Knee Wraps

[Cobalt]

I've been looking into grabbing some knee wraps for my leg sessions. My right knee has been uncooperative when going down too far with squats. I've seen them used a few times, but I haven't heard much about them.

Any experience out there using them?

[Rodja]

Unless you're working up to 90%+, you don't need them. Strengthen the knee with unilateral work instead of looking for a wrap.

[Cobalt]

Unless you're working up to 90%+, you don't need them. Strengthen the knee with unilateral work instead of looking for a wrap.

But if I am working on the 90%+?
I'm going for flat out strength. When running lower weight, I don't have the problem. Its when I hit the high weight (400+ lbs) that it shows up.

[Rodja]

But if I am working on the 90%+?
I'm going for flat out strength. When running lower weight, I don't have the problem. Its when I hit the high weight (400+ lbs) that it shows up.

You're trying to be a PL'er now?

[BBG]

You're trying to be a PL'er now?

He wants knee wraps, not a lecture :o

[Cobalt]

Just asking Rodja, if they aren't for me then so be it. I was just looking for experience on their use.

My right wrist gave me similar issues, and a nice wrap fixed it.

[Rulk]

Just asking Rodja, if they aren't for me then so be it. I was just looking for experience on their use.

My right wrist gave me similar issues, and a nice wrap fixed it.

Maybe get a knee brace then. Never used wraps myself, stuff like that seems to cut off my circulation so I guess I wasn't using it right. My preference is just to get the body warm and then warm up the joints that are involved in the movement i'm about to do. Might not be the best for pursuing strength, but the joints feel better.

[Cobalt]

I actually have a brace, but it doesn't seem strong enough. Wraps tend to be a good 6 feet long, so I can weave around certain spots and apply more or less pressure where needed.

I've read that wraps can help limit the range of motion, or at least tighten up when you bend the knee. I think my issue is in limited ROM, because even after plenty of warming up, its no good. Left knee will be perfect, but the right knee just goes NOPE and bails.

[Rulk]

The bodybuilder in me would say, " Back off the weight and just go for the pump ", but if your trying to get stronger, that probably is not what you want to do. If it was me I would lower the weight, and get stronger and more effecient and stay there for a while, then try the weight you want again.

[burlyman30]

Left knee will be perfect, but the right knee just goes NOPE and bails.

What does,"bails" mean in this scenario? Buckles? Hurts?

[Cobalt]

What does,"bails" mean in this scenario? Buckles? Hurts?

If I go really slowly, there is a point where pain sets in. If I keep going just a little bit, the knee just loses all power.

The pain isn't bad, but it's there. It also isn't always there, some days I can squat the world, others I'm just a little girl.

[burlyman30]

If I go really slowly, there is a point where pain sets in. If I keep going just a little bit, the knee just loses all power.

The pain isn't bad, but it's there. It also isn't always there, some days I can squat the world, others I'm just a little girl.

Does this pain occur only under max loads? If you drop 30-50 lbs will the pain occur at the same position and will you lose all power?

[Rodja]

Just asking Rodja, if they aren't for me then so be it. I was just looking for experience on their use.

My right wrist gave me similar issues, and a nice wrap fixed it.

Here's the thing about knee wraps: unless you are already highly experienced in training at 90%+ for years, you don't need to jump to them. Knee wraps aren't quite gear, but they are in the same breath in that you first need the technical expertise before jumping to them. You cannot just wrap one knee as it will alter the tracking of your knees and properly using a wrap is an art.

Elite FTS (http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&cid=481&pid=3014)

You can't compare a wrist to a knee as they're not only different types of joints, but also have different musculature and strength capacities.

[burlyman30]

You cannot just wrap one knee as it will alter the tracking of your knees and properly using a wrap is an art.

You can't compare a wrist to a knee as they're not only different types of joints, but also have different musculature and strength capacities.

Truth. I only wrapped for a short period, 20 some years ago. I don't remember exactly how to do it anymore and wouldn't do it again until I relearned the wrapping technique. You can totally change the way your knees track, which is pretty amazing to me. I remember that happening and having to rewrap in order to "get it right".

