Outlaw's vacation at the Alpha Four resort (1st cycle)

[Outlaw]

Whatsup soldiers,

After 3,5 months on protocol, I will be starting my first cycle. The recommended prohormone is UltraHard, but since my last 2 bloodtests have shown low estrogen, CD has given me the green light to start with Alpha Four instead (as UH would have tanked my E even more. I have UltraHard bottles on the side and will switch mid-cycle if needed.

I have read of logs on the forum and these are the key points I have taken away when it comes to cycling. Please confirm and let me know if I'm missing anything:
- Apply in the morning to avoid sleep problems
- Drink coconut water to resplenish potassium
- Avoid masturbation if possible
- Eat a lot of carbs to resplenish glycogen
- Avoid road rage (thanks CD)

Couple quick questions and I'll be on my way
1) no herbs but pine pollen is still fine right?
2) can I backload with gluten free carbs during
the day or do I keep it on workout nights?
3) should I eat straight after I apply it in the
morning, or can I take my coffee and eat 1-2
hours later?

Really excited to start this cycle. I'm proud of myself for locking in 14 solid weeks of protocol and now I get to have some fun. Will use this cycle as an opportunity to work on the areas I'm lacking (meditation, pumping, HIIT 2x/week instead of 1). Remaining symptoms are variable ear problems (tinnitus, sound sensitivity, ear pressure), low libido, less sensitivity/more premature, slight girth loss.

Let's do it, any help/comments are welcome guys!

[Outlaw]

Yesterday was day 1, I took 3 pumps. 2 hours after applying I had slight euphoria and an energy boost like I needed to move. Didn't feel much for the rest of the day, slight fatigue maybe. Trained hard and ate the biggest backload of my life.

Day 2 today. Woke up with morning wood (I have it really irregularly) and applied 4 pumps. Didn't feel anything yet.

I know a lot of people don't feel anything before the 3rd week. I'll update when I notice something notable.

[LetsGo]

Good luck with your cycle, bro! If you’re not ultra-sensitive to stimulants like I am, what you’re using should be great. I can only use Super R-Andro because it’s straight androsterone. The epiandrosterone is a stimulant, and even 1 or 2 pumps at 8 AM will keep me awake until 3:30 AM, sadly. Just leaving this comment here for anyone else who is overly-sensitive to stimulants.

You might feel the prohormones and you might not, and it could change day by day or week by week. But if you’re feeling more energy, etc, that’s a good thing.

I think in general the best practices for carb meals is to have them post workout, while on the protocol. (Once you’re healed then eat carbs whenever it makes sense for you.) I don’t think carb backloading is as important as the herbs, workouts, and gluten-free, but it’s significant and worth doing.

I don’t think it's necessary/helpful to use the pine pollen powder during a cycle. The cycle is mildly suppressive and the pine pollen powder will not overcome that. I think you just want to let the prohormone do its thing and don’t take any herbs at that time.

Some people prefer a morning workout on an empty stomach, while others say that eating a light or medium breakfast gives them more strength in the gym. The timing of the coffee or whether to have it at all is also an individual thing. A small cup of Dunkin Donuts coffee at 8 AM will make me feel almost high for several hours (strong caffeine buzz,) and keep me wide awake until the early morning hours. For you, you might feel mildly more alert for 20 minutes. For normal people, it may make them feel more awake for 3 - 5 hours and not affect their sleep at all. Everybody is different and you can play around with the timing of the coffee and meal timing to find out what works for you.

[Outlaw]

Good luck with your cycle, bro! If you’re not ultra-sensitive to stimulants like I am, what you’re using should be great. I can only use Super R-Andro because it’s straight androsterone. The epiandrosterone is a stimulant, and even 1 or 2 pumps at 8 AM will keep me awake until 3:30 AM, sadly. Just leaving this comment here for anyone else who is overly-sensitive to stimulants.

You might feel the prohormones and you might not, and it could change day by day or week by week. But if you’re feeling more energy, etc, that’s a good thing.

I think in general the best practices for carb meals is to have them post workout, while on the protocol. (Once you’re healed then eat carbs whenever it makes sense for you.) I don’t think carb backloading is as important as the herbs, workouts, and gluten-free, but it’s significant and worth doing.

I don’t think it's necessary/helpful to use the pine pollen powder during a cycle. The cycle is mildly suppressive and the pine pollen powder will not overcome that. I think you just want to let the prohormone do its thing and don’t take any herbs at that time.

Some people prefer a morning workout on an empty stomach, while others say that eating a light or medium breakfast gives them more strength in the gym. The timing of the coffee or whether to have it at all is also an individual thing. A small cup of Dunkin Donuts coffee at 8 AM will make me feel almost high for several hours (strong caffeine buzz,) and keep me wide awake until the early morning hours. For you, you might feel mildly more alert for 20 minutes. For normal people, it may make them feel more awake for 3 - 5 hours and not affect their sleep at all. Everybody is different and you can play around with the timing of the coffee and meal timing to find out what works for you.
Ok thanks for the message man!

Yeah I'm good when it comes to stimulants. I take coffee at 8AM and 3PM and I sleep fine at night. I was just wondering if it was better to have food in your stomach when applying the PH. I'll drop the PP and will backload as a postworkout.

I've been following your log and you made good progress recently, it's really nice.

[Outlaw]

Day 3 today, applied 5 pumps.

