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Broly
03-19-2013, 11:17 PM
I'm starting the process of building my next stack and I am very undecided at this point.

I'll start off by asking this... has anyone out there used 11-OXO orally before? All I can find is 11-OXO by LGI.

jw390898
03-20-2013, 12:03 AM
11-Oxo is a nice subtle supplement.

We have 11-Keto which is a clone and comes in 100mg caps, 100caps a bottle and offer a double pot stack that knocks 10% off.

Unsure if it is acceptable to directly link so will not but sure if interested you can find your way there.

weekend
03-20-2013, 01:29 AM
I used 2 bottles of 11-oxo while doing intermittent fasting and strong lifts.. Gained muscle while losing a ton of weight. As soon as I dropped the oxo my squat stalled hard and I went back to my usual routine lol

It definitely preserved muscle at 600 mg a day ish. If you wanted to get really good cutting results with easy recovery i would
Hit up:

11-oxo @ 800 mg 6-8 weeks
Stano @ 800 mg 6-8 weeks

Grape Ape
03-20-2013, 08:15 AM
I've ran 2 bottles of 11-KT spray and was not all that impressed. Overhyped ingrediants.

Nutraplanet is running a stack sale on PES Alphamine and BPS Vanillean. Looks like the best bang for your buck.

Jack O'Neill
03-20-2013, 08:54 AM
I used 2 bottles of 11-oxo while doing intermittent fasting and strong lifts.. Gained muscle while losing a ton of weight. As soon as I dropped the oxo my squat stalled hard and I went back to my usual routine lol

It definitely preserved muscle at 600 mg a day ish. If you wanted to get really good cutting results with easy recovery i would
Hit up:

11-oxo @ 800 mg 6-8 weeks
Stano @ 800 mg 6-8 weeks

What were the product names? Very interested by a recomp stack today
Did you do a PCT after?

SoCal-Nutrition
03-20-2013, 11:37 AM
One of our vendors is planning to release an 11-OXO transdermal in the spring...hoping it's gonna be here soon.

When you planning to run your cycle?

jw390898
03-20-2013, 02:29 PM
^ interesting - be interested to see what carrier they use, could be a nice product if they can keep costs down.

Broly
03-20-2013, 05:21 PM
I've ran 2 bottles of 11-KT spray and was not all that impressed. Overhyped ingrediants.

Nutraplanet is running a stack sale on PES Alphamine and BPS Vanillean. Looks like the best bang for your buck.

Interesting, I've used Anabeta with good results (It's now a permanent part of my PCT) and I really like Erase (Not Erase Pro). PES is solid in my book, I had no idea they released Alphamine until you mentioned it... it looks like a promising thermo.

@SoCal, I'm planning on running it Late May.

h2s
03-20-2013, 05:27 PM
Alphamine is actually pretty decent. PHF hooked me up with some, and it tastes good too.

Broly
03-20-2013, 05:28 PM
Alphamine is actually pretty decent. PHF hooked me up with some, and it tastes good too.

Fruit Punch or Raspberry Lemonade?

Jack O'Neill
03-21-2013, 02:22 AM
Alphamine is actually pretty decent. PHF hooked me up with some, and it tastes good too.

Will try it for my actual cut

Broly
03-23-2013, 12:18 AM
Okay so I've got an idea for a killer PCT... and it could probably be used as an alternative to running your AAS.

I'm curious about running two different SERMS simultaneously. I'm still green behind the ears when it comes to SERMS, I've done one PCT with Torem and it was amazing.

Hypothetical PCT-- Torem and Clomid.
Reasoning-- Torem for the positive effects on lowering LDL while also raising HDL and of course anti estrogen.
Clomid for the stimulation of LH and FSH, and of course anti estrogen.

Where are the GURUS at, DJM, BURLY, H2S.... help me out

Has anyone done this before?
What dosages would you use? (theoretically cut normal solo dosages in half for each)
Do you see any problems that I could be overlooking?

burlyman30
03-23-2013, 12:47 AM
Honestly, if your Torem is GOOD, then it does all the things clomid does, minus the sides. I have seen many PCTs that include both clomid and nolva, though, so you would not be the first to combine SERMs.

