Hope’s Journey to Freedom

[HOPE]

Gg

[LetsGo]

Herbs are the same for everyone unless allergic.

Bathmate is not necessary if you have no ED symptoms whatsoever, which would also mean you get rock hard nocturnal and morning wood. You should stop edging and fapping though.

The herbs will not crash you. Would they be in the protocol if they did?

Your hair loss may not necessarily reverse through the protocol, unless it’s just from stress only.

Diffuse unpatterned alopecia is a type of hair loss where you thin everywhere evenly. If this is what you have, there’s nothing to really do about it except shave your head when you lose enough hair, or maybe scalp micropigmentation if you want it to look like you shaved your head but arent bald. The other option is a hair system if you feel a strong need for teenager-level hair. You cannot get a hair transplant if you have diffuse unpatterned alopecia, and you shouldn’t take finasteride, for obvious reasons.

[Maximilien]

you shouldn’t take finasteride, for obvious reasons.

Finasteride ? what is that ? sounds great

[Mistyballoon]

So, I’ve just gone out and bought these herbs and will begin cycling them as soon as they reach:
- Schisandra
- Pine Pollen
- He Shou Wou
- Tongkat Ali
- Shilajit
- Cistanche

Diet has been clean. Hopefully I can retrieve my life with this protocol.

- - - Updated - - -

Forgot to mention. Also got Ant Extract.

My shipment consisting of herbs were also just arrived.. Lets do it and beat PFS!

[LetsGo]

Finasteride ? what is that ? sounds great

Finasteride is more commonly known as propecia or proscar. It is what the “F” in PFS stands for.

I’m not sure if you’re making a joke about not knowing what it is, but I would not recommend taking finasteride. You’re never going to recover from PFS while you’re taking finasteride.

[MungYarlon]

Finasteride is more commonly known as propecia or proscar. It is what the “F” in PFS stands for.

I’m not sure if you’re making a joke about not knowing what it is, but I would not recommend taking finasteride. You’re never going to recover from PFS while you’re taking finasteride.

He's being sarcastic bro...

[Maximilien]

Don't mind me I was just being witty. I was hit pretty badly by PFS too

- - - Updated - - -
MungYarlon Aren't you french as well ? If so do you have a good address for the herbs ?

[MungYarlon]

Don't mind me I was just being witty. I was hit pretty badly by PFS too

- - - Updated - - -
MungYarlon Aren't you french as well ? If so do you have a good address for the herbs ?

Can't help dude. I dont live in France :(, I just speak a few European languages fluently

[LetsGo]

He's being sarcastic bro...

It’s the internet, so I’m never 100% sure when someone is being sarcastic :p

[Maximilien]

Can't help dude. I dont live in France :(, I just speak a few European languages fluently

That is respectable ;)

[Cdsnuts]

It’s the internet, so I’m never 100% sure when someone is being sarcastic :p

Yeah....no inflection. Texts too.

[Maximilien]

Hi, I would like to know as well :)

[Cdsnuts]

Really?

Both of you guys need to go back and read.

That's some spoon fed shit right there.

At least pretend your researching.

Does nicotine while juicing sound cleansing at all to you? Quit! This is your perfect opportunity.

[Cdsnuts]

I understand CD. Following my Canadian homie’s post, Outlaw, I’ve gone over and spent a couple of hours reading forums, so these questions were already sorted.
I’ve decided to continue for a little while on my nicotine habit as it greatly helps my concentration and energy levels (I believe @Maxout also does this), but will drop it within a month or so.

I’m going all out, and have educated myself on the protocol pretty damn well and will execute it to a T. Last time I did my water fast, I had a great relief from the emotional numbness, and even my sexual symptoms lifted, so I’m hopeful that staying on the protocol will bring me all sorts of benefits. Nevertheless, I’m excited to see everyone else on their path and in God’s good will, I hope we are able to see the good in life again.
I must admit however, that my particular obsessive tendencies, those that I used to obtain relief from the antidepressant, bombarded with doubts, are bringing me to question whether or not it will work, especially seeing that my case is quite different to most here. I have seen a handful of PSSD cases improve on this protocol, and certainly do not subscribe to the dubious belief that a silver bullet, a magic supplement will reverse whatever these drugs have done.
Thankfully, it seems many of those who recovered, one of those that particularly resonated with me was Ricky, also shared similar beliefs endowed by doubt when starting the protocol. Thankfully, due to a window, I am able to see beyond the lenses of the PSSD mentality that I am not in any way permanently damaged.
I will leave this here, for myself, as a back point: 6months to 2years will come anyway, better start on the protocol and see for yourself if it works.

As for my guy, CD, yes, it certainly was a shit ton of spoon feeding, but do not expect this to carry on. I am an avid reader, and my OCD characteristics will come in handy here, as I will do everything necessary to make sure I am getting all aspects of the protocol completed. I must say, though, thank you for providing the heaps of information on here, it certainly has instilled a lot a hope in me, and more importantly, a place to focus and get better, where all else has failed in this department. I will exit now, and hopefully log when I have questions or updates.

Why not try dipping or the gum instead of smoking it? Honestly it's not going to make or break your healing, but it is a great opportunity to quit........but I get it. I was a smoker. You'll heal either way.

You even sound more confident from those first few posts! See? EVERYTHING is here for you guys. Everything. It's not going anywhere, no need to rush it. It sounds like your research on the forum did you some solid good.

Now that you've studied, I'm sure as you go along you'll have questions. That's fine, everyone does. But now you have a basic understanding of the outline and the questions you ask will be more specific and unanswered. You'll get more interaction with other members as well when you're on the same page as them.

Good turn around man.

[Cdsnuts]

Seeing as I was smoking throughout my cleanse, I’m committing into a 7-day juice feast tommorow.

How's it going this time around? Just an fyi, a headache during a cleanse is a detox symptom. MOST people, including myself, get them everytime I start a cleanse. Totally normal. Drink more water, and just try and rest.

I can read the posts you deleted.....I'm just going to say this once, because in all fairness, you did delete them. You can add ginkgo, yes. I would rotate it with the other mind supps though as well. You can play around with it. A week on Gotu, a week on Bacopa, etc. Then try staggering the doses.

Mucuna and Maca are in the recommended herb list.

[Turnover25]

This time around having a major increase in suicidal thoughts and mood swings. Doesn’t make sense to me. I expected some deep shit without the nicotine as it was practically my only source of dopamine, but nah. Day three right now. Hitting 7 at least.

You’re cleansing, my anxiety and panic was almost unbearable during my fasts

[Turnover25]

I’m not sure man. Really losing hope, not on the protocol, but myself. I’ve seen it work for those with PFS (I’m 100% sure that this is the cure), but now with PSSD I’m doubting again. There are already 2 guys I know of that have PSSD and claim they live extremely healthy lives, but don’t have any improvements in their symptoms. I really didn’t want to reopen this stage, seeing as I thought I had it closed, but once again I’m having suicidal ideation. I have a history of from this sort of thing, was battling DP/DR then like a fucking idiot took an antidepressant, and within 10 days I developed PSSD. I couldn’t take the emotional numbness, and I can’t now, nicotine was my crush and even then, I attempted suicide. Was lucky enough to get admitted and survived, but I explained to the psychiatrist what I had was from the pills, and while she was nice enough not to give me more of these damn pills, she thought I was outright crazy. Couldn’t blame her then, and wouldn’t blame her now. I remember reading the day after I stopped the pills, and subsequently finding out this crap, that this sort of reaction is “incredibly rare”. I still developed it. It’s been hell since, and apart from a few moments of distraction, I’m not sure, the only thing I’m sure of is that the guys here should know that the protocol will work for PFS. It’s hormonal, there’s no way that this protocol wouldn’t work. As for me, I really do believe, as defeating and PropeciaHelp this sounds, I really do think I might just be fucked. The other day, one of the guys with my same symptoms, from an antidepressant, commited suicide. Damn shame, considering he had great success from UltraHard. Protocol would’ve probably cured him.

This log, I know has been a little different, but I couldn’t imagine that this is how much the nicotine has been helping. Day 3 of juice feast, gonna give the protocol exactly 2 years.

I’d like everyone pray for me for the strength just to not go fuck it. I’d even do anything to have my damn anxiety back. Really praying I don’t just fucking kill myself. Might have to reintroduce a bit of nicotine, but if it kills my fast I’m saying fuck it. Might as well die. Right?
Can’t believe just how shit my life is. It’s literally so fucking shit I pray I had PFS. At least there’s a cure then. Fuck. Do I smoke now? Do I commit suicide? Am I fucked for over? Who knows.
Day 3. We’ll evaluate somewhere day 710.

Hope exits. Act 4 Scene 2 ends.

You sound like everyone else in the early stages of PFS, including me, you’re gonna drive yourself crazy if you don’t control your thoughts. Was the suicide someone that has been on this forum? I fucked around with a lot of SSRI’s in my day with horrible effects, had the same thoughts as you. I went through the whole “maybe I have PSSD not PFS and I can’t recover, why am I not seeing results” blah blah phase. Just try and relax, you’re gonna be fine, just keep doing what you’re doing.

[PashaSolid]

I’m not sure man. Really losing hope, not on the protocol, but myself. I’ve seen it work for those with PFS (I’m 100% sure that this is the cure), but now with PSSD I’m doubting again. There are already 2 guys I know of that have PSSD and claim they live extremely healthy lives, but don’t have any improvements in their symptoms. I really didn’t want to reopen this stage, seeing as I thought I had it closed, but once again I’m having suicidal ideation. I have a history of from this sort of thing, was battling DP/DR then like a fucking idiot took an antidepressant, and within 10 days I developed PSSD. I couldn’t take the emotional numbness, and I can’t now, nicotine was my crush and even then, I attempted suicide. Was lucky enough to get admitted and survived, but I explained to the psychiatrist what I had was from the pills, and while she was nice enough not to give me more of these damn pills, she thought I was outright crazy. Couldn’t blame her then, and wouldn’t blame her now. I remember reading the day after I stopped the pills, and subsequently finding out this crap, that this sort of reaction is “incredibly rare”. I still developed it. It’s been hell since, and apart from a few moments of distraction, I’m not sure, the only thing I’m sure of is that the guys here should know that the protocol will work for PFS. It’s hormonal, there’s no way that this protocol wouldn’t work. As for me, I really do believe, as defeating and PropeciaHelp this sounds, I really do think I might just be fucked. The other day, one of the guys with my same symptoms, from an antidepressant, commited suicide. Damn shame, considering he had great success from UltraHard. Protocol would’ve probably cured him.

This log, I know has been a little different, but I couldn’t imagine that this is how much the nicotine has been helping. Day 3 of juice feast, gonna give the protocol exactly 2 years.

I’d like everyone pray for me for the strength just to not go fuck it. I’d even do anything to have my damn anxiety back. Really praying I don’t just fucking kill myself. Might have to reintroduce a bit of nicotine, but if it kills my fast I’m saying fuck it. Might as well die. Right?
Can’t believe just how shit my life is. It’s literally so fucking shit I pray I had PFS. At least there’s a cure then. Fuck. Do I smoke now? Do I commit suicide? Am I fucked for over? Who knows.
Day 3. We’ll evaluate somewhere day 710.

Hope exits. Act 4 Scene 2 ends.


I really believe in you bro, I have faith you will get better. I suspect the way your feeling now could be just connected to ceasing nicotine use. Hang in there

[Ratchet_V2]

Nicotine abuser here. I’ve been hooked for almost 10 years now. Not 10 straight, but I started smoking at 15 and have gone periods of years without it. Not too long ago, I was using close to a tin a day of 6mg Zyn for 3-4 months straight. That’s close to 90mgs a day. Do the math.

Nicotine withdrawals are brutal and can last for months. Depression during and after withdrawal is well documented and has been for a long time. Combine that with the stress of a fast/juice feast and you will feel exactly as you do right now. Your body is normal, it just needs to recalibrate. They’ve done research on the recovery of the nicotinic receptors and system in the brain, and even people who smoked a pack a day for 25+ years recovered the majority, if not all, of their receptors, albeit after a while. Point being, you will recover.

