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Jack O'Neill
04-08-2013, 05:17 AM
Here is my new cycle :

Week 1-3 : 11 Spray (50 sprays/day)

Week 4-9 :
Trenazone : 1.5/1.5/2/2/2/2/3 ml
Nanodrol : 1/1/1/1ml (0.5ml twice a day)
Androhard v3 : 5/5/5/5/5/5/5
Aegis 3x2 caps ED
Talos 2x2 caps ED
Achilles 2x2 caps ED
Anastrozole : 0.25mg 3 days / week
Taurine : 4g ED (2g twice a day)

Week 7 :
Dermacrine 5 pumps

Week 8-10 :
Androhard v3 5/5
Dermacrine 5/5
Oxo-11 400mg/400mg
Anastrozole : 0.25mg 3 days / week

PCT: Week 11-14
Torem : 120/90/60/60mg
Exemestane : 12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5 mg
Anastrozole : 0.25mg 3 days / week
Androhard v3 : 3 caps for 3 days then 2 caps for 3 days then 1 cap for 3 more days
Erase Pro
Testojack 200 (natty test booster)

I'll eventually extend to 5 weeks if I feel good on the 4th week. In that case I won't take nanodrol on the 5th week but still the other products on the same dosage. I will also extend PCT to 5 weeks

My aim is to recomp. Loose fat and keep lean mass (add lean mass ? :) )

Workouts :

Monday : Chest and biceps
Tuesday : karate (cardio like)
Wednesday : Shoulders and triceps
Thursday : OFF
Friday : Back
Saturday : karate ( cardio like )
Sunday : Legs

I usually do 3 sets of 15-25 reps and once a month I do a pyramidal workout for each muscle

Diet :

Carb Back Loading
(See my other logs for more explaination)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/10/usubyzaj.jpg

In average I'm 10% under maintenance

Stats :

Weight : 92kg
Waist : 88cm
BF : ~14%
Height : 6'1
Age : 44
BP : 13/9... A bit too high to my mind. Must consult soon

Started today with 50 sprays on my body this morning once washed. Sprayed on arms, legs, chest and feet.

Patrick Arnold advices to spray behind ears too (will do from tomorrow). He says also that spraying on the balls are the best area but may be irritant. Must be tested

Will start Nanodrol in 3 weeks...

Ps. Thx to markam for his support to help me to plan this cycle

Macdon1588
04-08-2013, 08:05 AM
Good luck Sir. I'm a long ways from my next cycle, but I have to admit I am super curious about Nanodrol. The carb back loading is a smart call as I believe it maybe the perfect way to eat for a cycle.

Jack O'Neill
04-08-2013, 08:22 AM
Good luck Sir. I'm a long ways from my next cycle, but I have to admit I am super curious about Nanodrol. The carb back loading is a smart call as I believe it maybe the perfect way to eat for a cycle.

Thx Macdon. I love CBL too :p

markam
04-08-2013, 09:29 AM
Following. Personally, I'd run the Nanodrol from the start (WK 1 -4) and add the 11-oxo for two weeks before PCT, (5-6). Stanodrol @ 600mgs throughout cycle. (Hope you don't mind me saying this, as everyone has their own way of doing things). The rationale of using 11-oxo before PCT is to reduce cortisol before PCT, and also allow a bit more time 'on' after finishing Nanodrol to help keep gains. I doubt you will find much benefit running 11-oxo the same time as Nanodrol.

edit. You need to also run Aegis or Tudca the same time as the Nanodrol.

Jack O'Neill
04-08-2013, 09:43 AM
Following. Personally, I'd run the Nanodrol from the start (WK 1 -4) and add the 11-oxo for two weeks before PCT, (5-6). Stanodrol @ 600mgs throughout cycle. (Hope you don't mind me saying this, as everyone has their own way of doing things). The rationale of using 11-oxo before PCT is to reduce cortisol before PCT, and also allow a bit more time 'on' after finishing Nanodrol to help keep gains. I doubt you will find much benefit running 11-oxo the same time as Nanodrol.

edit. You need to also run Aegis or Tudca the same time as the Nanodrol.

11 Spray may be used alone. I think it was a good idea to stack it with Nanodrol

But I will keep 11 until the end

I thought Talos was good enough for Nanodrol. Aegis is required?

markam
04-08-2013, 10:35 AM
11 Spray may be used alone. I think it was a good idea to stack it with Nanodrol

But I will keep 11 until the end

I thought Talos was good enough for Nanodrol. Aegis is required?

Absolutely - Nanodrol is methyl and it would be very unwise to run it without Aegis imo.

Jack O'Neill
04-08-2013, 12:05 PM
Absolutely - Nanodrol is methyl and it would be very unwise to run it without Aegis imo.

Thanks for the advice Markam. Will add it in my cycle when I start nanodrol.
I update the first post

markam
04-08-2013, 04:15 PM
Are you still using Talos for cycle support? (You've deleted it from your 1st post).
I would say that it's quite necessary to use something to help mitigate sides like bp, etc. I would only run Nanodrol with a Tudca product and something like AI cycle support or preferably Talos.

Jack O'Neill
04-08-2013, 11:01 PM
Are you still using Talos for cycle support? (You've deleted it from your 1st post).
I would say that it's quite necessary to use something to help mitigate sides like bp, etc. I would only run Nanodrol with a Tudca product and something like AI cycle support or preferably Talos.

It's a mistake. Talos is always used during the cycle. I will correct the 1st post.

Talos and Aegis will be used. I ordered Aegis yesterday so I should have it for the beginning of Nanodrol

markam
04-09-2013, 12:46 AM
It's a mistake. Talos is always used during the cycle. I will correct the 1st post.

Talos and Aegis will be used. I ordered Aegis yesterday so I should have it for the beginning of Nanodrol

Thought so. If you find that you're feeling a bit lethargic on cycle, Stanodrol (AH) at 600mg often helps.

Have a great cycle.

Jack O'Neill
04-09-2013, 12:59 AM
Thought so. If you find that you're feeling a bit lethargic on cycle, Stanodrol (AH) at 600mg often helps.

Have a great cycle.

Thx for the support markam.
I have an open bottle of AH. 600mg is corresponding to how many caps?

markam
04-09-2013, 07:22 AM
Thx for the support markam.
I have an open bottle of AH. 600mg is corresponding to how many caps?

3 caps, if I remember correctly. That's the same dose of AH that's in AM.

Jack O'Neill
04-09-2013, 09:01 AM
72 caps left in my AH bottle.
Will take 3 caps/day for the 3 last weeks

weekend
04-09-2013, 09:02 PM
take that AH in post cycle. i swear its the shit! dose 2 caps AM in PCT for a bit then drop to 1 once you feel more recovered. keeps gains from leaving and gyno from coming

Jack O'Neill
04-10-2013, 04:09 AM
take that AH in post cycle. i swear its the shit! dose 2 caps AM in PCT for a bit then drop to 1 once you feel more recovered. keeps gains from leaving and gyno from coming

You already adviced me with this. Will do this time.
3AH/day for the 2 last weeks, then 2 caps in the morning for several days, then 1 cap in the morning for few days.

