Path to get my life back

[Mistyballoon]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Hugh from Indonesia. 25 years old.

Sorry for my grammar and else since English is not my first language.

Took finasteride while back in 2016-2017ish, not continuously, on and off for the range of those 2 years. I stopped taking it as soon as I feel the side effects (ED) and decrease in Libido. I did not feel the depression and anxiety as part of the side effects since I was already depressed before taking the Finasteride (relationship problem). ED and Libido problem stays until now. I went to see a doctor and he told me to lose weight and exercise, and I did. He also ordered me to check my T from blood test, I got 478.2 ng/DL.

I just realized that the symptoms did not go away as I lost weight and changed my diet (calorie deficit) so I panicked and found out about PFS just last night.



I was depressed enough to get any informations possible, ended up in some youtube videos with comments mentioning this forum. So far very hopeful to get my life back seeing some members actually getting theirs.

I am planning to start the juice fast for 7 days next week and continue with all the routines provided. I am really in the middle of darkness right now and need some comforting, is there really a chance to heal from this situation? Does all the herbs & supplements will give me just another side effects just like Propecia?



Thank you so much and I am looking forward to any tips / informations regarding this PFS problem.

[Cdsnuts]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Hugh from Indonesia. 25 years old.

Sorry for my grammar and else since English is not my first language.

Took finasteride while back in 2016-2017ish, not continuously, on and off for the range of those 2 years. I stopped taking it as soon as I feel the side effects (ED) and decrease in Libido. I did not feel the depression and anxiety as part of the side effects since I was already depressed before taking the Finasteride (relationship problem). ED and Libido problem stays until now. I went to see a doctor and he told me to lose weight and exercise, and I did. He also ordered me to check my T from blood test, I got 478.2 ng/DL.

I just realized that the symptoms did not go away as I lost weight and changed my diet (calorie deficit) so I panicked and found out about PFS just last night.



I was depressed enough to get any informations possible, ended up in some youtube videos with comments mentioning this forum. So far very hopeful to get my life back seeing some members actually getting theirs.

I am planning to start the juice fast for 7 days next week and continue with all the routines provided. I am really in the middle of darkness right now and need some comforting, is there really a chance to heal from this situation? Does all the herbs & supplements will give me just another side effects just like Propecia?



Thank you so much and I am looking forward to any tips / informations regarding this PFS problem.

This place wouldn't be as successful as it's been if it only caused more side effects my man.

Everything you need to know is on TMO and this forum. EVERYTHING. Dive in and start researching/reading.

[Mistyballoon]

This place wouldn't be as successful as it's been if it only caused more side effects my man.

Everything you need to know is on TMO and this forum. EVERYTHING. Dive in and start researching/reading.

Thank you so much for consistently being positive and helping others in this dark times..

BTW I just woke up (its 8AM in Indonesia) and I got my morning wood (60% hard) for some reason...

I think its because I feel theres hope from reading this forum, and also I just told a friend about the problem..

Opening myself about the problem has been pretty good.. Monday I will start my juice feast for 7 days, is there any particular fruits to do / not to do?

For now I'll enjoy some food for my weekend..

[Mistyballoon]

Hi Everyone,

Took my first step onto the journey, started the juice feast today..

I have several questions, would appreciate any informations;

is there any protocol that I need to do on my Juice Feast? Herbs? Workouts?

Once I clear the juice feast (planning to do 7 days) do I need to recondition my body with eating only fruits & veggies, or should I jump right away to paleo?

I have 1 more question; Ive talked to an Andrologist regarding the problem, and told him this caused by finasteride, he seemed to understand what finasteride does and quite supportive. The only thing is he gave me a prescription (custom medicine) that contains : Sidenafil, Diazepam, Vit B1..

I have no problem with sidenafil and vit B1, but for Diazepam, I am kinda unsure because I looked at it on the Internet and found out that Diazepam would cause ED in a high dose. Told my doctor about it and he told me he gave me a very low does (0.75mg) to relax my muscle in my reproductive system.

