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nate3993
02-06-2013, 03:35 PM
Seen a few peeps comment that they like these compounds, but have yet to really see anyone elaborate. So who here has used either? What brand, dose and length of time did you use? What were your results?

longBallLima
02-06-2013, 03:42 PM
used fadogia before. from what i remember... meh

didnt feel anything exceptional.

markam
02-06-2013, 05:29 PM
used fadogia before. from what i remember... meh

didnt feel anything exceptional.

Me too. Didn't get anything from Fadogia. Having said that, sometimes compounds work better when in conjunction with other compounds, but yes, it didn't do jack for me.

weekend
02-06-2013, 05:34 PM
phytotest + sustain alpha + DAA

pman42
02-06-2013, 07:14 PM
I will be starting bulbine in about a week. strength and weight have plateaued for the time being, so it will be a good test. I am getting bloodwork done in the next few days, and might get it done after, too (planned 2 month run of bulbine). So i will definitely update you and let you know

burlyman30
02-07-2013, 12:44 AM
I will be starting bulbine in about a week. strength and weight have plateaued for the time being, so it will be a good test. I am getting bloodwork done in the next few days, and might get it done after, too (planned 2 month run of bulbine). So i will definitely update you and let you know

Along with bloods for test/estrogen, you should consider ast/alt tests as well. I have heard reports of bulbine affecting the liver. Pre and post bloods would be smart and I would be extremely interested in the variations between pre and post bloods with bulbine.

O.N.
02-07-2013, 02:22 AM
Fadogia in HCGenerate is claimed to keep you producing testosterone whilst on cycle and acting in place of HCG.

It's total bullshit and here is why.
In order to keep producing testosterone with either a very high natural level of testosterone or above the normal range for testosterone through the use of steroids or prohormones you would need to effect the hypothalamus and its messenger signals from the GABA receptor complex.

It has been shown that if you can modulate the GABA receptor complex then you can essentially keep producing LH/FSH if you have above normal testosterone levels in your system weather that be naturally produced or synthetically injected.

There is ZERO evidence that Fadogia can modulate the GABA receptor complex a simple google search for "Fadogia GABA" or "Fadogia hypothalamus" "Fadogia modulation" result in ZERO scientific results, this is where google scholar come in handy.

If it cannot modulate the GABA receptor complex well then it cannot do what the supplement company is claiming.

On the flip side Res100 can do this it contains 7,8 benzoflavone and we have so far shown in 1 person...yes i know not many but not many guys are willing to cycle without HCG but in 1 person have shown to be on cycle for several weeks and show that LH/FSH is still being produced you can see the blood results from this here: Testers Needed Prevent Testicular Shrinkage with a New Legal HCG Alternative (http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/online-nutrition/3372-testers-needed-prevent-testicular-shrinkage-with-a-new-legal-hcg-alternative.html)

Also as far as the science goes about 7,8 benzoflavone being a modulator of the GABA receptor complex you can see this here:
Debunking Res100 ingredients (http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/online-nutrition/3076-debunking-res100-ingredients.html)

These last 2 extracts may be hard to understand but they prove that benzoflavone is a modulator of the GABA(b) receptor and that GABA(b) receptor agonists reverses the negative feedback effect of testosterone on gonadotropin-releasing hormone and luteinizing hormone secretion

Benzoflavone is modulator of the GABA(b) receptor complex

1. Modulation of the γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) system by Passiflora incarnata L.
Kurt Appel, Thorsten Rose, Bernd Fiebich, Thomas Kammler, Christine Hoffmann, Gabriele Weiss,*

Modulation of the (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21089181)

Passiflora incarnata L. (Passifloraceae) is important in herbal medicine for treating anxiety or nervousness, Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), symptoms of opiate withdrawal, insomnia, neuralgia, convulsion, spasmodic asthma, ADHD, palpitations, cardiac rhythm abnormalities, hypertension, sexual dysfunction and menopause. However, the mechanism of action is still under discussion. Despite gaps in our understanding of neurophysiological processes, it is increasingly being recognized that dysfunction of the GABA system is implicated in many neuropsychiatric conditions, including anxiety and depressive disorders. Therefore, the in vitro effects of a dry extract of Passiflora incarnata (sole active ingredient in PascoflairŪ 425 mg) on the GABA system were investigated. The extract inhibited [(3) H]-GABA uptake into rat cortical synaptosomes but had no effect on GABA release and GABA transaminase activity. Passiflora incarnata inhibited concentration dependently the binding of [(3) H]- SR95531 to GABA(A) -receptors and of [(3) H]-CGP 54626 to GABA(B) -receptors. Using the [(35) S]-GTPγS binding assay Passiflora could be classified as an antagonist of the GABA(B) receptor. In contrast, the ethanol- and the benzodiazepine-site of the GABA(A) -receptor were not affected by this extract. In conclusion, the first evidence was shown that numerous pharmacological effects of Passiflora incarnata are mediated via modulation of the GABA system including affinity to GABA(A) and GABA(B) receptors, and effects on GABA uptake.

