Flapjack - Recovery log

[Flapjack]

Hey all, just wanted to introduce myself.

i'm a 24 year old dude. I took finasteride for about three weeks, ending in late April of this year. I had some moderate ED while on the drug, but decided to discontinue. Two weeks following cessation I had my 'crash' though it didn't absolutely buttfuck me like it has to many here. It seems like my primary symptoms are disturbed and unrestful sleep, and as someone with hypochondria, a pretty immense amount of regret and anxiety surrounding my decision to take the drug, compounded by the fact that i've struggled with some neurological issues stemming from another drug as well as a concussion years ago. As it stands, things are okay and showing signs of natural recovery. Here's a list of what i'm currently dealing with

Dick: about 80% pre-fin. still get morning wood and orgasms and sexual pleasure seem unaffected but boners don't come as easily.
Mental: about 80-90% feeling pretty clear, anxiety is very high however and my life has really taken a hit as I can't stop the cycle of obsessive thoughts about wishing I never tried the shit.
Sleep: this is my main problem. I'm about 60% here. I have very vivid dreams and wake up a few times during the night. i don't feel refreshed in the mornings and have quite a bit of fatigue day in and day out. My energy is really low. It affects my motivation and well, basically everything else in my life as sleep is a crucial aspect in one's overall health. This has improved but I am not back to baseline, four months since stopping.

that's about it. I've adopted about 70% of the protocol as of the past few weeks and this has coincided with me seeing improvements in the energy department. However, this is not enough. I'll go full bore in the next month or so when my schedule and finances allow for it. I think a full recovery is definitely possible and I look forward to feeling normal again, and it's great to have found a community like this. I wish all of you the best in your recoveries. A question I have to kick off this thread is in what sort of timeframe have any of you experienced an improvement in your sleep? I'm curious as there seems to be a lot of variation amongst people here.

[Outlaw]

Hey man, just wanted to show some life in your thread.

I can relate to the hypochondria and the obsessive thoughts, I have the same. This only got better when I started getting better through the protocol. Every month I am closer to recovery, and incidentally I forgive myself a bit more each month.

It's not a competition but you should be grateful your symptoms are not too bad. After 4 months I was an absolute wreck, and I know plenty who were way worse than me. It can help put things in perspective.

Personnaly sleep has been my first symptom to go. My first month I was sleeping 3-4 hours a night, my 2nd and 3rd month I would sleep 6h with no deep sleep, and starting from the 4th month it got normal. I now sleep 7-8h easy, and it's deep sleep.

I would recommend you look into the sleep supplements of the protocol. I just take glycine and magnesium, and I fall asleep within 5min after my breathing exercises.

Don't hesitate to reach out, sometimes there may not be much replies but we're here

[Flapjack]

Hey man, just wanted to show some life in your thread.

I can relate to the hypochondria and the obsessive thoughts, I have the same. This only got better when I started getting better through the protocol. Every month I am closer to recovery, and incidentally I forgive myself a bit more each month.

It's not a competition but you should be grateful your symptoms are not too bad. After 4 months I was an absolute wreck, and I know plenty who were way worse than me. It can help put things in perspective.

Personnaly sleep has been my first symptom to go. My first month I was sleeping 3-4 hours a night, my 2nd and 3rd month I would sleep 6h with no deep sleep, and starting from the 4th month it got normal. I now sleep 7-8h easy, and it's deep sleep.

I would recommend you look into the sleep supplements of the protocol. I just take glycine and magnesium, and I fall asleep within 5min after my breathing exercises.

Don't hesitate to reach out, sometimes there may not be much replies but we're here

Hey bud, appreciate the reply. I've followed your thread as a lurker for a good while and it has served as a great inspiration, it's great to see how far you've come.
Thanks for the perspective, I'm looking into the supplements as we speak. Today I drove out into the woods and swam in a beautiful -frigid- creek. Cold water exposure seems to really do well for me in terms of sleep so we'll see how tonight goes. Anyhow, glad to hear from you, I'm sure we'll correspond more as time goes by.

[Flapjack]

Probably had my most complete night of sleep in months today, but for some reason I'm far more fatigued than i've been in weeks. I feel like falling asleep at every moment. Leads me to wonder if the fatigue is indeed from a lack of sleep which has been pretty serious, or if it's due to other imbalances. Probably a combination of both.

[Flapjack]

Starting 100% tomorrow. i'll come back in a month to share an update. I have a big concert mid september where i'll probably blow out a bit on the intoxicants but that'll be the only time i let things slip.

[Flapjack]

Been a month since I shared anything, just wanted to give an update. I'm in a big transitional stage in life and 100% embracing the protocol hasn't happened quite yet, but I've been following it as closely as possible. My sleep is almost normal now, but still has a ways to go. I can say now that I do feel somewhat rested after I wake up, which was not my reality for months after I stopped taking finasteride, when the first few minutes of my day were a hell of complete exhaustion, fatigue, and lethargy. I still deal with a good amount of fatigue on a daily basis, and unfortunately the resolving sleep issues haven't fully fixed this as I had hoped they would, so this is the next symptom I hope to see resolved through this process. There's also a little depersonalization at times, but if I stay engaged with the present it doesn't rear its ugly head. It is certainly tied into and exacerbated by anxiety, so that is something to be aware of. My libido is still about 80% of what it was pre-fin but erections are okay and my sexual health overall isn't completely null. I still crave sex but that primal desire is something that I haven't felt in a long time. Positives to report are that i'm starting to get into pretty good shape and I'm lifting heavier weight than I ever have, even after a lifetime of being an athlete. Not sure why my strength has jumped so much but it's something I'm really jazzed about. Excited to have more of this clear up over the coming months, I see the vibrancy coming back every day and it's good to see the light at the end of the tunnel

[Flapjack]

I hate being a hypochondriac. I think most people at this point would consider themselves recovered from finasteride yet I feel like I'm depersonalizing myself and psychosomatically inducing symptoms. there could be a different world where I would be living out this stage of my life to its fullest if I wasn't so obsessive. I just want to feel normal and the combination of hypochondria, the actual shit this drug did to me, and the way my perception of reality being broken like this makes me feel like i'll be caught in this for a very long time. It's a mental game at this point and I hate to admit it but i feel traumatized. that in and of itself is so hard to recover from, and I fear when my symptoms pass I'll still be stuck, scarred by this.

[LetsGo]

I spent years thinking it was all in my head, but it’s probably not. You won’t be caught in this for a very long time, because you have the protocol.

I would just jump on the full protocol, 100%, and see where you’re at in 6 months. If you need to keep going, keep going. Don’t stop until you reach 100% (or even beyond that.)

[Flapjack]

as of now I'd put myself at 90%, coming up on 6 months since my crash. I think I am making a natural recovery, as my crash wasn't as brutal as what seems typical in the PFS world. However, I'm back on the protocol at 100% now, if not for a 100% recovery, for the pursuit of self improvement in all facets of my life. I truly feel like the best days are ahead and this program seems like the blueprint to achieve it. I'll check in again in another month. Cheers everyone.

[Outlaw]

Happy for you my man.

I can really relate with the obsessive thoughts, everyday I wish I didnt take that single pill it's really hard. I am not as recovered as you, but I know it's gonna be a challenge to reintegrate real life once I am, because I will always be scared.

Keep it up with the protocol, I think you'll be 100% soon

[Flapjack]

Happy for you my man.

I can really relate with the obsessive thoughts, everyday I wish I didnt take that single pill it's really hard. I am not as recovered as you, but I know it's gonna be a challenge to reintegrate real life once I am, because I will always be scared.

Keep it up with the protocol, I think you'll be 100% soon

Yeah, by and large i see obsessive thought patterns being the last major obstacle that stands in the way of a normal life again besides my Insomnia. Time heals all and as the body heals in tandem, I'm sure the thoughts will diminish. Thanks for the encouragement, I expect the same of you!

[Outlaw]

Yeah, by and large i see obsessive thought patterns being the last major obstacle that stands in the way of a normal life again besides my Insomnia. Time heals all and as the body heals in tandem, I'm sure the thoughts will diminish. Thanks for the encouragement, I expect the same of you!
I agree man. There are a lot of things that I couldn't do, and now that I can do them, I'm not questioning it and just doing them. I think when we will be 100% our brain will forget and we will live in autopilot

[Cdsnuts]

I agree man. There are a lot of things that I couldn't do, and now that I can do them, I'm not questioning it and just doing them. I think when we will be 100% our brain will forget and we will live in autopilot

It'll just be like a bad memory. You won't remember much but misery and lost time. It's just going to be a small void in the timeline of your life

[Flapjack]

Back earlier than I thought to report that for the first time all year, I actually felt horny last night. Damn that felt good lmao. Was afraid I'd never feel that again. Cheers!

[Cdsnuts]

Back earlier than I thought to report that for the first time all year, I actually felt horny last night. Damn that felt good lmao. Was afraid I'd never feel that again. Cheers!

GREAT sign!! Now you know you CAN'T stop. You're on you way man....This is when things start to get good......START...to get good.

[Flapjack]

So it's been about a month since my last update. Figured I'd pop in to give the positives and negatives so far. I've been 100% on protocol since the last update and just in the last week my libido seems to have returned basically to my pre-finasteride state, if not slightly higher. It's great, but I'm not counting on this being my baseline quite yet. I'm elated that it's back though. Also, the mild ED that I was experiencing seems to have resolved, I'm getting rock hard again, something I haven't experienced since early 2021. I still haven't fucked in like 2 months so I have no idea how i'll function when the real deal comes around, but it seems like things are back to normal in that department and I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm down 10 pounds and put on muscle, I'm starting to get compliments about my physique and a girl who I've known for a while grabbed my arm at a Halloween party last weekend and was shocked at how firm it was, then got real flirty with me lol.

