Transdermals

[JoeP26]

This (the below video) is what I was trying to tell everyone before they jumped down my throat and act like defensive babies. Good to know someone else out there confirms what doctors who treat PFS and gym bros who believe in PFS are saying. Transdermal Androsterone products get immediately converted to DHT where it's applied. Problem is, DHT is too dense to get past the blood brain barrier. Androsterone needs to go straight to brain for conversion and stimulation. Start looking into oral Androsterone options for PFS. It's not difficult.

WATCH: Topical Nandrolone For Hair Loss Prevention And Bodybuilding - YouTube (http://youtu.be/K0ZhA5WEAi0)

[Maxout777]

Why are you STILL butthurt about our interchange on here? You sound like a child, I never jumped down your throat, I just challenged the viewpoint on it. I welcome opposing viewpoints, I just like to see the proof to the pudding so to speak. Which you put some here, which is excellent.

Honestly though, you still post so negatively toward us here just for challenging you? You went to the point of posting in your thread that you were leaving a whole forum based on the interchange with two people? I mean Jesus man, I never once wanted to run you away. It makes you sound like a child to keep doing this. To be frank - no one needs your silly insults here. If you want to do that shit, head to PH. If you want to stay and have interchange and have the occasional flare up, which happens in debate - then stick around. But can we please can this shit? It’s exhausting, and we both have better things to do with our time. Agree to disagree and then get over it.

To make it perfectly clear: I'm not going to respond to anything you post again. This doesn't mean I don't want you here. Good content is always enjoyable here. All I ask is that you quit taking shots at older members just because they disagree with you. Let it go my man. Life's too short to waste time arguing on forums. I'm here to help guys and pay it forward, not waste my time bickering with you.

[JoeP26]

To make it perfectly clear: I'm not going to respond to anything you post again.

Likewise

[The Goat]

Why does it have a brain effect if it does not cross the BBB?

[Karlucchi]

This (the below video) is what I was trying to tell everyone before they jumped down my throat and act like defensive babies. Good to know someone else out there confirms what doctors who treat PFS and gym bros who believe in PFS are saying. Transdermal Androsterone products get immediately converted to DHT where it's applied. Problem is, DHT is too dense to get past the blood brain barrier. Androsterone needs to go straight to brain for conversion and stimulation. Start looking into oral Androsterone options for PFS. It's not difficult.

WATCH: Topical Nandrolone For Hair Loss Prevention And Bodybuilding - YouTube (http://youtu.be/K0ZhA5WEAi0)

What I got from watching that video is that a certain amount of the topical Androsterone would saturate the 5-AR at the tissue where applied and would convert to DHT like you are saying. That does not necessarily mean that ALL of it is converted to DHT before it reaches the blood stream. He talks about if applied to skin like the scrotum that has a high level of 5-AR... I wonder where on the body has a low level of 5-AR?

To summarize, oral Androsterone would likely be a better bang for your buck but to say that topical will not get Androsterone to the brain is incorrect.

[delsolrob]

First, you're thinking in absolutes...there is not a 100% conversion in the skin to DHT. Yes, there are some regions of the skin that are quite rich in 5a reductase...and can cause SOME conversion to DHT (generally speaking, we want this).

what you're also not realizing is there's a conversion path from DHT to androsterone down the pathway (via 3α-HSD). So, while androsterone is converting to DHT, there is also going to be some conversion back to androsterone from dht downstream.

I appreciate people trying to learn, but these are complicated pathways and topics...you're looking through a small keyhole and calling what you see the whole picture. And making the mistake of telling everyone else what you see is the whole truth...especially when they try to tell you there's more to the picture.

Additionally, comparing oral vs transdermal - the video you showed was comparing injectable vs transdermal...you're also confusing apples and oranges again. You also make the mistake of forgetting 5a reductase also occurs in the liver. By your same logic then oral doesn't work and injection of androsterone is the only option for your purpose...not the case, but simply to demonstrate the flawed logic here.

I don't have hours to sit and post a ton of information, but wanted to chime in with some input on this topic. But, the point is that topical androsterone is quite effective

[Cdsnuts]

What I got from watching that video is that a certain amount of the topical Androsterone would saturate the 5-AR at the tissue where applied and would convert to DHT like you are saying. That does not necessarily mean that ALL of it is converted to DHT before it reaches the blood stream. He talks about if applied to skin like the scrotum that has a high level of 5-AR... I wonder where on the body has a low level of 5-AR?

To summarize, oral Androsterone would likely be a better bang for your buck but to say that topical will not get Androsterone to the brain is incorrect.

