Noir King's Recovery Log

[lastnoirking87]

Decided to finally get this log started. The details about my usage of Saw Palmetto and the initial symptoms can be found in my Introduce Yourself sticky. The summary is that I took SP for about 6.5 months, from Late January 2021 until mid August 2021. I stopped after a few instances of ED and began experiencing most, if not all, of the neurological symptoms shortly thereafter in addition to worsening sexual sides, including plummeting libido. For whatever its worth, my libido oftentimes spiked during my SP use, but never noticeably dipped below normal until maybe near the end of my use.
You will notice that I focus on sexual and libidinal symptoms more than anything because that is 95% of what I am left with. Despite having the neurological and fatigue symptoms for about 4 months, in addition to an occasionally twitching perineum/brief prostate pains, most all of that has resolved, so unless any of that stuff returns, it is unlikely I will make any mention of them. The reason I said that sexual/libidinal symptoms are 95% of what is left for me to deal with is due to the fact that I still occasionally get a little mentally foggy/physically sluggish towards the end of the day, to a degree that is not normal for me.
Only other points I'd like to mention are that I am turning 35 this year, but until this experience, have had the same extremely high libido since I was in my late 20s. The sudden drastic downturn coinciding with the SP usage is very clearly correlated to me (and I'm sure nobody here would doubt that). Before all of this, my refractory period was about 5 minutes, and could go 4 rounds with no issue. I live with my fiance, and, trust me, this has been a major disruption to my daily life, despite her being very patient and understanding. Aside from libido, my ED symptoms are premature ejaculation mixed with difficulty achieving and maintaining an erection (great combo, let me tell you). Again, more details about my sexual symptoms can be found in the Introduction sticky.
My body type is very lean, and moderately muscular.
A blood test I had done back in December showed Total Test at 650ng/dL, and another thing that stood out was that my LDL was 120 (normal range being 0-105 mg/dL) despite my never eating fried food or even sweets, for years prior to this. Little strange, but maybe not important.
I plan to use this log primarily to update my progress/setbacks, and to detail any changes to my regimen. I will likely continue to post specific questions in separate posts, but we will see.
So, to bring everything up to date, my juice feast went from January 2nd until the 9th, and I began herb cycling on the 11th.

A breakdown of my current regimen is as follows:

Herbs in the order I have chosen to rotate them (all Lost Empire unless otherwise stated):
Pine Pollen tincture
Dopa Mucuna (NOW Foods)
Gelatinized Black Maca (Nourishing Nutrients)
Ant Extract
Schisandra
Tongkat Ali (2 days in a row)
Shilajit resin (also sporadically taking it other days when I want an extra kick)
Tribulus (Arazo brand...bought this months ago, beforfe I was very knowledgeable. Claims 90% saponins, but think I may look for a better one)
He Shou Wu
Cordyceps
Rhodiola
Ashwagandha
Butea Superba (SMS brand, recommended by CD)
Royal Jelly (Y.S. Eco Bee Farms, rec'd by CD)
I think I am going to take a cue from Maxout and sprinkly in Royal Jelly 2-3 times a week with herbs I think are less powerful, and have my Shilajit day be a combo of Shilajit and Royal Jelly

Workouts:
Every other day I do a full body workout, about 1.5-1.75 hours total. I'm not doing super heavy lifting 5x5 workouts, but will maybe work up to that in the future. I'm a pretty skinny guy despite all the muscle I've been putting on this last year. Still always putting in an extra set or moving up the weight as often as I can, and definitely not stagnating.

2 x's a week I do HIIT on my bike, 6-8 sprint sessions.

So, theres 1 or 2 days a week that I use as rest days, wherein no exercises are done aside from maybe pushups/fill-in weights if I'm antsy.

Diet:
I've been mostly paleo for years now, but am now 100%. Will be cutting out my pea protein and replacing it with egg white protein soon as I'm done this jar, so that will be the last item to get right. I indulge in white rice, potatoes (sweet and/or regular), and fruit on lifting days despite my not doing heavy 5x5 training. I feel like my body is new to the wight lifting, and considering my lean composition, the workouts I am nonetheless doing are probably still a major advancement for me, so I'm doing the carb loading to get as much as possible out of it. Being lean anyway, I figure it can only help.
I usually drink either a 16oz or a 32 oz fresh veggie/fruit juice every day, but sometimes skip it.

Other daily/semi-daily supplements:
Pine Pollen powder, between 1.5-3 tsp every day
Arginine/Citrulline, I use both, just making sure I get roughly total 3000 mg a day
Multivitamin by Naturelo (supposedly all bioavailable forms of vitamins)
L-Glutamine (now taking this just a couple nights a week)
L-Tyrosine (anywhere from half to a full serving in morning coffee)
Gelatin (Grass fed, full serving in morning coffee)
Sorghum (I grind the grain into flour with my Vitamix and use 30g in a smoothie or made into pancakes daily)
Vitamin D (between 5-7000 IU's on days I don't get at least 30 minutes of sun)
Magnesium (Natural Calm brand, I've been buying some old unopened bottles of their magnesium citrate powders, but looks like they switched to using magnesium glyconate or some other form.)
Was doing fish oil every other day, but down to maybe once a week now.
-Had a bad reaction to Chlorella and spirulina a few months back when I was still on shaky ground mentally, but am considering reintroducing spirulina at some point.

Other than that, I'm doing as much cold showering as I can tolerate, given that its winter. I don't let myself go without doing at least 30 seconds under the cold water at the end of the shower, but in any case I am no longer taking HOT or warm showers.
I've eliminated unnatural hygiene products, and use an olive oil-based Kiss My Face soap to shave. I use the skin brush (and damn it really has resulted in the softest skin I've ever had), and only if I'm going out somewhere do I use a natural deodorant by DoTerra. Natural and simplistic shampoo for hair, occasionally do still use like a pea size drop of my old stuff if I'm going out or etc., but not often.
Replaced plastic tupperwares with glass, and filter my own water with a Berkey filter, storing it in glass gallon jugs.

Having said all of that, I hope anyone will feel free to point out something that is inadvisable, as I'm still considering everything a work in progress.

So far, however, I have seen tremendous improvement in the sexual department, though they don't always stick around. I am starting to get accustomed to improved libido despite its being a fraction of what it once was. It's at least there most of the time, even if its not overwhelming. Occasionally still have a day where its absent, but I really credit the herbs with kicking that back in already. ED symptoms occasionally are somewhere around 90% better, but its not to the point where I can bank on that every time. I can say, however, that compared to a month or 2 ago, there are very distinct advancements being made.
Basically, I'm looking at this whole thing as an opportunity to not only cure PFS, but the really strong driving force keeping me going is the intention of going far beyond that. Basically, if I were to wake up tomorrow with all of this cured, I would gladly continue on with all of the protocol to see where I can go next. I've totally lost interest in alcohol, which was something I really struggled with before PFS, and now its as though all of my desires to chase a high or a good feeling have been funneled into this health regimen which CD has graciously laid out for us.

The only last thing I want to mention is that I am planning to get into the pro hormones at some point, but first want to see where the herb cycling takes me. I'm hopeful they alone will get me further than I can imagine, as I already feel pretty strong effects from some of them, and I'm really only just beginning. If, after a few months, I feel like progress has stalled, I will get my bloodwork checked mostly to see where my Estrogen is (since it is claimed to be common for SP sufferers to have low E) so that I can make an informed decision on which PH's would be best for me.

That's it for now...future posts won't be this involved or lengthy, I promise.

[lastnoirking87]

...wanted to add that I forgot to mention the PB8 probiotic in my Daily/Semi-Daily supplements list. Currently taking one in the am and one in the pm every day.

[AltRoute]

Decided to finally get this log started. The details about my usage of Saw Palmetto and the initial symptoms can be found in my Introduce Yourself sticky. The summary is that I took SP for about 6.5 months, from Late January 2021 until mid August 2021. I stopped after a few instances of ED and began experiencing most, if not all, of the neurological symptoms shortly thereafter in addition to worsening sexual sides, including plummeting libido. For whatever its worth, my libido oftentimes spiked during my SP use, but never noticeably dipped below normal until maybe near the end of my use.
You will notice that I focus on sexual and libidinal symptoms more than anything because that is 95% of what I am left with. Despite having the neurological and fatigue symptoms for about 4 months, in addition to an occasionally twitching perineum/brief prostate pains, most all of that has resolved, so unless any of that stuff returns, it is unlikely I will make any mention of them. The reason I said that sexual/libidinal symptoms are 95% of what is left for me to deal with is due to the fact that I still occasionally get a little mentally foggy/physically sluggish towards the end of the day, to a degree that is not normal for me.
Only other points I'd like to mention are that I am turning 35 this year, but until this experience, have had the same extremely high libido since I was in my late 20s. The sudden drastic downturn coinciding with the SP usage is very clearly correlated to me (and I'm sure nobody here would doubt that). Before all of this, my refractory period was about 5 minutes, and could go 4 rounds with no issue. I live with my fiance, and, trust me, this has been a major disruption to my daily life, despite her being very patient and understanding. Aside from libido, my ED symptoms are premature ejaculation mixed with difficulty achieving and maintaining an erection (great combo, let me tell you). Again, more details about my sexual symptoms can be found in the Introduction sticky.
My body type is very lean, and moderately muscular.
A blood test I had done back in December showed Total Test at 650ng/dL, and another thing that stood out was that my LDL was 120 (normal range being 0-105 mg/dL) despite my never eating fried food or even sweets, for years prior to this. Little strange, but maybe not important.
I plan to use this log primarily to update my progress/setbacks, and to detail any changes to my regimen. I will likely continue to post specific questions in separate posts, but we will see.
So, to bring everything up to date, my juice feast went from January 2nd until the 9th, and I began herb cycling on the 11th.

A breakdown of my current regimen is as follows:

Herbs in the order I have chosen to rotate them (all Lost Empire unless otherwise stated):
Pine Pollen tincture
Dopa Mucuna (NOW Foods)
Gelatinized Black Maca (Nourishing Nutrients)
Ant Extract
Schisandra
Tongkat Ali (2 days in a row)
Shilajit resin (also sporadically taking it other days when I want an extra kick)
Tribulus (Arazo brand...bought this months ago, beforfe I was very knowledgeable. Claims 90% saponins, but think I may look for a better one)
He Shou Wu
Cordyceps
Rhodiola
Ashwagandha
Butea Superba (SMS brand, recommended by CD)
Royal Jelly (Y.S. Eco Bee Farms, rec'd by CD)
I think I am going to take a cue from Maxout and sprinkly in Royal Jelly 2-3 times a week with herbs I think are less powerful, and have my Shilajit day be a combo of Shilajit and Royal Jelly

Workouts:
Every other day I do a full body workout, about 1.5-1.75 hours total. I'm not doing super heavy lifting 5x5 workouts, but will maybe work up to that in the future. I'm a pretty skinny guy despite all the muscle I've been putting on this last year. Still always putting in an extra set or moving up the weight as often as I can, and definitely not stagnating.

2 x's a week I do HIIT on my bike, 6-8 sprint sessions.

So, theres 1 or 2 days a week that I use as rest days, wherein no exercises are done aside from maybe pushups/fill-in weights if I'm antsy.

Diet:
I've been mostly paleo for years now, but am now 100%. Will be cutting out my pea protein and replacing it with egg white protein soon as I'm done this jar, so that will be the last item to get right. I indulge in white rice, potatoes (sweet and/or regular), and fruit on lifting days despite my not doing heavy 5x5 training. I feel like my body is new to the wight lifting, and considering my lean composition, the workouts I am nonetheless doing are probably still a major advancement for me, so I'm doing the carb loading to get as much as possible out of it. Being lean anyway, I figure it can only help.
I usually drink either a 16oz or a 32 oz fresh veggie/fruit juice every day, but sometimes skip it.

Other daily/semi-daily supplements:
Pine Pollen powder, between 1.5-3 tsp every day
Arginine/Citrulline, I use both, just making sure I get roughly total 3000 mg a day
Multivitamin by Naturelo (supposedly all bioavailable forms of vitamins)
L-Glutamine (now taking this just a couple nights a week)
L-Tyrosine (anywhere from half to a full serving in morning coffee)
Gelatin (Grass fed, full serving in morning coffee)
Sorghum (I grind the grain into flour with my Vitamix and use 30g in a smoothie or made into pancakes daily)
Vitamin D (between 5-7000 IU's on days I don't get at least 30 minutes of sun)
Magnesium (Natural Calm brand, I've been buying some old unopened bottles of their magnesium citrate powders, but looks like they switched to using magnesium glyconate or some other form.)
Was doing fish oil every other day, but down to maybe once a week now.
-Had a bad reaction to Chlorella and spirulina a few months back when I was still on shaky ground mentally, but am considering reintroducing spirulina at some point.

Other than that, I'm doing as much cold showering as I can tolerate, given that its winter. I don't let myself go without doing at least 30 seconds under the cold water at the end of the shower, but in any case I am no longer taking HOT or warm showers.
I've eliminated unnatural hygiene products, and use an olive oil-based Kiss My Face soap to shave. I use the skin brush (and damn it really has resulted in the softest skin I've ever had), and only if I'm going out somewhere do I use a natural deodorant by DoTerra. Natural and simplistic shampoo for hair, occasionally do still use like a pea size drop of my old stuff if I'm going out or etc., but not often.
Replaced plastic tupperwares with glass, and filter my own water with a Berkey filter, storing it in glass gallon jugs.

Having said all of that, I hope anyone will feel free to point out something that is inadvisable, as I'm still considering everything a work in progress.

So far, however, I have seen tremendous improvement in the sexual department, though they don't always stick around. I am starting to get accustomed to improved libido despite its being a fraction of what it once was. It's at least there most of the time, even if its not overwhelming. Occasionally still have a day where its absent, but I really credit the herbs with kicking that back in already. ED symptoms occasionally are somewhere around 90% better, but its not to the point where I can bank on that every time. I can say, however, that compared to a month or 2 ago, there are very distinct advancements being made.
Basically, I'm looking at this whole thing as an opportunity to not only cure PFS, but the really strong driving force keeping me going is the intention of going far beyond that. Basically, if I were to wake up tomorrow with all of this cured, I would gladly continue on with all of the protocol to see where I can go next. I've totally lost interest in alcohol, which was something I really struggled with before PFS, and now its as though all of my desires to chase a high or a good feeling have been funneled into this health regimen which CD has graciously laid out for us.

The only last thing I want to mention is that I am planning to get into the pro hormones at some point, but first want to see where the herb cycling takes me. I'm hopeful they alone will get me further than I can imagine, as I already feel pretty strong effects from some of them, and I'm really only just beginning. If, after a few months, I feel like progress has stalled, I will get my bloodwork checked mostly to see where my Estrogen is (since it is claimed to be common for SP sufferers to have low E) so that I can make an informed decision on which PH's would be best for me.

That's it for now...future posts won't be this involved or lengthy, I promise.

