RoadToRecovery

[RoadToRecovery]

So basically I took accutane when i was 18yo for 1 week. It screwed up my whole digestion. Been forced to psychiatrists and mental health institutions
because of my parents. Im 23 now almost 24 in 1 month. So I basically had no time to recover from this mess. I've been diagnosed with gastroparesis tested negative for
h pylori. Betaine hcl doesn't work. And im full after a few bites. Im lucky to get in 1500 calories a day and have no energy to do stuff.

So my symptoms are: No libido, numb genitals, difficulty urinating, eye floaters, mental side effects like depression(although i think these mainly come from other people around
my thinking im mentally ill, tinittus, watery semen, reacting to every food, very bad digestion, no appetite. For some reason i do not have brain fog anymore. Although im not able
to concentrate at all

After reading this site for quite a while I decided to start with pine pollen. However after 1 week of usage I got skin rashes, swollen hands and a lot of other allergic
symptoms from it including very bad bloating basically everything I eat makes me bloat. So i had to stop it.

I have no time to do a water fast. In the current situation im in. I did 1 before 5 years ago but no succes my digestive symptoms came back after 3 days. However I want to try and start with a 7 day juice feast.
Imgur: The magic of the Internet (https://imgur.com/a/BQtxYD2) any way to add more calories to my juice feast? im already really underweight so I can not lose anymore calories.

I think a 7 day juice feast would a good way to start. Any tips how to continue from there? I've already tried lots of diets for my gastroparesis lack of stomach acid however no fix found yet.

Not to forget I also tried multiple fmt transplants. And they did not manage to fix my digestion.

[Cdsnuts]

So basically I took accutane when i was 18yo for 1 week. It screwed up my whole digestion. Been forced to psychiatrists and mental health institutions
because of my parents. Im 23 now almost 24 in 1 month. So I basically had no time to recover from this mess. I've been diagnosed with gastroparesis tested negative for
h pylori. Betaine hcl doesn't work. And im full after a few bites. Im lucky to get in 1500 calories a day and have no energy to do stuff.

So my symptoms are: No libido, numb genitals, difficulty urinating, eye floaters, mental side effects like depression(although i think these mainly come from other people around
my thinking im mentally ill, tinittus, watery semen, reacting to every food, very bad digestion, no appetite. For some reason i do not have brain fog anymore. Although im not able
to concentrate at all

After reading this site for quite a while I decided to start with pine pollen. However after 1 week of usage I got skin rashes, swollen hands and a lot of other allergic
symptoms from it including very bad bloating basically everything I eat makes me bloat. So i had to stop it.

I have no time to do a water fast. In the current situation im in. I did 1 before 5 years ago but no succes my digestive symptoms came back after 3 days. However I want to try and start with a 7 day juice feast.
Imgur: The magic of the Internet (https://imgur.com/a/BQtxYD2) any way to add more calories to my juice feast? im already really underweight so I can not lose anymore calories.

I think a 7 day juice feast would a good way to start. Any tips how to continue from there? I've already tried lots of diets for my gastroparesis lack of stomach acid however no fix found yet.

Not to forget I also tried multiple fmt transplants. And they did not manage to fix my digestion.

How long was your last water fast?

Regarding the juice feast, it's called a "feast" for a reason. You simply make enough calorie rich juices until you hit your caloric target. Most guys can get in 2000-2500 calories with 4-6 quarts of juice, DAILY. Just like outlined on the website.

[RoadToRecovery]

How long was your last water fast?

Regarding the juice feast, it's called a "feast" for a reason. You simply make enough calorie rich juices until you hit your caloric target. Most guys can get in 2000-2500 calories with 4-6 quarts of juice, DAILY. Just like outlined on the website.

My last and only water fast was 12 days 6 years ago when it all started. But like i said gut issues came back after 5 days. Ok im going to start a 1 week juice feast next monday and make it longer shorter depending how my body reacts to it.

About rotating the herbs do you have any substitute for pine pollen? As i've been reading you have to rotate all herbs and take pine pollen daily. But it turns out i have a severe allergy to pine pollen. And is making me very sick and my doctor confirmed this. So im not able to take pine pollen daily.

Also do you have any possible explanation for my gastroparesis i can not seem to find the issue.

[Cdsnuts]

My last and only water fast was 12 days 6 years ago when it all started. But like i said gut issues came back after 5 days. Ok im going to start a 1 week juice feast next monday and make it longer shorter depending how my body reacts to it.

About rotating the herbs do you have any substitute for pine pollen? As i've been reading you have to rotate all herbs and take pine pollen daily. But it turns out i have a severe allergy to pine pollen. And is making me very sick and my doctor confirmed this. So im not able to take pine pollen daily.

