Flamingpie's Road to Recovery

[flamingpie]

Hey all! Long time lurker here. First off, I love all the positivity on this forum. You might recognize my username from that other toxic forum. That place was just swimming with negativity, and I couldn't take it anymore. I think I might've been better off never visiting that site.
Well my plan here was to not make a single post until I was recovered. Sadly that's not the case yet, but I figured I should just start posting anyway as a way to speak out loud about my journey (instead of keeping it bottled inside with no one to talk to).

I should add that I have made tremendous progress over the last 18 months! Over the last year and a half I've gone through many periods of brief 100% recovery, once lasting for over 2 months. Still seems like I've got a ways to go until I never have to think about this again, but I'm working my way there! I've been battling PFS for 11 years now, and it's crazy to look back and realize just how far I was even 6 years ago. Happy to say that on most days now I get morning wood and spontaneous erections at random points in the day. Libido is still kinda low, and my erections could be stronger. Also seeing other positive changes like deeper sleeps, vivid dreams, regular bowel movements, and more energy. Also I'm definitely in the best shape of my life, and if I never got PFS I don't think I would've ever been so into physical fitness like I am now.

I'm basically doing everything that's recommended. I've been gluten free for 9 years and nut free for 5 years, both doctors orders based on other autoimmune disorders that I have. My diet is super healthy, getting a healthy dose of veggies, fruits, meat, eggs, white rice, oatmeal and sweet potatoes. Also eat greek yogurt (it's my only dairy in my diet). Cycle herbs, workout 4 times a week, do skin brushing, take cold showers, you know the drill.

I'll stop rambling now, just wanted to introduce myself. I did have 1 question for the forum, though. I used to include 5g of creatine as part of my herb rotation, but last week I started taking it after every workout (4x a week). When I took it once per cycle I felt like I noticed improvements, but ever since I cranked it up to 4x a week I actually had a couple of days where I didn't wake up with morning wood (something that I've had pretty consistently this year). Is this just a coincidence, or should I be slowing down on the creatine? Does anyone here take it everyday? I was excited about the potential gains it could lead to in the gym, but it's not worth it if it's gonna mess with my recovery. Thanks guys!

[Maxout777]

Welcome man, glad to see you on this forum and on the track now.

I read your story quite a bit when I first crashed in 2016, as I was a saw palmetto case as well. Your story gave me a good bit of hope, as you had seemed to persevere for a long time through some really crappy times and symptoms. Glad to hear your doing almost 100% better! Please let me know if you ever need anything.

Regarding creatine, some seem to be able to use it just fine, others can't. I used creatine HCL at CD's recommendation and seemed to tolerate it just fine. I eventually binned it as I didn't like the longer term use of it as far as kidneys go, as I have kidney issues that run in the family.

[flamingpie]

Thanks man! Damn, another Saw Palmetto victim, this shit is the worst! I'm happy to see you've been having success as well, this is just temporary!
Yeah, I think I'm gonna chill with the creatine for now. Doesn't seem like it was essential to a lot of the recoveries I've been reading. I have noticed, however, that A LOT of people have been taking Pine Pollen powder daily with success. I was only cycling that. Think starting today I'm gonna do 2 teaspoons a day and see how that works out!

[Maxout777]

Thanks man! Damn, another Saw Palmetto victim, this shit is the worst! I'm happy to see you've been having success as well, this is just temporary!
Yeah, I think I'm gonna chill with the creatine for now. Doesn't seem like it was essential to a lot of the recoveries I've been reading. I have noticed, however, that A LOT of people have been taking Pine Pollen powder daily with success. I was only cycling that. Think starting today I'm gonna do 2 teaspoons a day and see how that works out!

Indeed. My thread is buried on this forum but everything I did and my experiences is in that. I considered myself recovered from SP PFS about 18-20 months on the program. Now, everything I do is for general health improvements for the most part. Trying to limit a stressful life from killing me dead, lol.

You’ll get there man, keep at it!

[flamingpie]

I'm now 14 days into taking Pine Pollen daily. It's been interesting so far. First 4 days nothing too crazy, although I did notice my flaccid state looked, er, fuller. But by Day 5, holy shit. From days 5 to 8 my libido was through the roof! Well, at least compared to how it's been since PFS. I was waking up and getting mid day random erections that felt like they'd cut through my pants lmao. Unfortunately that didn't last forever, as from day 9 to now I've basically been feeling the same as I did before I started taking it daily. I was taking 2 teaspoons a day, so today I upped it to 3 teaspoons. We'll see how that works out. Should I be upping the dose, or lowering the dose? Also I saw some people write that while they say they take it daily, they actually skip a couple days during the week. Should I be taking a break mid week, or over the weekend or something?

[Maxout777]

I'm now 14 days into taking Pine Pollen daily. It's been interesting so far. First 4 days nothing too crazy, although I did notice my flaccid state looked, er, fuller. But by Day 5, holy shit. From days 5 to 8 my libido was through the roof! Well, at least compared to how it's been since PFS. I was waking up and getting mid day random erections that felt like they'd cut through my pants lmao. Unfortunately that didn't last forever, as from day 9 to now I've basically been feeling the same as I did before I started taking it daily. I was taking 2 teaspoons a day, so today I upped it to 3 teaspoons. We'll see how that works out. Should I be upping the dose, or lowering the dose? Also I saw some people write that while they say they take it daily, they actually skip a couple days during the week. Should I be taking a break mid week, or over the weekend or something?

You can take it every day, just keep an eye on it if you're doing a high dosage. My personal experience is I am very sensitive to things that touch potassium, and Pine Pollen definitely does that due to the Androsterone content and other compounds naturally occurring inside of it.

This can easily be remedied with coconut water, bananas, etc without the need for a potassium supplement. I do this every time I run a supplement/compound that is prone to loss of potassium, especially since my workouts are pretty demanding 4/5 times a week to begin with.

[flamingpie]

Sounds good thanks for the tip! I have 1-2 bananas a day so hopefully my potassium levels are ok.

[Ravmeena]

When did you start cd's protocol

[flamingpie]

These last 5 weeks have been a roller coaster. I had a week and a half of feeling absolutely fantastic. Then things leveled off, and then earlier this week I had the 4 worst days I've experienced in years. It felt like my body was completely shutting down at one point. I had quickly upped my daily pine pollen dosage from 1 tsp to 3, and I think maybe that caught my body off guard? Who knows! For now I lowered it back to 1 tsp a day and I've gotten back to baseline these last couple days.

Need some advice here! I finished up my maca and butea, and it's time to add some stuff back to the herb cycle. I don't think I wanna replace the maca cuz I always felt the worst when I took that. I never really noticed a difference with the butea, so if there's anything better everyone recommends I'll try something new. Honestly I'm kinda on a budget now, so I'm hoping whatever I add next is affordable! I was thinking of picking up three new herbs, either mucuna, horny goat weed, pine pollen tincture, shilijat and butea. Which of these does everything think should be a staple in everyone's herb rotation?

I've also been looking into both the bathmate and ultrahard. But honestly I still don't think I understand what PH are. I'll need to do a bit more research before I consider that.

[Maxout777]

These last 5 weeks have been a roller coaster. I had a week and a half of feeling absolutely fantastic. Then things leveled off, and then earlier this week I had the 4 worst days I've experienced in years. It felt like my body was completely shutting down at one point. I had quickly upped my daily pine pollen dosage from 1 tsp to 3, and I think maybe that caught my body off guard? Who knows! For now I lowered it back to 1 tsp a day and I've gotten back to baseline these last couple days.

Need some advice here! I finished up my maca and butea, and it's time to add some stuff back to the herb cycle. I don't think I wanna replace the maca cuz I always felt the worst when I took that. I never really noticed a difference with the butea, so if there's anything better everyone recommends I'll try something new. Honestly I'm kinda on a budget now, so I'm hoping whatever I add next is affordable! I was thinking of picking up three new herbs, either mucuna, horny goat weed, pine pollen tincture, shilijat and butea. Which of these does everything think should be a staple in everyone's herb rotation?

I've also been looking into both the bathmate and ultrahard. But honestly I still don't think I understand what PH are. I'll need to do a bit more research before I consider that.

Could potentially be the hypokalemia sides I was warning you about with the Pine Pollen. If you've ever experience hypokalemia, it's hell. It's very similar to certain early days PFS symptoms.

Additionally, I never could get Maca to ever bide well with me, so I binned it. I don't think it's worth pushing the envelope on. Of those you mentioned, if I was picking three based on my own personal experience, it would be mucuna, shilajit, and tincture.

[Turnover25]

Could potentially be the hypokalemia sides I was warning you about with the Pine Pollen. If you've ever experience hypokalemia, it's hell. It's very similar to certain early days PFS symptoms.

Additionally, I never could get Maca to ever bide well with me, so I binned it. I don't think it's worth pushing the envelope on. Of those you mentioned, if I was picking three based on my own personal experience, it would be mucuna, shilajit, and tincture.

Hypokalemia is hell. When my potassium is low I get anxiety, bad anhedonia, insomnia, all sorts of stuff. I think that a PFS crash has something to do with low electrolytes, just based on my past experiences and slowly figuring out what was going on. It’s a weird thing though because hyperkalemia can sometimes mirror hypokalemia, I run into the issue sometimes with “No salt” because it’s easy to over do potassium in salt form.

[flamingpie]

Could potentially be the hypokalemia sides I was warning you about with the Pine Pollen. If you've ever experience hypokalemia, it's hell. It's very similar to certain early days PFS symptoms.

Additionally, I never could get Maca to ever bide well with me, so I binned it. I don't think it's worth pushing the envelope on. Of those you mentioned, if I was picking three based on my own personal experience, it would be mucuna, shilajit, and tincture.

Wow man I just looked up the symptoms of hypokalemia, that might've been it! Damn you weren't kidding! The symptom that popped out right away was heart palpitations. I swear there was a day that I thought I was having a heart attack my heart was pounding so fast. And then oddly the next day it was the complete opposite, I was incredibly drained and I felt so weak.
When you experienced hypokalemia was your strategy to lower the pp, or to raise your potassium intake? Or both?
And I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a bad experience with Maca. Thanks for the tips! I think I'm gonna definitely order mucuna now (it's the cheapest) and later in the month get the tincture and shilajit.

[Maxout777]

Wow man I just looked up the symptoms of hypokalemia, that might've been it! Damn you weren't kidding! The symptom that popped out right away was heart palpitations. I swear there was a day that I thought I was having a heart attack my heart was pounding so fast. And then oddly the next day it was the complete opposite, I was incredibly drained and I felt so weak.
When you experienced hypokalemia was your strategy to lower the pp, or to raise your potassium intake? Or both?
And I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a bad experience with Maca. Thanks for the tips! I think I'm gonna definitely order mucuna now (it's the cheapest) and later in the month get the tincture and shilajit.

