New sufferer from Italy...

[Alex_Italiano]

I guys, I'm new here. Here my story. Sorry if it's long, I'll try being as much short as possible. I'm not and native English speaker: hope this is clear anyway.


Who I am
31 years old, Italian, don't smoke, drink only socially (once a week), no drugs. Height 1.74 meters, weight 57 kg (BMI 18.8).
Quite reflective, emphatetic and sensible character, not the most solar guy on Earth but very sociable and funny when I'm fine. Good success with girls, more due to my head and character than my body (I'm a pretty but skinny guy).


What I took

For prostatitis
5mg/day for 60days of Finasteride in October-November 2019 (Proscar), 320mg/day of Saw Palmetto/Serenoa Repens for 26 days in September 2020


My Symptoms

From late September 2020:

a) Sexual:

a.1) ED/impotence: initially total impotence. Then a bit better. Now so-so. Anyway just a shadow of me few month ago.

a.2) Loss of Libido: some day higher, some day lower.

a.3) Loss of spontaneuos/morning erection: have some nocturnals (in particular I wake up with nocturnal and a stimule to pee).

b) Mental:

b.1) Insomnia: main mental issue. I can fall asleep quite easily, but I wake up after 4-5 hours and can't take sleep back again; the next day I am not particularly tired despite the low amount of hours slept.

b.2) Depression: Now I am quite depressed. Sometimes I cry and see my life ruined, but I think it caused mainly by my symptoms appeared overnight and not a direct effect of the drugs.

b.3) Sense of Disconnection: I don't know if it's sexual, mental, physical, but in general I feel like my head is disconnected from my penis. Also I feel like testicles insensivity.


c) Physical:

c.1) Lower abdomen pain: This is quite scarying. Every day I experiment lower abdomen pain (similar to what you feel when you're kicked in the balls, but much less intense even if more lasting);

c.2) Pain/burning in Perianal Area: some days I experiment pain/burning in perianal area (prostatitis? urinary issue? mental stress which concentrates there?).


My Exams

Visits
I see many andrologists and endocrinologists. Almost all of them said that mine is a phsicological problem. In any case I've not received an aswer to my problem that sounds meaningful to me. They said that Finasteride of 2019 cannot cause effects one year later (even if they agreed that it should have not be prescribed to a 30 years guy), while Serenoa of September 2020 cannot cause these side effects at all.

Exam
I had a magnetic resonance of the pelvic area, ultrasound to penis, scrotum, prostate and urinary apparatus and in all cases seem to be all ok.

I'm waiting for gut microbiota test results.

Hormonal panel (I write down here only the main, if you ask for other I'll add):

1. Testosterone
Strange values. Tested 3 times in 3 different labs (different range values).
29 September (last day of Serenoa): 733 ng/dL (16-753);
7 October: 344 ng/dL (249-836);
21 November: 238 ng/dL (197-670).

2. Free Testosterone
7 October: 9.98 pg/mL (1.00-28.28);
21 November: 13.65 pg/mL (15-50).

3. DHT
7 October: 483 pg/mL (250-990);
21 November: 549 pg/mL (250-990).

4. FSH
29 September: 4.5 mUI/mL (0.7-10.8)
21 November: 5.8 mUI/mL (1.4-18.1)

5. LH
29 September: 3.2 mUI/mL (1.2-10.6)
21 November: 2.0 mUI/mL (1.5-9.3)

6. DHEA-S
17 October: 456 ug/dL (34-570)
21 November: 384 ug/dL (34-570)

7. SHBG
17 October: 43.63 nmol/L (16-80.5)

8. Cortisol
7 October: 22.8 ug/dL (6.2-19.4);
21 November: 23.2 ug/dL (5.27-22.4).

9. 17 Beta Estradiol
7 October: 17.3 pg/mL (27.1-52.2);
21 November: 15.25 pg/mL (11.8-39.8).


What I'm taking

Melatonin 2mg, retard release (Circadin) for insomnia.
Vitamin D trying to free/un-tie some testosterone.

Not taking Cialis 5mg, even if diffent andrologists have prescribed it to me. It may be helpful at least at the beginning? To be honest I fear that it doesn't work: since in this situation I think to PDE5 as the last chance, finding out that they don't work would sink my humor: It's like I prefer to not discover.


