looks better as does my skin with my parents even saying they see really positive changes which has boosted my spirits.

I feel like I know what I have to do now and it's just a case of keep doing the same until I reach the destination and beyond. I can see why folks continue the regime long after pfs as there are days here and there I feel better than I remember.

When I first came here I used to get down when I saw people's progress threads and they stopped updating after a while but I can see myself being guilty of the same as once you start feeling good you tend to focus on life and not the condition so I may not update for a few months at the least

[Cdsnuts]

Month two update

Doing really well overall. The anxiety and depression that took hold of me seems to have gone now and the downswings are not anywhere near as bad as before.

Been doing weights from home now and will start to progress with less reps and more weight as per the tmo website. Only thing I need to start is hiit sprinting just trying to find a place I can start running crazy like phoebe from friends haha.

My face which looked bad and considerably worsened months after my crash also looks better as does my skin with my parents even saying they see really positive changes which has boosted my spirits.

I feel like I know what I have to do now and it's just a case of keep doing the same until I reach the destination and beyond. I can see why folks continue the regime long after pfs as there are days here and there I feel better than I remember.

When I first came here I used to get down when I saw people's progress threads and they stopped updating after a while but I can see myself being guilty of the same as once you start feeling good you tend to focus on life and not the condition so I may not update for a few months at the least

Good for you.

And yes, this is why you don't see too many people coming back to update. For that EXACT reason.

Just keep your head down and put the work in. You'll be better then fine before long.

[Comewhatmay]

Hey lads

Been a while since I last updated and I feel I may have done some stupid stuff

For my birthday last month I did have some cake which was fine and then I ended up having more than I should and I felt bad, some anxiety and insomnia came back but it cleared up in less than a week. I was feeling really good and got back to the baslonr I was at and realised that I had a false sense of where i was at with my journey.

Moving on this past week I backloaded with haagen dazs, like a fifth of a tub, during the night and on the Tuesday I felt fine going to sleep a did it again the following night however when going to sleep I felt very jittery and uncomfortable and only managed 4 to 5 hours instead of my usually minimum of 7. I workout in the mornings so I do understand that it isn't optimum for backloading

I feel my sensivity to insulin is now gone to shit as I usually have a banana and clementine after my eggs breakfast which has never been an issue but now it's causing that feeling to come back aswell as some mild kidney pain

I assume I have to give up the fruits now and the back loading aspect which is fine as I caused it but is there anything recommended like a short water fast or is it just a case of following the protocol as I have been minus the sugary stuff

Cheers

[Cdsnuts]

Hey lads

Been a while since I last updated and I feel I may have done some stupid stuff

For my birthday last month I did have some cake which was fine and then I ended up having more than I should and I felt bad, some anxiety and insomnia came back but it cleared up in less than a week. I was feeling really good and got back to the baslonr I was at and realised that I had a false sense of where i was at with my journey.

Moving on this past week I backloaded with haagen dazs, like a fifth of a tub, during the night and on the Tuesday I felt fine going to sleep a did it again the following night however when going to sleep I felt very jittery and uncomfortable and only managed 4 to 5 hours instead of my usually minimum of 7. I workout in the mornings so I do understand that it isn't optimum for backloading

I feel my sensivity to insulin is now gone to shit as I usually have a banana and clementine after my eggs breakfast which has never been an issue but now it's causing that feeling to come back aswell as some mild kidney pain

I assume I have to give up the fruits now and the back loading aspect which is fine as I caused it but is there anything recommended like a short water fast or is it just a case of following the protocol as I have been minus the sugary stuff

Cheers

You don't need to take out the fruit, which is one of the healthiest things you can eat. You need to take out the cake and the garbage which set you back making you feel like shit and throwing things off a bit. when you make those decisions, you always have to pay the piper, one way or the other. So live with the consequences of that decision.

And you don't have to give up backloading. You just have to change your dietary choices. That's it. Your insulin sensitivity hasn't gone to shit from one mistake.

[Comewhatmay]

You don't need to take out the fruit, which is one of the healthiest things you can eat. You need to take out the cake and the garbage which set you back making you feel like shit and throwing things off a bit. when you make those decisions, you always have to pay the piper, one way or the other. So live with the consequences of that decision.

And you don't have to give up backloading. You just have to change your dietary choices. That's it. Your insulin sensitivity hasn't gone to shit from one mistake.

God I hope you are right in that things haven't taken a drastic turn for the worse. My biggest fear was it is the accumulation of the cake and occasional haagan daz once or twice a week after heavy lifting

Been 5 days since having the ice cream and going through harsh downs and slight periods of being okay. It's the lower back pain on either sides of my stomach which is worrying me as I've not had this symptom before as well as cold hands and feet. When I had the cake it was a typical downswing which followed and I was back to baseline after 4 to 5 days.

With the benefit of hindsight there were a few signs that the ice cream wasn't being properly accepted by my body as I would feel my heartbeat vibrate and a bit of a wired feeling and I guess I tipped my body over the edge with my last intake. So I guess I say that to say to anyone reading to listen to your body peeps, if something gives you the slightest harsh reaction drop it as it could accumulate over time no matter how small the intake.

Hoping its just a bad case of inflammation which the paleo diet can fix and nothing too serious. If these issues do persist for a week or so Ill probably get checked out by a doc unless anyone has any recommendations. So frustrating as I was doing so well and feeling really great. Ill take solace in the fact that hopefully once this blows over that there will be no messing about and it will be tunnel vision on the protocol, specifically on the diet, as I've seen first hand how effective it works

[Cdsnuts]

God I hope you are right in that things haven't taken a drastic turn for the worse. My biggest fear was it is the accumulation of the cake and occasional haagan daz once or twice a week after heavy lifting

Been 5 days since having the ice cream and going through harsh downs and slight periods of being okay. It's the lower back pain on either sides of my stomach which is worrying me as I've not had this symptom before as well as cold hands and feet. When I had the cake it was a typical downswing which followed and I was back to baseline after 4 to 5 days.

With the benefit of hindsight there were a few signs that the ice cream wasn't being properly accepted by my body as I would feel my heartbeat vibrate and a bit of a wired feeling and I guess I tipped my body over the edge with my last intake. So I guess I say that to say to anyone reading to listen to your body peeps, if something gives you the slightest harsh reaction drop it as it could accumulate over time no matter how small the intake.

