Burly's TRT journey

[burlyman30]

You will love it! No lethargy, just super alpha male feeling (for me anyway). I've used Epi and just finished a run of Triumphalis, and for me, Mechabol was far better (@125 ed).

I've heard nothing but good reports on this compound. Did you happen to do any blood work afterward to see effects of liver and lipids?

[markam]

I've heard nothing but good reports on this compound. Did you happen to do any blood work afterward to see effects of liver and lipids?

Afraid not. yep, very naughty. Though I did run Aegis @4 caps ed whilst on cycle, plus other support sups.

[weekend]

My friend got rebound gyno from mechabol after a 6 week cycle and pct or torem and TRS

I took it for a week but stopped before it was really doing anything cause of extreme heartburn lol

But my friend loved his on cycle experience

[milehighguy]

My friend got rebound gyno from mechabol after a 6 week cycle and pct or torem and TRS

I took it for a week but stopped before it was really doing anything cause of extreme heartburn lol

But my friend loved his on cycle experience

Got rebound gyno but loved Mecha? Was his SERM or PCT bunk?

Interesting...

Have a few bottles myself for a future run.

[weekend]

He used PP TRS v2 which should honestly be enough and toremifene from iron dragon...

Who knows why rebound gyno but he took 2 bottles of mecha and gained like 20 lbs lol and didn't care about the gyno but nips are puffy to this day.

[burlyman30]

20 lbs from a compound like mecha is impressive.

[milehighguy]

20 lbs from a compound like mecha is impressive.

This ^^^

did not know dudes were up 20 on Mecha! Crazy...

[burlyman30]

Pretty sure "results not typical".

[weekend]

He insisted on taking a ph against my advice to keep building a base, he had been training for a while but not very effectively. He blew up quick with the mecha which was his first cycle.. I honestly think it have him a better mind/muscle connection so he was finally able to lift to a higher potential and thus made faster gains.

[markam]

Pretty sure "results not typical".

I would guess that there was a fair amount of fat gain and bloat from a less than ideal diet. I find the idea of gyno from Mecha rather odd, but if the diet was all over the place, maybe. Mechabol was pretty much side free and I felt great on it. I should mention that I was stacking it with Androbulk and Androhard. I'm curious as to why Antaeus discontinued it as it was very popular; perhaps they wanted to create more focus on their newer products, dunno.

[weekend]

The gyno came at the tail end of pct, nothing on cycle.

[h2s]

I would guess that there was a fair amount of fat gain and bloat from a less than ideal diet. I find the idea of gyno from Mecha rather odd, but if the diet was all over the place, maybe. Mechabol was pretty much side free and I felt great on it. I should mention that I was stacking it with Androbulk and Androhard. I'm curious as to why Antaeus discontinued it as it was very popular; perhaps they wanted to create more focus on their newer products, dunno.

Or shift from ph sales.

As for rebound gyno, non suppressive compounds seem to do this at time. My guess is suppressed testosterone levels, then go into PCT, estrogen rises at a rate that is imbalanced with androgens, and then gyno risk for the sensitive.

[Infamy]

Or shift from ph sales.

As for rebound gyno, non suppressive compounds seem to do this at time. My guess is suppressed testosterone levels, then go into PCT, estrogen rises at a rate that is imbalanced with androgens, and then gyno risk for the sensitive.

Hence why it's always a good idea to use some sort of ai in pct. using a SERM only masks the signs of high estrogen and does nothing to address them.

[burlyman30]

OK, I got back results from my blood work and I'll give you the rundown.

Cholesterol was way way down from the last two times I had it checked. I was at 188 this time. A couple or 3 years ago it was 257 and a year later it was 227. I attribute this to a cleaner diet and less body fat.

RBC, HCT, etc, was high again, as I hadn't given a blood for two months and will do it again soon. The levels were above norm, but not scary high. Just barely above top of range.

Vitamin D was at the low end of normal, 34 in a range of 30-150. This is with regular intake of a multi with D.

B-12 was in normal range.

ALT/AST was not tested this time, but will be on the next blood work.

Estradiol was at 31. <39 is normal range.

Testosterone...
Low - 1100
High - 1500

Apparently my little mini test blast must have not half-lifed out of my system as quick as I thought. The high levels were a surprise to me and a red flag to the endo.

So, while she increased my dosage last time, she decreased it significantly this time to get numbers back in order. She now wants me to use 100mg every 10 days. This sucks, but it is likely my fault for tinkering with my levels.

I have to retest in 60 days, so I will try to comply with her on this. If it gets unbearable, I will call her to ask if I can do 50mg every 5 days instead.

I did ask her how often we will test levels once we get things stable and she said every 6 months. So, maybe I can tinker again with levels when I have 6 months between, but until then, I have to comply.

As always, I'm open to comments or questions.

[weekend]

OK, I got back results from my blood work and I'll give you the rundown.

Cholesterol was way way down from the last two times I had it checked. I was at 188 this time. A couple or 3 years ago it was 257 and a year later it was 227. I attribute this to a cleaner diet and less body fat.

RBC, HCT, etc, was high again, as I hadn't given a blood for two months and will do it again soon. The levels were above norm, but not scary high. Just barely above top of range.

Vitamin D was at the low end of normal, 34 in a range of 30-150. This is with regular intake of a multi with D.

B-12 was in normal range.

ALT/AST was not tested this time, but will be on the next blood work.