I want to mention something though, that you either misstated or maybe misunderstand about clomid and SERMs in general. They are not anti-estrogen. They simply keep the body from recognizing estrogen as such, all the while allowing estrogen levels to remain, or even climb. This could result in post-SERM gyno if not dealt with.

This is why I am very much in favor of a PCT that includes an AI along with a SERM. Although debatable and a bit controversial, I am also in favor of moderate to low dose proviron/stano/AH the first couple or 3 weeks of a PCT when natural androgen levels are zero and need time to rise for your body to protect itself from gyno.

Broly
03-23-2013, 01:01 AM
Honestly, if your Torem is GOOD, then it does all the things clomid does, minus the sides. I have seen many PCTs that include both clomid and nolva, though, so you would not be the first to combine SERMs.

I want to mention something though, that you either misstated or maybe misunderstand about clomid and SERMs in general. They are not anti-estrogen. They simply keep the body from recognizing estrogen as such, all the while allowing estrogen levels to remain, or even climb. This could result in post-SERM gyno if not dealt with.

This is why I am very much in favor of a PCT that includes an AI along with a SERM. Although debatable and a bit controversial, I am also in favor of moderate to low dose proviron/stano/AH the first couple or 3 weeks of a PCT when natural androgen levels are zero and need time to rise for your body to protect itself from gyno.

Thank you Burly! It wasn't as much a misstating as it was me being too lazy to type it all out lol. I understand SERMS do not lower estrogen, I was using it as a generalization for the "idea" of SERMS... if that makes any sense. I've been wondering about the chances of estrogen being levels being too high post SERM so I'm glad you mentioned this!

Would you recommend starting the AI immediately after the SERM or would you overlap with the start of your AI coming near the end of the SERM?

***Edit***

Could you point me in the direction toward the sources which might state Torem effects LH and FSH?

burlyman30
03-23-2013, 09:59 AM
Thank you Burly! It wasn't as much a misstating as it was me being too lazy to type it all out lol. I understand SERMS do not lower estrogen, I was using it as a generalization for the "idea" of SERMS... if that makes any sense. I've been wondering about the chances of estrogen being levels being too high post SERM so I'm glad you mentioned this!

Would you recommend starting the AI immediately after the SERM or would you overlap with the start of your AI coming near the end of the SERM?

***Edit***

Could you point me in the direction toward the sources which might state Torem effects LH and FSH?

As for the AI use, I start it at beginning of pct (or continue it from cycle) and taper it down toward the end of pct when it won't be quite as critical.

As for resources on torem, the smartass in me says to google it. It is a SERM, and they ALL increase LH/FSH.

Broly
03-23-2013, 04:14 PM
the smartass in me says to google it.


Set myself up for this one lol. I'll keep looking

Grape Ape
03-23-2013, 07:40 PM
I enjoyed Alphamine in both results and taste. The fruit punch was pretty good. Took a few days to grow on me, but from there I was addicted. Real smooth stim, that felt not much different than my daily coffee. PES is legit.

BPS' Vanillean has a cool idea behind it, and I think would be an insane addition to the Alphamine.

Both times I ran the 11 Spray I was in the 13-15% BF category. I'd probably only run it again if I was sub 10%. Can't justify the cost. Though as the 7/11 stack stack its not too bad. I enjoyed my 7 Spray run.

Jack O'Neill
03-24-2013, 10:42 AM
I enjoyed Alphamine in both results and taste. The fruit punch was pretty good. Took a few days to grow on me, but from there I was addicted. Real smooth stim, that felt not much different than my daily coffee. PES is legit.

BPS' Vanillean has a cool idea behind it, and I think would be an insane addition to the Alphamine.