Hoping its just a bad case of inflammation which the paleo diet can fix and nothing too serious. If these issues do persist for a week or so Ill probably get checked out by a doc unless anyone has any recommendations. So frustrating as I was doing so well and feeling really great. Ill take solace in the fact that hopefully once this blows over that there will be no messing about and it will be tunnel vision on the protocol, specifically on the diet, as I've seen first hand how effective it works

Do a short water fast to stop inflammation dead in it's tracks. 3, maybe 4 days, followed by one day of juice, then ease back into the paleo diet.

[Comewhatmay]

Decided to do a short water fast as recommended to get rid of whatever is not going well with me and boy this isn't fun. Heart racing can't sleep and have twitching muscles which I've not had since the original crash.

I was thinking more about how I ended up in this position and realised that it's not the ice cream as much as it could be this new cricket protein powder I purchased which coincidentally I started having the day these issues started.

Early days I remember reading about things like creatine crashing people and think this may have happened to me also. I think my autonic nervous system is all over the place so this sounds like a case of waiting to see which baseline I return to and it seems like it's gonna set me back quite a bit judging by my symptoms which do remind me of where I was when this shit show started. Just came across a thread by pageidol also who seemed to have major issues with magnesium supplement which has many of the same ingredients as the protein powder I bought however I did hear that he's recovered from that so that is reassuring

Somewhat debating if I should continue this waterfast or move into intermittent fasting with a short window as I'm feeling quite weak and lightheaded but willing to power through if necessary.

Overall not heartbroken but dissapointed as I thought adding protein powder would help but I was better off just adding an extra chicken to my plate. However no more playing with what was and is a working formula

[Maxout777]

Definitely always be hesitant with adding things in. Not only do some things hurt, but also you begin to lose track of what is helping vs what isn’t. Which adds to a money pit of supplements. I’d keep pushing through with the fast and then hop back on the wagon. Speaking of pageidol, how is he these days? We were both SP cases back in the day. Always wondered how he got on.

[Comewhatmay]

Thanks for the advice much appreciated

Will attempt to push through with the fast. Currently it's 2am in the morning and this pounding heartrate frustratingly won't let me doze off.

Yeah I mean your right and anything I added was always in small doses or only things I seen help people for example some herbs didn't agree with me so I binned them. I think the issue is when you start feeling great consistently you can get a false sense of where you are and end up resetting yourself or knocking a good chunk percentages off your recovery

In terms of pageidol I'm not sure but I saw a thread where users said they managed to contact him on other platforms and he said that he's recovered from the dark posts of magnesium but not sure if he is out of the pfs whole yet

[Turnover25]

Thanks for the advice much appreciated

Will attempt to push through with the fast. Currently it's 2am in the morning and this pounding heartrate frustratingly won't let me doze off.

Yeah I mean your right and anything I added was always in small doses or only things I seen help people for example some herbs didn't agree with me so I binned them. I think the issue is when you start feeling great consistently you can get a false sense of where you are and end up resetting yourself or knocking a good chunk percentages off your recovery

In terms of pageidol I'm not sure but I saw a thread where users said they managed to contact him on other platforms and he said that he's recovered from the dark posts of magnesium but not sure if he is out of the pfs whole yet

Relax and keep doing what you’re doing brother. I relate to the fast heart rate and insomnia during downswings but it’ll pass. I assure you.

[Comewhatmay]

Thanks for the advice guys appreciated as always.

Hate to admit it to myself but I'm sure that I've definetely recrashed, my face has that squashed in look again, my muscles are becoming wastage and my gut is vibrating like hell which were all hallmarks of my initial crash. Its so frustrating though that me recrashing has come by doing something I thought would be a good addition as apposed to doing stuff I clearly shouldn't be doing, I mean even when I had huge amounts of cake it was just a 4 day downswing and I'd be back to my prior baseline but hey ho. Had another reminder to never search your symptoms as typing in gut vibrating during water fast came back with potential parkinsons amongst others

Not gonna lie one of my biggest fears now is my body not accepting the foods I was eating before this which was paleo with occasional rice and potatoes during back loads.

Starting to feel the lack of energy on this fast today is day three. Initially was going to end it later today as I though I had some inflammation but seeing as it's a full blown crash I may prolong it to 5 and then a week of calthentics followed by lifting 2/3rds of the weight I lifted before this happened and then working my way back to where I was excercise wise week by week.

I do feel that my issue is kidney related as there is pain on both sides and have since read that protein powder is no good for the kidneys long term especially in a body as fragile as mine was and also water fasting isn't good for the kidneys either especially longer than 3 days so I might call it a day and jump on the protocol and hope and pray that I haven't permanently fucked up my kidneys long term. I really hope this is transient and will pass as all I want right now is a chance to have another run at the protocol without any mishaps

[Comewhatmay]

Just to update I went to my hospital last night and had a urine test and it came back negative for a UTI or Kidney Stones which is a big relief. They advised to me to apply ibuprofen gel and paracetamol but I won't do either as the pain is not that bad and definetely manageable plus my sleep seems to be coming back to where I was before this crash.

Question I would like to ask is how would I go about jumping aboard the protocol. Since then I did a 3 day waterfast and today is day 3 of referring so I'm back on board with the paleo pretty much so just wondering would I be okay to go back on the excercise and herbs as well as everything else. I plan to excercise at half the weights I was doing before and rasing them week by week or would it be best to do another extended water fast

[Cdsnuts]

Just to update I went to my hospital last night and had a urine test and it came back negative for a UTI or Kidney Stones which is a big relief. They advised to me to apply ibuprofen gel and paracetamol but I won't do either as the pain is not that bad and definetely manageable plus my sleep seems to be coming back to where I was before this crash.

Question I would like to ask is how would I go about jumping aboard the protocol. Since then I did a 3 day waterfast and today is day 3 of referring so I'm back on board with the paleo pretty much so just wondering would I be okay to go back on the excercise and herbs as well as everything else. I plan to excercise at half the weights I was doing before and rasing them week by week or would it be best to do another extended water fast

Go for it.

[Comewhatmay]

Hey lads

Just to update I'm now pretty much past the crash and returned to a stable baseline minus some issues the crash caused like muscle wastage which I know I'll recover like I was on my way to before.