A mixture of both until you can find a sweet spot to be honest. I try to make sure that anytime I’m taking a compound that can cause hypokalemia that I get a bunch of potassium rich food intake. Better through food than supplementation.

[Cdsnuts]

I may as well just go back on vacation. Maxoutt......you got this, right? Lol

[Maxout777]

I may as well just go back on vacation. Maxoutt......you got this, right? Lol

Give em an inch and they’ll take a mile..... lol.

In all seriousness, glad to be back helping out where I can.

[Cdsnuts]

Give em an inch and they’ll take a mile..... lol.

In all seriousness, glad to be back helping out where I can.

Glad you're back buddy.

[flamingpie]

Maxoutt is my sensei, he can't ever leave!

[Maxout777]

Maxoutt is my sensei, he can't ever leave!

I'm here for you my friend - keep on, keeping on!

[flamingpie]

It's been almost 2 months since my last update, so I figured I'd check in. Unfortunately the last 4 days have been absolute hell, but before that I went like 5 weeks of feeling absolutely fantastic! So let's start there.
I said a couple of months ago I was experiencing what I'm guessing was hypokalemia from taking Pine Pollen, so I reduced my daily intake from 2-3 tsp to 1 tsp. Within a day I felt great again. But then after a couple of weeks I kinda felt that feeling again, so I reduced it even more 1 tsp every Monday-Wednesday-Friday. Boom! That was the sweet spot. I felt absolutely amazing. I probably went 4 weeks straight with morning wood. But not just weak morning wood that disappeared once my feet hit the floor. This time it stayed for a minute or so after leaving bed. On top of that I would get the random erection throughout the day. My libido was back. Funny, I used to think no fap was such an easy thing to do, but during these few weeks of feeling normal that shit was impossible! lol I couldn't go more than 2 days. It felt like I was getting my life back.
But then 4 days ago things went to shit again. I woke up on Friday with my typical morning wood, but within an hour of being awake I started feeling off again. Similar feeling to what I'm assuming was hypokalemia last month. My body got freezing cold, my balls shriveled up, my head was pounding and my I felt so lethargic. It lasted pretty much the entire weekend. I would sleep like 9 hours, and then after a few hours of being awake I'd want to go to sleep again. And my junk remained shriveled up. Obviously no more morning wood, no more random erections. I thought I was seeing signs yesterday of getting better but then today I felt just as shitty. Is it possible that I just have a terrible reaction to Pine Pollen? I have a pretty good amount of potassium in my diet. I track my food on myfitnesspal and I always hit the daily requirement, sometimes go over it.
I think I'm gonna go the rest of the week without Pine Pollen and see what happens. This is particularly scary cuz not only did I just have like 5 amazing weeks, but also I don't think I've felt this terrible in like 4 years. But I don't want this post to seem like a downer, on the plus side I swear before this I was feeling amazing! I wanna chase that high again. I added murcuna to my herb cycle recently and I had a great reaction to it. I also just ordered shilajit, I hear amazing things about that herb so I'm excited to try that! I still wanna add one more herb. I know people always say good things about the PP tincture. Maybe I'll stop taking the powder so regularly, and add it as a cycled herb along with the tincture.

[Cdsnuts]

It's been almost 2 months since my last update, so I figured I'd check in. Unfortunately the last 4 days have been absolute hell, but before that I went like 5 weeks of feeling absolutely fantastic! So let's start there.
I said a couple of months ago I was experiencing what I'm guessing was hypokalemia from taking Pine Pollen, so I reduced my daily intake from 2-3 tsp to 1 tsp. Within a day I felt great again. But then after a couple of weeks I kinda felt that feeling again, so I reduced it even more 1 tsp every Monday-Wednesday-Friday. Boom! That was the sweet spot. I felt absolutely amazing. I probably went 4 weeks straight with morning wood. But not just weak morning wood that disappeared once my feet hit the floor. This time it stayed for a minute or so after leaving bed. On top of that I would get the random erection throughout the day. My libido was back. Funny, I used to think no fap was such an easy thing to do, but during these few weeks of feeling normal that shit was impossible! lol I couldn't go more than 2 days. It felt like I was getting my life back.
But then 4 days ago things went to shit again. I woke up on Friday with my typical morning wood, but within an hour of being awake I started feeling off again. Similar feeling to what I'm assuming was hypokalemia last month. My body got freezing cold, my balls shriveled up, my head was pounding and my I felt so lethargic. It lasted pretty much the entire weekend. I would sleep like 9 hours, and then after a few hours of being awake I'd want to go to sleep again. And my junk remained shriveled up. Obviously no more morning wood, no more random erections. I thought I was seeing signs yesterday of getting better but then today I felt just as shitty. Is it possible that I just have a terrible reaction to Pine Pollen? I have a pretty good amount of potassium in my diet. I track my food on myfitnesspal and I always hit the daily requirement, sometimes go over it.
I think I'm gonna go the rest of the week without Pine Pollen and see what happens. This is particularly scary cuz not only did I just have like 5 amazing weeks, but also I don't think I've felt this terrible in like 4 years. But I don't want this post to seem like a downer, on the plus side I swear before this I was feeling amazing! I wanna chase that high again. I added murcuna to my herb cycle recently and I had a great reaction to it. I also just ordered shilajit, I hear amazing things about that herb so I'm excited to try that! I still wanna add one more herb. I know people always say good things about the PP tincture. Maybe I'll stop taking the powder so regularly, and add it as a cycled herb along with the tincture.

There is nothing that says you have to take the pine pollen daily. That's on an as needed basis only. For alot guys, like myself, needed it. You on the other hand, do not. That's a good thing! It just means you're one step closer and one less thing you have to take a couple times a day. That and the fact that your good times are getting better and lasting longer. These are all good signs. Not only that, but I always noticed that towards the end, my body almost felt like it was trying to hold on to the fucked up baseline I was at so I would start the day feeling great, then feel like shit towards the afternoon, and then feel great again by night. The fluctuations towards me approaching a super high baseline was rough, alot of turbulence. But I held on, and broke through, and then it was smooth sailing.

It's okay to leave out some herbs as you progress, especially if you feel you don't need certain ones. But whatever you do, DON'T STOP. Sometimes you have to break through that wall like the Coolaid man....

And I probably just really aged myself with that comment....

[flamingpie]

There is nothing that says you have to take the pine pollen daily. That's on an as needed basis only. For alot guys, like myself, needed it. You on the other hand, do not. That's a good thing! It just means you're one step closer and one less thing you have to take a couple times a day. That and the fact that your good times are getting better and lasting longer. These are all good signs. Not only that, but I always noticed that towards the end, my body almost felt like it was trying to hold on to the fucked up baseline I was at so I would start the day feeling great, then feel like shit towards the afternoon, and then feel great again by night. The fluctuations towards me approaching a super high baseline was rough, alot of turbulence. But I held on, and broke through, and then it was smooth sailing.

It's okay to leave out some herbs as you progress, especially if you feel you don't need certain ones. But whatever you do, DON'T STOP. Sometimes you have to break through that wall like the Coolaid man....

And I probably just really aged myself with that comment....

I just tried for 15 minutes to insert a gif of the Kool Aid man going "oh yeahhhh" but have no idea how to embed gifs. Now I'M the one showing his age haha

And you're absolutely right! I've been feeling pretty amazing again recently. Think I'm at the point in my progress where I shouldn't over do it. The gains are coming and they're staying for longer and longer.

[alphacfi]

Not only that, but I always noticed that towards the end, my body almost felt like it was trying to hold on to the fucked up baseline I was at so I would start the day feeling great, then feel like shit towards the afternoon, and then feel great again by night. The fluctuations towards me approaching a super high baseline was rough, alot of turbulence. But I held on, and broke through, and then it was smooth sailing.



Man! This describes my situation the last few months perfectly!

[flamingpie]

Well it's been like 7 months since I've given an update, so here it goes.

I decided back in October to just take a break from this site. I picked two users who fully recovered (Maxout and I forget the other) and I read their personal threads from first post to last post. I found comfort in seeing that they both saw upswings and down swings down their path. So I learned all I could from this site, it was time to just step away put in the work and remain optimistic.

Towards the end of December I had two weeks of feeling like progress was made, but unfortunately it didnt last. January and February were pretty brutal, and I was getting nervous. BUT then in March I finally hit a milestone. I decided one day to make a few changes to my protocol: I started Intermittent Fasting every day, I purchased a Bath Mate, I upped my daily fish oil intake, and I started taking collagen powder occasionally. And damn, almost immediately my progress skyrocketed. That first week I felt AMAZING. Like 1000%. Unfortunately that level dissipated, but I've held a steady baseline ever since. I'd guess that out of the last 60 days, 55 days I had morning wood. Some mornings it was so strong that it'll stay for minutes after waking, other days it was weak and go down once my feet hit the floor. But its been consistent. My bowel movements have been much more regular, that hourglass curve in my dick has gone away, my energy is back, and I notice my semen volume has gotten bigger.
Libido could use a lot of work though. That's my last hurdle.

Seriously if you havent already I definitely recommend getting a bath mate. Google "hydromax coupon," I found a $50 off coupon. Use it only 3 days a week. It absolutely helps. And intermittent fasting is a game changer. I do a bare minimum of 16 hours, but sometimes I'll do 18-19. As for herbs, I really dont cycle that much anymore. I only take Shilajit, Ashawaganda, Tongkat and Mucuna. Used to also take Trib but I ran out and never refilled. I take one herb a week. Maybe if I get back to a daily cycle and up my herbs I can conquer the libido issues.

Hopefully my next update is the end of the road!

[Cdsnuts]

Well it's been like 7 months since I've given an update, so here it goes.

I decided back in October to just take a break from this site. I picked two users who fully recovered (Maxout and I forget the other) and I read their personal threads from first post to last post. I found comfort in seeing that they both saw upswings and down swings down their path. So I learned all I could from this site, it was time to just step away put in the work and remain optimistic.

Towards the end of December I had two weeks of feeling like progress was made, but unfortunately it didnt last. January and February were pretty brutal, and I was getting nervous. BUT then in March I finally hit a milestone. I decided one day to make a few changes to my protocol: I started Intermittent Fasting every day, I purchased a Bath Mate, I upped my daily fish oil intake, and I started taking collagen powder occasionally. And damn, almost immediately my progress skyrocketed. That first week I felt AMAZING. Like 1000%. Unfortunately that level dissipated, but I've held a steady baseline ever since. I'd guess that out of the last 60 days, 55 days I had morning wood. Some mornings it was so strong that it'll stay for minutes after waking, other days it was weak and go down once my feet hit the floor. But its been consistent. My bowel movements have been much more regular, that hourglass curve in my dick has gone away, my energy is back, and I notice my semen volume has gotten bigger.
Libido could use a lot of work though. That's my last hurdle.

