R Andro + 4 Andro

[TubZy]

Does anyone have any logs of people improving or being cured from the combo of R andro (androsterone) and 4 andro?

I know many post saw palmetto people have benefitted from it but not sure about PFS specific people.

I have a few bottles of both and deciding on either high dose R andro only or R andro + 4 andro but wanted to get some insight.

[Maxout777]

I credit it a lot to my success as you know by now I’m sure. I’m saw palmetto though. Only other PFS guy I know who tried it was Swill. He didn’t enjoy it too much versus R-Andro alone. I haven’t heard from him in a minute, though.

Hope you’re well my man. Been a minute.

[Swill]

I credit it a lot to my success as you know by now I’m sure. I’m saw palmetto though. Only other PFS guy I know who tried it was Swill. He didn’t enjoy it too much versus R-Andro alone. I haven’t heard from him in a minute, though.

Hope you’re well my man. Been a minute.

Holy shit thats freaky, I was genuinely doing a home workout and this message board popped into my head... finished up and picked up the phone and had an email about your menton Maxout777 ! Im good man, yourself? It has been a damn long time! Hope all the old brothers are well in this weird piece of time we find ourselves in!

And to answer TubZy, I personally got more from 4Andro solo that I did from the stack, but mileage seems to vary with everyone so I wouldn't be shocked if you saw benefit with it.

I'm heading out now but will try to check in again in the coming days :)

[Maxout777]

Holy shit thats freaky, I was genuinely doing a home workout and this message board popped into my head... finished up and picked up the phone and had an email about your menton Maxout777 ! Im good man, yourself? It has been a damn long time! Hope all the old brothers are well in this weird piece of time we find ourselves in!

And to answer TubZy, I personally got more from 4Andro solo that I did from the stack, but mileage seems to vary with everyone so I wouldn't be shocked if you saw benefit with it.

I'm heading out now but will try to check in again in the coming days :)

My man! Good to hear from you. I’m doing as well as I can in these times.

Hope to hear a good update from ya!

[TubZy]

I credit it a lot to my success as you know by now I’m sure. I’m saw palmetto though. Only other PFS guy I know who tried it was Swill. He didn’t enjoy it too much versus R-Andro alone. I haven’t heard from him in a minute, though.

Hope you’re well my man. Been a minute.

Yeah man - your log is the golden standard template for these two prohormones. I have 10 bottles of R Andro so I figure I do something with them haha.

For some reason, all the topical versions make me feel like crap compared to orals. I don't really know why unless it could be the byproducts in the solutions. Finding pure androsterone is like a gem these days seems like everyone discontinued it orally for some reason.

[TubZy]

Holy shit thats freaky, I was genuinely doing a home workout and this message board popped into my head... finished up and picked up the phone and had an email about your menton Maxout777 ! Im good man, yourself? It has been a damn long time! Hope all the old brothers are well in this weird piece of time we find ourselves in!

And to answer TubZy, I personally got more from 4Andro solo that I did from the stack, but mileage seems to vary with everyone so I wouldn't be shocked if you saw benefit with it.

I'm heading out now but will try to check in again in the coming days :)

Awesome dude. Which 4 Andro did you run and dose/timeline? Did you feel better while on it and it stuck into PCT?

The reason I'm asking is because I want to do a long 12 week cycle but I don't want to add 4 Andro in if I potentially can feel worse after getting off. Kinda be a waste. I know the saw palmetto guys do fine w/ 4 Andro but haven't heard too much on the PFS side.

I ran R andro a couple years back and was fine after ceasing it so I know I'm okay there.

[Cdsnuts]

Awesome dude. Which 4 Andro did you run and dose/timeline? Did you feel better while on it and it stuck into PCT?

The reason I'm asking is because I want to do a long 12 week cycle but I don't want to add 4 Andro in if I potentially can feel worse after getting off. Kinda be a waste. I know the saw palmetto guys do fine w/ 4 Andro but haven't heard too much on the PFS side.

I ran R andro a couple years back and was fine after ceasing it so I know I'm okay there.

I've run four andro many times.......that being said, I was WELL on my way to the road of recovery, so take it for for what it's worth.

[Rromansingh]

I had this side effects for almost 2 years.
From December 2017 till mid of 2019.
I thought to fight it back in January 2019
and with in 7-8 month i was fully recovered.
I know how its feel and here to help you guys. If anyone needs any suggestions or help for free please contact me.
You can use kik ank03.
I am in India.

[Vahn]

I had this side effects for almost 2 years.
From December 2017 till mid of 2019.
I thought to fight it back in January 2019
and with in 7-8 month i was fully recovered.
I know how its feel and here to help you guys. If anyone needs any suggestions or help for free please contact me.
You can use kik ank03.
I am in India.

Congrats man! Would be cool to read your full story in the recovery section ;)

[Cdsnuts]

I had this side effects for almost 2 years.
From December 2017 till mid of 2019.
I thought to fight it back in January 2019
and with in 7-8 month i was fully recovered.
I know how its feel and here to help you guys. If anyone needs any suggestions or help for free please contact me.
You can use kik ank03.
I am in India.

First post....welcome. Did you run the protocol?

If so please make a recovery post in the recovery section.

[Marduk]

I had this side effects for almost 2 years.
From December 2017 till mid of 2019.
I thought to fight it back in January 2019
and with in 7-8 month i was fully recovered.
I know how its feel and here to help you guys. If anyone needs any suggestions or help for free please contact me.
You can use kik ank03.
I am in India.

Hey man congrats
You should write about your recovery and how it went, it would be really helpful to everyone here.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey man congrats
You should write about your recovery and how it went, it would be really helpful to everyone here.

He was a salesman.......he got booted.

[TubZy]

I've run four andro many times.......that being said, I was WELL on my way to the road of recovery, so take it for for what it's worth.

Yeah man - saw your log on it I think your were a fan of it if I remember but certain doses blew you up like a tick lol.

What I noticed so far for me:

Androsterone increases my fatigue a bit due to the GABA agonism but anxiety goes down and feel a better. This is at doses 600mg - 1 gram total per day split into three doses. Don't feel much mentally anything below 600mg per day TBH.

Epiandro and 4 Andro both lift fatigue but feel more agitated and anxiety when I do use them even in conjunction with Androsterone.

[Turnover25]

Yeah man - saw your log on it I think your were a fan of it if I remember but certain doses blew you up like a tick lol.

What I noticed so far for me:

Androsterone increases my fatigue a bit due to the GABA agonism but anxiety goes down and feel a better. This is at doses 600mg - 1 gram total per day split into three doses. Don't feel much mentally anything below 600mg per day TBH.

Epiandro and 4 Andro both lift fatigue but feel more agitated and anxiety when I do use them even in conjunction with Androsterone.

You’ve recovered already, no? Just curious. Haven’t seen any posts from you in quite some time.

[TubZy]

You’ve recovered already, no? Just curious. Haven’t seen any posts from you in quite some time.

If I'd have to put a number on it I'd say about 85% recovered. Mainly just mental symptoms remaining.

Been posting on HS for a while and TBH I forgot about this place.

[Turnover25]

If I'd have to put a number on it I'd say about 85% recovered. Mainly just mental symptoms remaining.

Been posting on HS for a while and TBH I forgot about this place.

The neurological side of this is a bitch and a half. That’s mainly what I’m left with also. Good luck to you my man.