Estradiol was at 31. <39 is normal range.

Testosterone...
Low - 1100
High - 1500

Apparently my little mini test blast must have not half-lifed out of my system as quick as I thought. The high levels were a surprise to me and a red flag to the endo.

So, while she increased my dosage last time, she decreased it significantly this time to get numbers back in order. She now wants me to use 100mg every 10 days. This sucks, but it is likely my fault for tinkering with my levels.

I have to retest in 60 days, so I will try to comply with her on this. If it gets unbearable, I will call her to ask if I can do 50mg every 5 days instead.

I did ask her how often we will test levels once we get things stable and she said every 6 months. So, maybe I can tinker again with levels when I have 6 months between, but until then, I have to comply.

As always, I'm open to comments or questions.

What was your injection schedule prior to this test result?

[burlyman30]

What was your injection schedule prior to this test result?

It was "officially" 125mg weekly. however, I had been splitting it up 60mg, 2 x/WK.

[milehighguy]

SubQ still correct?

[burlyman30]

SubQ still correct?

Yes, still subQ. No complaints with it.

[Jelisej]

Maybe your SHBG is high as well, that would contribute to high TT, I would also say that 120-125 is on higher side of TRT dosages but then it also depends from person to person to some it can barely raise to low end of normal, some it can bring to above range- anyway I would say that its better idea to monitor BAT (bioav. test.) as this is feel good factor, really.

[burlyman30]

I forgot to mention that they will test for free testosterone levels as well as TT levels in the next go around.

Good input, J. I may have taken two steps back before I can make one step forward again. Ultimately, I'm thinking 100/WK would be an ideal maintenance dose (or 50, 2x/WK), but we will see what the next round of tests shows.

[burlyman30]

Well, as I expected, libido is down (but not gone). I am following the endo instructions on the dosage reduction 100mg every 10 days). My energy levels are lower, too, but I'm not suffering.

Ultimately, I hope we find a proper WEEKLY dosage, because every 10 days is hard to remember which Saturday or Wednesday I need to inject.

[Jelisej]

Every time I read your log I get pissed off, come on Burly- you've been so many years in hormonal bowling game you should use your knowledge rather than listening to some incompetent endos.
2X a week is least you can do, so based on your previous dosage you could try 2X 55, or 3X 35 with subcutaneous injecting this is not a big deal.
Injecting every 10 days is simply out of question not just for testosterone fluctuations, increased aromatisation but hematocrit and other stuff would be affected.

[burlyman30]

Every time I read your log I get pissed off, come on Burly- you've been so many years in hormonal bowling game you should use your knowledge rather than listening to some incompetent endos.
2X a week is least you can do, so based on your previous dosage you could try 2X 55, or 3X 35 with subcutaneous injecting this is not a big deal.
Injecting every 10 days is simply out of question not just for testosterone fluctuations, increased aromatisation but hematocrit and other stuff would be affected.

I agree with all of this. Here's the thing, though. The endo said that once we get steady numbers in range that I will retest every 6 months. I'm certainly planning to increase dosage frequency once she has a chance to relook at the numbers and I'm on my own for several months. It's certainly not ideal, but I'm 3 weeks into an 8 week retest schedule, so I'll bear with it for now, see the new numbers, and renegotiate the frequency with the doc once she is happy with numbers.

[Jelisej]

"The endo said that once we get steady numbers in range that I will retest every 6 months" - she will never really get steady numbers on every 10 days protocol,
personally I'm not happy with way she is running things and so far you've been lucky IMO, but at some point you body may not be able to cope, and cracks will appear because you are putting your body under strain- your body needs some kind of stability, some kind of equilibrium
it is not just about testosterone- other parts of endocrine system need to respond and thats going to be difficult on 10 day injections, so you have to find way around it- one way or another

[burlyman30]

Instead of "steady", I should have used the phrase "in range". You are right... too much variance on a e10d protocol. I am trying to find a balance of compliance and speaking my mind with the endo. She has my interests at heart, and will listen to my concerns about the current protocol, especially if I try "her way" first. She is not opposed to more frequent dosings as a rule, because she told me of another patient of hers who is on a e5d protocol.

We are now 10 months into my TRT journey. Although I had hoped to be at a point where everything was going perfectly and I would be dealing with the endo only twice a year, it has proven slightly more elusive than expected. I'm holding out hope that by the one year mark of this journey, I will be in a place of agreement with the endo. If not, I'll continue the process until I arrive there. I can say that even at my reduced dosage, I still feel tremendously healthier in every aspect than prior to treatment.

[WesleyInman]

Burly I feel ya man..when I first went on HRT, I had to go monthly and it sucked. I got empty promises, ie if you test low in 2-3 months we will up your dosage.

I actually stayed on the moron I had to deal with's script of 50mgs Eweek for 6 months. My levels were holding steady at 1-300 nanograms and this clown would not increase the dosage. Finally one day I told him if I am that low again I am dropping him if he doesn't increase the dosage. I went back the next month, and my levels were horrific..around like 200nanos. So he agreed to do 100Every 10 days. I walked out after tearing him apart for his inabiity as a doctor.

My issue was I wanted to be sitting at a cool 750+. No reason not to. So i feel your pain. Plus the constant bloodwork and visits got real old real quick. Almost made me go back to black market "self medicating". I had just come clean after doing a 2000mg Eweek test dosage and this guy thought I would mentally and physically adapt to a dosage that wouldn't work on an 80 year old man.