Jack O'Neill
04-10-2013, 04:11 AM
My diet will be as follow :
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/10/a6yjy5yp.jpg

USN HM 350Z
04-10-2013, 10:04 AM
I love how detailed you are with things. I wish I could do that with my diet. I cannot control myself when eating though lol

Jack O'Neill
04-10-2013, 10:12 AM
I love how detailed you are with things. I wish I could do that with my diet. I cannot control myself when eating though lol

:cool: it's my logical side. I work in IT department

Jack O'Neill
04-25-2013, 12:58 PM
After several adviced I decided to add Trenazone to my next nanodrol cycle. And a bit of Androhard.

As you can see in the first (updated) post I will take AI, Aegis and Talos during cycle. AI, stane and Torem for PCT

I did 3 weeks with 11kT spray from PN but without any results.

My actual stats are this morning :
Weight : 91.6kg
Waist : 87.6cm

Very near of my stats 3 weeks ago. I hope nanodrol will help in my goal

milehighguy
04-25-2013, 01:20 PM
Very near of my stats 3 weeks ago. I hope nanodrol will help in my goal

If your goal is to gain mass and strength...pretty sure nanodrol will do the trick.

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 12:13 AM
If your goal is to gain mass and strength...pretty sure nanodrol will do the trick.

Sure. It's that I want but without fat if possible

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 12:14 AM
Anyone could tell me how to modify title name of my post ?

It's "Nanodrol / 11-Spray" and I'd like to rename in "Nanodrol / Trenazone - 4 weeks cycle"

burlyman30
04-26-2013, 12:24 AM
Anyone could tell me how to modify title name of my post ?

It's "Nanodrol / 11-Spray" and I'd like to rename in "Nanodrol / Trenazone - 4 weeks cycle"

Renamed per your request, Jack. Good luck on the cycle!

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 12:57 AM
Renamed per your request, Jack. Good luck on the cycle!

Thx a lot Burly

nate3993
04-26-2013, 01:32 AM
Only 4 weeks man? I know UD for only 4, but why not extend the tz a lil?

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 02:22 AM
Only 4 weeks man? I know UD for only 4, but why not extend the tz a lil?

If I extend Tz it would be 1 week more. Don't want yo do more. And I'm limited with timing. Cycle + PCT lasts up to end of june.

I will see how I feel with Tz during the cycle. If I feel good I'll extend TZ with one more week

Will see

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 04:13 AM
I'm a bit stressed about gyno with Trenazone.

Do you think I can stop Tz if I see gyno development?

Is there a risk with AI anastrozole @ 0.25mg 3 day a week?

Thanks to all for your support

Fat Bill Dwyer
04-26-2013, 04:39 AM
I'm a bit stressed about gyno with Trenazone.

Do you think I can stop Tz if I see gyno development?

Is there a risk with AI anastrozole @ 0.25mg 3 day a week?

Thanks to all for your support

Sure you could stop it, or lower it, or bump up the anastrozole, or throw an e-antagonist in there. Whatever you decide to do nano should be pretty impressive all by itself if its bio-availability is as fantastic as advertised.

However it is hard as hell to keep gains and maintain a lean state after a 4 week cycle. Usually you have to be willing to fatten up a bit to keep what you make, and even then it is still pretty iffy.

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 05:34 AM
BBG adviced me to do a 5 week cycle with TZ and nanodrol is planned everywhere on 4 weeks.

5 weeks seem to be the longest cycle with these products + 5 or 6 weeks of PCT

What do you advice ?

markam
04-26-2013, 07:01 AM
BBG adviced me to do a 5 week cycle with TZ and nanodrol is planned everywhere on 4 weeks.

5 weeks seem to be the longest cycle with these products + 5 or 6 weeks of PCT

What do you advice ?

My solution would be to stack TZ and Nanodrol with a something you could run for 7/8 weeks. I.e. Androhard or Stano @ 600mgs (3caps AH) & Dermacrine or Andromass or similar product (maybe AMS).

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 07:11 AM
My solution would be to stack TZ and Nanodrol with a something you could run for 7/8 weeks. I.e. Androhard or Stano @ 600mgs (3caps AH) & Dermacrine or Andromass or similar product (maybe AMS).

I planned to take AH 5caps for 5 weeks. Could take it for 2 more weeks same dosage.
What about suppression after nano+tz. No risks during 2 weeks with only Androhard?

markam
04-26-2013, 07:27 AM
I planned to take AH 5caps for 5 weeks. Could take it for 2 more weeks same dosage.
What about suppression after nano+tz. No risks during 2 weeks with only Androhard?

I doubt that a couple more weeks will make you much more suppressed than you already are from running Nanodrol and Trenazone.
I would say that Androhard isn't enough on it's own. I'd add in at the very least, some Dermacrine and 400mgs 11-oxo ed.

Fat Bill Dwyer
04-26-2013, 08:07 AM
BBG adviced me to do a 5 week cycle with TZ and nanodrol is planned everywhere on 4 weeks.

5 weeks seem to be the longest cycle with these products + 5 or 6 weeks of PCT

What do you advice ?

IMHO the issue with going past 5 or 6 weeks on methylstenbolone is BP. Everyone is different, but at 5.5 weeks I was bleeding profusely from my nose every night until I stopped. My systolic got as high as 165 during the day, diastolic was in the 100s (which was more concerning to me), not sure how high it was at night. Because of this I consider BP to be the limiting factor for how long one would want to run methylstenbolone. Unchecked BP can wreck your kidneys quick, like in a matter of weeks.

My very basic understanding of hypertension secondary to androgens is that it's a result of increased aldosterone secretion, 11b hydroxylase inhibition, or some combination of both. Please someone more informed help me out.

You're taking Talos right?

Talos has SAM-e which supposedly is an effective ACE inhibitor. An ACE inhibitor coud be affective in combating the BP increase from something like nano which is a result of big aldosterone secretions. ACE inhibitors are supposed to prevent all that aldosterone from really constricting your vasculature. Also it might help you balance out the massive fluid retention that UD causes by helping you get rid of some of that extra fluid and sodium(I'm convinced it's intravascular as well as interstitial).

So uhh... I would say if you decide to go past 5 weeks be sure to keep a close eye on BP, but if you can keep your BP controlled (and you're running liver support) you can probably push it longer. Would be interesting to see a BP log of this.

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 08:23 AM
You're right about BP. I have a BP monitor and I will keep a log of BP infos weekly.

But even if I want to extend my cycle, I won't take nanodrol more than 4 weeks. I've got just one bottle anyway.

Fat Bill Dwyer
04-26-2013, 08:28 AM
That makes sense. I think you're right to finish the cycle up with something to help solidify those gains. Just make sure you've got a fast-acting PCT.

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 09:04 AM
I doubt that a couple more weeks will make you much more suppressed than you already are from running Nanodrol and Trenazone.
I would say that Androhard isn't enough on it's own. I'd add in at the very least, some Dermacrine and 400mgs 11-oxo ed.

Is 11kt spray from Prototype Nutrition good? Is it same as 11-oxo?

markam
04-26-2013, 09:34 AM
Is 11kt spray from Prototype Nutrition good? Is it same as 11-oxo?

It's very good, but with a price tag to match:(

I'd just use regular 11-oxo. I'd want to also run something a bit more anabolic than just AH and 11-oxo after Nanadrol/TZ, though.

Edit. I'm pretty sure the 11-KT spray is 11-oxo.

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 09:48 AM
Do you know where I can find Dermacrine?