Unfortunately it seems like a case of when it rains it pours though as I've started displaying covid symptoms. Since a couple days ago I've had a fever and a bad headache and also insomnia as well as the chills. Initially thought it could be a downswing but I've never had one with these symptoms. Have a test booked for later today to be sure.

Bit peeved as my thinking is now had I got it before the crash my body was in better state to deal with it and hopefully that is the case now. I've taken paracetamol(Tylenol) for the fever and headache which helped and will continue to work out if possible but nothing too strenuous

Will continue to stay hydrated as much as possible and still rotate the herbs.

This did get me thinking though. In terms of the vaccine would any of you guys take it?

[Cdsnuts]

Hey lads

Just to update I'm now pretty much past the crash and returned to a stable baseline minus some issues the crash caused like muscle wastage which I know I'll recover like I was on my way to before.

Unfortunately it seems like a case of when it rains it pours though as I've started displaying covid symptoms. Since a couple days ago I've had a fever and a bad headache and also insomnia as well as the chills. Initially thought it could be a downswing but I've never had one with these symptoms. Have a test booked for later today to be sure.

Bit peeved as my thinking is now had I got it before the crash my body was in better state to deal with it and hopefully that is the case now. I've taken paracetamol(Tylenol) for the fever and headache which helped and will continue to work out if possible but nothing too strenuous

Will continue to stay hydrated as much as possible and still rotate the herbs.

This did get me thinking though. In terms of the vaccine would any of you guys take it?

I would never take it......ever.

[MungYarlon]

I would never take it......ever.

How come?

[Cdsnuts]

How come?

I'm wary of pharms to begin with, that's the first reason. Second reason is it's so new. There have not been enough clinical trials and time put into researching and testing it for me to feel comfortable with it. It's like the shotgun vaccine. I'll pass and wait and see what happens to everyone else who get's it first.

[Comewhatmay]

So I found out I'm covid negative which is a relief so it must of just been some kind of virus I had.

Either way I figured once my flu like symptoms had gone I would go back to the protocol but its just one issue after the other. Since the virus I've now had gut issues I've not had previous and I'm sure it's the reason why the last week my sleep has been destroyed and me only managjng 3 hrs at best instead of the usual 7 hours. Gut seems to be okay then during the evening I get minor pains and then lack of sleep. I think the virus must of left some lasting impression on my gut.

Going to start a 4 to 5 say waterfast now to help my gut deal with the inflammation and then jump back on the wagon and hopefully nothing else will jump in my way

[Comewhatmay]

I started a waterfast a day late so today is the start of day two. One thing that is really concerning is my stomach which is constantly pulsating just like my heartbeat and it seems to exacerbate whenever I'm lying down which inevitabley leads to terrible sleep. Not sure what is causing it but I sure hope this water fast can fix it and it's nothing serious.

I had the protein shake crash 3 weeks ago now and seem to got over that via a 3 day fast and everything seemed back to normal whereby I'd just jump back on the protocol but straight after that I got ill with fever symptoms which thankfully wasn't covid and as soon as those symptoms cleared up I know have this stomach issue.

Like I said hopefully this is just the final thing to overcome than I can go back to doing what helped me reach, looking back 30-35% recovered in just over four months

[Mojo]

You might have had the CMV virus flare up. Good chance you had it during childhood already but the virus can flare up during periods of high inflammation. I’ve had the same after fin. I had short periods of flu like symptoms for a few months. Got tested for CMV and sure enough I had recent antibodies.
Nothing to worry about if it is CMV. Sure it sucks and you will feel bad occasionally but it will pass once you reduce inflammation on the protocol.

[Comewhatmay]

You might have had the CMV virus flare up. Good chance you had it during childhood already but the virus can flare up during periods of high inflammation. I’ve had the same after fin. I had short periods of flu like symptoms for a few months. Got tested for CMV and sure enough I had recent antibodies.
Nothing to worry about if it is CMV. Sure it sucks and you will feel bad occasionally but it will pass once you reduce inflammation on the protocol.

Thanks buddy, I sure hope this is CMV or something transient that will pass as soon as I'm back on board. Only remaining issue I have now is this stomach pulse that's disturbing sleep which I did have when I first crashed but I linked back then to anxiety but now I don't have anxiety but it doesn't seem to budge. Reading up on this symptom does no good also has it comes up as matching certain syndromes and anaurisms which isn't fun. Day 3 of the water fast doing okay just lack of energy will go for another 2 days then jump back on and hopefully be where I was

[Mojo]

Anxiety is a strange beast. There was a period when I didn’t notice much mental anxiety but my heart would tickle and flutter, keeping me up at night. This is a common thing with anxiety. In the end a lot of physical ailments stem from deeply rooted anxieties. This is probably just a phase you will have to go through. Some other weird things can pop up like chronic nausea, palpitations, and most likely your stomach tremors. Try not to give it too much thought and power through with a low stress life style. I can relate with a lot of things I read in your history and I can tell you overthinking will only make it drag on. You are on the right track and while you might encounter some speedbumps along the way, you will get through this. Try to put your mind to that. You got this.

[Cdsnuts]

Anxiety is a strange beast. There was a period when I didn’t notice much mental anxiety but my heart would tickle and flutter, keeping me up at night. This is a common thing with anxiety. In the end a lot of physical ailments stem from deeply rooted anxieties. This is probably just a phase you will have to go through. Some other weird things can pop up like chronic nausea, palpitations, and most likely your stomach tremors. Try not to give it too much thought and power through with a low stress life style. I can relate with a lot of things I read in your history and I can tell you overthinking will only make it drag on. You are on the right track and while you might encounter some speedbumps along the way, you will get through this. Try to put your mind to that. You got this.

When feeling anxious like this, the best thing to do is shock the body with a cold shower after doing three or four rounds of breathing exercises. You will notice an immediate difference in your anxiety.

[Mojo]

Definitely. I’ve gotten up in the middle of the night before to take a cold shower. While this sounds like a thing that would wake you up I found it relaxed me enough to go back to sleep.

[Comewhatmay]

Definitely. I’ve gotten up in the middle of the night before to take a cold shower. While this sounds like a thing that would wake you up I found it relaxed me enough to go back to sleep.

