Ultra Hard - suppression question

[xxaleksi]

EDIT: This was originally a question about the risk of suppression from DHT prohormones, but I've decided to turn this into somewhat of a log instead. Basically my thoughts while running this new product.

I'm running Ultra Hard 5 pumps per day right now and loving life. Tomorrow will be two weeks on. Feel completely recovered! Just hoping it sticks after cycle cuz last time it didn't unfortunately. Love the euphoria on this stuff! I have days now where I feel even better than pre PFS. Just getting a bit impatient as November will be two years since i crashed and I wanna get this crap over with asap.

My current plan is to run the Ultra Hard for 4-6 weeks, cycle herbs for 2-3 months, and then run an Ultra Hard/Alpha Four stack...so Andro/Epi + 4-DHEA. That is unless someone experienced with cycling thinks it's a bad idea for some reason. The reason I want to try 4-dhea stacked is because I seem to have low E symptoms even on the herbs. Aching joints mostly. So I'm thinking perhaps my estrogen is low and raising it a bit could benefit and perhaps even push me out of PFS like it did Maxout with the R-Andro/4-Andro stack.

Let's go!

[xxaleksi]

So I found this post by entropy:

"Doesn't sound like a problem. I know cd ran androhard v3 at 4caps a day for something like 16 weeks and that works out about 800mg of epi/androsterone. 5 caps of ultra stano is 750mg right? Might get some over stimulation I guess?"

Think I'll be fine... CD said he got no suppression from running this for 16 weeks. And Ultra Hard is only 500mg per day combined epiandro/androsterone.

I'm gonna make a full post on this thread about my experience with the cycle once it's done... like I said I feel completely recovered at the moment but we'll see if it sticks. I've also had the insomnia Maxout mentioned as a side effect, but it comes and goes... some nights it's hard to fall asleep and I wake up once or twice during the night, and some nights I sleep like a rock. Strange.

[petty3112]

What does suppression feel like? How do you know when it starts happening?

[Karlucchi]

I always get a little bit suppressed towards the end of my cycles and then recover pretty quickly with the herbs. I can tell because my balls get smaller and libido drops off. With the Ultra Hard it hasn't happened nearly as much and as soon as it did with Super R Andro. Probably because the dose is lower than what I was taking before. Either way, I don't think its an issue.

[xxaleksi]

What does suppression feel like? How do you know when it starts happening?

Never experienced it myself but from what I've seen it's usually ball shrinkage, loss of libido and energy, moodiness etc. low T symptoms.

- - - Updated - - -


I always get a little bit suppressed towards the end of my cycles and then recover pretty quickly with the herbs. I can tell because my balls get smaller and libido drops off. With the Ultra Hard it hasn't happened nearly as much and as soon as it did with Super R Andro. Probably because the dose is lower than what I was taking before. Either way, I don't think its an issue.

Thanks for the reply. I've no ball shrinkage but I'm gonna keep an eye on it. My libido's very high too, so I don't think I'm being majorly suppressed right now. Yeah if CD ran AHv3 for 16 weeks at 800mg/day then I doubt suppression is a big deal with DHT compounds. Just don't wanna get cocky and then pay the price later lol

[Cooper]

I'm running Ultra Hard 5 pumps per day right now and loving life. Tomorrow will be two weeks on. Feel completely recovered! Just hoping it sticks after cycle cuz last time it didn't unfortunately. Love the euphoria on this stuff! However at the back of my mind i keep worrying that i might get suppressed. Now normally I don't think about it at all but this time it's a bit different.

I ran MG Andro Hard for a bit under six weeks in May-June, and then went back to herb cycling. Then around two weeks later I got impatient and wanted to try oral epiandro to see how it felt. Ran it at 400mg/day for 10 days and then quit cuz all it did was deepen my voice and make me fatigued. I then did herb cycling for a bit over a month before jumping on Ultra Hard. Using the epi andro during this period was a bit stupid i know but i'm just getting a bit impatient as i'm having days where i'm even better than pre pfs but have a few lingering symptoms. Wanna get this crap over with asap.

I normally do 8 weeks of PCT after cycles but I figured trying the epi for 10 days wouldn't hurt as DHT prohormones aren't that suppressive. Now that I'm on Ultra Hard though I keep worrying that I might get suppressed because I tried the epi during my 8 week PCT and therefore didn't take 8 weeks off all ph's like you're supposed to.