Does anyone have experiences regarding Diazepam? Paid for my medicine but have not took it because I am afraid.

Thank you very much

Thank you..

[Mojo]

Diazepam is a benzodiazepine prescribed for anxiety disorders. Unless you are experiencing life inhibiting anxiety and relevant insomnia I would not take it. While diazepam (valium) is one of the more lenient benzodiazepines it is still dependency forming and addictive. Withdrawal from benzodiazepines is one of the more dangerous and difficult withdrawals out there. I’m not a doctor, but I’ve had my run with alprazolam (xanax). It helped me at times to relax and sleep, which helped me recover. But I had crushing anxiety.

Edit - 0.75mg of diazepam is an extremely low dose, to the point where I wonder if it even matters to take it. If you want to try it out I’d be very very surprised it even doing anything to you, positive or negative. It most definitely won’t hurt you. But just don’t take it for months.

[Mistyballoon]

Diazepam is a benzodiazepine prescribed for anxiety disorders. Unless you are experiencing life inhibiting anxiety and relevant insomnia I would not take it. While diazepam (valium) is one of the more lenient benzodiazepines it is still dependency forming and addictive. Withdrawal from benzodiazepines is one of the more dangerous and difficult withdrawals out there. I’m not a doctor, but I’ve had my run with alprazolam (xanax). It helped me at times to relax and sleep, which helped me recover. But I had crushing anxiety.

Edit - 0.75mg of diazepam is an extremely low dose, to the point where I wonder if it even matters to take it. If you want to try it out I’d be very very surprised it even doing anything to you, positive or negative. It most definitely won’t hurt you. But just don’t take it for months.

Thank you so much for your reply,

The doctor said the diazepam is for relaxing the muscle in my reproductive system, he did not say anything about the anxiety / insomnia. Personally I don't want to take it for my anxiety, I prefer do it naturally.. But if Diazepam could actually physically help the sexual symptoms, I'd be glad to try.

In case if I decided to try it, is it okay to take it while I'm doing my juice feast?

Thank you.

[Mojo]

Thank you so much for your reply,

The doctor said the diazepam is for relaxing the muscle in my reproductive system, he did not say anything about the anxiety / insomnia. Personally I don't want to take it for my anxiety, I prefer do it naturally.. But if Diazepam could actually physically help the sexual symptoms, I'd be glad to try.

In case if I decided to try it, is it okay to take it while I'm doing my juice feast?

Thank you.

Well, Diazepam is a nervous system depressant. It has a lengthy half-life but will still run out after a few days (which means btw that if you take it often it will build up in your system, so watch out with frequent use). The thing I don't really understand is why it's being offered as a medication for ED.
Once it's out of your system your nervous system will go back to it's original state. It's like taking a pain killer for a broken bone. Sure it will help the pain for a few hours but it won't accelerate you recovery. I personally don't have any problem with trying it but apart from maybe showing a clear connection of your ED problems to an overexcited nervous system there is really no point to it. I mean, the fact that he put viagra in the mix tells me this pill is supposed to be an on the spot solution for ED, not a long term thing.

The juice feast is meant as a period where you flush toxins from your system and go for a complete restart. I'd say it's probably not a big problem but it does kind of goes against the idea.

[Mistyballoon]

Well, Diazepam is a nervous system depressant. It has a lengthy half-life but will still run out after a few days (which means btw that if you take it often it will build up in your system, so watch out with frequent use). The thing I don't really understand is why it's being offered as a medication for ED.
Once it's out of your system your nervous system will go back to it's original state. It's like taking a pain killer for a broken bone. Sure it will help the pain for a few hours but it won't accelerate you recovery. I personally don't have any problem with trying it but apart from maybe showing a clear connection of your ED problems to an overexcited nervous system there is really no point to it. I mean, the fact that he put viagra in the mix tells me this pill is supposed to be an on the spot solution for ED, not a long term thing.