It looks like your well on your way! I might of missed it but have you been using the penis pump ? I recently started using the Bathmate and I actually have been enjoying the feeling when using it lol

[lastnoirking87]

It looks like your well on your way! I might of missed it but have you been using the penis pump ? I recently started using the Bathmate and I actually have been enjoying the feeling when using it lol

No, actually, although I don't know why I'm not. I think, being still so early on in this, I have this tendency to get a bit over-optimistic about progress when I have improved sexual functioning, but I have got to really wrap my head around the fact that this is going to ebb and flow most likely for quite some time to come. A part of me keeps thinking it will stick, basically. Anyhow, the pump is on my to-do list for sure.

[lastnoirking87]

Hello downswing. Long time no see. Wel over a month in fact. Noticed while weightlifting that I wasnt firing on all cylinders. Half way through post workout meal, appetite completely disappears, brain goes foggy. It's a major task to even put the food back in the fridge, as al I can think to do is lay down due to extreme fatigue and anxiety. Kind of forgot what this shit felt like. Just a note to self.

[lastnoirking87]

...also a recurring symptom of these mini-crashes, or downswings is I notice my optimism vanishes. I felt a few pessimistic intrusive thoughts about my situation trying to creep in the last couple of days for the first time in a long time. Maybe it's something to be on the lookout for in the future as it may signal impending downswing.

[lastnoirking87]

Cold shower and meditation in the dark for an hour, and it's like nothing happened. Woke up today totally back to normal positivity. Future reference

[lastnoirking87]

Noticing these past 2 days my energy is more like it used to be, or maybe even better: full force all day up until I go to sleep. I'm doing pushups throughout the day and night just because I have the energy and desire to. Have felt as close to 100% normal as I can recall feeling in the last 6 months these last 2 days on all fronts- mentally (100%), physically (110%), sexually (90-95%) . Ive had a few short lived glimpses of this total normalcy the past few months, but one aspect or another would always fade within a couple of hours. This has been consistent full body (near-) normalcy for 2, going on 3, days straight, and that is something to be celebrated.
Intriguing that this is coming right on the heels of the previous anxiety episode I thought was going to be the start of a prolonged downswing. I've noticed quite a few times since this all started that I always feel the worst right before I feel the best (up to that point anyway), but none of the previous pendulum swings have compared to this.
My body is really responding to the protocol in a visually evident manner. I am beginning to not recognize myself, and honestly, that's fine by me. My fiance is duly pleased with the muscle and sculpting taking place (of course). I credit most of this to the extra lifting stamina afforded by the herbs coupled with backloading and not wavering on any fronts, including dietary (pea protein powder being the only exception- am almost finished that jar and will be using egg white protein from here on out), for a solid month now.
A switch has officially flipped, and I'm no longer "hoping" and "believing" this will work. I now "know" this will not only cure me, but will shoot me well past whatever degree of being I was at before. That thought has autonomously planted itself in my mind now, and it is there growing roots and strength to withstand any future doubts or fears. I've begun to see the pre-PFS me not as something to work back to, but as something to transcend. This is a pivotal paradigm shift for me.
I've begun a quick cold shower rinse (30 seconds now, building up to 1 minute) first thing when I wake up in the morning, in addition to later in the day, and can't see me dropping this twice a day routine now that I've tasted its fruits.
In other news, my fiance has been inspired to take back up her fitness and health food practices in response to seeing me do TMO work day in and day out.
I know this seeming homeostasis can fluctuate or crumble at any time, but the psychological and viewpoint shifts that have occured as a result of this uptick will be there to remind me to push forward no matter what.

[Cdsnuts]

Good job.

Keep at it. Always.

You will go past what you thought was possible. That's when the fun starts. Beating PFS is just the BEGINNING of this journey. Believe me. It get's pretty fucking amazing.

[lastnoirking87]

Good job.

Keep at it. Always.

You will go past what you thought was possible. That's when the fun starts. Beating PFS is just the BEGINNING of this journey. Believe me. It get's pretty fucking amazing.

Thanks for what you do, CD. I can never leave this path now, recovered or not. This feels too "right."

[lastnoirking87]

Things are continuing to either slowly improve or maintain their ground. Mood, physical energy/vitality, and mental sharpness are really doing great. I'm starting to get more keen to little improvements in the various areas. I've seen CD mention that guys will eventually become more in tune with their bodies, and I feel that is what is happening, and allowing for this enhanced discerning ability.
My mood and physical energy are by far benefiting the most. In these two categories I would actually say I'm better than I was for many years prior to PFS, and these categories are holding strong in their improvements. I wake up with energy and optimism, dying to go bask in the sun and work my body, and I go to sleep relaxed and at peace with where this is all headed, content with the work I am putting in, and the visible improvements in my physique; I'm not sure I would call myself a "skinny guy" anymore. My family and friends are commenting constantly on that front.
As far as mental clarity, I can say I have a bit to go. I can also say that the weird PFS brain fog/"thinking through a blanket" feeling has not shown a trace of itself for about a week, and that was something that used to make an appearance almost daily, even if just for a few hours. Although that hellish depth has seemingly been overcome, I can't say I'm at 100% mental sharpness yet, but I am damn close. In the last few days I've had these breakthrough moments where my mind starts running off with calculations whenever I'm doing any numerical figuring, and I catch myself doing it and think, holy shit, that's something my brain hasn't been doing for 6 months! It's nice to see some of that clarity/sharpness coming back online from time to time, and strange that I didn't really notice it was missing until it started popping back up.
On the sexual/libidinal front, we know that is the slowest to heal, so considering that I'm really satisfied with what progress is being made. ED is slowly fading, with ups and downs (pun intended), but the trajectory is now clearly in the right direction, which I couldn't say before the last week or 2. Along with that is libido, also up and down, but damn, after 5 months of almost zero (or even, at times, negative) libido, this is fairly amazing, and maybe the area of progress I am most thankful for. Visual arousal, something I had lost almost entirely, is actually coming back as well, and is assuredly also related to general libido, but damn, what a beautiful thing to experience again. There are sometimes a few days where this stuff is diminished, but I don't let it bother me at all, because seeing it keep coming back around stronger than before is enough to insulate me from my previous doomsday worries. Nofap is really working its magic in these areas as well. Outside of interaction with my fiance, I'm keeping things down there on lockdown.
....anyway, that's the current status. Put simply, things are great, and this shit no longer has any mental power over me. I feel like we are two combatants constantly circling each other, and I'm beginning to pin it down for longer and longer. It's just a matter of time before its energy runs out and I'm declared the winner :D
I've also received some high grade Tribulus in the mail which I am really looking forward to working into my herb rotation. I feel like every week the herbs hit stronger, which is likely due to my baseline health constantly improving.

[lastnoirking87]

....another observation regarding hair. I am tempted to not make notice of this, because I feel it could be my mind playing tricks on me, but I could swear my beard is beginning to grow at its normal rate again, and that my head hair needs washing more frequently due to its getting more oily quicker than its been doing for a while now.
...and another observation regarding skin...I've had an unusual amount of pimples pop up over the last 2 weeks on my face, back, shoulders, even chest to a lesser degree. I'm not talking puberty level, but more than I've had all at once in many years (?).

[lastnoirking87]

...one last thing, which I feel is very important evidence of dopamine recovery, is that I'm once again craving certain songs/music throughout the day. This is something I used to feel all the time, but appreciation for music disappeared along with everything else many months ago.

[lastnoirking87]

Well, looks like I've caught the first cold Ive had in 3 years and 3 months. I mistook the early symptoms for an impending downswing a couple of days ago and then it suddenly hit me like a truck last night. Full body aches and head pressure and fatigue. Temperature hovering at only about 100 though. I'm wondering if all the healthy living, including taking shilajit and royal jelly alongside my other herbs most days is what allowed this sickness to sort of hang in the background for a couple of days before it finally caught up with me. It was so subtle the first two days that I was still working out and doing HIIT, just wondering why my muscles were so sore and my sexual functioning was taking a nosedive for the first time in a while.
Anyhow, all the healthy living has me really hating illness right now. I'm just not content to love in bed and watch movies like I would have been in the past. I keep looking over at the sunshine outside and feeling an urge to go do something.
My new approach for this is going to be to take royal jelly and shilajit, and fast except for bone broth and apple cider vinegar. Still sitting out in the sun and taking vitamin d as well.
Seems so strange to me that I get sick for thefirst time in over 3 years while I'm in the midst of the protocol and living the healthiest I ever have.....literally the last thing I wanted to deal with right now, when everything was going so well.

[lastnoirking87]

So, now that I've done some research, it no longer seems ironic that I've just now gotten a flu sickness for the first time in over 3 years. I've somehow managed to go all these years without knowing that apparently higher testosterone and androgen levels in general make mens immune system more susceptible to these kinds of illnesses. This actually explains everything, including the fact that many on here have noted men struggling with PFS rarely get sick. In other words, I take this illness as a good sign, and it did indeed seem to come out of nowhere when I felt on top of my game physically/strength wise.

[lastnoirking87]

Well,to update, since getting sick last week, I've finally regained my baseline health. I was out of commission exactly 1 week. Went back to working out today, and fell a little short of my usual routine, but I think I'll be back to 100% next session. I probably lost a couple of lbs over the last week due to curtailing my caloric intake, and I fasted for the first 2 days of the illness as well. I kept taking my herbs, and took royal jelly and shilajit every day of the illness as well. I took minimal amounts of ibuprofen and mostly toughed it all out. I avoided cough drops since they contain menthol, and yes, I'm really that particular about avoiding testosterone inhibitors right now. The ibuprofen was necessary to get any sleep a few nights, however, and of course sabotaging my sleep would wreak havoc on my test anyway, so I figured it was a decent trade off. All in all, my sexual functioning has bounced back to where it was before I fell sick, and I just have to regain a small amount of lost ground in strength training and energy levels.
Anyway, although I was getting bummed out when I first fell ill, I'm just here to let everyone know it isnt necessarily going to destroy your gains, and in fact you can look at it as a good sign that your androgen levels are high enough to GET sick in the first place (see previous post), so nothing to fret about.
Onward and upwards!

[lastnoirking87]

...also, I really must confirm at this point the observations about my hair oiliness and facial hair growth rate having picked back up. First time I've looked at my head hair in the mirror and was genuinely happy to see it so quickly become oily and showing my scalp. The shit was dry and fluffy most of the past 6+ months, and that's really not normal for me. Fuck the hair. The worse it looks the better I feel.

[AltRoute]

Well,to update, since getting sick last week, I've finally regained my baseline health. I was out of commission exactly 1 week. Went back to working out today, and fell a little short of my usual routine, but I think I'll be back to 100% next session. I probably lost a couple of lbs over the last week due to curtailing my caloric intake, and I fasted for the first 2 days of the illness as well. I kept taking my herbs, and took royal jelly and shilajit every day of the illness as well. I took minimal amounts of ibuprofen and mostly toughed it all out. I avoided cough drops since they contain menthol, and yes, I'm really that particular about avoiding testosterone inhibitors right now. The ibuprofen was necessary to get any sleep a few nights, however, and of course sabotaging my sleep would wreak havoc on my test anyway, so I figured it was a decent trade off. All in all, my sexual functioning has bounced back to where it was before I fell sick, and I just have to regain a small amount of lost ground in strength training and energy levels.
Anyway, although I was getting bummed out when I first fell ill, I'm just here to let everyone know it isnt necessarily going to destroy your gains, and in fact you can look at it as a good sign that your androgen levels are high enough to GET sick in the first place (see previous post), so nothing to fret about.
Onward and upwards!

Yeah I was going to say that getting sick in this state is a good thing considering a number of people have mentioned that getting a cold or sickness sometimes is a precursor that they are on their way to recovery. But happy regarding the progress

[lastnoirking87]

Yeah I was going to say that getting sick in this state is a good thing considering a number of people have mentioned that getting a cold or sickness sometimes is a precursor that they are on their way to recovery. But happy regarding the progress
Right you are! At least, as far as I can tell personally, this certainly seems to be the case. Libido and over all sexual functioning first returned to where it was before the sickness, and has been improving even more since then. I feel like I'm so close to recovery that I can taste it. Have had a few days lately where I was totally 100%. I'm debating whether or not a prohormone run is even necessary, or if I should just stick to the herbs, since things are moving along so smoothly. I'll be at 2 months on the herbs and everything else in a couple of weeks, so I'm thinking I'll wait until the 3 month mark and see if progress has stalled. If so, I'll go ahead with the prohormone plan.

In other news, I recently added catuaba bark to my herb rotation as well.

[Cdsnuts]

Right you are! At least, as far as I can tell personally, this certainly seems to be the case. Libido and over all sexual functioning first returned to where it was before the sickness, and has been improving even more since then. I feel like I'm so close to recovery that I can taste it. Have had a few days lately where I was totally 100%. I'm debating whether or not a prohormone run is even necessary, or if I should just stick to the herbs, since things are moving along so smoothly. I'll be at 2 months on the herbs and everything else in a couple of weeks, so I'm thinking I'll wait until the 3 month mark and see if progress has stalled. If so, I'll go ahead with the prohormone plan.

In other news, I recently added catuaba bark to my herb rotation as well.

Great posts and very informative updates. You're coming along nicely my friend. If I were you, I would run the cycle. it's just going to bump you closer to where you want to be. Run it. And good job bro. Keep it up.

[lastnoirking87]

Great posts and very informative updates. You're coming along nicely my friend. If I were you, I would run the cycle. it's just going to bump you closer to where you want to be. Run it. And good job bro. Keep it up.

Well, you havent steered me wrong yet, so I think I shall take your advice here as well. Can you tell me how many bottles of UH will be needed to cover a full 6 week cycle at 5 pumps a day? Also, if I were to buy UH a few weeks before I plan to run it, does it need to be stored in any special conditions, like kept cold or out of sunlight or heat?

[Cdsnuts]

Well, you havent steered me wrong yet, so I think I shall take your advice here as well. Can you tell me how many bottles of UH will be needed to cover a full 6 week cycle at 5 pumps a day? Also, if I were to buy UH a few weeks before I plan to run it, does it need to be stored in any special conditions, like kept cold or out of sunlight or heat?