GABA(b) receptor agonist can reverses the negative feedback effect of testosterone on GNRH and LH secretion

1. A gamma-aminobutyric acidB agonist reverses the negative feedback effect of testosterone on gonadotropin-releasing hormone and luteinizing hormone secretion in the male sheep.
Endocrinology. 2000 Nov;141(11):3940-5. A gamma-aminobutyric acidB agonist reverses th... [Endocrinology. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11089523)

Infusion of baclofen, a GABA(B) agonist, into the medial basal hypothalamus (MBH) of castrated rams rapidly increases LH pulse amplitude without altering pulse frequency. The objectives of this study were to determine whether baclofen infusion increased LH in testosterone (T)-treated and intact rams, the increased LH was due to increased GnRH release, and FSH secretion also was increased. In the first experiment we tested the main effects and interaction of baclofen and T on FSH and LH pulse patterns in castrated rams (n = 7). In the second experiment we determined whether baclofen affected GnRH and LH pulses in intact males. Microdialysis guide cannulae were implanted bilaterally into the MBH. After recovery of the animal from surgery, the MBH was perfused using concentric microdialysis probes (2-mm tip) with artificial cerebrospinal fluid (aCSF) for a 3-h control period followed by either aCSF or 1 mM baclofen for 4 h. Blood samples were taken at 10-min intervals. T suppressed mean LH concentrations (10.4 +/- 1.3 vs. 3.3 +/- 1.3 ng/ml) such that LH pulses were undetectable in some T-treated animals during the control period. The change (control period vs. drug infusion period) in mean LH was greater in response to baclofen than in response to aCSF and was not altered by T. The baclofen x T interaction was nonsignificant. Mean FSH was decreased by T, but was not altered by baclofen. In the second experiment hypophyseal portal blood was collected coincident with microdialysis. Infusion of baclofen into the MBH of intact males (n = 7) resulted within 1 h in the onset of frequent and robust GnRH pulses (0.10/h before baclofen vs. 1.57/h after baclofen) that were followed either immediately or gradually by coincident LH pulses. One interpretation is that baclofen acts downstream of the site of action of T. GABA(B) receptors may regulate pulse amplitude in both the presence and absence of T and regulate pulse frequency by modulating the inhibitory effect of T.

sandman
03-12-2013, 11:22 AM
Fadogia and bulbine are pretty much the best test boosters in the industry right now. Anyone know of any companies that put them both in an all in one supplement?

markam
03-12-2013, 11:27 AM
Fadogia and bulbine are pretty much the best test boosters in the industry right now. Anyone know of any companies that put them both in an all in one supplement?

The company you rep for?

sandman
03-12-2013, 11:40 AM
The company you rep for?

To my understanding no company has combined the two ingredients together.

Coolazice
03-12-2013, 11:56 AM
To my understanding no company has combined the two ingredients together.

So which company do you rep/work for?

Grape Ape
03-12-2013, 12:00 PM
There is Atleast 2 companies I can think of that combine the two.

I enjoy Fadogia in my PCT. I feel it potentiates other test boosters. I believe there is some merit to it Resensatizing the testes.

Clomid: 25mg
Erase: 50mg
Fadogia: 1500mg

sandman
03-12-2013, 12:05 PM
There is Atleast 2 companies I can think of that combine the two.

I enjoy Fadogia in my PCT. I feel it potentiates other test boosters. I believe there is some merit to it Resensatizing the testes.

Clomid: 25mg
Erase: 50mg
Fadogia: 1500mg

That is one hefty dose of fadogia

Grape Ape
03-12-2013, 12:14 PM
That is what you get in Omeagas T-Force, but most other products are in the 1000mg-2000mg range. Not that I really know better, but I wouldn't settle for less than a gram, and would only fuck with the Chromadex Verafied fadogia.