Also do you have any possible explanation for my gastroparesis i can not seem to find the issue.

You don't have to take Pine Pollen daily. You COULD if you needed to or wanted to, but seeing as you're allergic (some guys are) just swap it out with another herb. There are plenty to choose from.

[RoadToRecovery]

One of my weird symptoms i've developed after using accutane is that i have problems falling asleep. On accutane i fell asleep but instantly woke up again. But my eyes were still closed and i could not move my body. It was a really scary experience.
I wonder what i causing this.

Now when i am really tired and close my eyes i feel like falling asleep but instead i get this weird shock and instantly wake up again.
Or sleep very light the whole night with lots of negative thoughts. The only thing that seems to help is sleep medication. Are there any good sleeping herbs i can take instead of the sleep medication? I've already stopped the sleep medication so don't worry.

Also started experimenting with some herbs. Regarding the dosage do you follow the instructions on the back. Or do you up the dose until you hit a tolerance? Tried a juice feast but had to stop after 2.5 days. Going to try a longer juice fast in the future.

[Cdsnuts]

One of my weird symptoms i've developed after using accutane is that i have problems falling asleep. On accutane i fell asleep but instantly woke up again. But my eyes were still closed and i could not move my body. It was a really scary experience.
I wonder what i causing this.

Now when i am really tired and close my eyes i feel like falling asleep but instead i get this weird shock and instantly wake up again.
Or sleep very light the whole night with lots of negative thoughts. The only thing that seems to help is sleep medication. Are there any good sleeping herbs i can take instead of the sleep medication? I've already stopped the sleep medication so don't worry.

Also started experimenting with some herbs. Regarding the dosage do you follow the instructions on the back. Or do you up the dose until you hit a tolerance? Tried a juice feast but had to stop after 2.5 days. Going to try a longer juice fast in the future.

Sleep is usually one of the biggest issues for alot of guys. Herb wise, you should get Ziziphus and Albizia. Start by reading this: Sleep | Total Male Optimization (https://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/sleep/)

[RoadToRecovery]

Sleep is usually one of the biggest issues for alot of guys. Herb wise, you should get Ziziphus and Albizia. Start by reading this: Sleep | Total Male Optimization (https://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/sleep/)

Thanks do i need to cycle between ziziphus and albizia every other day or can you take them daily. Are there also specific herbs that stimulate appetite?
Could not find anything about appetite stimulating herbs on google or this site.

Already doing breathing exercises before sleep(wim hof method). It definitely helps falling asleep. But the biggest issue is staying asleep once i've fallen asleep. And once i've waken up in the middle of the night it is almost impossible to fall back asleep.

[The whit wagon]

Thanks do i need to cycle between ziziphus and albizia every other day or can you take them daily. Are there also specific herbs that stimulate appetite?
Could not find anything about appetite stimulating herbs on google or this site.

Already doing breathing exercises before sleep(wim hof method). It definitely helps falling asleep. But the biggest issue is staying asleep once i've fallen asleep. And once i've waken up in the middle of the night it is almost impossible to fall back asleep.

You'll get the sleep improvements with time mate, unfortunately you're gonna have to stick to the protocol, ride it out and just have faith. Maybe try a long(er) water fast as CD mentioned that his issues resolved after it.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks do i need to cycle between ziziphus and albizia every other day or can you take them daily. Are there also specific herbs that stimulate appetite?
Could not find anything about appetite stimulating herbs on google or this site.

Already doing breathing exercises before sleep(wim hof method). It definitely helps falling asleep. But the biggest issue is staying asleep once i've fallen asleep. And once i've waken up in the middle of the night it is almost impossible to fall back asleep.

Have you tried doing the breathing when you wake up in the middle of the night?

And with these particular herbs, you don't need to rotate them as much as the T boosters. They work in different ways. If you wake up in the middle of the night, just try and do some more breathing and take another dose of sleep herbs. You'll most likely be able to get another couple hours that way.

[RoadToRecovery]

Had some personal issues which I had to deal with last months. Unfortunately this will mean I can not do a juice feast or water fast for atleast a year. Will this be an issue?
I could always do a juice feast or water fast after a year on the protocol. Or would this be the wrong approach?

Im also going to start 30g L- glutamine for a few months see if that helps anything with my gut.
Does anyone here have experience with L-glutamine?

I also figured out how to afford around 20 herbs so I can start herb cycling hopefully next week.
Will start taking creatine aswell since it seems to stimulate testosterone to dht conversion.

Since I do not react well to pine pollen powder. I was thinking about taking maca every day instead of pine pollen every day.
Or would it be worth trying pine pollen tincture instead.