Edit. Found it in uk ;-) This is a made by BPS now and no more by PP :(

I could take 5 AHv3 + 5pumps of Dermacrine for 2 more weeks of my planned cycle?

Edit2. Out of stock.... :( :(

markam
04-26-2013, 11:30 AM
Do you know where I can find Dermacrine?

Edit. Found it in uk ;-) This is a made by BPS now and no more by PP :(

I could take 5 AHv3 + 5pumps of Dermacrine for 2 more weeks of my planned cycle?

Edit2. Out of stock.... :( :(

I guess people are stocking up, hence the temporary shortage. I only have five or so tubes left:)
I'd start the Derm the last week of Nanodrol or TZ (whichever you run longer) as Derm takes atleast a week to kick in. I think at 5 pumps you get something like 23 days and possibly more with the newer gel type.

Jack O'Neill
04-26-2013, 12:58 PM
Found it in USA. Should be delivered in 3 weeks and I should start in the 5th week.
I hope it will be fine. I didn't find it in Uk :(

Jack O'Neill
04-27-2013, 02:29 AM
So, on 5th week :
1.5ml Trenazone
5 AHv3
5 pumps Dermacrine
0.25mg AI 3 days/week

From 6th up to 7th week :
5 AHv3
5 pumps Dermacrine
50 pumps 11KT spray
0.25mg AI 3 days/week

Jack O'Neill
04-28-2013, 07:28 AM
It's very good, but with a price tag to match:(

I'd just use regular 11-oxo. I'd want to also run something a bit more anabolic than just AH and 11-oxo after Nanadrol/TZ, though.

Edit. I'm pretty sure the 11-KT spray is 11-oxo.

What do you advice me concerning 11-oxo. Do you know good products?

markam
04-28-2013, 07:39 AM
What do you advice me concerning 11-oxo. Do you know good products?

I use Dragon Nutrition 11-Keto @ 400mgs (4 caps). Good to use on the last two weeks of a cycle. Dosing higher can cause lethargy for some people, myself included.

Jack O'Neill
04-28-2013, 01:29 PM
I use Dragon Nutrition 11-Keto @ 400mgs (4 caps). Good to use on the last two weeks of a cycle. Dosing higher can cause lethargy for some people, myself included.

Okay. So I will extend my cycle from 5 to 7 weeks with 11-oxo, AH and Dermacrine.
Thx for the advices

markam
04-28-2013, 03:24 PM
Okay. So I will extend my cycle from 5 to 7 weeks with 11-oxo, AH and Dermacrine.
Thx for the advices

No problem. I will mention that Predator still have Primordial AM, AB, AH, AE and more, but the prices have been hiked up:(

Jack O'Neill
04-28-2013, 10:44 PM
Day 1

So let's go !

Started this morning with 1.5ml of Trenazone on my neck, clavicles and chest. No problem of drying. In 2mn, it was dry enough to wear clothes.
Tasting of Nanodrol is strange but not dirty. It seems like a medication.
Anastrozole is a burning sensation in the mouth. I had to drink water to modify taste in my mouth.

Starting stats this morning :

Weight : 91kg / 200lbs
Waist : 87cm / 34.3'
BF : 14%
BP : 130/93

I will log my feelings about products and workouts each week.

Fat Bill Dwyer
04-29-2013, 04:49 AM
In for this

Coolazice
04-29-2013, 08:14 AM
I'll be following along

Jack O'Neill
04-29-2013, 12:51 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/30/jutehepu.jpg

Doonuts time. Thx CBL

milehighguy
04-29-2013, 09:21 PM
Hitting those clean carbs on day #1? :)

Actually will follow as this should get interesting

Jack O'Neill
04-30-2013, 02:57 AM
Hitting those clean carbs on day #1? :)

Actually will follow as this should get interesting

Carb Backloading protocol :) I eat them one or two times a week.

Jack O'Neill
05-01-2013, 08:50 AM
Just a little update. 3rd day on cycle.

I'm more and more hungry !
No changes in body or strength

Upped prots amount from today in OFF and ON days

O_RYAN_007
05-01-2013, 12:34 PM
I'm in this, i just read the thread from page 1 and the final plan looks solid to me!

Jack O'Neill
05-02-2013, 12:52 PM
Since the beginning of the cycle I feel stiff after each workout as if I didn't do any workout for the muscle since several weeks

I usually don't feel stiff after workouts.

Is this due to nanodrol or/and trenazone? Maybe my workouts are already harder but I don't feel yet the difference ?

4th Day : no changes but I think I won't feel anything before one or 2 weeks

Jack O'Neill
05-04-2013, 12:23 AM
Carb Backloading yesterday night after a back workout.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/04/2uzany2a.jpg
Beef 200g + 5 french fries :) + 150g of bread
X2 :)

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/04/emaru2an.jpg
And doonuts. ...of course

Concerning all other things : no changes in this 5th day.

Scope75
05-04-2013, 06:54 AM
How many grams of carbs are you hitting each BL??

I backload 3-4 times a week with 300-400g carbs each time.
Potatoes and GF pancakes have been my go to items lately.

Jack O'Neill
05-04-2013, 08:15 AM
How many grams of carbs are you hitting each BL??

I backload 3-4 times a week with 300-400g carbs each time.
Potatoes and GF pancakes have been my go to items lately.

Backload 4 times a week with 250-300g carbs.
Essentially white bread and doonuts or turnovers lately

Scope75
05-04-2013, 12:17 PM
Since I've cleaned up my BLs I feel better while eating and I wake up feeling great.
I get to stuff my face with potatoes then soak some pancakes in butter and syrup.

Jack O'Neill
05-06-2013, 06:41 AM
Day 8

This morning :
Weight : 203.5lbs (+3.3lbs)
Waist : 34.5' (+0.2')
BF : 14% unchanged
BP : 135/80 unchanged

No change in term of strength. All my workouts are as usual. I upped a bit for each exercice (in reps or weight) but as usual.

Side effects :
I feel a little bloated. Just a little.
Few mild headaches. More than usual 'cause I never have headaches.

I keep the same strategy for my diet and my workouts for the 2nd week.

694

Jack O'Neill
05-07-2013, 02:55 AM
I feel a bit lethargic since the beginning of the cycle. More than usual, it's sure! Or maybe am I more tired? Do this kind of cycle tires more?

Should I increase AHv3 ? 5 caps ED now

Jack O'Neill
05-07-2013, 03:24 AM
Just an advice about Nanodrol :

Don't overtighten the cap 'cause it will break.

...and I'm not Hulk :rolleyes:

Trenazone cap is more solid.

Jack O'Neill
05-08-2013, 12:47 PM
Day 10

Just a little update to inform you that nano or trenazone are starting to kick. it seems....
My shoulder workout was great and it was easier for me to lift weight compared to the previous week.

will see in the next workouts (next planned is back training on friday)

Bucks
05-08-2013, 03:58 PM
Just an advice about Nanodrol :

Don't overtighten the cap 'cause it will break.

...and I'm not Hulk :rolleyes:

Trenazone cap is more solid.


Says the man running TZ and Nanodrol ! LOL

Jack O'Neill
05-09-2013, 12:20 AM
Says the man running TZ and Nanodrol ! LOL

:rolleyes:

Bucks
05-09-2013, 08:00 AM
I really like TZ. It was low sides for me and I felt healed up the next day after crushing workouts. I also ran it pretty high. I'm interested to see your strength improvements on this run.