2 bottles, store in a cool, dark place

[lastnoirking87]

Hit some turbulence last few days. Had a solid week of feeling totally great, probably 5 of those 7 days at what I believe to be 100 %. The whole 9 yards was back, including morning wood and random penile stiffening throughout the day (I guess some call it random erections, but I havent just popped full blown erections randomly throughout the day since I was maybe 15), visual arousal
and libido at what I remember it to be/so damn close that I'd be the happiest camper to be able to stay there. Erection quality was totally back as well, including maintenance, and lack of premature ejaculation. This was the week immediately following my week long illness, so very interesting. I'm not gonna lie, for a few days there I was wondering if I was spontaneously cured. I mean, that is how normal I felt. This was undoubtedly the best I've felt, and the longest, since PFS hit 6/7 months ago.
Those improvements have gradually faded over the last few days, however, so here I am back at a sub-par level sexually and energetically. While it is of course demoralizing to come down from a high like that, I can at least take comfort in the fact that my upswings keep getting more and more dramatic. Prior to this previous upswing, I considered it a major achievement to maintain a calm, clear headed, and confident mindset along with vigorous physical energy for a week straight, so this last upswing is pretty noteworthy on all fronts.
As you can see from a recent post I made regarding prohormone questions, I am planning on running an Ultra Hard cycle in about a month. This recent upswing has me feeling like it would be best to wait till the 3 month mark for prohormones, since it feels like my body is just now starting to massively respond to things, and I dont want to overwhelm my system all at once. Additionally, I want to see what other upswings I can squeeze out of the current regimen.
Other news, I'm awaiting arrival of Lost Empire brand Cistanche and Barlowe's Herbal Elixirs brand Maral Root, which I'm looking forward to since getting so into the body building aspect of all of this. On that front, I've never looked better in my life. Muscles seem to grow visibly each week, and I'm noticing vascularity is really beginning to show, not only during and immediately following workouts, but permanently. I've read that this is an effect of elevated dht (?), so hopefully it's a good sign in that direction.
Just wanted to also add that I've made raisins a staple in my daily diet, typically later in the day, and moreso on backloading days, due to their boron content/the fact that I love them anyway.

[lastnoirking87]

Experiencing some irritability today and yesterday along with increased appetite. I'm fine with the appetite, since I think it's one of the things to have been a little muted since PFS started, and I generally correlate it with feeling better (in the past anyway). Also, eating more can only help me with the muscle building side of things. I'm not sure what to make of the irritability however. I've taken a bit more pine pollen powder lately, and started occasionally taking one dropperful of pine pollen tincture a couple days this week, but I dont know if that would really be to blame. Also not sure if I should view the irritability in a positive or negative light. I know prohormones sometimes enhance irritability, so maybe it's just my androgen levels shooting up and catching other parts of my system off guard. Thank god I work from home and dont have to deal with traffic. Still more or less in a downswing state, sexually dysfunctional but with sexual thoughts and some libido. I must be a rare case to see my libido and sexual brain activity returning this early, and erectile function lagging behind. I am accustomed to reading logs wherein these things happen in the reverse order, but I guess theres no strict script with all of this.

[lastnoirking87]

All I'm gonna say in this quick update is that my swings are becoming more dramatic. Being that, prior to starting the protocol, I didnt even have swings, but just extremely slow, almost indecipherable, progress in symptoms, it's really clear to me that hitting this protocol is like snapping a whip over PFS. It gets things moving along at a giddy-up pace. Sure, the downswings suck, but I'd rather be ricocheting up and down, and at least tasting normalcy, rather than trudging along in the mud. All this back and forth can wear you out if you're over-analytical, but now that they're really picking up pace, I think I'm learning pretty quick to ignore the bad moments and enjoy the good ones. I get frustrated at the bad stretches, sure, even irritable, but I just use that as fuel to go harder.

[lastnoirking87]

I've been experiencing wide fluctuations in sexual symptoms over the course of a single day. Today, for instance, I had strong libido and erection quality for a few hours. Felt like 98% normal. Then it faded over the last few hours. This has been happening a good bit lately, in the course of a single day. I'm occasionally getting these glimpses of being norma or near-normall, then falling back off hours later. Hard to say how this fits in with the upswing/downswing pattern, as its so fast-paced. I wonder if my sexual status will level off somewhere in the middle here for a while, or if I'm going to be swinging up and down, day in and day out, for a long time to come. I literally have no idea what to expect from myself sexually at any given moment until I give it a go. I could be a 10, or a 1. One thing that is for sure, when there is notably heightened libido, sexual functioning is always closer to normal. This fast-paced fluctuation is pretty new to me, but I suppose it's better than trudging in the mud. I hope I'm interpreting the constant swinging correctly in seeing it as evidence of healing taking place. The only user who I saw make specific mention of this sort of thing was Rahaysa, who said near the end of his journey that his sexual functioning was fluctuating throughout the course of a day. Quite possible others have experienced this but simply didn't see it worth mentioning. Really trying my best to not get obsessed with it, but it's more of a positive thing I think....

[lastnoirking87]

Today us the first time I can say the tongkat really showed it's true form to me. I had noticed it in a subtle way before, but today it just kicked me in the face. Shot my libido, strength, and energy through the roof after my first dose of 2 scoops (with the mini spoon provided by Lost Empire). My second dose of the day was a little over 1 scoop. I think I've finally found my personal dosage for this one. I had previously been doing a single scoop twice a day. I think theres a little more going on than just upping my dose, however, because another point I wanted to make in this post is that the herbs ALL continue to hit even harder than before. This tells me a lot of (presumably) good things are going on beneath the surface and allowing these herbs to shine forth.
On this note, I want to update my herb rotation list, as I've added new things and switch hedy around some of the ordering. I know it's probably not really important, but I do like to have a reasoning behind my ordering. For instance, I want to spread out herbs that function in a similar manner over the course of the whole run rather than place them back to back, if I can. Anyways, heres the current rotation in order, all Lost Empire unless specified otherwise...

Horny Goat Weed
Dopa Mucuna (NOW Foods)
Pine Pollen tincture
Gelatinized Black Maca (Nourishing Nutrients)
Ant Extract
Tribulus (MediHerb)
Schisandra & pine pollen tincture combo
Tongkat Ali (2 days in a row)
Catuaba Bark (TerraVita brand)
Cistanche
Maral Root Extract (Barlowe's Herbal Elixirs)
He Shou Wu
Cordyceps
Ashwagandha
Rhodiola
Butea Superba (SMS brand)
Shilajit has been a daily thing for about a month now, only occasionally taking a couple days off
Royal Jelly has been 4-5 day a week thing for about a month as well, usually just taking one capsule a day

[lastnoirking87]

2 weeks sor far on this upswing, and holding steady it seems. As of the last week, libido is constant and pretty strong (anywhere from, say, 80%-90% of normal). Feels like a new baseline has been reached on the sexual symptoms. Premature ejaculation is becoming less and less of an issue, and maintenance is steadily improving as well. Also taking closer to normal time to get an erection. There are more and more instances of normal or nearly-normal sexual functioning now. Brain-penis connection feels like its returning to normal as well.
There are concomitant improvements in the mental department happening as well, aside from just libido. My brain is sharper and quicker on a consistent basis lately. I honestly underestimated how much of an impact this had on my mental functioning when I first began logging my progress. Emotions, memory recall, clarity of sensory stimuli, everything that it takes to be a normally functioning healthy human, basically, is feeling more and more normal with time.
While I'm not even at recovery status yet, I can just feel how amazing life will be once I officially reclaim my overall health and put the downswings behind me, and I'm basically drunk on the promise of reaching that down the line. To consistently feel this clear and optimized (well, actually more so once the finish line is reached) on a daily basis for the rest of my life is the most tantalizing prospect I can imagine.
Physically, I feel like I'm 15 or something, but better, because my strength and overall physical fitness is far greater than it was at that age. Energy levels are about that of me at 15, however. It's hard to really put into words, but this isnt the feeling of being hopped up on speed or propped up by a pharmaceutical. It's the feeling of everything functioning optimally. I got to sleep and wake up like this.
The more improvements I notice, the more driven I am to strictly adhere to this lifestyle, and the more happy I am to do so.
Anyway, the long in the short of it is, I'm having more good days than bad now, upswings are lasting longer, and new baselines are being reached. The idea of returning to my old normal self is not the goal or the desire anymore, as I actually feel so much better than that in many ways already, so the drive here is to move forward into a new, optimized version of myself.

[PashaSolid]

2 weeks sor far on this upswing, and holding steady it seems. As of the last week, libido is constant and pretty strong (anywhere from, say, 80%-90% of normal). Feels like a new baseline has been reached on the sexual symptoms. Premature ejaculation is becoming less and less of an issue, and maintenance is steadily improving as well. Also taking closer to normal time to get an erection. There are more and more instances of normal or nearly-normal sexual functioning now. Brain-penis connection feels like its returning to normal as well.
There are concomitant improvements in the mental department happening as well, aside from just libido. My brain is sharper and quicker on a consistent basis lately. I honestly underestimated how much of an impact this had on my mental functioning when I first began logging my progress. Emotions, memory recall, clarity of sensory stimuli, everything that it takes to be a normally functioning healthy human, basically, is feeling more and more normal with time.
While I'm not even at recovery status yet, I can just feel how amazing life will be once I officially reclaim my overall health and put the downswings behind me, and I'm basically drunk on the promise of reaching that down the line. To consistently feel this clear and optimized (well, actually more so once the finish line is reached) on a daily basis for the rest of my life is the most tantalizing prospect I can imagine.
Physically, I feel like I'm 15 or something, but better, because my strength and overall physical fitness is far greater than it was at that age. Energy levels are about that of me at 15, however. It's hard to really put into words, but this isnt the feeling of being hopped up on speed or propped up by a pharmaceutical. It's the feeling of everything functioning optimally. I got to sleep and wake up like this.
The more improvements I notice, the more driven I am to strictly adhere to this lifestyle, and the more happy I am to do so.
Anyway, the long in the short of it is, I'm having more good days than bad now, upswings are lasting longer, and new baselines are being reached. The idea of returning to my old normal self is not the goal or the desire anymore, as I actually feel so much better than that in many ways already, so the drive here is to move forward into a new, optimized version of myself.



That’s what I like to hear, keep that foot on that gas pedal brother don’t let up not one bit you got this

[lastnoirking87]

That’s what I like to hear, keep that foot on that gas pedal brother don’t let up not one bit you got this
Full speed ahead for life, my man.

[lastnoirking87]

I see theres a flurry of activity on the forum last week or so, so figured I'd do an update. Like with so many before me, once you start approaching an acceptable degree of normal health again, theres a sudden urge to relax (finally), and part of that is a tendency to check in on the forum less.
Since my last update, Ive had mostly good or great days, and a few bad ones, but almost no terrible ones. The long in the short of it is, healing is undeniably occuring.
I smiled through a month long upswing that saw me enjoying probably a week and a half worth of days where I was at that golden 90-95% state. As mentioned in a recent update, my sexual sides are definitely subsiding. A new baseline has been created, so even whe I hit my 2 day downswing just a few days ago, it wasnt that terrible. That's not to say I didnt sort of freak out at first, having had a month of slow and steady improvement, but I was frustrated over a degree of functioning that I would have been THANKFUL for just a couple of months ago. Anyways, that downswing came and went in 2 days, and I'm back on an upswing, feeling great energetically, mentally, and physically, and anywhere from decent to great sexually. Today was one of those days where everything was normal, except for a touch of libido, so it's what I call a 95% day.
I've still not done the Ultea Hard that I bought a month ago,l because, honestly, I'm just doing so damn good, kind of enjoying the ride in some masochistic self-overcoming way, and learning to really listen to my intuition. I've never been great at that, as I tend to be an extreme overthinker, but this whole ordeal is teaching me 1.) What my body-derived intuition is, separate from my ego-driven overthinking, and 2.) to trust it!
My intuition has been telling me since about 2 weeks on protocol that I was definitely healing and that yes, it would be a non-linear path with ups and downs, but that healing is absolutely occuring over all. My overthinking would sometimes step in and say, "what if it isnt a general upward trend, but just a directionless scrambling of hormones?"
Fast forward to today, almost 3 months later, and I'm having way more good days than bad. In otherwords, it's clear healing is taking place, and that the trend is upwards, i.e., that my intuition was of course correct from the beginning.
All the little missing parts of my personality keep trickling back in, sexual and otherwise. I first catch fleeting glimpses of them, and then they return more boldly, and then eventually they just stick around. Its bizarre and beautiful, in a strange way, just how delicate the whole process of returning to hormonal homeostasis is, and insanely intriguing that we get to see, by paying close attention to our thoughts and emotions throughout all of this, just how minutely intricate this whole process is.
The general trend reminds me of a relic being slowly washed onto the shore. First just a bit of the item can be seen in the distance, mostly obscured by the waves, and then it becomes more and more visible as the tides repeatedly nudge it further towards shore, where it finally nestles into the sand and stays put.
I want to say, I truly credit my progress this far to being totally over the top by-the-book as far as the TMO protocol. I haven't cheated on diet once, or drank a drop of alcohol, or really done anything outside of the established regimen, and the reason is because I dont want to. I want to feel what it is to be a completely invigorated male functioning at his optimal capacity every day.

[Readytonut]

Congrats man really nice to hear another recovery story. Keep up the work. It would be really interesting if you can keep the progress you've made even after stopping the herbs. Are you planning on stopping the herbs sometimes soon?

[lastnoirking87]

Congrats man really nice to hear another recovery story. Keep up the work. It would be really interesting if you can keep the progress you've made even after stopping the herbs. Are you planning on stopping the herbs sometimes soon?
Well, I'm not considering myself recovered yet, and as far as I know, recovery might be a long ways off. My sexual functioning still fluctuates, and my mental/energy functioning can still bottom out when a downswing hits. Even though this last downswing was only 2 days, and they do seem to be getting shorter and less severe, I unfortunately am not banking on that being a permanent achievement until more time has passed. So, until I'm maintaining that 90-100% state for 3 months straight, I'll consider myself still in the trenches, and act accordingly. As for the herb usage, I plan to keep using them all for long after the point of recovery, as I'm going to keep up TMO well after that. I'm actually most looking forward to recovery so that I can see what levels of optimization I can unlock beyond that. I'll keep updating any major changes on the road to recovery.

[lastnoirking87]

Added glycine to my supplement arsenal a month ago. I take 2 1000 mg capsules around mid day because I've found that it actually seems to have a stimulant effect on me. I'm also getting about 2.6 grams of glycine via my morning gelatin dose that I out into my coffee, so I'm getting close to 5 g a day.
Also started taking L reuteri probiotic from swanson a month ago, and have finally, in the last week or more, been having consistently normal stool. I was using both PB8 and S Boullardi (rotatingeach, 1 month at a time), prior to the reuteri, but never saw any notable improvements until now. There is some suspicion, based on rat studies, that reuteri in particular may support testosterone maintenance as well, so I highly suggest anyone having digestion/stool issues to try that it for a month.

[Readytonut]

Do you still have the premature ejaculation? I developed that recently after i stopped the herbs. Now im worse than before

[lastnoirking87]

Do you still have the premature ejaculation? I developed that recently after i stopped the herbs. Now im worse than before
No, that has been gone for a few weeks now. It was here and there during the start of my previous upswing, and seemed to iron itself out finally. That resolving itself went hand in hand with a cascade of other major improvements in that department. Knock on fuckin wood it stays the hell away 😄

[Thetfordboy]

Do you still have the premature ejaculation? I developed that recently after i stopped the herbs. Now im worse than before

Sometimes it can be part of the recovery process though,you can regress and then come around. Progress in this isn't linear remember.

[Cdsnuts]

Well, I'm not considering myself recovered yet, and as far as I know, recovery might be a long ways off. My sexual functioning still fluctuates, and my mental/energy functioning can still bottom out when a downswing hits. Even though this last downswing was only 2 days, and they do seem to be getting shorter and less severe, I unfortunately am not banking on that being a permanent achievement until more time has passed. So, until I'm maintaining that 90-100% state for 3 months straight, I'll consider myself still in the trenches, and act accordingly. As for the herb usage, I plan to keep using them all for long after the point of recovery, as I'm going to keep up TMO well after that. I'm actually most looking forward to recovery so that I can see what levels of optimization I can unlock beyond that. I'll keep updating any major changes on the road to recovery.

Great job.

If I had to wager a guess, which I typically don't like to do, if things continue on the way they have been for you, you're probably looking at another six months before your baseline SETS into practically healed.

Remember, just keep going. Don't stop.

[lastnoirking87]

Great job.

If I had to wager a guess, which I typically don't like to do, if things continue on the way they have been for you, you're probably looking at another six months before your baseline SETS into practically healed.

Remember, just keep going. Don't stop.
Youve been very accurate in your timeline estimates over the years, from what I've seen, so it's great to hear that from you. 6 months, no biggie. It's getting easier and bizarrely enjoyable, anticipating the unveiling of the new "me" on the flip side of all this.

[Cdsnuts]

Youve been very accurate in your timeline estimates over the years, from what I've seen, so it's great to hear that from you. 6 months, no biggie. It's getting easier and bizarrely enjoyable, anticipating the unveiling of the new "me" on the flip side of all this.

And THAT my friend, is the pot of gold at the end of this fucked up rainbow! Nice to see you've been paying attention. I mean......it has been a decade man....I kinda know what I'm taking about at this point.......lol

Happy for you bro.

[lastnoirking87]

Had an absolutely amazing week and a half/2 weeks so far. Felt like puberty hitting again about a week ago, with libido skyrocketing higher than it's been since crashing roughly 8 months ago. It's been hovering between good and great for 2 weeks now. I've been able to get back to normal sex in the last 3 weeks or so, with a refractory period of about 20 minutes for a second round (that's longer than my normal 5 minutes but hey, I'll take it). I am intentionally limiting sex induced orgasm to no more than 2 on a day, and am occasionally edging, but almost never orgasming while masturbating (it does occasionally happen though). I'm also really learning to love the benefits of accumulating orgasm energy, rather than expelling it. It used to be nearly impossible to withhold the urge to release, but I have come to see what a massive difference it makes in energy and libido levels.
*Almost* every day I get the alpha male intoxication (maybe I should call it the TMO high) at some point during my exercises, and occasionally before I start them. Everything clears up, so to speak, and I'm calm, confident, brimming with energy and desire to expel effort and strength, and of course sexual desire. It's basically like an antidepressant, a stimulant, a steroid, and an aphrodisiac all rolled into one. It's amazing to think humans have the capacity to feel like this naturally. The pharmaceutical industry would literally go belly-up if guys all got on TMO.
Couple things I wanted to write down here for the sake of cataloging my journey. Firstly, I started getting mild trigger finger and finger/palm soreness a couple of weeks ago. It would be bad upon waking up and go away after being awake an hour or so. I decided I was probably going too hard at the weightlifting. Prior to that, since the start of my journey here, I've been doing 2 hours in a home gym every other day.
That means 2 hours of more or less non stop full body weight training, given that it is a home gym setup with zero distractions (Weider weight machine, free weights, pull up bars, etc.). I therefore cut back to 1.25 hr workouts with 2 days between sessions to let my hands recover a bit, and things have actually been going better since then. I'm still doing my HIIT and low impact cardio (intentionally low speed bicycling, to avoid cortisol spikes and still get the benefit of prolonged sun exposure) on the in-between days, along with brief 15 minute dumbbell and bodyweight exercises. Once my hands get totally healed (which they are slowly doing), I will set my routine at 1 - 1.25 hours max weightlifting every other day. I just wanted to make a note here that, while I think it was probably good for me to blow past my limits early on with the all-out 2 hour weight sessions, I feel like I'm now at a point of health where I should actually reel that in, and leave more room for hormonal recovery at the end of the day.
Something else I've added to my routine is grounding, aka earthing. I'm taking a 30 minute slow paced barefoot walk on grassy earth every day at sunset. Please do yourselves a favor and look up the benefits of earthing/grounding. It's like cold showers in a sense. It's free, requires little to no effort, and does amazing things for your health.
I've had some glimpses of the future, and it is clear to me that I will blow past my pre-PFS state at the end of this recovery period (I've actually already done so intermittently and temporarily). The beast is rattling its cage, and I'm ridiculously excited to let him out for good....

[Cdsnuts]

Had an absolutely amazing week and a half/2 weeks so far. Felt like puberty hitting again about a week ago, with libido skyrocketing higher than it's been since crashing roughly 8 months ago. It's been hovering between good and great for 2 weeks now. I've been able to get back to normal sex in the last 3 weeks or so, with a refractory period of about 20 minutes for a second round (that's longer than my normal 5 minutes but hey, I'll take it). I am intentionally limiting sex induced orgasm to no more than 2 on a day, and am occasionally edging, but almost never orgasming while masturbating (it does occasionally happen though). I'm also really learning to love the benefits of accumulating orgasm energy, rather than expelling it. It used to be nearly impossible to withhold the urge to release, but I have come to see what a massive difference it makes in energy and libido levels.
*Almost* every day I get the alpha male intoxication (maybe I should call it the TMO high) at some point during my exercises, and occasionally before I start them. Everything clears up, so to speak, and I'm calm, confident, brimming with energy and desire to expel effort and strength, and of course sexual desire. It's basically like an antidepressant, a stimulant, a steroid, and an aphrodisiac all rolled into one. It's amazing to think humans have the capacity to feel like this naturally. The pharmaceutical industry would literally go belly-up if guys all got on TMO.
Couple things I wanted to write down here for the sake of cataloging my journey. Firstly, I started getting mild trigger finger and finger/palm soreness a couple of weeks ago. It would be bad upon waking up and go away after being awake an hour or so. I decided I was probably going too hard at the weightlifting. Prior to that, since the start of my journey here, I've been doing 2 hours in a home gym every other day.
That means 2 hours of more or less non stop full body weight training, given that it is a home gym setup with zero distractions (Weider weight machine, free weights, pull up bars, etc.). I therefore cut back to 1.25 hr workouts with 2 days between sessions to let my hands recover a bit, and things have actually been going better since then. I'm still doing my HIIT and low impact cardio (intentionally low speed bicycling, to avoid cortisol spikes and still get the benefit of prolonged sun exposure) on the in-between days, along with brief 15 minute dumbbell and bodyweight exercises. Once my hands get totally healed (which they are slowly doing), I will set my routine at 1 - 1.25 hours max weightlifting every other day. I just wanted to make a note here that, while I think it was probably good for me to blow past my limits early on with the all-out 2 hour weight sessions, I feel like I'm now at a point of health where I should actually reel that in, and leave more room for hormonal recovery at the end of the day.
Something else I've added to my routine is grounding, aka earthing. I'm taking a 30 minute slow paced barefoot walk on grassy earth every day at sunset. Please do yourselves a favor and look up the benefits of earthing/grounding. It's like cold showers in a sense. It's free, requires little to no effort, and does amazing things for your health.
I've had some glimpses of the future, and it is clear to me that I will blow past my pre-PFS state at the end of this recovery period (I've actually already done so intermittently and temporarily). The beast is rattling its cage, and I'm ridiculously excited to let him out for good....

Great post.

Congrats.

[lastnoirking87]

I was on a really long winning streak there. I almost forgot what PFS was. Anyhow, last few days, I've come down a bit. It was a gradual fading of gains, not a sudden loss upon waking up one day.
The major peak of the previous upswing was a solid two weeks long, and for that time period, I was cured. I was actually above my normal sexual functioning for a good 5 days or so. So, erectile function and libido were anywhere from pre-PFS baseline to ABOVE that for 2 weeks straight.
While I've not done prohormones yet, and am still intent on kicking the can down the road a while, I experienced all the major symptoms guys seem to speak of during their successful ph runs during that upswing peak. My dick was actually bigger than normal, flaccid and erect, for most of that time. My fiance pointed it out on numerous occasions, so I know I'm not crazy (not too crazy anyway).
Anyhow, I wasnt expecting that high to stick this soon, but it was great to experience, and obviously fills your gas tank with motivation to keep pushing, despite what backsteps you might take going forward.
This "downswing" is mild compared to previous ones, but it's just clearly not the DHT-blast peak I was on previously. I still had sex twice last night despite it, but it's really clear that I've been taken down a few notches. I guess it's safe to say that I've established a new baseline, and hopefully I cant realistically fall to as deep of a depth as before (assuming I dont totally screw something up by way of eating or exposing myself to the wrong stimulus ), but I've also established a new height, and that height is actually, as I said before, beyond my pre-PFS state.
I wonder if your post-recovery TMO-fueled functioning is on par with the peak of your upswings, or if those upswing peaks are just hormones adjusting and possibly over shooting on some points, but not really a sustainable state post-recovery?
I mean, I felt like nothing short of Superman for those 2 weeks. That is the whole point of my existence going forward, is chasing that state of optimization, and hopefully harnessing it long-term.

[lastnoirking87]

...I also experienced firsthand what CD and Maxout have both stated since their recoveries, and had to reel in my herb dosing a bit for a while there. I was feeling their effects TOO much. Like, fuck, I was considering just benching the whole weight machine at one point LOL...
So, anyway, I got a glimpse of the future there. I can really see where you would want to reel in the herbs a good bit, and kinda just micro dose them, once you are at that fully optimized state.

[Readytonut]

...I also experienced firsthand what CD and Maxout have both stated since their recoveries, and had to reel in my herb dosing a bit for a while there. I was feeling their effects TOO much. Like, fuck, I was considering just benching the whole weight machine at one point LOL...
So, anyway, I got a glimpse of the future there. I can really see where you would want to reel in the herbs a good bit, and kinda just micro dose them, once you are at that fully optimized state.

You just reminded me of the time where i did the short herbcycle for around two weeks. Eventhough i only took the herbs once a day as supposed to twice a day my libido and aggression had become crazy high and the dosages i took wasn’t even that high. I can confirm that there is definitely a level of figuring out the right dosage for each person. Especially when you take stuff like tonkat ali that is mostly available as 1:100 extract with those microspoons. You have to be careful not overdose that stuff….
I had a couple nights were i had a stiffy throughout the whole night, it made it quite uncomfortable to sleep with that. Hahha

[lastnoirking87]

You just reminded me of the time where i did the short herbcycle for around two weeks. Eventhough i only took the herbs once a day as supposed to twice a day my libido and aggression had become crazy high and the dosages i took wasn’t even that high. I can confirm that there is definitely a level of figuring out the right dosage for each person. Especially when you take stuff like tonkat ali that is mostly available as 1:100 extract with those microspoons. You have to be careful not overdose that stuff….
I had a couple nights were i had a stiffy throughout the whole night, it made it quite uncomfortable to sleep with that. Hahha

You really have a hyper response to the herbs. I think you could make that work in your favor by dosing lower than recommended amounts...maybe much lower, and including many more herbs, not only the really potent ones. But as always, that's not professional advice from me, just an idea of what I myself might do in that scenario.
For me, my response to the herbs has been slowly building since starting the protocol 4 months ago, but it spikes up when I'm in a major upswing. I believe it's simply because my body is more optimized at those times to begin with, and therefore less herbs are needed, rather than simply being a direct effect from the herbs. If it was just that, then dosing the same amount as always wouldn't sometimes cause these major responses. It's really because my body is undergoing progress as well, aside from the herb usage (partially as a result thereof).
Anyhow, I never felt the need to reel.in herb dosage prior to this previous upswing, and I only did so temporarily. I'm back to my normal dosing now.

[Readytonut]

You really have a hyper response to the herbs. I think you could make that work in your favor by dosing lower than recommended amounts...maybe much lower, and including many more herbs, not only the really potent ones. But as always, that's not professional advice from me, just an idea of what I myself might do in that scenario.

That’s exactly what i plan on doing.
The thing with the herbs is that i seem to naturally have an high level of E2 which first need to be adressed before raising my T further…
I think what happened is that my T got raised to a very high level and with my already high E2 i got like hypersexual. The ratio between the two was maybe more favorable when i was on cycle but it was to much of both if it makes sense. When i stopped everything all together my T got back down again and my E2 stayed high causing estrogen dominance and caused a week long downswing. My downswing/crashs are pretty rough especially the insomnia and tremors i get make it so much worse.

[Thetfordboy]

That’s exactly what i plan on doing.
The thing with the herbs is that i seem to naturally have an high level of E2 which first need to be adressed before raising my T further…
I think what happened is that my T got raised to a very high level and with my already high E2 i got like hypersexual. The ratio between the two was maybe more favorable when i was on cycle but it was to much of both if it makes sense. When i stopped everything all together my T got back down again and my E2 stayed high causing estrogen dominance and caused a week long downswing. My downswing/crashs are pretty rough especially the insomnia and tremors i get make it so much worse.

Don't the herbs help balance everything?

[Readytonut]

Don't the herbs help balance everything?

Yeah thats true but i took them not long enough for this to happen, i think i have to take them at least for 3 month. I also have confirmed androgen receptor issues which probably causes my body to go into a bad homeostasis baseline. Thats why i have to start a long waterfast very soon to repair some gene damage and look into PH to raise receptor density

[Cdsnuts]

Don't the herbs help balance everything?

Yes, along with the rest of the protocol.

[Thetfordboy]

Yeah thats true but i took them not long enough for this to happen, i think i have to take them at least for 3 month. I also have confirmed androgen receptor issues which probably causes my body to go into a bad homeostasis baseline. Thats why i have to start a long waterfast very soon to repair some gene damage and look into PH to raise receptor density


posts like this scare me because it strays from the protocol and overwhelms me.

[Cdsnuts]

posts like this scare me because it strays from the protocol and overwhelms me.

It shouldn't scare you unless YOU plan on straying from the protocol.

No need to be alarmist.

[Thetfordboy]

It shouldn't scare you unless YOU plan on straying from the protocol.

No need to be alarmist.

I don't but it's just so foreign when the protocol keeps it simple

[Cdsnuts]

I don't but it's just so foreign when the protocol keeps it simple

This whole thing is foreign to most guys.

And is simple regardless.

Simply follow instructions.