And if you chose to stick around a bit I’m sure nobody would complain, your shared knowledge would be greatly beneficial for this place.

[TubZy]

The neurological side of this is a bitch and a half. That’s mainly what I’m left with also. Good luck to you my man.

And if you chose to stick around a bit I’m sure nobody would complain, your shared knowledge would be greatly beneficial for this place.

Yeah man definitely - good luck to you as well.

What I found what totally reverses my mental symptoms are stimulants like caffeine pills (not coffee) and nicotine/preworkouts etc. but I feel like shit the following day before a return back to mental baseline again. Not sure if you had the same experience.

[MungYarlon]

Yeah man definitely - good luck to you as well.

What I found what totally reverses my mental symptoms are stimulants like caffeine pills (not coffee) and nicotine/preworkouts etc. but I feel like shit the following day before a return back to mental baseline again. Not sure if you had the same experience.

Out of interest, what is the reasoning in using things like androsterone for mental benefits in lieu of things which help with allopregnanolone?

[Turnover25]

Out of interest, what is the reasoning in using things like androsterone for mental benefits in lieu of things which help with allopregnanolone?

Have you run any androsterone cycles? They’re a godsend for mental sides. I’d think it had to do with fixing the root cause which would be 5-ar inhibition, leading to higher allo down the road. treating the root issue and not the symptom so to speak.

[Turnover25]

Yeah man definitely - good luck to you as well.

What I found what totally reverses my mental symptoms are stimulants like caffeine pills (not coffee) and nicotine/preworkouts etc. but I feel like shit the following day before a return back to mental baseline again. Not sure if you had the same experience.

We have someone who’s almost recovered who says the same, nicotine basically reverses what he has left. I haven’t tried. I get a similar effect from l theanine mood wise, but for brain fog nothing has ever lifted it completely but androsterone cycles are what had the most impact on it so far.

[TubZy]

Out of interest, what is the reasoning in using things like androsterone for mental benefits in lieu of things which help with allopregnanolone?

Sure - I'll give you my take and try to make it short.

First off androsterone is a neurosteroid. We know for a fact that finasteride lowers androsterone levels in the body and brain. Androsterone is also a GABA-A agonist just like allopregnanolone is. This means that if the brain is under some sort of stress androsterone can act as a GABA-A helper to agonize or stimulate that receptor (allopregnanolone does the same). Allopregnanolone itself isn't that important it just happens to the neurosteroid that takes the biggest hit from fin but plenty of other hormones are negatively impacted as well. All of these GABA-A agonist were being inhibited with fin which causes the GABA-A receptor to upregulate along with androgen receptor in the brain to upregulate.

What makes androsterone special though is it seems to replace a lot of the other key areas that finasteride negatively impacted - specifically in the brain and body. Androsterone increases the brain levels of androsterone, epiandrosterone, 5α-dihydrotestosterone, and androstandiol.

So we know that finasteride blocked GABA, lowered DHT in the entire body including the brain, raises serum estrogen etc.

Androsterone does the total opposite of what fin does in all areas meaning instead of blocking GABA you are agonizing it now (causing it to downregulate), instead of lowering DHT you are increasing it in the body and brain (causing the AR to downregulate), instead of raising estrogen you are lowering it etc. So whether its a receptor issue or something else you are pushing yourself in the right direction.

To pinpoint exactly which area is the root cause I don't know but in laymans terms androsterone is the best to cover all areas that fin screwed up.

References:

https://i.imgur.com/ZyWO6Ct.png
Psychomotor and rewarding properties of the neurosteroids dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate and androsterone: effects on monoamine and steroid metabolism - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22508085/)
Plasma androsterone/epiandrosterone sulfates as markers of 5 alpha-reductase activity: effect of finasteride in normal men - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9292937/)
PayPerView: Effects of Subchronic Finasteride Treatment and Withdrawal on Neuroactive Steroid Levels and Their Receptors in the Male Rat Brain - Karger Publishers (https://www.karger.com/Article/PDF/442982)

[Turnover25]

Sure - I'll give you my take and try to make it short.

First off androsterone is a neurosteroid. We know for a fact that finasteride lowers androsterone levels in the body and brain. Androsterone is also a GABA-A agonist just like allopregnanolone is. This means that if the brain is under some sort of stress androsterone can act as a GABA-A helper to agonize or stimulate that receptor (allopregnanolone does the same). Allopregnanolone itself isn't that important it just happens to the neurosteroid that takes the biggest hit from fin but plenty of other hormones are negatively impacted as well. All of these GABA-A agonist were being inhibited with fin which causes the GABA-A receptor to upregulate along with androgen receptor in the brain to upregulate.

What makes androsterone special though is it seems to replace a lot of the other key areas that finasteride negatively impacted - specifically in the brain and body. Androsterone increases the brain levels of androsterone, epiandrosterone, 5α-dihydrotestosterone, and androstandiol.

So we know that finasteride blocked GABA, lowered DHT in the entire body including the brain, raises serum estrogen etc.

Androsterone does the total opposite of what fin does in all areas meaning instead of blocking GABA you are agonizing it now (causing it to downregulate), instead of lowering DHT you are increasing it in the body and brain (causing the AR to downregulate), instead of raising estrogen you are lowering it etc. So whether its a receptor issue or something else you are pushing yourself in the right direction.

To pinpoint exactly which area is the root cause I don't know but in laymans terms androsterone is the best to cover all areas that fin screwed up.

References:

https://i.imgur.com/ZyWO6Ct.png
Psychomotor and rewarding properties of the neurosteroids dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate and androsterone: effects on monoamine and steroid metabolism - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22508085/)
Plasma androsterone/epiandrosterone sulfates as markers of 5 alpha-reductase activity: effect of finasteride in normal men - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9292937/)
PayPerView: Effects of Subchronic Finasteride Treatment and Withdrawal on Neuroactive Steroid Levels and Their Receptors in the Male Rat Brain - Karger Publishers (https://www.karger.com/Article/PDF/442982)

In regards to androsterone being the best, how about epiandrosterone and the differences? Is one better? I’ve ran cycles of both and noticed different things from each. Do they essentially work the same?

[TubZy]

In regards to androsterone being the best, how about epiandrosterone and the differences? Is one better? I’ve ran cycles of both and noticed different things from each. Do they essentially work the same?

Androsterone is the Alpha isomer and Epiandrosterone is the Beta Isomer.

Epiandro is more stimulating and acts as a GABA antagonist while Androsterone is a GABA agonist which is more calming. Androsterone is also much more androgenic.

They work the same in the sense they both can convert to DHT through the backdoor pathway but the molecules itself have different direct effects.

Also, in the study I linked above - direct androsterone supplementation increased epiandrosterone in the brain - so you are still technically still getting an increased conversion to epiandro even if you are just supplementing androsterone alone.

From my personal experimentation with epiandro and I think CD had the same but it killed my libido a bit and made me irritated/aggressive without the androgenic properties along with muscle spasms/hearth palps. It basically felt similar to a stimulant for me and I felt weird on it.

I think high doses of androsterone only is the best and that is what I'm trialing now and it seems to be the best especially for mental issues - at least for me.

[Turnover25]

Androsterone is the Alpha isomer and Epiandrosterone is the Beta Isomer.

Epiandro is more stimulating and acts as a GABA antagonist while Androsterone is a GABA agonist which is more calming. Androsterone is also much more androgenic.

