Sharing my journey with you all - Blackkey

[blackkey96]

I took the drug 1mg/day for 18 days. I dropped it because i couldn't get it up at all once. Two weeks after quitting, i was getting spontaneous erections back, but i crashed right after.
Right now, my symptoms are
1. Low (no) libido,
2. ED (can only maintain an erection with stimulation),
3. No pleasure during orgasm and very little ejaculate (like 1/10th of what it used to be).
4. I also developed a curvature on my penis, going to see the urologist for that, hoping its nothing serious
5. Penis just feels "thinner"
6. Very very mild brain fog. Improved a lot since I stopped. Was 9/10 before but now its like 2/10
7. Breathlessness while i'm asleep...usually connected to weird dreams.
8. Voice is flat
9. Don't feel as centered and confident as I was before, looking forward to life and all

Noticeably, my nocturnal erections/morning wood have been rather regular and gradually stronger every day, which I am looking at as a positive sign. But that's obviously not a solution.

Since this is my 6th week off the drug, and recovery is usually 3-6months naturally, i am hoping for a miracle. But I am also prepared to get into this regimen right after the 2 month mark. So basically, in 3 more weeks.
Additional info: I got my bloodwork done a few days ago, my serum testosterone came out as 537 ng/dl, and my estradiol came out as 17.9 pg/ml. Both, the nurse said, are in "normal range".
An additional note: I have regularly been going to the gym 4 times a week for more than 2 years.

Just had these lingering questions:
1. Can I continue the same gym routine I've had and just up the weights? Or should I match it exactly as the protocol? My current routine is as follows:
Shoulder: Dumbbell Shrug, Seated Rear Lateral Dumbbell Raise, Cable Face pulls, Dumbbell Front Raise, Side Lateral Raise
Legs: Leg Extensions, Calf Raise, Leg Curl, Squats, Romanian Deadlift
Chest: Pushups, Dumbbell Fly, Chest Dip, Dumbbell Bench Press, Rope Triceps Push Down
Back/Bi: Bicep Curls, Pull ups, One Arm Dumbbell Row, Standing Bicep Cable Curl, Lat Pulldown
2. Do I HAVE to opt for "Carb Backloading"? I can easily cut out carbs/bread etc, but is the backloading part necessary for recovery?

Thank you for reading! I will be regularly updating this forum!

[MungYarlon]

You're in a similar situation to me at the moment, I also took a DHT inhibitor in August, and since then I've had periods where I have felt 100% recovered and others where I am defo not. Since you appear to be recovering, I reckon hold off TMO for another month. If you feel a good improvement by then, you'll be fine (this is also what I'll be doing).

[blackkey96]

Thanks for your response! But my libido is still not the same as pre-fin, so I don't feel like I have 100% recovered on some days. The only times I get an erection is through manual stimulation or nocturnal erections, that's it. Sort of confused as to what I should do. I quit the drug on September 18th.

[MungYarlon]

No worries, you are improving (brain fog going from 9/10 to 2/10 for instance) at a relatively fast pace. These things take time to improve, but in your case waiting it out, and doing resistance training will be fine I think.

[MungYarlon]

Also, I know it sounds hard, but stop worrying so much about this. The less you think about it, the less likely you will feel the effects, and the quicker you will recover

[blackkey96]

Thanks for being so encouraging. And after discovering this forum and the positivity surrounding it, i do feel like thinking about these symptoms less and less. It's just that (don't mean to sound like an idiot) i was highly sexual before and this libido hit kind of really threw me off you know...and my penis had such a full feeling when flaccid and erect, and could get erect spontaneously. Two things which i'm hoping solve by themselves, like you say.

[MungYarlon]

We'll work this out together since our side effects our pretty identical. What I noticed tonight is that I felt fine drinking alcohol, and was easily able to get aroused, without any stimuli. It makes me think that in our instances, it is likely a psychological issue as opposed to a hormonal issue. I'll go on this once a day to make sure you are ok, but other than that I'm gonna keep my mind off this as much as possible, to stop overthinking.

[blackkey96]

How are you holding up man? MungYarlon
For me, i feel like i can follow the whole protocol and recover eveything but just afraid about not getting the libido i had before.It's the only thing i'm obsessed about tbh lol

[MungYarlon]

I'm doing decent at the moment. I lead a pretty healthy life at the moment anyway, and everyday I feel like I'm getting a little better. What you could try and do is take Cialis for a while if your erections are worrying you. It isn't chemically addictive, so once you feel better you can get off it.