My Story

In october/november 2019 I took for 60days 5mg of finasteride (Proscar), for a supposed prostatitis, prescribed by an idiot urologist. No side effect at all. Also after quitting it, I was horny as always and able to get an erection just with texting to a girl during quarantine or flirting verbally with a girl in the sea this August. I wasn't aware at all of its side effect, I trusted in the consultant prescription.

In September 2020 I was having some burning in perianal area and I thought it was my prostate. So I took some pills of saw palmetto/serenoa repens, which I usually used in these cases in the past with no side effects.
I took them for 26 days. I started to note some symptoms on 20 September. In particular I needed more time to get an erection with a girl and I lost it during the third shot (first two went well) and stop the sex.
One week later I have to masturbate for a sperm exam and it remains totally flaccid.
In the next weeks I’ve never been able to make it up anymore.

In October I had no erections at all. I developed the Insomnia I described above.

In November I start to have some erections. In some cases it was quite spontaneous (no fap, nor particular stimulation). I get back the ability to masturbate every now and then.

In December the situation it's rollercasting, but has not returned to the total death of October. By the way I developed the Physical pain I described above. In particular the Lower Abdomen Pain is frightening me a lot (even now I'm typing I feel pain).

I can also admit that there's a psychological aspect and in fact I'm seeing a terapist trained in EMDR. I can also admit that this 2020 has been a difficult year I am at home since february and except for August and September, my life has been a confiment in my bedroom where I smartworking.
By the way I'm pretty sure that the whole thing isn't psychological and the Hormonal values and the pain/feeling I feel are quite objective.
Until 3 months ago I was able to have erection in any condition and whenever I wanted. Never had a defaillance with a girl and always to fuck 3 times in a row. Everything has always worked very well down there. Now I feel like it has betrayed me!

Fortunately I've not developed other major mental issue than Insomnia.

I’m trying to staying calm but the thought that my life is ruined and that I’ll never have a relationship is always in my mind.

Unfortunately I don’t have any relationship right now, so I cannot test my response with other sex. One month ago I had some petting with a girl. I had erections (maybe not good/hard as one time), but I had severe premature ejaculation, jerking off in my underwear without particular stimulation; after one hour we petted again and I was close to shoot again super quickly, so I desisted...

Surfed on PH in October and November but it doesn't help so much. I read there about CdNuts Protocol even if CdNuts is ostracized there (don't know why, they said he is a crook and his protocol is scam: to me, after reading this forum, CdNuts seems a good person). I found out this forum by chance yesterday in a reddit thread and I liked its approach.

So, here I am...


What to Do
What can I do? Do some other exams?

Take Cialis 5mg doctors prescribed to me? Daily or at least when needed with a girl?

I may start the protocol, despite the following doubts:

1. Fasting: I weigh only 57 kg for 1.74 mt. I'm already skinny and cannot get weigh (I tried in different way). I think I can't afford a fasting without seriously compromising my health;

2. Diet: the diet is very strict. I already had a gluten free diet on March-July 2020, substituting gluten with rice. Here in Italy we eat pasta, pizza, bread, a lot. It's quite difficult and may become socially excluding. The same thing for alchool. I want to heal, but I want also a normal life back. At 31 I cannot afford to not going out/party with friends for my life. No cheat allowed sometimes?

3. Supplements and Pump: 21 supplements for testosterone are all necessary? They seem to much and also difficult to get all and to follow the regime; the same for the other daily supplements or the pump of the dick. Don't want to become a pill or pump addicted for my life! Moreover I don't understand the doses of the supplements.

4. Masturbation: I've never been an olympic fapper, but I used to masturbate 3-5 times a weeks (also in order to last more with a girl). Not used so much porn, much more my imagination. It sounds quite unnatural to me to not fap anymore, in particular because I've not a girlfriend right now. I fear I increase my mental separation from my dick.

For sure many other doubts will come. For now, thank you all and in particular to cdNuts for this forum!

[LetsGo]

I guys, I'm new here. Here my story. Sorry if it's long, I'll try being as much short as possible. I'm not and native English speaker: hope this is clear anyway.