The juice feast is meant as a period where you flush toxins from your system and go for a complete restart. I'd say it's probably not a big problem but it does kind of goes against the idea.

Thank you so much, guess I will just stick into CD's protocol without those medications..

It means so much to get a reply from people like you who cares, especially in Indonesia, nobody seemed to understand about the problem.

How are your recovery progress if I may ask, do you have any tips, something that you change / add from the protocol? I just finished my 1st juice feast, surprisingly my body can handle it nicely..

Thank you..

[Mojo]

You are in a good community here! Only real tip I can give you is to trust in the system and to have a positive mindset about it. Listen to your body, if some supplement is giving you tummy aches or something, swap it out for a different one. Really believe you can recover and that you are doing a thing that is good for you. Also, don’t slack on the meditation. I’m pretty much following it 100% apart from some extra fish oil and lavender I take to help my sleep. Best of luck!

[Cdsnuts]

Hi Everyone,

Took my first step onto the journey, started the juice feast today..

I have several questions, would appreciate any informations;

is there any protocol that I need to do on my Juice Feast? Herbs? Workouts?

Once I clear the juice feast (planning to do 7 days) do I need to recondition my body with eating only fruits & veggies, or should I jump right away to paleo?

I have 1 more question; Ive talked to an Andrologist regarding the problem, and told him this caused by finasteride, he seemed to understand what finasteride does and quite supportive. The only thing is he gave me a prescription (custom medicine) that contains : Sidenafil, Diazepam, Vit B1..

I have no problem with sidenafil and vit B1, but for Diazepam, I am kinda unsure because I looked at it on the Internet and found out that Diazepam would cause ED in a high dose. Told my doctor about it and he told me he gave me a very low does (0.75mg) to relax my muscle in my reproductive system.

Does anyone have experiences regarding Diazepam? Paid for my medicine but have not took it because I am afraid.

Thank you very much

Thank you..

Very interesting custom med there. I can see why he went that route because those meds combined would certainly help, for short term, but in the long run, it's going to do nothing but set you back.

Follow the protocol EXACTLY as laid out.

[Mistyballoon]

Very interesting custom med there. I can see why he went that route because those meds combined would certainly help, for short term, but in the long run, it's going to do nothing but set you back.

Follow the protocol EXACTLY as laid out.

Yeah I've decided to not use the meds.. Thanks for the input..

2nd day on my juice feast, preparing my herbs to start the full protocol next week.. The only concern is that I cant find any lost empire herbs in Indonesia, it is okay to use different brands? I try to keep it simple to tablets / powders only..

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I've decided to not use the meds.. Thanks for the input..

2nd day on my juice feast, preparing my herbs to start the full protocol next week.. The only concern is that I cant find any lost empire herbs in Indonesia, it is okay to use different brands? I try to keep it simple to tablets / powders only..

You're not really going to have a choice if they won't ship to Indonesia. I choose LEH because they're the best quality herbs I've ever sourced. You're just going to have to do the best you can.

[Mistyballoon]

You're not really going to have a choice if they won't ship to Indonesia. I choose LEH because they're the best quality herbs I've ever sourced. You're just going to have to do the best you can.

Alright I'll just get whatever possible here..

Guys, is 'soy' allowed in paleo diet? I'm planning to get gluten free soy sauce, gluten free fish sauce for next week..

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You're not really going to have a choice if they won't ship to Indonesia. I choose LEH because they're the best quality herbs I've ever sourced. You're just going to have to do the best you can.

Alright I'll just get whatever possible here..

Guys, is 'soy' allowed in paleo diet? I'm planning to get gluten free soy sauce, gluten free fish sauce for next week..

[Cdsnuts]

Alright I'll just get whatever possible here..

Guys, is 'soy' allowed in paleo diet? I'm planning to get gluten free soy sauce, gluten free fish sauce for next week..