Both times I ran the 11 Spray I was in the 13-15% BF category. I'd probably only run it again if I was sub 10%. Can't justify the cost. Though as the 7/11 stack stack its not too bad. I enjoyed my 7 Spray run.

What's your dosage with Alphamine ?

Grape Ape
03-24-2013, 03:18 PM
2 scoops 30-60 minutes before breakfast. A third scoop 3 or so hours later. On occasion I took it preworkout.

Dr. Fever
03-24-2013, 10:52 PM
I too am looking for a cutting product or stack that can tackle some stubborn belly fat(belly button) & along the bottom of my pecs that goes a little to the sides. Any suggestions?

Jack O'Neill
03-25-2013, 12:11 AM
2 scoops 30-60 minutes before breakfast. A third scoop 3 or so hours later. On occasion I took it preworkout.

I fast until 12AM. So no breakfast

I took 2 scoops this morning. I will see...

Dr. Fever
03-25-2013, 02:49 AM
I too am looking for a cutting product or stack that can tackle some stubborn belly fat(belly button) & along the bottom of my pecs that goes a little to the sides. Any suggestions?

Bump

Broly
03-28-2013, 05:30 PM
Any experience with GW1516 in this community?

The research says it causes cancer and WADA publicly warned people of it's dangers yet people continue to run it. For the purpose of cutting it sounds almost too good to be true. One of the Guru's on here told me they ran it but didn't see much, also said it could have been bunk.

Jackswift
03-29-2013, 09:44 PM
I just recently ran Abliderate Advanced with Formeron and DAA followed by Alphamine stacked with Vanilean and at one week in to this stack I added 11-spray. I still have about a week left of the Alphamine and Vanilean left and will run the 11 Spray until it is gone at one application a day (probably equivalent to about 600mg dosed orally) at night I have been using R-Spray. All this combined with shit tons of exercise and a clean diet has yielded good results. I had to loose a lot weight for a tournament and was calorie deficient and feeling like shit. My goal was to keep as much strength and muscle as possible during this process. I feel like the 11-spray made a big difference. When I added in the 11-spray I felt some strength return and muscles started to pop again and improved overall well being. I've been running the Alphamine at 3 scoops a day and 3 vanilean caps a day. What doses have been working for you guys?

Broly
03-30-2013, 11:09 PM
I just recently ran Abliderate Advanced with Formeron and DAA followed by Alphamine stacked with Vanilean and at one week in to this stack I added 11-spray. I still have about a week left of the Alphamine and Vanilean left and will run the 11 Spray until it is gone at one application a day (probably equivalent to about 600mg dosed orally) at night I have been using R-Spray. All this combined with shit tons of exercise and a clean diet has yielded good results. I had to loose a lot weight for a tournament and was calorie deficient and feeling like shit. My goal was to keep as much strength and muscle as possible during this process. I feel like the 11-spray made a big difference. When I added in the 11-spray I felt some strength return and muscles started to pop again and improved overall well being. I've been running the Alphamine at 3 scoops a day and 3 vanilean caps a day. What doses have been working for you guys?

Thanks for sharing, glad to hear the 11 spray brought back the strength.... I wish I had bought some when I had the chance.

I've been stocking up on a few different options:
_11-X (LGI)
_Stano-Drol (CEL)
_Havoc (RPN)

I'm thinking about getting some Anavar but I have yet to find a good source.

Jackswift
03-31-2013, 09:08 AM
Thanks for sharing, glad to hear the 11 spray brought back the strength.... I wish I had bought some when I had the chance.

I've been stocking up on a few different options:
_11-X (LGI)
_Stano-Drol (CEL)
_Havoc (RPN)

I'm thinking about getting some Anavar but I have yet to find a good source.

All those products are solid but I would go with a different stano clone to save money. It seems all the CEL stuff is overpriced. Keep in mind to that all those products you are looking to stock up on are relatively dry compounds. I mean you could run the 11x and stano together for a nice leaning effect but either of those compounds with EPI, hhhhmmmm I dunno, I would go with EPI solo first if you haven't run it yet.