They work the same in the sense they both can convert to DHT through the backdoor pathway but the molecules itself have different direct effects.

Also, in the study I linked above - direct androsterone supplementation increased epiandrosterone in the brain - so you are still technically still getting an increased conversion to epiandro even if you are just supplementing androsterone alone.

From my personal experimentation with epiandro and I think CD had the same but it killed my libido a bit and made me irritated/aggressive without the androgenic properties along with muscle spasms/hearth palps. It basically felt similar to a stimulant for me and I felt weird on it.

I think high doses of androsterone only is the best and that is what I'm trialing now and it seems to be the best especially for mental issues - at least for me.

Interesting. Thanks for the input bro. I noticed pretty big differences between the 2 as well. Just began my 3rd cycle this morning so we will see how this plays out.

Just curious, do you still do the protocol advised here? Diet, cold showers, herbs, sunlight, etc? I’ve never really visited hack so I don’t know what goes on over there.

[Cdsnuts]

If I'd have to put a number on it I'd say about 85% recovered. Mainly just mental symptoms remaining.

Been posting on HS for a while and TBH I forgot about this place.

Like you could really forget about SS.....come Tubz.....lol

[TubZy]

Interesting. Thanks for the input bro. I noticed pretty big differences between the 2 as well. Just began my 3rd cycle this morning so we will see how this plays out.

Just curious, do you still do the protocol advised here? Diet, cold showers, herbs, sunlight, etc? I’ve never really visited hack so I don’t know what goes on over there.

Yeah most of it besides the T boosting herbs right now since I'm on androsterone and I plan to stay on for a pretty long time at a high dose. Which type/brand of andro prohormone supplement are using now?

Regarding Hack, similar to here just with some more experimental stuff - CD protocol is advised there as a recommended protocol too.

- - - Updated - - -


Like you could really forget about SS.....come Tubz.....lol

:o

[LetsGo]

I haven’t been able to find anything that has andro but no epiandro. When I use epiandro at 8:15 AM, it keeps me awake until 3:30 AM. (I’m extremely sensitive to all stimulants.)

[Cdsnuts]

I haven’t been able to find anything that has andro but no epiandro. When I use epiandro at 8:15 AM, it keeps me awake until 3:30 AM. (I’m extremely sensitive to all stimulants.)

Super R Andro Topical Cream by Iron Mag Labs (DHT) - GymNTonic.com (http://stores.gymntonic.com/super-r-andro-topical-cream-by-iron-mag-labs-dht/)

Use Code: cdsnuts.

I'm sensitive to epi as well. I've heard rave reviews about this product and I'm going to personally run it this summer. This product should have the opposite effect on you. It SHOULD calm you down and HELP you sleep because of gaba agonism.

FYI, that code works for ANY product in this store. There are other helpful ones there as well you could get into if you pleased.

[Turnover25]

Super R Andro Topical Cream by Iron Mag Labs (DHT) - GymNTonic.com (http://stores.gymntonic.com/super-r-andro-topical-cream-by-iron-mag-labs-dht/)

Use Code: cdsnuts.

I'm sensitive to epi as well. I've heard rave reviews about this product and I'm going to personally run it this summer. This product should have the opposite effect on you. It SHOULD calm you down and HELP you sleep because of gaba agonism.

FYI, that code works for ANY product in this store. There are other helpful ones there as well you could get into if you pleased.

This is huge

- - - Updated - - -


I haven’t been able to find anything that has andro but no epiandro. When I use epiandro at 8:15 AM, it keeps me awake until 3:30 AM. (I’m extremely sensitive to all stimulants.)

For what it’s worth, my first cycle a lot of the time I slept like 3 hours a night. It’s all documented in the thread I believe. But I kept at it and finished it and the benefits were great and my I could sleep fine after cycle.

[Cdsnuts]

This is huge

- - - Updated - - -



For what it’s worth, my first cycle a lot of the time I slept like 3 hours a night. It’s all documented in the thread I believe. But I kept at it and finished it and the benefits were great and my I could sleep fine after cycle.

Yeah.....it will eventually catch up, brain wise, sleep wise, etc. Some people are just a little too juiced up on the epi. This product will NOT do that.

Don't get me wrong, they both work exactly the same at increasing 5ar, so no worries there. Also, most guys I know prefer androsterone to epi as well. Now, we have choices. The end result will still be the same

[Mojo]

Super R Andro Topical Cream by Iron Mag Labs (DHT) - GymNTonic.com (http://stores.gymntonic.com/super-r-andro-topical-cream-by-iron-mag-labs-dht/)

Use Code: cdsnuts.

I'm sensitive to epi as well. I've heard rave reviews about this product and I'm going to personally run it this summer. This product should have the opposite effect on you. It SHOULD calm you down and HELP you sleep because of gaba agonism.

FYI, that code works for ANY product in this store. There are other helpful ones there as well you could get into if you pleased.

Trying to order but the site bugs out for me on the payment step?
Its not showing anything, tried multiple browsers.

- edit- Ok, this bit is in their shipping section:

We can ship to virtually any address in the world. The customer is responsible for any and all International shipping fees. Note that there are restrictions on some products, and some products cannot be shipped to international destinations. In order to complete an International order, you must contact us via EMAIL: (orders@gymntonic.com) and we will estimate and set up a way to pay for each order. We are not responsible for orders that are seized by CUSTOMS, and we are not responsible to know whether or not a supplement is legal in your particular Country.

So if you are not from the states you have to mail em.

[Cdsnuts]

Trying to order but the site bugs out for me on the payment step?
Its not showing anything, tried multiple browsers.

- edit- Ok, this bit is in their shipping section:

We can ship to virtually any address in the world. The customer is responsible for any and all International shipping fees. Note that there are restrictions on some products, and some products cannot be shipped to international destinations. In order to complete an International order, you must contact us via EMAIL: (orders@gymntonic.com) and we will estimate and set up a way to pay for each order. We are not responsible for orders that are seized by CUSTOMS, and we are not responsible to know whether or not a supplement is legal in your particular Country.

So if you are not from the states you have to mail em.

Did you get it? Or are you ordering from out of country? I have to get the bugs worked out if there still are any.....please let me know

[Mojo]

Did you get it? Or are you ordering from out of country? I have to get the bugs worked out if there still are any.....please let me know

No, but I am ordering from Europe so that might throw a spanner in the works.

Did send a mail.

I'm gonna be honest I'm not sure I am supposed to be able to buy this in the EU. But I did receive the UH from Iconic so...

Also tried replying to your PM but apparently you are a very popular guy with inbox issues ;-)

[LetsGo]

No, but I am ordering from Europe so that might throw a spanner in the works.

Did send a mail.

I'm gonna be honest I'm not sure I am supposed to be able to buy this in the EU. But I did receive the UH from Iconic so...

Also tried replying to your PM but apparently you are a very popular guy with inbox issues ;-)

Ordering from the EU would definitely count as out of country :p By out of country, CD meant outside of the USA.

I’m ordering from within the US and I also got a message that they’re not accepting credit cards right now, so I don’t think this is an EU thing.

[Cdsnuts]

No, but I am ordering from Europe so that might throw a spanner in the works.

Did send a mail.

I'm gonna be honest I'm not sure I am supposed to be able to buy this in the EU. But I did receive the UH from Iconic so...

Also tried replying to your PM but apparently you are a very popular guy with inbox issues ;-)

Clleared my inbox.....you should be able to reach me now. I can help you out if you haven't done so yet.....i'll expedite everything.....it'll be quicker that way.