Who I am
31 years old, Italian, don't smoke, drink only socially (once a week), no drugs. Height 1.74 meters, weight 57 kg (BMI 18.8).
Quite reflective, emphatetic and sensible character, not the most solar guy on Earth but very sociable and funny when I'm fine. Good success with girls, more due to my head and character than my body (I'm a pretty but skinny guy).


What I took

For prostatitis
5mg/day for 60days of Finasteride in October-November 2019 (Proscar), 320mg/day of Saw Palmetto/Serenoa Repens for 26 days in September 2020


My Symptoms

From late September 2020:

a) Sexual:

a.1) ED/impotence: initially total impotence. Then a bit better. Now so-so. Anyway just a shadow of me few month ago.

a.2) Loss of Libido: some day higher, some day lower.

a.3) Loss of spontaneuos/morning erection: have some nocturnals (in particular I wake up with nocturnal and a stimule to pee).

b) Mental:

b.1) Insomnia: main mental issue. I can fall asleep quite easily, but I wake up after 4-5 hours and can't take sleep back again; the next day I am not particularly tired despite the low amount of hours slept.

b.2) Depression: Now I am quite depressed. Sometimes I cry and see my life ruined, but I think it caused mainly by my symptoms appeared overnight and not a direct effect of the drugs.

b.3) Sense of Disconnection: I don't know if it's sexual, mental, physical, but in general I feel like my head is disconnected from my penis. Also I feel like testicles insensivity.


c) Physical:

c.1) Lower abdomen pain: This is quite scarying. Every day I experiment lower abdomen pain (similar to what you feel when you're kicked in the balls, but much less intense even if more lasting);

c.2) Pain/burning in Perianal Area: some days I experiment pain/burning in perianal area (prostatitis? urinary issue? mental stress which concentrates there?).


My Exams

Visits
I see many andrologists and endocrinologists. Almost all of them said that mine is a phsicological problem. In any case I've not received an aswer to my problem that sounds meaningful to me. They said that Finasteride of 2019 cannot cause effects one year later (even if they agreed that it should have not be prescribed to a 30 years guy), while Serenoa of September 2020 cannot cause these side effects at all.

Exam
I had a magnetic resonance of the pelvic area, ultrasound to penis, scrotum, prostate and urinary apparatus and in all cases seem to be all ok.

I'm waiting for gut microbiota test results.

Hormonal panel (I write down here only the main, if you ask for other I'll add):

1. Testosterone
Strange values. Tested 3 times in 3 different labs (different range values).
29 September (last day of Serenoa): 733 ng/dL (16-753);
7 October: 344 ng/dL (249-836);
21 November: 238 ng/dL (197-670).

2. Free Testosterone
7 October: 9.98 pg/mL (1.00-28.28);
21 November: 13.65 pg/mL (15-50).

3. DHT
7 October: 483 pg/mL (250-990);
21 November: 549 pg/mL (250-990).

4. FSH
29 September: 4.5 mUI/mL (0.7-10.8)
21 November: 5.8 mUI/mL (1.4-18.1)

5. LH
29 September: 3.2 mUI/mL (1.2-10.6)
21 November: 2.0 mUI/mL (1.5-9.3)

6. DHEA-S
17 October: 456 ug/dL (34-570)
21 November: 384 ug/dL (34-570)

7. SHBG
17 October: 43.63 nmol/L (16-80.5)

8. Cortisol
7 October: 22.8 ug/dL (6.2-19.4);
21 November: 23.2 ug/dL (5.27-22.4).

9. 17 Beta Estradiol
7 October: 17.3 pg/mL (27.1-52.2);
21 November: 15.25 pg/mL (11.8-39.8).


What I'm taking

Melatonin 2mg, retard release (Circadin) for insomnia.
Vitamin D trying to free/un-tie some testosterone.

Not taking Cialis 5mg, even if diffent andrologists have prescribed it to me. It may be helpful at least at the beginning? To be honest I fear that it doesn't work: since in this situation I think to PDE5 as the last chance, finding out that they don't work would sink my humor: It's like I prefer to not discover.


My Story

In october/november 2019 I took for 60days 5mg of finasteride (Proscar), for a supposed prostatitis, prescribed by an idiot urologist. No side effect at all. Also after quitting it, I was horny as always and able to get an erection just with texting to a girl during quarantine or flirting verbally with a girl in the sea this August. I wasn't aware at all of its side effect, I trusted in the consultant prescription.