Every time I quit, without exception, I don’t sleep for 3 days. I cannot control my thoughts and feel schizo. My brain fog is almost unmanageable. I can’t remember anything, and I’m terribly depressed. Then for the next month, I slowly climb back out of the hole and things return to normal. It’s different for everyone though, so give yourself time.

Breathe. The wim hof is a good substitute for smoking. Not only will it improve and strengthen your respiratory system, it will build your tolerance to stress, clear your head, and give you a similar buzz to the nicotine. Do a round every time you have the urge to smoke.

You’ll pul through this. I know it.

Best of luck to you in the meantime,

Ratchet

[Ratchet_V2]

It’s definitely partially from the nicotine man. I just despise living like this. I know I seem manic, but, I promise you I’m not like this. Never was. Not even in my worst days before taking the antidepressant. My personality has been completely destroyed away from me. I need to fucking get better. I just fear that I give the protocol everything and I still don’t recover.

A few reports of people with PSSD, one of them for 12 years, who, “has lived the epitome of health”. The guy says he eats a carnivore diet and is pretty jacked, but hasn’t seen any improvements. That’s really what worries me. Anyways, thanks for the kind words guys. If you’re worried about me actually doing the protocol I wouldn’t, with 0 emotions I can easily force myself to it, the problem, though, is with the results.

Just terrifies me the idea, that all these chumps on PropeciaHelp and PSSD forums, are doing nothing to get better. I mean, how?! And this dude called Ergogenic Health or whatever is apparently very healthy, is jacked, but still has PSSD. Call me fucking nuts but the only thing giving me hope is the fact that there are facial and body fat changes for me (feminizing), the odd feeling in my right nipple, the lack of libido, the hair shedding, the dry skin, the difficulty to sweat which ultimately mean that there’s something going on hormonally. Man I really miss my fucking feelings. But whatever, I’ll give the protocol a try... if I can get my life back, I’m literally buying CD a Porsche.

My guy – I don’t want to dismiss your PSSD, but you definitely feel feelings.

“Man I really miss my feelings” – feeling of longing.
“Just terrifies me the idea” – feeling of horror/despair.
“I just despise living like this” – feeling of contempt.
“The odd feeling in my right nipple” You get the point.

You do feel things – you are just so stressed out and hyper focused on every negative aspect of your life and health right now that there is literally no room to feel anything positive. You will be gridlocked in this state forever if you don’t detach yourself from this label, if you constantly pick at the scab that is your healing. You know why ergogenic health still thinks he has PSSD? Because he has spent almost every waking moment for the last however many years fucking studying, sitting on forums, analyzing every food, nootropic, drug interaction in his body he’s fucking lost. You need to break up with PSSD. Treat it like that. You ever gone through a breakup? You check your ex’s shit constantly afterwards and it just keeps reopening your wound every time you do? You ever meet those guys that 3 years later they still haven’t moved on? Don’t be that fucking guy. Focus on becoming who you want and enjoying the things that you can – supplement that with healthy living & the protocol. Don’t visit forums, don’t journal your symptoms, just go be the person you are trying to get back to and eventually you will fall into it and the PSSD will dissipate. And remember, the second you analyze your feelings I.e “am i feeling happy right now” or “was this enjoyable” you, by default, separate and distance yourself from them. Don’t ruin good moments by doing this. If you catch yourself sitting back in a group of friends wondering if you’re even enjoying yourself, tell yourself you are and move on. Don’t give it any more thought than that. If you think you should feel sad, tell yourself you’re sad. Validate your initial reactions and feeling every chance you get and don’t spend any more time thinking about it. You can and will reprogram your brain this way. It takes time. It takes practice. It takes discipline, but it’s achievable for anyone willing to do the work. Go get it.

I’m dipping out this forum for minute & am going to go enjoy my summer. Best of luck to you.

[PashaSolid]

Making one last quick update before I head off this site for a couple of months as I adjust to life under the protocol.
Finally finished my juice feast. Refed today with Bone Broth from Kettle & Fire, as well as some raw vegetables. Will be easing into it and start eating semi-normally in 2-3 days. Nevertheless, quite disappointment with how my juice feast went. For starters, took the nicotine hit, but also found out recently that I may have done it entirely wrong. Many of the juices (due to my blender being a little shit) were chunky, and I often used bananas and avocados, which was a bit too creamy. That may have ruined the digestion a little bit, and I’ll probably do another fast sometime around November or December, when I have school off.
If anyone can clarify if I fucked up my fast though, that’d be great.
See you in a couple of months.


The juice in the juice feast shouldn’t be too thick and chunky. Did you use the nut milk bag?

[Dude1988]

It’s definitely partially from the nicotine man. I just despise living like this. I know I seem manic, but, I promise you I’m not like this. Never was. Not even in my worst days before taking the antidepressant. My personality has been completely destroyed away from me. I need to fucking get better. I just fear that I give the protocol everything and I still don’t recover.

A few reports of people with PSSD, one of them for 12 years, who, “has lived the epitome of health”. The guy says he eats a carnivore diet and is pretty jacked, but hasn’t seen any improvements. That’s really what worries me. Anyways, thanks for the kind words guys. If you’re worried about me actually doing the protocol I wouldn’t, with 0 emotions I can easily force myself to it, the problem, though, is with the results.

Just terrifies me the idea, that all these chumps on PropeciaHelp and PSSD forums, are doing nothing to get better. I mean, how?! And this dude called Ergogenic Health or whatever is apparently very healthy, is jacked, but still has PSSD. Call me fucking nuts but the only thing giving me hope is the fact that there are facial and body fat changes for me (feminizing), the odd feeling in my right nipple, the lack of libido, the hair shedding, the dry skin, the difficulty to sweat which ultimately mean that there’s something going on hormonally. Man I really miss my fucking feelings. But whatever, I’ll give the protocol a try... if I can get my life back, I’m literally buying CD a Porsche.


You need to focus on yourself and on detoxing
Carnivore diet is an absolute scam and it will guarantee lower hormonal output (it lowers test just like pure keto) and blockages of the body's =no detox
Do you guys not understand the importance of fruits and carbs especially after workout? Do you know fruits promote 5ar?