So yeah my question is can I safely run the Ultra for 4-6 weeks, or should I hop off, rotate herbs for a few months and go again? I started the Ultra two months after stopping the MG AH, but I did have the 10-day period of cycling epi andro in there. Would be a shame if I had to drop the Ultra as I really love how it makes me feel but also don't wanna get suppressed lol. I know people do 12 week or 16 week cycles w/o issues which puts my mind at ease but still need confirmation

My current plan is to run the Ultra Hard for 4-6 weeks, cycle herbs for 2-3 months, and then run an Ultra Hard/Alpha Four stack...so Andro/Epi + 4-DHEA. That is unless someone experienced with cycling like Maxout or CD etc. thinks I should just hop off my current cycle just in case.

I think I'm experiencing low estrogen still as I often get achy joints which I saw English had and he had low e2... 4 andro should help

Hi bro, im glad you feeling better. Can you go in details about your recovery? Did you have erect penis size loss, if so did it come back?
Did you experience numb orgasms and sensivity loss, did it come back 100%?
What about semen volume?

I just need some hope any additions would be fine. Thanks.

[xxaleksi]

Hi bro, im glad you feeling better. Can you go in details about your recovery? Did you have erect penis size loss, if so did it come back?
Did you experience numb orgasms and sensivity loss, did it come back 100%?
What about semen volume?

I just need some hope any additions would be fine. Thanks.

Hey man, first off I'm not fully recovered yet, although I feel fully recovered on this cycle and very close to it off cycle. I still have a few food intolerances and gut issues that I didn't have pre-PFS. I won't be posting a true recovery post until those are also dealt with.

Yes, I had size loss and yes, it's back now. I can't really say for sure when it came back as it was gradual. I'd guess it came back sometime between January and now, as I remember it being smaller in January...it's normal size now. I also had the sensitivity loss and numb orgasms, as well as the watery semen. Those are all back to normal now although every once in a while off cycle my dick will feel less sensitive. I also had the symptom where my glans would stay shrunken and pale despite the rest of my dick getting hard...that's gone now too.

My recovery has been so gradual that it's hard to pinpoint exactly when a specific symptom has improved or been cured.

[stopfin]

hey guys.. Im wondering that you always talk about suppression and low T symptoms. I had this symptoms although my T went up to about 1000mg/dl for about 5 months in a row while on tamoxifen. Now I quit because I can't handle the low estrogen sides anymore.. But despite the high T for so long never ever experienced relief of the low T symptoms. don't have a clue what's this PFS mess is all about

[Karlucchi]

Hey man, first off I'm not fully recovered yet, although I feel fully recovered on this cycle and very close to it off cycle. I still have a few food intolerances and gut issues that I didn't have pre-PFS. I won't be posting a true recovery post until those are also dealt with.

Yes, I had size loss and yes, it's back now. I can't really say for sure when it came back as it was gradual. I'd guess it came back sometime between January and now, as I remember it being smaller in January...it's normal size now. I also had the sensitivity loss and numb orgasms, as well as the watery semen. Those are all back to normal now although every once in a while off cycle my dick will feel less sensitive. I also had the symptom where my glans would stay shrunken and pale despite the rest of my dick getting hard...that's gone now too.

My recovery has been so gradual that it's hard to pinpoint exactly when a specific symptom has improved or been cured.

Hey aleksi, something I found that works really well for my digestion and food intolerances is a product called ION Gut Health fyi. It's a little expensive but it keeps my shits nice and I don't get super bloated either. Just thought I'd give it a mention if you were interested in researching it.

[xxaleksi]

Hey aleksi, something I found that works really well for my digestion and food intolerances is a product called ION Gut Health fyi. It's a little expensive but it keeps my shits nice and I don't get super bloated either. Just thought I'd give it a mention if you were interested in researching it.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'm gonna take a look at it!

[xxaleksi]

Using this thread as somewhat of a log.

Still going well, although I think I might be experiencing low estrogen symptoms...just guessing though since i've never had my hormones tested during pfs.

Low libido, less penile sensitivity, fatigue, a bit of anxiety. Also achy joints but I also had this for a while before cycle so I'm thinking perhaps I've had low E for a while now and this cycle may have lowered it even further.