[blackkey96]

Cialis is a temporary fix though isn't it? :/ MungYarlon

[blackkey96]

Breakthrough: I was able to get a boner without stimulation. This happened right after sunning my balls interestingly. Wasn't a full boner but it was a 70%. Which is coming from 0% in the worst days. I'm slowly incorporating the protocol in my life through bits, because I do believe It is a healthy way of living. I'm gonna go all in starting December, even if I get better or not. And I'm gonna jump in with both feet, I don't usually like to half ass things. Which means a complete change in my lifestyle.

[Cdsnuts]

There is no need to hold off on the protocol.....at all. This is something that "normal" guys can do to take themselves to the next level. That is like telling someone not to bother creating healthful habits.

MungYarlon I appreciate you trying to help, but at the moment you're really not in a position to be giving advice, especially incorrect advice at that.

blackkey96 You are correct. Cialis is a bandaid if anything. For the moment, try and stay away from all pharmaceuticals. They are not something you need to be introducing into your system when it is in such a fragile state.

Edit: We posted at the same time Blackkey...good for you. And yes, sunning the testicles creates an IMMEDIATE surge in test levels. Imagine what the whole protocol can do for you?

[blackkey96]

Just wondering about something regarding everyone's natural recoveries. It seems like people who recovered still used different things outside the protocol. For example rahaysa used dopamine antagonists, RES100 etc, jimmyjonas used something called 5a DHP or something, and zinc and copper, English used aromatase inhibitors...Just wondering if theres something i am missing out on that would prevent a full recovery for me like the ones these guys had. I do want to stay with the natural herb rotation and what not, but i also want to go for a full 100% recovery

[blackkey96]

Question:

My doctor said i do have mild peyronies (even though his diagnosis matched a lot of what this forum's users have had and have cured - "small plaque in the shaft causing hourglass shape" - which has been resolved by itself for some people here. My question is that he prescribed pentoxifylline ( a blood thinner) for the peyronies, He mentioned to take it for 3 months with a follow up visit. Should i do this or would it mess with the protocol?

[Bankai9000]

I've read the whole peyronies forum a year ago.
The thing that helped ppl who alrdy have peyronies plaques, was waterfasting of a minimum of 6 days. Usually 5 days or less had no effect. Same time every single person who did above 6 days reported success in their symptoms.
There are quite some who belive peyronies is nothing else like inflammation in the dikk, some say keto halts and sometimes reverses symptoms (I'm not a fan of keto, takes also too long), but some call peyronies is like insulin resistence in yo dikk.

Personally I recommend fixing your hips a bit, do stretches. Maybe follow "strength side" or "Tom Merrick" on yt and do those workouts hip stuff 2-5x a week when u get up.
Also highly recommend this here
Heat Therapy for Peyronies and ED - Better Than Verapamil (at home and nearly free) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPfsF4KQPRg&t=323s)


I'd rather maybe take sth more natural, like serrapeptase or nattokinase if it's actual plaquing.
Turmeric, garlic, ginger all of those are also blood thinners. Sauna.

Follow the protocol, everything else is always on your own risk I'd say, just some ideas from my side

[Surrey]

Just wondering about something regarding everyone's natural recoveries. It seems like people who recovered still used different things outside the protocol. For example rahaysa used dopamine antagonists, RES100 etc, jimmyjonas used something called 5a DHP or something, and zinc and copper, English used aromatase inhibitors...Just wondering if theres something i am missing out on that would prevent a full recovery for me like the ones these guys had. I do want to stay with the natural herb rotation and what not, but i also want to go for a full 100% recovery

Yes I am wondering the same question as Blackkey, can anyone please confirm? There is no talk about dopamine androgens, and DHT stuff onTMO website and I rather sick with just the TMO guidelines. Which is just herbs, mediation, sleep recovery etc...

Thank you,
Surrey

[Mojo]

Don’t worry about other factors for at least the first 6 months of protocol (CD will probably say way longer). You can tweak things later on by the time you have at least a good foundation running and your system has somewhat stabilized. It would be too hard to judge whether new additions will be benefiting you while your body is still in flux. I understand you are suffering from a fear of missing out on key building blocks but you need to take your time and don’t rush things. It will be easier to listen to your body and understand what is benefiting you and what is not much later on.

[blackkey96]

Thank you Mojo and Bankai9000 for the sage advice. I am starting an intermittent water-fast (3 day, refeed with just bone broth, then 2 day) tomorrow (because i feel like my symptoms are thankfully not as bad. I feel like i am at a 55% right now past two months with a loosely applied protocol.
This improvement has included an improvement to the brain to dick connection, mental improvements such as flow of thought returning, there was a time where i was able to have my old thinking back, and then i noticed the next morning's anxious awakening removed it.
So far i feel like for my case the mind is playing a huge role. I have been texting a girl and reaction downstairs has been pretty good. Woke up to a pretty strong morning wood (though it was a 'tight' erection) a couple of nights as well, even though wouldn't feel anything. Cold showers have helped immensely.
Symptoms remaining:
Anhedonia/head pressure
Voice hoarseness
Libido needs improvement
Erection quality needs improvement
Penis Sensitivity needs improvement
Penile curvature still there
Hourglass shape/shrinkage when flaccid
Ejaculate volume/quality