I found in my experiences that many doctors want to "punish" you for your past abuse, or they don't trust you to do your own shots, etc... I told my last doctor if he didn't "treat" me..Id simply go back to abusing the product at a mega dosage. He immediately put me on 100mgs E4 days and I felt so much better and healthy since then.

Either way following you still here, keep the updates coming.

[Freepressright]

Burly, I've read this log with great interest since the beginning. While I respect that you want to be somewhat compliant with your endo, it is clear your treatment protocol as administered by her is a detriment to your best interest. I'd be more inclined to do as Wesley did and start speaking your mind and being perfectly honest with her. As many months as you've been at this, you shouldn't still be tinkering with things like you are. I'd say find a new endo or be far more assertive. Just an outsider's observation.

[burlyman30]

Thanks for the input, FPR. And thanks for following along. Although a new endo is a possibility, word on the street is that I have the best one in town already (we only have 3, and they are all at the same office). To get another one would require a one hour drive to the next major city.

Based on the upcoming blood tests, I will be able to ask for an increase in dosage (if test comes back low) and at the very least, I will ask to increase my injection frequency with smaller amounts injected more often. At this point, I just feel like I have to try her suggestion and then give her feedback on it later. She hears me out quite a bit with my ideas and suggestions, but she will never stop treating the numbers vs the symptoms. She would be fine if I was above range a bit, as long as it dropped into range for the trough test.

[olddawg]

have you thought about asking her for sustanon? I've done it at 1 inj/week and most (not every) of the time I felt no energy loss toward the end of the 6 days

[milehighguy]

^^ interesting point of view. You get a hit quickly with the short esters and lasting hit with the longer ones. Do you think these endo's have enough experience to make such a decision? Or access to Sus...

[olddawg]

I would imagine some would, that' s what sust was developed for I think wasn't it?

[burlyman30]

I would imagine some would, that' s what sust was developed for I think wasn't it?

The new TRT injectable is called nebido and lasts for a month in the system. However, you have to inject probably 5 CCs or more.

I'm not a fan of sust personally. I'd rather have a single ester to time dosages by.

[Jelisej]

To return to technical aspect- IMO 3X a week SQ is quite decent protocol, and is quite simple and straightforward- you draw your blood before next injections and see your low, as it is quite frequent peak want be much higher, also optionally person can follow with HCG injection
target testosterone levels are different for different people, with SHBG level being one of the bigger factors- guys with lower struggle bit more, and they cannot go high as testosterone converts to other metabolites a lot, on other hand people with high SHBG need more to "overrun" SHBG, its not uncommon for some of these folks to have target level of 1200 ng/dl, this kind of sounds a lot but SHBG bound testosterone cannot cross blood-brain barrier, and altough it has tis own receptors in body mostly its just floating in the blood, to say so. Point that I'm trying to make is that from your last bloodwork maybe you did not needed to change a lot, and I felt you've been closer to goal more than ever before so making radical changes

you endo kind of reminds me of Coyote with his plans chasing roadrunner, only you have been suffering instead of coyote
some choices I can swallow (like opting not to use HCG) and some other, but you did get gyno as her fault, which is embarassing (for her)
she never tested other hormones properly which in future may have adverse effect, for example if progesterone is too low your prostate will be messed up
if TSH is high it increases chances of melanomas big time and is inflammatory etc...

You do feel better before treatment, thats for sure, but even if you've been cruisin' on 150 of test a week, you would feel improvement
and in the end; you will eventually have to go through all this ordeal again,
by now you should have been there and optionally thinking about cycle, instead you've been lost in no man's land
surely you can go to some other town?
There is no need to negotiate with stubborn docs/endos- this is your life, and this is your time!

[olddawg]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jelisej again.

Well said JJ, make it happen Burly, enough dicking around. And jj as a point of interest and this goes out to all of you who just follow what you are told in the world and believe what you see or hear without questioning it, did you know that coyotes can run faster than road runners? Sure they can, google it. If you've been fooled by this since childhood just think of what else has slipped by you lol.

[burlyman30]

Thanks guys... I really appreciate your knowledge and words of encouragement to be more proactive. I'm going to digest all of this, sleep on it, and consider my options.

[burlyman30]

Short update: nothing has transpired since our last conversation.. I've been too busy to mess with trying to talk with/get appt with the doc. I only have one more scheduled injection prior to the bloodwork, so at this point I'm going to go through the process, get my BW (free test is supposed to be included this time), find out the results, and discuss them with my doc. I will push for her approval of more frequent injections, and have a conversation about dosage, depending on how the numbers come in.

I thought I'd post a pic or two to let you know what I've been up to. I was out of the gym for about 2 months between work/vacation/illness/vacation and during that time I really decreased my caloric intake. During that 2 months, I went from about 193 to 178. A lot of that was muscle, but I did take off some fat and reduce my belt line too.

I've been back in the gym for almost 2 months now. I decided not to bump up my calories right away and just let the workouts burn more body fat while I was taking advantage of growth from muscle memory. Partly because of this, I have maintained my weight between 180-182, but am getting a little leaner each week. I say "partly" because I have been using peptides 3-4 times daily and can tell this has made a significant difference. My recovery is doubled, and my bad shoulder is at about 75-80% which is a miracle. I still have miles to go, but here are a couple of pics taken this morning...

http://www.imgur.com/9WDIeyk.jpeg

http://www.imgur.com/18f2sBC.jpeg

[Freepressright]

Lookin' good, Burly. Your arms and back are impressive. I wish my back grew as well as yours.