Correct. But that comes with a footnote, of course.

And Joe....I haven't been around lately, which by the way is going to change today, but it seems that you are just here to try and poke holes in a tried and true way to heal.

As we all know, there are alot of moving parts to this protocol, and they are all important in their own way towards your recovery, but the most important moving part out of all of them is, MINDSET.

If you're looking for reasons why something won't work or you're trying to search for the negatives in something, you're not doing yourself any favors in moving yourself forward.

Do you know who this protocol works the best for? The guys that jump right in with both feet in full faith that they are on their way to recovery. They follow EXACTLY what is laid out for them to the tee. You know what happens? They recover.

You should be spending your precious time on looking for reasons why this protocol works. Research each thing on it's own. Myself and many, many others have gotten more then enough benefit from pro-hormones to look at this post with a chuckle. They work perfectly for what they were meant to do. No need to think about anything else.

If you want to argue against this method, this isn't the place for you. This forum, or this section rather, is for discussing the protocol that is recommended to heal. That's it. There are plenty other forums for you to argue on, if that's what you like to do.....at least that's what it seems anyway.

[JoeP26]

First, you're thinking in absolutes...there is not a 100% conversion in the skin to DHT. Yes, there are some regions of the skin that are quite rich in 5a reductase...and can cause SOME conversion to DHT (generally speaking, we want this).

what you're also not realizing is there's a conversion path from DHT to androsterone down the pathway (via 3α-HSD). So, while androsterone is converting to DHT, there is also going to be some conversion back to androsterone from dht downstream.

I appreciate people trying to learn, but these are complicated pathways and topics...you're looking through a small keyhole and calling what you see the whole picture. And making the mistake of telling everyone else what you see is the whole truth...especially when they try to tell you there's more to the picture.

Additionally, comparing oral vs transdermal - the video you showed was comparing injectable vs transdermal...you're also confusing apples and oranges again. You also make the mistake of forgetting 5a reductase also occurs in the liver. By your same logic then oral doesn't work and injection of androsterone is the only option for your purpose...not the case, but simply to demonstrate the flawed logic here.

I don't have hours to sit and post a ton of information, but wanted to chime in with some input on this topic. But, the point is that topical androsterone is quite effective

See this is what I was looking for to begin with. Not, "You clearly don't know how transdermals work," and that's it. As if to say, "Sit down, shut up, and stop asking questions, peasant." You all expect me to sink literal thousands of dollars into your pockets for goods to fix something that has turned my life upside down. If I or anyone else has questions, explain. It's the least you can do. Im not stupid. I can understand science talk. I'm so tired of hearing in here, "just trust the protocol," in response to anything when I've got many guys from here telling me they've been at this for a long time (4+ years) with little to no results. My confidence is shaken, therefore, that's why I ask. Not to mention the reputation this place has outside of here. In spite of that, I figured what the hell. Yes, I realize you guys are making money off of our ailments and I respect the hustle. Honestly, I do. I have no issue with it. However, if you want people to be confident in this all and to know that what is said out there is bullshit, then be transparent. Like the above. I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just really turned off by the treatment.

On another note, I will try Ultra Hard next time with this info in mind. I appreciate it.

[Turnover25]

See this is what I was looking for to begin with. Not, "You clearly don't know how transdermals work," and that's it. As if to say, "Sit down, shut up, and stop asking questions, peasant." You all expect me to sink literal thousands of dollars into your pockets for goods to fix something that has turned my life upside down. If I or anyone else has questions, explain. It's the least you can do. Im not stupid. I can understand science talk. I'm so tired of hearing in here, "just trust the protocol," in response to anything when I've got many guys from here telling me they've been at this for a long time (4+ years) with little to no results. My confidence is shaken, therefore, that's why I ask. Not to mention the reputation this place has outside of here. In spite of that, I figured what the hell. Yes, I realize you guys are making money off of our ailments and I respect the hustle. Honestly, I do. I have no issue with it. However, if you want people to be confident in this all and to know that what is said out there is bullshit, then be transparent. Like the above. I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just really turned off by the treatment.

On another note, I will try Ultra Hard next time with this info in mind. I appreciate it.

Go read my introduction thread, also my entire official thread as well. That’s why I put it there to help others and keep tabs on myself also. I came here destroyed. I’m not recovered yet but I am light years from where I was. See how I went from a terrified and worrisome dude to a guy who jokes and has more of a normal life.