Seriously if you havent already I definitely recommend getting a bath mate. Google "hydromax coupon," I found a $50 off coupon. Use it only 3 days a week. It absolutely helps. And intermittent fasting is a game changer. I do a bare minimum of 16 hours, but sometimes I'll do 18-19. As for herbs, I really dont cycle that much anymore. I only take Shilajit, Ashawaganda, Tongkat and Mucuna. Used to also take Trib but I ran out and never refilled. I take one herb a week. Maybe if I get back to a daily cycle and up my herbs I can conquer the libido issues.

Hopefully my next update is the end of the road!

Nice update, thank you.

If you want your next update to be the end of the road, then you have to follow 100%

You're progress ramped up because you actually started doing the protocol fully....or more fully, anyway.

[LetsRecover]

Well it's been like 7 months since I've given an update, so here it goes.

I decided back in October to just take a break from this site. I picked two users who fully recovered (Maxout and I forget the other) and I read their personal threads from first post to last post. I found comfort in seeing that they both saw upswings and down swings down their path. So I learned all I could from this site, it was time to just step away put in the work and remain optimistic.

Towards the end of December I had two weeks of feeling like progress was made, but unfortunately it didnt last. January and February were pretty brutal, and I was getting nervous. BUT then in March I finally hit a milestone. I decided one day to make a few changes to my protocol: I started Intermittent Fasting every day, I purchased a Bath Mate, I upped my daily fish oil intake, and I started taking collagen powder occasionally. And damn, almost immediately my progress skyrocketed. That first week I felt AMAZING. Like 1000%. Unfortunately that level dissipated, but I've held a steady baseline ever since. I'd guess that out of the last 60 days, 55 days I had morning wood. Some mornings it was so strong that it'll stay for minutes after waking, other days it was weak and go down once my feet hit the floor. But its been consistent. My bowel movements have been much more regular, that hourglass curve in my dick has gone away, my energy is back, and I notice my semen volume has gotten bigger.
Libido could use a lot of work though. That's my last hurdle.

Seriously if you havent already I definitely recommend getting a bath mate. Google "hydromax coupon," I found a $50 off coupon. Use it only 3 days a week. It absolutely helps. And intermittent fasting is a game changer. I do a bare minimum of 16 hours, but sometimes I'll do 18-19. As for herbs, I really dont cycle that much anymore. I only take Shilajit, Ashawaganda, Tongkat and Mucuna. Used to also take Trib but I ran out and never refilled. I take one herb a week. Maybe if I get back to a daily cycle and up my herbs I can conquer the libido issues.

Hopefully my next update is the end of the road!

Hi flamingpie

Could you please ellaborate on how you do the intermittent fasting?

Thank you in advance! :)

[Cdsnuts]

Hi flamingpie

Could you please ellaborate on how you do the intermittent fasting?

Thank you in advance! :)

Typically the way most people do it is to either fast for 16 hours a day and then eat only during an 8 hour window. Or you could fast 24 hrs once a week. Either or would be a healthy option.

[flamingpie]

Yep that's basically it. A typical day I'll fast for 16 hours and eat in an 8 hour window. Sometimes I lose track of time and end up fasting for like 18 hours and a 6 hour eating window.

Only water during the fasting period. Sometimes sparkling water. They say you can have black coffee during a fast, but I still like to hold off on my coffee until I've had food in my system.

[Cdsnuts]

Yep that's basically it. A typical day I'll fast for 16 hours and eat in an 8 hour window. Sometimes I lose track of time and end up fasting for like 18 hours and a 6 hour eating window.

Only water during the fasting period. Sometimes sparkling water. They say you can have black coffee during a fast, but I still like to hold off on my coffee until I've had food in my system.

If you timed this right during a back load, you would have an amazing response.

[Zonz]

Can you still gain muscle while IF?

Also how do you do the herbs if you’re IF?

[MungYarlon]

Can you still gain muscle while IF?

Also how do you do the herbs if you’re IF?

I personally struggle to put on muscle while doing intermittent fasting. It's more useful as a way to cut weight and fat though.

[Cdsnuts]

Can you still gain muscle while IF?

Also how do you do the herbs if you’re IF?

Yes, you can. Your body actually becomes more responsive to insulin and food. Makes backloading all the better. You just eat more on the other days.

Take the herbs anyway.

[flamingpie]

Back with a little update.

About a month ago I decided to get my shit together and commit to this damn protocol fully. I made great progress between March and June, it was time to kick this shit up a notch. So I committed to the herb cycling, I have l-theanine with my black coffee, and I now carb backload (I may have broken this one once or twice). That first 2 and a half weeks, holy shit I felt amazing. It's funny, I think back on how many times in the last 10 years I told myself I experienced a moment of full recovery. And now, as my upswings get better and better, I realize that those past moments were not even close lol. Unfortunately that huge upswing did not last, but it's not like I crashed or anything. It's like I have a new baseline, but I can tell I've still got a long road ahead. Some big symptoms that seem to have gone away entirely are my extreme anxiety and my mood. It's also been like 4 months since my dick has had that hourglass curvature thing happen.

I've always been meaning to add something in addition to magnesium to help my sleep, and I'm thinking glycine is the one to go with. Sounds like it's great not just for sleep, but for inflammation as well. Plan on ordering some this week.

For the herb cycle, I'm currently rotating Mucuna, Goji Powder, Ashwaghanda, Tongkat, Tribulus, Shilajit and Pine Pollen Powder. To stretch it out a bit, on the 8th day instead of taking an herb I'll grind up sorghum grains in a shake. I want to add an actual herb soon, though. What would everyone's suggestion be for the next one to add to my arsenal? I was thinking Rhodiola, Horny Goat Weed or Cordyseps.

Also, I know this is probably me overthinking and not worth asking but I'll ask anyway. I know a lot of people included Goji Berry Powder in their protocol, but I was just reading that it contains the micronutrient Beta-Sitosterol, which is one of the main components of Saw Palmetto (which put me in this hell to begin with!). This freaked me out a bit. But it seems no one has any issues with it. Is it such a small amount that it's not worth stressing over?

Keep up the fight fellas! When I'm finished with this shit I'm buying everyone drinks!

[Maxout777]

Back with a little update.

About a month ago I decided to get my shit together and commit to this damn protocol fully. I made great progress between March and June, it was time to kick this shit up a notch. So I committed to the herb cycling, I have l-theanine with my black coffee, and I now carb backload (I may have broken this one once or twice). That first 2 and a half weeks, holy shit I felt amazing. It's funny, I think back on how many times in the last 10 years I told myself I experienced a moment of full recovery. And now, as my upswings get better and better, I realize that those past moments were not even close lol. Unfortunately that huge upswing did not last, but it's not like I crashed or anything. It's like I have a new baseline, but I can tell I've still got a long road ahead. Some big symptoms that seem to have gone away entirely are my extreme anxiety and my mood. It's also been like 4 months since my dick has had that hourglass curvature thing happen.

I've always been meaning to add something in addition to magnesium to help my sleep, and I'm thinking glycine is the one to go with. Sounds like it's great not just for sleep, but for inflammation as well. Plan on ordering some this week.

For the herb cycle, I'm currently rotating Mucuna, Goji Powder, Ashwaghanda, Tongkat, Tribulus, Shilajit and Pine Pollen Powder. To stretch it out a bit, on the 8th day instead of taking an herb I'll grind up sorghum grains in a shake. I want to add an actual herb soon, though. What would everyone's suggestion be for the next one to add to my arsenal? I was thinking Rhodiola, Horny Goat Weed or Cordyseps.

Also, I know this is probably me overthinking and not worth asking but I'll ask anyway. I know a lot of people included Goji Berry Powder in their protocol, but I was just reading that it contains the micronutrient Beta-Sitosterol, which is one of the main components of Saw Palmetto (which put me in this hell to begin with!). This freaked me out a bit. But it seems no one has any issues with it. Is it such a small amount that it's not worth stressing over?

Keep up the fight fellas! When I'm finished with this shit I'm buying everyone drinks!

Keep at it my man. You're so close if you're having full recovery fluctuations. I also took Goji Berry and was a Saw Palmetto victim. I think you'll be fine, but obviously you'll have to try it once to see if it agrees with you. You won't go into full blown PFS from Goji Berry, from trying, however.

[flamingpie]

Yeah man right after I made that post I searched this forum for beta sitosterol and realized that it's actually in so many every day foods, so I guess I was overreacting. I'm just clueless when it comes to this stuff lol.

So yesterday I had a pretty shitty day, probably the worst day I've had in a couple of months. But then today I've been feeling great. I guess I'm gonna be experiencing a lot of upswings and downswings as I continue on. I'm currently the most optimistic I've been in like 10 years. I've had a handful of shitty days in the last 4 months, but as a whole these 4 months have been the biggest progress I've made so far.

Max, do you have any recommendations for the next herbs I should add to my rotation? I've had my eyes on HGW and Rhodiola.

[Maxout777]

Yeah man right after I made that post I searched this forum for beta sitosterol and realized that it's actually in so many every day foods, so I guess I was overreacting. I'm just clueless when it comes to this stuff lol.

So yesterday I had a pretty shitty day, probably the worst day I've had in a couple of months. But then today I've been feeling great. I guess I'm gonna be experiencing a lot of upswings and downswings as I continue on. I'm currently the most optimistic I've been in like 10 years. I've had a handful of shitty days in the last 4 months, but as a whole these 4 months have been the biggest progress I've made so far.

Max, do you have any recommendations for the next herbs I should add to my rotation? I've had my eyes on HGW and Rhodiola.

Some of my favorites include cistanche (huge favorite here as of late), schisandra, and cordyceps. I’d suggest those if you don’t have already.

[flamingpie]

Some of my favorites include cistanche (huge favorite here as of late), schisandra, and cordyceps. I’d suggest those if you don’t have already.

Ah awesome thanks! I dont know much about cistanche or schisandra, but I'll read up on it tonight. I wanna add at least 1 more herb this week, would like to have a solid 10 rotating. I've had my eye on cordyceps too.

Might as well give another quick update. Yesterday I woke up feeling great again. Met up with some old friends, and someone whipped out a joint. Its been a while since I smoked, and was nervous that this would set me back, but it actually gave me this huge jolt in libido. Like as soon as I got home I had to rub one out, and then like an hour later that libido was still asking for a second round haha
Today was another good day.

[Turnover25]

Ah awesome thanks! I dont know much about cistanche or schisandra, but I'll read up on it tonight. I wanna add at least 1 more herb this week, would like to have a solid 10 rotating. I've had my eye on cordyceps too.

Might as well give another quick update. Yesterday I woke up feeling great again. Met up with some old friends, and someone whipped out a joint. Its been a while since I smoked, and was nervous that this would set me back, but it actually gave me this huge jolt in libido. Like as soon as I got home I had to rub one out, and then like an hour later that libido was still asking for a second round haha
Today was another good day.

Same thing happens to me when it comes to weed

[flamingpie]

Same thing happens to me when it comes to weed

It was always like that pre-PFS for me, but in the last several years weed would always make my dick go numb. So this has been an interesting development!

I've had another great day today. Didn't wake up with morning wood, but got multiple random erections throughout the day. I also ordered Schisandra. Odd that Cistanche seems to be out of stock everywhere. I could only find it on Lost Empire but it's too expensive there (65 bucks!). The other two supplement companies that I trust (Vitajing and Samsara) seem to have been sold out of it for months. Anyone have any other brand recommendations?

[flamingpie]

It's been over a month since my last update, so I figured I'll chime in.
With the exception of this week, I had been feeling pretty amazing of the last 6 weeks or so. Nocturnal wood, morning wood, and random erections coming back practically daily. Libido needs some work, but it's coming. Stronger erections too. I added Schisandra and Cordyceps to my rotation. Dont really notice anything on days I take Schisandra, but I love my Cordyceps days. I feel so energetic and alive.
A few weeks ago I took a boys trip and drank alcohol for the first time in over a year. Also smoked weed. I've kept up my clean diet, although that weekend I was eating a lot of potato chips which I usually avoid. Even ate a couple gluten free brownies. Felt absolutely fine. That was such an amazing feeling, to know I can let loose with my friends on special occasions and not have to panic about taking two steps back in my progress.

Things were honestly going so well this summer that days would go by where I'd completely forget about PFS. Unfortunately this week I hit a low point, but I was expecting this. All the recovery journeys I've followed up here included a lot of ups and downs toward the end, so I knew I was gonna eventually face some bad days. Mine hit on Tuesday, I woke up with morning wood but then a couple hours later my dick got that numb feeling again. It stayed like that until I woke up the next morning, when I once again got morning wood. But then the same thing happened, by the afternoon it felt numb and my energy was just depleted all day. Today was better, but I'm not back to my new baseline yet. I'm sure it'll be better by tomorrow.

I feel the end is coming! Can't wait to join the big guns here in the recovery thread.

[flamingpie]

So I've hit a big slump and I'm hoping someone has any advise.

Since June I feel like I've created a new baseline. There were days between then and now where I'd have amazing days, sometimes amazing weeks, where it felt like PFS was a thing of the past. But even on the average days I could always count on having my energy back, no pain in my dick, and maybe even some nocturnal/morning/random erection at some point in the day. My last amazing period was last month, where I went 14 days of feeling absolutely fantastic. But now these last 6 days have been absolute hell for me. Definitely the worst days I've had in over a year. There's a constant pain in my dick, its shriveled up and cold. I feel completely drained of energy, yet if I have a cup of coffee I feel like my anxiety is blowing through the roof.
Now I know it's to be expected to experience high days and low days, but I'm really concerned about how low this period has been. Am I doing any part of the protocol wrong? Here's basically where I'm at:

Herb cycle: Cistanche, Blank Ant, Pine Pollen, Mucuna, Tongkat, Tribulus, Cordyceps, Ashwagandha, Schisandra, Shilajit.

Typical Diet:
Breakfast - eggs, bacon, cheese, bone broth
Lunch - grass fed beef, asparagus, zucchini and onions sauteed in olive oil
Post Gym Shake - grass fed whey, rolled oats, banana, honey, glutamine, collagen powder, spinach, blueberries
Dinner - chicken or fish, sweet potatoes, kale and kimchi. Cooked in olive oil

About a month ago I started taking Chlorella every other day, alternating with a multi vitamin. I also typically take L-Theanine in my morning coffee, 7,000iu of Vit D, Vit C powder, Fish Oil and a probiotic every day. I occasionally take magnesium powder before bed, and drink Pau D'Arco tea a few times a week.
I do heavy weightlifting at the gym 5 days a week. Use a bathmate 2-3 times a week.

Does anyone see anything here that I should tweak? I've been thinking about starting Pine Pollen up daily, but wasn't sure if I should wait until I'm a little further along before starting.

[Flapjack]

I’d ditch ashwaghanda, definitely meditate, and maybe get rid of dairy? Emphasis on the meditation though.

[flamingpie]

Yep I also meditate. I basically do the entire TMO protocol, minus the "sunning your boys" and the spirulina. And its funny that you say ditch the ash, it's one of my favorite herbs to take! I always feel calm and relaxed afterwards. Do you have bad reactions to it?

I kinda regret making that last post, because today and yesterday I've felt fantastic. Energy back, numb pain is gone, had nocturnal and morning wood as strong as steel. I actually ditched the Chlorella on Wednesday, maybe I was reacting badly to that? Possibly. Or was I just experience a bad downswing which is par for the course in recovering? Most likely lol. Still keeping the Chlorella out for now, though, as I seemed to be doing fine without it.

[Outlaw]

Hey man just sending you good vibes.

Your routine looks solid. If you say your dick is shriveled and cold, I would maybe also add some daily pelvic stretches. Look up Master Mal's thread for a youtube video example. Whether it's through PFS or the subsequent stress, a lot of guys develop really tight pelvic floor, which can significantly alter bloodflow and even sensation by trapping nerves. If you squat a lot it can make it even worse.

Other than that, idk if you tried a good ole' cycle, but it really propelled me further on all fronts

[Cdsnuts]

Yep I also meditate. I basically do the entire TMO protocol, minus the "sunning your boys" and the spirulina. And its funny that you say ditch the ash, it's one of my favorite herbs to take! I always feel calm and relaxed afterwards. Do you have bad reactions to it?

I kinda regret making that last post, because today and yesterday I've felt fantastic. Energy back, numb pain is gone, had nocturnal and morning wood as strong as steel. I actually ditched the Chlorella on Wednesday, maybe I was reacting badly to that? Possibly. Or was I just experience a bad downswing which is par for the course in recovering? Most likely lol. Still keeping the Chlorella out for now, though, as I seemed to be doing fine without it.

You're doing it! You're getting there. That's just par for the course. This is why I say not to count on your recovery until you are symptom free for six months. It'll happen....keep putting in the work.

[flamingpie]

I'm now on day 5 of feeling great again. Nocturnal wood, morning wood, being aroused just by thoughts, energy back etc. My libido would even get revved up at random times, had to masturbate 3 times in the last four days in order to concentrate. So much for nofap haha.
Would love to keep this high, but I'm expecting I'll level off to a baseline. Still, amazing that last week I was feeling terrible and now I feel amazing.

[Outlaw]

Keep it up I'm rooting for you, read your thread a lot

[flamingpie]

So in my last post I said I was on day 5 of feeling great again. That stretch lasted like 18 days of feeling great. Then of course came a bad downswing. Maybe it was Thanksgiving that caused it? I kept it gluten free (as I have strictly been for 10 years), but gluten free or not, it was still a lot of stuffing, cake, crackers and just carbs in general. Then I went home with leftovers so that was like 2 more days of breaking my diet. And then once that was all gone I was on a carb high and ordered some gluten free pizzas haha. So maybe it was the 4 days of breaking my diet that caused the downswing. Or, like I said during my last down swing, it was probably just inevitable and par for the course.

But thankfully for the last 3 days Ive been feeling good again. Not like fantastic 100% cured, but back at that good baseline that I've been solidifying these past six months. I think my next moves is to add Rhodiola to my cycle, as well as start doing Pine Pollen Powder daily instead of cycled.

Got one question for everyone! So oddly I've been having sleep issues the past month. Funny enough I never had bad sleep issues during all of this, but recently it takes me forever to fall asleep, and when I do, I wake up like 5 times during the night. I've been taking magnesium occasionally for years, so that hasn't really helped. BUT I started taking Glycine this week and that seems to be really helping. 3 grams didnt do much, but 6 grams had me feeling really calm and had a restful sleep. So enough rambling, here's my question! I see people on the boards refer to their sleep "stack," which includes glycine, magnesium and the other supplements on TMO. Does stack mean the same as cycling? Or are you supposed to take all the supplements at once? Was wondering if I was ok to add magnesium to my 6 grams of Glycine, or if I'm supposed to alternate between these.

[flamingpie]

Oh a few more things to add! After really studying Damn's journey I started to really focus on my gut. So now Im more strict about making sure I'm eating probiotic foods every day in addition to my probiotic pills (goat kefir, kimchi, sauerkraut etc.) Also back to drinking bone broth every morning before my breakfast. Another great thing I picked up from Damn is utilizing the sauna. I've been doing 20 minutes in the sauna twice a week after a workout, and I really feel great afterwards!

[Outlaw]

Not too sure about combining the sleep supplements (like blue vervain and albizia or whatever), but you can definitely combine magnesium and glycine. Used it all summer with great success

[Cdsnuts]

So in my last post I said I was on day 5 of feeling great again. That stretch lasted like 18 days of feeling great. Then of course came a bad downswing. Maybe it was Thanksgiving that caused it? I kept it gluten free (as I have strictly been for 10 years), but gluten free or not, it was still a lot of stuffing, cake, crackers and just carbs in general. Then I went home with leftovers so that was like 2 more days of breaking my diet. And then once that was all gone I was on a carb high and ordered some gluten free pizzas haha. So maybe it was the 4 days of breaking my diet that caused the downswing. Or, like I said during my last down swing, it was probably just inevitable and par for the course.

But thankfully for the last 3 days Ive been feeling good again. Not like fantastic 100% cured, but back at that good baseline that I've been solidifying these past six months. I think my next moves is to add Rhodiola to my cycle, as well as start doing Pine Pollen Powder daily instead of cycled.

Got one question for everyone! So oddly I've been having sleep issues the past month. Funny enough I never had bad sleep issues during all of this, but recently it takes me forever to fall asleep, and when I do, I wake up like 5 times during the night. I've been taking magnesium occasionally for years, so that hasn't really helped. BUT I started taking Glycine this week and that seems to be really helping. 3 grams didnt do much, but 6 grams had me feeling really calm and had a restful sleep. So enough rambling, here's my question! I see people on the boards refer to their sleep "stack," which includes glycine, magnesium and the other supplements on TMO. Does stack mean the same as cycling? Or are you supposed to take all the supplements at once? Was wondering if I was ok to add magnesium to my 6 grams of Glycine, or if I'm supposed to alternate between these.