[Turnover25]

Androsterone is the Alpha isomer and Epiandrosterone is the Beta Isomer.

Epiandro is more stimulating and acts as a GABA antagonist while Androsterone is a GABA agonist which is more calming. Androsterone is also much more androgenic.

They work the same in the sense they both can convert to DHT through the backdoor pathway but the molecules itself have different direct effects.

Also, in the study I linked above - direct androsterone supplementation increased epiandrosterone in the brain - so you are still technically still getting an increased conversion to epiandro even if you are just supplementing androsterone alone.

From my personal experimentation with epiandro and I think CD had the same but it killed my libido a bit and made me irritated/aggressive without the androgenic properties along with muscle spasms/hearth palps. It basically felt similar to a stimulant for me and I felt weird on it.

I think high doses of androsterone only is the best and that is what I'm trialing now and it seems to be the best especially for mental issues - at least for me.

Actually, TubZy just answered your question. Here you go MarkPfs

[Cdsnuts]

Actually, TubZy just answered your question. Here you go MarkPfs

I thought Mojo asked the question?

And thanks @Tubz

[Crashed]

At the risk of asking a redundant question; is this stuff suppressive? Im interested in purchasing and running this stuff. also does it affect thyroid at all? do gains from it last?

[TubZy]

At the risk of asking a redundant question; is this stuff suppressive? Im interested in purchasing and running this stuff. also does it affect thyroid at all? do gains from it last?

Androsterone is very very mild in terms of suppression.

4 andro can be more suppressive but in general they are not super suppressive.

Androsterone mimics thyroid hormone and stimulates metabolic rate by increasing oxygen consumption. So it will have a "hyperthyroid" like effect to an extent.

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajplegacy.1966.210.1.7?journalCode=ajplegacy

[Cdsnuts]

Androsterone is very very mild in terms of suppression.

4 andro can be more suppressive but in general they are not super suppressive.

Androsterone mimics thyroid hormone and stimulates metabolic rate by increasing oxygen consumption. So it will have a "hyperthyroid" like effect to an extent.

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajplegacy.1966.210.1.7?journalCode=ajplegacy

This ^^^^^^^^

[Crashed]

Androsterone is very very mild in terms of suppression.

4 andro can be more suppressive but in general they are not super suppressive.

Androsterone mimics thyroid hormone and stimulates metabolic rate by increasing oxygen consumption. So it will have a "hyperthyroid" like effect to an extent.

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajplegacy.1966.210.1.7?journalCode=ajplegacy

so it will increase my TSH if I run it?

[Cdsnuts]

so it will increase my TSH if I run it?

Do some research.......

What we are telling you is it's safe to run all around the board. It's not going to have a detrimental effect on you, as a matter of fact it will eventually bring out nothing but positives....eventually.

Stop worrying about these numbers.....the protocol is the same regardless of any of them. You don't want to try and "spot fix." Rather just give your body what it needs to do what it needs to do.

[MungYarlon]

Sure - I'll give you my take and try to make it short.

First off androsterone is a neurosteroid. We know for a fact that finasteride lowers androsterone levels in the body and brain. Androsterone is also a GABA-A agonist just like allopregnanolone is. This means that if the brain is under some sort of stress androsterone can act as a GABA-A helper to agonize or stimulate that receptor (allopregnanolone does the same). Allopregnanolone itself isn't that important it just happens to the neurosteroid that takes the biggest hit from fin but plenty of other hormones are negatively impacted as well. All of these GABA-A agonist were being inhibited with fin which causes the GABA-A receptor to upregulate along with androgen receptor in the brain to upregulate.

What makes androsterone special though is it seems to replace a lot of the other key areas that finasteride negatively impacted - specifically in the brain and body. Androsterone increases the brain levels of androsterone, epiandrosterone, 5α-dihydrotestosterone, and androstandiol.

So we know that finasteride blocked GABA, lowered DHT in the entire body including the brain, raises serum estrogen etc.

Androsterone does the total opposite of what fin does in all areas meaning instead of blocking GABA you are agonizing it now (causing it to downregulate), instead of lowering DHT you are increasing it in the body and brain (causing the AR to downregulate), instead of raising estrogen you are lowering it etc. So whether its a receptor issue or something else you are pushing yourself in the right direction.

To pinpoint exactly which area is the root cause I don't know but in laymans terms androsterone is the best to cover all areas that fin screwed up.

References:

https://i.imgur.com/ZyWO6Ct.png
Psychomotor and rewarding properties of the neurosteroids dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate and androsterone: effects on monoamine and steroid metabolism - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22508085/)
Plasma androsterone/epiandrosterone sulfates as markers of 5 alpha-reductase activity: effect of finasteride in normal men - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9292937/)
PayPerView: Effects of Subchronic Finasteride Treatment and Withdrawal on Neuroactive Steroid Levels and Their Receptors in the Male Rat Brain - Karger Publishers (https://www.karger.com/Article/PDF/442982)

Ok that makes sense, so as well as boosting positive allosteric modulators of GABA, it sorts out hormones in the brain.

I was also wondering what you thought of the theory that epigenetic changes were happening in PFS patients. Surely if that were the case, the androsterone wouldn't have much of an impact on androgen receptors, not would an increase in hormones?

[Cdsnuts]

Ok that makes sense, so as well as boosting positive allosteric modulators of GABA, it sorts out hormones in the brain.

I was also wondering what you thought of the theory that epigenetic changes were happening in PFS patients. Surely if that were the case, the androsterone wouldn't have much of an impact on androgen receptors, not would an increase in hormones?

Epigenetic changes can be manipulated by the environment they're in as well. Give the body the correct inputs and (environment) live a specific way (protocol) and these epigenetic changes will take place for the better.

[TubZy]

Ok that makes sense, so as well as boosting positive allosteric modulators of GABA, it sorts out hormones in the brain.

I was also wondering what you thought of the theory that epigenetic changes were happening in PFS patients. Surely if that were the case, the androsterone wouldn't have much of an impact on androgen receptors, not would an increase in hormones?

Haven't seen any conclusive evidence on it just some speculation around some epigenetic "markers" and PFS but the studies showed nothing conclusive. It was just speculation.

I personally don't think any permanent epigenetic changes occur from finasteride since so many people have recovered and similar symptoms occur from other substances (saw palmetto, deca, minoxidil, accutane, SSRIs etc.)

To CD's point as well, you can influence gene expression by your diet anyways. Fasting and eating certain foods can trigger certain gene expressions (i.e. broccoli).

[MungYarlon]

Haven't seen any conclusive evidence on it just some speculation around some epigenetic "markers" and PFS but the studies showed nothing conclusive. It was just speculation.

I personally don't think any permanent epigenetic changes occur from finasteride since so many people have recovered and similar symptoms occur from other substances (saw palmetto, deca, minoxidil, accutane, SSRIs etc.)

To CD's point as well, you can influence gene expression by your diet anyways. Fasting and eating certain foods can trigger certain gene expressions (i.e. broccoli).

Yeah I agree that they aren't going to be permanent, CRISPR and such could deal with those types of issues.

I also wondered what you think my reason for having high Vitamin D3 is. I heard that many with PFS have extremely low D3, the reason being that the androgen signalling is broken, and yet mine bordered on being too high. Do you think its not really a question of androgens, but neurosteroids in my case, and what biomarkers could help me build a better picture from the hormone panel?