Feeling like shit to be honest. Tinnitus is higher, and I have a lot of anxiety.

I thought since androsterone is a Gaba agonist that it would lower the tinnitus. Maybe the tinnitus simply follows my heightened anxiety. Will go back to 4 pumps to see if it lowers the anxiety.

As advised I will ride this thing out for at least 4 weeks since it works in the background.

[LetsGo]

Day 3 today, applied 5 pumps.

Feeling like shit to be honest. Tinnitus is higher, and I have a lot of anxiety.

I thought since androsterone is a Gaba agonist that it would lower the tinnitus. Maybe the tinnitus simply follows my heightened anxiety. Will go back to 4 pumps to see if it lowers the anxiety.

As advised I will ride this thing out for at least 4 weeks since it works in the background.

The biggest thing with tinnitus is that the more it bothers you emotionally, the louder it will get. When you’re focusing on it (trying to figure out if it’s getting softer or louder) you’re telling your brain that this is important, and it responds by increasing the sensitivity to that sound, aka making it louder.

Also yes, the more anxious you are, the louder the tinnitus gets.

Your tinnitus might or might not go away on this journey, but you can get to where you don’t notice it at all. I put in earplugs (which make tinnitus way louder) every night, and I still don’t even think about or notice my tinnitus.

[Outlaw]

The biggest thing with tinnitus is that the more it bothers you emotionally, the louder it will get. When you’re focusing on it (trying to figure out if it’s getting softer or louder) you’re telling your brain that this is important, and it responds by increasing the sensitivity to that sound, aka making it louder.

Also yes, the more anxious you are, the louder the tinnitus gets.

Your tinnitus might or might not go away on this journey, but you can get to where you don’t notice it at all. I put in earplugs (which make tinnitus way louder) every night, and I still don’t even think about or notice my tinnitus.
That's good advice, I'll work on not giving a fuck about it. It's hard because it's tied to PFS, which I have a hard time not caring about.

Also I notice it gets way higher after ejaculation, and it significantly lowers if I abstain for around 2 weeks. The fact that it's closely tied to my PFs leads me to believe it might go away with the rest of my symptoms. Since it varies greatly I doubt it's physical damage.

But honestly now that it lowered, if I could get my old life back and keep it, I would be a happy camper.

[MungYarlon]

That's good advice, I'll work on not giving a fuck about it. It's hard because it's tied to PFS, which I have a hard time not caring about.

Also I notice it gets way higher after ejaculation, and it significantly lowers if I abstain for around 2 weeks. The fact that it's closely tied to my PFs leads me to believe it might go away with the rest of my symptoms. Since it varies greatly I doubt it's physical damage.

But honestly now that it lowered, if I could get my old life back and keep it, I would be a happy camper.

Do you have any other issues after ejaculation (more pronounced brain fog etc.?)

[Outlaw]

Do you have any other issues after ejaculation (more pronounced brain fog etc.?)
Yeah it makes me crash mentally but I don't think it's brainfog. But I get depressed and lose my sense of being/confidence.

I got rid of brainfog in the first pfs month. My mental symptoms are more like lowered emotions and inability to speak as eloquently.

[Outlaw]

Day 4, four pumps.

No anxiety like yesterday. Tinnitus still a bit up. Maybe noticing some increased libido. I went to do some edging 4x today. Might also be because I was bored af with work from home. Still too subtle to definitely say, but I'll take it either way.

Also noticed that I can get a small chub from thoughts, and a full erection if I kind of fuck my bedsheets. The fact that I'm on Day #29 of no fap may also help. Sorry if any chast people are following this thread, I'll detail everything from start to finish hahah.

I have a stupid question. Has anybody ever applied a PH straight on their dick? My grade 4 science brain tells me it would obviously help the DHT starved tissues quicker. 100% science.

[Outlaw]

Day 5 and 6 (4 pumps) were fine anxiety-wise. Did music with friends, hung out at the park, played tennis. Felt fine. Would still think abojt PFS at some point during interactions, but unlike 4-6 weeks ago, I wasn't anxious to go, and had fun during.

I think I've been having allergies for the last 2 days. I'm sneezing like a madman and nose is full. Also feels like a tiny cold, so I don't know which one it is. I'd love for it to be a cold.

Also, I can feel some itch on my scalp from times to times. And had some acne on my triceps where I apply the Four.

[Outlaw]

Deleted my last post, because downswing doubt is strictly forbidden at the Alpha Four Resort. Will continue to update

[HOPE]

How’s it going my brother?

[Outlaw]

How’s it going my brother?
Last few days were better. I made the mistake of eating rice at noon on Monday, and it brought back anxiety and rubbery skin in my face and junk. I was convinced I read somewhere here that we can eat gluten free carbs allday on cycle, but fuck that I'll be keeping it on backloads only.
Also noticed voice is a bit deeper, and I'm more impatient. Like I don't have time to put up with useless bullshit. Also had a partial chub from a picture of a girl, which is insane for me.
Not much change in libido, but I'm at day 33 of nofap and I feel like I've hit a plateau where it's easier to abstain.

[Outlaw]

Hey had dinner with my mom and I didn't realize her chicken was coated in flour. I must've ingested 1/4 cup of flour.

Should I do a 2 day fast? My bad if it seems over the top, I just wanna do everything right

[Zonz]

Yes, do a 2-day fast, drink a liter of water, and go for a few mile walk.