In September 2020 I was having some burning in perianal area and I thought it was my prostate. So I took some pills of saw palmetto/serenoa repens, which I usually used in these cases in the past with no side effects.
I took them for 26 days. I started to note some symptoms on 20 September. In particular I needed more time to get an erection with a girl and I lost it during the third shot (first two went well) and stop the sex.
One week later I have to masturbate for a sperm exam and it remains totally flaccid.
In the next weeks I’ve never been able to make it up anymore.

In October I had no erections at all. I developed the Insomnia I described above.

In November I start to have some erections. In some cases it was quite spontaneous (no fap, nor particular stimulation). I get back the ability to masturbate every now and then.

In December the situation it's rollercasting, but has not returned to the total death of October. By the way I developed the Physical pain I described above. In particular the Lower Abdomen Pain is frightening me a lot (even now I'm typing I feel pain).

I can also admit that there's a psychological aspect and in fact I'm seeing a terapist trained in EMDR. I can also admit that this 2020 has been a difficult year I am at home since february and except for August and September, my life has been a confiment in my bedroom where I smartworking.
By the way I'm pretty sure that the whole thing isn't psychological and the Hormonal values and the pain/feeling I feel are quite objective.
Until 3 months ago I was able to have erection in any condition and whenever I wanted. Never had a defaillance with a girl and always to fuck 3 times in a row. Everything has always worked very well down there. Now I feel like it has betrayed me!

Fortunately I've not developed other major mental issue than Insomnia.

I’m trying to staying calm but the thought that my life is ruined and that I’ll never have a relationship is always in my mind.

Unfortunately I don’t have any relationship right now, so I cannot test my response with other sex. One month ago I had some petting with a girl. I had erections (maybe not good/hard as one time), but I had severe premature ejaculation, jerking off in my underwear without particular stimulation; after one hour we petted again and I was close to shoot again super quickly, so I desisted...

Surfed on PH in October and November but it doesn't help so much. I read there about CdNuts Protocol even if CdNuts is ostracized there (don't know why, they said he is a crook and his protocol is scam: to me, after reading this forum, CdNuts seems a good person). I found out this forum by chance yesterday in a reddit thread and I liked its approach.

So, here I am...


What to Do
What can I do? Do some other exams?

Take Cialis 5mg doctors prescribed to me? Daily or at least when needed with a girl?

I may start the protocol, despite the following doubts:

1. Fasting: I weigh only 57 kg for 1.74 mt. I'm already skinny and cannot get weigh (I tried in different way). I think I can't afford a fasting without seriously compromising my health;

2. Diet: the diet is very strict. I already had a gluten free diet on March-July 2020, substituting gluten with rice. Here in Italy we eat pasta, pizza, bread, a lot. It's quite difficult and may become socially excluding. The same thing for alchool. I want to heal, but I want also a normal life back. At 31 I cannot afford to not going out/party with friends for my life. No cheat allowed sometimes?

3. Supplements and Pump: 21 supplements for testosterone are all necessary? They seem to much and also difficult to get all and to follow the regime; the same for the other daily supplements or the pump of the dick. Don't want to become a pill or pump addicted for my life! Moreover I don't understand the doses of the supplements.

4. Masturbation: I've never been an olympic fapper, but I used to masturbate 3-5 times a weeks (also in order to last more with a girl). Not used so much porn, much more my imagination. It sounds quite unnatural to me to not fap anymore, in particular because I've not a girlfriend right now. I fear I increase my mental separation from my dick.

For sure many other doubts will come. For now, thank you all and in particular to cdNuts for this forum!

Hi Alex! I am a fellow Italian citizen from the USA. (I am a jure sanguinis citizen through my ancestry; I am still learning Italian but it wasn’t required for me to get an Italian passort because I am considered a citizen from birth.)

You found the right place. I would sincerely advise you to forget about PropeciaHelp.com. This message board is where you need to be.

There is still a good chance that you will fully recover without doing anything special, since you seem to be on an upward path. So, there are two options that I think would make sense. The first option would be to jump into the CDsNuts protocol. You could end up having wasted some money on herbs and things, but if it turns out that you would need to do the protocol to recover, then you would recover faster than if you waited. And regardless, the protocol will help you make gains whether you have PFS or your body recovers naturally.