And kudos on flushing the toilet before taking a pic. A brown trout in the bog would have served as a distraction to your overall progress :D

[burlyman30]

Lookin' good, Burly. Your arms and back are impressive. I wish my back grew as well as yours.

And kudos on flushing the toilet before taking a pic. A brown trout in the bog would have served as a distraction to your overall progress :D

What other place would it be OK to take a pic next to a toilet... only for my Swole Source buds!

Thanks for the compliments...

My back... genetics plus a lot of hard work and concentrating on the stretch and squeeze portions.

My arms... It may surprise you to know they are only 16.5". Muscular, but not all that large. I've had them as big as 17.25, but I had more body fat at that time. The leaner arms don't stretch the shirt sleeves as much, but they do look better overall.

[BoneDaddy]

Still swole and thick as hell......

[Scope75]

Pics don't work on my phone but good work on leaning out.

What type of diet are you following or what's your diet look like?

[milehighguy]

Impressed for missing 2 months in the gym. Keep it going!

Thinking I need to follow the 3 times per day peptide dosing schedule!

[longBallLima]

Still swole and thick as hell......

thats what she said




ps - kudos burly, looking great!!

[weekend]

nice grin lol

you pumped in this or no?

youre making major progress

[burlyman30]

Still swole and thick as hell......

Thanks bud.


Pics don't work on my phone but good work on leaning out.

What type of diet are you following or what's your diet look like?

Generally primal diet, with some exceptions and carbs. But I've been doing that for a couple years. The biggest difference is my overall volume of food is reduced. 3 or 4 meals a day, but except for a post workout meal, my meal portions are reduced in size. If I had to throw a guesstimate at caloric intake, I'd say between 2000 and 2500 in most cases.


Impressed for missing 2 months in the gym. Keep it going!

Thinking I need to follow the 3 times per day peptide dosing schedule!

Thanks bud... after 2 months back I feel as though I am back where I was before the 2 month break, only leaner this time.


thats what she said




ps - kudos burly, looking great!!

Thanks.


nice grin lol

you pumped in this or no?

youre making major progress

More of a grimace while I was flexing, but it does look like a sinister grin. Lol.

Thanks. Semi pumped here. This was after a back/delt workout.

[BBG]

Looking thick as hell Burly.

[burlyman30]

Looking thick as hell Burly.

Thanks bud. You're in pretty good shape yourself these days!

[Scope75]

All these complements has me wanting to see these pics.. No Homo

I've even copied and pasted the URL and I get a 404 error of some shit.

[burlyman30]

All these complements has me wanting to see these pics.. No Homo

I've even copied and pasted the URL and I get a 404 error of some shit.

Using tapatalk? Pics came through tapatalk ok on my phone.

[Scope75]

No I just use the full regular site.

[VayneZ]

You're BEAST Burly! Looking very very good for the circumstances you've been through these months! Amazing

[burlyman30]

You're BEAST Burly! Looking very very good for the circumstances you've been through these months! Amazing

Thanks bro. Unfortunately, it seems my life goes in cycles where I can go great guns until I get sick or work or life derails me for a month or two or three at a time. Sadly, over the past 3 years or so, I've probably only trained 6-8 months out of any given year. I am always playing "Catch-up" to where I was the time before. Really really hoping to stay healthy this winter and keep hammering it in the gym. If I can, I think I may be able to reach some new personal bests in size and shape.

[Sperwer]

Looking good, bud!

[Cobalt]

Damn Burly, I want your arms. They look amazing.
And delts.
And back.

Really impressive though, keep it up!

[Scope75]

Damn Burly, I want your arms. They look amazing.
And delts.
And back.

Really impressive though, keep it up!
He must do a bunch of PULL-UPS and chins....

[burlyman30]

Looking good, bud!


Damn Burly, I want your arms. They look amazing.
And delts.
And back.

Really impressive though, keep it up!

Thanks guys.


He must do a bunch of PULL-UPS and chins....

Hahaha. Nice one. I did a lot in my youth, actually. I had the school record for pullups... I think I did 38. Rarely do them anymore, as I don't care for the pullup bar at my gym.

[burlyman30]

Stay tuned... I had bloods drawn this week and have my endo appointment next week on Thursday... I'm Interested to see the results from the dosage change.

[Infamy]

The new TRT injectable is called nebido and lasts for a month in the system. However, you have to inject probably 5 CCs or more.

I'm not a fan of sust personally. I'd rather have a single ester to time dosages by.

It's a 4cc shot in the ass. It lasts about 6 weeks but the best thing about it is the level stays stable for that time rather than a "hill" on the graph as level increase rapidly and then slowly tail off like test e gives .

I didn't think it was FDA approved in the us though? We can get it in the uk on the nhs though (or the black market if you are me!)

[burlyman30]

Progress pics... I feel as though I have gotten bigger since I posted pics 4 or 5 weeks ago. Scale shows me up about 2 lbs, but I definitely feel fuller. These upper body pics were taken with no pump... in fact, it was after a leg workout, so presumably I would be a little deflated.