Depending on what you are trying to accomplish, you could also stock up on trenazone. It would go wonderfully with all those compounds mentioned, including anavar.

Broly
03-31-2013, 06:06 PM
All those products are solid but I would go with a different stano clone to save money. It seems all the CEL stuff is overpriced. Keep in mind to that all those products you are looking to stock up on are relatively dry compounds. I mean you could run the 11x and stano together for a nice leaning effect but either of those compounds with EPI, hhhhmmmm I dunno, I would go with EPI solo first if you haven't run it yet.

Depending on what you are trying to accomplish, you could also stock up on trenazone. It would go wonderfully with all those compounds mentioned, including anavar.

I've got three bottles of Trenazone but I'm leaning away from it due to sides. I've run Epi before and I'm aware that it's "dry". I already stocked up on the products above.... Stano and 11-oxo are not as expensive as people make them out to be, once you factor in the money saved from supporting sups like TUDCA it's not that bad at all.

derekh83
03-31-2013, 09:59 PM
I have ran trenazone and Stano for a summer cut last year. I ran trenazone at .75mg which made one bottle last 6 weeks. Stano was at 600mg and was ran for 8 weeks. I was very happy with the results. Awesome leaning fat loss and maybe 3 or 4lbs weight gain but weight gain was not the goal. People under estimate something as strong as tren at a low dose. Libido loss was my only negative tren side. For the record I'm 6ft 225lbs. I don't know body fat percentage but I had 4 visible abbs and this helped me achieve a nice 6 pack. I was taking alpha t2 which I also like a lot. I added the alpha t2 in towards the end and ran it into pct. Planning to running this again this summer.

11oxo, stano, and trenazone would be killer.

h2s
03-31-2013, 10:36 PM
I have ran trenazone and Stano for a summer cut last year. I ran trenazone at .75mg which made one bottle last 6 weeks. Stano was at 600mg and was ran for 8 weeks. I was very happy with the results. Awesome leaning fat loss and maybe 3 or 4lbs weight gain but weight gain was not the goal. People under estimate something as strong as tren at a low dose. Libido loss was my only negative tren side. For the record I'm 6ft 225lbs. I don't know body fat percentage but I had 4 visible abbs and this helped me achieve a nice 6 pack. I was taking alpha t2 which I also like a lot. I added the alpha t2 in towards the end and ran it into pct. Planning to running this again this summer.

11oxo, stano, and trenazone would be killer.

Sounds like a very successful cycle without over doing the doses. I am shocked though you had libido issues on such a low dose of tren with the added stano, but everyone is different. Good work.

Jack O'Neill
04-01-2013, 01:37 AM
I have ran trenazone and Stano for a summer cut last year. I ran trenazone at .75mg which made one bottle last 6 weeks. Stano was at 600mg and was ran for 8 weeks. I was very happy with the results. Awesome leaning fat loss and maybe 3 or 4lbs weight gain but weight gain was not the goal. People under estimate something as strong as tren at a low dose. Libido loss was my only negative tren side. For the record I'm 6ft 225lbs. I don't know body fat percentage but I had 4 visible abbs and this helped me achieve a nice 6 pack. I was taking alpha t2 which I also like a lot. I added the alpha t2 in towards the end and ran it into pct. Planning to running this again this summer.

11oxo, stano, and trenazone would be killer.

What was your diet for this cut with tren ?

Fat Bill Dwyer
04-01-2013, 05:07 AM
I have ran trenazone and Stano for a summer cut last year. I ran trenazone at .75mg which made one bottle last 6 weeks. Stano was at 600mg and was ran for 8 weeks. I was very happy with the results. Awesome leaning fat loss and maybe 3 or 4lbs weight gain but weight gain was not the goal. People under estimate something as strong as tren at a low dose. Libido loss was my only negative tren side. For the record I'm 6ft 225lbs. I don't know body fat percentage but I had 4 visible abbs and this helped me achieve a nice 6 pack. I was taking alpha t2 which I also like a lot. I added the alpha t2 in towards the end and ran it into pct. Planning to running this again this summer.

11oxo, stano, and trenazone would be killer.

I think this is illustrative of two things:

1. Trenazone is amazeballs
2. Stano makes everything better

*edit- Oh and also trenazone is a ball destroyer.

derekh83
04-01-2013, 09:26 AM
Sounds like a very successful cycle without over doing the doses. I am shocked though you had libido issues on such a low dose of tren with the added stano, but everyone is different. Good work.

I have ran Tren prohormones before and it always puts a damper on my libido no matter what dose I take it. Stano defiantly helps. I did notice that I could "feel" the trenazone on day 4. It kicks in very fast. I noticed increased pump at the gym and small but noticeable strength increase which is nice on reduced calories, within the first week.

I was intermediate fasting while on this and first meal was at noon. Carbs were low. My wife cooks so I don't follow an exact diet. I just eat my as much veggies and protein as I can, and carbs last if any. Training wise the only thing I do different is add in cardio.

Broly
04-02-2013, 04:29 PM
I have ran trenazone and Stano for a summer cut last year. I ran trenazone at .75mg which made one bottle last 6 weeks. Stano was at 600mg and was ran for 8 weeks. I was very happy with the results. Awesome leaning fat loss and maybe 3 or 4lbs weight gain but weight gain was not the goal. People under estimate something as strong as tren at a low dose. Libido loss was my only negative tren side. For the record I'm 6ft 225lbs. I don't know body fat percentage but I had 4 visible abbs and this helped me achieve a nice 6 pack. I was taking alpha t2 which I also like a lot. I added the alpha t2 in towards the end and ran it into pct. Planning to running this again this summer.

11oxo, stano, and trenazone would be killer.

Thanks for sharing man.

Did the low dose of Tren do anything to your balls, any shrinkage or aching pains? Was the PCT smooth or were you pretty shut down?

Very interested in your answers! Thanks again

markam
04-02-2013, 04:34 PM
Thanks for sharing man.

Did the low dose of Tren do anything to your balls, any shrinkage or aching pains? Was the PCT smooth or were you pretty shut down?

Very interested in your answers! Thanks again

x2

Broly
04-02-2013, 04:42 PM
I have ran trenazone and Stano for a summer cut last year. I ran trenazone at .75mg which made one bottle last 6 weeks. Stano was at 600mg and was ran for 8 weeks. I was very happy with the results. Awesome leaning fat loss and maybe 3 or 4lbs weight gain but weight gain was not the goal. People under estimate something as strong as tren at a low dose. Libido loss was my only negative tren side. For the record I'm 6ft 225lbs. I don't know body fat percentage but I had 4 visible abbs and this helped me achieve a nice 6 pack. I was taking alpha t2 which I also like a lot. I added the alpha t2 in towards the end and ran it into pct. Planning to running this again this summer.

11oxo, stano, and trenazone would be killer.




Thanks for sharing man.

Did the low dose of Tren do anything to your balls, any shrinkage or aching pains? Was the PCT smooth or were you pretty shut down?

Very interested in your answers! Thanks again


Also I can't remember WHERE I read this but I want to say it was in the product description... It was said that if exposed to any sunlight it would take just 20 minutes for Trenazone to be completely degraded into an unknown compound. Pretty scary, makes you rethink your sources.

Jackswift
04-02-2013, 10:33 PM
Also I can't remember WHERE I read this but I want to say it was in the product description... It was said that if exposed to any sunlight it would take just 20 minutes for Trenazone to be completely degraded into an unknown compound. Pretty scary, makes you rethink your sources.

Damn, that's crazy about Trenazone and sunlight exposure. Man, I really luuuved Trenazone and was thinking about either running that again in a couple of weeks but I'm kinda curious and want to see if maybe Mechabol want shut me down so bad. Part of the reason I like Trenazone is the fact that its not liver toxic and seems fairly low on sides, except for shutdown/loss of libido. Too many compounds to experiment with.

derekh83
04-02-2013, 10:34 PM
Thanks for sharing man.