As for the negatives, my fatigue is still ever-present though still on a very, very slow mend. I have more energy throughout the day than I did over the summer, but I'm still lethargic and tired, and as a result I also feel pretty derealized because I lack the full energy to engage in the world around me. It's that subtle feeling of being locked in a dream, where nothing seems quite solid and my existence isn't quite anchored in reality. I've dealt with derealization for a long time before finasteride, saw it resolve a few years ago, and to have it return like this is just a massive bummer. I want to feel awake and connected and I'm just not there yet. Still, I know I'm on the right track. I've only been strict with the protocol for about a month and I'm seeing improvement, so to imagine where this takes me 6 months to a year from now brings me hope. I feel extremely fortunate to not have been decimated by this drug in the same ways many of the men here have been but this has still been an eye opening experience and I now have many takeaways from this experience that I feel will benefit me in the long run. the importance of nutrition and exercise is massive. sleep of course as well, which has also improved massively. I'm now extremely skeptical of pharmaceuticals and have learned to do EXTENSIVE research before I ever put a manmade compound (doing my research on prohomones right now in anticipation of a possible cycle next year) in my body ever again. Our health is truly our greatest treasure and when I'm out of these woods I'm safeguarding it because my life depends on it.

So with that, I'm going to peace out for probably another month. I'm going to stop visiting this forum because I feel MUCH better when I'm not reading about this nightmare. My DMs are open if anyone wants to reach out but don't expect any activity here publicly from me really, maybe the odd check-in on others. I think a monthly check-in seems healthy and reasonable. If I make bigger strides I'll probably space them out even more until eventually I can add myself to the coveted recoveries section lol, then say peace the fuck out for good. Hope you all are well and grinding away, keep your chins up and know this is just a blip in a long, productive, beautiful life.

Flapjack

[Cdsnuts]

So it's been about a month since my last update. Figured I'd pop in to give the positives and negatives so far. I've been 100% on protocol since the last update and just in the last week my libido seems to have returned basically to my pre-finasteride state, if not slightly higher. It's great, but I'm not counting on this being my baseline quite yet. I'm elated that it's back though. Also, the mild ED that I was experiencing seems to have resolved, I'm getting rock hard again, something I haven't experienced since early 2021. I still haven't fucked in like 2 months so I have no idea how i'll function when the real deal comes around, but it seems like things are back to normal in that department and I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm down 10 pounds and put on muscle, I'm starting to get compliments about my physique and a girl who I've known for a while grabbed my arm at a Halloween party last weekend and was shocked at how firm it was, then got real flirty with me lol.

As for the negatives, my fatigue is still ever-present though still on a very, very slow mend. I have more energy throughout the day than I did over the summer, but I'm still lethargic and tired, and as a result I also feel pretty derealized because I lack the full energy to engage in the world around me. It's that subtle feeling of being locked in a dream, where nothing seems quite solid and my existence isn't quite anchored in reality. I've dealt with derealization for a long time before finasteride, saw it resolve a few years ago, and to have it return like this is just a massive bummer. I want to feel awake and connected and I'm just not there yet. Still, I know I'm on the right track. I've only been strict with the protocol for about a month and I'm seeing improvement, so to imagine where this takes me 6 months to a year from now brings me hope. I feel extremely fortunate to not have been decimated by this drug in the same ways many of the men here have been but this has still been an eye opening experience and I now have many takeaways from this experience that I feel will benefit me in the long run. the importance of nutrition and exercise is massive. sleep of course as well, which has also improved massively. I'm now extremely skeptical of pharmaceuticals and have learned to do EXTENSIVE research before I ever put a manmade compound (doing my research on prohomones right now in anticipation of a possible cycle next year) in my body ever again. Our health is truly our greatest treasure and when I'm out of these woods I'm safeguarding it because my life depends on it.

So with that, I'm going to peace out for probably another month. I'm going to stop visiting this forum because I feel MUCH better when I'm not reading about this nightmare. My DMs are open if anyone wants to reach out but don't expect any activity here publicly from me really, maybe the odd check-in on others. I think a monthly check-in seems healthy and reasonable. If I make bigger strides I'll probably space them out even more until eventually I can add myself to the coveted recoveries section lol, then say peace the fuck out for good. Hope you all are well and grinding away, keep your chins up and know this is just a blip in a long, productive, beautiful life.

Flapjack

You got this! KEEP GOING!!!

[Flapjack]

Hey everyone,

It's been about a month since my last update. I'll keep this one succinct.
I just took a new job and moved a short distance to a new city, it has been an incredibly busy month to say the least. Following the protocol during a move has been a challenge and I basically slipped to about 40% of the protocol while I was getting established here. Thankfully the chaos has mostly settled and I have returned to a consistent regimen over the past week or so. Shortcomings aside, this is undoubtedly the best I have felt since I stopped taking finasteride back in April. Libido fluctuates between okay and normal, but still seldom reaches ravenous levels. Sleep is still my main struggle but the oppressive fatigue I struggled with for months is now more of an inconvenience than an all consuming burden. anxiety and depressive symptoms are okay, again, not enough to leave me bedridden or anything of the sort, but still the day in and day out is a struggle. I still see a long path ahead until I feel normal but honestly, I know after I make it to the other side, life is going to be leagues better than I think it's ever been with the gratitude I have found for a functioning mind and body. Also some ancillary benefits to the protocol, I am now in pretty damn good shape and I'm hearing about it from everybody I know, can't wait to see where I'm at in four months. My confidence is also higher than ever, took a girl out on a date the other week and she was sucked in to me, don't think i've ever made a girl laugh that hard on a date ever. Following in Outlaw 's footsteps, I'll post some progress pictures since I think they may serve as some inspiration to people considering taking the protocol on. The first is back in August 2021 after my first full week in the gym since this ordeal. The second one was taken yesterday, this December of 2021. Hope all is well with you all and keep pushing.

Flapjack

1608 1609

[Outlaw]

Hey everyone,

It's been about a month since my last update. I'll keep this one succinct.
I just took a new job and moved a short distance to a new city, it has been an incredibly busy month to say the least. Following the protocol during a move has been a challenge and I basically slipped to about 40% of the protocol while I was getting established here. Thankfully the chaos has mostly settled and I have returned to a consistent regimen over the past week or so. Shortcomings aside, this is undoubtedly the best I have felt since I stopped taking finasteride back in April. Libido fluctuates between okay and normal, but still seldom reaches ravenous levels. Sleep is still my main struggle but the oppressive fatigue I struggled with for months is now more of an inconvenience than an all consuming burden. anxiety and depressive symptoms are okay, again, not enough to leave me bedridden or anything of the sort, but still the day in and day out is a struggle. I still see a long path ahead until I feel normal but honestly, I know after I make it to the other side, life is going to be leagues better than I think it's ever been with the gratitude I have found for a functioning mind and body. Also some ancillary benefits to the protocol, I am now in pretty damn good shape and I'm hearing about it from everybody I know, can't wait to see where I'm at in four months. My confidence is also higher than ever, took a girl out on a date the other week and she was sucked in to me, don't think i've ever made a girl laugh that hard on a date ever. Following in Outlaw 's footsteps, I'll post some progress pictures since I think they may serve as some inspiration to people considering taking the protocol on. The first is back in August 2021 after my first full week in the gym since this ordeal. The second one was taken yesterday, this December of 2021. Hope all is well with you all and keep pushing.

Flapjack

1608 1609
Greaaat progress man. It's nice to see there are human beings behind the usernames.

Yeah no choice but to see it longterm, and if the road is shorter it's gonna be a bonus. Considering my state I don't expect my recovery to happen in 2022, but summer 2023 might very be well be my long awaited Hide your daughter Season.

Looking forward to yours too. Until then it's training camp season.

[Flapjack]

Greaaat progress man. It's nice to see there are human beings behind the usernames.

Yeah no choice but to see it longterm, and if the road is shorter it's gonna be a bonus. Considering my state I don't expect my recovery to happen in 2022, but summer 2023 might very be well be my long awaited Hide your daughter Season.

Looking forward to yours too. Until then it's training camp season.

fuck haha hide your daughters, love it.

yep. Just wake up and do each day right. it's less daunting that way instead of speculating about the length of the road ahead. day by day.

[Flapjack]

Today I felt as close to normal as I ever have. odd, because over christmas i slacked a bit and drank, and ate out of the paleo diet. libido, energy, and mental clarity all on point. We'll see how it goes though.

[Flapjack]

Sup everyone,

it's been another month. Here's where I'm at.
I've been following the protocol at about 80%, I ran out of some supplements so I'm going to restock and i'll be back at full go, but otherwise my diet and exercise along with cold water exposure and breathwork have been maintained well. I will say about once a week I have given in to meeting friends for drinks, and I'm not exactly pleased with what that means for my recovery timeline. I do wonder how much that has truly set me back but going forward, i think I'm just going to have to turn down the opportunities to go out. Symptom wise, still a slow crawl. I've been on an upward trajectory since starting but the dp/dr and fatigue are still sticking around. sleep is about 90% but i still walk around most days feeling like I had about 4 hours of rest. Enough energy to get my tasks done, but not enough to really flourish in my life, I'm just sort of stuck in this hazy dream state. It's getting very tiresome and I'm eager to put this behind me. Anyways, nothing revelatory but that's where things stand. hope all is well out there.

Flapjack

[Cdsnuts]

Sup everyone,

it's been another month. Here's where I'm at.
I've been following the protocol at about 80%, I ran out of some supplements so I'm going to restock and i'll be back at full go, but otherwise my diet and exercise along with cold water exposure and breathwork have been maintained well. I will say about once a week I have given in to meeting friends for drinks, and I'm not exactly pleased with what that means for my recovery timeline. I do wonder how much that has truly set me back but going forward, i think I'm just going to have to turn down the opportunities to go out. Symptom wise, still a slow crawl. I've been on an upward trajectory since starting but the dp/dr and fatigue are still sticking around. sleep is about 90% but i still walk around most days feeling like I had about 4 hours of rest. Enough energy to get my tasks done, but not enough to really flourish in my life, I'm just sort of stuck in this hazy dream state. It's getting very tiresome and I'm eager to put this behind me. Anyways, nothing revelatory but that's where things stand. hope all is well out there.

Flapjack

We both know that drinking is going to set your recovery back, by how much, hard to say, but enough to warrant not doing it.

[Flapjack]

We both know that drinking is going to set your recovery back, by how much, hard to say, but enough to warrant not doing it.

yep. it's hard, because i just moved to a city in the pacific northwest where I know almost nobody and the winter weather wears on your psyche at times, i really want to meet people here but alcohol is ingrained in the social scene unfortunately. at the end of the day, i know what i need to do, I just don't want to pass up opportunities for dates, making friends etc.

[Cdsnuts]

yep. it's hard, because i just moved to a city in the pacific northwest where I know almost nobody and the winter weather wears on your psyche at times, i really want to meet people here but alcohol is ingrained in the social scene unfortunately. at the end of the day, i know what i need to do, I just don't want to pass up opportunities for dates, making friends etc.

They'll be PLENTY of time for that in the future, when you can actually enjoy it, and most likely get laid without having to worry about these bullshit issues. Listen to me.....When I was 30, I wished I hadn't done alot of what I did when I was 25 and thought I wasted my time. When I was 35, I was upset that I lost a huge portion of my life to PFS. It didn't take me till almost 45 years old to learn the value of the present moment.

Do yourself a favor. Take this time to work on yourself....I mean REALLY work on yourself. Two years might seem like a long time now, but it won't seem half as long as if you just kept fucking around and then you're two years down the line in the same fucking spot you're in now!! The social scene will ALWAYS be there. Get well man. Do THAT first. The rest will follow better then your wildest dreams. I'm certain on that.

[Flapjack]

They'll be PLENTY of time for that in the future, when you can actually enjoy it, and most likely get laid without having to worry about these bullshit issues. Listen to me.....When I was 30, I wished I hadn't done alot of what I did when I was 25 and thought I wasted my time. When I was 35, I was upset that I lost a huge portion of my life to PFS. It didn't take me till almost 45 years old to learn the value of the present moment.

Do yourself a favor. Take this time to work on yourself....I mean REALLY work on yourself. Two years might seem like a long time now, but it won't seem half as long as if you just kept fucking around and then you're two years down the line in the same fucking spot you're in now!! The social scene will ALWAYS be there. Get well man. Do THAT first. The rest will follow better then your wildest dreams. I'm certain on that.

Dude, I really appreciate hearing this. Thank you man.

[Cdsnuts]

Dude, I really appreciate hearing this. Thank you man.

It's just the truth, but you're very welcome.

[Flapjack]

Been feeling well lately. It's been slow, consistent improvement since I set off on this regimen full go back in October. My sleep was completely fucked back in those days. The way I felt as I woke up from 4 hours of some semi-sleeplike state and the thought of dealing with that for a lifetime caused a crushing depression that lasted an entire spring, summer, and well into the fall. I've already been dealing with a litany of chronic health problems in my young life and to add one more debilitating issue was terrifying.

Now, I'm back to a point where the depression is more or less gone, or at least more reflective of actual normal problems instead of something directly caused by 5AR inhibitors. I wake up, go to the gym, feel inspired to be creative again, and generally feel well throughout the day. My DP/DR, fatigue, and libido issues are still present but I now can see a rough timeline for a full recovery forming if my progress continues to be consistent. Right now, I feel like I'm a good year from being fully recovered and then some.

Something interesting is that I now realize I've been suffering from some form of anhedonia since my adolescence. I actually went to a counselor when I was 15 for this issue I noticed I had developed where It seemed like I couldn't laugh or truly find humor in things that used to make me laugh to the point of tears. This was also a period of time in my life where I was smoking a lot of marijuana and on ADD medication for a prolonged period of time. I suspect these two may have impeded some aspect of my brain development in these years, as there came a point where I felt like something was really off in terms of my emotional processing. Since then, things got better but never resolved prior to finding this forum. Now that I've been familiarized with the deleterious effects of pharmaceuticals, I can see that this could possibly be the root cause of these emotional issues I've been struggling with for now around a decade. I'm hoping the protocol can pull me back to my pre-fin state and then push me to recover at least partially from the anhedonia and emotional stunting I dealt with since far before I ever tried finasteride. Just some thoughts floating in my head on a weekend. Hope you all are well.

Best,

Flapjack

[Flapjack]

Feel amazing today. Just thought i'd share. Ton of improvements in the last week or two, like I turned a huge corner. hope it sticks.

[Cdsnuts]

Feel amazing today. Just thought i'd share. Ton of improvements in the last week or two, like I turned a huge corner. hope it sticks.

Ebb and flow, ebb and flow......

[Flapjack]

Sup, been a while. I've just been staying busy on the protocol and trying to not obsess too much, as I tend to do. Honestly, feeling pretty great all things considered. Still not 100% but my sleep is restful again and my libido is about where it's always been prior to fin. It's still going to be a bit and i'm entering a downswing i think, as i had a mini crash of sorts following a huge spike in libido for whatever reason, but it's not square one which is great. one further note, tomorrow marks the one year mark since i took my last pill. onwards!

[Cdsnuts]

Sup, been a while. I've just been staying busy on the protocol and trying to not obsess too much, as I tend to do. Honestly, feeling pretty great all things considered. Still not 100% but my sleep is restful again and my libido is about where it's always been prior to fin. It's still going to be a bit and i'm entering a downswing i think, as i had a mini crash of sorts following a huge spike in libido for whatever reason, but it's not square one which is great. one further note, tomorrow marks the one year mark since i took my last pill. onwards!

Thanks for updating.

Forward progress in progress.

Keep pushing.

[Flapjack]

Hello all, another update.

Life is almost as it was before, I'm just beneath my pre-fin baseline and unfortunately, have strayed off 100% protocol as a result. Specifically, less herbs, less cold showers. I'm in the gym nearly every day and I maintain the paleo diet and i'm continuing to see positive results. Best shape of my life by far, went from 220 down to a clean 190lbs at about 18-19% bodyfat. Surely the importance of diet and exercise have become ironclad in my psyche and I will take these pillars of health to my final days. Thanks to this community and CD, I'm another man of many who has clawed his way out of a dark place. There is still work to be done. I'm poor as shit at the moment asI start grad school, so herbs will be difficult, but I've been slowly moving back to 100% on protocol. I want to push through my pre-fin baseline and go beyond, and I know I'll get there eventually.

Flapjack

[Gravityhaha]

Hey my man. Great to hear your making progress, your thread is inspirational. Once you’re hovering in the 90%s and a full recovery is within reach, it can be hard to stay fully committed. I’ve run into the same situation myself lmao. A great problem to have. Keep up the effort and finish this thing off, once and for all.

[Outlaw]

So happy for you man, you deserve all that shit! Make the best out of life, and definitely keep us posted on your progress beyond pre-fin baseline

[Flapjack]

Well, sucks to say, as my most recent log was one of significant progress, but it appears I’ve hit a pretty huge setback l. It may have been the yeast with b vitamins that I mentioned in an earlier thread, but I’ve crashed pretty hard and am feeling terrible fatigue again, it’s been months since I’ve felt like this, and I really thought I had moved on. I’m worried because of the source of this crash. I don’t really know what to do other than press on.

[lastnoirking87]

You must keep moving like you were before.. or actually, if you had begun to slip a bit, get back the aggression you had at the beginning. I've had bad dips that felt like I was back at square 2 or so, but you have to keep going with a poker face. Other users here attest to having had some bad crashes even as they were getting eight near the finish line. Dont let it stress you, and dont let it slow you down.

[Cdsnuts]

You must keep moving like you were before.. or actually, if you had begun to slip a bit, get back the aggression you had at the beginning. I've had bad dips that felt like I was back at square 2 or so, but you have to keep going with a poker face. Other users here attest to having had some bad crashes even as they were getting eight near the finish line. Dont let it stress you, and dont let it slow you down.

This^^^^^

[Flapjack]

Good and bad news -

The good is that the fatigue spell I was hit with after the yeast has pretty much dissipated, which is a relief.
The bad is that my tinnitus - which I've had for 8 years as a result of other drug use, is on a tear after a night out at a club. I wore hearing protection as I almost always do in this setting, but there was a good 5 minutes or so where I didn't have them in. My hearing is still pretty much perfect but my tinnitus has just been ripping which is really concerning me. Being drug-induced tinnitus in the first place, I'm hoping that continuing along with the protocol will bring it back to the state it previously was, which was basically unnoticeable. But the anxiety is telling me PFS has weakened my hearing and this spike isn't going down again. Regardless, life goes on. I'm just hoping I see a resolution in this soon.

[Outlaw]

Good and bad news -

The good is that the fatigue spell I was hit with after the yeast has pretty much dissipated, which is a relief.
The bad is that my tinnitus - which I've had for 8 years as a result of other drug use, is on a tear after a night out at a club. I wore hearing protection as I almost always do in this setting, but there was a good 5 minutes or so where I didn't have them in. My hearing is still pretty much perfect but my tinnitus has just been ripping which is really concerning me. Being drug-induced tinnitus in the first place, I'm hoping that continuing along with the protocol will bring it back to the state it previously was, which was basically unnoticeable. But the anxiety is telling me PFS has weakened my hearing and this spike isn't going down again. Regardless, life goes on. I'm just hoping I see a resolution in this soon.

I have PFS induced tinnitus. I got exposed to loud sounds at the dental cleaning, I had a huge spike, but it wasn't permanent. I don't mean that I'm tinnitus free, but it has generally lowered, and I had a handful of days (in the last 8 months) where it was really low.

I was the first one to be scared of tinnitus. I still am, but now that I understand what's going on, I realize that it's a biochemical response, rather than a physical damage. At least for me, it's a nervous system activation issue. If I expose myself to sounds, I will be sensitive to sounds for a few days. This lead me to believe that it's physical damage, but I always get back to baseline, and I recover much quicker with NMDA blocking substances, which tells me it's more a limbic system activation or excitoxicity.

I would recommend taking things that blocks the NMDA receptors (bacopa, magnesium threonate, gotu kola). Taking care of your liver and gut can also help tinnitus and sound sensitivity, as an overloaded liver or gut dysbiosis produces an excess of ammonia which stimulates NMDA receptors.

You got this king

[Flapjack]

I have PFS induced tinnitus. I got exposed to loud sounds at the dental cleaning, I had a huge spike, but it wasn't permanent. I don't mean that I'm tinnitus free, but it has generally lowered, and I had a handful of days (in the last 8 months) where it was really low.

I was the first one to be scared of tinnitus. I still am, but now that I understand what's going on, I realize that it's a biochemical response, rather than a physical damage. At least for me, it's a nervous system activation issue. If I expose myself to sounds, I will be sensitive to sounds for a few days. This lead me to believe that it's physical damage, but I always get back to baseline, and I recover much quicker with NMDA blocking substances, which tells me it's more a limbic system activation or excitoxicity.

I would recommend taking things that blocks the NMDA receptors (bacopa, magnesium threonate, gotu kola). Taking care of your liver and gut can also help tinnitus and sound sensitivity, as an overloaded liver or gut dysbiosis produces an excess of ammonia which stimulates NMDA receptors.

You got this king

Thanks man, I'm glad guys like you with a deeper understanding of these mechanisms are here on this forum to have our backs.
Really sucks, I've had tinnitus forever and habituated to the point where I literally hadn't thought of it in maybe 2-3 years save for the brief moments in a quiet room where it would resurface.

The fact that I didn't have muffled hearing or any noticeable hearing loss from after the show is encouraging, It is absolutely an issue with an overactive nervous system. I wonder if this has anything to do with the B vitamin debacle I went through a few weeks ago, as both you and turnover's tinnitus seemed to spike around the same time as consuming those supplements.

Unfortunately that night I also had a sugar free red bull (Yeah, I know...) which if I recall correctly, contains B vitamins and of course, gut disrupting artificial sweeteners. I'm rambling at this point but yeah... Hope this goes back to baseline soon. Thanks brother.

[Flapjack]

Thangs haven’t necessarily improved, trying not to freak out. Idk what really was the cause of this as it didn’t onset till three days after noise exposure, and I’ve felt sick the whole time. Possibly covid? I’m not sure. Such an awful distraction though.

[Outlaw]

Tinnitus can spike a few days after the exposure. I read way too much about it back in the days, and sometimes people had spikes that lasted a couple weeks/months. So I think it's still super early, and it can still settle down.

Also, indeed it can be a lot of things. Gut, liver, adrenals/nervous system, heavy metals, infections, TMJ/jaw/neck... any problems with those things can cause it through various mechanisms. PFS gave me baaaad tinnitus, but I have had some days where it was significantly lower, so I know it's a systemic issue rather than any ''damage''.

If you wanna go further, you could also check your B12 levels as a deficiency is a frequent nerve-related cause. If you're deficient, you could always supplement, but I would opt for dietary sources given my historic haha. And fixing your gut will help too, as it impairs B12 absorption.

And finally, you could add foods that repairs the myelin sheath, like omega3/choline/glycine/vitamin D/antioxidants. Think salmon, eggs, avocado, brocoli, blueberries.

Otherwise, how's the recovery going?

[Flapjack]

Outlaw Thank you man, will do with that advice and report down the line.

I think there is a confluence of a lot of issues that lead to this. As a longtime T sufferer, and having gone through all the precautions with hearing protection at live music, this whole situation really raises some questions, as the overall intensity and length of noise exposure I experienced wasn’t very significant. I feel like there is some invisible factor in all of this, one likely stemming from PFS, perhaps an illness I contracted, the B vitamin yeast, or maybe some drugs/substances I came into contact with that night etc., along with the noise exposure.

In terms of recovery, doing pretty good, plateaued a little bit due to regaining a sense of normalcy and eschewing some of the more strict aspects of the protocol, but this new situation has set me straight. Most of my pfs symptoms had greatly abated, my biggest issues being chronic fatigue/derealization and lack of sexual desire. I’d say for all of those, I was hovering around 70-90% of my pre-fin baseline. Overall, I was really happy with where I was at. Those still hold true but my ears are really getting me down and I’m having a rough time right now, despite landing an awesome new job and other positive developments in my life. Really hoping to feel normal again. I have every reason to celebrate and yet I’m in a hole, I’m 25 and my dreams require me not having blaring ringing in my ears

[Outlaw]

Outlaw Thank you man, will do with that advice and report down the line.

I think there is a confluence of a lot of issues that lead to this. As a longtime T sufferer, and having gone through all the precautions with hearing protection at live music, this whole situation really raises some questions, as the overall intensity and length of noise exposure I experienced wasn’t very significant. I feel like there is some invisible factor in all of this, one likely stemming from PFS, perhaps an illness I contracted, the B vitamin yeast, or maybe some drugs/substances I came into contact with that night etc., along with the noise exposure.

In terms of recovery, doing pretty good, plateaued a little bit due to regaining a sense of normalcy and eschewing some of the more strict aspects of the protocol, but this new situation has set me straight. Most of my pfs symptoms had greatly abated, my biggest issues being chronic fatigue/derealization and lack of sexual desire. I’d say for all of those, I was hovering around 70-90% of my pre-fin baseline. Overall, I was really happy with where I was at. Those still hold true but my ears are really getting me down and I’m having a rough time right now, despite landing an awesome new job and other positive developments in my life. Really hoping to feel normal again. I have every reason to celebrate and yet I’m in a hole, I’m 25 and my dreams require me not having blaring ringing in my ears

That's possible. The only thing I can tell you is that all those potential explanations you listed can be relieved by taking care of the cause. At first I thought PFS had damaged my ears, because it's known to lower gluthatione, which is the biggest (and most protective) antioxidant in the body. But over the months, I had a handful of days with barely any T, which ruled it out. So what I'm trying to say is, even if it's caused by PFS, I don't think there's any ''damage'', and it's something that can be fixed. Trust me, that's coming from a guy who had blaring tinnitus and spent around 7 months housebound because he couldn't tolerate the sounds of cooking eggs.

And that's awesome for your progress man. I understand the ear frustration and it's probably not what you want to hear, but even if the worst case scenario happens and you get out of PFS only with tinnitus remaining, it's still huge. But if you read my posts, you know I'm the first one to understand your perspective. My career is music and I haven't done any music since that B vitamin/dentist last year.

Given my experiences so far and the windows I had, I don't think this is long-lasting man. Just buckle up, eat a balanced diet and hit the protocol for a couple months to rule out any systemic cause. Sending you good vibes bud

[Flapjack]

That's possible. The only thing I can tell you is that all those potential explanations you listed can be relieved by taking care of the cause. At first I thought PFS had damaged my ears, because it's known to lower gluthatione, which is the biggest (and most protective) antioxidant in the body. But over the months, I had a handful of days with barely any T, which ruled it out. So what I'm trying to say is, even if it's caused by PFS, I don't think there's any ''damage'', and it's something that can be fixed. Trust me, that's coming from a guy who had blaring tinnitus and spent around 7 months housebound because he couldn't tolerate the sounds of cooking eggs.

And that's awesome for your progress man. I understand the ear frustration and it's probably not what you want to hear, but even if the worst case scenario happens and you get out of PFS only with tinnitus remaining, it's still huge. But if you read my posts, you know I'm the first one to understand your perspective. My career is music and I haven't done any music since that B vitamin/dentist last year.

Given my experiences so far and the windows I had, I don't think this is long-lasting man. Just buckle up, eat a balanced diet and hit the protocol for a couple months to rule out any systemic cause. Sending you good vibes bud

With music... same, I haven't gotten into my personal life much on here but music/visual art is pretty much my calling in life and the thought of abandoning those is terrifying, they pretty much drive my existence and my long term goals are all based in those pursuits.

Really happy for your progress, seems like you've come along way with your own hearing issues. Not tolerating cooking eggs is seriously bad. At the moment it's things like dishes clanking and shopping carts that make me cringe, so I do feel lucky in a sense

Appreciate the kind words man, I feel like we've been on a similar trajectory through this whole ordeal. Nice to have someone out there with an experience I can relate to.

[Outlaw]

Don't think about abandoning your passion man! I did in my darkest months, but then I saw that the symptoms could fluctuate, and I realized I could heal them one day. Now every day I write lyrics and I tell myself how glorious it's gonna be when I'll back to recording. Struggle forges character, and I try to see it as beneficial thing in the end art-wise.

Just to show you how it can change... If I take ginger or epsom salt baths for 1 week, my hyperacusis always becomes at least 50% worse. Those things detox the liver, which generates ammonia, and ammonia is toxic for the brain. My bloodtests showed my ammonia was 2x over range. I think the fact that I had a concussion a few years ago predisposes my brain to be more sensitive to this excitotoxicity. And my diagnosed gut issues also generate ammonia: my H is way worse if I'm constipated for a few days, and improves almost instantly when it stops. Just to show it doesn't mean it's permanent!

If I were you, I would try to eat more cruciferous vegetables, a little less protein (to minimize ammonia), more food that heals the myelin sheath (as I wrote earlier), and double down on meditation and visualisation to calm your nervous system. And you could take Magnesium Threonate, which is a form of magnesium that crosses the blood brain barrier and blocks the receptors that are overactivated by ammonia. It's potent stuff so I only take 1/4 of a pill daily, but it's hands down the supplement that helped the most for hyperacusis. It got me from housebound to walking around the city and only worrying about big trucks and sirens. Also, Ornithine is a pretty common amino acids, but it squelches ammonia, and I benefit from it too. I'm not saying your issues are definitely ammonia related like mine, but I think it wouldn't hurt to try given the similarities in our stories.

Anyway, sorry about this novel again. Figured it could help because I remember feeling helpless when at times before better understanding what happens. I'm gonna log off here for a couple weeks to focus on healing, but I'll drop by again. When this is finally all over, we'll PM each other our music/art projects. You got this man, take care

[Flapjack]

Noted on the suggestions. Hopefully we both have something positive to report down the line, good luck out there! Thanks again for the advice.