You can take them all at once, nightly.

[flamingpie]

Still feeling good since my last post over a week ago. The glycine and magnesium have been amazing for sleep. I still tend to wake up at least once in the middle of the night, but I'm falling asleep faster now. Whereas I used to toss and turn for like 40 minutes before finally clocking out.

Also now that I'm on my daily gut regime of bone broth, goat kefir, probiotic pill and probiotic foods, my bowel movements have been really healthy. I actually was having an issue with soft and loose stools for the last four months or so, and this seems to have really done the trick.

I still haven't ordered the rhodiola or started the daily PP, but may jump on that after the holidays. Last week I did a boys trip, with three straight days of drinking. Ate out for every meal too. I kept my orders as clean and paleo as possible, but it's always a gamble eating out as you have no idea what kind of oils they're using. Happy to report that it's been 5 days since the trip and I'm still feeling fine.

Hope everyone's doing well!

[flamingpie]

Well that was like, 12 days I think, of feeling good. But I hit another downswing three days ago.
As much as I need to get out of the habit of running to this site in despair every time I have a downswing, I actually find great comfort in picking a user who's recovered, reading through their journey, and seeing all of THEIR posts about downswings and panic. It reinforces the reality that these ups and downs are expected.

As god as my witness, 2022 is the year I put this shit in the rearview mirror. I've ordered Rhodiola, but because I'm leaving tomorrow to visit family for the holidays, I probably won't be trying this herb out until the new year.

Also really plan on starting Pine Pollen daily when I return as well. If you recall, I tried doing PP daily in the summer of 2020. I had FANTASTIC results initially, but then it quickly went away, and then I experienced a couple of bad downswings that I probably incorrectly linked to the PP, so I ditched it. Now that I've been on a proper herb rotation for 6 months, I think it's time we try this again. When people start doing PP daily, what dosage do they start at? When I tried it last year, I think I jumped the gun a bit and was doing 3 - 4 teaspoons a day. Should I ease into it, with maybe 1/2 a teaspoon and gradually make my way up? Right now when I reach Pine Pollen in my rotation, I only do 2 teaspoons.

Finally, if by the Spring I'm still feeling like I'm not progressing as much as I'd like, I'm gonna do an ultra hard cycle. But to be honest I don't really understand much about these prohormones, except for the fact that I see a lot of people having success with them. So if I cross that bridge, I'm definitely gonna need some guidance haha

[flamingpie]

Was bored so came to check the boards, figured I'd give a little update.

This past 30 days or so I've been feeling pretty great. I'm definitely at a new baseline. I haven't had any crashes or bad days. Been getting morning wood on most days, the numb pain is gone, the hourglass bend is gone, the sensitivity to cold is gone, my bowel movements have been normal and healthy, my energy levels are great and my sleep has been great too. It seems that the final hurdle is getting my libido back to normal. But there's definitely been a few crazy upswings in the past month where my libido revved up out of nowhere.

The protocol is doing its thing. One other thing I should mention is last month I stopped eating grains, and I instantly felt an improvement. I'm sure grains aren't terrible occasionally, but man I was eating them way too much. Oatmeal in the morning, oatmeal in post workout shake, white rice at dinner, oat milk in my coffee etc. I feel much better now without them and using potatoes and fruits as my backloads. Every now and then I'll backload with red lentil pasta and I've been fine.

[Cdsnuts]

Was bored so came to check the boards, figured I'd give a little update.

This past 30 days or so I've been feeling pretty great. I'm definitely at a new baseline. I haven't had any crashes or bad days. Been getting morning wood on most days, the numb pain is gone, the hourglass bend is gone, the sensitivity to cold is gone, my bowel movements have been normal and healthy, my energy levels are great and my sleep has been great too. It seems that the final hurdle is getting my libido back to normal. But there's definitely been a few crazy upswings in the past month where my libido revved up out of nowhere.

The protocol is doing its thing. One other thing I should mention is last month I stopped eating grains, and I instantly felt an improvement. I'm sure grains aren't terrible occasionally, but man I was eating them way too much. Oatmeal in the morning, oatmeal in post workout shake, white rice at dinner, oat milk in my coffee etc. I feel much better now without them and using potatoes and fruits as my backloads. Every now and then I'll backload with red lentil pasta and I've been fine.

LOVE when that happens, lol.....always does.

I'm glad I caught you poppin in.......nice post!! I caught the positivity!

Yes, grains do make that much of a difference. Technically we have only been eating them as a whole species for a millisecond of time.

[flamingpie]

Ok I've got a lot to say and a few questions for the class!

First off, the last 3 weeks were basically going great, but these last 4 days I've had an awful downswing. Like the worst I've had in a long time. Again, probably par for the course. The only thing I was doing differently was eating more lentils & chickpeas on backloads, and kinda ditching my intermittent fasting routine. I probably would've had a downswing regardless, but just in case I think I'll go back to my IF and legume free diet.

Second, just ordered Horny Goat Weed to add to my rotation, excited to try this! I also ordered Schisandra with it, as the Schisandra I've been using for the past 7 months wasn't from Lost Empire (it was from Micro Nutrients). This brand I've been using is like a brown color, and I've realized that pure authentic Schisandra should be a bright red. I'm realizing that the herbs I use that give me the most notable effects are all LEH brand, and the most ineffective ones are off-brand. Lesson learned!

Third, one weird effect I've noticed in the last month is that my arm pits have been smelling AWFUL! I ditched traditional deodorant years ago and have been using either nothing at all, or sometimes mineral deodorant. Never had an issue. But now the stench is unbearable haha. I just ordered Pretty Frank deodorant. Seems natural enough (basically arrowroot powder and coconut oil). Hopefully that does the trick! But its been making me wonder if PFS caused like no sweat in my armpits, and now that the protocol is doing its thing its turning back online?

Ok now for my questions lol. I'm thinking to also add Butea Superba and Gotu Koba to my arsenal, however Lost Empire doesn't sell them and the links on TMO aren't working. Does anyone recommend a specific brand for these?

I'm also trying to figure out ways to gain weight while staying on protocol diet. I've always been skinny, even before PFS. I'm currently 6'2" and only 163 pounds. Any secret weapons people suggest to add on the pounds? I know most nuts are frowned upon during recovery, but what about macadamias? They seem to be very calorie dense and have testosterone boosting properties.
For reference, my diet is typically:
Breakfast: 3 eggs, 1oz goat cheese, bacon, bone broth, black coffee with ghee and sometimes cacao powder
Lunch: 8oz ground beef, butternut squash, asparagus, spinach
Post workout shake: banana, berries, spinach, honey, collagen powder
Dinner: 8oz chicken, broccoli, sweet potatoes. Sometimes a cup of fruit afterwards.
Use EVOO and ghee to cook. I think my calories come out to 2300 a day

Ok I think I wrote way too much lol

[Cdsnuts]

Ok I've got a lot to say and a few questions for the class!

First off, the last 3 weeks were basically going great, but these last 4 days I've had an awful downswing. Like the worst I've had in a long time. Again, probably par for the course. The only thing I was doing differently was eating more lentils & chickpeas on backloads, and kinda ditching my intermittent fasting routine. I probably would've had a downswing regardless, but just in case I think I'll go back to my IF and legume free diet.

Second, just ordered Horny Goat Weed to add to my rotation, excited to try this! I also ordered Schisandra with it, as the Schisandra I've been using for the past 7 months wasn't from Lost Empire (it was from Micro Nutrients). This brand I've been using is like a brown color, and I've realized that pure authentic Schisandra should be a bright red. I'm realizing that the herbs I use that give me the most notable effects are all LEH brand, and the most ineffective ones are off-brand. Lesson learned!

Third, one weird effect I've noticed in the last month is that my arm pits have been smelling AWFUL! I ditched traditional deodorant years ago and have been using either nothing at all, or sometimes mineral deodorant. Never had an issue. But now the stench is unbearable haha. I just ordered Pretty Frank deodorant. Seems natural enough (basically arrowroot powder and coconut oil). Hopefully that does the trick! But its been making me wonder if PFS caused like no sweat in my armpits, and now that the protocol is doing its thing its turning back online?

Ok now for my questions lol. I'm thinking to also add Butea Superba and Gotu Koba to my arsenal, however Lost Empire doesn't sell them and the links on TMO aren't working. Does anyone recommend a specific brand for these?

I'm also trying to figure out ways to gain weight while staying on protocol diet. I've always been skinny, even before PFS. I'm currently 6'2" and only 163 pounds. Any secret weapons people suggest to add on the pounds? I know most nuts are frowned upon during recovery, but what about macadamias? They seem to be very calorie dense and have testosterone boosting properties.
For reference, my diet is typically:
Breakfast: 3 eggs, 1oz goat cheese, bacon, bone broth, black coffee with ghee and sometimes cacao powder
Lunch: 8oz ground beef, butternut squash, asparagus, spinach
Post workout shake: banana, berries, spinach, honey, collagen powder
Dinner: 8oz chicken, broccoli, sweet potatoes. Sometimes a cup of fruit afterwards.
Use EVOO and ghee to cook. I think my calories come out to 2300 a day

Ok I think I wrote way too much lol

Ditch the beans and see how you feel. Add each one in by itself one at a time until you get a reaction.

Guys......there is a reason why I recommend lost empire herbs. How many times do we have to make that mistake. You will not find a better quality herb company hands down.

You're getting musty pits because your hormones are coming back online, so congrats. that is a very good thing.

Butea superba brand is Anterol, Gotu Kola you'll have to experiment with.

Eat more fat and eat bigger backloads. You should shoot for 3000 calories/day

If you're still having trouble you can make a super smoothie which can hold up to 1000 calories.

[flamingpie]

Hey guys sorry I havent been given an update in a while. I'm just trying to avoid the forums while I go through the protocol and live my life. But last week was my 1 year anniversary of starting the protocol 100%, so I figured now's a good time to give an update.
Just to clarify, I've been doing the protocol for a year now, but I've had PFS for 13 years. Urghh I get so mad at myself for waiting so long before putting in the work, but no point in dwelling on the past. Sooooo a year into the protocol. Am I recovered completely? No not yet. But am I doing better than I was before I started? Hell yes.
My last update was in March, and since then I've had a few ups and downs. The entire month of April was pretty great, it felt like all my symptoms were close to resolved except for my low libido. Then May brought a nasty downswing. But now for the last 2 weeks I've been feeling pretty fantastic.
I don't visit the forums often anymore cuz there's nothing left to learn, I'm just riding the waves as my body figures itself out. Just read the threads of users who've recovered if you're looking for some reassurance. It's comforting to see recovery stories where they spent like 2 years on the protocol, and seeing that they also saw the ups and downs before getting that permanent baseline.