[Cdsnuts]

Had some personal issues which I had to deal with last months. Unfortunately this will mean I can not do a juice feast or water fast for atleast a year. Will this be an issue?
I could always do a juice feast or water fast after a year on the protocol. Or would this be the wrong approach?

Im also going to start 30g L- glutamine for a few months see if that helps anything with my gut.
Does anyone here have experience with L-glutamine?

I also figured out how to afford around 20 herbs so I can start herb cycling hopefully next week.
Will start taking creatine aswell since it seems to stimulate testosterone to dht conversion.

Since I do not react well to pine pollen powder. I was thinking about taking maca every day instead of pine pollen every day.
Or would it be worth trying pine pollen tincture instead.

I wouldn't take Maca daily....why can't you take the PP?

The cleanse is a VERY important way to start the protocol. Why won't you be able to do it for a whole year?

You can start it without doing the cleanse, and it would benefit you, but NOT as much as it would cleansing FIRST.

It's never a bad thing to live healthfully and live the protocol regardless, and you could cleanse after a year, it's just not the BEST way to go about it.

[RoadToRecovery]

I can not take the pine pollen because I have a pine pollen allergy. I got severe skin rashes and swollen ankles and fingers. And it did not agree with my stomach.
Although I could definitely feel the effect from the pine pollen. Which other herb would you advice to take daily instead if maca isn't a good option.

I did a 2.5day juice feast 3 months ago and also did a 2.5 day water fast 5 months ago or so. 'Why won't you be able to do it for a whole year?'
Financial problems. Currently living in a home without a kitchen. And I do not know when im able to get a proper home with kitchen.

I know it is not the BEST way to go about it. But that is the max I can do as of right now. I hope you understand.

[Zonz]

A lot of people are allergic to pollen so I wouldn't take any more.

and I know a lot of people that take black maca root daily before workouts, but maybe because it's a valuable herb you don't want to build a tolerance to it.

[Cdsnuts]

I can not take the pine pollen because I have a pine pollen allergy. I got severe skin rashes and swollen ankles and fingers. And it did not agree with my stomach.
Although I could definitely feel the effect from the pine pollen. Which other herb would you advice to take daily instead if maca isn't a good option.

I did a 2.5day juice feast 3 months ago and also did a 2.5 day water fast 5 months ago or so. 'Why won't you be able to do it for a whole year?'
Financial problems. Currently living in a home without a kitchen. And I do not know when im able to get a proper home with kitchen.

I know it is not the BEST way to go about it. But that is the max I can do as of right now. I hope you understand.

Listen, it is what it is. I can only guide you in this journey and tell you what works and what doesn't work. We all know what needs to be done. It's just a matter of you DOING IT. That's it. You don't NEED to take any herb daily. There was a reason that pine pollen was the one that works best on a daily basis but it's not 100% necessary to take it daily. Don't get hung up on it. Do the protocol the best you can, just know that despite your circumstances, the results are based on staying true to it 100%.....results will reflect that. unfortunately pfs doesn't give a shit about what we have going on in our lives right now. You will ultimately get out of it what you put in. Period.

[RoadToRecovery]

I was planning on cycling between Passionflower extract, Albizia, Blue vervain, Ziziphus, Gotu kola, Lemon balm and Valerian root every other day before sleep.
And taking Glycine, gaba, melatonin and 200mg elemental chelated magnesium every day before sleep.

Also what are your thoughts on adding bulbine and fadogia to the herb cycling?

[Cdsnuts]

I was planning on cycling between Passionflower extract, Albizia, Blue vervain, Ziziphus, Gotu kola, Lemon balm and Valerian root every other day before sleep.
And taking Glycine, gaba, melatonin and 200mg elemental chelated magnesium every day before sleep.

Also what are your thoughts on adding bulbine and fadogia to the herb cycling?

My thoughts are the same as they always are. DO THE PROTOCOL AS OUTLINED. Do it for a couple of months. If at that point, you want to add those things in, then by all means, try them out. But before doing that make sure you are doing EVERYTHING that you are supposed to be doing and make sure you're doing it consistently.

I'm not saying this to you in particular, but it seems lately that we have alot of guys asking if they can add this or that or do this or that.....listen, the protocol was designed with alot of thought and experience. NOTHING needs to be added or taken away from it. It just has to be done AS OUTLINED for the desired results. Once you get to a place where you are doing this consistently for months, then you can add in one thing, see how it feels, etc. Other then that, guys....DO THE PROTOCOL.

[RoadToRecovery]

How do you guys deal with friends and family members who stopped hanging out with you. Or started excluding you since pfs. Or when you're trying to explain your condition they say it's all in your head etc. Or just get over it.
Im trying to distance myself from these people. But I would lie if I said it didn't hurt me.