[MungYarlon]

You need to focus on yourself and on detoxing
Carnivore diet is an absolute scam and it will guarantee lower hormonal output (it lowers test just like pure keto) and blockages of the body's =no detox
Do you guys not understand the importance of fruits and carbs especially after workout? Do you know fruits promote 5ar?

The way you've been talking down to people the last few days, you'd think you were a veteran on this forum, had more than 14 posts and an introduction/ recovery log. There are numerous things wrong with what you've been saying the last few days, not simply how you've said it, but on a factual basis as well.

[Dude1988]

The way you've been talking down to people the last few days, you'd think you were a veteran on this forum, had more than 14 posts and an introduction/ recovery log. There are numerous things wrong with what you've been saying the last few days, not simply how you've said it, but on a factual basis as well.

then address them instead of whining...hit me with dem fax bro


edit: of course you are a retarded pro-vaxxer. maybe get back to pphelp you don't know anything about actual medicine

[Outlaw]

then address them instead of whining...hit me with dem fax bro


edit: of course you are a retarded pro-vaxxer. maybe get back to pphelp you don't know anything about actual medicine
Man I agree with MungYarlon, in your last few posts you really are unbearable. You talk about propeciahelp but your tone and demeanor are just as acid as people there.

HOPE is a good dude asking for juice feast tips and you just spew some confrontational shit on his thread

[PashaSolid]

Man I agree with MungYarlon, in your last few posts you really are unbearable. You talk about propeciahelp but your tone and demeanor are just as acid as people there.

HOPE is a good dude asking for juice feast tips and you just spew some confrontational shit on his thread

Don’t pay him any mind, he won’t have a voice if we don’t give him one

[Outlaw]

Don’t pay him any mind, he won’t have a voice if we don’t give him one
Solid advice

[Cdsnuts]

then address them instead of whining...hit me with dem fax bro


edit: of course you are a retarded pro-vaxxer. maybe get back to pphelp you don't know anything about actual medicine

Let's tone it down a bit guys......

[Cdsnuts]

That is respectable ;)

Very

[Cdsnuts]

You’re cleansing, my anxiety and panic was almost unbearable during my fasts

This unfortunately is very common when undergoing a cleanse as you are releasing past trauma's and emotional turmoil that has been held in physical form.

[Cdsnuts]

Just a quick question. I noticed, prior to starting the procotol, edging helps a lot, sensation, libido, etc. so my question is: I’m edging around once or twice a day, and some precum or liquid comes out - is that fine? Or should I minimize it even then? Nothing to come out? I’m not ejaculating though.

As long as you're not releasing, it counts.

[Cdsnuts]

Yo guys. The way I’ve been feeling since my juice feast, very fucking livable. I can do this for 2 years. Easy as hell. I can now have sex normally, provided this stays. I have the energy to exercise. Let me know about the hair thing, I’m using a natural shampoo (no saw palmetto or anything like that), and maybe this zinc + b6 (P5P) mixture. I think I’m gonna stay on this protocol forever. Probably an upswing, but if I can feel like this for 2 years until it fixed, who gives a shit? I feel pretty fucking decent. Still no morning erections, but my erections are now at 90%, increases in sensitivity, libido is at a 5/10. Things can improve and hopefully they will.
So, that’s a bit of an update. Things have been pretty good only 2 weeks into this protocol. If I can retain my hair too, I’ll be the ultimate chad.

- - - Updated - - -



Yo guys. The way I’ve been feeling since my juice feast, very fucking livable. I can do this for 2 years. Easy as hell. I can now have sex normally, provided this stays. I have the energy to exercise. Let me know about the hair thing, I’m using a natural shampoo (no saw palmetto or anything like that), and maybe this zinc + b6 (P5P) mixture. I think I’m gonna stay on this protocol forever. Probably an upswing, but if I can feel like this for 2 years until it fixed, who gives a shit? I feel pretty fucking decent. Still no morning erections, but my erections are now at 90%, increases in sensitivity, libido is at a 5/10. Things can improve and hopefully they will.
So, that’s a bit of an update. Things have been pretty good only 2 weeks into this protocol. If I can retain my hair too, I’ll be the ultimate chad.dd

That's good, but don't expect too much too soon. You'll most likely have a dip. Or many more. All depends. You just gotta keep going regardless.

[Turnover25]

Okay. Something extremely odd is happening. Today, woke up, continued protocol, did the ski brushing, cold showers, but realized my skin is extremely wrinkly, more so than usual. Freaked me out a bit, but ignored it. Never had these symptoms to this extent, but always had skin issues since PSSD. Dry, wrinkly skin. Anyways, after I began to eat breakfast noticed my forehead wrinkles are huge. Like I’m fucking aged a million years. Really odd.
Trying to calm down and figure out why this happened, but kindly request an investigative mind to help me out. I haven’t done anything outside of the protocol, except have a downswing that lasted for 2 days where I went and some gluten (don’t seem to have that response though prior). Really weird that I’m developing this now. I know many have had these symptoms - but is it something that is on the protocol/herbs/supplements that’s illicting this reaction? I’ve already taken my morning herb, and really am lost about what to do.

You’re in a weird stage right now where your body is trying to figure out what’s going on and things are off internally. That resulted in a lot of random bodily and neurological swings and changes, at least in my case. I still get big wrinkles under my eyes randomly for a week or so, or severely dry skin then I won’t notice as much in like a week or 2. It’s gonna be like that the entire time, you’re gonna fluctuate a lot.

Seriously, save yourself the hassle and stop stressing over shit like that, every time things switch up. Just keep on the straight and narrow, I’m telling you man it gets way better. Read through my thread if you want, I used to frequent the forum with all these questions about “is this normal” and all that, I should have just relaxed and let it fly, because I’m doing better now, 2 years later.

[Cdsnuts]

You’re in a weird stage right now where your body is trying to figure out what’s going on and things are off internally. That resulted in a lot of random bodily and neurological swings and changes, at least in my case. I still get big wrinkles under my eyes randomly for a week or so, or severely dry skin then I won’t notice as much in like a week or 2. It’s gonna be like that the entire time, you’re gonna fluctuate a lot.

Seriously, save yourself the hassle and stop stressing over shit like that, every time things switch up. Just keep on the straight and narrow, I’m telling you man it gets way better. Read through my thread if you want, I used to frequent the forum with all these questions about “is this normal” and all that, I should have just relaxed and let it fly, because I’m doing better now, 2 years later.

Sound advice.

And you're right in the proper time frame. If you would have went 100% from day one, you'd be even further along. But at least now you see....That's all that matters to me. Once they see, they recover. But they have to see it for themselves.

[Turnover25]

Sound advice.

And you're right in the proper time frame. If you would have went 100% from day one, you'd be even further along. But at least now you see....That's all that matters to me. Once they see, they recover. But they have to see it for themselves.

Agreed.

[Cdsnuts]

Update: Realized one thing. Yesterday, (this is the first time I did that), but I applied a solution of Jojoba Oil, Castor Oil, Rosemary Oil, and Peppermint Oil as a shampoo/conditioner, to keep it more natural. Apparently this can cause nipple sensitivity as well, I’m not sure. It could be either this, the Tongkat, or just a natural downswing. What course of action should I take here?

Well...the tongkat isn't estrogenic at all. It'll jack your T up which will then aromatise into estrogen. So if anything, that's the culprit. Tongkat is no joke. You can add in a natural AI along with it. Pine pollen, DIM, etc. (Neither of these are AI's by the way. I use a blanket term. They can both be used to flush excess estrogen from the system.

[Turnover25]

Man, I feel for you. The stage you’re in now is rough. But 2 years ago I said the same stuff, and I felt helpless. My life was a living hell. Just keep on pushing man, it’ll improve slowly. We’re talking like a couple years, so just chill and stick to what you’re doing and let yourself heal.

To answer you, yeah I felt like a bitch. Could not build muscle for the life of me, my muscles were like fat deposits and all squishy, face was fat, felt weak, it was like instead of building muscles I just produced more fat, no pumps in the gym, no feelings of masculinity, only anhedonia. Nobody talks about their symptoms really, I don’t. But I guarantee most guys on here are as bad as you. You’re in the early stages bud, time to relax and embrace the suck for a while.

[Outlaw]

Hey man I know we talk outside of here but I thought I'd bring some good vibes to your log.

I had everything you talk about. I started the protocol in March, but recrashed mid-april and then 2 weeks later. I felt like an asexual loser. Fastforward to the end of my 4th month on protocol, and I feel like myself, I feel confident and alpha around girls. I am also on my 40th day of no fap.

You have no idea how much progress I made in the last month. But you also have no idea how bad off I was 3 months ago. The point I'm trying to make is buckle up, because you don't know where you'll be in 3 months. A couple weeks ago you were reporting an upswing and saying 2 years on protocol will be easy if it stays this way. You can get back to that. Read my log and you'll see I was alternating between hope and despair non stop.

The protocol will heal us with time, but those downswings are nasty because each upswing leads you to believe we are out of the woods. One day you will hit a point where you will realize that you're still suffering, but that you made notable improvements that make you know that you will eventually recover. Just hustle to get there, and then live while things fix themselves in the background.

Much love

[Mojo]

Every down swing will either break you or make you stronger in the end. Make sure you gear up for the latter. Make pain your friend in these trying times, grind through it. Don’t give up and its a promise you will be a damn super human when this shit is over. Acknowledge the bad times but celebrate the good moments as much as you can, as little or short they may be.

[Tonster96]

Just want to add, that i had a bad expierience with collagen as well. Never took it since then...

[Hulk Smash]

A few tips for crushing this B.S.

1. Don't look in the mirror for a few months
2. Keep your cortisol(stress) levels down consistently (its a game changer)
3. Be consistent with TMO

Thats what helped get out of my slump quicker than ever.

[Ratchet_V2]

Hi HOPE,

I hope this finds you well. Would you mind pointing me in the direction of the pelvic floor dysfunction information you referenced on my thread? I.e subreddit, discord chats, etc? Specifics on exercises and therapies would be great! I’m really trying to rehab my unit and restore size that I think was lost due to PFD. I apologize in advance for posting here – I tried to DM, but something funky going on with your username. Thank you!

Ratchet

[Turnover25]

Inspiring turn of events here, I did a 24 hour fast after I had cheated on my diet a few days ago, but considering I’m feeling alright, and haven’t smoked in 24 hours, I’m willing to see how far I can go. It’ll shut up my doubts about my earlier fasts, give me a better reaction to the herbs, and is a great cleanse (last time I did a water fast I felt at about 70% recovered…!). Nonetheless, I think it’s worth it.

Bro I don’t think you’re in a downswing because you cheated on your diet 2 weeks ago.... it’s probably because you’re still smoking. Cmon dude

[Turnover25]

You think smoking (nicotine by the way, not weed) has that big of an effect? I think it was probably a more natrual downswing, and wasn’t why I planned on fasting, more so Maxouts posts on him fasting for 24 hours after eating gluten.

Yes I absolutely think that smoking cigs has that big of an effect, you’re shooting yourself in the foot

[Ratchet_V2]

Cold Turkey. Just body it. The first 4 days will be the worst. I don’t sleep. I’m delirious in bed at night. My short term memory and brain fog are awful. But after 4 days, sleep returns. Energy returns. Brain fog starts to dissipate after a week. It’s smooth sailing from then on out. The key is to not hit nic in any form until you know you’re ready to start up again. Not even once. I quit cold turkey a week ago. I feel great now. Best of luck to you – it’s always worth it.

[Mojo]

My way of stopping is not telling yourself you are quitting but rather tell yourself you will not smoke for a while and see how long you can stretch it. Then you realize the urge becomes less. Then at some point you will light up again and just feel smoking for what it is. You get nauseous, it burns your lungs and smells terrible.

[Turnover25]

You guys know it… I’m doing a cleanse without nicotine… feeling suicidal, urges to self-harm. There is absolutely no way I can go 7-days like this without killing someone. I plan to take a hit off of a nicotine vape (just 4 or 5 hits). Is my cleanse nullified thereafter, and should I re-do it? I can do everything down from the protocol at a 100%… but stopping nicotine will be the hardest thing.

It’s not the nicotine itself I think will harm you, but the chemicals and all sorts of other shit loaded in cigarettes. Vape pens are just as bad. You’re simply gonna hold yourself back by smoking, ask yourself if you’d rather smoke or stay in the spot you’re in, then make a decision off of that. Just pick it back up when you recover.