Still fighting my way back with the wheels... the knees haven't allowed me to do any squatting, which I miss a lot. I had to take a couple weeks off legs entirely when the left knee screamed at me to tell me there was a problem. After that, I have had to do leg presses, which I'm not a fan of. However, it allows me to do something for my legs, so I started very light (2 plates per side) and am slowly moving things upward (6 plates per side this morning, high reps) and taking precautions not to worsen the knee. Putting my feet at the top of the foot plate reduces the knee angle and allows me to get it done.

http://i.imgur.com/ufOOQSK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iiC8Avb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tNLlDdY.jpg

[Scope75]

Burly Got Back!!!!

No Homo

[burlyman30]

Burly Got Back!!!!

No Homo

I see you can view pics now. :p

[Scope75]

I see you can view pics now. :p

What did you change because I didn't do anything different.

[burlyman30]

What did you change because I didn't do anything different.

odd.... nothing different on my end either.

[KAB111]

What did you change because I didn't do anything different.

Scope... not sure if my comment will uncover anything but I can see your Pics on my computer just fine. On mobile... I just see? Icons and if I hit them I think it takes me to photobucket .... just cant see your Pics unless I hit the Icon. Hopefully that helps

[weekend]

Lookin yoked. How tall how heavy?

[burlyman30]

Lookin yoked. How tall how heavy?

Thanks. I feel like I'm really hitting my stride lately.

5'6" and 184 this morning.

[xxiv]

lats are looking wide and low, if my back looked like that I'd have it as my avitar.

looking good.

[weekend]

nice, your pounds per inch are 2.788 and mine are 2.803, not sure what to make of that


your back wins big time though damn those lats are wide

[burlyman30]

nice, your pounds per inch are 2.788 and mine are 2.803, not sure what to make of that


I guess that means you are bigger than me. Lol. You're definitely leaner, or you were in the last pic of you posted.

[weekend]

i'm probably a bf percent lower now and 5 lbs heavier hah

too bad the aesthetics contest lasts so long, i'll have been off cycle for a long while when it ends!

speaking of which, did you enter the contests or are you just judging?

[burlyman30]

i'm probably a bf percent lower now and 5 lbs heavier hah

too bad the aesthetics contest lasts so long, i'll have been off cycle for a long while when it ends!

speaking of which, did you enter the contests or are you just judging?

Just moderating and judging. Someone had to. Lol.

[DJM]

whats pounds per inch??????????????
burly you trimmed down significantly, seeing iv been MIA, i see the big change........back though still as wide and thick as your bulkier shots from a while back......and nice floral arrangement in the washroom

[weekend]

lol it was my attempt to compare our mass to height ratios. probably doesn't work since our physiques look very different. burly's muscles look very... mature lol

[burlyman30]

whats pounds per inch??????????????

Never seen this before either... must be some calculator on BB.com :rolleyes:


burly you trimmed down significantly, seeing iv been MIA, i see the big change........back though still as wide and thick as your bulkier shots from a while back......

Glad to know I'm not the only one who noticed the trim down. Lol. I had to buy new jeans when I lost over 2" on my waist. Still lots of work ahead... I am interested in seeing how far I can take this recomp without going into full on precontest mode.



and nice floral arrangement in the washroom

It's comments like this that make this forum awesome. Haha. Welcome back, bud.

Just for a reference point for those of you who haven't seen this before, here is a pic of me about 2.5 years ago. I was 205 here. And really fat.

http://www.imgur.com/G8qSL.jpeg

http://www.imgur.com/85TKK.jpeg

[Scope75]

Now I can't see the fat pics. Lol

[burlyman30]

Now I can't see the fat pics. Lol

Ha!

[Jack O'Neill]

Very great transformation Burly!
You lost all your hairs in swoling ? Lol

[burlyman30]

Very great transformation Burly!
You lost all your hairs in swoling ? Lol

Haha. And thanks for the kind words. It has been a lot of work with a lot of obstacles, and I have a long way to go still, but it is worth it at the end.

[Sperwer]

Haha. And thanks for the kind words. It has been a lot of work with a lot of obstacles, and I have a long way to go still, but it is worth it at the end.

I like to think that the journey is the end, and that it's worth it just moving it along the path. You're doing it. Keep it up.

[burlyman30]

I like to think that the journey is the end, and that it's worth it just moving it along the path. You're doing it. Keep it up.

Thanks... in my middle age years I am getting better at being a "journey guy" instead of only a "destination guy".

[weekend]

^ somewhat inspiring

[xxiv]

Id never seen those, wow. Those are on par with Ods fat pics.

The real question is how does burly have such a hairy chest and stomach andrelativle clean back?

[burlyman30]

Id never seen those, wow. Those are on par with Ods fat pics.

I'm sure it was meant as a compliment, but it could go either way. Lol


The real question is how does burly have such a hairy chest and stomach and relativle clean back?

Lol... if I had control over where hair grew I would sell my services to Hair Club for Men.

[Jack O'Neill]

Id never seen those, wow. Those are on par with Ods fat pics.

The real question is how does burly have such a hairy chest and stomach andrelativle clean back?

Ahah good question ^ :-)

[Cobalt]

and nice floral arrangement in the washroom

Wow, that caught me off guard, laughed out loud and scared my wife.

Nice progressing burly, its inspiring to see old pics and new ones side by side. Its usually such a slow transition that you don't see the change. I know my two photos in my thread really made me realize how much of a journey this really is, not something that will happen overnight.

I too have a hairy front and clean back. I usually shave it off when it gets too thick though. Never did understand how body hair worked, lol.

[xxiv]

I'm sure it was meant as a compliment, but it could go either way. Lol


the funny thing is you were pretty average, you had an obvious muscle base under there that made you bulky but your body fat was not that far off from the average guy. If anything you were probably in better shape than most of your peers.

[burlyman30]

the funny thing is you were pretty average, you had an obvious muscle base under there that made you bulky but your body fat was not that far off from the average guy. If anything you were probably in better shape than most of your peers.

I actually was training when that pic was taken... was probably benching around 3, squatting in upper 3s and DLing over 4 at that time. I just got overzealous with calories while I was trying to put on mass. I put on 50 lbs that first year back to the gym after a decade-long layoff. Spent the last 2.5 years peeling it back off. Lol.

[xxiv]

I actually was training when that pic was taken... was probably benching around 3, squatting in upper 3s and DLing over 4 at that time. I just got overzealous with calories while I was trying to put on mass. I put on 50 lbs that first year back to the gym after a decade-long layoff. Spent the last 2.5 years peeling it back off. Lol.

this sounds very familiar.

[Sperwer]

Thanks... in my middle age years I am getting better at being a "journey guy" instead of only a "destination guy".


Yeah, as one get's older, the notion of reaching the destination gets increasingly less appealing :rolleyes:

[burlyman30]

Yeah, as one get's older, the notion of reaching the destination gets increasingly less appealing :rolleyes:

Hahaha. Good point!

[burlyman30]

OK... an ACTUAL TRT update today!

To recap, in May I was at 100/WK and the endo decided we had room to bump it to 125/WK. Levels at 100/WK were 500/800 (low/high) if memory serves me correctly... but at 125/WK my levels were too high, prompting her to drop to 100/e10d. I followed that protocol for 2 months and came back low again (291/453).

She agreed to go back to 100/week and we talked about the possibility of injections more than once weekly.

She was shocked how low my low number was and asked my opinion of why I think that is happening. I told her I think that I metabolize it faster than some, as I can feel a drop in energy after about 5 days. She seemed to agree with my explanation but didn't want to make two adjustments simultaneously.

I retest in 8 weeks at the revised dosage and as long as that comes out within reason (I expect it will) I will talk to her about 2x/WK injections. I was doing that before, without her approval, and loved the way I felt.

Amazingly, even with lower levels, I don't feel too bad overall. My energy levels are down about 30% and my libido is down 70% from 2 months ago. I have been sleeping more lately, too... just not "raring to go" at 530 am like I was. But I haven't felt crummy like I used to before I started the TRT.

I anticipate libido and energy to increase with the adjusted dosage. Libido was OK, but not great at 100/WK previously, which is why we bumped to 125 in the first place.

[weekend]

I feel like 75 2x a week is perfect.

Why not do 50 2x until 3 weeks before your retest and then switch back to 100x1?

Retarded she dropped you from 125/wk to 100e10 when it was low at 100/wk

- - - Updated - - -

My dad is still on 100 2x a week and loves it but I also found out he doesn't get laid either which is a problem when his dick finally works...

[burlyman30]

I feel like 75 2x a week is perfect.

Why not do 50 2x until 3 weeks before your retest and then switch back to 100x1?

Retarded she dropped you from 125/wk to 100e10 when it was low at 100/wk

- - - Updated - - -

My dad is still on 100 2x a week and loves it but I also found out he doesn't get laid either which is a problem when his dick finally works...

I'm sure I would like it at 75, 2x/WK but my numbers would come in too high for sure.

I considered doing 2x/WK for a bit, but seeing how I survived 2 months at e10d, 1x/WK for 8 weeks is no biggie. I dicked around with my dosages already and it bit me in the butt with the high numbers. I just want to play it her way for a bit longer, knowing she is open to future adjustments.

Agreed on the dosage reduction... it was a knee jerk reaction, but I was at 1100/1500, so I understand why she wanted to bring them down.

[weekend]

1100 seems legit haha

Why are old women so hard to get in bed? My mom probably is afraid to look at herself naked anymore, maybe that has something to do with it

[burlyman30]

1100 seems legit haha

Why are old women so hard to get in bed? My mom probably is afraid to look at herself naked anymore, maybe that has something to do with it

Maybe after she had you she never wanted to make that mistake again. Haha

[weekend]

alas, i am only the first born. maybe its because my dad has 20 lbs of hanging skin.

[burlyman30]

alas, i am only the first born. maybe its because my dad has 20 lbs of hanging skin.

Could be. Haha

[Sperwer]

OK... an ACTUAL TRT update today!

To recap, in May I was at 100/WK and the endo decided we had room to bump it to 125/WK. Levels at 100/WK were 500/800 (low/high) if memory serves me correctly... but at 125/WK my levels were too high, prompting her to drop to 100/e10d. I followed that protocol for 2 months and came back low again (291/453).

She agreed to go back to 100/week and we talked about the possibility of injections more than once weekly.

She was shocked how low my low number was and asked my opinion of why I think that is happening. I told her I think that I metabolize it faster than some, as I can feel a drop in energy after about 5 days. She seemed to agree with my explanation but didn't want to make two adjustments simultaneously.

I retest in 8 weeks at the revised dosage and as long as that comes out within reason (I expect it will) I will talk to her about 2x/WK injections. I was doing that before, without her approval, and loved the way I felt.

Amazingly, even with lower levels, I don't feel too bad overall. My energy levels are down about 30% and my libido is down 70% from 2 months ago. I have been sleeping more lately, too... just not "raring to go" at 530 am like I was. But I haven't felt crummy like I used to before I started the TRT.

I anticipate libido and energy to increase with the adjusted dosage. Libido was OK, but not great at 100/WK previously, which is why we bumped to 125 in the first place.


Interesting. I got my latest blood work back yesterday too and was able to talk to the doc about it. My T score on a scale of 2-8 is 11, which he thinks is just fine; in fact, he's not opposed to pushing it up higher, but we won't discuss that in detail until next go round. I also asked him about injections instead of gel, but his attitude was why fix something that isn't broke; actually he thinks the transdermal makes it easier to maintain a steady level, so is the best option. Cost is equivalent of about USD185/month. The Testogel seems to be working fine and keeping me well above avg at a dose of 100mg/day, which depending on what you believe about the absorption rates means something like 50mg+/day - 350mg+/week effective rate. It's pretty convenient too; I just slather it on my chest every morning when I wake-up and still am on auto-pilot; and I like not having another stick to do along with the Tren these days.

[weekend]

i believe transdermals only work well when the user is lean. you're still lean, right?

my dad was up around 220 lbs at 30% bf when he started the gel, he ended up with a huge rash using 100 mg/day and his test levels only went up to 450 on a scale of 270-1100

now he's chillin at 1300 on injections (probably around where you're at as well) and has since dropped to 16% bf lol

[Sperwer]

i believe transdermals only work well when the user is lean. you're still lean, right?

my dad was up around 220 lbs at 30% bf when he started the gel, he ended up with a huge rash using 100 mg/day and his test levels only went up to 450 on a scale of 270-1100

now he's chillin at 1300 on injections (probably around where you're at as well) and has since dropped to 16% bf lol

Yep, still pretty lean.

But i don't know why that would make a difference - at least w/ respect to something like test, as contrasted w/ a thermogenic, eg.

Transdermal carriers can provoke idiopathic reactions; the original trenazone caused the skin on my clavicles and upper chest to turn into constantly itching, shedding dry alligator hide. No problems w/ testogel though.


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[weekend]

the doc wouldnt check his e2, ever, but i believe a lot of the test was converting as he was fat enough that all of the test had to go thru a fatty layer. but also, just sheer absorption, i think there is something about bodyfat preventing the penetration of ingredients as well.

total broscience though, take it or leave it. i take your high test levels compared to his as evidence for my theory.

[Sperwer]

the doc wouldnt check his e2, ever, but i believe a lot of the test was converting as he was fat enough that all of the test had to go thru a fatty layer. but also, just sheer absorption, i think there is something about bodyfat preventing the penetration of ingredients as well.

total broscience though, take it or leave it. i take your high test levels compared to his as evidence for my theory.

Well, i started long before i got that lean; in fact i was probably @ ~ 25% BF when i began. I made steady progress up the current level and have been able to maintain it regardless of BF level, although the latter hasn't been more than 14% anytime the past several years

Not testing for and controlling for E2 is idiotic. 2.5mg letrozole every week is part of my prescribed protocol.


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[weekend]

i got in a full blown argument with him and he dismissed me as an arrogant kid who looks at the internet too much.

[burlyman30]

Friend of mine does testogel, and it seems to work for him. He's definitely obese but they took his level from 300 to 500 and they didn't pursue an increase in dosage. He gets his through his GP. In fact it was his usage and testimony of improvement that got me more interested in pursuing TRT. I switched to his doc thinking he would prescribe it, but my levels were so low he referred me to the endo.

[Sperwer]

Friend of mine does testogel, and it seems to work for him. He's definitely obese but they took his level from 300 to 500 and they didn't pursue an increase in dosage. He gets his through his GP. In fact it was his usage and testimony of improvement that got me more interested in pursuing TRT. I switched to his doc thinking he would prescribe it, but my levels were so low he referred me to the endo.

Again interesting. My level when i first got tested was some low fraction of 1. But after one shot of nebido the endo switched me over right away.


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[O_RYAN_007]

Looking really good brother Burly! THAT BACK!!!! THOSE SHOULDERS! Keep it up my friend!

[burlyman30]

Looking really good brother Burly! THAT BACK!!!! THOSE SHOULDERS! Keep it up my friend!

Thanks bud. Though I haven't done DLs for a while, my back is a product, in part, from the hundreds of sets of DLs over the years.

[O_RYAN_007]

Thanks bud. Though I haven't done DLs for a while, my back is a product, in part, from the hundreds of sets of DLs over the years.

I'm getting there, from the hundreds of sets and thousands of reps I've down over the past 2 years.

[booklifter]

Thanks... in my middle age years I am getting better at being a "journey guy" instead of only a "destination guy".

Well just you don't stop, believin' - hold on to that leanin'

[burlyman30]

Well just you don't stop, believin' - hold on to that leanin'

Haha... I wondered who would be first in on a "Journey" (the band) comment. Love that band, BTW. One of my top 10 favs. It's inevitable when you grow up in the 70s and 80s, I think.