The second option would be to make some changes but not go on the full protocol. You drink alcohol 1 time per week - reduce that to 0 times per week for at least 6 months. Alcohol interferes with recovery from PFS, and so does gluten, so at least adopt that part of the diet protocol. Start meditating for 30 minutes daily (10 mins at first and increase it every week,) and do not allow yourself to have panic thoughts about being single forever. If you start having such thoughts then it is time to meditate again. Build your strength until you can do a weightlifting regime; and if the gyms are closed where you are, then find a way to do workouts in your bedroom. Even if you don’t have PFS, you will do even better with the ladies if you add 10kg of muscle to your frame.

I would not take the Cialis at this point. You should not add more medications like Cialis while your body is fighting hard trying to fix itself. Also, you don’t need any more exams. If you do have PFS then the solution will be the same no matter what the exam results are. And doctors may try to prescribe you drugs, which is not going to help for this situation.

To address your four points:

1) Fasting. You do not have to do a fast to do the protocol, you can do a juice feast instead. You’ll be having 2,000 calories of fresh juice each day, so you will not lose any weight. If you did want to do a water fast, then you would need to do it under medical supersision at a fasting clinic, where they are checking to make sure that you are able to safely continue the fast. In the US this is expensive, I am not sure if there are free fasting clinics in Italy. Either way, I would recommend the juice feast instead because you do not have much fat reserves.

2) Diet. It could be difficult and socially excluding to avoid gluten. If you do have PFS, then unfortunately, you will have to decide whether eating gluten and enjoying alcohol is more important than recovering from PFS. Keep in mind that you would not have to give up gluten for life, only during the protocol. The more you cheat on the diet the longer it would take to heal.

3) The rule for supplements is that you need at least 7 to start. You only take 1 supplement each day, so that you are taking the same supplement once every 7 days. As you save more money, you will buy and add more supplements to the rotation. So now you have 10, and that’s even better. Now you have 13. Now 17, now all 21. Buy what you can afford. It is best if you got 21, because then it takes 21 days for you to take the same supplement a second time, which means that each supplement will have an even more powerful effect. The pump helps preserve and restore your lost size, and erection quality.

4) Masturbation. Try to fap as infrequently as possible. Once a month would probably be okay, but the ideal thing is to find a girlfriend who will be understanding about this. (You are allowed and encouraged to have sex on the protocol.) If your body and mind are filled with lust and desire, that will only help you to heal faster. This is one of the hardest areas for me, even though I cannot feel any sexual pleasure most of the time.

Also keep in mind that once you are fully healed, you would be able to eat pasta and pizza whenever you want, drink whenever you want, stop exercising and lose all the muscles you gained if you want, stop taking the supplements if you want, and masturbate as much as you want, whenever you want. Once you are healed, you’re healed! You would not have to stay on the protocol for life to maintain the benefits; keep only the parts that you want to keep and discard the others. But you can’t do that until you’ve healed, or you will delay your healing.

[Cdsnuts]

Hi Alex! I am a fellow Italian citizen from the USA. (I am a jure sanguinis citizen through my ancestry; I am still learning Italian but it wasn’t required for me to get an Italian passort because I am considered a citizen from birth.)

You found the right place. I would sincerely advise you to forget about PropeciaHelp.com. This message board is where you need to be.

There is still a good chance that you will fully recover without doing anything special, since you seem to be on an upward path. So, there are two options that I think would make sense. The first option would be to jump into the CDsNuts protocol. You could end up having wasted some money on herbs and things, but if it turns out that you would need to do the protocol to recover, then you would recover faster than if you waited. And regardless, the protocol will help you make gains whether you have PFS or your body recovers naturally.

The second option would be to make some changes but not go on the full protocol. You drink alcohol 1 time per week - reduce that to 0 times per week for at least 6 months. Alcohol interferes with recovery from PFS, and so does gluten, so at least adopt that part of the diet protocol. Start meditating for 30 minutes daily (10 mins at first and increase it every week,) and do not allow yourself to have panic thoughts about being single forever. If you start having such thoughts then it is time to meditate again. Build your strength until you can do a weightlifting regime; and if the gyms are closed where you are, then find a way to do workouts in your bedroom. Even if you don’t have PFS, you will do even better with the ladies if you add 10kg of muscle to your frame.