Jack O'Neill
05-10-2013, 02:43 PM
Day 12

Very great back workout today. Several reps easy on all sets :) Nano+Tren are starting to give the boost effect !!!

I felt as if I wasn't tired at all during all sets. I wish I can do much more other exercices!!!

No side effects for the moment. Just an excellent boost in strength. it's only the 12th Day. How I will feel in 20 days? :)

Bucks
05-11-2013, 12:06 PM
Like Jack O Hulk! LOL

Jack O'Neill
05-11-2013, 01:05 PM
Like Jack O Hulk! LOL

:)
I can't wait for tomorrow to do legs and see Hulk effects :)

Jack O'Neill
05-13-2013, 01:35 PM
Day 15

No weight today, I will weight myself tomorrow morning.

Today, chest and biceps workout. Nothing special today. I just reached 3x10x220lbs. But it's just one more rep than the previous week.
Started 2ml with Trenazone this morning

Jack O'Neill
05-13-2013, 11:55 PM
Day 16

Stats this morning :

Weight : 93.6kg / 205.9lbs (+2.6kg / + 5.7 lbs from start)
Waist : 88cm / 34.7' (+1cm / +0.4' from start)
BF% : 14.2% (+0.2% from start)

Side effects :
Excepted headaches sunday all the day, which disappeared after workout, absolutely no side effects to report !

Positive effects :
Great increase of my weight but my waist has increased too and this is not what I want. My first aim is to loose fat in keeping (or gaining new) muscle.

So, I will change a bit my diet and from now, I will do clean backload after each workout as Scope75 did ;-)

For the moment, I eat 300-350g of bread then sometimes 4 chocolate doonuts, cereals, .....
I will stop all except bread, potatoes, white rice for ma backloads and keep, of course, a max of proteins !

Concerning strength, I felt a good boost last friday on my back workout (it was obvious with many more reps as usual in the last set, for each exercise).
But no visible strength increase for my legs and chest. Yesterday, I did chest and biceps. For chest, it was as usual even if I reached 3x10x220lbs but for biceps, it was easier to do all sets than usual.

nano+tren bring strength increase for some muscles only for the moment. Maybe I will feel that on all my muscles this week or next week ?

703

Edit. 93.2kg/87.5cm this morning. Stats seem better now. Too much carbs on sunday afternoon, so a bit bloated. All is fine now

Jack O'Neill
05-16-2013, 04:40 AM
Day 17

Weight : 93.2kg / 205lbs
Waist : 87.5cm / 34.5'

Yesterday, shoulders and triceps workout. Nothing special to report. I didn't feel any strength boost on monday and wednesday. I'm in the middle of the 3rd week of my cycle and I don't t feel much changes....excepted for my weight (maybe a part of water, sure)

Jack O'Neill
05-16-2013, 05:19 AM
I plan to up AH dosage in my 5th week. At the same time of the beginning of Dermacrine.

If I don't up AH I'm afraid of suppression without nano and tren in waiting for PCT.

So I'd start on the 5th week (last week of trenazone) with 5 pumps of dermacrine, 400mg of 11-oxo and 9 caps of AH.

What do you think of this? Do you think these 3 products will be enough after nano/tren and before PCT?

Maybe it's not useful to up AH from 5 to 9 caps?
I'm waiting for your feedback

markam
05-16-2013, 06:51 AM
I plan to up AH dosage in my 5th week. At the same time of the beginning of Dermacrine.

If I don't up AH I'm afraid of suppression without nano and tren in waiting for PCT.

So I'd start on the 5th week (last week of trenazone) with 5 pumps of dermacrine, 400mg of 11-oxo and 9 caps of AH.

What do you think of this? Do you think these 3 products will be enough after nano/tren and before PCT?

Maybe it's not useful to up AH from 5 to 9 caps?
I'm waiting for your feedback

Been following, everything sounds pretty good. I wouldn't bother dosing AH more than 6 caps, not worth it, imo.
You could increase the Dermacrine to 6 pumps if you have enough, and I would run a AI for at least the last week of the cycle. I guess you're also using an AI in PCT along with your Serm, if not, you should be.

edit. Not sure what you meant by this: 'If I don't up AH I'm afraid of suppression without nano and tren in waiting for PCT.'

Firstly, AH is not very suppressive, if at all, and Derm is pretty light. Maybe it might be worth adding some other non meth compound. Not sure if it's advisable to run trenazone longer?

h2s
05-16-2013, 07:33 AM
Not sure if it's advisable to run trenazone longer?

Than 4 weeks? Many do.

Jack O'Neill
05-16-2013, 08:49 AM
I run Tren for 5 weeks.

When I talk about suppression I think that nano+tren will shutdown me a lot after 5 weeks. Normally, I should directly go through a PCT to re-up naturally (via serm, AI and natty booster) test level.
So my question is : after 5 weeks, what happens in my body if I'm not naturally able to build testo ? Is 5 caps of AH, 5 or 6 pumps of Dermacrine and 400mg of 11-oxo enough to avoid side effects of a zero production of testo ? I write as I think but it seems that I have not all required infos.

markam
05-16-2013, 09:19 AM
I run Tren for 5 weeks.

When I talk about suppression I think that nano+tren will shutdown me a lot after 5 weeks. Normally, I should directly go through a PCT to re-up naturally (via serm, AI and natty booster) test level.
So my question is : after 5 weeks, what happens in my body if I'm not naturally able to build testo ? Is 5 caps of AH, 5 or 6 pumps of Dermacrine and 400mg of 11-oxo enough to avoid side effects of a zero production of testo ? I write as I think but it seems that I have not all required infos.

I would say that it won't be a problem. Maybe someone can give a proper explanation.

milehighguy
05-16-2013, 09:12 PM
Nothing special to report. I didn't feel any strength boost on monday and wednesday. I'm in the middle of the 3rd week of my cycle and I don't t feel much changes....excepted for my weight (maybe a part of water, sure)

I find this interesting...I would think by day 17 you would see some more results outside of a 5lb water gain. I have no experience with Trenazone but I would think the Nanodrol should be kicking by now. Especially if this is a 4 week run.

Jack O'Neill
05-16-2013, 11:03 PM
I find this interesting...I would think by day 17 you would see some more results outside of a 5lb water gain. I have no experience with Trenazone but I would think the Nanodrol should be kicking by now. Especially if this is a 4 week run.

Yes I thought so too. But for the moment, nothing special. I believed it was kicking previous week on back workout 'cause it was really easier than before but following workouts were normal.

Excepted the colour I was thinking that nano+tren will change me in Hulk :) I must maybe wait for a longer time.

Will see this afternoon with a new back workout

markam
05-17-2013, 03:08 AM
Yes I thought so too. But for the moment, nothing special. I believed it was kicking previous week on back workout 'cause it was really easier than before but following workouts were normal.

Excepted the colour I was thinking that nano+tren will change me in Hulk :) I must maybe wait for a longer time.

Will see this afternoon with a new back workout

If I was you, I'd run the Trenazone longer, maybe two weeks or more.

Jack O'Neill
05-17-2013, 05:08 AM
If I was you, I'd run the Trenazone longer, maybe two weeks or more.