[lastnoirking87]

Hello again, gents...wanted to do a little update. Nothing huge to report, other than that I've been hovering between somewhere slightly below pre-PFS sexual functioning and right at pre-PFS functioning. I've not had a major DHT blast upswing since I last reported the previous one, but my upswing since then has felt pretty normal (as in pre-PFS normal) in comparison. Nothing to complain about, as it basically feels like complete homeostasis on the sexual side of things. Erection function can sometimes be hit or miss real late at night/towards the end of the day, but generally it is anywhere from acceptable to great from morning through evening. Energy, stamina,strength wise, I'm still better than my pre-PFS status. Mood is good, very focused and optimistic, just not crazy euphoric/borderline manic (in a good way) like the previous upswing.
Like I said in one of my last updates, this last "downswing" was very mild, and it's kind of getting hard to tell between a downswing and an upswing, as things seem to sort of be leveling out. In other words, the lows arent as deep and the heights arent as high, though I'm hopeful I will be able to level up to somewhere near that previous blissful crazy good upswing once I'm recovered and beyond. If that became my new normal, Id be the happiest dude around, and that's kind of what I'm intentionally working towards.

I think the area with the biggest need for improvement currently is libido, which is to be expected. With everything else progressing pretty well, that's gonna be the last to really improve I can see. Lately, its here and there, but I cant go to sleep anand expect it to be there when I wake up. It can sort of do a disappearing act at any moment, and might take hours or days to really show back up with any noteworthy presence. So long as I'm sexually functioning, I can wait it out and give it the time it needs to fully replenish.

I've continued with the testicle cooling practice, 3 x's/day at 15 min. each time, and I can say that theres been quite a number of instances where I felt a distinct libido spike shortly after completing a session. Similar to dosing pine pollen for me. Sometimes I notice a libido spike within a half hour of taking the powder. Its happened enough times that I cant help but see the correlation. But who knows, it could simply be the stimulus of the cool sensation providing a placebo libido spike...I guess it's all the same in the end.

Only other topic of interest is that I'm going to be incorporating Barlowe's brand Muira Puama into my herb rotation starting tomorrow, and Suma Root by Terra Vita soon as well. Terra Vita is the brand which makes the outstanding Catuaba (one of my top favorite herbs) recommended by CD, so I have really high hopes for that one. I'll give a review of these 2 once I've had a chance to get acquainted with each.

For anyone who missed it, I highly recommend Barlowe's maral root. Been having some great workout kicks with that one.

Also started eating a high cholesterol diet on my cistanche day (minimum 6 eggs, lots of butter, etc.), as it's apparently pretty well known that coupling cistanche with high cholesterol foods kicks its test boosting properties into overdrive...something to read into if you're like me and looking to maximize every bit of effort you're putting into all this!

One last thing I wonder if anyone can shed some light on in the context of PFS. Last couple of months I've been feeling pretty stiff upon waking up in the morning. Joints feel stiff I mean. This goes away completely within about 10-15 minutes, but it's not really something I recall being so dramatic prior to PFS. It seems like it will clear up for a week or so, and then come back for multiple weeks on end. Anyone have any ideas what this might indicate? Or know if it's something common to PFS aside from my experience? I can say that my sleep has been sort of broken up last few months as well. I wake up more throughout the night to eat. I feel like my muscles might be signaling that they need more fuel or something, despite my pretty robust diet, because I oftentimes wake up pretty damn hungry, and dont really have any choice but to satiate my hunger. I'm interested in bulking up anyway, having started as a skinny dude, so I dont really care from a weight watching standpoint, but maybe the waking up is related to the morning stiffness?

[lastnoirking87]

Well, had a fantastic day with my first trial of Muira puama by Barlowe's. It's a little hard to say just how much of it was the direct result of the muira puama and how much was just me being on the ascent recently, but clearly the herb did nothing but help. Closest I've felt to my previous DHT Blast upswing since it ended. Gonna have to give this one a definite recommendation if looking for muira puama.
Libido, sexual function, energy, stamina, and mood all benefitted immensely. Did 1 hour of weights and couldn't resist the urge to hop on my bike and do 1.5 hours of slowish riding with intermittent uphill sprints. Enhanced music appreciation. Feels like I might be gearing up for another strong upswing peak, but we shall see...
Will be giving my feedback on Terra Vita's Suma root soon as well...

[lastnoirking87]

...also wanted to add that I've been incorporating both spirulina and chlorella (about a quarter tsp each) into my post weightlifting smoothies (every other day), to see how it goes. I used to take both of these at different times in the past, so its weird for me to feel like I need to feel things out with them now, but I possibly incorrectly associated a violent downswing back in December with my having ingested chlorella and spirulina earlier that day.
Anyhow, 3rd time adding it to my smoothie and havent noticed anything negative. I always had nothing but good things to say about these in the past, so hopefully they're going to be a part of my routine for good..

[Cdsnuts]

...also wanted to add that I've been incorporating both spirulina and chlorella (about a quarter tsp each) into my post weightlifting smoothies (every other day), to see how it goes. I used to take both of these at different times in the past, so its weird for me to feel like I need to feel things out with them now, but I possibly incorrectly associated a violent downswing back in December with my having ingested chlorella and spirulina earlier that day.
Anyhow, 3rd time adding it to my smoothie and havent noticed anything negative. I always had nothing but good things to say about these in the past, so hopefully they're going to be a part of my routine for good..

Thanks for the update.

[lastnoirking87]

Quick update...I am indeed back on a DHT blast streak as of the last 5 days or so. Sexual and every other category of functioning either at or above pre-PFS baseline.
While the Barlowes Muira Puama was great, I'm not sure I got much from the Terra Vita Suma Root, despite taking 4 (2 in morning and 2 in afternoon) on my first day trying it. I am going to give it another shot or 2 before condemning it, however, because even the best herbs dont always hit on the first run.
I've just placed an order for Eleuthero liquid alcohol extract from Herb Pharm which, incidentally, is the company that made the Suma Root extract recommended by CD (unfortunately it is no longer in stock), so I'll be giving feedback on that soon as I can. Looks like TMO previously linked to a Lost Empire eleuthero which is no longer produced, so hopefully Herb Pharm is up to the task.
At this point I use every single herb listed on TMO except for Iodine.
Shilajit I use every day, Royal Jelly I use about every other day, and I put Goji powder in my post workout smoothies about once a week, and I sporadically do a dropperful of Pine Pollen tincture on top of whatever the herb of the day is (in addition to reserving a day specifically for it), but other than that, everything else is on the typical TMO 1-a-day rotation.
Until next time.......

[lastnoirking87]

Just wanted to say that I have been on what I call a DHT blas upswing for 3 weeks straight now, save for maybe 3 days peppered throughout that period that I either felt lethargic or asexual or both. The good news is that I keep bouncing back from these little dips (I cant even call them downswings at this point). I have been totally focused and taking no breaks or shortcuts whatsoever this whole period, hoping to get the most out of all the obvious hormonal and biological activity going on. I actually hit a 10 day long no fap streak early on in this upswing (actually I fapped most of those days, but didnt cum for 10 days), and that seemed to REALLY kick shit into high gear. Whenever I feel like I might be a little weak at the weights or like my energy might be dipping on the bike during HIIT, I just double down and go even harder. I can swear I've reversed these dips a number of times just over the course of a single workout just by pushing myself to the extreme and focusing my mental efforts at blowing past my limitations. There were a few days that I feel were going to go one way, but after my workout, they turned right the fuck around and then spurred on an upward trend in the days following. Feels like I'm engaged in a wrestling match at this point, but I'm victorious with a little extra effort most of the time.

Last point of interest is that Herb Pharm's eleuthero root extract is great. I got a great kick from it (2 droppers in the morning and 2 in the afternoon) on the first run, and will definitely be ordering the bigger bottle next time.

Feeling more normal than I have since crashing lately...I can feel and taste victory at this point, and it has me so incredibly focused and aggressively intent on reaching my destination. My fiance keeps pointing out some thing or another, whether it be my sexual performance or what she calls the smell of testosterone I'm apparently emitting on a regular basis, and claiming that so far as she can tell, I am healed. While I.know that isnt the case yet, it feels pretty good to at least pass for healed by someone so close to you.

[Readytonut]

Keep up the good work brother. Your journey is one that motivates me if hit a downswing.

I just researched about creatine and saw your post from a couple months ago. Did you use creatine in your protocol? is it even allow during the protocoll?

[AltRoute]

Just wanted to say that I have been on what I call a DHT blas upswing for 3 weeks straight now, save for maybe 3 days peppered throughout that period that I either felt lethargic or asexual or both. The good news is that I keep bouncing back from these little dips (I cant even call them downswings at this point). I have been totally focused and taking no breaks or shortcuts whatsoever this whole period, hoping to get the most out of all the obvious hormonal and biological activity going on. I actually hit a 10 day long no fap streak early on in this upswing (actually I fapped most of those days, but didnt cum for 10 days), and that seemed to REALLY kick shit into high gear. Whenever I feel like I might be a little weak at the weights or like my energy might be dipping on the bike during HIIT, I just double down and go even harder. I can swear I've reversed these dips a number of times just over the course of a single workout just by pushing myself to the extreme and focusing my mental efforts at blowing past my limitations. There were a few days that I feel were going to go one way, but after my workout, they turned right the fuck around and then spurred on an upward trend in the days following. Feels like I'm engaged in a wrestling match at this point, but I'm victorious with a little extra effort most of the time.

Last point of interest is that Herb Pharm's eleuthero root extract is great. I got a great kick from it (2 droppers in the morning and 2 in the afternoon) on the first run, and will definitely be ordering the bigger bottle next time.

Feeling more normal than I have since crashing lately...I can feel and taste victory at this point, and it has me so incredibly focused and aggressively intent on reaching my destination. My fiance keeps pointing out some thing or another, whether it be my sexual performance or what she calls the smell of testosterone I'm apparently emitting on a regular basis, and claiming that so far as she can tell, I am healed. While I.know that isnt the case yet, it feels pretty good to at least pass for healed by someone so close to you.

Proud of you dude! You know things are going up when other people notice the positive changes .

[lastnoirking87]

Keep up the good work brother. Your journey is one that motivates me if hit a downswing.

I just researched about creatine and saw your post from a couple months ago. Did you use creatine in your protocol? is it even allow during the protocoll?

Thanks man, I am realy happy to hear my recovery log is helping you, because I rely on many to help me move forward as well...
I did not ever buy any creatine, and at this point in the game I'm kind of just intent on not to keyring with my formula since it seems to be working so well. I do take sorghum flour every other day though, and that gives the dht boost that creatine also offers.
Post-recovery I will likely get into creatine, but not before then I dont think.

[isseo]

Does sorghum flour have an effect on DHT? I didn't know at all. I searched the internet, I found nothing. It would be interesting if I incorporated that into my diet then.


For creatine, it seems to me that it is not recommended during the protocol. To confirm.

[Readytonut]

Thanks man, I am realy happy to hear my recovery log is helping you, because I rely on many to help me move forward as well...
I did not ever buy any creatine, and at this point in the game I'm kind of just intent on not to keyring with my formula since it seems to be working so well. I do take sorghum flour every other day though, and that gives the dht boost that creatine also offers.
Post-recovery I will likely get into creatine, but not before then I dont think.

I think i desperately need the dht boost aswell but isnt sorghum flour technically non paleo and a grain? At least its gluten free
Btw. have you noticed any testicles growth since the start of the protocol?



Does sorghum flour have an effect on DHT? I didn't know at all. I searched the internet, I found nothing. It would be interesting if I incorporated that into my diet then.

For creatine, it seems to me that it is not recommended during the protocol. To confirm.


Just google „sorghum flour dht“ and a bunch of articles pop up

Creatine seems pretty controversial, some say its ok and some say not to take.

[isseo]

ah, on the internet in France, by writing this on Google, nothing appears. I think that in France, we are behind the Anglo-Saxon countries.

Also, in my country, very few people eat sorghum.

If it's ok despite it not being paleo, I'll buy it.
Thanks !

[lastnoirking87]

I think i desperately need the dht boost aswell but isnt sorghum flour technically non paleo and a grain? At least its gluten free
Btw. have you noticed any testicles growth since the start of the protocol?

My testicles didnt shrink to a degree that I found it noticeable, but that doesnt mean they didnt shrink at all. I simply wasnt paying that much attention to their size before or during crashing...I definitely had quite a few instances of ball ache in the early months of crashing however. Only thing I can say for sue is that, lately, they look fuller more often than they did since crashing. It's possible they are getting closer to their normal pre-crash size, but I just didnt pay much attention beforehand. Or who knows, maybe they're just getting larger than they've ever been. My fiance claims my junk is bigger now, even flaccid, so I guess its possible.

I would recommend taking L. Reuteri Plus probiotic by swanson. You can find it on Amazon. In addition to s. Boullardi and PB8, this is one of the probiotics I am cycling. I take each one for a month and then move to another. Thw reason I'm suggesting this one in particular to you is that it has been suggested, based on animal models, that Reuteri probiotics can increase testosterone and user reviews for this product on amazon repeatedly mention bigger nuts after using it.

- - - Updated - - -

[QUOTE=Readytonut;72156]I think i desperately need the dht boost aswell but isnt sorghum flour technically non paleo and a grain? At least its gluten free
Btw. have you noticed any testicles growth since the start of the protocol?





Just google „sorghum flour dht“ and a bunch of articles pop up

Creatine seems pretty controversial, some say its ok and some say not to take.
Hey, sorry, please read my above post as it was intended to be a response to you.

[lastnoirking87]

Been a minute since I updated, so just thought I catch up a bit.
So, I feel like it's safe to say I'm done with bad downswings. I also appear to be done with long downswings. The new trend seems to be experiencing these "dips" that last anywhere from half a day to three days, during which time libido is very low and even visual arousal and manual arousal can be difficult to achieve (but not impossible, which is important to note). I get there eventually, but it's clear my sexual drive is low once I'm there, and erection maintenance can be a little shaky sometimes. Coupled with a bit more lethargy at my workouts, and maybe a slightly reduced appetite, that's about the extent of my downswings at this point (as of the last 1.5 months about), so hence, I call them "dips," so far lasting no more than 3 days.
I usually go an average of 1 week or so between these dips, during which time things feel about 95% on the sexual front, and 100% on every other front. The real missing piece on the sexual front is still my old libido. I can see that will take quite some time to really fall back into place, but I cant say I wasnt informed of that repeatedly by the many posts here on SS. Anyhow, I'm hoping the absence of severe downswings is a good indication of major progress, as it feels to me to be so. Also the relatively stable sexual functioning is great, but of course I really am missing that crazy libido. I will keep doing my thing and letting you guys know how it's all coming along.
Over all, things are good. I'm getting so used to feeling relatively normal that I must admit I can get pretty "roid rage-y" when these dips last lore than a day, but ultimately I have to keep calm and remember just how far I've come in a relatively short time frame (due to working my ass off, no doubt).
Physically I look like a totally different person. My fiance says I look like a MMA fighter now (I began as a "skinny dude" 6 months ago). One day at the end of all this I'll try to upload some before and after photos just to show the power of TMO.