I would not take the Cialis at this point. You should not add more medications like Cialis while your body is fighting hard trying to fix itself. Also, you don’t need any more exams. If you do have PFS then the solution will be the same no matter what the exam results are. And doctors may try to prescribe you drugs, which is not going to help for this situation.

To address your four points:

1) Fasting. You do not have to do a fast to do the protocol, you can do a juice feast instead. You’ll be having 2,000 calories of fresh juice each day, so you will not lose any weight. If you did want to do a water fast, then you would need to do it under medical supersision at a fasting clinic, where they are checking to make sure that you are able to safely continue the fast. In the US this is expensive, I am not sure if there are free fasting clinics in Italy. Either way, I would recommend the juice feast instead because you do not have much fat reserves.

2) Diet. It could be difficult and socially excluding to avoid gluten. If you do have PFS, then unfortunately, you will have to decide whether eating gluten and enjoying alcohol is more important than recovering from PFS. Keep in mind that you would not have to give up gluten for life, only during the protocol. The more you cheat on the diet the longer it would take to heal.

3) The rule for supplements is that you need at least 7 to start. You only take 1 supplement each day, so that you are taking the same supplement once every 7 days. As you save more money, you will buy and add more supplements to the rotation. So now you have 10, and that’s even better. Now you have 13. Now 17, now all 21. Buy what you can afford. It is best if you got 21, because then it takes 21 days for you to take the same supplement a second time, which means that each supplement will have an even more powerful effect. The pump helps preserve and restore your lost size, and erection quality.

4) Masturbation. Try to fap as infrequently as possible. Once a month would probably be okay, but the ideal thing is to find a girlfriend who will be understanding about this. (You are allowed and encouraged to have sex on the protocol.) If your body and mind are filled with lust and desire, that will only help you to heal faster. This is one of the hardest areas for me, even though I cannot feel any sexual pleasure most of the time.

Also keep in mind that once you are fully healed, you would be able to eat pasta and pizza whenever you want, drink whenever you want, stop exercising and lose all the muscles you gained if you want, stop taking the supplements if you want, and masturbate as much as you want, whenever you want. Once you are healed, you’re healed! You would not have to stay on the protocol for life to maintain the benefits; keep only the parts that you want to keep and discard the others. But you can’t do that until you’ve healed, or you will delay your healing.

Great post. Dead on.

The only thing I would add to this is that it wouldn't be a waste to run the herbs regardless of whether you have PFS or not. It wouldn't be a waste to do anything on the protocol because it all adds to your bodies vitality regardless of your current health.

[Holistic]

Hey man. Welcome. You landed in the right place. Did you get your microbiota test back?

[Alex_Italiano]

Hi there, no, I've not had back gut microbiota test yet. Maybe next week.

Last weeks were quite good.
Slight improvement in sleep, erection and general mood.

Before Christmas I had one day where the dick stayed erected for hours. A full, almost painful erection. Very strange.

I'm trying to exercise a bit, take cold shower/cold bidet, eat gluten free.

In the last two.days, however, all the improvements have gone away again in two days. I falled back in desperation.
No sleep and no sexual drive.
Crying and hopeless.

Hope you all a great new Year

[Alex_Italiano]

Is It possible that this new total collapse of the slight improvements of December is due to start of exercising (dumbbell, bench, crunch, little more)??

[LetsGo]

Is It possible that this new total collapse of the slight improvements of December is due to start of exercising (dumbbell, bench, crunch, little more)??

I do not think so. There will be MANY ups and downs along the way and there is not always. clear reason for each turn. Exercising will only help you.

[Alex_Italiano]

Wish only to not screw all my life.
At least I would like to stay sane enough to work and have a quite normal life. This is my minimum. Up to now, is impossible

[Cdsnuts]

Wish only to not screw all my life.
At least I would like to stay sane enough to work and have a quite normal life. This is my minimum. Up to now, is impossible

I will tell you what I tell EVERYONE that comes to this site.

You WILL be alive again, IF you put in the necessary work. It's going to take time. In regards to worrying about your social life....do yourself a favor. Take the time now to get this under control because if not, you will just be in the same place you are now two years from now wishing you would have just stuck it out and got it done. You're still young. I know it's hard, but it's worth more then anything you can buy.