Next tuesday will be three weeks on so I'll keep going until four or six weeks depending on how I feel. Will run 4-dhea with this on next cycle to help with the low e.

[Turnover25]

Using this thread as somewhat of a log.

Still going well, although I think I might be experiencing low estrogen symptoms...just guessing though since i've never had my hormones tested during pfs.

Low libido, less penile sensitivity, fatigue, a bit of anxiety. Also achy joints but I also had this for a while before cycle so I'm thinking perhaps I've had low E for a while now and this cycle may have lowered it even further.

Next tuesday will be three weeks on so I'll keep going until four or six weeks depending on how I feel. Will run 4-dhea with this on next cycle to help with the low e.

Pretty sure I’m dealing with either low E or suppression as well. It’s not really a big deal but I have some fatigue, low libido, a little trouble sleeping also. I’m guessing it’ll get better with the following weeks.

[xxaleksi]

Pretty sure I’m dealing with either low E or suppression as well. It’s not really a big deal but I have some fatigue, low libido, a little trouble sleeping also. I’m guessing it’ll get better with the following weeks.

Yeah sounds like low E to me. It should improve within a few weeks of stopping the cycle.

[xxaleksi]

Got sick the last couple days... not Covid thankfully but still sucks. Good sign for pfs though as I've been sick twice in the past three months while last year when I was worse off I only got sick once during the whole year.

Gonna be three weeks on cycle tomorrow. I think I'll go for 5-6. Excited to see what improvements I get after stopping this Ultra Hard run. Remaining PFS sides for me (off cycle) are:

-fluctuating libido
-dick sometimes not as sensitive as it should be (back to normal like 70% of the time I'd say)
-not nearly as driven in life as i used to be
-slight concentration issues at times
-some food intolerances (been drinking lots of bone broth for this, seems to be helping)

Other than those I'm g2g. Which is saying a lot as I had the worst of the worst neurological sides when I crashed. I wanna get to 100% as fast as possible though. Hopefully this cycle pushes me to full recovery. I doubt it though as I seemed to have low E symptoms even on the herbs so perhaps I'll need the Andro/4-Andro stack to reach the finish line. Already ordered the products and plan on cycling in December/early January. If I'm still not recovered after that I'll probably run a proper cycle of Androvar like Bizzbee did and perhaps even stack it with 4-Andro.

[xxaleksi]

Tuesday will be four weeks on. I've been doing six pumps per day for a while, and feel a bit run down. Joints ache, fatigue, a bit of anxiety. Still get some euphoria here and there though. Will reduce dose to 4 pumps per day and continue until 5/6 weeks.

Interestingly the insomnia I had seems to be gone.

[xxaleksi]

4-5 pumps per day seems to be the sweet spot for me. Six was making me jittery and anxious. Those are now gone. 1-2 weeks to go! Might continue until six weeks depending on how I feel at the five week mark.

Also got a big tub of Liftmode Trib for my upcoming PCT.

[donmoon]

hey man

pfs victim of a few years here, ED my main symtom

5 days on ultrahard now... first 4 days were good, woke up with morning wood...but big step back today and back to almost complete impotence

Did you experience this type of fluctuation too?

Presumably I should keep going

thanks

[LetsGo]

hey man

pfs victim of a few years here, ED my main symtom

5 days on ultrahard now... first 4 days were good, woke up with morning wood...but big step back today and back to almost complete impotence

Did you experience this type of fluctuation too?

Presumably I should keep going

thanks

The UltraHard won’t cure you by itself, it’s part of a whole program that I would suggest you follow. The protocol is on Total Male Optimization (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com)

[xxaleksi]

The UltraHard won’t cure you by itself, it’s part of a whole program that I would suggest you follow. The protocol is on Total Male Optimization (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com)
Yeah this^^

Also an update to my cycle- I'm ending it today at the six week mark. I really enjoyed it. My experience was that I had less euphoria on it and less "mental benefits" of the increased DHT compared to musclegelz AH, but better physical benefits like muscle hardness, strength etc. Solid product. Negatives were insomnia the first few weeks, and anxiety/agitation at higher dosages.

Now it's time for PCT, and afterwards will run a ultra hard/alpha four stack. Can't wait.