[burlyman30]

On the TRT... I'm noticing a libido increase since the dosage was changed. I'm not popping boners wherever I go, but I've woken up with wood a couple of mornings (which hasn't happened for a while prior to this past week.) and my interest for sex seems to have increased. I'm happy with what I would consider a positive change.

[booklifter]

Haha... I wondered who would be first in on a "Journey" (the band) comment.

Seriously, I was like five days late and still first in, that's pathetic. People been slackin' since the PP shutdown.

[burlyman30]

I'm way slow on updating this.

Here's the last few months in a nutshell:

I was at 100/WK and tinkered with my dosage prior to blood work in order to get an approval to go up in dosage.

I got approved to go up to 125/WK and felt great. Energy and libido were doing good.

Then the blood work came back and my numbers were too high, so she dropped me to 100 every 10 days. Blood work was done and my numbers were too low.

Went back to 100/WK but I didn't tinker with dosage prior to blood work and numbers came back too high.

She dropped me to 75/WK and I am getting blood work this week. Doc appointment in 2 weeks to see where things land. If she's happy with numbers I will return only twice a year.

Libido and energy have both dropped from the dosage change. I don't feel horrible, but 100/WK was better for sure. At 125 I felt great.

I'll update with blood work results in a couple weeks.

[naeydrin]

About damn time you updated:)
Are you still just injecting once a week?

[burlyman30]

About damn time you updated:)
Are you still just injecting once a week?

For now, yes. I'll have more freedom to to 2x/WK later on but right now that messes with what she wants to see on the blood tests.

[Scope75]

Your Doc is a stickler on your numbers and dosage.
Tell her to take a chill pill. Lol

[burlyman30]

Your Doc is a stickler on your numbers and dosage.
Tell her to take a chill pill. Lol

Haha. Well, that strategy doesn't work well. Don't you know? Women do the opposite of what you tell them. Tell them to chill and they get mad. Lol

[Bucks]

Haha. Well, that strategy doesn't work well. Don't you know? Women do the opposite of what you tell them. Tell them to chill and they get mad. Lol


Unless you say I'm going to stick it in your pussy they never say no put it in my ass instead !

[burlyman30]

Unless you say I'm going to stick it in your pussy they never say no put it in my ass instead !

They just say "no".

[Jelisej]

I'm way slow on updating this.

Here's the last few months in a nutshell:

I was at 100/WK and tinkered with my dosage prior to blood work in order to get an approval to go up in dosage.

I got approved to go up to 125/WK and felt great. Energy and libido were doing good.

Then the blood work came back and my numbers were too high, so she dropped me to 100 every 10 days. Blood work was done and my numbers were too low.

Went back to 100/WK but I didn't tinker with dosage prior to blood work and numbers came back too high.

She dropped me to 75/WK and I am getting blood work this week. Doc appointment in 2 weeks to see where things land. If she's happy with numbers I will return only twice a year.

Libido and energy have both dropped from the dosage change. I don't feel horrible, but 100/WK was better for sure. At 125 I felt great.

I'll update with blood work results in a couple weeks.

Good info, but would be helpful if you could enter actual testosterone results (and any other hormone as well if possible).

[Bucks]

They just say "no".


Especially the married ones !

[burlyman30]

Good info, but would be helpful if you could enter actual testosterone results (and any other hormone as well if possible).

All that info has been posted previously in this thread, but I was just doing a quick general recap of the last few months. I do remember that test levels were 750ish/1250ish last time after doing 100mg/WK. Obviously were a bit higher at 125/WK. I think peak was 1500+. I'd have to look back at my labs or a few pages back in this thread.

I will post blood work from the most recent test in a couple weeks.

[Jelisej]

There are too many pages to look at info...
More frequent dosing does reduce peaks and valleys- thats what we all agree, so basically with more frequent dosing instead 750 - 1250- ish you would get results more like lets say 850 and 1100 or so- which would bring numbers more in range- tough I dont think even 1250 is number to worry about, if anything I would say its good. Even 1500 ng/dl is acceptable, if nothing else gives problems. Just donate blood more often, thats it.
I've got a feeling that your endo is one of those who think with less dosage they can avoid AI, which I dont think works great in practice- I dont see point in being on TRT and going through all that humdrum if one is going to be on low(er) levels.

[burlyman30]

Good input, J. I had a discussion with the endo on my last visit asking her what the long term concern of levels exceeding the acceptable range. Her answer was prostate enlargement/PSA levels. That test always comes back fabulous, though. So I was a bit perplexed by the answer when the tests don't support the concern.

[Jelisej]

I would say that prostate enlargement is usually due to high E2, DHT has some effect as well- testosterone itself is not a problem at all, main concern is with increased blood thickness, platelets and hematocrit, haemoglobin etc which you already know- but donating blood helps here, I've heard of guy doing phlebotomy as well, drinking plenty of water is good, cialis can be used and/or other supps- in any case I did not really hear people having any issues with higher levels of testosterone (up to 1500 ng/dl) and some been on for like 10 years or more, higher than that, dont really know as I dont have nay feedback and studies are rare.
Anyway- real problem is not with guys like yourself who have discipline, but with ones with unhealthy way of life who increase chances of having stroke/heart attack, thrombs etc...
In any case, if dose of testosterone is too high for you, you would realise after while as if your body would not be able to sustain it will show somehow, like progesterone would go too high, and/or prolactin or cortisol would drop, or thyroid levels would drop etc...