[Turnover25]

I definitely would rather recover in the quickest time. Unfortunately, however, the hallmark symptom of PSSD is complete emotional numbness, which I think the nicotine helps a lot. I’ve taken about 4 puffs now, and I’m back to feeling cool, calm, and relaxed even 2 days into this water fast. If it sets me back by however many months, I, with all regret, cannot stop smoking right now. It helps too much to ignore it. But I completely understand. I’m going to go at least 7 days during this fast, and I know I’ve said this before (partly because it helps me so much with my rushed decisions), is that I felt nearly cured after my initial cleanse which I smoked daily at. Matter of fact, it was Bankai, who I ironically met at a hard flaccid discord, that introduced me to the protocol. Dude explained this protocol to me, and I immediately jumped in the fast although I was skeptical. When I finished the fast, and felt pretty much cured that I doubted to Bankai whether or not I actually had PSSD, I knew this protocol was going to work.

God. Taking that damn pill had such a huge impact on me. Fuck it. Now, at this moment, more than ever - I must get my life back. I’m going to go as far as I can - yes even after smoking.
Cdsnuts, you’re probably disappointmented to hear I’ve gone and vaped during a cleanse, but I think I can heal eitherway. Everybody keep it fucking going.

I really do get where you’re coming from, I drank a lot during this process and slipped up a lot, but I did the protocol for like a solid year before I took in any toxins. At least give yourself that. Staying sober/straight edge sucks, but that’s what being a man is my guy. Doing a lot of shit you don’t want to do, because you have to

[Turnover25]

Are prohormones recommended for non-5AR inhibitor cases? Like PSSD for instance.

- - - Updated - - -

Didn’t mean to tag you there turnover bud

Excess DHT can lower serotonin which in the case of PSSD would be an issue for you I’d assume. But it’s a neurosteroid so I’d imagine it would help in that sense as well. I’ve always somewhat pondered the possibility that I may have pssd since I fucked around with SSRI’s and fin in the same time of my life, there’s no way to know, and I dont want to be a hypochondriac. But fin was the major breaking point where I crashed. But cycles make me an emotionless zombie for a month or 2 after I come off. It happened with Alchemy also who was pssd. But they also switch “on” my emotions during cycle.

[xxaleksi]

Excess DHT can lower serotonin which in the case of PSSD would be an issue for you I’d assume. But it’s a neurosteroid so I’d imagine it would help in that sense as well. I’ve always somewhat pondered the possibility that I may have pssd since I fucked around with SSRI’s and fin in the same time of my life, there’s no way to know, and I dont want to be a hypochondriac. But fin was the major breaking point where I crashed. But cycles make me an emotionless zombie for a month or 2 after I come off. It happened with Alchemy also who was pssd. But they also switch “on” my emotions during cycle.

That's interesting. I played around with 5-HTP and St Johns Wort which are similar to SSRIs about nine months before getting severe PFS. They crushed my libido. Also took minox for a month before taking fin and got sides from that as well. So adding fin was the worst thing I could've done but oh well you live and learn.

[Turnover25]

That's interesting. I played around with 5-HTP and St Johns Wort which are similar to SSRIs about nine months before getting severe PFS. They crushed my libido. Also took minox for a month before taking fin and got sides from that as well. So adding fin was the worst thing I could've done but oh well you live and learn.

I was kinda similar. My gf was a hair stylist and recommended minox to me, probably took it for about a year. In that year I developed an anxiety disorder out of nowhere, became a hermit, started drinking, and tried to medicate with SSRI’s numerous times, then took fin, was a zombie for about about another year, then tried fin again, that’s when it all explored on me. Had no idea what was going on during that time frame and never heard of pfs, but in hindsight today it all makes sense. My libido was also nuked before my big crash. This has been a long ordeal for me

[Turnover25]

Maxout777 Yo Max, Hope was asking if prohormones such as Ultrahard would be beneficial for those with PSSD. What do you think?

[RoadToRecovery]

On a water fast all you should do is rest nothing else. On my first ever water fast I fainted because I stood up too quickly.

[Maxout777]

Maxout777 Yo Max, Hope was asking if prohormones such as Ultrahard would be beneficial for those with PSSD. What do you think?

Hard to say, really. I don’t think they’ll hurt. As far as I know, PSSD is more serotonin system focused than PFS, again from what limited things I’ve read. If I was PSSD, I would almost look into things that are brain, and dopamine heavy, like cerebrolysin, 9-me-BC, BPC-157, etc.

I think the neurological benefits of androsterone will help for PSSD though. I’ve just never really personally helped/worked with a PSSD-case.

[Turnover25]

So you don’t think the protocol would work for PSSD?

That’s not what he’s saying, the protocol is a holistic healing approach to reset your system. Designed for many things under the sun. Many people on pssd forums follow a close outline of this protocol anyways, focusing on hormones as well as neurotransmitters. Same herbs etc.

[Turnover25]

Hard to say, really. I don’t think they’ll hurt. As far as I know, PSSD is more serotonin system focused than PFS, again from what limited things I’ve read. If I was PSSD, I would almost look into things that are brain, and dopamine heavy, like cerebrolysin, 9-me-BC, BPC-157, etc.

I think the neurological benefits of androsterone will help for PSSD though. I’ve just never really personally helped/worked with a PSSD-case.

What’s bpc157? Seen you list this several times

[RoadToRecovery]

Hard to say, really. I don’t think they’ll hurt. As far as I know, PSSD is more serotonin system focused than PFS, again from what limited things I’ve read. If I was PSSD, I would almost look into things that are brain, and dopamine heavy, like cerebrolysin, 9-me-BC, BPC-157, etc.

I think the neurological benefits of androsterone will help for PSSD though. I’ve just never really personally helped/worked with a PSSD-case.

How about post accutane syndrome. A guy on the whatsapp group said people with pfs have upregulated AR and people with PAS have downregulated AR.
I've already ordered my UH anyways. But now im realising it might not work the same since I have post accutane syndrome.

[Maxout777]

So you don’t think the protocol would work for PSSD?