Did the low dose of Tren do anything to your balls, any shrinkage or aching pains? Was the PCT smooth or were you pretty shut down?

Very interested in your answers! Thanks again

The only sides I noticed was lower libido and some aggression which I don't mind at all. There was probably some shrinkage but I dont remember it being significant enough to worry able. I have ran other cycles where shrinkage and shutdown was a lot worst. Pct was clomid, ur spray and alpha t2. After a week in pct I felt good. After 4 weeks of clomid I finished with a half bottle of sustain alpha lv, I had laying around.

Whenever I use tren my strength increases in the months after. For me this is the way to go a little longer cycle at a lower dose. Gain are slower but easier on hold onto after. Recovery for me also feels easier.

markam
04-03-2013, 01:59 AM
Damn, that's crazy about Trenazone and sunlight exposure. Man, I really luuuved Trenazone and was thinking about either running that again in a couple of weeks but I'm kinda curious and want to see if maybe Mechabol want shut me down so bad. Part of the reason I like Trenazone is the fact that its not liver toxic and seems fairly low on sides, except for shutdown/loss of libido. Too many compounds to experiment with.

Re Mechabol, I'm just about finished 5 weeks on Mechabol stacked with AB and Dermacrine. Negligible ball shrinkage so far (2 weeks left on AB). I'm dosing Mechabol first thing then 5-6 hours later, which as I'm not doing a later dose is possibly helping reduce shutdown. I was way more shutdown on Epi, but my dosage timeframe was much bigger in that case. I guess that's why the shutdown is so neglible from the Androseries due to the once a day dosing. You would get better results splitting the dose over longer periods but you'll be more shutdown. Really liked Mechabol, I feel great on it.

h2s
04-03-2013, 06:24 AM
Damn, that's crazy about Trenazone and sunlight exposure. Man, I really luuuved Trenazone and was thinking about either running that again in a couple of weeks but I'm kinda curious and want to see if maybe Mechabol want shut me down so bad. Part of the reason I like Trenazone is the fact that its not liver toxic and seems fairly low on sides, except for shutdown/loss of libido. Too many compounds to experiment with.

While nothing like a methyl, tzone can slightly raise liver values.

BeaverDan
04-17-2013, 07:33 PM
What did you decide to do for your cut?

Broly
04-17-2013, 08:38 PM
I'm still deciding...

But as of right now I have 12 bottles of 11-x, 6 bottles of Stano-Drol, 2 bottles of Mechabol, and 1.6ish tubes of Dermacrine. I will piece something together out of this shortly.

BeaverDan
04-17-2013, 10:52 PM
Hell man that sounds like a nice stack right there. I'm probably going to give 11 KT spray/AH stack a shot here shortly, for a mild cutting stack.

I bet all that 11-x ran you pretty penny.

Jack O'Neill
04-18-2013, 12:53 AM
Hell man that sounds like a nice stack right there. I'm probably going to give 11 KT spray/AH stack a shot here shortly, for a mild cutting stack.

I bet all that 11-x ran you pretty penny.

I started 11 KT spray since nearly 2 weeks and without modifying macros of my diet, my waist really shrinked. My weight decreased too.

Between 50-60 sprays on morning

Will use 7-KT for PCT (I will take nanodrol in 10 days)

Broly
05-19-2013, 02:40 PM
I've been using Alphamine for a week now, here's a brief review so far...

Max= +10


1.5 scoops Per day (taken at once before breakfast)

Energy: +6
Jitters: +2
Focus: +4
Taste: +10
Muscle Hardening: No signs yet
Muscle Preservation: No signs yet
Endurance: +2

The effects last about 5 hours and come on gradually which I prefer to a rush of energy which tends to give me the jitters. I would compare the "feeling" of Alphamine to that of the original formula thermogenic "Arson"