[Cobalt]

This info is exactly what I'm looking for.

I wasn't planning on wrapping just one knee, I would have done both.

Since wraps are now out of the question, any suggestions on something for support for just one knee then?

[Cobalt]

Does this pain occur only under max loads? If you drop 30-50 lbs will the pain occur at the same position and will you lose all power?

Its worse at higher loads. When I drop the weight, the pain will still show, but I tend to get a little more ROM before it finally gives out.

For reference, 180 degrees mean upright, and 90 degree means I'm down near a "sitting" position. Zero degrees would just be impossible, legs broken.
For example:
45 lbs (bar for warm up) - mild discomfort when close to 90 degree knee bend, can easily do many reps, even past 90 degrees.
135 lbs (bar& 2 plates) - again, mild discomfort close to 90 degrees, a dozen reps is still nothing, 90 degree bend possible.
225 lbs (bar& 4 plates) - pain starting to show sooner, near 100-110 degree knee bend. 90 degree bend possible, but difficult.
315 lbs (bar& 6 plates) - pain still only showing at the 110 degree point, 90 degree bend nearly impossible, maybe 2 reps before knee gives out.
405 lbs (bar& 8 plates) - pain at 110-115 degree point, almost instant failure when pain starts.

Like I said, it isn't EVERY time. I've done 405 to 90 degrees and back for 3 reps with no issues, but then a couple weeks ago, 225 was failing at 90 degrees on the first rep. I just hate prepping for leg day and not being able to do it.

[xxiv]

Perhaps just retaining heat at the joint with a little compression is what you need. I would try something like these. The matching head band is a sweet addition.

449

Take pics and post your results.

Seriously though, I had to switch to lifting with insulated pants because my garage is cold and my legs were cramping at higher reps. Warming up with jumping rope and jumping between sets helped as well.

[Rodja]

The link I put is to some knee sleeves. My main question is what do you do for your warm-up and if you also do regular MFR?

[burlyman30]

Good info on ROM pain, Cobalt. So now can you be more specific on the location in the joint where the pain stems from? Front of patella? To either side of it? Deeper in the joint? Sharp pain? Dull pain? Or does it go from dull to sharp with the increased ROM?

[Scope75]

Perhaps just retaining heat at the joint with a little compression is what you need. I would try something like these. The matching head band is a sweet addition.

449

Take pics and post your results.

Seriously though, I had to switch to lifting with insulated pants because my garage is cold and my legs were cramping at higher reps. Warming up with jumping rope and jumping between sets helped as well.

I'll second the insulated pants!!
When I started wearing them leg work seemed to get easier and kept the blood flowing better.

[Cobalt]

The link I put is to some knee sleeves. My main question is what do you do for your warm-up and if you also do regular MFR?
I'm not good with abbreviations, what is MFR?

Warm up is usually started by stretching out the hamstrings, followed by hip adductors then quads. Ten minutes on a treadmill, slight incline at just below a jogging pace. That is followed by using a leg extension machine with low weight (~80 lbs) at 3 sets by 20 reps. I'll then do some plain squats (no weight, just the movement), somewhere around 50 squats, followed by 50 more with the bar (45 lbs).
If I get through that with no knee pain, the rest of the workout is fantastic. Sometimes, the pain will show up and then go away during the warm up, in which case the workout is usually fine. If the pain is there once I'm done with the last set of squats, I'm screwed.


Good info on ROM pain, Cobalt. So now can you be more specific on the location in the joint where the pain stems from? Front of patella? To either side of it? Deeper in the joint? Sharp pain? Dull pain? Or does it go from dull to sharp with the increased ROM?

I can't recreate the pain right now (go figure, I'm not doing legs today either), but best I can describe it is under the patella, and the patella ligament itself.
The pain isn't sharp, it's more of a dull pain, but very sudden and powerful. Imaging doing a squat, and some prick comes along and kicks you right under the knee cap.

- - - Updated - - -


Perhaps just retaining heat at the joint with a little compression is what you need. I would try something like these. The matching head band is a sweet addition.