- - - Updated - - -



Alright I'll just get whatever possible here..

Guys, is 'soy' allowed in paleo diet? I'm planning to get gluten free soy sauce, gluten free fish sauce for next week..

Soy for the most part is big no no during this process and in life in general. It has no place in a mans diet. Way too high in estrogen and estrogen like phytochemicals.

In regards to soy sauce....well, this may sound hypocritical, but I DO use soy sauce when I'm eating sushi. It's not like I'm sitting back eating tons of tofu and I believe the way soy sauce is made the majority of the "bad" stuff is processed out.

[Mistyballoon]

Soy for the most part is big no no during this process and in life in general. It has no place in a mans diet. Way too high in estrogen and estrogen like phytochemicals.

In regards to soy sauce....well, this may sound hypocritical, but I DO use soy sauce when I'm eating sushi. It's not like I'm sitting back eating tons of tofu and I believe the way soy sauce is made the majority of the "bad" stuff is processed out.

Okay! I'll do the best to remove soy from my diet..

Today is my 5th day of Juice Feast, so far so good.. I just miss the taste of solid food by now..

I am currently buying the herbs for next week, could not find all 21 herbs listed, prolly I can get 10-ish herb..

For pine pollen, I've read people said that they did their herb rotation + pine pollen daily.. I am quite confused here, so all the 21 herbs listed on TMO should be taken once per day, but pine pollen is fine to be taken daily?

[Cdsnuts]

Okay! I'll do the best to remove soy from my diet..

Today is my 5th day of Juice Feast, so far so good.. I just miss the taste of solid food by now..

I am currently buying the herbs for next week, could not find all 21 herbs listed, prolly I can get 10-ish herb..

For pine pollen, I've read people said that they did their herb rotation + pine pollen daily.. I am quite confused here, so all the 21 herbs listed on TMO should be taken once per day, but pine pollen is fine to be taken daily?

Um.....no.

One herb per day, dosed twice usually. Next day, move on to taking the next herb, twice per day, so on and so forth. Pine pollen, depending on your tolerance to it, can be taken everyday if necessary.

[jacknap]

Um.....no.

One herb per day, dosed twice usually. Next day, move on to taking the next herb, twice per day, so on and so forth. Pine pollen, depending on your tolerance to it, can be taken everyday if necessary.

yes. try to follow cd to the letter as much as possible but also don't stress like if you can't get one herb etc. it's a holistic program the heals the body totally. in ways you'll end up stronger then you were before because most people don't even take care of their health to this level. in a way cds protocol is like surplus health so not only is it getting you thriving it's getting you healing.

[Mistyballoon]

yes. try to follow cd to the letter as much as possible but also don't stress like if you can't get one herb etc. it's a holistic program the heals the body totally. in ways you'll end up stronger then you were before because most people don't even take care of their health to this level. in a way cds protocol is like surplus health so not only is it getting you thriving it's getting you healing.

Thanks for the reply, yeah I'll try to stick to the protocol.. Just finished my juice feast, now easing up my gut with fruits and vegetable soup and will start paleo tomorrow..

[Cdsnuts]

yes. try to follow cd to the letter as much as possible but also don't stress like if you can't get one herb etc. it's a holistic program the heals the body totally. in ways you'll end up stronger then you were before because most people don't even take care of their health to this level. in a way cds protocol is like surplus health so not only is it getting you thriving it's getting you healing.

"Surplus Health" I like that saying.....lol. Also, it's something everyone could use. Like, health tucked away for a rainy day.

- - - Updated - - -


Thanks for the reply, yeah I'll try to stick to the protocol.. Just finished my juice feast, now easing up my gut with fruits and vegetable soup and will start paleo tomorrow..

How did the feast go Misty? How many quarts a day did you end up consuming and how long did you go for?

[Mistyballoon]

"Surplus Health" I like that saying.....lol. Also, it's something everyone could use. Like, health tucked away for a rainy day.