I struggle with self doubt as well as anyone else, but I stuck to this because I didnt see the alternative. Either this or trying to figure it out myself. I can’t speak for those other guys you talked to, but hopefully if you’re looking for it, you can find some inspiration in the words I’ve put down. I can only add my personal contribution.

I wish you a full recovery my dude, keep on fighting.

[Comewhatmay]

See this is what I was looking for to begin with. Not, "You clearly don't know how transdermals work," and that's it. As if to say, "Sit down, shut up, and stop asking questions, peasant." You all expect me to sink literal thousands of dollars into your pockets for goods to fix something that has turned my life upside down. If I or anyone else has questions, explain. It's the least you can do. Im not stupid. I can understand science talk. I'm so tired of hearing in here, "just trust the protocol," in response to anything when I've got many guys from here telling me they've been at this for a long time (4+ years) with little to no results. My confidence is shaken, therefore, that's why I ask. Not to mention the reputation this place has outside of here. In spite of that, I figured what the hell. Yes, I realize you guys are making money off of our ailments and I respect the hustle. Honestly, I do. I have no issue with it. However, if you want people to be confident in this all and to know that what is said out there is bullshit, then be transparent. Like the above. I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just really turned off by the treatment.

On another note, I will try Ultra Hard next time with this info in mind. I appreciate it.

First off I don't for the life of me see how the protocol is sinking thousands into the pockets of CD and Co I mean there are plenty of people who have recovered and openly say they didn't buy the herbs through CD's channels and I highly doubt CD nuts is living off our purchases of herbs unless of course or he gets a cut off all the paleo foods you buy at your local supermarket or perhaps he cuts a deal with your local gym or better yet he owns a company called Androhard I mean come on.

Also these people that are supposedly on the protocol but haven't seen any or little improvement where are they I mean if say, in 4 years time I was still on here complaining about what I am currently going through I would respectfully come here and ask for advice on what's obviously not working for me. I wouldn't be on a WhatsApp group saying this isn't working etc. Even those that are still here after 4 years plus they will openly tell you that it's due to their own fault that they are not recovered as they were constantly slacking in important areas. I'm saying this because it's easy if someone comes here and sees a message like this it could see them go down a more harmful route.

Bottom line is this protocol works when given it everything you have. I've yet to see someone who is clearly doing the full protocol for a substantial period of time not make vast improvements.

[JoeP26]

First off I don't for the life of me see how the protocol is sinking thousands into the pockets of CD and Co I mean there are plenty of people who have recovered and openly say they didn't buy the herbs through CD's channels and I highly doubt CD nuts is living off our purchases of herbs unless of course or he gets a cut off all the paleo foods you buy at your local supermarket or perhaps he cuts a deal with your local gym or better yet he owns a company called Androhard I mean come on.

Also these people that are supposedly on the protocol but haven't seen any or little improvement where are they I mean if say, in 4 years time I was still on here complaining about what I am currently going through I would respectfully come here and ask for advice on what's obviously not working for me. I wouldn't be on a WhatsApp group saying this isn't working etc. Even those that are still here after 4 years plus they will openly tell you that it's due to their own fault that they are not recovered as they were constantly slacking in important areas. I'm saying this because it's easy if someone comes here and sees a message like this it could see them go down a more harmful route.

Bottom line is this protocol works when given it everything you have. I've yet to see someone who is clearly doing the full protocol for a substantial period of time not make vast improvements.

Notice the wording I used. I didn't say they were making thousands off of us. I said we would have to pay thousands for all of the product. And we do. I didn't even buy everything in the protocol and, instead, bought the best deal I could find on Amazon. I sank a little over $700. Annually, you are looking at spending over 2K on all of it. Sadly, not everyone has that kind of money. PFS often cripples the person from work. Now, with COVID, it makes it much more difficult on an already difficult situation.

I'm not going to attack the guys that didn't have success. We don't know what their situations were/are. In any case, this thread was about Transdermals. Rod responded with accurate information, so I consider the topic to be over.

[Cdsnuts]

See this is what I was looking for to begin with. Not, "You clearly don't know how transdermals work," and that's it. As if to say, "Sit down, shut up, and stop asking questions, peasant." You all expect me to sink literal thousands of dollars into your pockets for goods to fix something that has turned my life upside down. If I or anyone else has questions, explain. It's the least you can do. Im not stupid. I can understand science talk. I'm so tired of hearing in here, "just trust the protocol," in response to anything when I've got many guys from here telling me they've been at this for a long time (4+ years) with little to no results. My confidence is shaken, therefore, that's why I ask. Not to mention the reputation this place has outside of here. In spite of that, I figured what the hell. Yes, I realize you guys are making money off of our ailments and I respect the hustle. Honestly, I do. I have no issue with it. However, if you want people to be confident in this all and to know that what is said out there is bullshit, then be transparent. Like the above. I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just really turned off by the treatment.