If I feel good after 5 weeks why not? In stacking with dermacrine and 11-oxo?

markam
05-17-2013, 05:29 AM
If I feel good after 5 weeks why not? In stacking with dermacrine and 11-oxo?
Sounds like a plan. (I guess you're running AH also).

Jack O'Neill
05-17-2013, 05:41 AM
Sounds like a plan. (I guess you're running AH also).

Yes AH 5 caps/day

Jack O'Neill
05-17-2013, 09:34 AM
Back workout in progress...

One more time, workout nearly too easy. I must increase weight or number of rep for all sets.

Strange but it seems that nano+tren is very effective for back muscles but not for the others.

Did you already feel this?

Jack O'Neill
05-17-2013, 10:09 AM
Workout finished.

I can confirm that I really felt Hulk boost effect of nano+tren. Very very good workout
It's amazing!

Jack O'Neill
05-17-2013, 01:29 PM
Backoad this evening :

709

350g of cajun chicken
340g of bagels

Jack O'Neill
05-20-2013, 11:30 PM
Day 23

I did chest and biceps yesterday afternoon.

As usual, no great changes with chest. I added 1kg (2.2lbs) in my bench set, so, 3x10x222lbs. The last rep of the 3rd set was not so heavy however. +2.2lbs in the inclined bench too. I would say a little easier than usual.
For biceps, it was clearly easier than usual. I did more reps than plannes on each set.

:confused: Now just a question about suppression :confused:

I never knew suppression during or after a cycle. How can you see or feel you are shutdowned ?
It's strange but after 3 weeks in my cycle, I'm often hard as a rock during the night. And it wakes me up sometimes... It wasn't so hard before my cycle ? Strange isn't it? ... or normal ?

I would say that suppression meaned no erection ????

burlyman30
05-20-2013, 11:49 PM
Day 23

I did chest and biceps yesterday afternoon.

As usual, no great changes with chest. I added 1kg (2.2lbs) in my bench set, so, 3x10x222lbs. The last rep of the 3rd set was not so heavy however. +2.2lbs in the inclined bench too. I would say a little easier than usual.
For biceps, it was clearly easier than usual. I did more reps than plannes on each set.

:confused: Now just a question about suppression :confused:

I never knew suppression during or after a cycle. How can you see or feel you are shutdowned ?
It's strange but after 3 weeks in my cycle, I'm often hard as a rock during the night. And it wakes me up sometimes... It wasn't so hard before my cycle ? Strange isn't it? ... or normal ?

I would say that suppression meaned no erection ????

Suppression and erection function are not the same. You will get your natural production of testosterone shut down hard with those two compounds, but Nano/Ultra definitely gave me more wood. And though some people lose erection ability with tren-like compounds, I have found it increases it for me.

Jack O'Neill
05-21-2013, 04:58 AM
Suppression and erection function are not the same. You will get your natural production of testosterone shut down hard with those two compounds, but Nano/Ultra definitely gave me more wood. And though some people lose erection ability with tren-like compounds, I have found it increases it for me.

Agree with you, more wood for me :rolleyes:

Thanks for the clear answer

Jack O'Neill
05-22-2013, 12:31 AM
Day 24

Stats this morning :

Weight : 93.4kg / 205.5lbs (+0.2kg / +0.5lbs)
Waist : 87.5cm / 34.5' (No changes)
BF : 13.8% (No changes)
BP : 130/85 (No changes)

I gained a bit of weight this week without fat. It's pretty good :)

Concerning strength, I felt a great increase for my back and arms muscles. It was less visible with chest.
I thought nano+tren was giving an incredible strength boost effect but it's very light (to my mind of course)

Don't have really side effects with the cycle for the moment. No more headaches, no back pumps, no acne, no skin irritation with Trenazone (I rotate application each 3 days - 1. on my neck/clavicles/shoulders/chest - 2- behind my legs, on feet and on abs)

713

Just one question about blood test. I must do a blood test for a life insurance contract. Do you think there's a risk to see abnormal numbers ? is it a problem to have test level high for this kind of test ?

burlyman30
05-22-2013, 12:34 AM
tren is known for its strength giving properties... i got very little strength from Ultra/nano, though.

Jack O'Neill
05-22-2013, 12:45 AM
tren is known for its strength giving properties... i got very little strength from Ultra/nano, though.

I'm on the 4th week of tren and want to take it up to 6 weeks if no side effects. Strength will certainly appear soon

Jack O'Neill
05-27-2013, 11:18 PM
Day 30

First part of my cycle finished. I took my last dose of Nanodrol yesterday and started 11-oxo and Dermacrine yesterday too.

400mg 11-oxo
5 pumps of Dermacrine

Difficult to find free clean part of my body after applying Tren and Dermacrine :)

Stats this morning

Weight : 95.5kg / 210.1lbs (+4.5kg/+10lbs)
Waist : 88.5cm / 34.9' (+1.5cm/+0.6')
BF : 14.1% (+0.1%) - But it doesn't reflect reality - Sure. I would say 15% (+1%)
BP : 140/90 this morning. A bit too high - I must check it each morning to be sure

No side effects reported excepted a bit of fat gained ;-)
No headaches at all but I must sleep strongly and longest as possible to rest a maximum.

As far as strength is concerned, after nanodrol, I can say that I felt a big difference for my shoulders, my arms and especially my back ! For my back, it was magic and I had to add weight and reps for each workout !
For legs and chest, a bit increase of strength but nothing of abnormal.

Now I will see the difference without nanodrol. Tren is in the 5th week and I started Dermacrine and 11-oxo to follow the cycle.

730

For the next weeks I absolutely have to remove bad carbs of my diet. Difficult to resist..... but I must to do it. Just a carb reload (about 300g) after each workout. No reload now in a OFF day. I gained too much fat these 2 last weeks and I don't want to....

Jack O'Neill
05-29-2013, 12:52 AM
So I finished nano 2 days ago.

Must I continue to take Aegis 3x2caps per day?

Concerning Talos, is it required to take it during PCT too? (I take it Talos in the same time as Trenazone)

markam
05-29-2013, 02:21 AM
Jake (Ataeus labs) recommends only taking Aegis while using a methylated compound, so now you've finished Nano, stop taking Aegis. Jake said it was neither beneficial or desirable to take Aegis after Nanodrol or similar.

I'd definitely continue using Talos on cycle and 3-4 weeks in PCT. Some may feel 2 weeks is enough in PCT, your call.

Jack O'Neill
05-29-2013, 02:53 AM
Jake (Ataeus labs) recommends only taking Aegis while using a methylated compound, so now you've finished Nano, stop taking Aegis. Jake said it was neither beneficial or desirable to take Aegis after Nanodrol or similar.

I'd definitely continue using Talos on cycle and 3-4 weeks in PCT. Some may feel 2 weeks is enough in PCT, your call.

Thx for the feedback

Fat Bill Dwyer
05-29-2013, 05:40 AM
You're still running TZ? TZ also elevates liver enzymes(IME). Although I've never heard of it causing cholestasis, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to say that it might contribute. You probably don't need Aegis, but TUDCA has a very good track record, especially around the 500mg range, so if it makes you feel better it wouldn't hurt.

Jack O'Neill
05-29-2013, 08:31 AM
You're still running TZ? TZ also elevates liver enzymes(IME). Although I've never heard of it causing cholestasis, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to say that it might contribute. You probably don't need Aegis, but TUDCA has a very good track record, especially around the 500mg range, so if it makes you feel better it wouldn't hurt.

I take Talos from Antaeus Labs in the same time as Tren. I thought it was enough?

USN HM 350Z
05-29-2013, 08:57 AM
You should probably be taking Aegis or Liver Lock. If you can get some UDCA, that would be primo. Both of these compounds are harsh on the liver and a TUDCA/UDCA product should be used. If you have elevated liver enzymes it can do nothing but help.

Jack O'Neill
05-29-2013, 09:03 AM
You should probably be taking Aegis or Liver Lock. If you can get some UDCA, that would be primo. Both of these compounds are harsh on the liver and a TUDCA/UDCA product should be used. If you have elevated liver enzymes it can do nothing but help.

Do you know good TUDCA/UDCA product?

USN HM 350Z
05-29-2013, 09:09 AM
I like both Aegis and Liver Lock. Have tried both and worked equally well. I ran liver lock while on Mech/Tren and my liver enzymes stayed within normal limits. I was really impressed as I expected them to be pretty elevated.

SoCal nutrition carries both. ID had UDCA if you wanted to go that route.

Fat Bill Dwyer
05-29-2013, 09:10 AM
I take Talos from Antaeus Labs in the same time as Tren. I thought it was enough?

Honestly you probably don't need anything for two more weeks on TZ, just saying that TUDCA wouldn't hurt. The only real precaution against it I've heard of was one against pre-loading before drinking, otherwise TUDCA seems very safe. It has been studied in humans at 500mg/day for as long as a year with no real issues. Talos has NAC correct? Two-weeks of that couldn't hurt either.

Also wondering about the UDCA recommendation. I was under the impression that TUDCA was just as effective, if not more so. Is this a bad impression?

*Edit - the folks who took TUDCA for a year at 500mg/day were liver transplantees. One-year pilot study on... [Ital J Gastroenterol Hepatol. 1999 Aug-Sep] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10575563)

Jack O'Neill
05-30-2013, 12:11 AM
The only real precaution against it I've heard of was one against pre-loading before drinking, otherwise TUDCA seems very safe.

Could you please explain what it means?

markam
05-30-2013, 02:18 AM
Very surprised you didn't use TUDCA for your cycle. I'd get on it ASAP!
Aegis is TUDCA with another compound, and Antaeus is a known reputable company, so Aeigis is a no-brainier, imo.

Fat Bill Dwyer
05-30-2013, 04:05 AM
Could you please explain what it means?

Sorry didn't mean to throw you off, this is a little off subject but:

TUDCA is generally very safe, but if you're planning on going out and drinking 4 bottles of wine you shouldn't take TUDCA before doing so. Rather you should take it as you drink the booze, or afterwards.

Jack O'Neill
05-30-2013, 06:09 AM
Very surprised you didn't use TUDCA for your cycle. I'd get on it ASAP!
Aegis is TUDCA with another compound, and Antaeus is a known reputable company, so Aeigis is a no-brainier, imo.

But Aegis contains TUDCA. I ordered Tudca but could I take Aegis until I receive it?

Jack O'Neill
05-30-2013, 06:10 AM
Sorry didn't mean to throw you off, this is a little off subject but:

TUDCA is generally very safe, but if you're planning on going out and drinking 4 bottles of wine you shouldn't take TUDCA before doing so. Rather you should take it as you drink the booze, or afterwards.

Ok I understand what you said but I never drink. To be honest I don't drink since more than 8 years... No alcohol, never

Fat Bill Dwyer
05-30-2013, 06:21 AM
Ok I understand what you said but I never drink. To be honest I don't drink since more than 8 years... No alcohol, never

I think Markam was under the impression you didn't have Aegis, no need to order more TUDCA if you already have Aegis.

As for drinking I thought you were obligated as a frenchman to consume at least a bottle a day of fine wine. This is no longer true?

markam
05-30-2013, 10:49 AM
Ok, now I'm confused,so...

You've been on Aegis all along? Just that you were mentioning that all you needed was Talos?
Anyway, Aegis contains TUDCA and another compound, so you'd be better off using Aegis, than just TUDCA, imo.

Jack O'Neill
05-30-2013, 02:19 PM
Ok, now I'm confused,so...

You've been on Aegis all along? Just that you were mentioning that all you needed was Talos?
Anyway, Aegis contains TUDCA and another compound, so you'd be better off using Aegis, than just TUDCA, imo.

No problem markam ;-)

So I continue to take Aegis AND Talos during Tren

Jack O'Neill
06-01-2013, 02:14 AM
Good back training yesterday. Good feelings. Don't feel the stop of nano.
Weight is upping...fat too.

I hit my left knee on the end of my barbell yesterday. Very very painful. I'm lucky it was at the end of the training. I feel that my articulations are less solid that before my cycle? Normal? Maybe AH and Tren? It's the same with my elbows. However I take Achilles and glucosamin each day.

This morning karate session. Don't know if I will manage it. My knee is always painful. It's less painful than yesterday afternoon but karate positions are very low and knees are really used.

I will see...

Jack O'Neill
06-03-2013, 04:37 AM
As for drinking I thought you were obligated as a frenchman to consume at least a bottle a day of fine wine. This is no longer true?

I totally stopped all alcohol since I met my wife. She do not drink at all and as I don't like to drink alone, I prefered to stop.

A bottle a day for a frenchman :) Such a reputation we have on the other side of the planet :) just need one or 2 glasses of wine to feel good and keep a good health !

Jack O'Neill
06-05-2013, 02:41 AM
Day 38

Stats this morning :
Weight : 96.5kg / 212.3lbs (+5.5kg / +12.1lbs)
Waist : 89cm / 35.1' (+2cm / +0.8')
BP : 120/90 (Correct for me)

5 weeks are passed with Trenazone, 4 weeks with Nanodrol.
Weight is still upping (fat is upping too but anyway I will do a cut after my PCT in trying to keep a max of muscle).
Strength is still increasing and I felt a little boost in chest muscles on monday, for the 1st time in my 5 weeks cycle.
For the other muscles, strength is clearly increasing each week ! I didn't train legs on sunday 'cause I was tired following a hard and long karate session on saturday.

745

I normally have to do one week (up to 7 weeks before PCT) but I'm in holidays in the middle of July and I go to another country. I don't want to take AI, Torem with me of course.
So I think I will stop my cycle at the end of my 6th week, in order to start my PCT. Then, I will do a PCT during 5 full weeks.

I think it's better to do 5 weeks instead of 4 weeks. What's your opinion ?

Do you think I should continue a 7th week (with only AHv3 / Dermacrine / 11-oxo) and start a 4 weeks PCT or stop the cycle on sunday and start a 5 weeks PCT ?

olddawg
06-05-2013, 04:21 AM
I'd do the extra week on cycle, it's pretty short as it is

Jack O'Neill
06-05-2013, 05:19 AM
I'm in my 6th week of Trenazone.

If I do a 7th week for my cycle, as planned, could I take Trenazone for a 7th week?

Fat Bill Dwyer
06-05-2013, 05:34 AM
Sounds like it is treating you pretty well so far. If you don't mind me asking how are your testicles? Any pain or atrophy?

Jack O'Neill
06-05-2013, 06:52 AM
Sounds like it is treating you pretty well so far. If you don't mind me asking how are your testicles? Any pain or atrophy?

No pain, no atrophy at all. This is strange but quantity of sperm seems to be increased...a lot. And I'm hard as a wood each morning.

This is the opposite of what I thought of this kind of cycle.

Fat Bill Dwyer
06-05-2013, 08:55 AM
No pain, no atrophy at all. This is strange but quantity of sperm seems to be increased...a lot. And I'm hard as a wood each morning.

This is the opposite of what I thought of this kind of cycle.

Wow!

I don't want to equate atrophy with LH/FSH desensitization, because they're not the same thing, but if I were in your situation I would feel very comfortable going for at least another week.

Bucks
06-05-2013, 10:55 AM
No pain, no atrophy at all. This is strange but quantity of sperm seems to be increased...a lot. And I'm hard as a wood each morning.

This is the opposite of what I thought of this kind of cycle.

I had the same results when I ran it but I was also using HCG. Wanted to bang everything and I ran it at high doses.

If you feel good I would run another week.

Jack O'Neill
06-05-2013, 11:06 AM
I had the same results when I ran it but I was also using HCG. Wanted to bang everything and I ran it at high doses.

If you feel good I would run another week.

Yes I feel good, very good. Just suffering from hard lethargy sometimes. But I'd like to train every day if I could do.

You ran Tren at which dose?

Bucks
06-05-2013, 12:28 PM
Trenazone was high when I ran it. 3.5-4ml .

3.5 is a good spot for me . Over that and I couldn't breath well when doing cardio.

Down side is bottles go real fast at that dose, but I could work out every day felt fully recovered.

I didn't get lethargic, but I ran a AH AM with it as well.

Jack O'Neill
06-05-2013, 01:03 PM
Yes, very high indeed!

Do you think it would be usefull to up dosage to 2,5/3ml ED for the 11 remaining days pr 2ml is enough?

Bucks
06-05-2013, 01:26 PM
If you have it run it.

If you start to get sides just back it down the next day.

Jack O'Neill
06-05-2013, 01:30 PM
If you have it run it.

If you start to get sides just back it down the next day.

Yes I have enough with 3ml up to the end of the cycle.

What could I expect sides from Tren with 3ml. No side effects up to 2ml

Bucks
06-05-2013, 06:10 PM
Yes I have enough with 3ml up to the end of the cycle.

What could I expect sides from Tren with 3ml. No side effects up to 2ml

Elevated blood pressure but Talos should keep it controlled . It did for me. Back pumps maybe , I didn't get any but I drink tons of water which also helps the BP. If you get back pumps 3g of Taurine will take care of it.

When I went to 4 ml I started to get winded easy when doing sprints for Cardio .

If you haven't had any sides so far I think you will be fine for 11 more days.

burlyman30
06-05-2013, 06:18 PM
Can't believe how well TZ treats you guys. Dosing at 1.5 had me with swollen nips in 3 weeks. Happy it's working out well for you!

Jack O'Neill
06-05-2013, 09:50 PM
Can't believe how well TZ treats you guys. Dosing at 1.5 had me with swollen nips in 3 weeks. Happy it's working out well for you!

Did you use AI such as Anastrozol during your cycle? What was your dosage?

- - - Updated - - -


Elevated blood pressure but Talos should keep it controlled . It did for me. Back pumps maybe , I didn't get any but I drink tons of water which also helps the BP. If you get back pumps 3g of Taurine will take care of it.

When I went to 4 ml I started to get winded easy when doing sprints for Cardio .

If you haven't had any sides so far I think you will be fine for 11 more days.

Thanks for the advices.

Let's go with 2.5ml this morning. I will up to 3ml if I feel good

burlyman30
06-05-2013, 10:13 PM
Did you use AI such as Anastrozol during your cycle? What was your dosage?


Even letrozole and ralox plus androhard wouldn't keep the gyno away. But that's just my experience. Trenbolone is far less gyno reactive for me.

Jack O'Neill
06-05-2013, 11:16 PM
Even letrozole and ralox plus androhard wouldn't keep the gyno away. But that's just my experience. Trenbolone is far less gyno reactive for me.

I will take care of this

Jack O'Neill
06-07-2013, 11:08 AM
Day 40

Amazing back training today! Trenazone works really good with that muscle, sure. Maybe because it's my best muscle.
I will write here at the end of the cycle the evolution of the perfs for each muscle. It's impressive for back, not too bad for chest but far away from back.

Started Tren with 3ml this morning for the 10 remaining days.

Bucks
06-07-2013, 12:52 PM
Hulk Jack!

LOL

Jack O'Neill
06-07-2013, 11:40 PM
Day 41

Update this morning.

Backpump since yesterday afternoon. Took 6g of taurine yesterday. I usually take 4g per day. However I did a new exercise for my abs yesterday and I think it may be this which give me backache. Will see today...

Concerning gyno, I don't know if it is a bit fat or gyno monster? I shoukd take a picture and upload it here. Is there a way to know if it is or not? I don't feel anything. No ache, nothing.

For today, always 3ml of Tren, 400mg of 11-oxo, 5 caps of AHv3 and 5 pumps of Dermacrine. It remains 9 days before PCT...and 5 weeks before sea, beach and sun :D

burlyman30
06-07-2013, 11:48 PM
Fat on the chest is just fat. Gyno is swelling under the nipple, sore, swollen, sensitive, and hard and/or fibrous tissue, not soft like fat.

Jack O'Neill
06-08-2013, 01:13 AM
Fat on the chest is just fat. Gyno is swelling under the nipple, sore, swollen, sensitive, and hard and/or fibrous tissue, not soft like fat.

Ok thanks for the info. So it's just fat, I'm sure and not worried now.

Jack O'Neill
06-09-2013, 03:25 AM
I'm sweating more than usual since Tren dosage is 3ml.

Do you think it's normal?

weekend
06-09-2013, 03:31 AM
usually a sign of a cranked metabolism... good for fat loss

Fat Bill Dwyer
06-09-2013, 06:42 AM
What weekend said, I'm suprised you didn't notice that when you were on Nano.

Jack O'Neill
06-09-2013, 07:16 AM
What weekend said, I'm suprised you didn't notice that when you were on Nano.

I really noticed that one week ago. My feelings in that cycle is that what I feel is better each week but I didn't feel anything less since I stopped Nano 2 weeks ago. It's like Nano didn't bring me something...? Very strange.

However I did karate session on saturday morning and it was difficult in kihon, if you know it. Very cardio and it was hard to correctly breath. Maybe in relation with the Tren upped dosage (from 2 to 3ml). Didn't do a workout since I take 3ml. Will see this afternoon with my legs workout concerning strength and motivation.

It's important to notice that I'd like to workout each day of the week. And even 2x/day if I could do that.
I keep my 4 usual workouts/week

Bucks
06-09-2013, 09:25 AM
I'm sweating more than usual since Tren dosage is 3ml.

Do you think it's normal?

I left a pond everywhere in the gym when I was running it at 4 ml stacked with 30mg of ment PW.

Are you sleeping ok?

Jack O'Neill
06-09-2013, 12:09 PM
I left a pond everywhere in the gym when I was running it at 4 ml stacked with 30mg of ment PW.