[Zonz]

How do you guys deal with friends and family members who stopped hanging out with you. Or started excluding you since pfs. Or when you're trying to explain your condition they say it's all in your head etc. Or just get over it.
Im trying to distance myself from these people. But I would lie if I said it didn't hurt me.

Same thing happened with me. People stopped looking at me, no more smiles in my days. There really is no non-spiritual cope for it, aside from doing the protocol and knowing that one day you will return to normal.

[Queens1984]

How do you guys deal with friends and family members who stopped hanging out with you. Or started excluding you since pfs. Or when you're trying to explain your condition they say it's all in your head etc. Or just get over it.
Im trying to distance myself from these people. But I would lie if I said it didn't hurt me.

That’s the worst part. Forget losing your desire for the opposite Sex, nobody can understand your symptoms. They think it’s all in your head. It’s very LONELY. Thankful I came across drs that came down with this and CD’S recover plan. Just 1 day at a time brother.

[Cdsnuts]

How do you guys deal with friends and family members who stopped hanging out with you. Or started excluding you since pfs. Or when you're trying to explain your condition they say it's all in your head etc. Or just get over it.
Im trying to distance myself from these people. But I would lie if I said it didn't hurt me.

I was alone forever. It sucked. I was so fucked most of the time that I really had no choice but to be alone. It was too uncomfortable otherwise. That's what makes getting through to the other side that much fucking sweeter......it's really an unbelievable feeling that not only will you have a life.....you'll APPRECIATE it like never before....and...... you'll be a stud......win, win, win.

Keep grinding.

[RoadToRecovery]

I've managed to find time to do a water fast. Currently 1.5 days in. Experiencing severe bloating. Should I add electrolytes to my water. Im having a salt with added potassium and some magnesium powder. But im not sure if that would break my fast.

[Cdsnuts]

I've managed to find time to do a water fast. Currently 1.5 days in. Experiencing severe bloating. Should I add electrolytes to my water. Im having a salt with added potassium and some magnesium powder. But im not sure if that would break my fast.

No, no, no and no.

Water ONLY. THAT'S IT.

What you're doing is not fasting and can be dangerous. Taking mag. powder in a fasted state can bring on the runs which would dehydrate you and put you in harms way.

Please. Either do as instructed or don't post it here. Some thing goes wrong, that's on you. There is a REASON things are the way they are. Respect them, or don't. If you don't, leave.

[RoadToRecovery]

I was just asking. Haven't taken the salt or magnesium powder. Currently 3.5 days in. Feeling extremely bloating. But other than that im feeling okay.

[Mojo]

If you are concerned, visit a doctor please. There is a reason CD always recommends fasting under medical supervision.

[Cdsnuts]

I was just asking. Haven't taken the salt or magnesium powder. Currently 3.5 days in. Feeling extremely bloating. But other than that im feeling okay.

Looking back, I kind of snapped at you a bit, so my apologies for that. You wrote that you were having the salt and mag powder, that's what concerned me.

Ok...so no food and just water for 3.5 days? Are you still shitting?

[RoadToRecovery]

Looking back, I kind of snapped at you a bit, so my apologies for that. You wrote that you were having the salt and mag powder, that's what concerned me.

Ok...so no food and just water for 3.5 days? Are you still shitting?

Just water. No not shitting lol. Just really bad bloating for some reason. Other than that im fine.
No I never said i've taken the electrolytes. English isn't my native language. So i've probably phrased that in the wrong way.

- - - Updated - - -


If you are concerned, visit a doctor please. There is a reason CD always recommends fasting under medical supervision.

My Medical Doctor knows about my water fast. We've discussed what to do incase anything goes wrong.

[Cdsnuts]

Just water. No not shitting lol. Just really bad bloating for some reason. Other than that im fine.
No I never said i've taken the electrolytes. English isn't my native language. So i've probably phrased that in the wrong way.

- - - Updated - - -



My Medical Doctor knows about my water fast. We've discussed what to do incase anything goes wrong.

When was your last bowel movement?

And that's great that you have a doctor who is sympathetic to your cause.

[RoadToRecovery]

When was your last bowel movement?

And that's great that you have a doctor who is sympathetic to your cause.

Either 1 day before or the morning I started my water fast.

[Cdsnuts]

Either 1 day before or the morning I started my water fast.

Could be something trying to pass, or just normal empty stomach bloat. It should subside.

[RoadToRecovery]

And that's great that you have a doctor who is sympathetic to your cause.

I wish lol. Did you recently add mucana pruriens to your list on tmo. I made a list of what herbs to buy a while back. Copied all the herbs from tmo at the time.
But can not find it on there.

[Cdsnuts]

I wish lol. Did you recently add mucana pruriens to your list on tmo. I made a list of what herbs to buy a while back. Copied all the herbs from tmo at the time.
But can not find it on there.