On another note, I will try Ultra Hard next time with this info in mind. I appreciate it.

What reputation is that? Having the most recoveries out of any other place you can find? Believe me, if some one is here for four years and they are still having problems, THEY are the problem, that's a fact. Everything else is just unsuccessful men's usual reactions to things they can't make work for themselves. Typical behavior in regards to ANYTHING in their life that they can't get right. Blame someone else. At this point, I've been around long enough, seen enough, heard enough to confidently say this.

Nothing to argue about here....at all.

There maybe negative things said about this place by a handfull of butthurt dudes, but consider the source.....lol. C'mon now. There is also WAY more positives spoken by the hundreds of guys this place has helped. I have the testimonials and posts here to prove it. Not that I have to, or even want to. As a matter of fact, it would save me a ton of time and effort if the type of men that want to come here and have to have it proven to them that it works, just didn't bother coming here at all. I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone.

This isn't the place for them. Plenty of other places to go. I'm over it.

This is the way it works here:

You come here, read all the stickies, read all the posts, and start on the protocol. If you have pertinent questions about the specific steps, that's understandable.

In regards to the actual protocol, there is nothing to argue about. Nothing to prove. If that isn't good enough for certain people.....bye. Your life. Stay sick, stay crippled.

Everything you need to NOT be that way is here, if you want it. End of story, nothing to discuss.

[Turnover25]

First off I don't for the life of me see how the protocol is sinking thousands into the pockets of CD and Co I mean there are plenty of people who have recovered and openly say they didn't buy the herbs through CD's channels and I highly doubt CD nuts is living off our purchases of herbs unless of course or he gets a cut off all the paleo foods you buy at your local supermarket or perhaps he cuts a deal with your local gym or better yet he owns a company called Androhard I mean come on.

Also these people that are supposedly on the protocol but haven't seen any or little improvement where are they I mean if say, in 4 years time I was still on here complaining about what I am currently going through I would respectfully come here and ask for advice on what's obviously not working for me. I wouldn't be on a WhatsApp group saying this isn't working etc. Even those that are still here after 4 years plus they will openly tell you that it's due to their own fault that they are not recovered as they were constantly slacking in important areas. I'm saying this because it's easy if someone comes here and sees a message like this it could see them go down a more harmful route.

Bottom line is this protocol works when given it everything you have. I've yet to see someone who is clearly doing the full protocol for a substantial period of time not make vast improvements.

For real. If there really is people who have been doing this consistently and strictly for 4 years, why don’t they post here instead of randomly on a WhatsApp. I call bs. I’m sure they were so strict about it.

Some random dude also hijacked my thread the first week I signed up saying the protocol almost “killed him”. Should we believe him too?

[Cdsnuts]

For real. If there really is people who have been doing this consistently and strictly for 4 years, why don’t they post here instead of randomly on a WhatsApp. I call bs. I’m sure they were so strict about it.

Some random dude also hijacked my thread the first week I signed up saying the protocol almost “killed him”. Should we believe him too?

All bullshit.

Living as healthily as possible almost killed someone? Lol. Just when you think you've heard it all.

To not have ANY improvement after six months, if you're being 100%, is impossible. Four years, well, you know the deal there.

Unfortunately alot of guys like to complain about their failures rather then do something to fix it. Such is life.

[Turnover25]

All bullshit.

Living as healthily as possible almost killed someone? Lol. Just when you think you've heard it all.

To not have ANY improvement after six months, if you're being 100%, is impossible. Four years, well, you know the deal there.

Unfortunately alot of guys like to complain about their failures rather then do something to fix it. Such is life.

Yeah, said the herbs made it so he had to almost get his stomach removed and that he was currently in the hospital, it’s right in my thread. I was in a horrible spot back then too. Like what’s the point of that? To try and bring me down with him?

He obviously had problems that stretched further than PFS.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah, said the herbs made it so he had to almost get his stomach removed and that he was currently in the hospital, it’s right in my thread. I was in a horrible spot back then too. Like what’s the point of that? To try and bring me down with him?

He obviously had problems that stretched further than PFS.

Misery loves company, unfortunately. Alot of people have the mentality that if they're miserable, everyone else should be too.