[petty3112]

Thank you Mojo and Bankai9000 for the sage advice. I am starting an intermittent water-fast (3 day, refeed with just bone broth, then 2 day) tomorrow (because i feel like my symptoms are thankfully not as bad. I feel like i am at a 55% right now past two months with a loosely applied protocol.
This improvement has included an improvement to the brain to dick connection, mental improvements such as flow of thought returning, there was a time where i was able to have my old thinking back, and then i noticed the next morning's anxious awakening removed it.
So far i feel like for my case the mind is playing a huge role. I have been texting a girl and reaction downstairs has been pretty good. Woke up to a pretty strong morning wood (though it was a 'tight' erection) a couple of nights as well, even though wouldn't feel anything. Cold showers have helped immensely.
Symptoms remaining:
Anhedonia/head pressure
Voice hoarseness
Libido needs improvement
Erection quality needs improvement
Penis Sensitivity needs improvement
Penile curvature still there
Hourglass shape/shrinkage when flaccid
Ejaculate volume/quality
I have this as well, it's definitely a strange feeling. Although I'm beginning to forget how my dick felt pre-PFS, so maybe it's a "new normal." I think this also affects the sensitivity, though I'm not sure the exact physiology behind it.

CD and others have said that sexual sides are the last to come back online after the crash, so just stay the course. The fact that you're already feeling stuff downstairs is a good sign. The brain/dick connection is a complicated one.

[blackkey96]

Third day of water fast, going pretty well. Idk if its placebo or whatever, idk, but my mind is clear on this third day (in terms of head pressure). Instead of breaking it tomorrow, I think i'm gonna go all in and go 5 days.

[blackkey96]

My main concern is diet here. I am really confused if, specifically for eliminating brain fog, i should stick completely to raw food or not. I am also confused about the fact that, what if yes i go on vacation & i bring the protocol with me but what would i do about the diet? What if i go to a restaurant and order a paleo friendly meal but the meat they use is not grassfed/organic? What if im invited to a wedding and the meat there (and the oil) is not organic? Based on Chi and Japanther's stories, i'm afraid that'l hinder my progress? I'm just confused about that to be honest. Otherwise i know what to do about exercise, HIIT, herb rotation, meditation and sleep.

[blackkey96]

I transitioned to a juice feast, on day 3 now. Okay..the bathmate is a GAMECHANGER..and this is after only one use. @CDNuts , do you think using the bathmate this early on during my juice feast is detrimental to the genital numbness i have been experiencing anyhow?

[Maxout777]

Not CD, but it’s not going to be detrimental at all. I’d keep at it.

[blackkey96]

Thanks for your response Maxout777.
Is Whey Protein Isolate from GNC a good enough protein powder. I have a lot of it and planning on switching to organic ones but dont wanna let this go to waste. Since carb backloading is usually easy going for sugar, is it okay to use this protein powder for a few weeks?

[Cdsnuts]

Not CD, but it’s not going to be detrimental at all. I’d keep at it.

This^^^^^^^^^

If anything it would be helpful, not detrimental. And yes, it is a game changer. That's why it's included in the protocol. The protocol itself is a game changer. Remember, the sum of all of the parts are GREATER then each on their own.

The whey is fine if you don't have an allergy to dairy.

[Comewhatmay]

Just a quick question in regards to protein shakes. Which is the best type of milk to add for taste as I dislike the water. Heard mixed things about almond milk

[Maxout777]

Just a quick question in regards to protein shakes. Which is the best type of milk to add for taste as I dislike the water. Heard mixed things about almond milk

I've used almond milk and coconut milk both. Also, raw milk is premium.

[Cdsnuts]

I've used almond milk and coconut milk both. Also, raw milk is premium.

This^^^^^^^again.

[blackkey96]

Really appreciate the advice here. I am planning on working out every morning right after waking up before work, because I understand it is just a healthy thing to do and is also a good thing to set the rhythm for the day. Keeping this in mind, how would i fit backloading into this? Should I still stick to eating carbs/drinking protein shake in the evening despite working out in the morning of the same day?

[Cdsnuts]

Really appreciate the advice here. I am planning on working out every morning right after waking up before work, because I understand it is just a healthy thing to do and is also a good thing to set the rhythm for the day. Keeping this in mind, how would i fit backloading into this? Should I still stick to eating carbs/drinking protein shake in the evening despite working out in the morning of the same day?

Protein you would have all day long. The carbs you would still eat at night.