Personally I can't have a cold one too late as I'll spend a good hour or two in bed shivering. I would also do the breathing beforehand as I found it makes your body more primed to go in but what I love the most about combining them is the after feeling is enhanced 10 fold.

In terms of my progress I came off a 5 day water fast and after two refeeding days I'm pretty much back to my paleo ways.

The stomach tremors and pulse seems to have subsided which is a huge relief. I plan to resume working out later this week at half the weights I stopped out and progressing incrementally week on week and resuming the herbs and vit d then also.

Weird issue happened today though were I went to the toilet to pee and it came out a dark brown and bloodish colour and it also burned like hell which freaked me out. I think part of this may be the fact that when I started eating after the fast my water consumption dropped from like 3 litres or just over half a litre
But since that morning issue the rest of the day it was fine after I drank more water and the colour was normal and the burning sensation went away.

I went to the gp back when I consumed the excess protein powder and they had a urine dipstick test as I had pain either side of my back and they told me it came back normal and my issues are likely muscoskeletal and not a Urinary tract infection or kidney stones. Will see how it goes the next few days if it comes back then I'll have another test. I hope it's just the body filtering shit out and not an infection as antibiotics is the last thing I need to be taking

[LetsGo]

Personally I can't have a cold one too late as I'll spend a good hour or two in bed shivering. I would also do the breathing beforehand as I found it makes your body more primed to go in but what I love the most about combining them is the after feeling is enhanced 10 fold.

In terms of my progress I came off a 5 day water fast and after two refeeding days I'm pretty much back to my paleo ways.

The stomach tremors and pulse seems to have subsided which is a huge relief. I plan to resume working out later this week at half the weights I stopped out and progressing incrementally week on week and resuming the herbs and vit d then also.

Weird issue happened today though were I went to the toilet to pee and it came out a dark brown and bloodish colour and it also burned like hell which freaked me out. I think part of this may be the fact that when I started eating after the fast my water consumption dropped from like 3 litres or just over half a litre
But since that morning issue the rest of the day it was fine after I drank more water and the colour was normal and the burning sensation went away.

I went to the gp back when I consumed the excess protein powder and they had a urine dipstick test as I had pain either side of my back and they told me it came back normal and my issues are likely muscoskeletal and not a Urinary tract infection or kidney stones. Will see how it goes the next few days if it comes back then I'll have another test. I hope it's just the body filtering shit out and not an infection as antibiotics is the last thing I need to be taking

When you’re taking any type of protein powder, you need to make sure that you’re drinking plenty of water throughout the day. 500 ml of water is not enough for an entire day. You should probably drink about 500 ml of water with each meal, and then also drink a bit more water whenever you feel thirsty throughout the day. If you end up having to urinate every few hours, that’s a lot better than being dehydrated. Dehydration raises cortisol, and elevated cortisol reduces testosterone. So staying hydrated is important to recovering.

[Comewhatmay]

When you’re taking any type of protein powder, you need to make sure that you’re drinking plenty of water throughout the day. 500 ml of water is not enough for an entire day. You should probably drink about 500 ml of water with each meal, and then also drink a bit more water whenever you feel thirsty throughout the day. If you end up having to urinate every few hours, that’s a lot better than being dehydrated. Dehydration raises cortisol, and elevated cortisol reduces testosterone. So staying hydrated is important to recovering.

Makes a lot of sense buddy will definetely up my water intake and set a goal

Unfortunately as feared my sleep has gone again. After steady day on day improvement in my water fast which culminated in 8 hours yesterday I barely managed 3 with no signs of going back for more which was one of the reasons I did the waterfast and didn't power through the protocol. Whenever I was on the verge of sleeping I'd feel this uneasy feeling in my stomach/gut that I know is stopping me.

Hopefully this is an up and downswing as to be honest prior to my mistake I wouldn't really say I suffered with downswings at least none that I could feel, it just seemed like I was at a solid baseline which gradually was on a upward trend

That protein powder crash I'm sure messed up my gut and immune system. The water fast I believe helped my gut tremendously but the fact that I got sick a week after ingesting it and then coming off the fast it seems I may have picked something else up. Everytime I feel I'm on the mend feels like something is around the corner.

I seemed to be doing so well for so long that it's almost hard to believe I'm back in this state but regardless got to keep reminding myself that it's just a phase and also the protocol will fix everything eventually. Weights and herbs here we come

[Cdsnuts]

Makes a lot of sense buddy will definetely up my water intake and set a goal

Unfortunately as feared my sleep has gone again. After steady day on day improvement in my water fast which culminated in 8 hours yesterday I barely managed 3 with no signs of going back for more which was one of the reasons I did the waterfast and didn't power through the protocol. Whenever I was on the verge of sleeping I'd feel this uneasy feeling in my stomach/gut that I know is stopping me.

Hopefully this is an up and downswing as to be honest prior to my mistake I wouldn't really say I suffered with downswings at least none that I could feel, it just seemed like I was at a solid baseline which gradually was on a upward trend

That protein powder crash I'm sure messed up my gut and immune system. The water fast I believe helped my gut tremendously but the fact that I got sick a week after ingesting it and then coming off the fast it seems I may have picked something else up. Everytime I feel I'm on the mend feels like something is around the corner.

I seemed to be doing so well for so long that it's almost hard to believe I'm back in this state but regardless got to keep reminding myself that it's just a phase and also the protocol will fix everything eventually. Weights and herbs here we come

All in man. Not just weights and herbs......ALL OF IT.

[Comewhatmay]

All in man. Not just weights and herbs......ALL OF IT.

My bad I meant weights and herbs on top of the parts of the protocol im doing currently such as paleo, breathing and cold showers etc

[Cdsnuts]

My bad I meant weights and herbs on top of the parts of the protocol im doing currently such as paleo, breathing and cold showers etc

Got it. Good. You'd be surprised at what some guys consider "doing the protocol"

Laughable, unfortunately.

[Comewhatmay]

Got it. Good. You'd be surprised at what some guys consider "doing the protocol"

Laughable, unfortunately.