Thanks again!

[MungYarlon]

I'm asking all this because at the moment I'm starting to realise more and more that what I'm going through may not be PFS at all, but rather simply the stress of thinking I do indeed have PFS, so if there was any way of diagnosing, or at least give a good indicator of it, I'd like to know.

[Cdsnuts]

I'm asking all this because at the moment I'm starting to realise more and more that what I'm going through may not be PFS at all, but rather simply the stress of thinking I do indeed have PFS, so if there was any way of diagnosing, or at least give a good indicator of it, I'd like to know.

Listen....you would know if you had pfs. It's not something that can be created in the mind. Certain anxious thoughts and maybe things that spring from normal anxiety could be effecting you, but they would not even come CLOSE to effecting you like pfs would.

[biatch]

Hey guys what’s up!
First of all I want to tell you I’m doing good/great.. I recovered from PFS, still not 100% but many time have been very close to it.
Said this, I still have 8 bottles of R Andro in the fridge... they’re there from 4 years...
Do you think prohormones has an expired date? Cause I can not see any on the box, I only see the producing date and it seems to be 2016....
Any tips to know if these bottles are still good?
Thank you!

[Cdsnuts]

Hey guys what’s up!
First of all I want to tell you I’m doing good/great.. I recovered from PFS, still not 100% but many time have been very close to it.
Said this, I still have 8 bottles of R Andro in the fridge... they’re there from 4 years...
Do you think prohormones has an expired date? Cause I can not see any on the box, I only see the producing date and it seems to be 2016....
Any tips to know if these bottles are still good?
Thank you!

I would run it anyway. it's not going to hurt you. Worst case scenario, nothing happens. But I still think you'll get something out of it.

When can we expect your recovery post? Come on man....GET ON IT! You're so close.

You should be done with this shit by now. Did you take a little break?

[biatch]

I would run it anyway. it's not going to hurt you. Worst case scenario, nothing happens. But I still think you'll get something out of it.

When can we expect your recovery post? Come on man....GET ON IT! You're so close.

You should be done with this shit by now. Did you take a little break?

Yes I had a serious health issue, I have been hospitalized 2 times during these last 3 years for my Ulcerative Colitis. Now I’m using infliximab medication and it is under control...
I have arrived being 47KG and have been treated with 70mg of cortisol for months...
I think my body really restored it self since that moment...
For sure I’m also following a straight diet, it means no junk food and no milky products for me, and have followed the protocol the most I could.. cold showers- herbs rotation- diet etc..
Now I can have sex without any problem and feel f*** horny (depending from days as normal person), my brain fog has gone... so I’m feeling great!
I’m still not 100% cause I still feel my nervous system is not where it should have to be... infact the main issue I still have is that feeling of fatigue/feeling kind of tired in my muscles but for sure it doesn’t bother me that much and I can live a full life!
.. it’s true I would like to resolve also these last step... so that’s why I’m considering starting back my herbs rotation (I did it but o let in a liquid form, to don’t bother my UC) and the R Andro cycle...
But I’m really happy where I am, cause PFS seems to be Passed..

[Outlaw]

Yes I had a serious health issue, I have been hospitalized 2 times during these last 3 years for my Ulcerative Colitis. Now I’m using infliximab medication and it is under control...
I have arrived being 47KG and have been treated with 70mg of cortisol for months...
I think my body really restored it self since that moment...
For sure I’m also following a straight diet, it means no junk food and no milky products for me, and have followed the protocol the most I could.. cold showers- herbs rotation- diet etc..
Now I can have sex without any problem and feel f*** horny (depending from days as normal person), my brain fog has gone... so I’m feeling great!
I’m still not 100% cause I still feel my nervous system is not where it should have to be... infact the main issue I still have is that feeling of fatigue/feeling kind of tired in my muscles but for sure it doesn’t bother me that much and I can live a full life!
.. it’s true I would like to resolve also these last step... so that’s why I’m considering starting back my herbs rotation (I did it but o let in a liquid form, to don’t bother my UC) and the R Andro cycle...
But I’m really happy where I am, cause PFS seems to be Passed..

Shittt that's not in the recovery section but that's as good as it get for people looking for hope. Congrats for handling your colitis and getting your quality of life back man.

Were you avoiding dairy during the protocol too? TMO seems to say it's fine so I eat cheese and yogurt, but I don't want to overdo it, so I'm curious how people on the board handle this aspect.

[biatch]

Shittt that's not in the recovery section but that's as good as it get for people looking for hope. Congrats for handling your colitis and getting your quality of life back man.

Were you avoiding dairy during the protocol too? TMO seems to say it's fine so I eat cheese and yogurt, but I don't want to overdo it, so I'm curious how people on the board handle this aspect.
I don’t eat diary simply cause it’s bad for the colitis I have.
Let’s say that because of my colitis I put my self on a straight diet, and the diet is the same as TMO suggest (except diary for my self, cause it hurt me).

[Cdsnuts]

Shittt that's not in the recovery section but that's as good as it get for people looking for hope. Congrats for handling your colitis and getting your quality of life back man.

Were you avoiding dairy during the protocol too? TMO seems to say it's fine so I eat cheese and yogurt, but I don't want to overdo it, so I'm curious how people on the board handle this aspect.

Dairy is taken on a case by case basis. Some guys have an allergy to it, others don't. Gluten of course is the main culprit, but for some people, dairy can be just as damaging. ONly way to know is to do an elimination diet.

[Cdsnuts]

Yes I had a serious health issue, I have been hospitalized 2 times during these last 3 years for my Ulcerative Colitis. Now I’m using infliximab medication and it is under control...
I have arrived being 47KG and have been treated with 70mg of cortisol for months...
I think my body really restored it self since that moment...
For sure I’m also following a straight diet, it means no junk food and no milky products for me, and have followed the protocol the most I could.. cold showers- herbs rotation- diet etc..
Now I can have sex without any problem and feel f*** horny (depending from days as normal person), my brain fog has gone... so I’m feeling great!
I’m still not 100% cause I still feel my nervous system is not where it should have to be... infact the main issue I still have is that feeling of fatigue/feeling kind of tired in my muscles but for sure it doesn’t bother me that much and I can live a full life!
.. it’s true I would like to resolve also these last step... so that’s why I’m considering starting back my herbs rotation (I did it but o let in a liquid form, to don’t bother my UC) and the R Andro cycle...
But I’m really happy where I am, cause PFS seems to be Passed..

It didn't pass, you eliminated it. All on your work. Congrats.

[Outlaw]

Dairy is taken on a case by case basis. Some guys have an allergy to it, others don't. Gluten of course is the main culprit, but for some people, dairy can be just as damaging. ONly way to know is to do an elimination diet.

I don't feel anything bad regarding dairy, any particular symptoms I should be watching for?

Is it possible for it to be damaging without physically noticing symptoms? If so, I think I would just cut it to be safe

Just wanna maximize my protocol hahah

[MungYarlon]

I have arrived being 47KG and have been treated with 70mg of cortisol for months...


Was the treatment with cortisol because of PFS or was it unrelated?

[Zonz]

Dairy is taken on a case by case basis. Some guys have an allergy to it, others don't. Gluten of course is the main culprit, but for some people, dairy can be just as damaging. ONly way to know is to do an elimination diet.