I did learn two big things in the last month that I think have really helped me get back on track. First, DONT NEGLECT YOUR GUT HEALTH. Seriously, take your probiotic daily, eat your kimchi, drink your kefir, take an ACV shot in the mornings etc. I notice that when I start neglecting these things my progress gets a little hindered. The second thing I learned is that daily pine pollen is just not for me lol. I'm so jealous, because the way people talk it sounds like a miracle herb. I've been taking it as part of my 14 herb rotation, but whenever I try to take it daily, or even semi daily, even at a low dose, I get these awful side effects. If you've read my thread from the beginning you probably saw me talk about this last year. This was my fourth attempt at incorporating it daily and I get the same nasty reaction, even when I load up on potassium as suggested. Oh well, still seeing great progress regardless.

So while I'm not fully recovered yet, there are a lot of symptoms that I believe are 100% gone. Hourglass dick, poor sleep, infrequent bowel movements, lack of energy....all of those symptoms have been completely gone for months. I wake up with morning wood 80% of the time, my libido has definitely increased over the year, that numb feeling has occurred only a handful of days in the last 6 months but only during those bad downswings, and even then it's not as bad as it used to be. I also don't get that jittery anxiety attack from coffee anymore. If I really think about it I'm sure there's other minor symptoms that have resolved themselves, but I don't wanna waste too much time rambling. At the risk of jinxing myself I think the only two things I have left to achieve are stronger erections and higher libido. All my sleep, digestive, energy, memory etc. symptoms are fine now.

For anyone wondering these are the 14 herbs I cycle: Horny Goat Weed, Mucuna, Catuaba Bark, Schisandra, Pine Pollen Powder, Ashwaganda, Black Ant, Tonkat Ali, Goji Berry, Cistanche, Shilajit, Tribulus, Cordyceps and Rhodiola.
I also take a multi vitamin and Vitamin D daily, Fish Oil on days I don't eat fish, probiotic pill daily, L Citruline and L Glutamine on gym days, vitamin c powder daily, glycine and magnesium occasionally for sleep, and l theanine occasionally with my coffee.
Use the bathmate 3-4 times a week, try to meditate for 10 minutes halfway through my workday, eat paleo and carb backload, workout 5 days a week, and take a couple of cold showers a week.
Pretty sure I'm done with tweaking my regime. MAYBE in a couple more months if I'm looking to modify some more I may add Royal Jelly and He Shou Wu to my herb rotation. HSW seems to be a staple in most guy's rotation, not sure why I never picked that one!

Sorry for such a long post! I just figured if I'm not gonna post as often anymore I should word vomit as much as I could lol

[flamingpie]

One more thing I forgot to mention. I did intermittent fasting for 14 months but recently stopped. I was very strict with it, doing a minimum 16 hour fast every day, sometimes 20 hours. I definitely believe there are great benefits to it. However, as a naturally skinny person already, I was just losing too much weight from it. Going into it I was already a little underweight, and then 14 months later I was down another 14 pounds. So while I definitely believe in the benefits, I think for now I should just get back to a regular eating schedule. I do still find myself unintentionally going 16 hours though on random days when work is just too hectic and I forget to eat breakfast. But it's no longer a daily thing for me.

[AltRoute]

Hey guys sorry I havent been given an update in a while. I'm just trying to avoid the forums while I go through the protocol and live my life. But last week was my 1 year anniversary of starting the protocol 100%, so I figured now's a good time to give an update.
Just to clarify, I've been doing the protocol for a year now, but I've had PFS for 13 years. Urghh I get so mad at myself for waiting so long before putting in the work, but no point in dwelling on the past. Sooooo a year into the protocol. Am I recovered completely? No not yet. But am I doing better than I was before I started? Hell yes.
My last update was in March, and since then I've had a few ups and downs. The entire month of April was pretty great, it felt like all my symptoms were close to resolved except for my low libido. Then May brought a nasty downswing. But now for the last 2 weeks I've been feeling pretty fantastic.
I don't visit the forums often anymore cuz there's nothing left to learn, I'm just riding the waves as my body figures itself out. Just read the threads of users who've recovered if you're looking for some reassurance. It's comforting to see recovery stories where they spent like 2 years on the protocol, and seeing that they also saw the ups and downs before getting that permanent baseline.

I did learn two big things in the last month that I think have really helped me get back on track. First, DONT NEGLECT YOUR GUT HEALTH. Seriously, take your probiotic daily, eat your kimchi, drink your kefir, take an ACV shot in the mornings etc. I notice that when I start neglecting these things my progress gets a little hindered. The second thing I learned is that daily pine pollen is just not for me lol. I'm so jealous, because the way people talk it sounds like a miracle herb. I've been taking it as part of my 14 herb rotation, but whenever I try to take it daily, or even semi daily, even at a low dose, I get these awful side effects. If you've read my thread from the beginning you probably saw me talk about this last year. This was my fourth attempt at incorporating it daily and I get the same nasty reaction, even when I load up on potassium as suggested. Oh well, still seeing great progress regardless.

So while I'm not fully recovered yet, there are a lot of symptoms that I believe are 100% gone. Hourglass dick, poor sleep, infrequent bowel movements, lack of energy....all of those symptoms have been completely gone for months. I wake up with morning wood 80% of the time, my libido has definitely increased over the year, that numb feeling has occurred only a handful of days in the last 6 months but only during those bad downswings, and even then it's not as bad as it used to be. I also don't get that jittery anxiety attack from coffee anymore. If I really think about it I'm sure there's other minor symptoms that have resolved themselves, but I don't wanna waste too much time rambling. At the risk of jinxing myself I think the only two things I have left to achieve are stronger erections and higher libido. All my sleep, digestive, energy, memory etc. symptoms are fine now.

For anyone wondering these are the 14 herbs I cycle: Horny Goat Weed, Mucuna, Catuaba Bark, Schisandra, Pine Pollen Powder, Ashwaganda, Black Ant, Tonkat Ali, Goji Berry, Cistanche, Shilajit, Tribulus, Cordyceps and Rhodiola.
I also take a multi vitamin and Vitamin D daily, Fish Oil on days I don't eat fish, probiotic pill daily, L Citruline and L Glutamine on gym days, vitamin c powder daily, glycine and magnesium occasionally for sleep, and l theanine occasionally with my coffee.
Use the bathmate 3-4 times a week, try to meditate for 10 minutes halfway through my workday, eat paleo and carb backload, workout 5 days a week, and take a couple of cold showers a week.
Pretty sure I'm done with tweaking my regime. MAYBE in a couple more months if I'm looking to modify some more I may add Royal Jelly and He Shou Wu to my herb rotation. HSW seems to be a staple in most guy's rotation, not sure why I never picked that one!

Sorry for such a long post! I just figured if I'm not gonna post as often anymore I should word vomit as much as I could lol

Congrats man! For the probiotic pill what brand have you been using ? I was on and off on it in the beginning but never was consistent w the probiotics

[Thetfordboy]

One more thing I forgot to mention. I did intermittent fasting for 14 months but recently stopped. I was very strict with it, doing a minimum 16 hour fast every day, sometimes 20 hours. I definitely believe there are great benefits to it. However, as a naturally skinny person already, I was just losing too much weight from it. Going into it I was already a little underweight, and then 14 months later I was down another 14 pounds. So while I definitely believe in the benefits, I think for now I should just get back to a regular eating schedule. I do still find myself unintentionally going 16 hours though on random days when work is just too hectic and I forget to eat breakfast. But it's no longer a daily thing for me.

Well done, reading your thread with interest and hoping you make it to the finish line now.

[flamingpie]

Congrats man! For the probiotic pill what brand have you been using ? I was on and off on it in the beginning but never was consistent w the probiotics

I've alternated between a few brands, but most recently I've been taken one from Now Supplements.

[flamingpie]

I'm strongly considering jumping on a prohormone cycle, but I'm freaking myself out because I'm afraid I'm gonna do something wrong and make everything worse lol

Just so I understand correctly, when you do a ultra hard cycle you dont take your typical herb rotation? UH cycle would be 3-5 pumps a day, for 4-6 weeks, correct? And then once the UH cycle is done you can jump back onto your regular herb rotation. I keep seeing people mention PCT.....is our post cycle therapy our TMO herb rotation or is it something more?
Thanks boys!

[xxaleksi]

I'm strongly considering jumping on a prohormone cycle, but I'm freaking myself out because I'm afraid I'm gonna do something wrong and make everything worse lol

Just so I understand correctly, when you do a ultra hard cycle you dont take your typical herb rotation? UH cycle would be 3-5 pumps a day, for 4-6 weeks, correct? And then once the UH cycle is done you can jump back onto your regular herb rotation. I keep seeing people mention PCT.....is our post cycle therapy our TMO herb rotation or is it something more?
Thanks boys!
That is correct.

The herb cycle is your PCT

[flamingpie]

Awesome thanks for confirming!

Funny enough ever since the day after I posted that question, I've been in a great upswing. 8 days and counting. Will probably eventually jump on a prohormone cycle but right now I'm not feeling too desperate for something new.

I recently started having larger backloads and it seems to be really helping. Got a question on that too. Does backloading only apply to complex carbohydrates? I see some people refer to carb backloading as keeping their carb intake under 30 grams during the day and then carb out at night. I see others saying they eat fruit during the day and do complex carbs at night. Would say an apple or banana during the day hinder the benefits of backloading?

[lastnoirking87]

From what I've gathered here, backloading is for complex carbs...fruit can be eaten whenever you wish...I eat fruit all the time.

[xxaleksi]

^Exactly. Personally had lots of fruit smoothies during the day along with meat and vegetables. Then rice and gluten free pasta for backloads.

[Cdsnuts]

From what I've gathered here, backloading is for complex carbs...fruit can be eaten whenever you wish...I eat fruit all the time.

Correct.

- - - Updated - - -


^Exactly. Personally had lots of fruit smoothies during the day along with meat and vegetables. Then rice and gluten free pasta for backloads.

Thanks for sticking around and giving back.........

[flamingpie]

Thanks for confirming boys!

Sorry it took me a minute to respond, I had a 3 week period of feeling fantastic so I was avoiding the boards. Unfortunately the past four days have been a downswing, but here's to hoping it doesn't last too long.

Still considering the ultra hard but maybe first I'll throw a few more herbs into my rotation. Currently at 14 herbs, but thinking of adding He Shou Wu and Butea to the mix in the coming weeks with a possible UH cycle in October.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for confirming boys!