449

Take pics and post your results.

Seriously though, I had to switch to lifting with insulated pants because my garage is cold and my legs were cramping at higher reps. Warming up with jumping rope and jumping between sets helped as well.

Only if I can get the pants in blue, I don't do pink.

I don't think it is a temperature issue, it'll happen if it's 20 degrees out in winter, or 100 degrees in the summer.

[Rodja]

I'm not good with abbreviations, what is MFR?

Warm up is usually started by stretching out the hamstrings, followed by hip adductors then quads. Ten minutes on a treadmill, slight incline at just below a jogging pace. That is followed by using a leg extension machine with low weight (~80 lbs) at 3 sets by 20 reps. I'll then do some plain squats (no weight, just the movement), somewhere around 50 squats, followed by 50 more with the bar (45 lbs).
If I get through that with no knee pain, the rest of the workout is fantastic. Sometimes, the pain will show up and then go away during the warm up, in which case the workout is usually fine. If the pain is there once I'm done with the last set of squats, I'm screwed.



I can't recreate the pain right now (go figure, I'm not doing legs today either), but best I can describe it is under the patella, and the patella ligament itself.
The pain isn't sharp, it's more of a dull pain, but very sudden and powerful. Imaging doing a squat, and some prick comes along and kicks you right under the knee cap.

Myofascial release aka foam rolling and it sounds more like you have issues with the patella (the patella doesn't have a ligament, BTW) tracking, which could be a myriad of issue from a tight IT band to hamstrings. Leg extensions are one of the worst things you can do if you're having knee issues, so steer clear of those.

This is partially why I don't haphazardly recommend gear to people without having background knowledge.

[Cobalt]

Myofascial release aka foam rolling and it sounds more like you have issues with the patella (the patella doesn't have a ligament, BTW) tracking, which could be a myriad of issue from a tight IT band to hamstrings. Leg extensions are one of the worst things you can do if you're having knee issues, so steer clear of those.

This is partially why I don't haphazardly recommend gear to people without having background knowledge.

*Patellar Tendon, I didn't mean ligament.
I'll avoid leg extensions for a while then, see how that goes.
Is stretching still an ok thing, or should I back off on that too?

Also, I have to throw this out there.
I played baseball for a few years, and I was the catcher. Was playing one day, squatting down behind the batter and the pitcher threw a wild pitch. The ball plowed into the side of my kneecap, instantly causing my leg to go numb.
The pain started a year or two after that, but I've had an MRI done on the knee and the doctor said it looked ok.

I also don't do myofascial release, although I hear so much about it I guess I need to look into it.

It's funny you mention the IT band. I bowl a lot for fun, and my left IT band can get irritated, so I do stretch them out a bit.

[Rodja]

*Patellar Tendon, I didn't mean ligament.
I'll avoid leg extensions for a while then, see how that goes.
Is stretching still an ok thing, or should I back off on that too?

Also, I have to throw this out there.
I played baseball for a few years, and I was the catcher. Was playing one day, squatting down behind the batter and the pitcher threw a wild pitch. The ball plowed into the side of my kneecap, instantly causing my leg to go numb.
The pain started a year or two after that, but I've had an MRI done on the knee and the doctor said it looked ok.

I also don't do myofascial release, although I hear so much about it I guess I need to look into it.

It's funny you mention the IT band. I bowl a lot for fun, and my left IT band can get irritated, so I do stretch them out a bit.

Stretching is fine, but will have limited effectiveness unless you have postural imbalances (e.g. pec minor stretch). MFR is going to be the best place to start not only the IT band, but also the sartorius and glutes.

[Cobalt]

Stretching is fine, but will have limited effectiveness unless you have postural imbalances (e.g. pec minor stretch). MFR is going to be the best place to start not only the IT band, but also the sartorius and glutes.

Good stuff, I thank you for the help and advice.

Someone rep this man for me, I can't right now.

[burlyman30]

Someone rep this man for me, I can't right now.

Got it covered. :cool: