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Rulk
12-14-2012, 03:44 PM
Father, we ask that you would touch and comfort every family that has been touched by the shootings at the school in Connecticut. Give the children, parents, and staff strength as they begin the grieving and healing process. Wrap your loving arms around them. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen!

-taken from Daily Bible qoutes

burlyman30
12-14-2012, 03:47 PM
Amen to that.

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 03:49 PM
The word "angry" doesn't even begin to cover what I'm feeling about that massacre. I don't think it would be possible for you to have posted a more perfect post than you did though, Noa. Thank you!!!

Rulk
12-14-2012, 03:53 PM
Thanks Cool. I'm chilled to the bone right now... The Josh Powell incident effected me pretty badly, and I am sure this will also. I'm running through the emotions right now, shock, anger and outrage, but i'm trying to stay composed and and direct my thoughts and prayers to those effected. I believe these are the end times, but i'm trying to remain strong.

Scope75
12-14-2012, 03:56 PM
I just heard about this on the radio after lunch..
I don't even know what to post because it makes me so mad and angry to think about it.
My Prayers go out to all the victims and families.

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 04:06 PM
horrible, horrible shit... me and my wife are checking our phones hoping for some mistake in the headcount...

we are not people of faith, but we are people of politics. having an outside perspective on this, i'll tell you. gun politics in this country drive me insane.

we had a family member lose a child a few months ago and we somewhat understand what a tragedy it is for a parent to lose a child.

this was an ugly year for mass shootings...

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 04:11 PM
Thanks Cool. I'm chilled to the bone right now... The Josh Powell incident effected me pretty badly, and I am sure this will also. I'm running through the emotions right now, shock, anger and outrage, but i'm trying to stay composed and and direct my thoughts and prayers to those effected. I believe these are the end times, but i'm trying to remain strong.

I believe you're right. We were just sitting here talking about that. All this senseless violence is one of the "signs" as is global disarmament and that has already happened in other parts of the world. Stuff like this just gives these idiots another excuse to take our guns away. The thing is though, the bad guys will always have guns and the normal, law-abiding people are the ones who will be left defenseless.

I'm sure you heard about the shooting in Chardon, Ohio back on February 27, 2012... that one was only about 27 miles from my house. It isn't safe anywhere anymore. We're seriously considering home schooling at this point.

AestheticOne
12-14-2012, 04:17 PM
This is absolutley sickening, and what makes it even worse is this is going to lead to the normal citizens being defenseless and the bad guys always armed, people think taking guns away will change something? Our fucking consciousness needs to change, Love thy neighbor, end the hatred, guns don't kill people, separation kills people.

DJM
12-14-2012, 04:22 PM
speaking from a professional standpoint, imo, gun laws have no baring on this or any of these tragedies

just this act, screams of an individual who was slipping and the people close to him were unaware, which is sad and somewhat pathetic

the manner in which this was carried out was of someone who wanted a stage to make a statement to those close to him (mother was a teacher i read), and dark thoughts had been brewing over the course of a time period

burlyman30
12-14-2012, 04:39 PM
speaking from a professional standpoint, imo, gun laws have no baring on this or any of these tragedies

just this act, screams of an individual who was slipping and the people close to him were unaware, which is sad and somewhat pathetic

the manner in which this was carried out was of someone who wanted a stage to make a statement to those close to him (mother was a teacher i read), and dark thoughts had been brewing over the course of a time period

All of this^^^.

AestheticOne
12-14-2012, 04:41 PM
couldn't have said it better myself DJM....

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 04:51 PM
as someone who has operated a gun before (as im sure many of you have), anyone who was in the theater here in CO (i know 2 of those folks) will testify to the fact that the shooter could have been stopped way before he got the numbers he did if he had a knife, a car, a toaster...

it's my opinion that the numbers wouldn't be as miserable as they are if the assailant today didn't have a gun

but i'm sure the NRA will rally the troops of lobbyists and make sure things stay the same. it makes me feel like sending my daughter to school knowing how many people could turn a psychiatric breakdown into mass murder, because of their access to guns, is knowingly putting her in harm's way... i know i'm exaggerating, but it's just how helpless i feel in an armed, unstable society that will fight so hard to keep guns, but not to guarantee, for instance, a child's access to healthcare...


and i ramble

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 04:58 PM
The bad guys will always find a way to get a gun. Bad guys will not willingly give up their guns. Disarming law-abiding citizens will not solve the problem!!!

burlyman30
12-14-2012, 05:02 PM
as someone who has operated a gun before (as im sure many of you have), anyone who was in the theater here in CO (i know 2 of those folks) will testify to the fact that the shooter could have been stopped way before he got the numbers he did if he had a knife, a car, a toaster...

it's my opinion that the numbers wouldn't be as miserable as they are if the assailant today didn't have a gun

but i'm sure the NRA will rally the troops of lobbyists and make sure things stay the same. it makes me feel like sending my daughter to school knowing how many people could turn a psychiatric breakdown into mass murder, because of their access to guns, is knowingly putting her in harm's way... i know i'm exaggerating, but it's just how helpless i feel in an armed, unstable society that will fight so hard to keep guns, but not to guarantee, for instance, a child's access to healthcare...


and i ramble

I don't want to get too political in a thread where we are mostly just upset about the tragedy. But keep this in mind. Gun laws ONLY affect law abiding citizens. If the country outlawed guns, only the law abiding citizens would give up their guns. This renders them defenseless against those who do not abide by the law.

Furthermore, if everyone carried a side arm, how many people do you think the shooter in CO would have harmed? Crimes reduce drastically when people are not put in a position of being defenseless. Crime rates are statistically lower in states/countries with the most lenient gun laws. Unfortunately this latest tragedy was carried out against the most defenseless among us. I'm not afraid to say that I am glad he turned the gun on himself, because we do not need someone like that in our society.

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 05:08 PM
I don't want to get too political in a thread where we are mostly just upset about the tragedy. But keep this in mind. Gun laws ONLY affect law abiding citizens. If the country outlawed guns, only the law abiding citizens would give up their guns. This renders them defenseless against those who do not abide by the law.

Furthermore, if everyone carried a side arm, how many people do you think the shooter in CO would have harmed? Crimes reduce drastically when people are not put in a position of being defenseless. Crime rates are statistically lower in states/countries with the most lenient gun laws. Unfortunately this latest tragedy was carried out against the most defenseless among us. I'm not afraid to say that I am glad he turned the gun on himself, because we do not need someone like that in our society.

You articulate and echo my thoughts way better than I do. Thank you.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to burlyman30 again."

Rulk
12-14-2012, 05:22 PM
It's impossible to stop every tragedy from happening, but hopefully there are more things to be implemented to prevent as many as possible. Awareness and education on mental illness by the general populous might help. Being able to recognize the warning signs and doing something about it will be key imo.

Unless you had a genie that could take away all guns or something, taking guns away in general is not the answer right now. Burly's post says it right on.

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 05:44 PM
The bad guys will always find a way to get a gun. Bad guys will not willingly give up their guns. Disarming law-abiding citizens will not solve the problem!!!

this guy was a law abiding citizen, until he was not. holmes was a law abiding citizen, until he was not.


I don't want to get too political in a thread where we are mostly just upset about the tragedy. But keep this in mind. Gun laws ONLY affect law abiding citizens. If the country outlawed guns, only the law abiding citizens would give up their guns. This renders them defenseless against those who do not abide by the law.

Furthermore, if everyone carried a side arm, how many people do you think the shooter in CO would have harmed? Crimes reduce drastically when people are not put in a position of being defenseless. Crime rates are statistically lower in states/countries with the most lenient gun laws. Unfortunately this latest tragedy was carried out against the most defenseless among us. I'm not afraid to say that I am glad he turned the gun on himself, because we do not need someone like that in our society.

if everyone carried a side arm, i would probably move. find a more advanced society where i don't have to be constantly ready to defend myself from deadly force because a law abiding citizen might just lose it and decide the law is not that important anymore.
Are we to arm and train the kindergarten teachers, so they can return fire? I, personally, don't believe that a military state where everyone is a little soldier, ready to kill is the safest or best to live and thrive in

As far as other countries in the world, although I believe different contexts require different rules, aside from Switzerland and Austria, i believe most of the countries with a low homicide rate have more restricted gun access than the US

h2s
12-14-2012, 05:51 PM
I will start this by saying that I am not against the second amendment, and when I have a family will have a gun in my home.

With that said, lets not act like all of this has nothing to do with the ease of acquiring guns in this country. Every nation that had better gun control has significantly better homicide rates. The criminals will remain armed is only an issue because we made them readily available. Now that they have, we can't take them away.

Rulk
12-14-2012, 05:56 PM
this guy was a law abiding citizen, until he was not. holmes was a law abiding citizen, until he was not.



if everyone carried a side arm, i would probably move. find a more advanced society where i don't have to be constantly ready to defend myself from deadly force because a law abiding citizen might just lose it and decide the law is not that important anymore.
Are we to arm and train the kindergarten teachers, so they can return fire? I, personally, don't believe that a military state where everyone is a little soldier, ready to kill is the safest or best to live and thrive in

As far as other countries in the world, although I believe different contexts require different rules, aside from Switzerland and Austria, i believe most of the countries with a low homicide rate have more restricted gun access than the US

I can dig what your saying, but..

Unless we have a Utopia where there is no need to worry about self defense, then yeah, I don't see the need for guns. But, i think in America and in the world, things have not changed where we can let our guard down and be defensless. I think it's perfectlly acceptable to be a warrior in today's world, to protect you and your own. I also think it's okay to be the opposite, as it's free choice and you make your own reality. But when someone wants to burst your bubble, I hope your okay with your decision and can live with it. There are too many bad people that want to infringe on your freedom and happiness for me to let my guard down.

Choose to be prepared I say.

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 06:02 PM
I will start this by saying that I am not against the second amendment, and when I have a family will have a gun in my home.

What troubles me is my 9 year old going to school unarmed and unable to defend herself against law abiding citizens with legally obtained tech-9s and AR-15s

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 06:02 PM
this guy was a law abiding citizen, until he was not. holmes was a law abiding citizen, until he was not

Do you have links to back up this statement?

IMO, Holmes purchasing multiple weapons and a ton of ammo in a short period of time should have thrown up a red flag in the system (ideally). Didn't he also announce that he intended to kill people 4 months before he even went out and did it? There are signs that people are mentally unstable... people just need to pay attention and take threats like that more seriously.

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 06:09 PM
I can dig what your saying, but..

Unless we have a Utopia where there is no need to worry about self defense, then yeah, I don't see the need for guns. But, i think in America and in the world, things have not changed where we can let our guard down and be defensless. I think it's perfectlly acceptable to be a warrior in today's world, to protect you and your own. I also think it's okay to be the opposite, as it's free choice and you make your own reality. But when someone wants to burst your bubble, I hope your okay with your decision and can live with it. There are too many bad people that want to infringe on your freedom and happiness for me to let my guard down.

Choose to be prepared I say.

I know what you mean about busting bubble. A gentleman who works here had his ideals of "right to bear arms bubble" bust in a very unfortunate and abrupt way when he decided to take a couple of friends to watch a movie.

He has a very different outlook on gun ownership now and has since given up many of his firearms.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow too. Years of recovery ahead :(

- - - Updated - - -


Do you have links to back up this statement?

IMO, Holmes purchasing multiple weapons and a ton of ammo in a short period of time should have thrown up a red flag in the system (ideally). Didn't he also announce that he intended to kill people 4 months before he even went out and did it? There are signs that people are mentally unstable... people just need to pay attention and take threats like that more seriously.

it absolutely does not change the fact that he was a law abiding citizen, no? I don't know that any criminal history on his part has been brought forth. as a matter of fact, if i remember right, he had a speeding ticket.

Rulk
12-14-2012, 06:10 PM
What troubles me is my 9 year old going to school unarmed and unable to defend herself against law abiding citizens with legally obtained tech-9s and AR-15s

It's a risk you take. Driving to work is a risk. Life in general is a risk, but there is no ultimate safe solution.

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 06:14 PM
driving to work will be a lot more dangerous if we take away speed limits, regulation of substance use while driving, safety standards for vehicles....


EDIT - Plus, its a risk i would rather not take, hence my opinion that gun control laws here are insane.

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 06:14 PM
Everybody shouldn't be punished because of a few idiots who snap. What do you propose be done about the animal populations when you take away our right to hunt? I'm heading out in the morning to hopefully put some venison in my freezer. Should I really have the right to provide food for my family taken away cuz some psychos aren't smart enough to end their own miserable life before destroying/ending the life of others?

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 06:18 PM
Everybody shouldn't be punished because of a few idiots who snap. What do you propose be done about the animal populations when you take away our right to hunt? I'm heading out in the morning to hopefully put some venison in my freezer. Should I really have the right to provide food for my family taken away cuz some psychos aren't smart enough to end their own miserable life before destroying/ending the life of others?

i suggest you get a hunting license, prove that you are a hunter and are allowed hunting weapons as it is done in SO many countries. Now, if you are trying to get an assault rifle or a 9 to hunt, i say maybe you should just not hunt.

EDIT - And again, being that I see that some of the responsibility of this falls on gun laws, that most of this nation defends, I say everyone should have to give something up, not because of a few idiots who snap, but because of 28 lives, today, 2 in the mall the other day, 12 in CO and so on and so forth.

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 06:18 PM
it absolutely does not change the fact that he was a law abiding citizen, no? I don't know that any criminal history on his part has been brought forth. as a matter of fact, if i remember right, he had a speeding ticket.

I'm not completely sure of his legal history. What I did read about was how he was talking to classmates about wanting to kill people. He then proceeded to go and purchase guns, ammo and body armor. That alone should have sent up flags. The people he expressed the desire to murder another human being to should have reported his ass!

Rulk
12-14-2012, 06:19 PM
driving to work will be a lot more dangerous if we take away speed limits, regulation of substance use while driving, safety standards for vehicles....

True but, we aren't talking about lightening up the laws on guns, as they are incredibly strict as is. The cars are here to stay, so there is no use in wishing they were all gone. Same with guns, they are here and aren't going away, so we have to deal with it. It's all a compramise.

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 06:24 PM
I'm not completely sure of his legal history. What I did read about was how he was talking to classmates about wanting to kill people. He then proceeded to go and purchase guns, ammo and body armor. That alone should have sent up flags. The people he expressed the desire to murder another human being to should have reported his ass!

So are you saying that everyone should report someone saying "im gonna kill so and so" to some mass shooting office thing and they would then flag that individual as unable to own a gun? I say undoable. What someone feels is threatening is very subjective, as many are threatened by the color of my skin and my size (and im not very big).

If you are saying a comprehensive mental evaluation must be obtained to own a gun, I would agree that that could be a step in the right direction.


True but, we aren't talking about lightening up the laws on guns, as they are incredibly strict as is. The cars are here to stay, so there is no use in wishing they were all gone. Same with guns, they are here and aren't going away, so we have to deal with it. It's all a compramise.

The gun laws are not incredibly strict. Compare it to other countries and you will find that very few are more lenient. The cars are here and you must get training and prove yourself able to operate them before you are allowed to legally drive them. Seems like the compromise with guns is much bigger.

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 06:31 PM
i suggest you get a hunting license, prove that you are a hunter and are allowed hunting weapons as it is done in SO many countries. Now, if you are trying to get an assault rifle or a 9 to hunt, i say maybe you should just not hunt.

I have a license to hunt. I took my hunters safety course 26 or so years ago with my father (who was already a licensed and life-long hunter) and my younger brother.

A .223 happens to be one of the more common high powered rifles used to hunt larger game in this country. It also happens to be the caliber of many "assault rifles". In Ohio a few larger caliber handguns can also be used for hunting deer and some other animals. The caliber of a gun has nothing to do with how certain individuals (psychos) will use them... just like any other tool.

It is my belief that every person wishing to hunt or to even purchase a gun should be required to take a class or classes and be required to pass a test or tests before purchases of licenses or weapons be made. Ideally, the test should have a decent amount of questions that would help to expose issues of mental instability.

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 06:39 PM
I have a license to hunt. I took my hunters safety course 26 or so years ago with my father (who was already a licensed and life-long hunter) and my younger brother.

A .223 happens to be one of the more common high powered rifles used to hunt larger game in this country. It also happens to be the caliber of many "assault rifles". In Ohio a few larger caliber handguns can also be used for hunting deer and some other animals. The caliber of a gun has nothing to do with how certain individuals (psychos) will use them... just like any other tool.