It's funny but true, I remember when I first came here I was silently reading the forum top to bottom and read a few cases of people doing bits here and there and then shockingly they weren't making much if any progress. I can 100% vouch that this stuff works and the only thing which will inevitably annoy you or potentially have you second guessing things is the time it takes to get to the destination especially when you feel good and are just waiting for symptoms to clear up.I think that's one of the important things to keep in mind once you get out of the initial funk and you're somewhat functional again is that you don't need to switch anything just keep doing what your doing and time will do its thing you just gotta get out of its way

Personally I'm over the worst of the crash I had. Started back on the full protocol last week and feel decent to be fair. Had some shin pain after lunges on leg day so defo overdid it on the weights so will probably take it down to half the weight this week or I might skip it depends on how it feels on the day

[Cdsnuts]

It's funny but true, I remember when I first came here I was silently reading the forum top to bottom and read a few cases of people doing bits here and there and then shockingly they weren't making much if any progress. I can 100% vouch that this stuff works and the only thing which will inevitably annoy you or potentially have you second guessing things is the time it takes to get to the destination especially when you feel good and are just waiting for symptoms to clear up.I think that's one of the important things to keep in mind once you get out of the initial funk and you're somewhat functional again is that you don't need to switch anything just keep doing what your doing and time will do its thing you just gotta get out of its way

Personally I'm over the worst of the crash I had. Started back on the full protocol last week and feel decent to be fair. Had some shin pain after lunges on leg day so defo overdid it on the weights so will probably take it down to half the weight this week or I might skip it depends on how it feels on the day

It's unfortunate that despite ALL of the info here and on TMO, guys will still think they can pick and choose what parts to do and what parts to leave out. It doesn't work that way.

The fact that you get this and understand that, will serve you well and bring you to recovery much faster then not.

Keep at it. You'll get there.

[Comewhatmay]

It's unfortunate that despite ALL of the info here and on TMO, guys will still think they can pick and choose what parts to do and what parts to leave out. It doesn't work that way.

The fact that you get this and understand that, will serve you well and bring you to recovery much faster then not.

Keep at it. You'll get there.

Thanks bro I'm sure I will.

Unfortunately yet again I've had some sort of inflammation flare up after a solid week of weights for 4 days at half the weights I was doing pre crash. Felt fine during the week then started feeling some muscle pain in my chest for a couple days which has how gone and now my gut seems inflamed which seems to always cause insomnia for me.

So frustrating as everything else is in place and the weightlifting which still makes me feel good is causing issues after. I defo agree with Mojo that some kind of virus flares up soon after a crash and I have seen other similar stories of crashes reactivating viruses.

I'm thinking now once this inflammation blows over it might be best to strip it back to beginning with a couple weeks of calisthenics and then start off with low weights like at the beginning and work my way up like before

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks bro I'm sure I will.

Unfortunately yet again I've had some sort of inflammation flare up after a solid week of weights for 4 days at half the weights I was doing pre crash. Felt fine during the week then started feeling some muscle pain in my chest for a couple days which has how gone and now my gut seems inflamed which seems to always cause insomnia for me.

So frustrating as everything else is in place and the weightlifting which still makes me feel good is causing issues after. I defo agree with Mojo that some kind of virus flares up soon after a crash and I have seen other similar stories of crashes reactivating viruses.

I'm thinking now once this inflammation blows over it might be best to strip it back to beginning with a couple weeks of calisthenics and then start off with low weights like at the beginning and work my way up like before

There is nothing wrong with backing it down a bit if you've had a set back. Listen to your body. As long as you're maintaining the outline of the protocol, you'll eventually be fine.

[Comewhatmay]

Hey guys just to update

I'm having weekly fluctuations and it's quite annoying

Basically since I recrashed looking back I realised now I tried to jump back on the horse way to soon and that may be exaggerating my symptoms now.

I decided to take a couple weeks of any excercise and do the protocol minus the weights and then ease myself into calisthenics then weights and next week was when I would have started but annoyingly I feel like I've got some kind of virus or infection. I've got pain either side of my stomach, foamy urine and also since my last weights attempt I've got what I believe is costochondritis where my rib cage feels inflamed and my chest muscles are more apparent.

Oddly enough I had these symptoms soon after my recrash and took a urine dipstick test as I thought I had a uti but was told it was negative and my issues were likely muscoskeletal and the symptoms left but since then and now I've had flu symptoms and in between and I figured as I wasn't doing any excercises I would remain stable which i was last week but now this has hit me out of nowhere. Frustrating aswell as I'm eating anti inflammatory minus some cheese like cheddar and cottage which I've never had issue with so would imagine id get over this

I'm not panicking as much as I would before as I know exactly what to do once this thing blows over but its been over two months since I wouldn't think I'd still be suffering after. I did think to myself these symptoms almost mimick up and downswings how they appear for 4 to 5 days then go for a week but not sure if it applies to infection type symptoms

I know if it is a uti they usually give antibiotics but I know these have negative effects for the body so wouldn't be sure about the alternative

Will likely do a 5 day water fast starting Monday to try kill whatever this is that

[Cdsnuts]

Hey guys just to update

I'm having weekly fluctuations and it's quite annoying

Basically since I recrashed looking back I realised now I tried to jump back on the horse way to soon and that may be exaggerating my symptoms now.

I decided to take a couple weeks of any excercise and do the protocol minus the weights and then ease myself into calisthenics then weights and next week was when I would have started but annoyingly I feel like I've got some kind of virus or infection. I've got pain either side of my stomach, foamy urine and also since my last weights attempt I've got what I believe is costochondritis where my rib cage feels inflamed and my chest muscles are more apparent.

Oddly enough I had these symptoms soon after my recrash and took a urine dipstick test as I thought I had a uti but was told it was negative and my issues were likely muscoskeletal and the symptoms left but since then and now I've had flu symptoms and in between and I figured as I wasn't doing any excercises I would remain stable which i was last week but now this has hit me out of nowhere. Frustrating aswell as I'm eating anti inflammatory minus some cheese like cheddar and cottage which I've never had issue with so would imagine id get over this

I'm not panicking as much as I would before as I know exactly what to do once this thing blows over but its been over two months since I wouldn't think I'd still be suffering after. I did think to myself these symptoms almost mimick up and downswings how they appear for 4 to 5 days then go for a week but not sure if it applies to infection type symptoms

I know if it is a uti they usually give antibiotics but I know these have negative effects for the body so wouldn't be sure about the alternative

Will likely do a 5 day water fast starting Monday to try kill whatever this is that

A five day water fast as a tune up would be a great idea......go for it.