[Outlaw]

And I keep the cycle?

[HOPE]

And I keep the cycle?

From what I recall, breaking on your diet once is not too big of an issue. One of CDs and Maxouts posts regarding the same question was to fast for 24 hours if possible, or do nothing and just carry on.

[Maxout777]

Normally I would say do a day fast, but you’re on cycle and that’s just not going to be possible. Drink a lot of water, eat fresh, sleep well, and go for some long walks if possible. Keep pushing through the cycle. Gluten symptoms should be gone in ~24 hours or so.

[Outlaw]

Thanks for all the responses guys. It's great to know people will chime in when you need quick advice.

I'll drink a lot of water and walk. I feel ok this morning.

[Outlaw]

Been running 5 pumps for the last 3 days and I don't notice much. I read CD say on xxaleksi's thread that the Four was strong and that 2 pumps should be plenty. I guess I'm still too early in my recovery to feel it.

[HOPE]

Been running 5 pumps for the last 3 days and I don't notice much. I read CD say on xxaleksi's thread that the Four was strong and that 2 pumps should be plenty. I guess I'm still too early in my recovery to feel it.
Based on my readings, it’s completely normal not to feel your first cycle while in a PFS state. Read Rickys thread if I’m not mistaken.

[Outlaw]

Yeah I'm letting things work in the background. I also read that it took Turnover 1-2 months postcycle to notice his first cycle's improvements. So even if I feel nothing, the snapback might treat me well

[Outlaw]

The last 2 days I had my most normal days mentally since this nightmare started.

I was with family in the cottage and I felt like myself. Might be the combination of nofap and Alpha Four, but I have some flickers of my oldself, mainly confidence-wise, awareness of my own person.

Sexually it seems to be getting better but progress is super slow, and fluctuates. It's also hard to quantify libido when it's been over a month of nofap. But recently I've been edging 2-4x/day. I know I should reduce that. It's not a raging need like prePFS, but unlike a couple months ago, I am clearly not doing it purely to test if it works.

Tinnitus still there, fluctuates through the day. I've had it significantly reduced for a couple days so I still have hope it will go away. It is possible that PH raise tinnitus, since they impact GABA? Maybe the snapback will quiet it.

Will continue to update with a lot of details even if the thread is quiet. It helps me remember my progress in downswings, and I hope it will help others in the future. This thing takes times to heal and it seems like there are many transitory phases of healing. But for some reason I stay focused on what's left and I think that I still have PFS to the same degree. We have to celebrate each one. The progress I made in 4 months is crazy.

[Outlaw]

The last 2 days I had my most normal days mentally since this nightmare started.

I was with family in the cottage and I felt like myself. Might be the combination of nofap and Alpha Four, but I have some flickers of my oldself, mainly confidence-wise, awareness of my own person.

Sexually it seems to be getting better but progress is super slow, and fluctuates. It's also hard to quantify libido when it's been over a month of nofap. But recently I've been edging 2-4x/day. I know I should reduce that. It's not a raging need like prePFS, but unlike a couple months ago, I am clearly not doing it purely to test if it works.

Tinnitus still there, fluctuates through the day. I've had it significantly reduced for a couple days so I still have hope it will go away. It is possible that PH raise tinnitus, since they impact GABA? Maybe the snapback will quiet it.

Will continue to update with a lot of details even if the thread is quiet. It helps me remember my progress in downswings, and I hope it will help others in the future. This thing takes times to heal and it seems like there are many transitory phases of healing. But for some reason I stay focused on what's left and I think that I still have PFS to the same degree. We have to celebrate each one. The progress I made in 4 months is crazy.
Backloaded yesterday with rice, and once again started feeling bad. Anxiety, tinnitus, rubbery skin. It's crazy, the effect is felt within 2-3h. I'm beginning to see a clear pattern that recently backloading is always followed by a rise of symptoms. The correlation is too direct for it to only be randlm downswings. I will stop it for some time.

Last few days haven't been as good, but still better than pre-cycle. Gotta keep grinding

[Jado]

Whatsup soldiers,

After 3,5 months on protocol, I will be starting my first cycle. The recommended prohormone is UltraHard, but since my last 2 bloodtests have shown low estrogen, CD has given me the green light to start with Alpha Four instead (as UH would have tanked my E even more. I have UltraHard bottles on the side and will switch mid-cycle if needed.

I have read of logs on the forum and these are the key points I have taken away when it comes to cycling. Please confirm and let me know if I'm missing anything:
- Apply in the morning to avoid sleep problems
- Drink coconut water to resplenish potassium
- Avoid masturbation if possible
- Eat a lot of carbs to resplenish glycogen
- Avoid road rage (thanks CD)

Couple quick questions and I'll be on my way
1) no herbs but pine pollen is still fine right?
2) can I backload with gluten free carbs during
the day or do I keep it on workout nights?
3) should I eat straight after I apply it in the
morning, or can I take my coffee and eat 1-2
hours later?

Really excited to start this cycle. I'm proud of myself for locking in 14 solid weeks of protocol and now I get to have some fun. Will use this cycle as an opportunity to work on the areas I'm lacking (meditation, pumping, HIIT 2x/week instead of 1). Remaining symptoms are variable ear problems (tinnitus, sound sensitivity, ear pressure), low libido, less sensitivity/more premature, slight girth loss.

Let's do it, any help/comments are welcome guys!

Hey bro, glad you're trying your first cycle. Just curious... what was your E level? I've tried a couple cycles, two with Super R Andro and one with Androhard. I always end up with anxiety/depression/de-realization. I'm wondering if it may be dropping my E level too much... Keep pluggin' away man, we'll all beat this crap.

[Outlaw]

Hey bro, glad you're trying your first cycle. Just curious... what was your E level? I've tried a couple cycles, two with Super R Andro and one with Androhard. I always end up with anxiety/depression/de-realization. I'm wondering if it may be dropping my E level too much... Keep pluggin' away man, we'll all beat this crap.
Hey man,

2nd week of March my E was less than 60 nmol/L (lab doesnt show below 60 apparently), and 3 weeks ago it was at 77 (which is still below the 95~200 range).

So far I feel the best I've ever felt since this started. Managed a couple erections from visual stimulation, libido and perception of women seems a bit better, and mentally I just feel more confident/like myself. Obviously not anything like before in either category, but still a glimpse of normalcy. Only downside if I consistently wake up about an hour before my alarm, so perharps impacted sleep.

I will try a typical Ultrahard cycle for my next one, so perhaps I'll be able to tell you the difference.

Keep it up man, this shit is intense but I'm convinced it has an end

[Jado]

Hey man,

2nd week of March my E was less than 60 nmol/L (lab doesnt show below 60 apparently), and 3 weeks ago it was at 77 (which is still below the 95~200 range).

So far I feel the best I've ever felt since this started. Managed a couple erections from visual stimulation, libido and perception of women seems a bit better, and mentally I just feel more confident/like myself. Obviously not anything like before in either category, but still a glimpse of normalcy. Only downside if I consistently wake up about an hour before my alarm, so perharps impacted sleep.

I will try a typical Ultrahard cycle for my next one, so perhaps I'll be able to tell you the difference.

Keep it up man, this shit is intense but I'm convinced it has an end

Thanks, man. I agree we'll get through this nonsense. Gotta keep pushing.

[Outlaw]

Heavy downswing at the resort today. Debilitating tinnitus, depression, brainfog, 0 libido, suicidal thoughts. Might be because I slept 6h last night, or just a normal downswing from the cycle.

I improved over 4 months but not gonna lie my hope is always really low during these downswings.

Cant give up

[Outlaw]

I've been taking 5 pumps for the last 2 weeks, maybe I need to lower to 4. I feel like absolute shit, if I could painlessly die I would.

I'm gonna keep going until 4 weeks, hopefully it will help in the background.

[Jado]

I've been taking 5 pumps for the last 2 weeks, maybe I need to lower to 4. I feel like absolute shit, if I could painlessly die I would.

I'm gonna keep going until 4 weeks, hopefully it will help in the background.

Keep going, bro. It will pass, just keep that at the forefront of your mind.

[Maximilien]

Hi Outlaw, can't help you on that. I'm just passing by to give you strength ✊��

[HOPE]

Also had one of my worst days with this crap. Keep going young king! If you ever need someone to talk to, you have my number. I’m feeling like absolute shit on this cleanse, but whatever is necessary to recover we must do.

[Outlaw]

Thank you for the messages guys, this shit sucks but this community is wholesome. Sorry for spreading some downswing doubt, I forgot it was strictly forbidden at the Alpha Four Resort.

And HOPE, I hope you know the same applies for you. Keep grinding man, one day we are meeting for that recovery beer. Probably not tomorrow, next week or next month, but that day is there somewhere ahead.

[xxaleksi]

Just keep going and ignore your thoughts. Easier said than done, I know, but you gotta do it. Just follow the protocol and give it TIME. That's all you have to do.

My mind always told me I was the most severe case ever and would never get better, that I had no choice but to end it, even when I'd make progress my mind would make me doubt it. I believe the GABA disruption from fin is what causes these thoughts and worries. Now I actually feel better than pre pfs most days. Not to brag or anything but I actually feel bulletproof some days lol. The confidence and well being feels amazing.

Five pumps of Alpha Four made me an emotional pussy and also shut me down a bit lol. Keep an eye on it.

[Outlaw]

Just keep going and ignore your thoughts. Easier said than done, I know, but you gotta do it. Just follow the protocol and give it TIME. That's all you have to do.

My mind always told me I was the most severe case ever and would never get better, that I had no choice but to end it, even when I'd make progress my mind would make me doubt it. I believe the GABA disruption from fin is what causes these thoughts and worries. Now I actually feel better than pre pfs most days. Not to brag or anything but I actually feel bulletproof some days lol. The confidence and well being feels amazing.

Five pumps of Alpha Four made me an emotional pussy and also shut me down a bit lol. Keep an eye on it.
Thanks for logging in king.

Following the protocol is easy. Being patient is a different thing.

Yeah maybe my GABA is fucked because I have some pretty good tinnitus, which has been showed to be caused my low GABA. This is my biggest fear. I believe the protocol will cure me but I'm afraid I will keep the T. It is by far my most annoying symptom (honestly more than depression and anxiety). I know Turnover got rid of his with a cycle and some B vitamins.

Does anyone know how long I should keep my cycle? I read 4-6 weeks in the stickies.. am I better to keep it at 4 for my 1st cycle or can it benefit if I push to 6? My 2nd and 3rd week gave me an upswing, and now I am a bit below my baseline pre-cycle. But I could push and extra 2 weeks.

[Turnover25]

Thanks for logging in king.

Following the protocol is easy. Being patient is a different thing.

Yeah maybe my GABA is fucked because I have some pretty good tinnitus, which has been showed to be caused my low GABA. This is my biggest fear. I believe the protocol will cure me but I'm afraid I will keep the T. It is by far my most annoying symptom (honestly more than depression and anxiety). I know Turnover got rid of his with a cycle and some B vitamins.

Does anyone know how long I should keep my cycle? I read 4-6 weeks in the stickies.. am I better to keep it at 4 for my 1st cycle or can it benefit if I push to 6? My 2nd and 3rd week gave me an upswing, and now I am a bit below my baseline pre-cycle. But I could push and extra 2 weeks.

First cycle might be best to do 4 weeks, but if you feel good keep at it. I went 12 weeks this last cycle with huge benefits

[Outlaw]

First cycle might be best to do 4 weeks, but if you feel good keep at it. I went 12 weeks this last cycle with huge benefits
Another absolute legend visiting the resort.

Thanks man, I'll try to push for 6 weeks.

Although my anxiety/tinnitus/depression has recently risen from this cycle, I must admit it helped with erection quality and sensitivity. Still going strong at day 48 of nofap, I'm going for at least 100.

[xxaleksi]

Go for 4-5 weeks on your first run imo.

I had tinnitus pre fin which then got a lot worse during pfs. Now it's back to how it was pre fin. I don't even notice it really. So there's definitely hope it'll go away at least to a good degree.

[Outlaw]

Go for 4-5 weeks on your first run imo.

I had tinnitus pre fin which then got a lot worse during pfs. Now it's back to how it was pre fin. I don't even notice it really. So there's definitely hope it'll go away at least to a good degree.
That's encouraging stuff.

Its weird because it's not only tinnitus, but also sound sensivity and cracking ears. I used to listen to music at least at 75% of volume, and now 30% is too much. Even the announcing voice in the metro makes me cringe. Since it fluctuates, I hope there is no physical damage and one day it will go away

[Hulk Smash]

That's encouraging stuff.

Its weird because it's not only tinnitus, but also sound sensivity and cracking ears. I used to listen to music at least at 75% of volume, and now 30% is too much. Even the announcing voice in the metro makes me cringe. Since it fluctuates, I hope there is no physical damage and one day it will go away

Outlaw
The sound sensitivity went away for me with time and no significant loss in hearing. I suggest using ear plugs when in loud environments just to be safe, until sensitivity normalizes.

[Turnover25]

That's encouraging stuff.

Its weird because it's not only tinnitus, but also sound sensivity and cracking ears. I used to listen to music at least at 75% of volume, and now 30% is too much. Even the announcing voice in the metro makes me cringe. Since it fluctuates, I hope there is no physical damage and one day it will go away

I had bad sensitivity in my eyes with light. Grocery stores were my biggest fear. Finally improved

[Outlaw]

That's great news Hulk Smash. How long did it take you?

Turnover25 man that symptom must've sucked at the beginning, good thing it's gone. What B vitamins did you take? I read your thread but I'm not sure I understand what you took. I'd like to avoid methylated vitamins.. can simply taking a B12 help my tinnitus? Or B12 and folate? I'm honestly lost with this vitamin talk, I'd like to see if B helps but your methyl crash scares me and I just wanna play it safe

[Turnover25]

That's great news Hulk Smash. How long did it take you?

Turnover25 man that symptom must've sucked at the beginning, good thing it's gone. What B vitamins did you take? I read your thread but I'm not sure I understand what you took. I'd like to avoid methylated vitamins.. can simply taking a B12 help my tinnitus? Or B12 and folate? I'm honestly lost with this vitamin talk, I'd like to see if B helps but your methyl crash scares me and I just wanna play it safe

I took methylated vitamins lol. I’d steer clear

[Outlaw]

I took methylated vitamins lol. I’d steer clear
Got you hahah

But didn't you say you think the B vitamins helped your tinnitus (along with your 1st cycle)? You think a B12 could help?

[Turnover25]

Got you hahah

But didn't you say you think the B vitamins helped your tinnitus (along with your 1st cycle)? You think a B12 could help?

I think they helped. But I was taking methyl folate and methyl b12 with a b complex with C (doesn’t include folate or b12) but my initial reaction just isn’t worth the risk. I think a normal b complex would be something to try if you wanted, don’t do methyl. If it makes you feel bad just stop. I really attribute most of my success this far to cycling.

[Hulk Smash]

Outlaw, I think about 1 year or less.
Could've healed faster if I was consistent.

[Maxout777]

Shouldn't be hard to hit all your B vitamin requirements in diet, fellas. If you're not, use a cronometer to help tweak to get you there. I get more than my 100% requirement every single day.

Diet FIRST, Supplement LATER. Keep this in mind when it comes to micronutrients, especially fat soluble and water soluble vitamins.

[Outlaw]

Ok thanks for the input guys, I'll try ti hit it with diet and will maybe add a b complex down the line.

10 days left on this 1st cycle. Here's what happened so far

1st week
- Not much, felt some extra energy the 1st
day, maybe a bit more anxiety

2nd and 3rd week
- A sense of normalcy returned, I could feel
like myself a bit more. I felt like making jokes
sometimes (compared to never)
- Was able to get a 50% erection from
thoughts (groundbreaking accomplishment
for me)
- More easily aroused from thoughts/visual


4th week
- Got morning wood couple days in a row
- Got 1 spontaneous erection 3 days in a row,
which I have almost never had before (it's a
bitch to conceal when wearing tight office
pants)
- Noticed my abs were way more visible
when flexing. I have less bloat, I look like I'm
sucking my stomach in but I'm not
- Sense of normalcy faded, and more anxiety

Other things I noticed is that lack of sleep seriously affects me. The days I was running on 5-6 hours brought me close to the despair of my first months mentally. Sleep was not impacted on this cycle really. I had 2-3 days where I woke up 1 hour before my alarm but that's it.

Emotions wise I can laugh sometimes at jokes or videos (I was a zombie before), but the frequency and the intensity of my emotions is still lacking. I have to fake interest in a lot of situations.

Mentally I have been pretty sharp. I presented a 15min presentation without reading anything in at work in front of a lot of people and I was just as sharp as I used to be. My recovery in this department is quite good.

Penis sensitivity has also maybe improved a bit. It fluctuates day to day when edging. When flaccid, the texture is doing good. It used to be really thin and rubber, with a sticky texture.

All in all, except for a few bad days and the tinnitus (which has occasionnaly risen beyond baseline), I am doing the best I have ever been on this cycle. My bad for all those details but it helps me see that there is an upward trend. Otherwise the progress is so slow that you take it for granted and think you're stalling. I realize that I'm improving when I compare myself to 3 months ago. I honestly can't wait to get back on the herbs and see if the snapback helps (especially tinnitus)

[Maxout777]

Ok thanks for the input guys, I'll try ti hit it with diet and will maybe add a b complex down the line.

10 days left on this 1st cycle. Here's what happened so far

1st week
- Not much, felt some extra energy the 1st
day, maybe a bit more anxiety

2nd and 3rd week
- A sense of normalcy returned, I could feel
like myself a bit more. I felt like making jokes
sometimes (compared to never)
- Was able to get a 50% erection from
thoughts (groundbreaking accomplishment
for me)
- More easily aroused from thoughts/visual


4th week
- Got morning wood couple days in a row
- Got 1 spontaneous erection 3 days in a row,
which I have almost never had before (it's a
bitch to conceal when wearing tight office
pants)
- Noticed my abs were way more visible
when flexing. I have less bloat, I look like I'm
sucking my stomach in but I'm not
- Sense of normalcy faded, and more anxiety

Other things I noticed is that lack of sleep seriously affects me. The days I was running on 5-6 hours brought me close to the despair of my first months mentally. Sleep was not impacted on this cycle really. I had 2-3 days where I woke up 1 hour before my alarm but that's it.

Emotions wise I can laugh sometimes at jokes or videos (I was a zombie before), but the frequency and the intensity of my emotions is still lacking. I have to fake interest in a lot of situations.

Mentally I have been pretty sharp. I presented a 15min presentation without reading anything in at work in front of a lot of people and I was just as sharp as I used to be. My recovery in this department is quite good.

Penis sensitivity has also maybe improved a bit. It fluctuates day to day when edging. When flaccid, the texture is doing good. It used to be really thin and rubber, with a sticky texture.

All in all, except for a few bad days and the tinnitus (which has occasionnaly risen beyond baseline), I am doing the best I have ever been on this cycle. My bad for all those details but it helps me see that there is an upward trend. Otherwise the progress is so slow that you take it for granted and think you're stalling. I realize that I'm improving when I compare myself to 3 months ago. I honestly can't wait to get back on the herbs and see if the snapback helps (especially tinnitus)

Great news. Remember, the 4-Andro is just to give you a test base and alpha boost to mitigate some of the low estrogen issues and GABA-related issues you’ll get on androsterone from blasting GABA. The real magic is done from androsterone and you should see it post cycle with GABA related improvements among others. Keep at it.

[Outlaw]

Great news. Remember, the 4-Andro is just to give you a test base and alpha boost to mitigate some of the low estrogen issues and GABA-related issues you’ll get on androsterone from blasting GABA. The real magic is done from androsterone and you should see it post cycle with GABA related improvements among others. Keep at it.
Hey Max, thanks for the knowledge, I was under the impression that only UltraHard affected GABA, but it's true, there is also androsterone in the Four. Maybe that's why my tinnitus has been a bit higher.

Looking forward to this snapback more than Christmas as a kid.

[Outlaw]

My last 5-10 days were extremely solid. Mostly mentally; no anxiety/despair, felt confident/myself, and connected to reality (first months I was like in a videogame, it got better but this made be realize I still wasnt fully connected). Erect sensitivity/rubber flaccid skin also got better. Tinnitus was still there tho.

I ate some Mandys salad on wednesday and a lemonade on thursday and since then my dick got more rubbery. I made sure there were no carbs in the salad so I don't know whatup with that. Also I usually completely avoid sugar but I dont think that 1 glass of lemonade in my backloading window is a huge deal either. Maybe it's just the up and down of the cycle. My sleep is also impacted (wake up once or twice per night).

Finally I take bacopa because it can help tinnitus my upping GABA through ALP (thanks Joe). However this morning I took 2 caps on an empty stomach and I got mad diarhea hahah. Googled it and it's a side effect so just watchout for that, it was a phenomenal spectacle

Last application of Alpha Four is monday, making it 5 weeks. Cant wait for the snapback. I will continue to grind at 100% to maximize it

[Outlaw]

Heavy downswing. Anxiety, rubbery dick, no libido, tinnitus up, completely depressed.

Gonna go run and hit a cold shower to ride it out.

I don't know why this happens. I forgot to drink coconut water for the last 4 days, and I reincorporated tomatoes in my diet. Might be that, or just the cycle starting to wear on me. I don't know and I don't care to be honest, I just hope one day I will be whole. What a life

Keep grinding

[RoadToRecovery]

Heavy downswing. Anxiety, rubbery dick, no libido, tinnitus up, completely depressed.

Gonna go run and hit a cold shower to ride it out.

I don't know why this happens. I forgot to drink coconut water for the last 4 days, and I reincorporated tomatoes in my diet. Might be that, or just the cycle starting to wear on me. I don't know and I don't care to be honest, I just hope one day I will be whole. What a life

Keep grinding

It's weird how we can feel decent and feel like we're one our way to recovery one day. And be back to ground 0 the next day.
But I guess that is part of the journey of our recovery.

[Outlaw]

Yeah man if you look at my recovery thread it's a rollercoaster.

However even in the lows I'm always still noticably better than 2 months ago. Upward trend.

Hope you're good

[Outlaw]

Yo quick question for you guys.

I read an old post where CD said pine pollen flushes extra estrogen. Does this mean that when we are coming off cycle (with tanked estrogen), we should watch out and take small doses of PP to avoid lowering our tanked estrogen?

I'm back on PP and herbs but was just curious

[Maxout777]

Yo quick question for you guys.

I read an old post where CD said pine pollen flushes extra estrogen. Does this mean that when we are coming off cycle (with tanked estrogen), we should watch out and take small doses of PP to avoid lowering our tanked estrogen?

I'm back on PP and herbs but was just curious

Go by feel. There were times in recovery I couldn't tolerate Pine Pollen. I know CD recommends it, but he dealt with high estrogen as opposed to low estrogen. If you feel worse on it, just save it for later.

[Outlaw]

Go by feel. There were times in recovery I couldn't tolerate Pine Pollen. I know CD recommends it, but he dealt with high estrogen as opposed to low estrogen. If you feel worse on it, just save it for later.
Thanks Maxout, you've been helping guys a lot recently and I think we all appreciate it greatly.

I must be 70-75% recovered and I still doubt greatly. I have proof of improvements but yet I still focus on the remaining 30%. Seeing active recovered guys is huge for mindset.

It's my 2nd day back on herbs. I will update this thread for the next 5 weeks to track the snapback, and then I'm jumping on another cycle.

[Outlaw]

Prior to PFS I had red plaques on the top on my head in my hair, and at my hairline. I was using Nizoral (ketazol shampoo) for 3-4 months to help with that. Maybe that's why I crashed from a single pill: I was using for a couple months prior and also applied some on the day I took the pill.

Anyway, these plaques were gone since my crash and they've been back for the last week, so it might be good news. Might apply some ketazol shampoo to treat it, and maybe some finasteride while I'm at it. First pill was great.

[Outlaw]

Tinnitus way up, and dick is rubbery like it has never been in the last 2 months. Is this to be expected during the snapback?

[Outlaw]

Just had my worst sleep since my first 2 months of PFS. Woke up 5 times and took time to fall asleep each time. My dragon is also more rubbery.

Didn't change a single variable, so I'm hoping this is good news and it's my body readjusting in the snapback.

All in due time

[Outlaw]

Sleep was better last night.

I can really feel things change in my body. But it's so subtle. On Saturday I was looking forward to the UFC's main event, which is huge because in 8 months of PFS I never looked forward to something. Also my tinnitus was lower when going to bed last night and when I woke up (for like 2min). It was such a great feeling even though it didn't last. It's weird, it seems to lower after long studio sessions.

Anyway, I'll update in a week or 2 because things are very volatile right now

[Outlaw]

So I have been in snapback in the last 3 weeks and things were yoyoing.

Mentally it gave me improvements: I felt more like myself, better mood, looking forward to stuff. Sexually the texture of my snake got rubbery, and then recently improved to where it was during cycle. Libido is still lower than it was during cycle. My tinnitus got lower for a few days too, so I hope it's not permanent.

However I have bad news, an hour ago I busted by accident while edging. And I didn't feel much...I feel really bad at myself. I was at day 81. I'm starting again, this time I'm going to 100 without edging.

I hope this mistake won't make me crash like ejaculation has made me crash in the past. I was slowly doing better, I hope it will continue.

[Outlaw]

Came last night to see if the anorgasmia was due to my long no fap. It was not, I still felt nothing.

Seems like I still have a long way to go. Now 1 day later I feel like absolute shit. I can't believe it's been 8 months and 1 pill altered me.

Feel like giving up but I won't

[Outlaw]

Pretty sure my tinnitus is caused by Eustachian Tube Dysfunction. My ears crackle and pop, and I can eliminate the sound sensitivity in the metro by yawning (moving the tubes). Would also explain why it fluctuates. And would make sense because it's not only tinnitus, it also feels like my hearing is impaired in a way.