Mucuna Pruriens | Total Male Optimization (https://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/testosterone-boosting-supplement-rotation/mucuna-pruriens/)

Nope. It's always been a staple for it's dopamine related effects. Not sure how you couldn't find it when it's on the website?

[RoadToRecovery]

Currently 9.5 days into my water fast I feel good other than being extremely bloated. I will probably go as long as my body is able to handle.

For the 2nd time now my order from LostEmpireherbs is being held by customs and lost. Are there any vendors out there with similair quality to Lostempireherbs.
I was thinking of trying Nootropics Depot. Does anyone in here have experience with Nootroopics Depot supplements?

[Maxout777]

Currently 9.5 days into my water fast I feel good other than being extremely bloated. I will probably go as long as my body is able to handle.

For the 2nd time now my order from LostEmpireherbs is being held by customs and lost. Are there any vendors out there with similair quality to Lostempireherbs.
I was thinking of trying Nootropics Depot. Does anyone in here have experience with Nootroopics Depot supplements?

I buy from them all of the time. High quality supps, good people too. The owner posts regularly on their subreddit.

[Karlucchi]

Currently 9.5 days into my water fast I feel good other than being extremely bloated. I will probably go as long as my body is able to handle.

For the 2nd time now my order from LostEmpireherbs is being held by customs and lost. Are there any vendors out there with similair quality to Lostempireherbs.
I was thinking of trying Nootropics Depot. Does anyone in here have experience with Nootroopics Depot supplements?

I agree Nootropics Depot are the shit. I go with them whenever I can

[RoadToRecovery]

Thanks for the replies guys i'll look into Nootropics Depot if I can't sort out my issue with LEH. Also found a decent European site that sells herbs.

13 days into my water fast now. I feel like I can go on atleast another week.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the replies guys i'll look into Nootropics Depot if I can't sort out my issue with LEH. Also found a decent European site that sells herbs.

13 days into my water fast now. I feel like I can go on atleast another week.

Nice! Just water, correct?

What do you do to pass the time? I ask because I know me, personally, when it came up on the two week mark, I was pretty much able to do nothing but lay around. Depends on the reserves you carry.

[RoadToRecovery]

Nice! Just water, correct?

What do you do to pass the time? I ask because I know me, personally, when it came up on the two week mark, I was pretty much able to do nothing but lay around. Depends on the reserves you carry.

Yeah I couldn't do much besides laying on bed and do stuff on my laptop. I did everything possible to pass the time lol it was horrible. Finished the 21 day fast today.
I look like a skeleton. And yes just water.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I couldn't do much besides laying on bed and do stuff on my laptop. I did everything possible to pass the time lol it was horrible. Finished the 21 day fast today.
I look like a skeleton. And yes just water.

That's a nice fast to be done by yourself. Congrats. After the fast is extremely important, so make sure you ease back into refeeding properly and don't over do it....real easy to do when you haven't eaten in three weeks.

[RoadToRecovery]

Yes I know I went wrong with refeeding last time. How long did you wait after your fast to start using supplements again.
My supplements from LEH finally went through customs. So I can start herb rotation anytime now.

[Cdsnuts]

Yes I know I went wrong with refeeding last time. How long did you wait after your fast to start using supplements again.
My supplements from LEH finally went through customs. So I can start herb rotation anytime now.

I would say you don't need to wait any longer then a few weeks during refeed.

[RoadToRecovery]

My dick is completely numb again. I feel like as when I crashed. From all the symptoms im experiencing numb dick got to be the worst possible.
I feel asexual. Did you also experience this after such a long water fast?

Im also completely emotionally numb. Nothing brings joy just extremely neutral/depressed.
I feel like im tripping right now. Im disconnected from everything.

Was downstairs with some family. I just observed their conversation and I saw humans talking to eachother laughing having fun. Enjoying life.
And I just sat there observing them as humans. As if I was not one of them.

Refeeding is going okay by the way. But this is by far one of the weirdest life experiences i've ever had. Only ever had such experiences after my original crash 6years ago.

[Cdsnuts]

My dick is completely numb again. I feel like as when I crashed. From all the symptoms im experiencing numb dick got to be the worst possible.
I feel asexual. Did you also experience this after such a long water fast?

Im also completely emotionally numb. Nothing brings joy just extremely neutral/depressed.
I feel like im tripping right now. Im disconnected from everything.

Was downstairs with some family. I just observed their conversation and I saw humans talking to eachother laughing having fun. Enjoying life.
And I just sat there observing them as humans. As if I was not one of them.

Refeeding is going okay by the way. But this is by far one of the weirdest life experiences i've ever had. Only ever had such experiences after my original crash 6years ago.