[Comewhatmay]

Hey fellow fighters

Figured I'd update as it's been a while. Good news is I've finally gotten over whatever muscoskeletal issue I was having as now I can workout and feel the normal aches and pains as opposed to the muscle pain I'd feel after for 2 or so weeks so I can finally restart on the weights side of the protocol.

Ramadan definetely help get over this as doing intermittent fasting for 30 days eating in a 4 hour window seemed to kill the issue which is a relief and I just completed my first week back at the gym doing 4 days.

In those 5 or so months without the weights I did still see some improvements just based off everything else on the protocol specifically my face which looks more and more like it used to and my jawline starting to stick out more and just generally a better looking face especially compared my previous crash where I was back to square one in that department

I'd like the takeaway for anyone reading this to be if you are going to add stuff into the protocol PLEASE make sure you take even a quarter of the dose and assess your reaction to it
It was a protein shake which caused this bad reaction for me but it didn't help that I took 40g which I've learned after was way too much and not too say that protein shakes don't have their place here it's more just saying that, especially for newbies, you'll inevitably be strict with the protocol through the first month or two but once the tide starts to turn you'll find that you want to try new things which could have benefits but like I've seen CD stress in some threads stick to what is working as any other supplement isn't likely to speed up your recovery you are better off just sticking to what is working

Will look to update in another few months with updates

[Michael]

Hey fellow fighters

Figured I'd update as it's been a while. Good news is I've finally gotten over whatever muscoskeletal issue I was having as now I can workout and feel the normal aches and pains as opposed to the muscle pain I'd feel after for 2 or so weeks so I can finally restart on the weights side of the protocol.

Ramadan definetely help get over this as doing intermittent fasting for 30 days eating in a 4 hour window seemed to kill the issue which is a relief and I just completed my first week back at the gym doing 4 days.

In those 5 or so months without the weights I did still see some improvements just based off everything else on the protocol specifically my face which looks more and more like it used to and my jawline starting to stick out more and just generally a better looking face especially compared my previous crash where I was back to square one in that department

I'd like the takeaway for anyone reading this to be if you are going to add stuff into the protocol PLEASE make sure you take even a quarter of the dose and assess your reaction to it
It was a protein shake which caused this bad reaction for me but it didn't help that I took 40g which I've learned after was way too much and not too say that protein shakes don't have their place here it's more just saying that, especially for newbies, you'll inevitably be strict with the protocol through the first month or two but once the tide starts to turn you'll find that you want to try new things which could have benefits but like I've seen CD stress in some threads stick to what is working as any other supplement isn't likely to speed up your recovery you are better off just sticking to what is working

Will look to update in another few months with updates

Congrats bro ! The face thing scared me a lot too and your face story sounds 100% like mine ! Thanks for the update, really helped me out.

[Comewhatmay]

Congrats bro ! The face thing scared me a lot too and your face story sounds 100% like mine ! Thanks for the update, really helped me out.

Thanks Michael, I remember being in your position not that long ago panicking and frantically looking for any cases similar which turned out for the better.

Damn's post on physical recoveries really helped me in the dark days and I'm glad mine can do the same for you

[Cdsnuts]

Congrats bro ! The face thing scared me a lot too and your face story sounds 100% like mine ! Thanks for the update, really helped me out.

You're in the right place. Read this forum, read TMO and APPLY all that you learn. Do so consistently and you will EVENTUALLY be good as new

[Comewhatmay]

Hey warriors

Just come back for some advice or guidance. Not sure if this happens to anyone else but for the past few days out of nowhere I have struggled with my ability to go to sleep and then stay asleep.

For the past few months I've been sleeping really good around 7 hrs total but since the past 3 to 4 days I struggle going to sleep which has never happened apart from the begginging of this nightmare and even I can't stay asleep beyond an hour and I'm totalling just like 4 hours if I'm lucky plus I don't even get tired late like I used to. Just a bit alarmed as it's come out of nowhere and there isn't really anything I can pinpoint this down to.

I hope this is just a downswing rearing it's ugly head but any downswing I've had felt like it was behind the scenes and it's important I also note that before this I was on the up and up and everything was really good and even with the lack of sleep I don't have the depression and anxiety that inevitably followed it like before now it's just a heavy head feeling and a headache. My hope is in about a few days to a week my sleep will be better than before as with previous downswings but yeah kinda crazy something like this can hit out of nowhere. Still got some albizia from the beginning and blue vervain so will probably dose both before bed tonight and hope for the best

[Maxout777]

Hey warriors

Just come back for some advice or guidance. Not sure if this happens to anyone else but for the past few days out of nowhere I have struggled with my ability to go to sleep and then stay asleep.

For the past few months I've been sleeping really good around 7 hrs total but since the past 3 to 4 days I struggle going to sleep which has never happened apart from the begginging of this nightmare and even I can't stay asleep beyond an hour and I'm totalling just like 4 hours if I'm lucky plus I don't even get tired late like I used to. Just a bit alarmed as it's come out of nowhere and there isn't really anything I can pinpoint this down to.

I hope this is just a downswing rearing it's ugly head but any downswing I've had felt like it was behind the scenes and it's important I also note that before this I was on the up and up and everything was really good and even with the lack of sleep I don't have the depression and anxiety that inevitably followed it like before now it's just a heavy head feeling and a headache. My hope is in about a few days to a week my sleep will be better than before as with previous downswings but yeah kinda crazy something like this can hit out of nowhere. Still got some albizia from the beginning and blue vervain so will probably dose both before bed tonight and hope for the best

Yeah sleep in downswings can be difficult to manage if you've gotten used to being able to sleep well in an upswing. The best thing that happened for me reference sleep and a supplement was glycine, during my recovery. 5g, thirty minutes before bed, and I could sleep right well during any downswing.

[Turnover25]

Hey warriors

Just come back for some advice or guidance. Not sure if this happens to anyone else but for the past few days out of nowhere I have struggled with my ability to go to sleep and then stay asleep.