[delsolrob]

See this is what I was looking for to begin with. Not, "You clearly don't know how transdermals work," and that's it. As if to say, "Sit down, shut up, and stop asking questions, peasant." You all expect me to sink literal thousands of dollars into your pockets for goods to fix something that has turned my life upside down. If I or anyone else has questions, explain. It's the least you can do. Im not stupid. I can understand science talk. I'm so tired of hearing in here, "just trust the protocol," in response to anything when I've got many guys from here telling me they've been at this for a long time (4+ years) with little to no results. My confidence is shaken, therefore, that's why I ask. Not to mention the reputation this place has outside of here. In spite of that, I figured what the hell. Yes, I realize you guys are making money off of our ailments and I respect the hustle. Honestly, I do. I have no issue with it. However, if you want people to be confident in this all and to know that what is said out there is bullshit, then be transparent. Like the above. I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just really turned off by the treatment.

On another note, I will try Ultra Hard next time with this info in mind. I appreciate it.

I'm not sure what's pointed at me and what's pointed at CD.

#1 I'm the owner of the forum and I'm the one who's financially responsible - there are no paid sponsors and I've kept this forum alive for the community here and also as a repository of information. You have never seen me do email blasts to members and you've also never seen me or any of my reps from other forums jump into topics to try to push product. Hell, I made a topical androsterone (alpha andro) and CD preferred another brands products - so that's the one he recommended to you guys...this forum was never about the $

#2 "Sit down, shut up, and stop asking questions, peasant." frankly, I find your perspective on this ironic.

I'm not sure why you took my post about transdermals personally. You make a blanket statement: transdermals don't work and you provide some useless comparisons, no data, and an example of one product that didn't seem to work well for you - Was I wrong about your expertise in transdermals? Do you think your limited use of one product made you an expert? Did I call you an idiot and berate you? NO, I made my observation of your position and lack of experience and poked at you for making a blanket statement with limited knowledge. Then outlined some concerns regarding the transdermal you were referencing and the comparisons you were making.

did you come back with any questions, explanations, etc? The only thing you came back with the snarky reply about your neuro I just exited the conversation...I don't have time for that, and it sure comes across like you think you already know it all. Plus, you're not going to listen to some "Anonymous guys on a forum"...obviously, your Neuro proved to know it all :p

you may benefit from asking questions rather than posting what you believe to be true - Even the first post of this thread was like "see, I was right and check this out - you are all wrong" There was a productive outcome because it provided an argument for me to discuss against. That said, it's less combative to say "hey, I saw this video and it made me question the use of topical androsterone...can someone elaborate?" there's a way of communicating that's not combative, arrogant, or pushing a false narrative...if I weren't there to follow up, the majority of guys here would have assumed your post to be valid.

I would expect the following from the members here:
Be humble, learn, share, and support your community - this a community for support!

[JoeP26]

I'm not sure what's pointed at me and what's pointed at CD.

#1 I'm the owner of the forum and I'm the one who's financially responsible - there are no paid sponsors and I've kept this forum alive for the community here and also as a repository of information. You have never seen me do email blasts to members and you've also never seen me or any of my reps from other forums jump into topics to try to push product. Hell, I made a topical androsterone (alpha andro) and CD preferred another brands products - so that's the one he recommended to you guys...this forum was never about the $

#2 "Sit down, shut up, and stop asking questions, peasant." frankly, I find your perspective on this ironic.

I'm not sure why you took my post about transdermals personally. You make a blanket statement: transdermals don't work and you provide some useless comparisons, no data, and an example of one product that didn't seem to work well for you - Was I wrong about your expertise in transdermals? Do you think your limited use of one product made you an expert? Did I call you an idiot and berate you? NO, I made my observation of your position and lack of experience and poked at you for making a blanket statement with limited knowledge. Then outlined some concerns regarding the transdermal you were referencing and the comparisons you were making.

did you come back with any questions, explanations, etc? The only thing you came back with the snarky reply about your neuro I just exited the conversation...I don't have time for that, and it sure comes across like you think you already know it all. Plus, you're not going to listen to some "Anonymous guys on a forum"...obviously, your Neuro proved to know it all :p

you may benefit from asking questions rather than posting what you believe to be true - Even the first post of this thread was like "see, I was right and check this out - you are all wrong" There was a productive outcome because it provided an argument for me to discuss against. That said, it's less combative to say "hey, I saw this video and it made me question the use of topical androsterone...can someone elaborate?" there's a way of communicating that's not combative, arrogant, or pushing a false narrative...if I weren't there to follow up, the majority of guys here would have assumed your post to be valid.