[Samsemilia]

I can relate to the insomnia the prohormes seem to cause. I want to ask you something if you don't mind. How is Androhard comparing to the other Phs I remember you also took it in the past? What was the highest dosage you went up on cyle? Can you elaborate on "If I'm still not recovered after that I'll probably run a proper cycle of Androvar like Bizzbee did". Can't seem to find Androvar anymore online, did you remember how high he went up on this cyle?
Thanks by the way to you and maxout for the recommendation of tt oasis clay, best product I tried ever.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the log!

You can see why this is now the "go to" prohormone for the regimen. It's the best one since PP....that's saying something for sure.

It is strong enough to lower estrogen to the point of getting low E sides, most definitely.

Your plan is a solid one. As you had mentioned, you can either add in the 4 for increased Estrogen or simply lower the dose of UH to three pumps per day or less.

Keep it up man. Now is when it is real easy to get discouraged because you're so close, you can feel it! Now is when you REALLY have to stick to your guns to see it through.

You'll be making a recovery post sooner then later, so that's something to be very excited about.

Great job!

[donmoon]

The UltraHard won’t cure you by itself, it’s part of a whole program that I would suggest you follow. The protocol is on Total Male Optimization (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com)

yes, i am

eating totally paleo
heavy weights x5 per week / cardio 2x
cold shower every morning etc
Preceded this cycle with 4 weeks of cycling 7 of the herbs on the list

still seem to have massive variations in symptoms, very frustrating

[xxaleksi]

Thanks for the log!

You can see why this is now the "go to" prohormone for the regimen. It's the best one since PP....that's saying something for sure.

It is strong enough to lower estrogen to the point of getting low E sides, most definitely.

Your plan is a solid one. As you had mentioned, you can either add in the 4 for increased Estrogen or simply lower the dose of UH to three pumps per day or less.

Keep it up man. Now is when it is real easy to get discouraged because you're so close, you can feel it! Now is when you REALLY have to stick to your guns to see it through.

You'll be making a recovery post sooner then later, so that's something to be very excited about.

Great job!

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Have you got a chance to run it yet? Maxout said it was the best DHT PH he'd ever tried, which is what prompted me to try it out.

The 4-DHEA should take things to the next level for sure. Already got two bottles sitting here, lol. Really excited for the run, it'll be my first time running the compound.

Yeah, the last part of recovery seems really frustrating, but I'm just sticking to the regimen and waiting it out. It's routine anyway and will most likely be routine for the rest of my life, besides alcohol and cheat meals here and there, lol.

[xxaleksi]

I can relate to the insomnia the prohormes seem to cause. I want to ask you something if you don't mind. How is Androhard comparing to the other Phs I remember you also took it in the past? What was the highest dosage you went up on cyle? Can you elaborate on "If I'm still not recovered after that I'll probably run a proper cycle of Androvar like Bizzbee did". Can't seem to find Androvar anymore online, did you remember how high he went up on this cyle?
Thanks by the way to you and maxout for the recommendation of tt oasis clay, best product I tried ever.
Androhard had better mental benefits compared to Ultra Hard IMO. It's just a shame their new batch they made in September 2019 is much, much weaker than the original stuff. I ran it at 8 pumps per day and up to 12 pumps per day.

I bought my Androvar from strong supplement shop. It's 100% epiandrosterone unlike Ultra Hard & Andro Hard which are both a blend of androsterone & epiandrosterone. Bizzbee ran it at 400mg per day I believe, and it was his last cycle before recovering.

And yeah the Oasis clay is great stuff. Feels better than any synthetic stuff I've ever used and it's all natural!

[Cdsnuts]

still seem to have massive variations in symptoms, very frustrating

I see you're new. Welcome. When did you start the protocol?