Literally not what I said at all. I said I'm not sure of the prohormones affect on the mechanism of action related to PSSD. Even went as far as to offer some potential alternatives if the protocol didn't work. I would continue on doing what you're doing.


What’s bpc157? Seen you list this several times

What is BPC-157? - The Powerful Healing Peptide (https://www.lvluphealth.com/bpc-157-peptide-info/)

Can be taken orally (source above), sublingually (science.bio) or injected science.bio). It's great for recovery from injuries if injected into the localized site of injury, and orally/sublingually it's fantastic for gut health and even more fantastic for fixing/modulating the dopamine/serotonin system and neurosteroid system. Been the best treatment I've ever tried for PTSD, hands down.


How about post accutane syndrome. A guy on the whatsapp group said people with pfs have upregulated AR and people with PAS have downregulated AR.
I've already ordered my UH anyways. But now im realising it might not work the same since I have post accutane syndrome.

Again, it's hard for me to say. It makes sense that it would work. I also have never assisted anyone to recovery with post accutane (not because it doesn't work, more so we just haven't had any on this board). With anything in life, you've got to give it a try to see either way.

[Hulk Smash]

HOPE
Go on the fast for as long as recommended. I think TMO will help you. Its bound to improve anyone mentally and physically.

[Hulk Smash]

Thank you. To be honest, hearing that some veterans on the forum are unsure if the protocol works for PSSD really got me down.
Sometimes I want a direct "YES that issue will recover" but I don't get it.
At the end of the day, this protocol has every base covered. Might need to tweak something here or there but we have the general layout set. 👍🏻

[Maxout777]

Thank you. To be honest, hearing that some veterans on the forum are unsure if the protocol works for PSSD really got me down.

Again, no one said that. A specific question was asked referencing ONE PART of the entire protocol as it related to PSSD and I said I don’t know, as I didn’t have it, and didn’t have any specific experience helping people with it. Don’t turn my words into something else that hurts your mental state.

Edit: You honestly need to be more worried about improving willpower and not vaping during cleanses, etc. than polluting your mind with pointless thoughts like these.

[Cdsnuts]

What should I do if the protocol doesn’t work for PSSD? :/

The protocol is a body rebalancing lifestyle practice. You can never be penalized (biologically) for doing the right thing (following natural law) If you have any chance of recovering from ANYTHING that is ailing you, THIS protocol will do it. That's just biology.

You need to get ahold of your mental status so that you can direct yourself properly. Again, the protocol is there for that.

STOP over thinking and just start DOING. DO, for six months and then check in, re-adjust if necessary.

What should you do if the protocol doesn't work? You're putting the cart before the horse. Stop thinking of the future and be in the present. That's where everything happens. Not yesterday, not tomorrow..........NOW. It is always, now.

Put in the work exactly as laid out, and I guarantee you'll notice a difference in six months. Then go from there.

EXACTLY as laid out. I can't stress this enough.

[Cdsnuts]

I definitely would rather recover in the quickest time. Unfortunately, however, the hallmark symptom of PSSD is complete emotional numbness, which I think the nicotine helps a lot. I’ve taken about 4 puffs now, and I’m back to feeling cool, calm, and relaxed even 2 days into this water fast. If it sets me back by however many months, I, with all regret, cannot stop smoking right now. It helps too much to ignore it. But I completely understand. I’m going to go at least 7 days during this fast, and I know I’ve said this before (partly because it helps me so much with my rushed decisions), is that I felt nearly cured after my initial cleanse which I smoked daily at. Matter of fact, it was Bankai, who I ironically met at a hard flaccid discord, that introduced me to the protocol. Dude explained this protocol to me, and I immediately jumped in the fast although I was skeptical. When I finished the fast, and felt pretty much cured that I doubted to Bankai whether or not I actually had PSSD, I knew this protocol was going to work.

God. Taking that damn pill had such a huge impact on me. Fuck it. Now, at this moment, more than ever - I must get my life back. I’m going to go as far as I can - yes even after smoking.
Cdsnuts, you’re probably disappointmented to hear I’ve gone and vaped during a cleanse, but I think I can heal eitherway. Everybody keep it fucking going.

Dude....I'm not disappointed at all. You're not my kid.

I can only show you the way. You have to walk the path. We all have our own decisions to make regardless of anything else. You get what you put in. This is YOUR journey.

Mine's done. Thankfully.

You know what you need to do.

Remember: "You drown not by falling into the river, but by staying submerged in it." Paulo Coelo

[Cdsnuts]

I really do get where you’re coming from, I drank a lot during this process and slipped up a lot, but I did the protocol for like a solid year before I took in any toxins. At least give yourself that. Staying sober/straight edge sucks, but that’s what being a man is my guy. Doing a lot of shit you don’t want to do, because you have to

Aside from not having any blue print to follow, I also got fucked up more then I should have during my healing journey which is why it took as long as it did. That's why I'm so adamant about staying sober during the healing process because it does nothing but set you back. Believe me, I know more then I should.

[Turnover25]

Aside from not having any blue print to follow, I also got fucked up more then I should have during my healing journey which is why it took as long as it did. That's why I'm so adamant about staying sober during the healing process because it does nothing but set you back. Believe me, I know more then I should.

You probably lived my exact experience honestly, the reasons you sabotage yourself during healing and just wanting to let loose once in a while. It really wasn’t until I started feeling better that I really started letting loose and drinking more and more often. Took a while to finally realize it wasn’t worth it and that I’d rather just do another 6 months to a year sober to finally recover 100%.

You know how it is. People have to learn for themselves

[Cdsnuts]

Okay 😂, still feel amazing on this water fast but I got up too quickly and got dizzy and fell, even lost my vision there for a few seconds. Normal, or should I stop this?

This is normal when fasting. This is why at the clinic, they go through a whole check list of things you need to do to keep yourself from getting hurt. Standing up in stages is one of them. If laying down, sit up and turn your legs off the end of the bed. Wait 20 seconds......THEN, stand....wait 20 seconds.....then walk.