That's a solid fast you did. Stripped you down to the core. Your dick get's numb like that after an extended fast because your body doesn't need it at that time. This is what you wanted to happen. You got it all stirred up and your body is now going to start kicking it the fuck out. THIS is the spot you rebuild from. No one has libido during or immediately after a fast. So it's how you should be feeling regardless. NOW is when the real work starts.......time to start building.

[RoadToRecovery]

Update:

Was living at a family members house during the water fast. Unfortunately got kicked out of the house 1.5 weeks after refeeding. Found a new home in another city. All alone here now except my brother who supports me.
My family thinks im mentally ill after not eating for 21 days. They are not supportive at all. Could not properly refeed. A lot of mental stress and depression because of it.

Started herb cycling think im doing the herb cycling for 1 month now with 19 herbs. Don't notice any effect on pfs symptoms however I believe im probably worse if i stop taking the herbs. Usually I would be able to take 50mg of pregnenolone before noticing bad side effect since it was too much.
Now im able to take 150mg without noticing a these side effects at all.

Im in a very bad place right now. But then again this feels normal since I crashed when I was 18 years old. I feel like I can handle it better.
Trying to make the best of my situation. Luckily I had a lot of things pre planned for after the water fast. But this isn't what I expected to happen at all.

However I refuse to give up. I don't like giving up.

[Cdsnuts]

Update:

Was living at a family members house during the water fast. Unfortunately got kicked out of the house 1.5 weeks after refeeding. Found a new home in another city. All alone here now except my brother who supports me.
My family thinks im mentally ill after not eating for 21 days. They are not supportive at all. Could not properly refeed. A lot of mental stress and depression because of it.

Started herb cycling think im doing the herb cycling for 1 month now with 19 herbs. Don't notice any effect on pfs symptoms however I believe im probably worse if i stop taking the herbs. Usually I would be able to take 50mg of pregnenolone before noticing bad side effect since it was too much.
Now im able to take 150mg without noticing a these side effects at all.

Im in a very bad place right now. But then again this feels normal since I crashed when I was 18 years old. I feel like I can handle it better.
Trying to make the best of my situation. Luckily I had a lot of things pre planned for after the water fast. But this isn't what I expected to happen at all.

However I refuse to give up. I don't like giving up.

If you want to be well again, you can't.

[RoadToRecovery]

Found this post on reddit about how people who suffer from CFS have numb genitals sometimes. Does your genital area ever go temporarily numb? : cfs (https://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/comments/ndpz6o/does_your_genital_area_ever_go_temporarily_numb/)
But for most of them it seems temporarily. Figured it was worth sharing.

[RoadToRecovery]

What is the difference between Super R Andro & Super 4 Andro by Ironmag labs and Ultra hard by Iconic Formulations for your first prohormone cycle?
I see that not everyone on this forum is taking Ultra hard for their prohormone cycles. And some are even combining multiple different ones.

[delsolrob]

What is the difference between Super R Andro & Super 4 Andro by Ironmag labs and Ultra hard by Iconic Formulations for your first prohormone cycle?
I see that not everyone on this forum is taking Ultra hard for their prohormone cycles. And some are even combining multiple different ones.

I can only reply to this on a technical note:

Anderosterone (R-Andro) is a neuro steroid that also has the ability to convert to DHT...this hormone provides some great neurological benefits and also helps by converting to DHT without the need for 5AR.

Super 4 is 4-DHEA - this pro hormone has the ability to convert to actual testosterone, and also converts to estrogen (yes, sometimes you want that)...it can also convert to DHT via 5AR.

Ultra Hard contains Androsterone (R-Andro) and Epiandrosterone - Both of these compounds are quite similar but they each have very distinct nuances - They both are neuro steroids and pro hormones to DHT (via different pathways).

If you're curious about 4-DHEA, there's also Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations that contains 225mg 4-DHEA and 100mg Androsterone

For a quick cheat sheet on most of these ingredients:
What is the difference between DHEA 1-DHEA 4-DHEA R-DHEA and 7-DHEA? | androseries (https://androseries.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/what-is-the-difference-between-dhea-1-dhea-4-dhea-r-dhea-and-7-dhea/)

[Cdsnuts]

I can only reply to this on a technical note:

Anderosterone (R-Andro) is a neuro steroid that also has the ability to convert to DHT...this hormone provides some great neurological benefits and also helps by converting to DHT without the need for 5AR.

Super 4 is 4-DHEA - this pro hormone has the ability to convert to actual testosterone, and also converts to estrogen (yes, sometimes you want that)...it can also convert to DHT via 5AR.