[donmoon]

hey... unfortunately been suffering from pfs for c. 4 years, tried all the usual stuff clomid etc...only thing I found helpful was tongkat and trib. My worst symptoms are sexual. At my wits end and have spent $$$$$ on various medical specialists to no avail

Stumbled on this website so thought id give the protocol a try, have totally cleaned up diet about 6 weeks ago. Mixing up crossfit and heavy weights. At least some exercise every day. Picked 7 of the herbs (incl trib and tongkat ali) and cycled for 4/5 weeks before starting androhard last week

4 days of continuous wood followed by total impotence today...heartbreaking

[Cdsnuts]

hey... unfortunately been suffering from pfs for c. 4 years, tried all the usual stuff clomid etc...only thing I found helpful was tongkat and trib. My worst symptoms are sexual. At my wits end and have spent $$$$$ on various medical specialists to no avail

Stumbled on this website so thought id give the protocol a try, have totally cleaned up diet about 6 weeks ago. Mixing up crossfit and heavy weights. At least some exercise every day. Picked 7 of the herbs (incl trib and tongkat ali) and cycled for 4/5 weeks before starting androhard last week

4 days of continuous wood followed by total impotence today...heartbreaking

Okay.

First of all, you have to read ALL the stickies first. Then you need to read the website. Then, if you still have questions, you can ask them here by starting a thread of your own.

But at a quick glance, I can tell you're not on the right path already. Do these things I mentioned and then comeback with your own thread. We'll go from there.

[Samsemilia]

Great thanks for the answer. Very helpful. Did you tried Super Randro by Iml? If so how does it compare?
It noticeable leans me out, I would guess I need some cycles to get back to the old shredded me.
You must be shredded by now is that true?

[alphacfi]

Androhard had better mental benefits compared to Ultra Hard IMO. It's just a shame their new batch they made in September 2019 is much, much weaker than the original stuff. I ran it at 8 pumps per day and up to 12 pumps per day.

I bought my Androvar from strong supplement shop. It's 100% epiandrosterone unlike Ultra Hard & Andro Hard which are both a blend of androsterone & epiandrosterone. Bizzbee ran it at 400mg per day I believe, and it was his last cycle before recovering.

And yeah the Oasis clay is great stuff. Feels better than any synthetic stuff I've ever used and it's all natural!

That sucks it doesnt have the mental benefits. You guys were getting my hopes up with all of this euphoria talk lol. I honestly havent had any noticeable "feelings" on any of my 4 andro cycles. Although I believe my baselines did improve slightly afterwards. If i feel any thing at all on my upcoming Ultrahard run itll be a first for me.

[Cdsnuts]

That sucks it doesnt have the mental benefits. You guys were getting my hopes up with all of this euphoria talk lol. I honestly havent had any noticeable "feelings" on any of my 4 andro cycles. Although I believe my baselines did improve slightly afterwards. If i feel any thing at all on my upcoming Ultrahard run itll be a first for me.

I absolutely hated epi alone. Couldn't tolerate it worth a shit. Primordial came out with AHV2 which was all epi, and man did that suck. Androsterone as a standalone is much better then stand alone epi, imo. The blend is where it's at for me. Obviously this is different for everyone based on genetics. I know guys that LOVE epi alone.

[xxaleksi]

That sucks it doesnt have the mental benefits. You guys were getting my hopes up with all of this euphoria talk lol. I honestly havent had any noticeable "feelings" on any of my 4 andro cycles. Although I believe my baselines did improve slightly afterwards. If i feel any thing at all on my upcoming Ultrahard run itll be a first for me.

The UH still does have great mental benefits. Just not AS great as the andro hard. With the andro hard I was feeling euphoric almost all day everyday, while on the Ultra Hard the euphoria would only come on randomly throughout the day, not all the time like the AH. It's still a great product man.

[xxaleksi]

Great thanks for the answer. Very helpful. Did you tried Super Randro by Iml? If so how does it compare?
It noticeable leans me out, I would guess I need some cycles to get back to the old shredded me.
You must be shredded by now is that true?
Never used R-Andro, it was already mostly sold out when I joined the forum. And yeah, I'm pretty lean, can see my abs etc. Not completely shredded though, I love my afternoon carbs too much haha.

[stopfin]

Yeah this^^

Also an update to my cycle- I'm ending it today at the six week mark. I really enjoyed it. My experience was that I had less euphoria on it and less "mental benefits" of the increased DHT compared to musclegelz AH, but better physical benefits like muscle hardness, strength etc. Solid product. Negatives were insomnia the first few weeks, and anxiety/agitation at higher dosages.

Now it's time for PCT, and afterwards will run a ultra hard/alpha four stack. Can't wait.


sorry to ask, what's an alpha four stack? which product?