I would expect the following from the members here:
Be humble, learn, share, and support your community - this a community for support!

I said I respect the hustle. But, since the finances have gotten brought up, transparency is always good and this would help clarify conspiracy theories out there. Let's be open about how the finances around here work. CD has stated, "Definitely buy from there as it helps keep the lights on here, so to speak." So CD sells us product that he makes commission on or gets directly from the manufacturer and marks it up a little. He then pays you and you pay the hoster of the site, correct?

Understand, I am in rough shape and I'm being put in a tug of war while feeling like the most chronic, intense shit I have ever physically felt in my life. I am beyond stressed and overwhelmed, especially with the constant conflicting information that comes with this territory (PFS). One person tells me something and then another tells me something else and everyone refuses to agree. It's exhausting.

This is to prior replies: We can dunk on the WhatsApp group all we want but we got 86 guys in there (and counting), a few have recovered so far, and most remaining report noticeable improvements. Some are using TMO and some are using other stuff. The point of the group wasn't to be competitor to here. But, frankly, anonymous forum boards are so 2000s and, with a condition like this, it's beneficial to have real-time communication (both text and phone) with others who understand what you're going through. It puts you in a better mentality, which that alone is beneficial to recovery. I am not going to apologize for setting it up nor be made to feel guilty. It should've been done a long time ago.

With all of that being said, I'm putting this topic/thread to rest. I'm drained and taking a break from everything PFS. TMO, forums, chat groups, everything.

[Turnover25]

I said I respect the hustle. But, since the finances have gotten brought up, transparency is always good and this would help clarify conspiracy theories out there. Let's be open about how the finances around here work. CD has stated, "Definitely buy from there as it helps keep the lights on here, so to speak." So CD sells us product that he makes commission on or gets directly from the manufacturer and marks it up a little. He then pays you and you pay the hoster of the site, correct?

Understand, I am in rough shape and I'm being put in a tug of war while feeling like the most chronic, intense shit I have ever physically felt in my life. I am beyond stressed and overwhelmed, especially with the constant conflicting information that comes with this territory (PFS). One person tells me something and then another tells me something else and everyone refuses to agree. It's exhausting.

This is to prior replies: We can dunk on the WhatsApp group all we want but we got 86 guys in there (and counting), a few have recovered so far, and most remaining report noticeable improvements. Some are using TMO and some are using other stuff. The point of the group wasn't to be competitor to here. But, frankly, anonymous forum boards are so 2000s and, with a condition like this, it's beneficial to have real-time communication (both text and phone) with others who understand what you're going through. It puts you in a better mentality, which that alone is beneficial to recovery. I am not going to apologize for setting it up nor be made to feel guilty. It should've been done a long time ago.

With all of that being said, I'm putting this topic/thread to rest. I'm drained and taking a break from everything PFS. TMO, forums, chat groups, everything.

I don’t want to be a dick, you’ve shown me support in some of my darkest periods, but you made it sound like you had a WhatsApp group full of 70+ guys that were strictly and 100% doing TMO and have seen little to no improvements. That’s where the backlash from some of us came from, that’s complete anecdodle. I don’t even see that many guys here, and nobody posts about how depressing their lives are because were simply not in as bad of a place as we were.

I agree you need support but the WhatsApp group full of dudes talking about they’ve been suffering with zero improvement for 4+ years doesn’t sound like it’s doing wonders for your mental health. I forget this shit is supposedly “incurable and permanent” until someone comes and says shit like you did, which only causes stress for some of us. There’s a reason I don’t dick around on other forums.

Honestly man, I don’t care about others experiences, I believe I can recover and I’ve come a long way, and I don’t need you shoveling doubt into my head. Get it together man.

[Cdsnuts]

I don’t want to be a dick, you’ve shown me support in some of my darkest periods, but you made it sound like you had a WhatsApp group full of 70+ guys that were strictly and 100% doing TMO and have seen little to no improvements. That’s where the backlash from some of us came from, that’s complete anecdodle. I don’t even see that many guys here, and nobody posts about how depressing their lives are because were simply not in as bad of a place as we were.

I agree you need support but the WhatsApp group full of dudes talking about they’ve been suffering with zero improvement for 4+ years doesn’t sound like it’s doing wonders for your mental health. I forget this shit is supposedly “incurable and permanent” until someone comes and says shit like you did, which only causes stress for some of us. There’s a reason I don’t dick around on other forums.