For the past few months I've been sleeping really good around 7 hrs total but since the past 3 to 4 days I struggle going to sleep which has never happened apart from the begginging of this nightmare and even I can't stay asleep beyond an hour and I'm totalling just like 4 hours if I'm lucky plus I don't even get tired late like I used to. Just a bit alarmed as it's come out of nowhere and there isn't really anything I can pinpoint this down to.

I hope this is just a downswing rearing it's ugly head but any downswing I've had felt like it was behind the scenes and it's important I also note that before this I was on the up and up and everything was really good and even with the lack of sleep I don't have the depression and anxiety that inevitably followed it like before now it's just a heavy head feeling and a headache. My hope is in about a few days to a week my sleep will be better than before as with previous downswings but yeah kinda crazy something like this can hit out of nowhere. Still got some albizia from the beginning and blue vervain so will probably dose both before bed tonight and hope for the best

Glycine is great for sleep, Albezia as well. Not if this will help either but maybe try waking up and hitting the gym in the am so you’re more worn out at night. I know during downswings that method might not always help though.

[Outlaw]

Hey warriors

Just come back for some advice or guidance. Not sure if this happens to anyone else but for the past few days out of nowhere I have struggled with my ability to go to sleep and then stay asleep.

For the past few months I've been sleeping really good around 7 hrs total but since the past 3 to 4 days I struggle going to sleep which has never happened apart from the begginging of this nightmare and even I can't stay asleep beyond an hour and I'm totalling just like 4 hours if I'm lucky plus I don't even get tired late like I used to. Just a bit alarmed as it's come out of nowhere and there isn't really anything I can pinpoint this down to.

I hope this is just a downswing rearing it's ugly head but any downswing I've had felt like it was behind the scenes and it's important I also note that before this I was on the up and up and everything was really good and even with the lack of sleep I don't have the depression and anxiety that inevitably followed it like before now it's just a heavy head feeling and a headache. My hope is in about a few days to a week my sleep will be better than before as with previous downswings but yeah kinda crazy something like this can hit out of nowhere. Still got some albizia from the beginning and blue vervain so will probably dose both before bed tonight and hope for the best
I never had problems like yours regarding sleep, but since using Glycine and Magnesium before bed the quality of my sleep really improved. Coupled with my evening cold shower and breathing exercises, it's a good combo

[Comewhatmay]

Thanks for the responses as always people, much appreciated.

I do want to try the glycine but that pageidol thread always pops up and I know otherwise there is nothing but good things said about glycine I would hate myself if I crashed from it especially as I did recently crash from 40g of protein powder so I am admittedly extremely wary of what I put in my body to avoid that nightmare again

Thankfully since that post my sleep seems to slowly be coming back to where it was similar to previous downswings where over the course of 3 to 5 days it creeps back to where it was. I guess it was just the shock of it happening as like I mentioned before I didnt experience that for a good 5 or so months. I do believe that sleeping next to my phone could have caused it and sometimes I have a stupid habit of sleeping right beside my laptop which I have now made sure to stop to ensure I give my body the best chance to sleep best as possible.

Lastly I'm going to make more of an effort to post the positive stuff as to be honest other than that hiccup I've been doing really well. I feel good day to day, my facial structure is visibly returning to where it was pre crash and the ED has come on leaps and bounds compared to when I crashed and its so easy to post the bad shit but we overlook the positives and its good for the people viewing and unfortunately those who will inevitably come after us to see this positivity and that no matter how bad it is at that time it will get better undoubtedly

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the responses as always people, much appreciated.

I do want to try the glycine but that pageidol thread always pops up and I know otherwise there is nothing but good things said about glycine I would hate myself if I crashed from it especially as I did recently crash from 40g of protein powder so I am admittedly extremely wary of what I put in my body to avoid that nightmare again

Thankfully since that post my sleep seems to slowly be coming back to where it was similar to previous downswings where over the course of 3 to 5 days it creeps back to where it was. I guess it was just the shock of it happening as like I mentioned before I didnt experience that for a good 5 or so months. I do believe that sleeping next to my phone could have caused it and sometimes I have a stupid habit of sleeping right beside my laptop which I have now made sure to stop to ensure I give my body the best chance to sleep best as possible.

Lastly I'm going to make more of an effort to post the positive stuff as to be honest other than that hiccup I've been doing really well. I feel good day to day, my facial structure is visibly returning to where it was pre crash and the ED has come on leaps and bounds compared to when I crashed and its so easy to post the bad shit but we overlook the positives and its good for the people viewing and unfortunately those who will inevitably come after us to see this positivity and that no matter how bad it is at that time it will get better undoubtedly

I really should just delete that post because he's just completely full of shit. Glycine is basically harmless, like sugar. It even taste sweet.

[Maxout777]

Pageidol also used gelatin and not glycine and really amplified his already bad glutamate issues. If you end up with high glutamate like he might have done, he could really have ended up in bad shape. But it’s key to remember there IS a difference between gelatin and glycine.

[Comewhatmay]

Thanks for the reassurance guys much appreciated. Should I have any sleep issues I'll go for the glycine

On another note i was hoping for some advice as I've had (my last) setback of my own doing

I was at a work function and the team went for pizzas after and I ordered a gluten free pizza which was really my first take away of any kind since being hit with this

Anyway had the pizza and felt fine but then just before bed I felt slight pain left side of my neck which is maybe the thyroid but went to sleep fine and then in the afternoon yesterday when I went toilet went to wipe I noticed bright red blood which alarmed me as I've never had anything like this apart from after my protein shake crash I had bloody pee but that went away.

The bloody stool happened twice yesterday and then this morning. I don't really have a stomach ache or pain. Obviously googling this brings up stuff no one wants to hear but I doubt it's something serious as like I said everything was really good up until this point and the gluten free pizza is the only change in about 8 months. Admittidley I should add I did have the pizza on a day where I didn't work out so I think that couldn't help

Just wanted any advice really, would super appreciate. Hopefully by this time next week it will clear up

[biatch]

Thanks for the reassurance guys much appreciated. Should I have any sleep issues I'll go for the glycine

On another note i was hoping for some advice as I've had (my last) setback of my own doing

I was at a work function and the team went for pizzas after and I ordered a gluten free pizza which was really my first take away of any kind since being hit with this

Anyway had the pizza and felt fine but then just before bed I felt slight pain left side of my neck which is maybe the thyroid but went to sleep fine and then in the afternoon yesterday when I went toilet went to wipe I noticed bright red blood which alarmed me as I've never had anything like this apart from after my protein shake crash I had bloody pee but that went away.