[xxaleksi]

sorry to ask, what's an alpha four stack? which product?
Ultra Hard & Alpha Four combo. Alpha Four from iconic formulations has 4-andro and androsterone in it.

[alphacfi]

The UH still does have great mental benefits. Just not AS great as the andro hard. With the andro hard I was feeling euphoric almost all day everyday, while on the Ultra Hard the euphoria would only come on randomly throughout the day, not all the time like the AH. It's still a great product man.

Alright cool well I got a couple bottles and will be starting this weekeend I think. Hopefully it does some good work!

[TubZy]

I can relate to the insomnia the prohormes seem to cause. I want to ask you something if you don't mind. How is Androhard comparing to the other Phs I remember you also took it in the past? What was the highest dosage you went up on cyle? Can you elaborate on "If I'm still not recovered after that I'll probably run a proper cycle of Androvar like Bizzbee did". Can't seem to find Androvar anymore online, did you remember how high he went up on this cyle?
Thanks by the way to you and maxout for the recommendation of tt oasis clay, best product I tried ever.

The closest I found is Anabolic Trinity if you are looking for an oral blend on strong supplement shop. I don't know if Rob sells it on his site though.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Have you got a chance to run it yet? Maxout said it was the best DHT PH he'd ever tried, which is what prompted me to try it out.

The 4-DHEA should take things to the next level for sure. Already got two bottles sitting here, lol. Really excited for the run, it'll be my first time running the compound.

Yeah, the last part of recovery seems really frustrating, but I'm just sticking to the regimen and waiting it out. It's routine anyway and will most likely be routine for the rest of my life, besides alcohol and cheat meals here and there, lol.

Maxout acutally reached out to me to tell me I should give them a run. He was very impressed as well. Good looking out on his part, as usual.

I just got done doing a short little test cycle of the UH and the 4. SOLID products. Strongest transdermals I've used, hands down. The four will turn you into an animal. At the higher doses, I felt like working a jack hammer all day rather then sit in an office....I wanted to move, do shit.

I was just messing around to test them out. I would run the UH at 4 pumps for a week, and then add in the 4 at 3 or four pumps and I'd play around with the doses.

Within a day or two of adding the four, my body would swell and I'd hold more water.....THAT quick. I would then drop it, and a day or so later I'd be shredded again. These products are no joke. It was like I could "turn them on a dime" if that makes any sense. Very, very good product.

[xxaleksi]

I absolutely hated epi alone. Couldn't tolerate it worth a shit. Primordial came out with AHV2 which was all epi, and man did that suck. Androsterone as a standalone is much better then stand alone epi, imo. The blend is where it's at for me. Obviously this is different for everyone based on genetics. I know guys that LOVE epi alone.
Yeah, I tried epi solo at one point and while it did give benefits of increased DHT like more strength and a deeper voice, it nuked my libido and the fatigue was pretty rough. No mental benefits like aggression either.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah, I tried epi solo at one point and while it did give benefits of increased DHT like more strength and a deeper voice, it nuked my libido and the fatigue was pretty rough. No mental benefits like aggression either.

Exactly how it was for me. NO libido whatsoever and just a sluggish foggy feeling. I didn't run it long enough to see what the physical benefits would have been because I wasn't willing to tolerate the sides.

[Mineiro-up]

xxaleksi let me ask you...How was your transition from Androhard to Ultrahard? meaning, was a big interval between the 2 cycles? Im asking 'cause I have an AH bottle here and I ordered some UH witch will take about 40 days to come (im not in a hurry) ... And ... My last cycle ended up about 3 months ago. Any advices? Im in doubt, start New AH cycle or wait until UH arrives.

[Cdsnuts]

xxaleksi let me ask you...How was your transition from Androhard to Ultrahard? meaning, was a big interval between the 2 cycles? Im asking 'cause I have an AH bottle here and I ordered some UH witch will take about 40 days to come (im not in a hurry) ... And ... My last cycle ended up about 3 months ago. Any advices? Im in doubt, start New AH cycle or wait until UH arrives.

Up to you. I would start the Ah cycle and then add in the UH at the end for a few weeks to see the difference in the two. No sense in waiting. You're going to be cycling for awhile so finishing up the AH and then using the UH later would be fine.