Sorry it took me a minute to respond, I had a 3 week period of feeling fantastic so I was avoiding the boards. Unfortunately the past four days have been a downswing, but here's to hoping it doesn't last too long.

Still considering the ultra hard but maybe first I'll throw a few more herbs into my rotation. Currently at 14 herbs, but thinking of adding He Shou Wu and Butea to the mix in the coming weeks with a possible UH cycle in October.

He Shou Wu is one of my favorites and one that I still occasionally take. You're missing out.

Don't worry.....you'll be back to feeling bullet proof soon enough.....in due time. At least you got a taste to keep you going.

[flamingpie]

Urgh these swings are killing me! Most recently I had 10 days of feeling great, followed by 3 of the worst days I've had in years. And then suddenly by the end of that third day I started feeling better, and have continued to feel good for the following two days.
Anyways, I've ordered He Shou Wu so I'm excited to see what all the fuss is about. After placing the order I got invited to Lost Empire's VIP section, which interestingly has a Tribulus tincture for sale. Has anyone tried this yet? I know the hot topic regarding Tribulus is finding a quality brand, so I'm definitely intrigued that LEH has their own now.

[flamingpie]

What in the world is happening to this forum lol. A lot of trash posts lately.

Just wanted to give a short update. Still having swings of ups and downs, but the upswings are getting longer and the downswings havent been as bad. Recently went 3 full weeks of feeling fantastic, not really thinking about PFS at all. These last couple of days have been meh, but still manageable. Seems that issues with sleep, energy and bowel movements are completely gone. Haven't seemed to have issues with cold sensitivity or that hour glass curvature in a very long time too. It's just the libido and weak erections that still needs to get conquered.
Added He Shou Wu a month ago. Also re introduced L-Theanine into my regime recently. I had stopped taking that like 8 months ago when I felt like my concentration and brain issues were resolved, BUT I recently read that theanine may actually help increase DHT. So it's back in my coffee every morning now!

I know I keep toying with the idea of doing a UH cycle. I'm traveling a bit later this month and December which would make it hard to commit to a 4 week cycle, so I'm thinking if by January I still feel I need that extra push I'll bite the bullet then.
This last upswing that I had for basically all of October was great though! Definitely feel every upswing is better and longer than the one before it.

[flamingpie]

Actually meant to include this in my post yesterday, but I've been pondering about a couple diet things:
1) Is there a difference in nutritional benefit between bone broth and collagen powder? I used to drink a cup of bone broth most mornings, but recently switched to collagen powder because it was cheaper. If I'm also supplementing glutamine, is there anything from bone broth I'm no longer getting? Should I switch back?
2) I know a lot of people aim to get raw milk straight from the farm, but do you recommend pasteurized grass fed milk from the grocery store? And if so, should I go full fat? I seem to be tolerating dairy better and it would certainly be a good way to sneak in extra calories.

[road to recover]

Man i cant believe this champion in the home staright to recobery was more fucksd up than me, I never had hourglass or any if that shite. And yet I fucked it up with taking pharma shite after bullying from dirty itangenbastards.

[isseo]

Hi guy. I don't know how to answer you for collagen, I don't think it's mandatory for healing. On the other hand, for milk I know that for me it is difficult. On the other hand, hard cheese you should try! (I don't know how to say that in English, but I'm talking about cheese that doesn't run). normally it is much easier to digest.


And yes, RoadToRecover is an idiot...

[flamingpie]

Ok it has been a very long time since I reported back, so here's an update of everything that's happened in the last 6 months.

So most of November and December were pretty great. I was still dealing with low libido, but everything else was fantastic. I think symptoms dealing with energy, sleep, bowel movements etc have been a thing of the past since like September 2022, but its just the sexual sides that are still lingering. Anyway, in November/December my libido was still low, but that penile numbness was gone, which really is the hardest thing to deal with. Not getting horny is one thing, but having a numb pain in your dick constantly reminding you that something's wrong, that's what drives me crazy. But that was gone, and even my erection quality was pretty good. Was getting morning wood every day. But then in the last week of December I crashed hard. Morning wood gone, numbness came back, no sexual desire AT ALL. But those other residual symptoms were still gone (and are still to this day). But this sexual crash lasted a long time. Started on Christmas Eve, and basically lasted until mid February when I decided to do something about it.

Mid February I decided to try daily Pine Pollen Powder again, plus grabbed the tincture for my rotation. I've tried the daily powder in the past, but unfortunately kept getting weird reactions to it. But this time I stuck with it, rode through the initial reaction, played around with my dosage and played around with my potassium intake in my diet. Eventually I found the sweet spot! For a solid month and a half things were great again. Daily morning wood, no numbness, and an actual libido. But as of last week, I've been off again. Not crashed, but the morning wood is gone, and the numbness feeling pops back here and there.

I'll try to ride this wave, but I think it might be time I finally start a prohormone cycle. But first I want to get my blood work done to see where I'm at. When you guys get your labs, what are you requesting? I was gonna get my DHT, Free Test, Total Test and SHBG checked. But should I also get my Estradiol checked?

And any advice about the prohormones would be greatly appreciated! I'm guessing I'll order Ultra Hard, do a 4 week cycle, start with 2 pumps a day and work my way up. Any tips about diet/exercise during that time?

[Cdsnuts]

Ok it has been a very long time since I reported back, so here's an update of everything that's happened in the last 6 months.

So most of November and December were pretty great. I was still dealing with low libido, but everything else was fantastic. I think symptoms dealing with energy, sleep, bowel movements etc have been a thing of the past since like September 2022, but its just the sexual sides that are still lingering. Anyway, in November/December my libido was still low, but that penile numbness was gone, which really is the hardest thing to deal with. Not getting horny is one thing, but having a numb pain in your dick constantly reminding you that something's wrong, that's what drives me crazy. But that was gone, and even my erection quality was pretty good. Was getting morning wood every day. But then in the last week of December I crashed hard. Morning wood gone, numbness came back, no sexual desire AT ALL. But those other residual symptoms were still gone (and are still to this day). But this sexual crash lasted a long time. Started on Christmas Eve, and basically lasted until mid February when I decided to do something about it.

Mid February I decided to try daily Pine Pollen Powder again, plus grabbed the tincture for my rotation. I've tried the daily powder in the past, but unfortunately kept getting weird reactions to it. But this time I stuck with it, rode through the initial reaction, played around with my dosage and played around with my potassium intake in my diet. Eventually I found the sweet spot! For a solid month and a half things were great again. Daily morning wood, no numbness, and an actual libido. But as of last week, I've been off again. Not crashed, but the morning wood is gone, and the numbness feeling pops back here and there.

I'll try to ride this wave, but I think it might be time I finally start a prohormone cycle. But first I want to get my blood work done to see where I'm at. When you guys get your labs, what are you requesting? I was gonna get my DHT, Free Test, Total Test and SHBG checked. But should I also get my Estradiol checked?

And any advice about the prohormones would be greatly appreciated! I'm guessing I'll order Ultra Hard, do a 4 week cycle, start with 2 pumps a day and work my way up. Any tips about diet/exercise during that time?

Sounds like a plan. You should notice a nice lift from the PH's

[strato]

And any advice about the prohormones would be greatly appreciated! I'm guessing I'll order Ultra Hard, do a 4 week cycle, start with 2 pumps a day and work my way up. Any tips about diet/exercise during that time?

Dude I am 4 weeks today into my first UltraHard cycle at 3 pumps daily. It has literally been a God send. Took my recovery up to a place where life has been worth living again, starting within the first application.

I highly, highly recommend the Ultrahard, literally been a miracle for me and it's still only my first cycle and I'm also still not near recovered. Even still, it's been that good.

[flamingpie]

Dude I am 4 weeks today into my first UltraHard cycle at 3 pumps daily. It has literally been a God send. Took my recovery up to a place where life has been worth living again, starting within the first application.

I highly, highly recommend the Ultrahard, literally been a miracle for me and it's still only my first cycle and I'm also still not near recovered. Even still, it's been that good.

That's awesome to hear you're responding so well to the prohormones. I'm scheduling bloodwork to be done this weekend to check my E2, Free Test and Total Test levels. I've read that UH can lower your E2 quite a bit so I just wanna see where I'm at going into it. If all looks good, I'm gonna plan on doing a 4 week cycle in June.

Funny thing about that post I made 2 weeks ago. I mentioned I was on a bit of a downswing, but like 8 hours after making that post I got hit with this really euphoric feeling, popping random erections throughout the rest of the evening. The next morning I woke up with solid morning wood and had crazy libido throughout the day. The high libido didn't last forever, but I did have solid morning wood everyday for these last 14 days, with bursts of libido sprinkled in a few times throughout. But then oddly yesterday and today I no longer got morning wood, and even today I felt a bit off, mostly numbness down there. Chalking it up to just another downswing.

I've noticed something with Pine Pollen. When it comes to my PP tincture day in my rotation, I do the full dropper twice, and I respond so great to it. But when it comes to taking the PP powder, I've noticed that I need to constantly play around with the dosage. Like if I take anything more than 2 teaspoons, I almost instantly feel worse and it takes about 12 hours to feel good again. But if I take a lower dose like one teaspoon or even half a teaspoon, I not only feel fine but I get a jolt of energy and libido within 30 minutes.
Just strange that the tincture, which is supposed to be more potent, doesn't negatively effect me like the powder does at higher doses. Is there anything in the powder that gets lost when making the tincture that may be the culprit?

[flamingpie]

So I just went through a 5 day period of feeling like shit. In a moment of desperation I ordered Ultrahard, which shockingly has already been delivered.
So now here I am with my bottle of Ultrahard, but the irony is today I woke up feeling great again haha. I can't decide if I want to just pause my PPP and herbs to do an UH cycle, or to hold off on the UH for now and see if my gains keep improving.

I don't know why I'm so nervous about doing these prohormones lol. From what I can people have only had positive experiences with them. I'm just scared Im gonna do it wrong or if I'm missing something important.
So to be clear I start with 2 pumps a day and possibly work my way up to 4 or 5. Do I separate the pumps throughout the day, or do I do them all at once? And should I apply it on my arms/shoulders? Diet wise it sounds like I should eat more carbs throughout the day instead of backloading, so I'll do GF oatmeal at breakfast, bunch of fruit with lunch, and a bunch of sweet potatoes with dinner. Minimum of 4 week cycle, but also sounds like I can push it to like 6-8 weeks?
I know suppression is a big concern with these cycles, so is our herb cycle enough for a PCT? Maybe also with high dose Pine Pollen Powder daily, at like 1 tablespoon?

Sorry I'm so neurotic with this. Gonna read up on some threads here about other guys' cycles, and if I feel confident enough I'll start on Monday.