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How did the feast go Misty? How many quarts a day did you end up consuming and how long did you go for?

The feast went okay.. Seemed pretty hard at first but very doable.. When I had solid feces after putting only liquid into my body that felt good, I guess that cleansed my body.. No / so little improvement on the libido though, I guess that's just normal. I went for 7 days feast, drank about 4 quarts a day..

Currently on my 7th day of herb rotation, starting my weightlifting today, penis goes hard here and there, but with around 50% hardness..

Thanks CD!

[Cdsnuts]

The feast went okay.. Seemed pretty hard at first but very doable.. When I had solid feces after putting only liquid into my body that felt good, I guess that cleansed my body.. No / so little improvement on the libido though, I guess that's just normal. I went for 7 days feast, drank about 4 quarts a day..

Currently on my 7th day of herb rotation, starting my weightlifting today, penis goes hard here and there, but with around 50% hardness..

Thanks CD!

Yes, you're NOT going to get any type of libido boost during a cleanse as this is the last thing your body is "thinking about" during this period. That will come much later in the process. You can't get discouraged as this is a marathon, not a race. Just keep doing what is outlined for you and it will come to you in due time.

Read the recoveries for inspiration. Post here to keep us informed of your progress. That's what this forum is for.

[Mistyballoon]

Yes, you're NOT going to get any type of libido boost during a cleanse as this is the last thing your body is "thinking about" during this period. That will come much later in the process. You can't get discouraged as this is a marathon, not a race. Just keep doing what is outlined for you and it will come to you in due time.

Read the recoveries for inspiration. Post here to keep us informed of your progress. That's what this forum is for.

Yes thank you so much CD..

Currently I am in the middle of my 2nd herb cycle. I do weightlifting 3-4x a week, still on Paleo (with some cheat meals on weekend, but never gluten), daily vit D & pine pollen..

Few days ago I had morning wood for like 2-3 days in a row, some random erections throughout the day, but still around 30-40% hardness, but I guess thats improvement. Sadly that did not last until now, maybe that is just how the journey will be?

[Cdsnuts]

Yes thank you so much CD..

Currently I am in the middle of my 2nd herb cycle. I do weightlifting 3-4x a week, still on Paleo (with some cheat meals on weekend, but never gluten), daily vit D & pine pollen..

Few days ago I had morning wood for like 2-3 days in a row, some random erections throughout the day, but still around 30-40% hardness, but I guess thats improvement. Sadly that did not last until now, maybe that is just how the journey will be?

Always. Three steps forward, one or two steps back, the WHOLE time......get used to it.

[Mistyballoon]

Hi, been a while since I updated..

Still doing the protocol, can't say its 100% (totally my fault)

My daily routine:
- I dont eat breakfast everyday, but when I do its usually 3 fried eggs with veggies
- Daily herb rotation + 1 tsp pine pollen
- Gym (+- 3 times a week) - before or after lunch
- Lunch -> salad + protein (chicken / salmon)
- Dinner (white rice / gluten free pasta + protein + veggies)
- Daily herb rotation + 1tsp pine pollen
- Daily Vit D
- I rotate these stuffs ; bacopa, magnesium, l-theanine, lions mane, gotu kola
- Snack before sleep (another rice + leftover meal from dinner / dates)

I tried using bathmate but it's just did not work, I am afraid I am doing it wrong..

I got some strong MW occasionally which makes me very happy.. Also getting some random thoughts down there randomly during the day (30-40%)

Still don't have the reliable erections though, desperate to get it back since I don't really have any neurological / mental side effects other than thinking about the PFS itself..

If you guys have anything to say regarding my routine (something to add / something to remove) please do help me I am so willing to heal..

Thank you so much.

[Cdsnuts]

Hi, been a while since I updated..