Honestly man, I don’t care about others experiences, I believe I can recover and I’ve come a long way, and I don’t need you shoveling doubt into my head. Get it together man.

You just keep your nose to the grindstone and do what you've been doing. You're correct in staying with one group because you can see what happens when you go around and talk to too many different people with different mindsets. You get completely paralyzed with indecision and do nothing. Or, even worse, you'll do a little from this protocol a little from that protocol and you'll get NOWHERE. You've heard the saying "Too many cooks ruin the soup."

It's clear this is what is happening to Joe.

To all those reading this: YOU EITHER DO THIS PROTOCOL OR ANOTHER. You don't mix and match. You have to throw your lot in with one side or the other, that's the way it goes, for the most part.

When you get guys who start worrying about who is making money off of what, it does nothing for them. Rather, they should be reading the recoveries. Maybe reach out for some of the guys who posted recoveries, God knows there are enough of them here!! Can't say that for any other forum.....at all.

All this bullshit just serves to water down the bulk on knowledge held in this forum, which, Rob, THANK YOU btw. Huge of you, really. If I were to disappear tomorrow, between my website and this place, nobody would ever need to ask a question again. It's all here folks.

Let's all get it together and put the bullshit away.

Lastly, what I do here isn't a "hustle." I do this because I feel strongly about it and if I can make a little chunk on the side, then so be it. Honestly, when shit like this sparks off, it's not worth the couple dollars I make from my site. I couldn't live off of doing this, just put it that way. I have a full time business that I own and operate. That's where I make my bread and butter. This is, and has always been, a labor of love for me.

The end.

[xxaleksi]

Yeah it's a shame seeing some of the posts here. All it does is cause anxiety for the new guys who see this and think maybe this won't work for them. Not to mention many pfs guys already have a fucked up stress response so this could really send them to the edge.

Also anyone with a brain realizes CD isn't making a living out of some fucking affiliate links on a website lol. The thought of it is ridiculous. Also it's even more ridiculous to bash CD for being absent from the forum for a few months, like I saw Joe do. He's been helping people for free, for years, it's normal to want to take time away from it every once in a while.

I just hope CD still sticks around cuz for every 1 hater there's like 10 who are thankful for his help.

[JoeP26]

You just keep your nose to the grindstone and do what you've been doing. You're correct in staying with one group because you can see what happens when you go around and talk to too many different people with different mindsets. You get completely paralyzed with indecision and do nothing. Or, even worse, you'll do a little from this protocol a little from that protocol and you'll get NOWHERE. You've heard the saying "Too many cooks ruin the soup.

It's clear this is what is happening to Joe.

To all those reading this: YOU EITHER DO THIS PROTOCOL OR ANOTHER. You don't mix and match. You have to throw your lot in with one side or the other, that's the way it goes, for the most part.

When you get guys who start worrying about who is making money off of what, it does nothing for them. Rather, they should be reading the recoveries. Maybe reach out for some of the guys who posted recoveries, God knows there are enough of them here!! Can't say that for any other forum.....at all.

All this bullshit just serves to water down the bulk on knowledge held in this forum, which, Rob, THANK YOU btw. Huge of you, really. If I were to disappear tomorrow, between my website and this place, nobody would ever need to ask a question again. It's all here folks.

Let's all get it together and put the bullshit away.

Lastly, what I do here isn't a "hustle." I do this because I feel strongly about it and if I can make a little chunk on the side, then so be it. Honestly, when shit like this sparks off, it's not worth the couple dollars I make from my site. I couldn't live off of doing this, just put it that way. I have a full time business that I own and operate. That's where I make my bread and butter. This is, and has always been, a labor of love for me.

The end.

You're right. I have a lot of people that contact me. Many from here, many from Hack, and many from PH. Some even that just find me through social accounts. And doctors, globally, reach out too. I listen to everyone and what one person says to me, that makes sense at the time of it being said, conflicts with what someone else says and it just becomes stressful because no can agree. And it's extremely complicated and stressful. I am only trying to find out what is legit and what is not.

Understand, COVID has destroyed my family and I have had to shell out thousands a month to them to keep them and their kids afloat. I couldn't do the protocol right now, regardless. We can barely afford food at the house. All the more reason why this is stressful. My decision right now boils down to choosing between this and half assing it from financial constraints or stick with a doctor with a fair success rate at treatment. It's not easy.