Read online and the way is to treat the underlying cause, which is what Im doing. Also read that long term untreated ETD can cause ear damage, which could explain why people that had PFS for a long time before recovering (like Cd) still have some tinnitus. Just trying to make sense of it all.

Took a few steps back after coming twice in 4 days, I have circles under eyes, dick more rubbery and tinnitus up a little bit. But its encouraging, because it's no where near as bad as the hell I was in after indulging twice a week in May.

I'm going all in on this shit. Will finally incorporate meditation today, pumping and daily green juice with calcium, pine pollen and shilajit (just arrived).

QUESTION: On August 24th it will be 5 weeks off cycle (after a 5 weeks cycle). Can I do another cycle? The sticky says 8 weeks between cycle, but I read numerous threads of people doing equal portions of cycle and herbs.

[Marquis]

Pretty sure my tinnitus is caused by Eustachian Tube Dysfunction. My ears crackle and pop, and I can eliminate the sound sensitivity in the metro by yawning (moving the tubes). Would also explain why it fluctuates. And would make sense because it's not only tinnitus, it also feels like my hearing is impaired in a way.

Read online and the way is to treat the underlying cause, which is what Im doing. Also read that long term untreated ETD can cause ear damage, which could explain why people that had PFS for a long time before recovering (like Cd) still have some tinnitus. Just trying to make sense of it all.

Took a few steps back after coming twice in 4 days, I have circles under eyes, dick more rubbery and tinnitus up a little bit. But its encouraging, because it's no where near as bad as the hell I was in after indulging twice a week in May.

I'm going all in on this shit. Will finally incorporate meditation today, pumping and daily green juice with calcium, pine pollen and shilajit (just arrived).

QUESTION: On August 24th it will be 5 weeks off cycle (after a 5 weeks cycle). Can I do another cycle? The sticky says 8 weeks between cycle, but I read numerous threads of people doing equal portions of cycle and herbs.

If you're doing the Wim Hof breathing exercises, make sure not to "squeeze" the breath hold after your 30-40 intakes of breath (contrary to the usual instructions). I have a friend who developed tinnitus this way, and have read other accounts online of people who developed tinnitus from breathing exercises - the probable culprit is squeezing the breath hold, resulting in an increase of pressure in the airways and in the head.

[Outlaw]

If you're doing the Wim Hof breathing exercises, make sure not to "squeeze" the breath hold after your 30-40 intakes of breath (contrary to the usual instructions). I have a friend who developed tinnitus this way, and have read other accounts online of people who developed tinnitus from breathing exercises - the probable culprit is squeezing the breath hold, resulting in an increase of pressure in the airways and in the head.
Thanks for the input man, I'll watch out for that.

However for me there's no doubt it's caused by fin, it's the first symptom that appeared 6 hours after the pill and never left. But I must say it got better since December. It used to be a fire alarm distracting me allday, and now I must notice it once an hour if I stay home.

Will try to kill it with B-Complex (without methyl) following Turnover's advice. And I hope my next cycle will help, since the UH has more androsterone than the AlphaFour, which should help with gaba (if I understand correctly)

[Maximilien]

Pretty sure my tinnitus is caused by Eustachian Tube Dysfunction. My ears crackle and pop, and I can eliminate the sound sensitivity in the metro by yawning (moving the tubes). Would also explain why it fluctuates. And would make sense because it's not only tinnitus, it also feels like my hearing is impaired in a way.

Hi Outlaw, your supposition is probably right! I developed ETD over the course of a few months, along with tinnitus, hearing impairments and sound sensitivities. Now it evolved into a catharrh inflammation: it's similar, mucous membranes are inflamed and it causes annoying symptoms.

The good news is that these days it goes away almost completely sometime. Hearing apparently goes back to normal, and the tinnitus goes away too (some days I had like 3 to 4 different tones, loud af).

Do you notice worsening of symptoms after eating some food ? I think that it may comes from the gut (even if you don't have apparent symptoms) wether it's leaky gut, food sensitivities or a dysbiosis. In my opinion, a lot of PFS symptoms comes from there since Finasteride modulate the gut microbiota composition (PSSD sufferer probably have gut issues as well)
In my case, after a 6-days fast, it is more obvious that what I eat and how I treat my gut influences my state. I have yet to find what precisely mess me up.

Also the tinnitus sometimes goes away after a shower, I wonder if it is because it "relax" inner membranes or because it modulate the vagus nerve.

I have to make an update since I had great progresses but I'm too lazy ftm lol

[Maximilien]

If you're doing the Wim Hof breathing exercises, make sure not to "squeeze" the breath hold after your 30-40 intakes of breath (contrary to the usual instructions)

Sorry english isn't my first language. I don't understand what "squeezing the breath hold" mean... Could you elaborate ?

[Outlaw]

Hey Max,

No I didn't notice anything related to food. But ejaculation used to make it spike. Came last week and it didnt do much.

I have been doing those exercises twice a day for 4 days and my T has definitely lowered. Might me worth a try:
How to get rid of Tinnitus naturally - YouTube (https://youtu.be/GsCTBeGrT8k)

Also started taking 4 pills of bacopa and 15g of glycine a day, so it might also be that. Or just the snapback of the cycle.

[Maximilien]

Interesting, there must be a common mechanism at play... Let me know if you notice a recurrence.

Aha last time I tried this trick it didn't do shit. I personally don't care that much about my T anymore so I won't bother... But thanks :)