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Sperwer
01-16-2013, 06:27 AM
Word is that in conjunction with his Oprah moment, Lance will be changing the name of his foundation from "Live Strong" to "Live Juiced" - not that there's anything wrong with that except the honesty of it.
:cool:

DJM
01-16-2013, 06:49 AM
the guy is truly a piece of shit
i dont care bout using PEDS to win, its the millions he spent on lawyers defending his innocence, suing countless media types, effectively destroying other people's lives in a defense of a lie.......only to finally come clean in a miserable attempt to save his failing company

upon his confession, it was reported dozens of counter lawsuits were filed against him.....he may see the 100million hes worth go pretty fast

Rodja
01-16-2013, 07:20 AM
the guy is truly a piece of shit
i dont care bout using PEDS to win, its the millions he spent on lawyers defending his innocence, suing countless media types, effectively destroying other people's lives in a defense of a lie.......only to finally come clean in a miserable attempt to save his failing company

upon his confession, it was reported dozens of counter lawsuits were filed against him.....he may see the 100million hes worth go pretty fast

The statute of limitations has passed on many of them, but I could care fucking less. Sports have been elevated to far too lofty of a position in society and, occasionally, shit like this will happen. AAS, EPO, etc. didn't make him a champion, especially in that sport.

h2s
01-16-2013, 07:31 AM
The statute of limitations has passed on many of them, but I could care fucking less. Sports have been elevated to far too lofty of a position in society and, occasionally, shit like this will happen. AAS, EPO, etc. didn't make him a champion, especially in that sport.

As much as I think he is a piece of shit... I agree with this. Someone send me your address, ill send you whatever aas you want and an unlimited supply of EPO. The catch is you have to win the tour.

I don't buy for a second that his usage was rare, just as I don't think there is a single sport that isn't filled with PED usage at the pro level...well except bodybuilding, haha.

DJM
01-16-2013, 08:27 AM
oh i have no problem with the drug use, they all use and only he was winning, much like bonds in baseball

its the other shit, as opposed to being quiet he had his get anyone who talks about me tour

for the tour, id think anyone not using is stupid,cmon.........even look at this board, none of us are pros i believe, fuck alot of guys on here use gear when they look like they dont know where their gym is.......so hard to imagine highly paid highly endorsed world elite athletes are clean......the peds didnt get them there obviously, just used to aid somewhat, and its part of the game

espn 30 for 30, '9.79', not cause hes canadian, but great look inside of the most famous steroid bust, and what pretty much put the spotlight on it

Rodja
01-16-2013, 08:49 AM
oh i have no problem with the drug use, they all use and only he was winning, much like bonds in baseball

its the other shit, as opposed to being quiet he had his get anyone who talks about me tour

for the tour, id think anyone not using is stupid,cmon.........even look at this board, none of us are pros i believe, fuck alot of guys on here use gear when they look like they dont know where their gym is.......so hard to imagine highly paid highly endorsed world elite athletes are clean......the peds didnt get them there obviously, just used to aid somewhat, and its part of the game

espn 30 for 30, '9.79', not cause hes canadian, but great look inside of the most famous steroid bust, and what pretty much put the spotlight on it


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubYJvZmjXFE

Avl
01-16-2013, 11:20 AM
i have no issue with his use..my issue is how indignant he was when accused, sueing anyone ( and collecting money ) for liable if someone dared go against him, and all the other BS he pulled. he's a POS, his work with Livestrong not included.

the general public cracks me up- talking about this the other day with some office people, i told them ' look...he comes back from a cancer death bed, DOMINATES one of the dirtiest sports in the world for a decade and you all think he's clean? Cmon. You just want to beleve that good ' come back' story and believe he cant do any wrong just because of Livestrong..Guess what? Golden Boy was probably the dirtiest of the bunch..." and i went on and on to a nice rant..

longBallLima
01-16-2013, 11:41 AM
it all went to shit when athletes became the standard for morals, good behavior and honesty.

i cant give a shit about the fact that lance has weak morals. why did anyone expect him to be better than everyone who also lie, cheat, steal and do all this shit that everyone does?

its like when tiger was "busted" for boning other chicks and everyone acted like butthurt BFFs of his wife. "i cant believe he would do that, you deserve better than that girl!"

did you guys see the insane amount of butthurt over Bieber's drug and alcohol use? I have always expected this kid to OD before he was 30, but people apparently thought he was following a would-be jesus' steps.

AestheticOne
01-16-2013, 11:56 AM
LongBall i can't agree with you enough about it being un-realistic that we hold athletes to "christ-like" morals and expect them all to be saints just because they're in the public spot light, but time after time this has been proven not to be the case.

My opinion on the matter is everyone in the sports uses PED's at a pro level, however where lance went astray was i feel he got somewhat greedy and loud, and this came back to bite him in the ass.

I have no respect for him sueing and collecting money on people that were trying to expose him, thats just plain stealing no matter which way you cut it, however i wont discredit him for being the greatest cyclist of all time, i don't think anyone can take that away from him.

longBallLima
01-16-2013, 12:16 PM
LongBall i can't agree with you enough about it being un-realistic that we hold athletes to "christ-like" morals and expect them all to be saints just because they're in the public spot light, but time after time this has been proven not to be the case.

My opinion on the matter is everyone in the sports uses PED's at a pro level, however where lance went astray was i feel he got somewhat greedy and loud, and this came back to bite him in the ass.

I have no respect for him sueing and collecting money on people that were trying to expose him, thats just plain stealing no matter which way you cut it, however i wont discredit him for being the greatest cyclist of all time, i don't think anyone can take that away from him.

agreed, him ruining other people's lives and credibility was worse than any substance use.

and i believe everyone will take any athletic achievement away from him due to his use.

Sperwer
01-16-2013, 07:03 PM
The statute of limitations has passed on many of them, but I could care fucking less. Sports have been elevated to far too lofty of a position in society and, occasionally, shit like this will happen. AAS, EPO, etc. didn't make him a champion, especially in that sport.

The statute of limitations can be "tolled". i.e., extended or voided, in certain circumstances, e.g., "unclean hands" - fraudulent action that prevent actionable conduct from being discovered and/or litigated in a timely manner. I think Armstrong is in serious trouble.

I agree w/ the sentiment behind your observation regarding the banned substances not having made him a champion; but everything else about the guy is repugnant.

BBG
01-16-2013, 07:07 PM
I thought most of you guys were on Armstrong's side a few months ago... what changed?

xxiv
01-16-2013, 07:10 PM
I thought most of you guys were on Armstrong's side a few months ago... what changed?

Are we talking about the trumpet guy or the guy that invented the moon walk?

Eden
01-16-2013, 07:17 PM
What I like is that Cycling is no longer an olympic sport because of this. Really? Because if the Olympics banned sports based on drug usage there would be no Olympics.

Rodja
01-16-2013, 07:41 PM
The statute of limitations can be "tolled". i.e., extended or voided, in certain circumstances, e.g., "unclean hands" - fraudulent action that prevent actionable conduct from being discovered and/or litigated in a timely manner. I think Armstrong is in serious trouble.

I agree w/ the sentiment behind your observation regarding the banned substances not having made him a champion; but everything else about the guy is repugnant.

Fairly certain that this wouldn't have happened if his attorneys wouldn't have given him the ok that this was not the case.

Sperwer
01-16-2013, 08:21 PM
Fairly certain that this wouldn't have happened if his attorneys wouldn't have given him the ok that this was not the case.

Obviously, neither of us is sufficiently familiar with enough of the relevant facts to know, but in my experience lawyers only infrequently deal with clearcut cases that permit unqualified opinions. I suspect they have given him some sort of probability risk assessment. And bear in mind, armstrong clearly likes to take big risks in the pursuit of his various goals. His goal now seems to be at the very least to gat himself some sort of honest reputation; and he's rich enough that he may be prepared to have to pay up a substantial sum to settle cases that WILL be brought, no matter what his lawyers say, as the price of doing so - if he doesn't his attempt to rehabilitate his rep otherwise will at best remain in limbo for the (extended) half lives over which it will take the commotion of all the ensuing litigation to go away. Now that he is well outside his area of expertise, and isn't going to be able to control matters like the tinhorn tyrant he has been in the past, he may find himself in serious trouble. We'll see.