I say this because I wasted alot of my own time fucking around the same way, as many of you that I've spoken to know. I was a huge partier. Set myself back years. That's why I'm adamant about staying sober and doing it right. The only person you're gonna be fooling doing anything else is yourself.

[Alex_Italiano]

I got your point Cdsnuts, but I would like to have my normal life back again. With party, a beer, etc... otherwise is not life if you cannot enjoy these simple things.

Moreover I fear I cannot jump into your protocol. Cannot feast, cannot purchase all those herbs from America, cannot train regularly... it's all a matter of time. I should be unemployed maybe...
Too much demanding I fear...

[Cdsnuts]

I got your point Cdsnuts, but I would like to have my normal life back again. With party, a beer, etc... otherwise is not life if you cannot enjoy these simple things.

Moreover I fear I cannot jump into your protocol. Cannot feast, cannot purchase all those herbs from America, cannot train regularly... it's all a matter of time. I should be unemployed maybe...
Too much demanding I fear...

Well, you will have your normal life back if you can do what you have to do. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do to help you with your fears and logistics.

[Alex_Italiano]

Hi there, I emailed Lost Empire Erbs, but they don't ship to Italy.

May I buy the same supplements somewhere else from here in Europe?

Thanks!

[Maxout777]

Source them from a reliable source that ships to your country. I’m sure there’s some resources out there that call out such vendors. Try Barlowe’s, BulkSupplements, Nootropics Depot just to name a few.

And please cut the shit on the “I need a beer” because I love a beer more than anyone and drink fairly regularly (weekly or more) now that I’ve been back in good health - but let me tell you, you don’t NEED the beer. There are so many fantastic 0.0 beers now that I didn’t have the option to have with friends during my journey. My suggestion is just have those, and say you have a major liver issue (not a lie) that the doc told you to be sober for to let heal. If your associates can’t let that slide, find new ones.

[Turnover25]

Source them from a reliable source that ships to your country. I’m sure there’s some resources out there that call out such vendors. Try Barlowe’s, BulkSupplements, Nootropics Depot just to name a few.

And please cut the shit on the “I need a beer” because I love a beer more than anyone and drink fairly regularly (weekly or more) now that I’ve been back in good health - but let me tell you, you don’t NEED the beer. There are so many fantastic 0.0 beers now that I didn’t have the option to have with friends during my journey. My suggestion is just have those, and say you have a major liver issue (not a lie) that the doc told you to be sober for to let heal. If your associates can’t let that slide, find new ones.

Did you do anything specific for liver health during recovery? I’ve been starting to think liver toxicity is a big part of this. I just started TUDCA. But I feel a little weird, also noticed I began dreaming more frequently.

[Alex_Italiano]

Dear Maxout777, first of all, thank you very much. These kind of practical supports is what I need most in these confused times.

Love your explanation about alchool, I will use. But not alchoolic beer contains gluten anyway, I think I should avoid it, correct?

In my open post I posted my blood values, with Estradiol too. And it is quite low, it seems. Do you agree? Should I increase it? Is alchool dangerous also with such low level of estradiol? Please consider that when I was ok, I drank 1/2 beers or a glass of wine once a week maximum: I'm not a drinking guy.

Thanks a lot you all.

[Maxout777]

Did you do anything specific for liver health during recovery? I’ve been starting to think liver toxicity is a big part of this. I just started TUDCA. But I feel a little weird, also noticed I began dreaming more frequently.

Not specifically besides the juice fast and abstaining from alcohol really. I took TUDCA after my first cycle of R Andro for a month or so, so maybe that helped some. Post-PFS, I started doing liver flushes. I really recommend these, I have no gallbladder so I always have issues in this area relative to digestion and bile flow. It's the Andreas Moritz one, and you can do one about once/twice a month. CD doesn't list them on the protocol but there's no reason why it wouldn't work while on it - just malic acid, olive oil, and Epsom salts.

[Maxout777]

Dear Maxout777, first of all, thank you very much. These kind of practical supports is what I need most in these confused times.

Love your explanation about alchool, I will use. But not alchoolic beer contains gluten anyway, I think I should avoid it, correct?