Still doing the protocol, can't say its 100% (totally my fault)

My daily routine:
- I dont eat breakfast everyday, but when I do its usually 3 fried eggs with veggies
- Daily herb rotation + 1 tsp pine pollen
- Gym (+- 3 times a week) - before or after lunch
- Lunch -> salad + protein (chicken / salmon)
- Dinner (white rice / gluten free pasta + protein + veggies)
- Daily herb rotation + 1tsp pine pollen
- Daily Vit D
- I rotate these stuffs ; bacopa, magnesium, l-theanine, lions mane, gotu kola
- Snack before sleep (another rice + leftover meal from dinner / dates)

I tried using bathmate but it's just did not work, I am afraid I am doing it wrong..

I got some strong MW occasionally which makes me very happy.. Also getting some random thoughts down there randomly during the day (30-40%)

Still don't have the reliable erections though, desperate to get it back since I don't really have any neurological / mental side effects other than thinking about the PFS itself..

If you guys have anything to say regarding my routine (something to add / something to remove) please do help me I am so willing to heal..

Thank you so much.

Nothing really to say. Just do the "routine" as outlined on TMO and there will be no issues. If you're desperate to get yourself back, then you have to match what you're doing to TMO. That's it.

[Mistyballoon]

Nothing really to say. Just do the "routine" as outlined on TMO and there will be no issues. If you're desperate to get yourself back, then you have to match what you're doing to TMO. That's it.

Thanks for the reply, CD. Yeah I am willing to do the protocol, just checking if there's something that's missing or small details that would help like workout timing, additional supplements, etc.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the reply, CD. Yeah I am willing to do the protocol, just checking if there's something that's missing or small details that would help like workout timing, additional supplements, etc.

That all depends on how you have your life set up. In regards to backloading, the best time to workout is in the afternoon, but this isn't' a make or break scenario.....just the best timing wise for what backloading provides. Other then that, you fit it in where you can.

[Mistyballoon]

Hi All,

Been on the protocol for at least 3 months. Paleo, Weightlift, T Boost, Daily Vits, etc..

I gotta say I cheat sometimes on special events like a family wedding or so..

Definitely feel some improvements, morning wood come and go, so does libido too. I guess thats what we call upswing / downswing.

Erection is about 60-70% on good days, 30% on normal days..

I want to add the ultrahard into my regime, but to be honest I've never touch or even learn about it..

Going for another 1 week juice fast next week, am I good to go for UltraHard after that?

If theres a guideline on how to do the UltraHard I would be so pleased to know since theres no strict explanation about this @TMO.

Thanks guys..

[Zonz]

So UltraHard, from IconicForumlations, costs about $80 for a months-worth supply, (though theres a discount code in the sticky).

Your cycle is going to be anywhere from 28-42 days long, I would start with 28 days for your first cycle. You apply 3-5 pumps on your upper body, once a day in the morning, and let it dry for 5 minutes. That replaces your "t boosting herbs" but you still do everything else in the protocol. You still take the daily supplements and any sleep/brain supplements you take.

Your first cycle could look like this:

week 1 - 3 pumps/day

week 2 - 4 pumps/day

week 3 - 5 pumps/day

week 4 - 5 pumps/day

Then get back on the Herbs after week 4.

Your diet should have more carbohydrates on cycle because UH tanks your glucose, so you can eat gluten-free carbs even when it's not backloading time.

You might not feel ANYTHING on your first cycle, or maybe nothing until week 3, or something. Or you might feel amazing. But even if it's hell you have to finish the cycle because you're doing the right thing.

[Mistyballoon]

So UltraHard, from IconicForumlations, costs about $80 for a months-worth supply, (though theres a discount code in the sticky).

Your cycle is going to be anywhere from 28-42 days long, I would start with 28 days for your first cycle. You apply 3-5 pumps on your upper body, once a day in the morning, and let it dry for 5 minutes. That replaces your "t boosting herbs" but you still do everything else in the protocol. You still take the daily supplements and any sleep/brain supplements you take.