[Cdsnuts]

Even a worse day today smh. Feeling the worse I have since I started the protocol. I have currently binned the Collagen shake, as it may have something to do with this downswing, although I believe it to be a nocebo effect. My entire body is tight.
To make matters worse, and I hate to talk about this, but after lifting weights for around a month now I went in to check on my progress. Looked at the mirror, and realized damn… Lexapro… what the fuck did you do?! My hips are too wide, my body fat is all centered towards my lower stomach and love handles, my fucking ass seems much bigger too. Like I’ve been fucking feminized… wow. Motivation to stay on the protocol has never been higher to solve this shit, but that’s really disappointing. Head pressure has returned too. I’m dropping the Collagen. I don’t know what to say or do anymore… today, however, for the first time since getting this horrible condition, my thoughts have swayed a little bit. I no longer see it as an offense from a prescription medication, but an insult to my masculinity. I’m not even playing. Super disappointment and suicidal. Honestly, this is 100% downswing talk, but I don’t know. Need a few words of honest encouragement. I know I’m suppose to be doing the protocol, but other than CD, I don’t think anyone had these symptoms.
I really didn’t want to mention it, but I have to ask… Does anyone else feel like an absolute bitch? Literally. Like feeling feminine, and a shell of yourself too? I see no one talking about this part of it, but man do I feel my masculinity has been robbed away from me. Feminine hips, big ass, small nose looking motherfucker. Fuck it man. Need a few words of encouragement boys come on now.

Yes....I felt like a complete emotional bitch....when I even had emotions. Par for the course. Your masculinity HAS been robbed from you, which is why you need to do everything in your power to get it back. Hence, why you're here.

[Cdsnuts]

Didn’t want to mention it, but fuck it. Lost a close family member to COVID. 2 years ago the main man, 9 months ago a setback for a major comeback… now, dealing with a life changing condition with no cure. Tell me about fucking luck.

Life changing condition with no cure?

- - - Updated - - -


Makes sense. I really hope it works. Going through this fucking crap at 20 just seems like I’ve been sentenced to death.
Really don’t mean to be negative, as you guys shouldn’t worry, but if the protocol doesn’t work, I’ll definitely off my self after 2 years. Fuck it. Nothing to lose anymore :)

The protocol doesn't not work. People typically don't work the protocol. Don't get it twisted. You're young. You could be done by the time your 22......still a fucking baby wet behind the ears. You could come out unscathed and live a normal life.

[Cdsnuts]

You probably lived my exact experience honestly, the reasons you sabotage yourself during healing and just wanting to let loose once in a while. It really wasn’t until I started feeling better that I really started letting loose and drinking more and more often. Took a while to finally realize it wasn’t worth it and that I’d rather just do another 6 months to a year sober to finally recover 100%.

You know how it is. People have to learn for themselves

Unfortunately, that is the case.....even with myself. Always have to learn the hard way.....always. Human nature I guess.

And yeah, when you start to feel better, you think you can make yourself feel even better by getting a little tweaked.....Ironic...only when you feel better will you do things to make you feel worse......

[Cdsnuts]

Sounds enticing. I’m just hoping the protocol also works for PSSD. I have nothing to lose and everything to gain, so I will definitely do the protocol at a 100%. But if it just so happens to be that the protocol doesn’t work for PSSD, well then I’m fucked. That’s what I mean. I know it’s not what you guys do here, but fuck it. If it works, great, I’ll be a brand new me. If it doesn’t, hard luck, maybe I’ll get lucky in the afterlife or get reincarnated. ����‍♂️����‍♂️����‍♂️

Wrong mindset....again. It will work. That's it.

[Cdsnuts]

Crazy it makes much more sense now after I read the Baylor study. Did you guys get to reading that? Crazy. There will never be a magic pill.

We could have told you that and saved you the time on reading the study.

[Cdsnuts]

Yo CD which prohormones should I run for PSSD

I'm not well versed in PSSD and the intricacies it entails. PFS, different story.

I know you PSSD guys have alot of overlapping symptoms, so it would only benefit you to run a DHT based prohormone. I would go with either ultrahard or R andro topical. PM me for details.

[Cdsnuts]

Is it safe to use the bathmate while having pelvic floor dysfunction / shriveled narrow penis? Is that even a common symptom with you guys? Hard flaccid?

Yes, perfectly safe, when done correctly, like ANYTHING else. And yes, shriveled, narrow, hour glass shaped penis, hard flaccid......this our wheel house unfortunately. The pump will only benefit you. It gets a bad rap because guys fuck up the instructions and then blame the pump rather then just admitting it was operator error.

[algernon]

Excellent news man! Glad you updated this thread. So you feel mentally back to normal on upswings?

[GoldenSun]

What’s up, guys?
I’m here to report back on my experiences completing the protocol.
I have been on the protocol for a while now, although I’m not on it currently the past few days as I cheated with some gluten due to illness. Really need to stop doing that, and will start to become 100% disciplined once my body recovers from this crap.

Here’s the good news.
As a case of PSSD, I was terrified that this protocol will not work. I come with great news, then, because it does.

On upswings, I have felt at least 80% recovered sometimes. My anhedonia was bad enough that I would not react to a knife attack lifted, allowing me to sing along to my favorite songs again. The wittiness and intelligence that characterized me prior to this illness returned full force.
Sexually, while my erections are have yet to return 100%, they are much stronger on upswings and enough for sex. Pleasureless orgasms are no longer a thing and my libido is high enough to live my life totally normally. My muscles swell up and I feel like a total beast. The alpha male energy returns. I started checking girls out like crazy. I can’t imagine how much more confident I will be once this crap is over.
On upswings, the only symptoms I have remaining are:
- Slight ED (not ED, as in my erections are strong enough but there is that hourglass).
- Libido is maybe at 60-70%?
Everything else pretty much returns to normal.

Now, once this flu is over, I’m going absolutely all out on the protocol, but the fear that any of this crap is permanent does not intimidate me one bit.

I’m going to come out stronger than much of this.

The protocol works. Do it. Do it consistently, and you will see for yourself.

I’m not going to post again as I believe I can be fully recovered or 90%+ within the year. I’ve been to busy with university these days, but I will be back once I’m 100% and then some more.

Best of luck boys. Meditate. Meditate. Meditate.

Trust the process.

Great to hear bro. Did you do anything specific to adress the pelvic floor/ shrinkage stuff? I suffer from that heavily still