[blackkey96]

Thank you for the response CD. So last week my sensitivity was very very very slowly returning, i was getting that pins and needles feeling which transitioned to a slightly better sensation on my genitals. I decided to take advantage of this and used the bathmate (started at very low pressure and gradually moved to high). The first five minutes, sensation markedly improved. After the first five minutes i stopped to give it a break (as instructed) before the next 5 minute session, where the next 5 minute session it started to slightly ache. So i'm back to square one on that and have decided to jelq with coconut oil instead when the slight sensitivity returns later, and use the bathmate at the end point of my journey.

[Cdsnuts]

Thank you for the response CD. So last week my sensitivity was very very very slowly returning, i was getting that pins and needles feeling which transitioned to a slightly better sensation on my genitals. I decided to take advantage of this and used the bathmate (started at very low pressure and gradually moved to high). The first five minutes, sensation markedly improved. After the first five minutes i stopped to give it a break (as instructed) before the next 5 minute session, where the next 5 minute session it started to slightly ache. So i'm back to square one on that and have decided to jelq with coconut oil instead when the slight sensitivity returns later, and use the bathmate at the end point of my journey.

No need to wait until the end. That's on you. You should be using it the entire time during your recovery. It has nothing to do with your sensitivity or lack there of.

[blackkey96]

Thanks for your responses CD. Just two questions:
1. Currently i have the following tribulus as part of my rotation: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07SWJ3298/ref=sspa_mw_detail_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1
And it has 45% steroidal saponins
I came across this that claims to have 90% steroidal saponins: https://www.amazon.com/Evlution-Nutrition-Strength-Tribulus-Capsules/dp/B07MWDFRKF

Should i switch to the better saponin one?

2. Is there a danger if i rotate both pine pollen AND black maca day on day off? Not planning on doing it because i believe fully in the protocol, but if you think its not a problem then i might consider it.

Won't bother you after this CD, planning on disappearing off the forum for a while after this, gotta chip away and meditate!

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for your responses CD. Just two questions:
1. Currently i have the following tribulus as part of my rotation: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07SWJ3298/ref=sspa_mw_detail_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1
And it has 45% steroidal saponins
I came across this that claims to have 90% steroidal saponins: https://www.amazon.com/Evlution-Nutrition-Strength-Tribulus-Capsules/dp/B07MWDFRKF

Should i switch to the better saponin one?

2. Is there a danger if i rotate both pine pollen AND black maca day on day off? Not planning on doing it because i believe fully in the protocol, but if you think its not a problem then i might consider it.

Won't bother you after this CD, planning on disappearing off the forum for a while after this, gotta chip away and meditate!

Go with the higher saponin one and keep us posted.

The pine pollen is fine for daily use but I would still rotate the maca to no more then twice a week.

[blackkey96]

Hi Cdsnuts, over the past two weeks during the holiday, i have been having carbs (healthy) in the daytime. I also had two instances where I had gluten and sugar. Do you think I should fast again?

[Cdsnuts]

Hi Cdsnuts, over the past two weeks during the holiday, i have been having carbs (healthy) in the daytime. I also had two instances where I had gluten and sugar. Do you think I should fast again?

No, it's not really necessary. Just keep moving forward and keep doing the right thing and you'll be fine. Now if you told me that you went on a month long bender, well then that would be a different story. Be thankful you didn't and you just had a little holiday hiccup, no biggie.

[blackkey96]

Hope everyone is doing great. I had a few questions:
1. Is protein Powder necessary on the protocol? Herbs are kind of expensive as is, do i have to go out of my way to buy the kind of protein powder not found elsewhere that fits the fietary requirements of the protocol?
2. I never pass normal stool. I donmt know why that happens but every time its (sorry for the visual) porridge like. It has not gotten better despite having a strict diet. Im at a loss...i need my digestion back but i don't know what's going on in there

[Cdsnuts]

Hope everyone is doing great. I had a few questions:
1. Is protein Powder necessary on the protocol? Herbs are kind of expensive as is, do i have to go out of my way to buy the kind of protein powder not found elsewhere that fits the fietary requirements of the protocol?
2. I never pass normal stool. I donmt know why that happens but every time its (sorry for the visual) porridge like. It has not gotten better despite having a strict diet. Im at a loss...i need my digestion back but i don't know what's going on in there

No. That was just the best protein at the time, but it's not going to make or break anything. You don't even HAVE to supplement with it if you don't want. If you do decide to supplement, any kind of protein with an all natural ingredient list would fit the bill.

Have you tried probiotics? Regardless, this is a symptom that will pass, in time, like the rest of them.

[blackkey96]

Hi all. Prayers for everyone. Just checking in, I've plateaued at 60% and i'm working on fixing my digestion rn with a functional medicine doctor. Penile shape has definitely improved and so has erection quality. Morning woods/nocturnal erections (not mostly 100% strength) are pretty regular and that was never a problem.
My biggest concerns remain the anhedonia (penile sensitivity kind of better, but its like i don't feel the pleasure in my brain) and my voice (was diagnosed with silent reflux by an ENT) but i refuse to believe it could be triggered overnight. I def think its because of thyroid/androgen imbalance.
Should mucuna pruriene help me? Or like...idk whats going on. Do i have TOO many dopamine receptors that the little dopamine i have doesnt satisfy them?
Take care all

[MungYarlon]

Hi all. Prayers for everyone. Just checking in, I've plateaued at 60% and i'm working on fixing my digestion rn with a functional medicine doctor. Penile shape has definitely improved and so has erection quality. Morning woods/nocturnal erections (not mostly 100% strength) are pretty regular and that was never a problem.
My biggest concerns remain the anhedonia (penile sensitivity kind of better, but its like i don't feel the pleasure in my brain) and my voice (was diagnosed with silent reflux by an ENT) but i refuse to believe it could be triggered overnight. I def think its because of thyroid/androgen imbalance.
Should mucuna pruriene help me? Or like...idk whats going on. Do i have TOO many dopamine receptors that the little dopamine i have doesnt satisfy them?
Take care all

Anhedonia in PFS cases tend to be caused by low allopregnanolone, so probably not a dopamine deficiency, although yes of course, if you have less testosterone you will have a dopamine deficiency without supplementation. I'll attach a link to an article on neurotransmitters; there you'll find information on what a dopamine deficiency entails. I find it highly unlikely you have too much dopamine though.

https://medium.com/publishous/fixing-your-brain-a-guide-to-balancing-neurotransmitters-72649aab40b1

[Cdsnuts]

Hi all. Prayers for everyone. Just checking in, I've plateaued at 60% and i'm working on fixing my digestion rn with a functional medicine doctor. Penile shape has definitely improved and so has erection quality. Morning woods/nocturnal erections (not mostly 100% strength) are pretty regular and that was never a problem.
My biggest concerns remain the anhedonia (penile sensitivity kind of better, but its like i don't feel the pleasure in my brain) and my voice (was diagnosed with silent reflux by an ENT) but i refuse to believe it could be triggered overnight. I def think its because of thyroid/androgen imbalance.
Should mucuna pruriene help me? Or like...idk whats going on. Do i have TOO many dopamine receptors that the little dopamine i have doesnt satisfy them?
Take care all

"Spot fixing" tends not to be the best method in this case. Typically, it never really is. Bring the entire organism back into balance and this will fix itself. End of story.

Mucuna puriens is in the herb rotation list, fyi.

[blackkey96]

Hi all. Just an update: I have been doing well mentally and even had a prominent surge in libido earlier this week which I hadn't Gotten in a while. My semen is 100% resolved and I have no problems with erections.
Remaining issues: numb orgasms, numb penis, penile shrinkage at the bottom, libido, a little brain fog and finally, digestion:
The problem I am facing is diet wise. I think the stress caused by the initial crash gave me IBS-D, but I am not sure because it could also be bile acid malabsorption since 5AR is key in bile production.
I have been trying different diets and stuff so I am kind of at a loss in terms of what else to do.

[GoldenSun]

Glad you are getting better bro. I had a quick question because your symptoms are exactly what mine have been. I was wondering (if you could put it in a %) what is your baseline libido at these days?

[Cdsnuts]

Hi all. Just an update: I have been doing well mentally and even had a prominent surge in libido earlier this week which I hadn't Gotten in a while. My semen is 100% resolved and I have no problems with erections.
Remaining issues: numb orgasms, numb penis, penile shrinkage at the bottom, libido, a little brain fog and finally, digestion:
The problem I am facing is diet wise. I think the stress caused by the initial crash gave me IBS-D, but I am not sure because it could also be bile acid malabsorption since 5AR is key in bile production.
I have been trying different diets and stuff so I am kind of at a loss in terms of what else to do.

Have you cycled yet?

[blackkey96]

I haven't. I'm kind of afraid of prohormones after my recent stints of hormonal experiences.

[Cdsnuts]

I haven't. I'm kind of afraid of prohormones after my recent stints of hormonal experiences.

Well, you said you were at a loss, so you have two options: Continue on as you normally would and you'll eventually break the plateau you're at, or......cycle to definitely break the plateau you're at.

[Ratchet_V2]

Hey blackkey,

I know you said your experience has paralleled mine in a lot of ways. If that’s the case, I’d highly recommend cycling as soon as possible. I was hesitant too, but as I recover and complete my first cycle, I do regret not doing it sooner. I think I could have resolved some things that are going to take much longer and be harder to resolve now.

That said, my only recommendation is going in and having your hormones tested pre cycle to A) make sure they’re high enough B) put you in a good headspace. I haven’t experienced any downsides on my cycle except for some sleep disturbances, intermittent fatigue, and slight agitation at times. All around a good experience and I plan on running these indefinitely until I’m 100% again.

All the best,

Ratchet

[blackkey96]

All, just an update
Since January 2021 i have been getting a few days where I actually wake up positive that has been happening quite a lot lately. I have figured out that this has damaged my gut extensively so I am doing like a complete keto diet and in fact i don't even want to deal with meat because it just feels like too much work trying to find the "right" kind. I'll maybe occasionally have some
I'm also not doing any fruit either. Sugar and carbs are completely out. So is protein powder. How am I supposed to take so much protein powder and expect a weak stomach to handle it? Yes I am probably not gaining any muscle but will that affect my recovery in any way? I can always start taking it when I recover so idk would like some advice on that.

In regards to penile atrophy, I do think the kind of atrophy I have had isn't the same as many of the people who have recovered have had. I have loss of tissue at the base of the penis which I have not heard anybody else have. I'm fine with it though because as long as the dick works i don't care.

What I'm not fine with though is how back in December 2020, the bathmate damaged my penis. Just from the SECOND TIME USAGE.. It really did not help at all and made me dysmorphic. Why is it in this protocol?! And why is it recommended to be used with 3 rounds 5 minutes each (with a 1-2minute break) in the middle?! As if i wasn't atrophied enough already? With all due respect Cdsnuts people are going through hell when they are trying to find a regimen
I get you want to keep the lights on but why would you recommend something like this to people who are at their weakest? That really damaged my faith in the protocol tbh but I just continued with diet and herbs which I am still doing right now. I'm a fucking trooper in my life & this did me in tbh. Fuck the bathmate times 30. And nobody tell me I didn't "use" it properly because I followed the instructions to a T. I guess shit (on top of shit) happens. I'm over it though.

I'm also deathly afraid of anything "extra" aka not herbs/diet/exercise now because of this. It really messed with my head when I damaged my dick it's gotten much better now but still. Fuck that device I threw it away immediately after. Waste of $60. I wish I could do pro hormones but God knows what kind of new unexpected shit it's going to create for me.

To sum it up, i'm super super strict on diet, no meat (making a salad is much easier that's all), no vegetable oil, no fruit, no protein powder and no carbs. Is backloading necessary?
And I am pushing through downswings but when the rare upswings come I cherish them.


Please don't hate me for criticizing certain aspects of your protocol Cdsnuts i know you work hard on it but i would still like you to give me any advice if you have. Thanks everyone.

[Readytonut]

To sum it up, i'm super super strict on diet, no meat (making a salad is much easier that's all), no vegetable oil, no fruit, no protein powder and no carbs. Is backloading necessary?
And I am pushing through downswings but when the rare upswings come I cherish them.


Please don't hate me for criticizing certain aspects of your protocol Cdsnuts i know you work hard on it but i would still like you to give me any advice if you have. Thanks everyone.


Just out of curiosity, what are you eating when you dont eat the stuff you ruled out? There is almost nothing left to eat?? Maybe eggs nuts, and salads? Thats a weird diet.

[Cdsnuts]

All, just an update
Since January 2021 i have been getting a few days where I actually wake up positive that has been happening quite a lot lately. I have figured out that this has damaged my gut extensively so I am doing like a complete keto diet and in fact i don't even want to deal with meat because it just feels like too much work trying to find the "right" kind. I'll maybe occasionally have some
I'm also not doing any fruit either. Sugar and carbs are completely out. So is protein powder. How am I supposed to take so much protein powder and expect a weak stomach to handle it? Yes I am probably not gaining any muscle but will that affect my recovery in any way? I can always start taking it when I recover so idk would like some advice on that.

In regards to penile atrophy, I do think the kind of atrophy I have had isn't the same as many of the people who have recovered have had. I have loss of tissue at the base of the penis which I have not heard anybody else have. I'm fine with it though because as long as the dick works i don't care.

What I'm not fine with though is how back in December 2020, the bathmate damaged my penis. Just from the SECOND TIME USAGE.. It really did not help at all and made me dysmorphic. Why is it in this protocol?! And why is it recommended to be used with 3 rounds 5 minutes each (with a 1-2minute break) in the middle?! As if i wasn't atrophied enough already? With all due respect Cdsnuts people are going through hell when they are trying to find a regimen
I get you want to keep the lights on but why would you recommend something like this to people who are at their weakest? That really damaged my faith in the protocol tbh but I just continued with diet and herbs which I am still doing right now. I'm a fucking trooper in my life & this did me in tbh. Fuck the bathmate times 30. And nobody tell me I didn't "use" it properly because I followed the instructions to a T. I guess shit (on top of shit) happens. I'm over it though.

I'm also deathly afraid of anything "extra" aka not herbs/diet/exercise now because of this. It really messed with my head when I damaged my dick it's gotten much better now but still. Fuck that device I threw it away immediately after. Waste of $60. I wish I could do pro hormones but God knows what kind of new unexpected shit it's going to create for me.

To sum it up, i'm super super strict on diet, no meat (making a salad is much easier that's all), no vegetable oil, no fruit, no protein powder and no carbs. Is backloading necessary?
And I am pushing through downswings but when the rare upswings come I cherish them.


Please don't hate me for criticizing certain aspects of your protocol Cdsnuts i know you work hard on it but i would still like you to give me any advice if you have. Thanks everyone.

Well I'm not going to lie to you......you used it incorrectly, otherwise you wouldn't have hurt yourself. And where did you get a bathmate for $60? No such thing?

You said it really didn't help.....well, that's because you used it TWICE. Nothing is going to help you when you use it two times, incorrectly, apparently.

The bathmate has been a huge savior in regards to maintaining penile circulation and to help with atrophy. It works as advertised and I couldn't imagine NOT using it during recovery. It is the best pump on the market and just because you didn't use it properly, you really shouldn't come here scaring off other guys who it could potentially help.

It's a top of the line product in regards to pumps. And in regards to leaving the lights on......LOL...you got it twisted. Money has nothing to do with the things I recommend. This site doesn't make enough for me to keep my own lights on, let alone this place.

And now you're not going to eat meat or fruit and whatever else you decide to leave out.

Is backloading necessary?

Listen.....it seems a lot of the new guys think they can just come and pick and choose which parts of the protocol they want to do. It doesn't work that way. You get what you put it.

There is a REASON for every single piece of the protocol and the men that follow it to a T, for the most part, are the ones that recover the quickest.

Hate you? No....give you advice......you're kidding me, right? The advice is the website and everything on this forum for the past ten years that I have put together and is the reason for hundreds of recoveries, not to mention the reason for the up swings you're finally starting to have. EVERYONE knows my advice, but you're going to do what you want anyway.

Damaged your faith in the protocol? Is your faith still damaged during your cherished upswings?

Come on.

Do yourself a favor and search this board for bathmate posts.......sorry my man, but there is no way a two time use of the best pump on the market has caused dysmorphia. You're psyching yourself out by letting your fear dictate the proper course of action.

God knows what kind of unexpected shit the prohormones will cause?......well, seeing as we've been doing this a long time, I know exactly what the prohormones will cause as does everyone else who has run them very successfully. An increase in 5ar, an increase in DHT and eventually a speeding up of recovery time.

FYI....you're not following the protocol. without doing what is recommended, I really can't help you if you can't help yourself.

[blackkey96]

Cdsnuts thanks for the response.

1. regarding fruit: this i decided based on trial and error. I have noticed I really don't do well with sugar. So should I still eat it and feel bad knowing its in the protocol or should I just abstain from it until I get better? Will not having fruit harm me in any way? and it's not just fruit that I've noticed bad symptoms with, its also paprika/bell pepper/spices (nightshades mainly). So am I making a stupid decision or should I still be eating this things anyways in the name of paleo? Or is tweaking the diet okay?

2. Regarding meat: and this is an honest question, how necessary is it in terms of recovery? I am still cycling herbs and all, but do I HAVE to eat meat? What's wrong with regular all natural salad? With some salad dressings? Genuine question.

3. Regarding pro hormones: I am SCARED, man. I'm sure you would understand. I have been going to the gym and everything, I am legitimately scared of an external hormone. I really want to break through but i just don't know how it would go with me. It's super scary, even people in this forum stopped using them because of High or Low E /anhedonia or whatever. Please understand the position I am in.


4. Is my faith still damaged during my cherished upswings: NO. I STILL cycle herbs and gym. I do that. Its just the aforementioned underlying questions that I have which nobody else can answer, like a doctor is obviously going to tell me to eat whatever that I'm fine. A friend is not gonna know what the hell I'm talking about. My parents would be like do whatever you want. Hence I come here, seeking your advice

5. protein powder. Like People use it to gain muscle right? And to gain muscle one must use it in large amounts right? So what would be the explanation if I was using it pretty regularly and it messed a weak stomach? What would you advise regarding this? I'm using myprotein btw. There is literally no other healthy protein alternative, the one on your website has been sold out for years.

6. Regarding Carb backloading: on the website it says it is fully optional and is only relevant to building muscle and not for recovery from PFS symptoms. So can I drop it?