I don't use hustle in a bad way, though I understand why the mind immediately goes to the negative connotation. You're a business guy who understands to a degree the art of persuasion. Little to nothing in life is free and that includes recovering from PFS. I've never faulted you for making money at all. In fact, I've stuck up for you doing it. There has to be an incentive to stick around for something like this. But, obviously, others on the outside looking in will see it differently and throw around the conspiracy theories. And I only feel that being transparent squelches it. Now we know and the world is better for it.

Also, I do not fault you for taking time off. At all. The problem is, I connected hella skeptical guys to you and they sent money for stuff, never heard back, and got upset and their newly formed trust was destroyed. It didn't help matters. Having been completely dedicated to the protocol for 6 months (and I mean that 100%, I worked and spent my ass off) I saw little improvements. Bare in mind, it was Dutasteride for me and that stuff stays in the system for a long time, so that's my logic and probably why.

I'm just in a place where I don't know what to believe anymore, I'm tired of this entire health battle, and I'd much prefer a quick ending than endure the physical agony any further.

[JoeP26]

Also it's even more ridiculous to bash CD for being absent from the forum for a few months, like I saw Joe do.

I didn't bash him. I said he ditched (he did for a bit) and left guys hanging who ordered product (he did). I never said he's a terrible person or called him names for it. And I didn't presume to know why that was happening. I stated what was going on. It put a bunch of stress on me because I referred the guys and they got pissed at me for something I couldn't control. In any case, it doesn't matter and it's best to drop it.


I just hope CD still sticks around cuz for every 1 hater there's like 10 who are thankful for his help.

I hope he does too.

[Cdsnuts]

You're right. I have a lot of people that contact me. Many from here, many from Hack, and many from PH. Some even that just find me through social accounts. And doctors, globally, reach out too. I listen to everyone and what one person says to me, that makes sense at the time of it being said, conflicts with what someone else says and it just becomes stressful because no can agree. And it's extremely complicated and stressful. I am only trying to find out what is legit and what is not.

Understand, COVID has destroyed my family and I have had to shell out thousands a month to them to keep them and their kids afloat. I couldn't do the protocol right now, regardless. We can barely afford food at the house. All the more reason why this is stressful. My decision right now boils down to choosing between this and half assing it from financial constraints or stick with a doctor with a fair success rate at treatment. It's not easy.

I don't use hustle in a bad way, though I understand why the mind immediately goes to the negative connotation. You're a business guy who understands to a degree the art of persuasion. Little to nothing in life is free and that includes recovering from PFS. I've never faulted you for making money at all. In fact, I've stuck up for you doing it. There has to be an incentive to stick around for something like this. But, obviously, others on the outside looking in will see it differently and throw around the conspiracy theories. And I only feel that being transparent squelches it. Now we know and the world is better for it.

Also, I do not fault you for taking time off. At all. The problem is, I connected hella skeptical guys to you and they sent money for stuff, never heard back, and got upset and their newly formed trust was destroyed. It didn't help matters. Having been completely dedicated to the protocol for 6 months (and I mean that 100%, I worked and spent my ass off) I saw little improvements. Bare in mind, it was Dutasteride for me and that stuff stays in the system for a long time, so that's my logic and probably why.

I'm just in a place where I don't know what to believe anymore, I'm tired of this entire health battle, and I'd much prefer a quick ending than endure the physical agony any further.

I'm not here to persuade anyone nor do I. The results speak for themselves. The testimonials and recoveries along with these forum posts speak for themselves. You won't find that many anywhere else that I know of. I actually say often, whether guys do it, or don't do it, doesn't matter to me. It's their decision. If they decide to do it, I will help as much as I can. If they see it through, they then become believers when they get their health back.

Just so you know, Joe, I belonged to this forum as simply a member since 2012. I was found here by a few PFS guys because I stupidly used the same screen name and then the flood gates opened. The rest of the forum died and we are the only ones here now. So many guys wanted to know what I did after my post on PH. Then and only then did I decide to build the website. But man.....you try and spread what you know, and what worked for you, and you get crucified by the down and outs.

Recoveries from all over mean nothing to them. Guys improving from devastated to functional mean nothing. Some of these guys can't be that sick because you should see some of the energy some sore sports put into trying to "find me out" or slander me, viciously. All of that time wasted. Their loss. They just cause more people to look me up, and find the protocol.

My point is, it works if you work it. Sorry about the Covid my man. Things have been a little rough on my end too. And about the whole product thing. I ended up going out of state for a few weeks as those orders came in. They just sat there. It's for this reason that we set it up so that you guys could just use the banner on the top of the forum to purchase direct from Iconic. Growing pains.

I wasn't aware that there was any doctor who had success treating PFS. Good luck with it.