I see him pathetically prancing around as the self-proclaimed "king of sport" long after he has actually done anything deserving of attention - sort of like the erstwhile King of Pop.

Rodja
01-16-2013, 09:27 PM
Obviously, neither of us is sufficiently familiar with enough of the relevant facts to know, but in my experience lawyers only infrequently deal with clearcut cases that permit unqualified opinions. I suspect they have given him some sort of probability risk assessment. And bear in mind, armstrong clearly likes to take big risks in the pursuit of his various goals. His goal now seems to be at the very least to gat himself some sort of honest reputation; and he's rich enough that he may be prepared to have to pay up a substantial sum to settle cases that WILL be brought, no matter what his lawyers say, as the price of doing so - if he doesn't his attempt to rehabilitate his rep otherwise will at best remain in limbo for the (extended) half lives over which it will take the commotion of all the ensuing litigation to go away. Now that he is well outside his area of expertise, and isn't going to be able to control matters like the tinhorn tyrant he has been in the past, he may find himself in serious trouble. We'll see.

I see him pathetically prancing around as the self-proclaimed "king of sport" long after he has actually done anything deserving of attention - sort of like the erstwhile King of Pop.

How much experience do you have with attorney's with 6 figure retainer fees?

Sperwer
01-16-2013, 10:02 PM
Before I retired I was one.

My largest retainer, which was significantly less than the final bill, was in the low 7 figures. :)

And, no, i didn't do PI or otherwise get involved in the so-called "plaintiffs' bar" sort of cases.

h2s
01-17-2013, 07:18 AM
I thought most of you guys were on Armstrong's side a few months ago... what changed?

I was for a bit, because he was bullied for lack of a better term. He complied with everything they wanted and they kept pushing him. That said, his true colors came out a bit more than I think even he intended.

Avl
01-17-2013, 08:31 AM
I thought most of you guys were on Armstrong's side a few months ago... what changed?

ive never been on his side. ive always disliked him and always belived he was dirty.

i dont like usaine bolt either and i have no idea how he or his team mates are not getting nabbed. i do love watching them run though, lol

Macdon1588
01-17-2013, 08:53 AM
Of course I feel stupid now, but I was on his side at least partially because of his staunch defense of himself over the years. I spotted him the come back from cancer because high end treatment involves anabolic steroids. I figured he just got his doctors just doubled up the dose. However, at the end of the day, fuck it, it's cycling. It's a rich kid sport and only has one significant event a year. I feel bad because the Live Strong organization which does good will suffer because of his lies and his need to resolve his guilt. Be a man and take that shit to your grave. As for cycling governing bodies, those folks need a new rule: if the test don't catch the drug use, the title stands.

h2s
01-17-2013, 09:08 AM
ive never been on his side. ive always disliked him and always belived he was dirty.

i dont like usaine bolt either and i have no idea how he or his team mates are not getting nabbed. i do love watching them run though, lol

Why hate someone for being "Dirty"?

Do not take this as an attack on you, I just really dont understand the logic.

We all here use. We use for no real reason as most are not competitors, not athletes, etc...We just choose to.

In this scenario, these athletes are on a national level. They are up against others who use. Would you suddenly not use because you are pro...when the difference is fading out to nothing because you are not on the same playing field, or competing at the level everyone else is on?

All athletes use in some degree. You like watching them run, because they run well, and that is a combination of their dedication as well as their PED usage. Without the PEDs, sports become less intense.

Also, why are certain things "ok," and others "not." Is an athlete who uses Creatine, Caffeine, Agmatine, etc. etc. etc. to gain an edge not "using" a substance to "gain an athletic edge." Are steroids/EPO different just because they are more effective?

Rodja
01-17-2013, 09:22 AM
Why hate someone for being "Dirty"?

Do not take this as an attack on you, I just really dont understand the logic.

We all here use. We use for no real reason as most are not competitors, not athletes, etc...We just choose to.