Ultra Hard contains Androsterone (R-Andro) and Epiandrosterone - Both of these compounds are quite similar but they each have very distinct nuances - They both are neuro steroids and pro hormones to DHT (via different pathways).

If you're curious about 4-DHEA, there's also Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations that contains 225mg 4-DHEA and 100mg Androsterone

For a quick cheat sheet on most of these ingredients:
What is the difference between DHEA 1-DHEA 4-DHEA R-DHEA and 7-DHEA? | androseries (https://androseries.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/what-is-the-difference-between-dhea-1-dhea-4-dhea-r-dhea-and-7-dhea/)

Thank you Rob.

[Cdsnuts]

What is the difference between Super R Andro & Super 4 Andro by Ironmag labs and Ultra hard by Iconic Formulations for your first prohormone cycle?
I see that not everyone on this forum is taking Ultra hard for their prohormone cycles. And some are even combining multiple different ones.

For your purposes, you want to stick to the DHT prohormones because you want to work on regenerating your 5ar and giving the tissues that are starved of DHT a little break.

So the reason some guys get both is because some men, like me, are sensitive to epi's gaba antagonism. Sometimes it's too much because their neurosteroids are in the toilet. Androsterone is a gaba agonist, which calms you down. So you want to focus on Ultra hard type product.

You can either use Ultrahard as a standalone (which is what most do) and you can add extra androsterone and extra Test by using a pump or two of Alpha 4 with your cycle.

[RoadToRecovery]

Thank you both for the advice. I have gaba issues so it would probably best to take Alpha 4 with the cycle. How long would you recommend doing a cycle for?
4/6 or 8 weeks? I was also wondering if it would be beneficial to take creatine with the cycle or if it would be best to take creatine with the herb rotation protocol.

Also had a breakthrough for my sleeping issues. 900mg of gaba, 1g of melatonin, 500m of magnesium combined with a herb that promotes gaba makes me sleep a lot better. I will most likely add glycine powder to this later but currently out of money so this will have to do for a while.
Currently having: blue vervain, albizia, lemon balm, valerian root, gotu kola, ziziphus, and passionflower as gaba stimulating herbs. Are there any other useful gaba stimulating herbs out there that I could use?

I also do not seem to respond to any of the herbs in the herb rotation cycle in a sexual way. Still have 0 libido or sexual feelings/thoughts.

[Cdsnuts]

Thank you both for the advice. I have gaba issues so it would probably best to take Alpha 4 with the cycle. How long would you recommend doing a cycle for?
4/6 or 8 weeks? I was also wondering if it would be beneficial to take creatine with the cycle or if it would be best to take creatine with the herb rotation protocol.

Also had a breakthrough for my sleeping issues. 900mg of gaba, 1g of melatonin, 500m of magnesium combined with a herb that promotes gaba makes me sleep a lot better. I will most likely add glycine powder to this later but currently out of money so this will have to do for a while.
Currently having: blue vervain, albizia, lemon balm, valerian root, gotu kola, ziziphus, and passionflower as gaba stimulating herbs. Are there any other useful gaba stimulating herbs out there that I could use?

I also do not seem to respond to any of the herbs in the herb rotation cycle in a sexual way. Still have 0 libido or sexual feelings/thoughts.

Libido is gonna be the last thing that comes back, unfortunately, but this is common across the board for all of us. You gotta give the herbs time to work their magic. As your body becomes healthier and deficiencies become corrected, you will start to get "flashes" of libido. Health builds consistently over time, remember that.

Adding glycine to your current sleep stack will give it just the extra nudge you need. Do it.

[RoadToRecovery]

Ordered ultra hard and alpha 4. Been on the herb rotation for almost 2 months now is that enough to start my first cycle?

Also been reading on this forum to figure out for how long I should do my first cycle. But some do it for 4 weeks others for 6 and others for even 8 weeks.
How long should I do my first cycle for? Already asked this question last time but you didn't answer so gonna ask it again if you don't mind.

[Turnover25]

Ordered ultra hard and alpha 4. Been on the herb rotation for almost 2 months now is that enough to start my first cycle?

Also been reading on this forum to figure out for how long I should do my first cycle. But some do it for 4 weeks others for 6 and others for even 8 weeks.
How long should I do my first cycle for? Already asked this question last time but you didn't answer so gonna ask it again if you don't mind.

First cycle go for 4-5 weeks. Don’t overdo it.

[Cdsnuts]

First cycle go for 4-5 weeks. Don’t overdo it.

This^^^^^

[RoadToRecovery]

This^^^^^

I have ordered both Ultra Hard and Alpha 4. How would you recommend taking them?

[RoadToRecovery]

Will start my first prohormone cycle in 2 days. Im also currently doing more fmt's (fecal microbiota transplant) from a 2nd donor now for my severe gut issues.
Doing everything that the protocol recommends except carb backloading since my body doesn't respond well to it.