[Brooks]

Been a minute since I updated, so just thought I catch up a bit.
So, I feel like it's safe to say I'm done with bad downswings. I also appear to be done with long downswings. The new trend seems to be experiencing these "dips" that last anywhere from half a day to three days, during which time libido is very low and even visual arousal and manual arousal can be difficult to achieve (but not impossible, which is important to note). I get there eventually, but it's clear my sexual drive is low once I'm there, and erection maintenance can be a little shaky sometimes. Coupled with a bit more lethargy at my workouts, and maybe a slightly reduced appetite, that's about the extent of my downswings at this point (as of the last 1.5 months about), so hence, I call them "dips," so far lasting no more than 3 days.
I usually go an average of 1 week or so between these dips, during which time things feel about 95% on the sexual front, and 100% on every other front. The real missing piece on the sexual front is still my old libido. I can see that will take quite some time to really fall back into place, but I cant say I wasnt informed of that repeatedly by the many posts here on SS. Anyhow, I'm hoping the absence of severe downswings is a good indication of major progress, as it feels to me to be so. Also the relatively stable sexual functioning is great, but of course I really am missing that crazy libido. I will keep doing my thing and letting you guys know how it's all coming along.
Over all, things are good. I'm getting so used to feeling relatively normal that I must admit I can get pretty "roid rage-y" when these dips last lore than a day, but ultimately I have to keep calm and remember just how far I've come in a relatively short time frame (due to working my ass off, no doubt).
Physically I look like a totally different person. My fiance says I look like a MMA fighter now (I began as a "skinny dude" 6 months ago). One day at the end of all this I'll try to upload some before and after photos just to show the power of TMO.

I can relate to a lot of the above. Glad to hear you’re doing well! Curious, do you have penis size reduction during dips, flaccid or erect? Length and or girth changes at all?

[lastnoirking87]

I can relate to a lot of the above. Glad to hear you’re doing well! Curious, do you have penis size reduction during dips, flaccid or erect? Length and or girth changes at all?

If my erection quality isnt great during these dips, then yes, but I cant say that I notice any size changes while flaccid. Aside from erection quality fluctuations, size loss was something I never experienced throughout this whole fiasco. What I did experience a lot early on was a difference in the rigidity of my penis when flaccid. There was a more rubbery consistency when flaccid. This largely resolved itself when I stopped having. ad downswings about 1.5-2 months ago, but I occasionally notice a slight change in firmness when in a dip. Over all it seems to be ironing itself out.

[LetsGo]

Nice going, bro! You’re well on your way to recovery, keep going :)

[lastnoirking87]

Nice going, bro! You’re well on your way to recovery, keep going :)
Thanks man, and wishing you the best with the extended fast🥂

[lastnoirking87]

Shortly after making my last post, I came back down to my baseline, and have more or less been there the last 3-4 weeks. This is the longest I've gone without having a definite and sustained upswing since starting the protocol 6.5 months ago, so I'm wondering if the landscape is changing, and if that's really a good thing or if I'm plateauing or something. When on an upswing you get this unwavering impression that your recovery is clearly going in the right direction, but these last few weeks feel like limbo. It's not a downswing and it's not a forward march. Things are up a little and down alittle, but never too far from the baseline, which is somewhere slightly below my pre-PFS state I'd say. Everything happens in flickers lately. Libido, lack thereof, energy/enthusiasm/or lack thereof, comes and goes but doesnt really stick for more than a day or so.
If any vets are reading this, does a time come when upswings just stop? What exactly does that indicate? I am probably being impatient, but its nagging me that I've not gone this long without an upswing. My last one was a good month/month and a half or so in duration (the longest yet), so maybe it's going to be a little longer before another uptick....just staying calm and breathing in the interim...

[Maxout777]

Shortly after making my last post, I came back down to my baseline, and have more or less been there the last 3-4 weeks. This is the longest I've gone without having a definite and sustained upswing since starting the protocol 6.5 months ago, so I'm wondering if the landscape is changing, and if that's really a good thing or if I'm plateauing or something. When on an upswing you get this unwavering impression that your recovery is clearly going in the right direction, but these last few weeks feel like limbo. It's not a downswing and it's not a forward march. Things are up a little and down alittle, but never too far from the baseline, which is somewhere slightly below my pre-PFS state I'd say. Everything happens in flickers lately. Libido, lack thereof, energy/enthusiasm/or lack thereof, comes and goes but doesnt really stick for more than a day or so.
If any vets are reading this, does a time come when upswings just stop? What exactly does that indicate? I am probably being impatient, but its nagging me that I've not gone this long without an upswing. My last one was a good month/month and a half or so in duration (the longest yet), so maybe it's going to be a little longer before another uptick....just staying calm and breathing in the interim...

In my experience, when they stop and grow long like that, you’re getting closer and closer to the finish line. Especially someone like you who’s doing everything right.

[lastnoirking87]

In my experience, when they stop and grow long like that, you’re getting closer and closer to the finish line. Especially someone like you who’s doing everything right.

Hey man, great to hear from you over here. Your experience and insight really puts me at ease on this point. I guess the landscape really is changing as I'm getting further along. I just got so used to thinking in terms of being either Up or Down for so long...guess I'll look at this as a welcome change of scenery. Thanks a lot for the reply

[Thetfordboy]

Would you try prohormones man? I am no expert but boys here have said they improved after them.

[lastnoirking87]

Would you try prohormones man? I am no expert but boys here have said they improved after them.

Yes, I was originally planning on running ultra hard at the 3 month mark, but my upswings started within the first month of being on protocol, and just kept coming, and I kept making serious headway the whole time (more or less, despite the 2 forward 1 back paradigm), so I just put it off indefinitely.
I actually have the two bottles of ultra hard stored away, but something I swore I wasnt going to do was make any decisions out of desperation, so I'm going to give it some more time here, and if upswings remain elusive, I'll be looking at a cycle. Another thing is that I really want to get my estrogen checked before starting Ultra Hard, because I have to have a clear conscience before embarking on a whole new arm of this journey. I have found tht, for me, peace of mind is worth so much. It's the reason I have simply been opting out on any food or beverage that I am not absolutely 100% assured is safe for me at the moment. I am totally capable of falling prey to doubt or regret over a half baked decision and getting run over by that.
I have the feeling progress is actually occuring during this limbo period, as I am getting these brief glimpses of being more normal than ever before, but they just flicker on and off...its hard to describe. Something is definitely happening, not standing totally still...just not racing at breakneck speed towards the next milestone I guess...gonna give it all more time and just keep focused and positive.

[Thetfordboy]

Ok interesting, I am on the herbs and strict protocol 9 weeks now-7 weeks on herbs. To be honest my sides now are all sexual;0 libido and bad ed. Whilst my mental health has improved greatly since the crash in March I feel little to nothing of the herbs for my sexual sides.

I am dosing with pine pollen daily and all herbs on tmo. I have ordered the prohormones and am hoping they will move me in the right direction.

[Thetfordboy]

In my experience, when they stop and grow long like that, you’re getting closer and closer to the finish line. Especially someone like you who’s doing everything right.

Great to see you back Max

[lastnoirking87]

Ok interesting, I am on the herbs and strict protocol 9 weeks now-7 weeks on herbs. To be honest my sides now are all sexual;0 libido and bad ed. Whilst my mental health has improved greatly since the crash in March I feel little to nothing of the herbs for my sexual sides.

I am dosing with pine pollen daily and all herbs on tmo. I have ordered the prohormones and am hoping they will move me in the right direction.
It's all a matter of feeling out your own individual path here, ultimately. The TMO outline is where we all should start, but as the months wear on, we start to get a feel for what our individual bodies need, and how they are responding to certain things.
I didnt mean to imply that doing the Ultra Hard is a desperate move, but just that I dont want to decide to do it simply because I'm getting impatient at this relatively advanced stage of the program. In my particular case, it became very clear to me that my upswings were seriously dramatic, even the first ones. My body responds dramatically to the basic TMO protocol, sans prohormones, basically. From the best I can tell from reading accounts of users prohormone runs, my upswings hit like a really successful DHT prohormone cycle. I mean, within my first few upswings I was shot from the pit of decimation into the 80-90% range of sexual functioning, however briefly. My last few upswings had me in the 90 plus % range for 2 to 6 weeks, and that's only 6 months into the protocol. I'm now sitting pat at a baseline that's probably at roughly 90% on any given day... So, for me, the prohormones dont seem so necessary as of yet. If I had been on protocol for 3 months and barely got one minor upswing out of it, and/or had to weather a lot of turbulence to get it, I would have been hitting the Ultra Hard very soon...if you see what I mean.
In your case, keep at it for sure. This is still really early on. Cognitive and mood improvements are what you should be expecting at this early stage. That stuff got dramatically better before sexual stuff began to improve at all, so you're on the right track for sure.

[lastnoirking87]

I've come to conclude that things are simply leveling off somewhat, and I am therefore not being smacked in the face with these crazy upswings like I was in the beginning. This is actually a good thing, as its evidence that my baseline health has come such a long distance that my upswings no longer feel like I'm being brought back from the dead. My average day now would have been considered an upswing 2 or more months ago. I am getting a better grasp on how this is all changing as I move along the trail of progress here, so excuse me if I sounded too unsure or insecure in my previous post or 2. Things are indeed changing, but its definitely for the better. Since I'm no longer experiencing these dramatic downswings, the "ups" dont feel like such a crazy catapult. Instead of oscillating between a level 1 (total shit) and a level 10 (godlike) experience, I'm just fluctuating between level 5 (acceptable and not unenjoyable) and 10 now. I think I've made my point...
The other good news is that, amidst this decent/great fluctuation, I am indeed noticing small improvements as the weeks pass. Lets face it, even when you're violently swinging up and down in the early days, it's still pretty slow progress you're making on your baseline health, but now it's even more subtle. It seems like the body is sensing it's not in such danger as it was in the beginning, and is maybe therefore allocating resources to other things rather than trying to fix the hormonal mess day in and day out. That's sort of the impression I get anyway.

Some scattered details/noteworthy observations over the last couple of weeks...
The whole arousal process seems more normal. Flow of thought/fantasy seems to be returning to normal. Sometimes it IS entirely normal...this is happening more and more.
Orgasm pleasure intensity is definitely returning gradually. Ive had some orgasms that left me temporarily comatose, like they usually did prePFS.
Also, the pre-orgasm excitement is becoming more noticeable as well...this is something I almost didnt even notice was missing, but now that its returning, I kind of cant believe I failed to notice it. The "build up" sense, you could call it, is what I mean...
My pits are emitting a particularly strong odor when I'm aroused again
My appetite is usually enormous lately, which is something that used to wane when I was in a downswing or just not feeling great. Its generally always healthy now, and I'm finally putting on some actual bulk rather than just chiseling my muscles. Have taken up more aggressive ab workout routine to keep on top of the extra weight actually....really just a few pounds, but it looks like a lot more (in a good way)...
Libido is still not budging much. It's there when I get myself going, and can even be ravenous at that point, but it's like I can just go days without really thinking much about sex if I dont stop and decide to think about it/engage in it. So, I cant complain, because I'm functional and the libido comes when I call for it, but its not nagging me all day in the back of my mind like I'm used to...basically, if that were fixed, I'd have to put myself at 95-100% ...
I figure I'll get there before long. Will keep updating with any big news.

[Cdsnuts]

Does sorghum flour have an effect on DHT? I didn't know at all. I searched the internet, I found nothing. It would be interesting if I incorporated that into my diet then.


For creatine, it seems to me that it is not recommended during the protocol. To confirm.

Creatine is okay during recovery. Use HCL, not monohydrate. Amazon.com: ProMera Sports CON-CRET Patented Creatine HCl Capsules 750 mg, 72 Caps : Health Household (https://amzn.to/3RbZVr0)

[Mistyballoon]

Creatine is okay during recovery. Use HCL, not monohydrate. Amazon.com: ProMera Sports CON-CRET Patented Creatine HCl Capsules 750 mg, 72 Caps : Health Household (https://amzn.to/3RbZVr0)

Oh dang I just ordered the monohydrate one.. Should I use that or should I just dump that and get the HCL one?

[Cdsnuts]

Oh dang I just ordered the monohydrate one.. Should I use that or should I just dump that and get the HCL one?

Monohydrate is garbage and it'll make you hold too much water, not to mention there is a loading phaase. The ones I recommend are Hydrochloride and the molecules are small and you only need a few grams. Plus it's in capsule form which makes them convenient.

I'm gonna be around alot more.......sorry for that.

[lastnoirking87]

Well, gents, a corner has been turned. I wanted to wait a week or so to ensure this wasnt a one-time flicker sort of deal, but I am now routinely either staying at, or fluctuating between 100% and 90%. Previous to this, I was fluctuating between 80% and 90-95%, to put this progress into perspective.
While I'm not necessarily implying a direct causation, I made an effort to gain more weight in the ast few weeks, and the two major parts of that were increasing my carb back loads a good bit and cutting down on my non-HIIT cardio. I suddenly piled on 8 lbs in about a month after making these adjustments, and it appears to be mostly.muscle.
No idea if those changes may have possibly caused a rise in estrogen, which I may have needed, being a Saw Palmetto case (SP guys are said to oftentimes have low E), but I suppose it's possible. The rise in libido seems to maybe be consistent with that possibility as well.
Make what you will of that, but what is certain is that serious progress has been made in boosting my baseline status more towards normalcy.
Keep in mind, when I said above that I am routinely feeling 100%, that's in the sexual department. Every other category, due to the effects of diligent adherence to the TMO protocol for 8 months now, is well beyond my old 100%.
I am expecting it to be some time before I stick at 100% on the sexual front, but I just had to share this bit of progress in my log. It is quite clear to me that the healing finish line is within sight at this point, even if some more ups and downs await me.
I am incredibly moved by the fact that the 1 year anniversary of my crash (september 11th) was spent feeling 100% sexually and 100+% everywhere else.
I also wanted to add here that, shortly before I began moving upwards to these heights, I weathered about a week-long downswing that was the worst I've had in probably 5 months. While the duration was pretty short, the depth of the plunge was so great that I experienced what I've seen CD refer to as "the big doubt," where, somewhere about half way or further down the line of your healing journey, you fall so far towards the starting point that you feel it's all been for nothing. I fell there, and it was dark. I was revisiting some of the old though patterns from early on in my journey, and was really forced to see how incredibly far I had come up to that point. I just wanted to stress to those that need to hear it that big plunges usually foretell big progress around the corner. Dont fall off your horse during those times.
I'll keep posted with further progress...in the meantime, thanks again to you, CD, and godspeed to everyone.

[isseo]

I'm happy for you. Do you feel that prohormones have helped you sexually? I had seen a good improvement without prohormones and there, I don't know why, I feel like I'm back to square one. I hope it's just a bad slowdown and it comes back.

[xxaleksi]

Great job man, happy for you!