In my open post I posted my blood values, with Estradiol too. And it is quite low, it seems. Do you agree? Should I increase it? Is alchool dangerous also with such low level of estradiol? Please consider that when I was ok, I drank 1/2 beers or a glass of wine once a week maximum: I'm not a drinking guy.

Thanks a lot you all.

Great question - and one I always wondered about. From what I've read, a lot of light beers don't test positive on gluten tests. They are below 20 ppm, and they just choose to not label themselves as gluten free due to the potential lawsuits, etc. that can come with that (and they don't want to add lines that are dedicated to only producing "gluten free"). There's a great website here that tests popular beers and the associated result: Gluten in Beer (http://gluteninbeer.blogspot.com)

For example, I can drink Corona Light, Heineken (they have the best popular 0.0 beer, btw IMO), Guinness (even though it fails the test here, apparently they use a specific grain that has low gliaden), Carlsberg, Miller Lite, and Pacifico without getting the "gluten" effect. Those are really my staples, mainly Guinness and Carlsberg in the winter and Corona and Pacifico in the summer.

[Alex_Italiano]

Thanks a lot!

As far as the supplement, I don't understand if powder form or capsule form are the same or if powder one is better. What about? Of course capsules are way more easy to handle even when out of home.

[Maxout777]

Thanks a lot!

As far as the supplement, I don't understand if powder form or capsule form are the same or if powder one is better. What about? Of course capsules are way more easy to handle even when out of home.

Powder IMO is better, but capsules are great for convenience. Especially if you eat out, travel at all, etc. You can always buy powders and cap them yourselves with a relatively cheap machine.

[Turnover25]

Not specifically besides the juice fast and abstaining from alcohol really. I took TUDCA after my first cycle of R Andro for a month or so, so maybe that helped some. Post-PFS, I started doing liver flushes. I really recommend these, I have no gallbladder so I always have issues in this area relative to digestion and bile flow. It's the Andreas Moritz one, and you can do one about once/twice a month. CD doesn't list them on the protocol but there's no reason why it wouldn't work while on it - just malic acid, olive oil, and Epsom salts.

Is that a product you buy, or do you make it yourself?

[Maxout777]

Is that a product you buy, or do you make it yourself?

Just a combination of those supplements in a procedure. See below link, it should include most of what you need to run it.

https://www.acam.org/blogpost/1092863/216480/The-Amazing-Liver-Cleanse--a-Powerful-Tool-to-Improve-Your-Health--by-Andreas-Moritz

I don't do the apple juice, tea or broth portion. Just the malic acid, epsom salt, olive oil portion.

[Turnover25]

Just a combination of those supplements in a procedure. See below link, it should include most of what you need to run it.

https://www.acam.org/blogpost/1092863/216480/The-Amazing-Liver-Cleanse--a-Powerful-Tool-to-Improve-Your-Health--by-Andreas-Moritz

I don't do the apple juice, tea or broth portion. Just the malic acid, epsom salt, olive oil portion.

Ahh, I see. I’ll look it over today while I’m bored at my desk. Thanks buddy.

[Ratchet]

Hey turnover buddy, just dropping in. Run a two month TUDCA cycle and make sure you don’t drink at all while doing it. I did the nutricost 250mg 2x daily with breakfast and dinner. I didn’t notice anything on it except for some looser poops, but I started with AST/ALTs that slowly climbed from <20 to the 60s after PFS. I just got bloods done and now they are both back to 15. Don’t expect any acute relief or improvements, but healing the liver is definitely a cornerstone of dealing with PFS for most and I know the TUDCA did contribute to my well being. Hope all is well on your end.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey turnover buddy, just dropping in. Run a two month TUDCA cycle and make sure you don’t drink at all while doing it. I did the nutricost 250mg 2x daily with breakfast and dinner. I didn’t notice anything on it except for some looser poops, but I started with AST/ALTs that slowly climbed from <20 to the 60s after PFS. I just got bloods done and now they are both back to 15. Don’t expect any acute relief or improvements, but healing the liver is definitely a cornerstone of dealing with PFS for most and I know the TUDCA did contribute to my well being. Hope all is well on your end.

This is one of the major reasons why the cleanse in the beginning of the protocol is so important. It's also why the longer you can cleanse, the better off your foundation will be to build upon.

TUDCA can be used for a nice sweep of the liver without too much to worry about.