If dairy gives me acne that means it’s inflammatory right? That’s gonna he a bitch to cut out. I literally have gluten free pizza planned for backloading tonight lol. Dairy is what keeps me going, but it does give me acne, so I might try cutting it out.

[Cdsnuts]

If dairy gives me acne that means it’s inflammatory right? That’s gonna he a bitch to cut out. I literally have gluten free pizza planned for backloading tonight lol. Dairy is what keeps me going, but it does give me acne, so I might try cutting it out.

Dairy could be the cause of your acne, yes.

[Jado]

Yes I had a serious health issue, I have been hospitalized 2 times during these last 3 years for my Ulcerative Colitis. Now I’m using infliximab medication and it is under control...
I have arrived being 47KG and have been treated with 70mg of cortisol for months...
I think my body really restored it self since that moment...
For sure I’m also following a straight diet, it means no junk food and no milky products for me, and have followed the protocol the most I could.. cold showers- herbs rotation- diet etc..
Now I can have sex without any problem and feel f*** horny (depending from days as normal person), my brain fog has gone... so I’m feeling great!
I’m still not 100% cause I still feel my nervous system is not where it should have to be... infact the main issue I still have is that feeling of fatigue/feeling kind of tired in my muscles but for sure it doesn’t bother me that much and I can live a full life!
.. it’s true I would like to resolve also these last step... so that’s why I’m considering starting back my herbs rotation (I did it but o let in a liquid form, to don’t bother my UC) and the R Andro cycle...
But I’m really happy where I am, cause PFS seems to be Passed..

Hey man! Glad to hear you're doing so well. I have a family hx of UC (grandma/brother), and i have had horrible GI symptoms with PFS e.g. severe abdominal pain, bloody stools etc. I see to be past the worst as far as GI symptoms go, but I'm still pretty sensitive to stuff. I tried R-Andro a while back and it seemed to give me a little GI upset and increased anxiety. It was over a year ago, and I want to attempt another cycle. My question: have you had any issues running it? Do you use the topical form to avoid the GI tract, or can you run the oral without any problem?

[biatch]

Hello guys, I need to report my actual state:
As I wrote few months ago, I was doing good.
2 months ago I tried half pill of R Andro I have and since then I got maxive depression and anxiety and my sex drive has gone really down.
I do feel this everyday and I’m experiencing panick attacks, I guess that stuff is not good for me… any other got the same experience and these effects still don’t go away??

[Maxout777]

Hello guys, I need to report my actual state:
As I wrote few months ago, I was doing good.
2 months ago I tried half pill of R Andro I have and since then I got maxive depression and anxiety and my sex drive has gone really down.
I do feel this everyday and I’m experiencing panick attacks, I guess that stuff is not good for me… any other got the same experience and these effects still don’t go away??

Which product is this? Super R Andro orals from IML?

[biatch]

Which product is this? Super R Andro orals from IML?

Yes..!

[Turnover25]

Yes..!

Sorry to hear that man, I hope you feel better soon. Super R Andro nukes my libido and emotions for at least 2-3 months after I stop cycle, it takes time for me to come out of it. I’m still in that state after my last cycle, even tho it’s slowly climbing. Normal in my experience.

Did you follow the protocol, especially the herb rotation to a T for at least 2 months before taking the super R Andro? Everyone I’ve seen that hasn’t raised their test levels through the protocol before starting cycle has gotten fucked up from it.

[biatch]

Sorry to hear that man, I hope you feel better soon. Super R Andro nukes my libido and emotions for at least 2-3 months after I stop cycle, it takes time for me to come out of it. I’m still in that state after my last cycle, even tho it’s slowly climbing. Normal in my experience.

Did you follow the protocol, especially the herb rotation to a T for at least 2 months before taking the super R Andro? Everyone I’ve seen that hasn’t raised their test levels through the protocol before starting cycle has gotten fucked up from it.
How much RAndro did you use per day and for how long to have these sides?
How many circles
Did you run? And did you recover after each run before to start a new one?

[Turnover25]

How much RAndro did you use per day and for how long to have these sides?
How many circles
Did you run? And did you recover after each run before to start a new one?

300 mg to 500 mg a day depending on how I felt. I’ve run 3 cycles, the longest one was 12 weeks. So I think you’re gonna be fine after 1 half pill my guy.

This has lasted like 3 months for me, first cycle I was a zombie for months, but slowly rebounded and hit my next cycle. Right now my Libido is extremely low, I have anhedonia and my dick is kinda pathetic. On cycle all of that was the opposite, and it’s slowly improving daily. R Andro can really beat you down, especially if you weren’t ready for it.

My advice is get on the protocol, with the herbs, and run it 100% to balance out your hormones again and raise your test up.

[biatch]

300 mg to 500 mg a day depending on how I felt. I’ve run 3 cycles, the longest one was 12 weeks. So I think you’re gonna be fine after 1 half pill my guy.

This has lasted like 3 months for me, first cycle I was a zombie for months, but slowly rebounded and hit my next cycle. Right now my Libido is extremely low, I have anhedonia and my dick is kinda pathetic. On cycle all of that was the opposite, and it’s slowly improving daily. R Andro can really beat you down, especially if you weren’t ready for it.

My advice is get on the protocol, with the herbs, and run it 100% to balance out your hormones again and raise your test up.

So just to understand, did you recover in between the circle you had?
And if you do recover, why you still run circles if you always get strong sides??
I mean where is the gain on running circles that always set you back??

[biatch]

So just to understand, did you recover in between the circle you had?
And if you do recover, why you still run circles if you always get strong sides??
I mean where is the gain on running circles that always set you back??

Only thing I can say is that I’m 100% impotent now…
Really this shit destroyed all I gained during years… I can’t believe it!

[Maxout777]

Only thing I can say is that I’m 100% impotent now…
Really this shit destroyed all I gained during years… I can’t believe it!

Test your estrogen. This is the only thing I can possibly think of from a 50mg one time dose of androsterone is it crashed your estrogen.

[biatch]

Test your estrogen. This is the only thing I can possibly think of from a 50mg one time dose of androsterone is it crashed your estrogen.

If so, what to do?

- - - Updated - - -

Which method by blood should I test estro?

[biatch]

I was planning on saying that. Considering you fully recovered previously, it could be that it dropped your E2.

How to restore this?

[Turnover25]

So just to understand, did you recover in between the circle you had?
And if you do recover, why you still run circles if you always get strong sides??
I mean where is the gain on running circles that always set you back??

You haven’t answered a single question I asked. How long did you run the protocol, with the herb rotation before and after you took Andro?

I’m not going to take time out of my day to help you if you’re going to waste my time. There’s other forums for that

[biatch]

You haven’t answered a single question I asked. How long did you run the protocol, with the herb rotation before and after you took Andro?

I’m not going to take time out of my day to help you if you’re going to waste my time. There’s other forums for that
Come on man.
I have real headache, sorry if I didn’t answer.
I was recovered before this and I was running herbs here and there not everyday.
Let’s say that I was keeping a straight diet and running herbs couple days per week, not really continue since I was pretty recovered.

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Thanks for your time..!

[Maxout777]

If so, what to do?

- - - Updated - - -

Which method by blood should I test estro?

Use LCMS testing of Estradiol, sensitive if available. You can do something edtrogenic to see if it alleviates some symptoms too. I can have a few pints of beer after crashed estro and feel better within hours. This will point to you having crashed E2.