Finally Re the bathmate: is it not supposed to be used 3 rounds with 5 minutes with 2-3 minute breaks in the middle? Not to mention there is no pressure gauge to tell us if we are going overboard? So i just don't understand WHERE I went wrong If i had been using it as described. 5x3. The only reason I used it twice was I obviously wouldn't want to use the device on an injured member.

[blackkey96]

Readytonut

Bone broth, tea, salad, avocados, nice salad dressings
I mean its no different to the protocol diet just no meat, nightshades and fruit.

[Cdsnuts]

Cdsnuts thanks for the response.

1. regarding fruit: this i decided based on trial and error. I have noticed I really don't do well with sugar. So should I still eat it and feel bad knowing its in the protocol or should I just abstain from it until I get better? Will not having fruit harm me in any way? and it's not just fruit that I've noticed bad symptoms with, its also paprika/bell pepper/spices (nightshades mainly). So am I making a stupid decision or should I still be eating this things anyways in the name of paleo? Or is tweaking the diet okay?

There are a lot of varieties you may enjoy. If you don't' like it or it makes you feel unwell, then don't force it. Realize you're missing out on one of the best forms of nutrition nature has to offer.

2. Regarding meat: and this is an honest question, how necessary is it in terms of recovery? I am still cycling herbs and all, but do I HAVE to eat meat? What's wrong with regular all natural salad? With some salad dressings? Genuine question.

When eating in a neolithic or Paleothic way, meat and fat are where you get the majority of your calories from. These foods also directly aid in better, faster muscle growth, but are also what your body uses to create androgens. Animals products, clean, fresh animal products aid in many, many other growth positive ways. You can't live on salad alone. How necessary is it for recovery? Well seeing as this whole TMO is basically just a giant restart, everything listed is there for a reason....because it directly takes us back to eating the way our bodies were designed to, thus initiating certain genetic triggers favorable to recovery. You don't have to get huge and stuff your face, but you should be following TMO, and part of that is the Paleo/Primal diet.

3. Regarding pro hormones: I am SCARED, man. I'm sure you would understand. I have been going to the gym and everything, I am legitimately scared of an external hormone. I really want to break through but i just don't know how it would go with me. It's super scary, even people in this forum stopped using them because of High or Low E /anhedonia or whatever. Please understand the position I am in.

If anyone understands, WE do.....that's why you're here, correct?

10 years brother......10 years.

Stop falling into fear. There are more people that benefited from using them then not. Focus on THAT, not the few it didn't work for. You're setting yourself up for failure before you even start. You don't have to, but it does speed up the process. You're using scarcity thinking. Trust the process.

4. Is my faith still damaged during my cherished upswings: NO. I STILL cycle herbs and gym. I do that. Its just the aforementioned underlying questions that I have which nobody else can answer, like a doctor is obviously going to tell me to eat whatever that I'm fine. A friend is not gonna know what the hell I'm talking about. My parents would be like do whatever you want. Hence I come here, seeking your advice.

Then please take it.

5. protein powder. Like People use it to gain muscle right? And to gain muscle one must use it in large amounts right? So what would be the explanation if I was using it pretty regularly and it messed a weak stomach? What would you advise regarding this? I'm using myprotein btw. There is literally no other healthy protein alternative, the one on your website has been sold out for years.

You don't need protein powder. That's more for the guys that want to get bigger. If it bothers your stomach, stick to the real thing. No issue there.

6. Regarding Carb backloading: on the website it says it is fully optional and is only relevant to building muscle and not for recovery from PFS symptoms. So can I drop it?

It does have favorable hormonal advantages to guys trying to get bigger. Getting bigger is correlated with higher androgen levels. You see where I'm going with this......you don't have to do it, no.

Finally Re the bathmate: is it not supposed to be used 3 rounds with 5 minutes with 2-3 minute breaks in the middle? Not to mention there is no pressure gauge to tell us if we are going overboard? So i just don't understand WHERE I went wrong If i had been using it as described. 5x3. The only reason I used it twice was I obviously wouldn't want to use the device on an injured member.

Correct.

You ARE the pressure gauge?! You can feel when you're over doing it! Quite easily. You should have never force it......it's a process you learn, and get better at with practice. In the beginning, it's tricky, but the results are absolutely worth it.




See response above.

[blackkey96]

Cdsnuts

Okay, i think i'm going to restart the protocol with a 7 day fast and incorporate carb backloading and prohormones.

After how many weeks of working out/herb cycling should I start an 8-week pro hormone cycle?

[Cdsnuts]

Cdsnuts

Okay, i think i'm going to restart the protocol with a 7 day fast and incorporate carb backloading and prohormones.

After how many weeks of working out/herb cycling should I start an 8-week pro hormone cycle?

Seeing as you've been tip toeing around the protocol, I'd say run it 100% for 4-6 weeks then cycle. Keep us posted.