Bulbine seems to be useless from everything I've seen. Atleast the original extracts that were first on the market. It seems to suppress estrogen too far after the second week or so, leading to lowered libido. Funny they originally marketed it as stronger than viagra. There is one companies bumbine that looks good to me, but the whole dose dependant issue keeps me from trying.

sandman
03-12-2013, 12:25 PM
That is what you get in Omeagas T-Force, but most other products are in the 1000mg-2000mg range. Not that I really know better, but I wouldn't settle for less than a gram, and would only fuck with the Chromadex Verafied fadogia.

Bulbine seems to be useless from everything I've seen. Atleast the original extracts that were first on the market. It seems to suppress estrogen too far after the second week or so, leading to lowered libido. Funny they originally marketed it as stronger than viagra. There is one companies bumbine that looks good to me, but the whole dose dependant issue keeps me from trying.

Bulbine put my libido into orbit when I tried it. It was stronger for libido than fadogia. For $20 for 2 months it doesn't hurt to try it.

Grape Ape
03-12-2013, 12:33 PM
Like I said, fadogia is great for recovery in PCT and complimenting other test boosters, IMO. Other test boosters shine in the libiddo apartment much better.

All my info on Bulbine is a few years old, but I do recall seeing more than one disappointing blood work restult.

sandman
03-12-2013, 12:40 PM
Like I said, fadogia is great for recovery in PCT and complimenting other test boosters, IMO. Other test boosters shine in the libiddo apartment much better.

All my info on Bulbine is a few years old, but I do recall seeing more than one disappointing blood work restult.

Probably because people didn't dose it correctly. In the world of more is better bulbine is different. I believe thats why I Force stopped using it.

pman42
03-12-2013, 01:50 PM
i did the body surface area conversion from the rat dose and for me at 6'2" 240lbs the 'ideal' dose was around 713mg of bulbine IIRC. so you can see where more is not better and would put you on the 2nd part of the curve on the downward side if one was to take much more.

that being said, I have been on bulbine for about 2 weeks and can't say i notice anything spectacular. time and bloodwork will tell

killler
03-13-2013, 06:29 PM
To my understanding no company has combined the two ingredients together.

Chaparral Labs Manimal.

killler
03-13-2013, 06:31 PM
Anyway,I have both Fadogia and Bulbine on the way.Tforce and SNS.

I`ll be trying out both,with blood work.I`m only interested in total T.


I am a little vary of Bulbine
It`s supposedly hepato-nephro toxic to a degree on the rats.

Grape Ape
03-13-2013, 06:55 PM
Stack that fadogia with some DAA.

sandman
03-13-2013, 08:02 PM
Stack both the fadogia and bulbine with daa, it would be a cheap natural stack that will really rev up your testosterone

killler
03-14-2013, 02:54 PM
Stack that fadogia with some DAA.
Unfortunately,DAA only works for libido.

Which is not bad at all.

I did bloods after 14 days of DAA at 3g,and nothing was changed in the hormone panel.

nate3993
03-14-2013, 04:09 PM
Unfortunately,DAA only works for libido.

Which is not bad at all.

I did bloods after 14 days of DAA at 3g,and nothing was changed in the hormone panel.

no way. thats crazy nothing was changed but you still got a libido increase? poor quality DAA? prolly not im gonna assume

killler
03-14-2013, 08:09 PM
no way. thats crazy nothing was changed but you still got a libido increase? poor quality DAA? prolly not im gonna assume
I guess some other pathway....dopamine?

But not testosterone as far as I can see.

Guys,I know there was that italian study on DAA but I`m pretty sure it doesn`t boost test in real life.

I read some other posts by people who have done blood tests on DAA and all reports were negative.

I was depressed to see my hormone panel because the libido was great the first 3 runs(although every time I ran it the effect was weaker than before)

nate3993
03-14-2013, 08:20 PM
Dopamine most likely not. DAA can actually raise ur prolactin a little and if it raised dopamine, then that wouldn't be the case.

pman42
03-22-2013, 08:58 PM
well so far bulbine is treating me okay. no major strength increases. I have worked out every day this week so far. My weight is actually down a bit but muscle mass seems to have gone up. I wasn't trying to lose weight, actually trying to gain it if anything, but if my body wants to recomp then whatevs. it might be water weight, i hit the sauna a couple times but i'm not sure yet. time will tell

pman42
04-11-2013, 12:03 PM
OK so in case you have not seen my other thread, bulbine did NOTHING to boost my T levels. my levels are actually down slightly