It is my belief that every person wishing to hunt or to even purchase a gun should be required to take a class or classes and be required to pass a test or tests before purchases of licenses or weapons be made. Ideally, the test should have a decent amount of questions that would help to expose issues of mental instability.



we're not so far off on our point of view, you and I.

and as I stated, with proper training and licensing, i believe you are fully entitled to your hunting weapons. When I mentioned caliber, I guess I meant more the weapon itself. Assault rifles, repeat action, pump action shotgun, explosives and weapons like that, IMO have no place in hunting. I apologize if that wasn't clear.
I understand a handgun can be used for hunting, i just believe they shouldn't. They are easy to conceal and if the price of not having that threat around is that a few hunters might have to adapt, I would be ok with that.


I'm leaving work now, so im kinda off this. Sorry if I've offended anyone, just meant to express my point of view on this. Me and the family are digesting the news as they come and it can be a little challenging.

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 06:42 PM
So are you saying that everyone should report someone saying "im gonna kill so and so" to some mass shooting office thing and they would then flag that individual as unable to own a gun? I say undoable. What someone feels is threatening is very subjective, as many are threatened by the color of my skin and my size (and im not very big).

If you are saying a comprehensive mental evaluation must be obtained to own a gun, I would agree that that could be a step in the right direction.

See my previous post for a response to that.

When President Obama was going to appear in a town not far from me, some smart-ass kid got up and left his college class saying he was going to go shoot the President. Whether or not the idiot was being sarcastic - he was reported to authorities, arrested by campus security, reported to local law enforcement and then the FBI got involved. Most of the time it's not hard to tell if people have truly bad intentions or if they are just angry at the moment. If statements are made and someone perceives it as a viable threat, then it is their responsibility to report it to the proper authorities.

Mr_math
12-14-2012, 06:44 PM
I'm at a loss for words, I had a great day of training in the gym, got in my car to get back to the real world and hear about this. I still haven't even read about the whole thing. I kind of dont want to. From all I've heard it's painfully sad.

DJM
12-14-2012, 06:44 PM
- being canadian i probably dont understand the argument about the risks out there and need to defend seeing we dont see shit like that here, not to mention on the regular basis
(edmonton had highest murder rate last year, 43 homicides for the year, its the 5th largest city in the country)
- gun laws in the US are pretty light

- i like the idea of the classes and tests, it would deter alot of the people buying for criminal purposes

i would like to say a ton more but as burly stated it will become a heated political debate that was inspired by a mindless tragedy

jmo, one does not need firearms to protect his family and/or feel safe......if any one individual truly feels they need arms to feel safe, i suggest to relocate

longBallLima
12-14-2012, 06:46 PM
jmo, one does not need firearms to protect his family and/or feel safe......if any one individual truly feels they need arms to feel safe, i suggest to relocate

before i leave, i gotta say. this is dead on, DJ. i would not live in brazil again, safety of my family being one of the very big concerns

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 06:50 PM
we're not so far off on our point of view, you and I.

and as I stated, with proper training and licensing, i believe you are fully entitled to your hunting weapons. When I mentioned caliber, I guess I meant more the weapon itself. Assault rifles, repeat action, pump action shotgun, explosives and weapons like that, IMO have no place in hunting. I apologize if that wasn't clear.
I understand a handgun can be used for hunting, i just believe they shouldn't. They are easy to conceal and if the price of not having that threat around is that a few hunters might have to adapt, I would be ok with that.


I'm leaving work now, so im kinda off this. Sorry if I've offended anyone, just meant to express my point of view on this. Me and the family are digesting the news as they come and it can be a little challenging.

Repeat action rifles and shotguns are needed when hunting. Quite often one shot will not bring down or sometimes even hit an animal. Have you ever tried shooting a rabbit on the run? What about a quail, pheasant or duck while they are flying? What about a deer on the run? It's hard to put them down with the first shot all the time.

I'll agree that explosives have no place in society.

burlyman30
12-14-2012, 06:52 PM
May God (or peace, if you prefer) be with the families in shock and horror.

I won't say more on the debate of guns tonight, except that I think the minds on this forum could come together on some middle ground long before the politicians in Washington.

Have a blessed night with your loved ones tonight.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 06:56 PM
jmo, one does not need firearms to protect his family and/or feel safe......if any one individual truly feels they need arms to feel safe, i suggest to relocate

With the crime rate climbing nearly everywhere, there really isn't many places where this kind of safe feeling exists. It's really sad, actually. It would be great if we all lived in Mayberry, but we don't.

steeltown
12-14-2012, 06:59 PM
I used to get shit everytime i carried my gun from my wife .....now she always asking if i brought it..u just never know when something will happen..n most of the time it seems things like this nature take place where people feel safe

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 07:11 PM
Wow!!! This is getting ridiculous!!! And people say gun control is the answer. :rolleyes:

Knife attack at Chinese school wounds 22 children - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html)

22 students stabbed in China (http://www.deccanherald.com/content/298545/chinese-man-goes-stabbing-spree.html)

DJM
12-14-2012, 08:31 PM
368

Macdon1588
12-14-2012, 08:44 PM
368

I believe this number includes suicides and criminals killed.

Macdon1588
12-14-2012, 08:47 PM
What troubles me is my 9 year old going to school unarmed and unable to defend herself against law abiding citizens with legally obtained tech-9s and AR-15s

If I read it correctly, the guns used by this psycho where illegally obtained via theft from his mother's house.

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 08:49 PM
I believe this number includes suicides and criminals killed.

Yep, those numbers are all BS. Guns don't kill people - people kill people. And they'll do it with whatever means they have at their disposal. Gun, knife, car, plane, explosives, a pillow... whatever.

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 08:56 PM
If I read it correctly, the guns used by this psycho where illegally obtained via theft from his mother's house.

Really? I didn't read that yet. My little boy was sitting next to me and I had to stop what I was reading and just hold him for a while. I cannot image being in the shoes of those parents for even a moment. It's horrible!!! I can't imagine why or how you could do that to a single child let alone a whole room full of children. Even knowing that the psycho's ass is cooking in hell right now brings me no comfort whatsoever.

Macdon1588
12-14-2012, 08:58 PM
Yep, those numbers are all BS. Guns don't kill people - people kill people. And they'll do it with whatever means they have at their disposal. Gun, knife, car, plane, explosives, a pillow... whatever.

Let us not forget the biggest killer of all; modern philosophical thought which was the weapon of by which the greatest atrocities of the last century were committed. Communism and Socialism have killed a great many more people than any type of personal side arm ever did, yet both remain legal to this day.

Rulk
12-14-2012, 09:01 PM
One thing that does not get mentioned much... Citizens with the right to bear arms will be a nice deterent for anyone thinking about invading America.

h2s
12-14-2012, 09:15 PM
Can we all agree at least that there is no fucking way anyone needs a gun like an ar15 for hunting? What are you hunting that requires an ar15? Of someone breaks into your home, what is the necessity of an ar15?

Coolazice
12-14-2012, 09:23 PM
Can we all agree st least that there is no tucking way anyone needs a gun like an ar15 for hunting? What are you hunting that requires an ar15? Of someone breaks into your home, what is the necessity of an ar15?

No we don't need the AR versions of a .223, but a .223 is good for hunting larger game and for giving the capability to shoot them from longer distances.

burlyman30
12-14-2012, 09:44 PM
If someone breaks into your home, what is the necessity of an ar15?

To give them a high dose of lead poisoning. ;)

On a more serious note, while they are unnecessary for home defense, most ARs are collectibles that may never see any use.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

DJM
12-14-2012, 10:18 PM
One thing that does not get mentioned much... Citizens with the right to bear arms will be a nice deterent for anyone thinking about invading America.
who?and if so , why?

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Can we all agree at least that there is no fucking way anyone needs a gun like an ar15 for hunting? What are you hunting that requires an ar15? Of someone breaks into your home, what is the necessity of an ar15?

haha poor guy just wants some jewelry

milehighguy
12-14-2012, 10:24 PM
I have to say I am glad this guy is dead but part of me is angry that he got off easy by killing himself...

Rulk
12-14-2012, 10:48 PM
who?and if so , why?

- - - Updated - - -




haha poor guy just wants some jewelry

It mainly pertains to WWll and the Japanese. Land grab, resources, greed.

Sperwer
12-14-2012, 11:27 PM
Repeat action rifles and shotguns are needed when hunting. Quite often one shot will not bring down or sometimes even hit an animal. Have you ever tried shooting a rabbit on the run? What about a quail, pheasant or duck while they are flying? What about a deer on the run? It's hard to put them down with the first shot all the time.

I'll agree that explosives have no place in society.

Auto repeat fire weapons are only "needed" by hunters with poor shooting skills. My ancestors hunted in North America with muskets and didn't go hungry. :D

BBG
12-14-2012, 11:28 PM
Wow!!! This is getting ridiculous!!! And people say gun control is the answer. :rolleyes:

Knife attack at Chinese school wounds 22 children - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html)

To be fair I felt significantly safer in China than I ever do in U.S. cities. Maybe because I'm a "giant" westerner to them, but I knew no one had a gun because the punishment for having one is crazy severe. Not even the police have them, only the military.

It's also way harder for a person to kill with a knife than with a gun. Compare a fully automatic assault weapon to some guy with a knife.

For the record, I like to have the right to own guns.

Sperwer
12-14-2012, 11:37 PM
To be fair I felt significantly safer in China than I ever do in U.S. cities. Maybe because I'm a "giant" westerner to them, but I knew no one had a gun because the punishment for having one is crazy severe. Not even the police have them, only the military.


You think there is any correlation with the fact that it's a totalitarian state?

Macdon1588
12-15-2012, 12:44 AM
It's easy to blame guns when something like this happens because we want to believe that something enabled this kid to be this evil, rather than the truth that the evil was already within in him in the form of whatever physiological illness he had. Furthermore, it's always a sad day when a child is killed regardless of the method.

BBG
12-15-2012, 01:19 AM
You think there is any correlation with the fact that it's a totalitarian state?

It's actually quite nice over there, despite how their government is run.

The people who need guns have them. The people who don't need guns don't have them.

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It's easy to blame guns when something like this happens because we want to believe that something enabled this kid to be this evil, rather than the truth that the evil was already within in him in the form of whatever physiological illness he had. Furthermore, it's always a sad day when a child is killed regardless of the method.

I don't think anyone is blaming guns (unless someone literally stated this). My point is, if the guy had a knife instead of a firearm, things would almost certainly be different. Let alone an automatic assault rifle.

Needless to say it's a tragedy regardless the method. Some sick fucks out there.

Coolazice
12-15-2012, 02:37 AM
Auto repeat fire weapons are only "needed" by hunters with poor shooting skills. My ancestors hunted in North America with muskets and didn't go hungry. :D

Nobody said anything about "auto repeat fire weapons". I do feel we should be allowed to continue to hunt with pump-action shotguns and guns other than muskets though. Here in Ohio, we are required to have a 'choke' in our shotgun (while deer hunting) which limits the capacity of the gun to only 3 shells. That is a reasonable law, imo. There generally isn't time for shooting more than that anyway.

As soon as the technology became available, people (like your ancestors) began using guns with repeat action for hunting. This technology has been in use for well over 150 years, so please don't act as if it hasn't been around for very long. Winchester rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_rifle) ;)

Coolazice
12-15-2012, 02:45 AM
It's also way harder for a person to kill with a knife than with a gun. Compare a fully automatic assault weapon to some guy with a knife.

For the record, I like to have the right to own guns.

I agree that it is easier (or at least usually quicker) to kill with a gun than it is a knife, but it still doesn't change the fact that the end result can be the same.

The kid stole a couple hand guns (and a hunting rifle which remained in the car) from his mom (or other family) after he killed her, didn't he? Not quite sure why you are bringing up "fully automatic assault weapon"???

Macdon1588
12-15-2012, 08:35 AM
It's actually quite nice over there, despite how their government is run.

The people who need guns have them. The people who don't need guns don't have them.

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I don't think anyone is blaming guns (unless someone literally stated this). My point is, if the guy had a knife instead of a firearm, things would almost certainly be different. Let alone an automatic assault rifle.

Needless to say it's a tragedy regardless the method. Some sick fucks out there.

The people of China are nice because (broad sweeping, slightly racist statement coming) Asian people are generally nice and respectful people. It's safe there because of the fear of the government. Let's not forget they're little incident at the square where, when kids wanted change, the government ran over a kid with a tank. For all of the problems our guns cause, our government still remains afraid of us, as a government should be.


I have to disagree with your statement that no one is blaming the guns as the crux of the anti-gun statements imply that that if there were no guns this sort of thing wouldn't have happened. I live in a state where a man armed with a Ryder truck full of fertilizer blew up a building with day care on the bottom floor and over a hundred people died.

markam
12-15-2012, 09:26 AM
After a relatively recent similar tragedy in the U.K. gun laws were made much more restrictive, and there was a massive outcry from gun clubs, etc.

Seems to have helped deal with the problem, but only time can tell.

At least if the shooter hadn't had access to automatic guns, there would almost certainly be less casualties and deaths.

A shocking, terrible thing to have happened. It's hard to really comprehend such a thing.

Edit. I was under the impression the shooter had automatic weapons because of such a high number of fatalities.

Gun law has to be reformed in the U.S. imo.

DJM
12-15-2012, 09:45 AM
The people of China are nice because (broad sweeping, slightly racist statement coming) Asian people are generally nice and respectful people.

as opposed to americans being??? lol sorry man haha

h2s
12-15-2012, 10:12 AM
as opposed to americans being??? lol sorry man haha

To anyone who is not American, we are all rich, arrogant, gun swinging, child imprisoning assholes.

BR99TAL
12-15-2012, 10:23 AM
To anyone who is not American, we are all rich, arrogant, gun swinging, child imprisoning assholes.
ah now i know the truth!!

burlyman30
12-15-2012, 10:30 AM
To anyone who is not American, we are all rich, arrogant, gun swinging, child imprisoning assholes.

Seems to be the consensus of at least half of the world. The other half will figure it out. Lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Macdon1588
12-15-2012, 11:31 AM
as opposed to americans being??? lol sorry man haha

Na, no need to apologize, it's true, we're assholes; big, fat, stupid assholes who are getting fatter and dumber by the minute. That's why our country is becoming more of a nanny state by the second. The rest of the world has hated us for years. It used to be hatred from envy back in the days when Detroit had a greater gross domestic product than most countries; but these days, it's from our miserable failures on a variety of different fronts and our baseless sense of entitlement.

There's a lot of things we could learn from other countries, but history teaches us that the greatest atrocities of all time began with disarmament of citizens. Moreover, comparing the USA to the rest of the world is a gross over simplification of this situation or any other situation because we are so drastically different than the rest of the world. Things that work elsewhere wouldn't work here. Additionally, if the Paris and London riots and the slow death of Greece are any indication, I'd say the entire world is a bit fucked up right now for reasons that extend far greater than gun control in the US.

DJM
12-15-2012, 11:35 AM
^^^great post, i agree on all fronts
everywhere has there own issues.....and the image the us has, or stereotype now, ill just nod lol

DJM
12-15-2012, 11:37 AM
To anyone who is not American, we are all rich, arrogant, gun swinging, child imprisoning assholes.

hahahhahahah
missed the overweight and over consuming lol

canadians are supposedly passive people who live in fkn igloos

369

Macdon1588
12-15-2012, 11:50 AM
^^^great post, i agree on all fronts
everywhere has there own issues.....and the image the us has, or stereotype now, ill just nod lol

It's not politically correct, but ugly stereotypes are based on ugly truths. I would laugh if it were not for the tears for what we have become. I do have hope though it may not seem that way. This country has had it's share of dark days like the one yesterday and we have always bounced back to become stronger.

Macdon1588
12-15-2012, 12:03 PM
hahahhahahah
missed the overweight and over consuming lol

canadians are supposedly passive people who live in fkn igloos

369

Haha, great map, as a moderate libertarian I'd love to disenfranchise the far right from the Republican ranks. The problem I have with the left is that to most of the Democratic Party, patriotism is a dirty word. Thats why I think a liberal version of that map would have evil as a label for the USA, and Russia or China would be labeled as a utopia with Iran, North Korea, and Syria as friends to the utopia. The truth still remains that most of the world would kill to live like us big, dumb, Americans.