[Turnover25]

Use LCMS testing of Estradiol, sensitive if available. You can do something edtrogenic to see if it alleviates some symptoms too. I can have a few pints of beer after crashed estro and feel better within hours. This will point to you having crashed E2.

What about a bottled water or something instead? I know when I was in a bad state alcohol would wreck me, might be a bad idea for him atm

[Turnover25]

Come on man.
I have real headache, sorry if I didn’t answer.
I was recovered before this and I was running herbs here and there not everyday.
Let’s say that I was keeping a straight diet and running herbs couple days per week, not really continue since I was pretty recovered.

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Thanks for your time..!

I can’t really answer for any of the technical things you want to know, I just think your body may have not been ready for it yet. Just taking herbs every once in a while and eating mostly clean wouldn’t have been enough for my body to handle it the first time I tried. Slander also randomly popped R prohormones and got wrecked, I’d just run the protocol in its entirety, at least diet, sleep, sprints, lifting, herbs, vit d, sunlight, for a while until you right the ship again

[Maxout777]

What about a bottled water or something instead? I know when I was in a bad state alcohol would wreck me, might be a bad idea for him atm

While a tad estrogenic, a bottle of water is not going to move the needle enough in a short period of time to tell a difference. Honestly, he can try a non-alcoholic beer that is hoppy. Hops are potent agonist of estrogen receptor alpha, so the hops in the pints will be what shows the difference, not so much the alcohol.

[biatch]

Use LCMS testing of Estradiol, sensitive if available. You can do something edtrogenic to see if it alleviates some symptoms too. I can have a few pints of beer after crashed estro and feel better within hours. This will point to you having crashed E2.

Im gonna try to have a beer to see how I feel despite its not indicated for my UC..
But one won’t hurt me.
Thanks all for the tips..

[biatch]

What do you mean “bottle of water”?… I don’t get it…. Why water should work for estro?

[Maxout777]

What do you mean “bottle of water”?… I don’t get it…. Why water should work for estro?

The plastic used creates xenoestrogens, etc in the water.

[Cdsnuts]

All the more reason to follow the protocol EXACTLY as laid out. There is a reason for ALL of it.

If these directions aren't followed things like this happen. Which, btw, isn't anything that is going to hurt you. Make you feel like shit, if you don't follow instructions, sure, but not destroy you.

You're either IN, or NOT, there is no in between.

[Cdsnuts]

Come on man.
I have real headache, sorry if I didn’t answer.
I was recovered before this and I was running herbs here and there not everyday.
Let’s say that I was keeping a straight diet and running herbs couple days per week, not really continue since I was pretty recovered.

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Thanks for your time..!

You were recovered? No recovery post? I mean, that is the goal here. Most guys can't wait for the day they can post in that section. Just sayin, I'm surprised you didn't make one especially after all the time you spent here.

[biatch]

All the more reason to follow the protocol EXACTLY as laid out. There is a reason for ALL of it.

If these directions aren't followed things like this happen. Which, btw, isn't anything that is going to hurt you. Make you feel like shit, if you don't follow instructions, sure, but not destroy you.

You're either IN, or NOT, there is no in between.

I made a big mistake to try RAndro, if I didn’t I would still be able to have sex now.

- - - Updated - - -

I was not 100% recovered, that’s why I didn’t post on the recovery post.

[Cdsnuts]

I made a big mistake to try RAndro, if I didn’t I would still be able to have sex now.

- - - Updated - - -

I was not 100% recovered, that’s why I didn’t post on the recovery post.

I have never heard of one dose of R-andro....DHEA to boot, screwing someone up like this......ever.

[biatch]

I have never heard of one dose of R-andro....DHEA to boot, screwing someone up like this......ever.

As doctors never heard of propecia screwing someone up like this..
Anyway, going to restart the protocol to improve my hormones..
Thanks for the help..!

[biatch]

As doctors never heard of propecia screwing someone up like this..
Anyway, going to restart the protocol to improve my hormones..
Thanks for the help..!

Guys, I feel really shit.. I have that old hole sensation of pain in my head, all messed up.
Zero libido and brain fog is back.

@maxout - I tried a beer other night and I got some libido and erection was fine, but I really feel so flat after using randro.
I am really down and feel really not good.
I have a business, a woman to carry on..
I have suicidal thoughts.

[Maxout777]

Guys, I feel really shit.. I have that old hole sensation of pain in my head, all messed up.
Zero libido and brain fog is back.

@maxout - I tried a beer other night and I got some libido and erection was fine, but I really feel so flat after using randro.
I am really down and feel really not good.
I have a business, a woman to carry on..
I have suicidal thoughts.

If your symptoms improved via a beer, then you’ve either got extremely low E or some GABA disregulation. I know we normally don’t use blood tests on this forum for much but would be worth seeing where your estrogen is. With crashed estrogen you will have all of those symptoms mentioned.

[biatch]

If your symptoms improved via a beer, then you’ve either got extremely low E or some GABA disregulation. I know we normally don’t use blood tests on this forum for much but would be worth seeing where your estrogen is. With crashed estrogen you will have all of those symptoms mentioned.

Ok but how to rebuild them up?

[Maxout777]

Ok but how to rebuild them up?

First I would do some sort of blood work to confirm it. Taking shots in the dark without blood work (unless you're following a known protocol) is how you end up in the situation you're in right now.

[biatch]

First I would do some sort of blood work to confirm it. Taking shots in the dark without blood work (unless you're following a known protocol) is how you end up in the situation you're in right now.

I took blood test this morning but for estrogens they didn’t have the MS method you suggested me, so I took them with normal blood test.

[Maxout777]

I took blood test this morning but for estrogens they didn’t have the MS method you suggested me, so I took them with normal blood test.

Good. Yeah, the LCMS method is quite expensive. Most of the time to get it you have to purchase privately online, in my experience.

[James897]

Do or do not. There is no try

Yoda

[biatch]

Do or do not. There is no try

Yoda
I’m totally messed up.
Before I could get erection and get aroused easy, now it is impossible and feel numb and tired.
Biggest problem I feel is in my head, pain/discomfort feeling and tired as hell, with super anxious.

[Cdsnuts]

I’m totally messed up.
Before I could get erection and get aroused easy, now it is impossible and feel numb and tired.
Biggest problem I feel is in my head, pain/discomfort feeling and tired as hell, with super anxious.

This is NOT from one R andro pill.

[biatch]

This is NOT from one R andro pill.
CD, do you think it is fine to run herbs by liquid herbs like pure tinctures?
I have UC and powder herbs give me pain, so I am using liquid form.
Do you think it is fine?
Thank you

[Maxout777]

CD, do you think it is fine to run herbs by liquid herbs like pure tinctures?
I have UC and powder herbs give me pain, so I am using liquid form.
Do you think it is fine?
Thank you

Not CD but used plenty of tinctures during recovery. Should be fine.

[Cdsnuts]

CD, do you think it is fine to run herbs by liquid herbs like pure tinctures?
I have UC and powder herbs give me pain, so I am using liquid form.
Do you think it is fine?
Thank you

Seeing as there are some tinctures in the recommended herb list, the answer is yes.

[biatch]

Seeing as there are some tinctures in the recommended herb list, the answer is yes.

I have my hormones tests results:
S-Testosterone: 7,67nmol/L [8,00-42]
L3-S-Testosterone Free: 11,3pg/mL [15-50]

These are the only values out of range and I’m pretty sure it has been caused by Randro.