[strato]

So I just went through a 5 day period of feeling like shit. In a moment of desperation I ordered Ultrahard, which shockingly has already been delivered.
So now here I am with my bottle of Ultrahard, but the irony is today I woke up feeling great again haha. I can't decide if I want to just pause my PPP and herbs to do an UH cycle, or to hold off on the UH for now and see if my gains keep improving.

I don't know why I'm so nervous about doing these prohormones lol. From what I can people have only had positive experiences with them. I'm just scared Im gonna do it wrong or if I'm missing something important.
So to be clear I start with 2 pumps a day and possibly work my way up to 4 or 5. Do I separate the pumps throughout the day, or do I do them all at once? And should I apply it on my arms/shoulders? Diet wise it sounds like I should eat more carbs throughout the day instead of backloading, so I'll do GF oatmeal at breakfast, bunch of fruit with lunch, and a bunch of sweet potatoes with dinner. Minimum of 4 week cycle, but also sounds like I can push it to like 6-8 weeks?
I know suppression is a big concern with these cycles, so is our herb cycle enough for a PCT? Maybe also with high dose Pine Pollen Powder daily, at like 1 tablespoon?

Sorry I'm so neurotic with this. Gonna read up on some threads here about other guys' cycles, and if I feel confident enough I'll start on Monday.

Hey dude,

Sorry to hear you had a brief downswing. I totally get the anticipation about the prohormones, do all the research you need to feel sure about it one way or another for you. I recommend in particualr xxaleksi's road to recovery thread - his experiences on the prohormones in particular inspired me to take the plunge.

As far as I have determined, in moderate doses (of which 2-3 pumps daily is), the Ultrahard is fairly mild and safe. Yes the prohormones can cause your E to go down a bit, but nothing it won't bounce back from fairly quickly. As you said so yourself, it is basically a universally beneficial experience for PFS sufferers. Some very much so, others its more mild but still usually worth it. Even those who had more negative experiences (at least as far as I've encountered - which is hardly any for that matter), simply dropped the dose or cycle altogether and returned to baseline in a couple of weeks max. So as far as I can tell, suppression is not something to be seriously concerned about man imo, espeically if you're starting at a low 2-pump daily dose.

For me personally, I was willing to take the chance just to escape the hellish symptoms I was suffering. Even after months on the protocal, I was still fighting daily just to make it through. So it wasn't really it a matter of if I tried them, but when... in the end, I was beyond eager to get going on my first cycle lol I waited over a month for my UH to ship as I live in Aus and as soon as it arrived I took the plunge.

Of course, I did lots of research beforehand too and also found overall positive anecdotal evidence from PFS guys, so that made me even more assured it was the right course of action. And sitting here right now, it was was the best decision I could have made. As you saw in my thread, my first cycle literally changed my life. I am able to function and live life again with quite a bit of peace and joy sprinkled in too.

The risk thankfully and absolutely did pay off for me and I'm beyond grateful it worked out the way it did. I'm already looking forward to my next cycle in a couple of months time as I can still tell I am not near my old full self - but now I know that each cycle (along with the protocol of course) will keep massively lifting me onward to my inevitable recovery. This is a great feeling indeed after so so so much misery and hell. It's like the Ultrahard/prohormones showed me that there truly is light at the end of the tunnel.

Full disclosure though, I did experience low E symptoms that ramped up quite strongly between weeks 4-5. I ended up stopping the cycle at 5 weeks and 1 day because the symptoms were getting too much (I had achy joints, strong lethargy and slight anxiety mainly). However, I knew this was to be expected given all the research I'd done on others guy's cycles, so I wasn't really concerned either. These low E side are nothing like PFS sides which are beyond crippling and concerning when they happen. I could function the entire time with the low E sides, and it was more of a sense of 'this is not worth it... it's time to stop the cycle' that washed over me by week 5. Now at day 5 of PCT, I feel mostly back to normal again in terms of the E sides and my new recovery baseline (after a brief crash day 1-2 post cycle) has stuck. So anyway that's my experience, as I said I can't wait for my next cycle and would absolutely recommend them, especially if you really want to boost your recovery to a new level a lot faster.

With regards to dosing and application, yes 2-3 pumps daily is a moderate dose, 4-6 pumps imo is much stronger. Even 4 pumps daily made me feel a bit of anxiety, but I likely could have adjusted to this if I persisted. But I recommend sticking with a lower dose the entire first cycle, just to see how you handle it and especially since you are a bit apprehensive about it. I too stuck to 3 pumps daily for all of mine so it's still going to have an effect for sure. Then maybe in your next cycle, see how you go ramping it up to 4-5 pumps daily as I've seen other guys settle on about that mark as their sweet spot. I applied all 3 pumps in the AM most days, all at the same time. Two pumps across my chest/pec area and 1 pump onto my triceps/back arms area (I pumped it onto one arm first then spread it to my other arm using my other hand). Then was your hands and get on with your day, that's all there is to it. Anyway, hope this helps man, best of luck to your recovery!

[flamingpie]

Thanks for the encouragement!

Started my first Ultra Hard cycle today. Kept it simple at only one pump. Will probably keep it at one pump a day for the entire first week, and then evaluate at week two if I should increase to two pumps.
Will keep this thread updated on how the cycle goes. I'm planning on only doing 4 weeks but maybe I'll extend it if I'm feeling good.

[strato]

Thanks for the encouragement!

Started my first Ultra Hard cycle today. Kept it simple at only one pump. Will probably keep it at one pump a day for the entire first week, and then evaluate at week two if I should increase to two pumps.
Will keep this thread updated on how the cycle goes. I'm planning on only doing 4 weeks but maybe I'll extend it if I'm feeling good.

Awesome dude! Good luck and keep us posted.

Also don't forget to keep your potassium levels up to prevent wasting. I saw you eat a couple of bananas daily, so that might do it. I drank like 1/2 a litre of coconut water or more daily during my cycle.

[flamingpie]

I’m on day 6 of my UH cycle. So far I’ve only been doing 1 pump a day. Since day one there was an instant change in my mood that I noticed. Like I had more confidence, and was no longer feeling inclined to slouch or round my shoulders. Also don’t feel so sensitive to the cold anymore.
But so far still no morning wood, zero libido and weak erections. Is it time to jump it up to 2 pumps a day?

I’ve been pretty good keeping my potassium high. Eating bananas, squash, sweet potatoes, spinach, celery and beets every day. Every now and then I’ll have a glass of coconut water.

[strato]

So happy to hear it man, that's awesome news!

Yep I would, 2-3 pumps should start working more wonders for you. Adjust for a week and see.

I wouldn't worry about the lack of sexual benefits either, they will come. Often I've seen breakthroughs after a couple cycles or more + rigorous protocol. I myself didn't see much sexual shifts in my first cycle, but it's no biggie to me because they will come in time just like this.

If you want to supercharge results here though, you could always try jumping to 3 pumps daily + doing a 30day nofap streak. I did it off cycle a lot earlier in my recovery and it breathed a lot of new life back into that department relative to that point in my journey. Up to you. Anyway, proud of you buddy, keep going.

[flamingpie]

Today is Day 13 of my cycle.

On day 8 I increased to two pumps, and on day 12 I went to three pumps. Still zero libido, no erections and no morning wood. This is weird, because just two months ago I felt like my sexual sides were over. And now I'm feeling worse.

Just yesterday when I started my 3 pump per day I noticed my knees and wrists aching a bit. Also getting a red rash on my shoulders. But on the positive side I definitely have more energy in the gym, and I've been having better sleep.

The lack of libido/erections is making me think I should increase my dosage to four pumps, but the aching wrists and rash makes me think I should lower it. Thoughts?

[flamingpie]

Day 17 update.

Actually had a few days with morning wood this week. And on Monday I actually felt pretty fantastic all day. But since then I’ve been feeling kinda meh. Especially yesterday I felt so crummy.

Another positive is that my sleep really has been great. No more tossing and turning for an hour, no more waking in the middle of the night. And no more feeling sluggish upon waking.

Today I finally got that “dht itch” in my scalp that I’ve seen others mention. But on a negative side, that red rash is getting worse. Really all around the places I apply the gel. Also my wrists and fingers feel a little stiff.

[DKnighten]

Day 17 update.

Actually had a few days with morning wood this week. And on Monday I actually felt pretty fantastic all day. But since then I’ve been feeling kinda meh. Especially yesterday I felt so crummy.

Another positive is that my sleep really has been great. No more tossing and turning for an hour, no more waking in the middle of the night. And no more feeling sluggish upon waking.

Today I finally got that “dht itch” in my scalp that I’ve seen others mention. But on a negative side, that red rash is getting worse. Really all around the places I apply the gel. Also my wrists and fingers feel a little stiff.

Great to hear your progress. Could you touch on what your diet is like through all of this? Did you have bad gut issues initially?

[flamingpie]

Day 21 update.

Things have actually been pretty great for the last 5 days. I was thinking - I initially said I was gonna do a 4 week cycle. But the first week of my cycle I was only on 1 pump a day. Because of that, do you think I should extend my cycle to 5 weeks? Seems like things really kicked in gear with 3 pumps a day. But on the flip side, I don't want to get too greedy with a good thing.

My diet has basically been the same as it always has, only now my appetite is through the roof on cycle so I've just been increasing how much I eat. I dont feel like I do well on grains, so when I need to increase carbs I just eat more sweet potatoes, fruits, cassava pasta etc. I eat anywhere from 2600 to 3000 calories a day.

[flamingpie]

I ended my cycle at exactly 4 weeks. Back on the herb rotation now.

Question: Since ultra hard is known the deplete estrogen, should I wait a few weeks before I start my daily pine pollen back up?
Also, how long should I wait before I start another cycle? 8 weeks?

[Zerolibido]

You eve feel.like trying hcg or TR T under the auspices of a medical.progessional?

[Zerolibido]

I was more recovered than this much more recovered
No sleep issues until that workplace bullying alignments
I anthem rollicking die

In had the.isles case anywhere

I'm like a regard asking about ducking juicers and shit thkugh

[strato]

Flamingpie, how you progressing man? Did you start your second cycle? I've personally just wrapped up my third cycle. 2nd was UltraHard solo. This 3rd cycle was UltraHard + Alpha4. Feeling mentally completely recovered on this cycle, sexual sides still there but getting better too. Hoping you've been doing well man. I've been mostly active on the PFS discord recently since this place has gone under, but will be giving a new update to my thread soon.

[Zerolibido]

Anyone for a discord kink

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I think I I'm gonna fucking tip myself

I'm forty six
I have insanely bad symptoms
For years I was well and went to about one hundred concerts

Man in 2014 intent to Wimbledon on.my own overnight bus and train now canteen slowdown the street