Your first cycle could look like this:

week 1 - 3 pumps/day

week 2 - 4 pumps/day

week 3 - 5 pumps/day

week 4 - 5 pumps/day

Then get back on the Herbs after week 4.

Your diet should have more carbohydrates on cycle because UH tanks your glucose, so you can eat gluten-free carbs even when it's not backloading time.

You might not feel ANYTHING on your first cycle, or maybe nothing until week 3, or something. Or you might feel amazing. But even if it's hell you have to finish the cycle because you're doing the right thing.

Thank you so much for the detailed response.. Cant find UltraHard anywhere in Indonesia so I gotta find a way to ship it from the states..

So the thing here:
https://iconicformulations.com/collections/topicals/products/ultra-hard

Cost 74.99$, thats for 1 month worth of supply? Does this ever expire, planning to get more than 1 since shipping from the states to here is kinda expensive..

[Cdsnuts]

So UltraHard, from IconicForumlations, costs about $80 for a months-worth supply, (though theres a discount code in the sticky).

Your cycle is going to be anywhere from 28-42 days long, I would start with 28 days for your first cycle. You apply 3-5 pumps on your upper body, once a day in the morning, and let it dry for 5 minutes. That replaces your "t boosting herbs" but you still do everything else in the protocol. You still take the daily supplements and any sleep/brain supplements you take.

Your first cycle could look like this:

week 1 - 3 pumps/day

week 2 - 4 pumps/day

week 3 - 5 pumps/day

week 4 - 5 pumps/day

Then get back on the Herbs after week 4.

Your diet should have more carbohydrates on cycle because UH tanks your glucose, so you can eat gluten-free carbs even when it's not backloading time.

You might not feel ANYTHING on your first cycle, or maybe nothing until week 3, or something. Or you might feel amazing. But even if it's hell you have to finish the cycle because you're doing the right thing.

Thank you Zonz. Great post.

[Cdsnuts]

Thank you so much for the detailed response.. Cant find UltraHard anywhere in Indonesia so I gotta find a way to ship it from the states..

So the thing here:
https://iconicformulations.com/collections/topicals/products/ultra-hard

Cost 74.99$, thats for 1 month worth of supply? Does this ever expire, planning to get more than 1 since shipping from the states to here is kinda expensive..

You're using the banner on the top of the forum page, correct? There is a discount there for you guys. And yes, you should get four of them if you can afford it. For some reason guys tell me they feel a big shift when they're fourth cycle comes around. Ultimately, get what you can afford. In the time frame you're going to be using them, you don't have to worry about their potency fading.

[Mistyballoon]

You're using the banner on the top of the forum page, correct? There is a discount there for you guys. And yes, you should get four of them if you can afford it. For some reason guys tell me they feel a big shift when they're fourth cycle comes around. Ultimately, get what you can afford. In the time frame you're going to be using them, you don't have to worry about their potency fading.

Thank you, CD.. Will get them and probably pine pollen from the states since from what I read pine pollen is one of the most important herbs in the protocol..

A little update: feeling way better on sexual sides, won't say I'm recovered or anything but definitely lots of improvement.. MW on most days, able to maintain an erection, better erection quality, etc..

Probably because recently I started training jiujitsu back (HIIT was lacking before), and I got a new puppy that occupied me (in a good way) so I dont think about PFS as much..

Hope this helps.. Coming from asian guy that lives in a 3rd world country..

[Cdsnuts]

Thank you, CD.. Will get them and probably pine pollen from the states since from what I read pine pollen is one of the most important herbs in the protocol..

A little update: feeling way better on sexual sides, won't say I'm recovered or anything but definitely lots of improvement.. MW on most days, able to maintain an erection, better erection quality, etc..

Probably because recently I started training jiujitsu back (HIIT was lacking before), and I got a new puppy that occupied me (in a good way) so I dont think about PFS as much..

Hope this helps.. Coming from asian guy that lives in a 3rd world country..

I can help with international shipping if you're going to go the topical R andro route. PM me.