[Outlaw]

You're a tank man, happy for you!! We're following behind

[lastnoirking87]

I'm happy for you. Do you feel that prohormones have helped you sexually? I had seen a good improvement without prohormones and there, I don't know why, I feel like I'm back to square one. I hope it's just a bad slowdown and it comes back.

Hey there...I never actually used my two bottles of Ultra Hard yet, and at this point, likely won't until possibly well after I am total recovered. I've explained this in depth in an earlier post here in my log, but within a month of beginning the protocol I was experiencing such dramatic and consistent upswings (interspersed, of course, with downswings) that I just never felt the need to use the ultra Hard.
Like I said, I have repeatedly noticed the correlation between bad downswings and great upswings following closely behind, so my advice is simply to stick it out and remain vigilant. The prohormones likely just laid the groundwork for a big down/up movement.

[lastnoirking87]

This update is pretty overdue, but to be honest I have been enjoying near-normalcy and just really giving my mind a break from PFS concerns.
CD estimated in a post here on my thread back in late April/early May that I would be looking at about 6 months to regain nearly-healed baseline health, and I'll be damned if he wasnt right on the mark. While it was setting in throughout september and October (following my "Big Doubt" downswing in July/August), by late October/early November I could really feel that some permanent shifts were taking place. Erection quality and overall functioning seems to have stopped doing its violent pendulum swinging, and libido fluctuates from anywhere between 90-100%. I'll have these week long bouts of 100% and then a week or 2 of 90% or so...so, I guess I'm figuring that will level off at some point in the near future.
Energy and mood have been anywhere from pre-PFS to Upswing-level these last 2.5 months as well, so nothing but good news there.
Really nothing but good news over all here, and I'm just feeling like I'm doing shit I love.to do now, having gotten totally enraptured in bodybuilding as a hobby in and of itself, and the dietary stuff is a total non-issue at this point, as I've literally forgotten what normal diets are like/have no interest in anything other than amping up my workout and hormonal performance via diet.
The long in the short of it is, the protocol is just my life now. I look forward to all of its pieces and parts, including taking ice cold showers in winter prior to going to sleep.
Only thing sort of bugging me these last couple weeks is that I seem to have overworked my rotator cuffs and have thus been forced to go light on my workouts. That really irks me, as I so love to outdo myself each workout, but I've been taking it easier. This shit is taking a while to heal though. Hoping it will wrap up within the next couple weeks at most, because I cant take this pussyfooting around chest/arms/back workouts much longer. Still going crazy on leg day though, and we know leg day is great for hormones, given the huge size of leg muscles.
In summary, I'm still waiting for my libido to level off at a constant 100%, but most everything else seems to be either firmly back to normal or oscillating between roughly 90-100%, with no real downswing or even significant dips to speak of in about 3 months.
I believe I am in the home stretch fellas....

[Mjw1999]

Great post and well done. It’s so nice to have some positivity back on the forum. Let’s keep it going!

[GoldenSun]

Makes me happy to hear man. Like the post above me said, I'm glad we are returning to a positive attitude on this forum once again!

[lastnoirking87]

Great post and well done. It’s so nice to have some positivity back on the forum. Let’s keep it going!

Thanks man

[lastnoirking87]

Makes me happy to hear man. Like the post above me said, I'm glad we are returning to a positive attitude on this forum once again!
Thanks...and yeah, not sure what the hell happened with this place while I was gone, but glad it's been cleaned up. People who might be dropping in to see if they want to undertake this protocol really shouldn't be exposed to that kind of lunacy from people who arent even doing the work.

[Kurse]

This thread was a beautiful read for me and gave me more knowledge and inspiration to follow through with this at 100% effort :)

I am a new case so I am still in the early dark days but the most important thing I have learned is to stay positive and it will be over before you know it.

[The whit wagon]

This thread was a beautiful read for me and gave me more knowledge and inspiration to follow through with this at 100% effort :)

I am a new case so I am still in the early dark days but the most important thing I have learned is to stay positive and it will be over before you know it.

Just keep at it man, trust the process. Once a few things start improving and the ball gets rolling you'll have all the momentum with you.

[lastnoirking87]

Hello again fellas ..I'm kinda just writing to put an entry in here since it's been so long since my last update. The update is, everything is still basically the same as before. That is, in this context, a great thing. That means yet another chunk of months has elapsed with no crashes, no real downswings, and some mild progress. I've had a few 1-3 day "dips" here and there, but even that is becoming pretty rare. I sort of has this long, slow landing following the last dramatic upswing, which lasted about 3-3.5 months, and am back at the new baseline, which is ever so much closer to "normal" in the sexual category but, like I've said before, better than my previous normal in so many other facets, like strength, energy, stamina, mental perspective, mood, etc.
I am still getting these stretches of days where I am, by all appearances, completely normal sexually (or at least so close that I can't distinguish), so I remain hopeful that this will eventually stick. Hell, I occasionally have flashes of better-than-normal sexual functioning.
I feel like I've almost completed my Hero's Journey. I am a couple weeks past the 1 year mark of starting the protocol 100%, and it is routine normalcy for family and friends to come to me for health and exercise advice now. Strange but true. I got this far in this relatively short span of time without ever even opening my Ultra Hard. Who knows, I might be long past finished with all this if I had cycled the PHs, but it didnt feel necessary then, and it certainly doesn't now. Maybe I was enjoying destroying my old self too much. I know I have learned to enjoy that over the last year.
Anyway, probably not going to be much in the way of updates from here until the true end, but I will absolutely come back to notify the forum of my official recovery when the time comes....

[DirtyLox]

That's awesome to hear you are steadily getting better. Happy that you are at the comfortable stage in your recovery sexually, physically and mentally. Keep it up tho, we will get to 200%

[lastnoirking87]

Back for another update after a long hiatus. It doesn't seem like it's really been 8.5 months since I last posted, but I've also noticed my perception of time has been very strange since the start of PFS. I get so caught up in my day to day protocol quota that I totally lose track of an entire week at times.
For the most part, I've stuck to the same program that brought me success since the beginning. Only changes have been the occasional workout schedule shift and the introduction of Bulbine Natalensis (Barlowes brand) to my herb rotation.
On the side of symptoms and healing progress, that continues to move forward as well. I can't say I have had many bad downswings since my last post, but there was one mild one that lasted a couple of weeks back in July.
Other than that one, from which I bounced back with an insanely strong upswing, I'm still just getting these mini downswings (dips, as I call them) here and there, lasting for maybe a few days at worst. Aside from the negatives, I've had a series of long upswings this year, some kind of seemingly building on one another, only interrupted by a short dip of a few days or so before taking off again. It's a little difficult to precisely explain, but the long in the short of it is that they seem to be getting much longer, and stronger, and I can almost see how I will eventually take off on an upswing that basically just keeps going (i.e., complete recovery will be attained)
Hair fall has picked up pace more and more, and it is almost back to its pre-PFS rate, but not entirely. Ive also noticed that my body odor waxes and wanes in direct relation to my hormonal health, for whatever that's worth.
I mentioned the bulbine natalensis herb earlier, and just want to say that I personally am in love with this one. I only take one capsule on that day, as recommended, and I think 9 out of 10 times so far I have had an extremely positive reaction. One of those times I just didn't feel anything, as occasionally happens with many of the herbs.
One last little story I'll relay to you regards creatine. I finally decided to start creatine abut a week ago, and ordered Naked brand. I dosed at 5 grams for about 6 days, and began to feel pretty bad a few days in. I still don't know, and will probably never know, if this was directly caused by the creatine, but I sort of flipped out over the possibility of having fucked myself, and in a fit of rage, grabbed the 2 lb container and ran outside and dumped it all out. That was earlier today. Im.not sure how I feel about that choice of action now, but suffice it to say I will likely be waiting until full recovery before I revisit the creatine situation 😀

[Zerolibido]

Good luck you luckybbastard

I was mild pfs for years and ducked it up

Should have asked Dr advice about the qorkplace.cunts here.in 2019

[lastnoirking87]

I left an update on my thread above

[Zerolibido]

Good forvyou

[Zerolibido]

Great

- - - Updated - - -

Unless you're an orange bastard

[MungYarlon]

Back for another update after a long hiatus. It doesn't seem like it's really been 8.5 months since I last posted, but I've also noticed my perception of time has been very strange since the start of PFS. I get so caught up in my day to day protocol quota that I totally lose track of an entire week at times.
For the most part, I've stuck to the same program that brought me success since the beginning. Only changes have been the occasional workout schedule shift and the introduction of Bulbine Natalensis (Barlowes brand) to my herb rotation.
On the side of symptoms and healing progress, that continues to move forward as well. I can't say I have had many bad downswings since my last post, but there was one mild one that lasted a couple of weeks back in July.
Other than that one, from which I bounced back with an insanely strong upswing, I'm still just getting these mini downswings (dips, as I call them) here and there, lasting for maybe a few days at worst. Aside from the negatives, I've had a series of long upswings this year, some kind of seemingly building on one another, only interrupted by a short dip of a few days or so before taking off again. It's a little difficult to precisely explain, but the long in the short of it is that they seem to be getting much longer, and stronger, and I can almost see how I will eventually take off on an upswing that basically just keeps going (i.e., complete recovery will be attained)
Hair fall has picked up pace more and more, and it is almost back to its pre-PFS rate, but not entirely. Ive also noticed that my body odor waxes and wanes in direct relation to my hormonal health, for whatever that's worth.
I mentioned the bulbine natalensis herb earlier, and just want to say that I personally am in love with this one. I only take one capsule on that day, as recommended, and I think 9 out of 10 times so far I have had an extremely positive reaction. One of those times I just didn't feel anything, as occasionally happens with many of the herbs.
One last little story I'll relay to you regards creatine. I finally decided to start creatine abut a week ago, and ordered Naked brand. I dosed at 5 grams for about 6 days, and began to feel pretty bad a few days in. I still don't know, and will probably never know, if this was directly caused by the creatine, but I sort of flipped out over the possibility of having fucked myself, and in a fit of rage, grabbed the 2 lb container and ran outside and dumped it all out. That was earlier today. Im.not sure how I feel about that choice of action now, but suffice it to say I will likely be waiting until full recovery before I revisit the creatine situation 😀

I'd avoid creatine for the time being. I have anecdotal evidence from some individuals who tried it and felt worse on it. Focus on the protocol for now, and add creatine once recovered (if you still want to...).

[lastnoirking87]

I'd avoid creatine for the time being. I have anecdotal evidence from some individuals who tried it and felt worse on it. Focus on the protocol for now, and add creatine once recovered (if you still want to...).

Hello there, and thanks for the input. I have come to the conclusion that the creatine absolutely did something to throw me off. My brain fog came back, and some sexu sides as well, which are again fluctuating.
Obviously a ridiculous decision to try anything outside what was working I guess, but in retrospect, I can't find much negative coverage of creatine on this site; only on the "other one."
Can you tell me what your take is on what you've read about creatine crashes? Do you think this going to be a major problem for me, or do people typically bounce back from it? I am trying to avoid doing much reading on it because I know how psychological stress can worsen everything...

[MungYarlon]

Hello there, and thanks for the input. I have come to the conclusion that the creatine absolutely did something to throw me off. My brain fog came back, and some sexu sides as well, which are again fluctuating.
Obviously a ridiculous decision to try anything outside what was working I guess, but in retrospect, I can't find much negative coverage of creatine on this site; only on the "other one."
Can you tell me what your take is on what you've read about creatine crashes? Do you think this going to be a major problem for me, or do people typically bounce back from it? I am trying to avoid doing much reading on it because I know how psychological stress can worsen everything...

All I remember reading is some medical student on reddit saying that he'd gotten brain fog from creatine (this was 3 years ago so cant remember his name). It went away after a few weeks though so I wouldn't worry.

Maybe do a week juice fast if you can, but I wouldn't worry too much.

[Zerolibido]

Creatine won't crash you if you're in a good place

Wish I'd cure Is it my baseline was so say me on zinc and vitamin d

Ducking spastic awor out me off I hate Worthing

[lastnoirking87]

All I remember reading is some medical student on reddit saying that he'd gotten brain fog from creatine (this was 3 years ago so cant remember his name). It went away after a few weeks though so I wouldn't worry.

Maybe do a week juice fast if you can, but I wouldn't worry too much.

Thanks again. Thats a reassuring bit of info. I'm intentionally not digging too deep into this, as I think it's likely going to prove to be a short downswing of sorts while my system re-stabilizes. Here I was thinking I was in a secure enough position to add in a single new thing with mostly good reviews even from PFSers (at least here on SS). I only found the negative stuff after the fact. I will admit that LetsGo did make mention of his knowledge of negative experiences from it. I thought I'd let myself have some fun with the bodybuilding aspect of the protocol.
Personally, I would advise all PFSers to stay away from creatine.
Looks like it's back to the bare bones for me. I've doubled down on breathing exercises, which seems to be helping a lot. Good lord, I really would like to avoid a fast right now as I'm so damn entrenched in the muscle building process 🫣 but it's probably good advice 👍

[MungYarlon]

Thanks again. Thats a reassuring bit of info. I'm intentionally not digging too deep into this, as I think it's likely going to prove to be a short downswing of sorts while my system re-stabilizes. Here I was thinking I was in a secure enough position to add in a single new thing with mostly good reviews even from PFSers (at least here on SS). I only found the negative stuff after the fact. I will admit that LetsGo did make mention of his knowledge of negative experiences from it. I thought I'd let myself have some fun with the bodybuilding aspect of the protocol.
Personally, I would advise all PFSers to stay away from creatine.
Looks like it's back to the bare bones for me. I've doubled down on breathing exercises, which seems to be helping a lot. Good lord, I really would like to avoid a fast right now as I'm so damn entrenched in the muscle building process 🫣 but it's probably good advice 👍

You'll be fine. If you want to build more muscle consider the prohormones, they have the added benefit of increasing 5-ar activity which will boost DHT and GABA.

I know CD advocated use of creatine but I find its hit or miss with a lot of people, so I never took the risk with it. fwiw I'm thinking about running a pro-hormone cycle in the next few weeks. Never really ran one during my recovery so want to see how I feel on them.

[lastnoirking87]

You'll be fine. If you want to build more muscle consider the prohormones, they have the added benefit of increasing 5-ar activity which will boost DHT and GABA.

I know CD advocated use of creatine but I find its hit or miss with a lot of people, so I never took the risk with it. fwiw I'm thinking about running a pro-hormone cycle in the next few weeks. Never really ran one during my recovery so want to see how I feel on them.