In this scenario, these athletes are on a national level. They are up against others who use. Would you suddenly not use because you are pro...when the difference is fading out to nothing because you are not on the same playing field, or competing at the level everyone else is on?

All athletes use in some degree. You like watching them run, because they run well, and that is a combination of their dedication as well as their PED usage. Without the PEDs, sports become less intense.

Also, why are certain things "ok," and others "not." Is an athlete who uses Creatine, Caffeine, Agmatine, etc. etc. etc. to gain an edge not "using" a substance to "gain an athletic edge." Are steroids/EPO different just because they are more effective?

Or, to take it a step further, the rampant use of opiates (Toradol is under some heavy fire right now) and/or corticosteroids.

machdaddy
01-17-2013, 09:32 AM
If anyone knows how they test speak up. Do they just test the podium finishers or all who participate? I think the only difference in first to last place is the quality of the product(gear) used, beginning talent, effort. So, Lance either gave more effort, had more talent, or had better gear. DONE!

Do you think the coach of the Patriots would admit to cheating along with being a good coach? Or the NFL admit to babying certain teams to get a better payday matching those teams. The NBA has fined a coach $250,000 for not playing his star players when a big name team comes to town. Why, they(NBA) want a good show. All sports are rigged one way or another.

Scope75
01-17-2013, 10:01 AM
PEDs make sports fun to watch and without them sports wouldn't be the same.
Could you imagine football, baseball, and sprinting without PEDs??
Shit would be boring ass hell to watch.
Baseball had everyone watching when Mark and Sammy where knocking balls out of the park like nobodies busniness. Then the next time baseball took off was when the juice head Bonds killed that record.
Oh and don't for get about #53 Bill Romanowski...
Loved the way that guy played the game.

Avl
01-17-2013, 04:15 PM
HTS- i dont hate him for being dirty at all..if i did, id hate most pros in ANY sport. i dont like him, or his attitude once his suspected use became public.. its one thing to deny, but its another attacking and profitting from others for lying. i didnt phrase my original post well, posting from work.

Avl
01-17-2013, 04:20 PM
one thing i DONT agree with is them nabbing him after he retired- i figure if you beat the test while active, so be it. also no way they should be able to ' back test ' so to speak. for example, keeping samples for yrs, then testing with new technology yrs later to catch a user.

DJM
01-17-2013, 06:01 PM
^^^i 100% agree with this

pman42
01-21-2013, 11:24 PM
SOme good points have been made in this thread. as a sports-consuming society, I feel that we fairly demand PED. we wouldn't watch the olympics if the records got worse each year or only slightly better. we expect hockey and football players to go out there, take a huge beating, then come back the next night? month after month? c'mon. it's like dana white saying he was disappointed in overeem for using AAS. fuckin guy has created a monster, a sport which consumes men by the dozens. it's all they can do to stay ahead of injury and AAS would be practically mandatory, i would think, in MMA at a high level, if nothing else for the injury rehab

PNMike
01-25-2013, 06:31 PM
the only justice for lance armstrong is 24-36 months in federal prisons, like they would for anyone else that did this type of shit. And for Stu Scott of ESPN, who stands behind Livestrong 100%, i feel for you and the repetitive battle with cancer you keep beating. But justifying this is all okay, because Lance did something good with the money, well F*** you and that idea.

Listen, if doing bad things were washed good by performing a good deed, where would it stop. Would heroin trafficking be ok if you donated to a kids in africa the profits? Would genocide be ok, if the spoils of war were directed to increasing development of 3rd world nations?

The mentality that because he did something good with illegal gains is mind boggling to me...Lets tell wall street to go ahead and be corrupt, just give 50% of the profit to charity and we'll over look it...this world has to wake up and proven fraudsters, need to be treated like common everyday citizens...

nate3993
01-25-2013, 08:43 PM
jail? u crazy. here's how i see it. other athletes in his group have stated they were all on his regiment of epo, steroids, etc. so as far as I'm concerned, LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. like pro body building. they all use the same gear, eg, level playing field. he's obviously a better athlete. to quote samir, "take all the drugs out of bodybuilding, and the winners will remain the same."(aside from the various bullshit olympia wins, but you get the point.)