Any suggestion?

[Turnover25]

I have my hormones tests results:
S-Testosterone: 7,67nmol/L [8,00-42]
L3-S-Testosterone Free: 11,3pg/mL [15-50]

These are the only values out of range and I’m pretty sure it has been caused by Randro.

Any suggestion?

If only there was a website designed specifically for raising low T, with an extensive guide to follow and an entire forum for support.

Why has nobody created this yet?

[RoadToRecovery]

If only there was a website designed specifically for raising low T, with an extensive guide to follow and an entire forum for support.

Why has nobody created this yet?

Great idea! Interested in making a website together for raising low T? What do you think of the name TotalMaleOptimization?
What name do you have in mind for the support forum?

[Comewhatmay]

If only there was a website designed specifically for raising low T, with an extensive guide to follow and an entire forum for support.

Why has nobody created this yet?

Haha! This gave me good laugh

[Turnover25]

Great idea! Interested in making a website together for raising low T? What do you think of the name TotalMaleOptimization?
What name do you have in mind for the support forum?

Dude, let’s do it. What a great name. What about like, source swoll, or something along those lines?

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Haha! This gave me good laugh

Hahah!

[biatch]

Dude, let’s do it. What a great name. What about like, source swoll, or something along those lines?

- - - Updated - - -



Hahah!

Just wanted to be sure you’re doing your homeworks! 😁

[Turnover25]

Just wanted to be sure you’re doing your homeworks! 😁

Haha just trying to shed some light man. I think you’re gonna be fine, if your T is low just follow the protocol to get that shit up

[biatch]

Haha just trying to shed some light man. I think you’re gonna be fine, if your T is low just follow the protocol to get that shit up

Already on it homie…
At times I just need a boost of courage to get the right way…

Anyway started my regimen again yesterday.
Cold shower, paleo diet, herbs rotation, training (soft cause everytime I do it stronger, I feel like exhausted).
Will update at the right moment..
Thank you!

[Outlaw]

Already on it homie…
At times I just need a boost of courage to get the right way…

Anyway started my regimen again yesterday.
Cold shower, paleo diet, herbs rotation, training (soft cause everytime I do it stronger, I feel like exhausted).
Will update at the right moment..
Thank you!
Just logging in to give you some courage biatch, you got this. The fact that you were close to recovery motivates me to keep grinding

[biatch]

Just logging in to give you some courage biatch, you got this. The fact that you were close to recovery motivates me to keep grinding

Yes, I was pretty recovered, still not 100% but I was doing really good.

[Turnover25]

Already on it homie…
At times I just need a boost of courage to get the right way…

Anyway started my regimen again yesterday.
Cold shower, paleo diet, herbs rotation, training (soft cause everytime I do it stronger, I feel like exhausted).
Will update at the right moment..
Thank you!

You got this bro. Give it some time and dedication and be patient, you’ll be alright

[Comewhatmay]

Yes, I was pretty recovered, still not 100% but I was doing really good.

Listen you son of a biatch... If there's one thing I've learnt about you reading through your threads is that no matter how hard you get knocked down you always find a way back off your feet and now will be no different from before

[biatch]

Listen you son of a biatch... If there's one thing I've learnt about you reading through your threads is that no matter how hard you get knocked down you always find a way back off your feet and now will be no different from before

Thank you guys for helping!
Will update…
Thank you

[Maxout777]

I have my hormones tests results:
S-Testosterone: 7,67nmol/L [8,00-42]
L3-S-Testosterone Free: 11,3pg/mL [15-50]

These are the only values out of range and I’m pretty sure it has been caused by Randro.

Any suggestion?

Did you get estrogen results?

If your T is that low chances are your E2 is low as well. In the event it isn’t, which would shock me as R Andro tanks E2, then that’s a whole other story. Estrogen dominance.

[biatch]

Did you get estrogen results?

If your T is that low chances are your E2 is low as well. In the event it isn’t, which would shock me as R Andro tanks E2, then that’s a whole other story. Estrogen dominance.

E2 are 20 pg/ml Range:[<31.5]

I don’t know if it’s too high, seems to be in the range… but true that T being so low me maybe they should be less than this.
My plan is to run herbs and make T raise and repeat tests to see where all values goes.
I used arimidex years ago and crashing E2 is not comfortable at all.

[biatch]

E2 are 20 pg/ml Range:[<31.5]

I don’t know if it’s too high, seems to be in the range… but true that T being so low me maybe they should be less than this.
My plan is to run herbs and make T raise and repeat tests to see where all values goes.
I used arimidex years ago and crashing E2 is not comfortable at all.

Has anyone tried D-Aspartic Acid?

[Master Mal]

I'm with Tubsy in that, overall, oral R-Andro had much more pronounced effects than the transdermal Androhard. I've been looking for an oral source ever since. With that in mind, has anyone given any thought to trying this?

https://steelsupplements.com/products/7-3-andro?variant=12233910517829&iap_campaign=IAP-Shopping-Products&wickedsource=google&wickedid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SSsxv5vQQ8gn0Xgp9 vYvYCt8Vx7jTJ-b9JPVD2OFXzg-vDiF9PJnqRoCssoQAvD_BwE&wickedid=343606174212&wv=3.1&&&gclid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SSsxv5vQQ8gn0Xgp9vYv YCt8Vx7jTJ-b9JPVD2OFXzg-vDiF9PJnqRoCssoQAvD_BwE

[Turnover25]

I'm with Tubsy in that, overall, oral R-Andro had much more pronounced effects than the transdermal Androhard. I've been looking for an oral source ever since. With that in mind, has anyone given any thought to trying this?

https://steelsupplements.com/products/7-3-andro?variant=12233910517829&iap_campaign=IAP-Shopping-Products&wickedsource=google&wickedid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SSsxv5vQQ8gn0Xgp9 vYvYCt8Vx7jTJ-b9JPVD2OFXzg-vDiF9PJnqRoCssoQAvD_BwE&wickedid=343606174212&wv=3.1&&&gclid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SSsxv5vQQ8gn0Xgp9vYv YCt8Vx7jTJ-b9JPVD2OFXzg-vDiF9PJnqRoCssoQAvD_BwE

I scored some oral R Andro recently from EBay and am currently on it. Couldn’t believe when it actually came in the mail, thought it had to be a scam

[Master Mal]

I scored some oral R Andro recently from EBay and am currently on it. Couldn’t believe when it actually came in the mail, thought it had to be a scam

Oh wow. How many bottles?

[Turnover25]

Oh wow. How many bottles?

Just 2.

They have a Super R Andro transdermal now too, you know. Apparently it’s stronger as well.

[Master Mal]

Just 2.

They have a Super R Andro transdermal now too, you know. Apparently it’s stronger as well.

I actually just started it today, so we'll see how that goes. But the oral stuff worked so well on me I figure picking some more up couldn't hurt!

[Turnover25]

I actually just started it today, so we'll see how that goes. But the oral stuff worked so well on me I figure picking some more up couldn't hurt!

Agreed, it really is fantastic.

[biatch]

Hello guys,
I have 8 bottles of Randro left that I won’t use.
Since it is out of production, if anyone needs it I can sell it.
If interested PM me.
Thanks.

[Cdsnuts]

If only there was a website designed specifically for raising low T, with an extensive guide to follow and an entire forum for support.

Why has nobody created this yet?

Lol.