Yeah, I actually still have my ultrahard bottles I bought at the beginning of everything. They expire in November I think, but I've rely just not felt the need at all for anything other than the bare bones protocol on tmo.com.I seem to be a hyper responder to herbs🌿 ive had consistently stronger and stronger upswings, and improvement after every one for the last 1.5 years, so I figure, why mess with a good thing?
my decision to incorporate creatine was just a desire to have some fun with body comp.
Having said all that, I still haven't entirely ruled out PHs. I do want to get my estrogen checked before I do them however, and at this point I really must recover my baseline health from before the creatine debacle before I consider doing ANYTHING out of my ordinary. Secondly, I think I need a better understanding of how we are supposed to modulate use of ultrahard and alpha four if needed. I need a clearer picture of what symptoms necessitate use of one or the other, and I honestly haven't gotten a clear understanding of that in all of my reading on here 🤷‍♂️
Please keep us posted on how your PH run goes. I know it seems like Noone uses the forum, but when I go to specific user profiles I notice people are indeed "active," i.e., likely just lurking around like I do for months sometimes.

[MungYarlon]

Yeah, I actually still have my ultrahard bottles I bought at the beginning of everything. They expire in November I think, but I've rely just not felt the need at all for anything other than the bare bones protocol on tmo.com.I seem to be a hyper responder to herbs🌿 ive had consistently stronger and stronger upswings, and improvement after every one for the last 1.5 years, so I figure, why mess with a good thing?
my decision to incorporate creatine was just a desire to have some fun with body comp.
Having said all that, I still haven't entirely ruled out PHs. I do want to get my estrogen checked before I do them however, and at this point I really must recover my baseline health from before the creatine debacle before I consider doing ANYTHING out of my ordinary. Secondly, I think I need a better understanding of how we are supposed to modulate use of ultrahard and alpha four if needed. I need a clearer picture of what symptoms necessitate use of one or the other, and I honestly haven't gotten a clear understanding of that in all of my reading on here 🤷‍♂️
Please keep us posted on how your PH run goes. I know it seems like Noone uses the forum, but when I go to specific user profiles I notice people are indeed "active," i.e., likely just lurking around like I do for months sometimes.

Oh I'll definitely be posting more often now. Going to be starting a legal job in Autumn (my first real job), so I'm thinking with that I'm going to go back onto the full protocol, and try to optimise in all walks of life: health, career, relationships etc.

Really feel that I can use this as the starting point to doing some great things in the future, and for that I need to be in the very best shape possible, physically and mentally.

[5alphavictim]

I'm not Paddy

[LetsGo]

Yeah, I actually still have my ultrahard bottles I bought at the beginning of everything. They expire in November I think, but I've rely just not felt the need at all for anything other than the bare bones protocol on tmo.com.I seem to be a hyper responder to herbs🌿 ive had consistently stronger and stronger upswings, and improvement after every one for the last 1.5 years, so I figure, why mess with a good thing?
my decision to incorporate creatine was just a desire to have some fun with body comp.
Having said all that, I still haven't entirely ruled out PHs. I do want to get my estrogen checked before I do them however, and at this point I really must recover my baseline health from before the creatine debacle before I consider doing ANYTHING out of my ordinary. Secondly, I think I need a better understanding of how we are supposed to modulate use of ultrahard and alpha four if needed. I need a clearer picture of what symptoms necessitate use of one or the other, and I honestly haven't gotten a clear understanding of that in all of my reading on here 🤷‍♂️
Please keep us posted on how your PH run goes. I know it seems like Noone uses the forum, but when I go to specific user profiles I notice people are indeed "active," i.e., likely just lurking around like I do for months sometimes.

What I noticed from the PHs was that UltraHard gave me terrible insomnia, but Super R Andro doesn’t. It seems like the dose I was taking crushed my E and it would take awhile to bounce back, so I would stick with lower doses for the first cycle, if/when you decide to do it.

[Zerolibido]

If you can't getta fuck IN hard on to her
You probably have

Post finasterude syndrome

[lastnoirking87]

What I noticed from the PHs was that UltraHard gave me terrible insomnia, but Super R Andro doesn’t. It seems like the dose I was taking crushed my E and it would take awhile to bounce back, so I would stick with lower doses for the first cycle, if/when you decide to do it.

Super r andro, is that the one that was real popular a few years back which is no longer available?
Secondly, hVe you any experience stacking UH with alpha four to counteract estrogen crushing? It's always this point about estrogen crushing that gets to me when I start going down the PH rabbit hole, and I just go back to "I'm doing great, why mess with it?"
I'm still curious about it though, because it's no been ruled out in my mind.

[lastnoirking87]

Oh I'll definitely be posting more often now. Going to be starting a legal job in Autumn (my first real job), so I'm thinking with that I'm going to go back onto the full protocol, and try to optimise in all walks of life: health, career, relationships etc.

Really feel that I can use this as the starting point to doing some great things in the future, and for that I need to be in the very best shape possible, physically and mentally.
Congrats on your professional success. Your trials with beating PFS is like an almost mythical-proportion wellspring of experience that can be used to guide you to ever greater heights in this life. Sometimes I am totally speechless when I think about the incomparable lessons and progress in every facet of my life that have already been gained over the last 1.5 years. It is my greatest ambition at the moment to get to precisely where you are, at the far side of this, with its corpse lying behind you, to unlock further levels of self knowledge and mastery by continuing with this lifestyle thereafter.

[MileyCrabz]

Super r andro, is that the one that was real popular a few years back which is no longer available?
Secondly, hVe you any experience stacking UH with alpha four to counteract estrogen crushing? It's always this point about estrogen crushing that gets to me when I start going down the PH rabbit hole, and I just go back to "I'm doing great, why mess with it?"
I'm still curious about it though, because it's no been ruled out in my mind.

IML Super R Andro Rx capsules were very popular on this forum years back. Ironmag Labs discontinued the capsules and have since made the formula Transdermal: IML Super R-Andro Cream which is still available.

Unfortunately Iconic Formulations Alpha Four has been discontinued for about a year now. Rob(Owner of IF as well as this forum) told me that it was due to licensing patents that another company held for the active(4andro). Alpha4 is sold out now at all 3rd party sellers that I’ve seen. I was lucky that Rob had some Alpha Gainz 4-Andro stashed away that I was able to pick up, but he told me it was the last of it a few months ago.

You can still get 4-Andro from a few other companies. Ironmag Labs has Super 4-Andro Cream, I’ve heard their products are legit, but I’ve never tried myself so can’t fully vouch.

4-Andro converts to testosterone which can aromatize into Estrogen. Unlike Epiandrosterone and Androsterone which are the actives in UltraHard and only covert to DHT. Hence using them together helps to not crush your estrogen, but then you have to be careful your Estrogen doesn’t raise to high(I know this from experience unfortunately haha). Would recommend a blood test before hand to see where your levels are at.

Sorry to crash your thread dude. I’ve been dying to talk about something fun on here for once lol. If you guys have any PH questions I’d be happy to do my best to answer. Or if you want more reading on PH’s besides here, than I recommend Anabolic Minds forum.

[MungYarlon]

IML Super R Andro Rx capsules were very popular on this forum years back. Ironmag Labs discontinued the capsules and have since made the formula Transdermal: IML Super R-Andro Cream which is still available.

Unfortunately Iconic Formulations Alpha Four has been discontinued for about a year now. Rob(Owner of IF as well as this forum) told me that it was due to licensing patents that another company held for the active(4andro). Alpha4 is sold out now at all 3rd party sellers that I’ve seen. I was lucky that Rob had some Alpha Gainz 4-Andro stashed away that I was able to pick up, but he told me it was the last of it a few months ago.

You can still get 4-Andro from a few other companies. Ironmag Labs has Super 4-Andro Cream, I’ve heard their products are legit, but I’ve never tried myself so can’t fully vouch.

4-Andro converts to testosterone which can aromatize into Estrogen. Unlike Epiandrosterone and Androsterone which are the actives in UltraHard and only covert to DHT. Hence using them together helps to not crush your estrogen, but then you have to be careful your Estrogen doesn’t raise to high(I know this from experience unfortunately haha). Would recommend a blood test before hand to see where your levels are at.

Sorry to crash your thread dude. I’ve been dying to talk about something fun on here for once lol. If you guys have any PH questions I’d be happy to do my best to answer. Or if you want more reading on PH’s besides here, than I recommend Anabolic Minds forum.

I'll shop around for some 4-andro when I start my cycle. I'm going to restart the protocol completely though so that I can get the best effects. Will aim for January or February time.

[MileyCrabz]

I'll shop around for some 4-andro when I start my cycle. I'm going to restart the protocol completely though so that I can get the best effects. Will aim for January or February time.

Smart move restarting protocol pre cycle. 4-Andro is great if you’re looking to put some size on, gains are more wet. Does make for a bigger chance of sides/suppression though, but still fairly safe for most especially when compared to actual AAS. Stacks great with an Androsterone product like Ultrahard or Super R-Andro for a nice lean bulk.

Rob also told me they are working on a new product and trying to possibly get around the patents on 4-Andro. Might have something new out for when you’re looking to cycle. Here's hoping!

[Zerolibido]

Interesting you tell him to get blood tests as Mr nuts where. Advised that anywhere

[lastnoirking87]

IML Super R Andro Rx capsules were very popular on this forum years back. Ironmag Labs discontinued the capsules and have since made the formula Transdermal: IML Super R-Andro Cream which is still available.

Unfortunately Iconic Formulations Alpha Four has been discontinued for about a year now. Rob(Owner of IF as well as this forum) told me that it was due to licensing patents that another company held for the active(4andro). Alpha4 is sold out now at all 3rd party sellers that I’ve seen. I was lucky that Rob had some Alpha Gainz 4-Andro stashed away that I was able to pick up, but he told me it was the last of it a few months ago.

You can still get 4-Andro from a few other companies. Ironmag Labs has Super 4-Andro Cream, I’ve heard their products are legit, but I’ve never tried myself so can’t fully vouch.

4-Andro converts to testosterone which can aromatize into Estrogen. Unlike Epiandrosterone and Androsterone which are the actives in UltraHard and only covert to DHT. Hence using them together helps to not crush your estrogen, but then you have to be careful your Estrogen doesn’t raise to high(I know this from experience unfortunately haha). Would recommend a blood test before hand to see where your levels are at.

Sorry to crash your thread dude. I’ve been dying to talk about something fun on here for once lol. If you guys have any PH questions I’d be happy to do my best to answer. Or if you want more reading on PH’s besides here, than I recommend Anabolic Minds forum.

No need to apologize. I appreciate all the up to date info about the PHs. I haven't looked into any of them in 1.5 years, so didn't even realize alpha four was done. Damn this landscape changes a lot! Anyway, yes, a blood test to see where my estrogen is first would be necessary for me to undertake an UH cycle with peace of mind. If it turned out I was low to begin with, then I wouldn't be able to proceed 🤷‍♂️ my anxiety would just spoil whatever benefit I might get.
I guess my total confidence and comfort with the herbs, and resulting total lack of anxiety surrounding their mechanisms of action and/or effects, is partly responsible for my progress thus far.

[lastnoirking87]

No need to apologize. I appreciate all the up to date info about the PHs. I haven't looked into any of them in 1.5 years, so didn't even realize alpha four was done. Damn this landscape changes a lot! Anyway, yes, a blood test to see where my estrogen is first would be necessary for me to undertake an UH cycle with peace of mind. If it turned out I was low to begin with, then I wouldn't be able to proceed 🤷‍♂️ my anxiety would just spoil whatever benefit I might get.
I guess my total confidence and comfort with the herbs, and resulting total lack of anxiety surrounding their mechanisms of action and/or effects, is partly responsible for my progress thus far.
Also, for some context, I hold very little body fat and have to eat like a psycho to put on weight while lifting and doing the sprints as per the tmo protocol. Even then, if I let my foot off the pedal for a few days with the eating, I can see my body stating to slim down. Additionally, I have noticed oftentimes at the peak of my upswings, when I figure my test is very high, that I'll have a day or two where I can get emotional fairly easily. I suspect this is from my high test being aromatized, which is fine and dandy, but the thing is that I don't often feel like this at all. It is a VERY unusual feeling for me to experience that sort of emotionality. The long in the short of it is, if my E isn't average, I feel it must be pretty low on any given day.

[Zerolibido]

Jew thinking should ducking kill myself?

[LetsGo]

Jew thinking should ducking kill myself?

I am Catholic, not Jewish, and I don’t know very much about ducks.

[Zerolibido]

You've shot up in my estimations.

[MungYarlon]

Also, for some context, I hold very little body fat and have to eat like a psycho to put on weight while lifting and doing the sprints as per the tmo protocol. Even then, if I let my foot off the pedal for a few days with the eating, I can see my body stating to slim down. Additionally, I have noticed oftentimes at the peak of my upswings, when I figure my test is very high, that I'll have a day or two where I can get emotional fairly easily. I suspect this is from my high test being aromatized, which is fine and dandy, but the thing is that I don't often feel like this at all. It is a VERY unusual feeling for me to experience that sort of emotionality. The long in the short of it is, if my E isn't average, I feel it must be pretty low on any given day.

People with lower body fat have a lot less estrogen. Low E and high E symptoms are very similar for many people, but it's probably a good sign that you feel these emotions on some days- means the body is balancing and readjusting.

[lastnoirking87]

Update on creatine debacle: I am completely recovered from it as of the last few days. Wanted to wait a few days before declaring this officially. Reinvigorated my faith and dedication to the breathing exercises, which I'm now sometimes doing for upwards of an hour.

[MileyCrabz]

That’s great to hear man. Love breathing exercises with some meditation to help calm the mind. Sounds like you're doing really good, PFS will be a distant memory in no time!

[Zerolibido]

Fuck m.jealous im.Ducked

In was better than all.of.you grudgingly 2021

[MungYarlon]

Update on creatine debacle: I am completely recovered from it as of the last few days. Wanted to wait a few days before declaring this officially. Reinvigorated my faith and dedication to the breathing exercises, which I'm now sometimes doing for upwards of an hour.

That's good to hear. I was pretty confident you would get better after a few days, creatine is just too hit or miss to take during recovery.
Even now I don't really plan on ever taking it, there are many better options out there.

[lastnoirking87]

That’s great to hear man. Love breathing exercises with some meditation to help calm the mind. Sounds like you're doing really good, PFS will be a distant memory in no time!
Thanks for the feedback. Fighting this can feel extremely lonely at times. I'm still feeling better...and I concur; it will be conquered soon enough👍

[lastnoirking87]

That's good to hear. I was pretty confident you would get better after a few days, creatine is just too hit or miss to take during recovery.
Even now I don't really plan on ever taking it, there are many better options out there.
You were correct, and good on you for doing your research before trying creatine. I wish I had done a little beforehand because, if I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have considered it either.....there's no time to play around with things that might upset our progress when we are fighting the good fight.

[Zerolibido]

I want to murder those filthy ducking orange bastrds I'm sitting fondest here
There is no way this won't end in Sunnyside

Fucking massive muscle ducking wastage all over face neck shoulders arse.legs

I wasn't even a mild case In was a RECOVERED case

Those filthy orange ducks in is guns were.legal here I would excite all them

My mum had to go into care and I am tucked for for where is the justice so everywhere is god?

Fucking dirty oranegbfucking cunts