The bloody stool happened twice yesterday and then this morning. I don't really have a stomach ache or pain. Obviously googling this brings up stuff no one wants to hear but I doubt it's something serious as like I said everything was really good up until this point and the gluten free pizza is the only change in about 8 months. Admittidley I should add I did have the pizza on a day where I didn't work out so I think that couldn't help

Just wanted any advice really, would super appreciate. Hopefully by this time next week it will clear up

Blood in stool 99% is coming from colon, so you could have an irritable colon or Ulcerative colitis…
I’m telling you this cause I do have UC and in general blood in stool is a clear sign of this illness.
To have a test about inflammatory marker for this you should test named “calprotectin”.. go for a check!

[RoadToRecovery]

Thanks for the reassurance guys much appreciated. Should I have any sleep issues I'll go for the glycine

On another note i was hoping for some advice as I've had (my last) setback of my own doing

I was at a work function and the team went for pizzas after and I ordered a gluten free pizza which was really my first take away of any kind since being hit with this

Anyway had the pizza and felt fine but then just before bed I felt slight pain left side of my neck which is maybe the thyroid but went to sleep fine and then in the afternoon yesterday when I went toilet went to wipe I noticed bright red blood which alarmed me as I've never had anything like this apart from after my protein shake crash I had bloody pee but that went away.

The bloody stool happened twice yesterday and then this morning. I don't really have a stomach ache or pain. Obviously googling this brings up stuff no one wants to hear but I doubt it's something serious as like I said everything was really good up until this point and the gluten free pizza is the only change in about 8 months. Admittidley I should add I did have the pizza on a day where I didn't work out so I think that couldn't help

Just wanted any advice really, would super appreciate. Hopefully by this time next week it will clear up

Don't instantly assume the worst. I had this problem when I was younger. Turned out I had a small tear in my anus. It went away on it's own after a long time. Don't laugh btw.

[Comewhatmay]

Don't instantly assume the worst. I had this problem when I was younger. Turned out I had a small tear in my anus. It went away on it's own after a long time. Don't laugh btw.

Thanks dude. I'll take the reassurance any which way it comes and similarly to you I think it was just some colon inflammation as its all back to normal now thankfully

QUOTE=biatch;69847]Blood in stool 99% is coming from colon, so you could have an irritable colon or Ulcerative colitis…
I’m telling you this cause I do have UC and in general blood in stool is a clear sign of this illness.
To have a test about inflammatory marker for this you should test named “calprotectin”.. go for a check![/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info my man. Had the issue continued I would of looked into this although it seems even if this was the case the way to fix it would be the same as what we're all doing now

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks dude. I'll take the reassurance any which way it comes and similarly to you I think it was just some colon inflammation as its all back to normal now thankfully

QUOTE=biatch;69847]Blood in stool 99% is coming from colon, so you could have an irritable colon or Ulcerative colitis…
I’m telling you this cause I do have UC and in general blood in stool is a clear sign of this illness.
To have a test about inflammatory marker for this you should test named “calprotectin”.. go for a check!

[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info my man. Had the issue continued I would of looked into this although it seems even if this was the case the way to fix it would be the same as what we're all doing now[/QUOTE]

Correct.

[Comewhatmay]

Hey Ultimate Warriors,

Figured I'd give an update to this as it's been a while and I always said especially in my times of complete dispair with this that when I start feeling better I'd let the forum know and not just go silent even though naturally when you start feeling better you do pull yourself away from PFS related talk

I'm doing really well most days I feel really good and forget I even have PFS. I can see what previous PFS guys mean when they say the last 20-30% is the longest as my trajectory to recover has been steadfast but now its more nagging along but im now in a place where I could comfortably wait however long it takes such is the mental space I'm in

Keep in keeping on

[Comewhatmay]

Hey Legends,

As i hope you all would of realised based of the time and tone of my last post i have fully recovered from PFS. From my last post id say it took my another 5 or so months to fully lock the recovery in but am really grateful to all those who helped me get there. Annoyingly i did a recovery post which took me a while but i got timed out so it didnt save but its important that i do it and will definetely soon as i cant forget what i titled my thread 3 years ago when i was in the depths of it.

[Readytonut]

Hey Legends,

As i hope you all would of realised based of the time and tone of my last post i have fully recovered from PFS. From my last post id say it took my another 5 or so months to fully lock the recovery in but am really grateful to all those who helped me get there. Annoyingly i did a recovery post which took me a while but i got timed out so it didnt save but its important that i do it and will definetely soon as i cant forget what i titled my thread 3 years ago when i was in the depths of it.

Hey Comewhatmay,

First of congrats on your recovery. I would love to read about your recovery story and things that you did to improve your situation. I would also appreciate it if you could share your supplement and herb rotation. I'm very interested in your journey.

[Mjw1999]

Hey Legends,

As i hope you all would of realised based of the time and tone of my last post i have fully recovered from PFS. From my last post id say it took my another 5 or so months to fully lock the recovery in but am really grateful to all those who helped me get there. Annoyingly i did a recovery post which took me a while but i got timed out so it didnt save but its important that i do it and will definetely soon as i cant forget what i titled my thread 3 years ago when i was in the depths of it.

Thanks for coming back and taking the time to post. Congratulations! It’s great to have some positivity again on the form and it’s much appreciated!
Take care and enjoy life👍

[Cdsnuts]

Hey Legends,

As i hope you all would of realised based of the time and tone of my last post i have fully recovered from PFS. From my last post id say it took my another 5 or so months to fully lock the recovery in but am really grateful to all those who helped me get there. Annoyingly i did a recovery post which took me a while but i got timed out so it didnt save but its important that i do it and will definetely soon as i cant forget what i titled my thread 3 years ago when i was in the depths of it.

Congrats man!

Please be sure to give back and share your experience with a recovery post. That's the most important post you'll ever make!

[Zerolibido]

Well done somewhat you I seem a good guy

Awor

Allen Worthington

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Allen Worthington - Head of IT at KKL Luzern | The Org (https://theorg.com/org/kkl-luzern/org-chart/allen-worthington)