[Turnover25]

Will start my first prohormone cycle in 2 days. Im also currently doing more fmt's (fecal microbiota transplant) from a 2nd donor now for my severe gut issues.
Doing everything that the protocol recommends except carb backloading since my body doesn't respond well to it.

Wow, have you tried a fmt already?

[RoadToRecovery]

Wow, have you tried a fmt already?

I did before I found out about swole. Did more fmt after my water fast. And now doing fmt again from a different donor.
I believe it's crucial for some of us to recover. Especially if you are a severe case like me.

[Turnover25]

I did before I found out about swole. Did more fmt after my water fast. And now doing fmt again from a different donor.
I believe it's crucial for some of us to recover. Especially if you are a severe case like me.

I wasn’t meaning to sound condescending I was just curious, I don’t think I’ve seen that before. How’d it go?

[Cdsnuts]

Will start my first prohormone cycle in 2 days. Im also currently doing more fmt's (fecal microbiota transplant) from a 2nd donor now for my severe gut issues.
Doing everything that the protocol recommends except carb backloading since my body doesn't respond well to it.

Start out with 2 pumps UH and 1 pump Alpha 4, run it for a week then adjust upwards from there.

[RoadToRecovery]

I wasn’t meaning to sound condescending I was just curious, I don’t think I’ve seen that before. How’d it go?

It went okay. Currently waiting for the new microbes to settle. My stool type already changed just can not get rid of the bloating for some reason.

[RoadToRecovery]

Start out with 2 pumps UH and 1 pump Alpha 4, run it for a week then adjust upwards from there.

Currently 2 days in my dick looks really swollen. Is this normal?

[Cdsnuts]

Currently 2 days in my dick looks really swollen. Is this normal?

Yes. Well....not swollen, but "meatier" I guess if you had to describe it. Like it looks bigger in it's flaccid state then it would usually be, correct?

[RoadToRecovery]

Yes. Well....not swollen, but "meatier" I guess if you had to describe it. Like it looks bigger in it's flaccid state then it would usually be, correct?

Yes it looks bigger in it's flaccid state. Finished 1 month of ultra hard combined with alpha 4 now.
Depression is hitting hard again. I feel like ultra hard does not quite agree with me. It gives me bad tinnitus and fatigue. I think the fatigue is coming from low e2.

Are there any other cycles I can try besides ultra hard?

[Maxout777]

Yes it looks bigger in it's flaccid state. Finished 1 month of ultra hard combined with alpha 4 now.
Depression is hitting hard again. I feel like ultra hard does not quite agree with me. It gives me bad tinnitus and fatigue. I think the fatigue is coming from low e2.

Are there any other cycles I can try besides ultra hard?

In my opinion, in order:

1.) R Andro cream
2.) if low E2 issues, Alpha Four
3.) Ultra Hard

Fact is, Epiandro just doesn’t sit well with some during PFS. Even if low E2 is not the issue. Problem is androsterone and epiandrosterone serve two different functions relative to GABA (positive allosteric modulator/agonist and negative allosteric modulator/agonist), IIRC.

[Outlaw]

In my opinion, in order:

1.) R Andro cream
2.) if low E2 issues, Alpha Four
3.) Ultra Hard

Fact is, Epiandro just doesn’t sit well with some during PFS. Even if low E2 is not the issue. Problem is androsterone and epiandrosterone serve two different functions relative to GABA (positive allosteric modulator/agonist and negative allosteric modulator/agonist), IIRC.
Hey max, if I understand correctly the last part of your post, you're saying we would benefit from running both Epiandro and Andro prohormones to get max GABA benefits?

[MungYarlon]

Hey max, if I understand correctly the last part of your post, you're saying we would benefit from running both Epiandro and Andro prohormones to get max GABA benefits?

Not max benefits, epiandro would make you more jittery.

[Outlaw]

Not max benefits, epiandro would make you more jittery.
I meant max benefits regarding fixing GABA levels after the snapback, not really the side effects during the cycle. But thanks I didn't know that

[MungYarlon]

I meant max benefits regarding fixing GABA levels after the snapback, not really the side effects during the cycle. But thanks I didn't know that

Negative allosteric modulators antagonize the receptors which means reduced GABA, hence the jitters and so forth.

I'm not totally sure how that would benefit you post cycle though.

[Maxout777]

I meant max benefits regarding fixing GABA levels after the snapback, not really the side effects during the cycle. But thanks I didn't know that

That depends more on your GABA situation. If it's high, it's better for epi, if it's low, it would be better for androsterone.

I will say, in my experience helping folks and seeing this forum through the years, androsterone seems to be the better option for most people.