Are you sleeping ok?

I sweat in the gym and during all the day :-)

I often wake up in the night to go to the toilets. Impossible to sleep without interruption
And I feel like if temperature was more than 40°C all the day. I'm hot, very HOT

This afternoon, legs workout. This was amazing :-) especially deadlift. I'm very tired after 1,5h of training but I feel so goooood :-) And I left more than a pond.....A swimming pool :-)

Sperwer
06-09-2013, 06:42 PM
I sweat in the gym and during all the day :-)

I often wake up in the night to go to the toilets. Impossible to sleep without interruption
And I feel like if temperature was more than 40°C all the day. I'm hot, very HOT

This afternoon, legs workout. This was amazing :-) especially deadlift. I'm very tired after 1,5h of training but I feel so goooood :-) And I left more than a pond.....A swimming pool :-)

I had the same experience with Tzone - pools of night sweat and more frequent urination.

As Weekend said, it's a sign that your metabolism is cranked up, something that can be accomplished without AAS and/or PHs too. I experienced the same thing during my contest prep, when I didn't use any AAS or PHs, but was using Alphaine, Vanillean, Reduce XT and Thyrocaps to accelerate fat loss. I got to the point that, except when I was working out or buried under a heavy blanket in bed, I was cold all the time because of having so little Body fat and so few carbs, while we also were having a very cold spring. Otherwise though I was sweating swimming pools at night (almost not at all while actually working out, though), and also having to piss 4-5 times a night (not so often during the day, though, when I actually was drinking all the water - 1.5-2 gallons a day). Except for the bathroom runs, I slept alright - falling asleep easily and right awat again after the toilet trips - and had an unusually large number of very vivd dreams.

Jack O'Neill
06-10-2013, 12:21 AM
Very interesting Sperwer.

I think you mean Alphamine instead of Alphaine?

I will do a cut after my PCT. Did you feel something special with your stack ? Would you advice me thiz stack for me? What was your dosage?

Sperwer
06-10-2013, 02:32 AM
Very interesting Sperwer.

I think you mean Alphamine instead of Alphaine?

I will do a cut after my PCT. Did you feel something special with your stack ? Would you advice me thiz stack for me? What was your dosage?

Indeed, I did mean alphamine.

I did 3 heaping scoops of alphamine a day; 2 in the morning in water as the base of my Pre W/O drink (basically my own hand-mix of PN's All-In), and one in the afternoon.

Thyrocaps, Reduce XT and Vanillean I did 2 caps, 3 times a day in the case of Vanillean and the others 2 times a day at breakfast and lunch. I took this combo for about 8-9 weeks preceding the contest, starting when I weighed about 105kg and ending at a shade less than 95kg. The weight lost was all fat, and I ended up at ~7.2%BF.

I think the combo contributed significantly to the fat loss, but bear in mind that I also ate VERY little carbohydrate (30-50 grams/day max, with three or four cheat days over the course of three months, kept total calories under 2000 (often as low as 1600), and trained six days a week very intensely and did an hour of high intensity cardio 4-5 days a week.

Interestingly, I experienced very little in the way of hunger pangs until the very end - which I attribute, based on past experience with trying a similar diet that made me crave food, to the combo.

Fortunately, my other work, such as it was, during that time did not require any particularly intense mental effort; I don't think I would have been capable of it, certainly not on any sustained basis. But this was because of the severity of the diet in general, not especially attributable to the supps.

As I think I mentioned before, the whole process, I think, rejigged my metabolic set point. So even after I stopped taking the combo, and started eating "normally" again, and the sides of combo (night sweats, frequent urination, esp at night, etc.) dissipated, I couldn't gain any weight; my body was just so amped up it used every bit of energy made available.

Aside from the sweats and urination, there were no other sides except extreme dry mouth during the nights. I especially appreciated the fact that there were none of the physical or mental jitters that I have found to be prevalent with other thermogenic formulas.

One thing I should mention, though, is the possibility that something in this combo sometimes gave me some very strong body odor. L-Carnitine is known to have this effect, and I did use it from time to time in my cocktail, so that may be it. However, I didn't always use the carnitine so, unless there was some persistent effect, it must have come from something else in the mix. I'm guessing the Vanillean, but have not had the time or patience to sort it out. As for the odor itself, it's hard to describe; I never actually smelled it myself. But My wife and daughter complained that when I got back from the gym and then ate, I would start smelling like fried dried squid - a formerly and still popular snack food here in Korea. Suffice it to say it's an acquired taste/smell and isn't likely to be made into aromatherapy candles any time soon.

Hope this is helpful to you in making a decision what do to on your cut.

As always, YMMV.

Jack O'Neill
06-11-2013, 02:44 AM
Indeed, I did mean alphamine.

I did 3 heaping scoops of alphamine a day; 2 in the morning in water as the base of my Pre W/O drink (basically my own hand-mix of PN's All-In), and one in the afternoon.

Thyrocaps, Reduce XT and Vanillean I did 2 caps, 3 times a day in the case of Vanillean and the others 2 times a day at breakfast and lunch. I took this combo for about 8-9 weeks preceding the contest, starting when I weighed about 105kg and ending at a shade less than 95kg. The weight lost was all fat, and I ended up at ~7.2%BF.

I think the combo contributed significantly to the fat loss, but bear in mind that I also ate VERY little carbohydrate (30-50 grams/day max, with three or four cheat days over the course of three months, kept total calories under 2000 (often as low as 1600), and trained six days a week very intensely and did an hour of high intensity cardio 4-5 days a week.

Interestingly, I experienced very little in the way of hunger pangs until the very end - which I attribute, based on past experience with trying a similar diet that made me crave food, to the combo.

Fortunately, my other work, such as it was, during that time did not require any particularly intense mental effort; I don't think I would have been capable of it, certainly not on any sustained basis. But this was because of the severity of the diet in general, not especially attributable to the supps.

As I think I mentioned before, the whole process, I think, rejigged my metabolic set point. So even after I stopped taking the combo, and started eating "normally" again, and the sides of combo (night sweats, frequent urination, esp at night, etc.) dissipated, I couldn't gain any weight; my body was just so amped up it used every bit of energy made available.

Aside from the sweats and urination, there were no other sides except extreme dry mouth during the nights. I especially appreciated the fact that there were none of the physical or mental jitters that have found to be prevalent with other thermogenic formulas.

One thing I should mention, though, is the possibility that something in this combo sometimes gave me some very strong body odor. L-Carnitine is known to have this effect, and I did use it from time to time in my cocktail, so that may be it. However, I didn't always use the carnitine so, unless there was some persistent effect, it must have come from something else in the mix. I'm guessing the Vanillean, but have not had the time or patience to sort it out. As for the odor itself, it's hard to describe; I never actually smelled it myself. But My wife and daughter complained that when I got back from the gym and then ate, I would start smelling like ffued died squid - a formerly and still popular snack food here in Korea. Suffice it to say it's an acquired taste/smell and isn't likely to be made into aromatherapy candles any time soon.

Hope this is helpful to you in making a decision what do to on your cut.

As always, YMMV.

Thanks Sperwer, it's a good plan for my future plan. Concerning diet, I will use keto with carb reload/week or 2 reloads/month.

Jack O'Neill
06-11-2013, 02:47 AM
Day 44

Stats this morning :

Weight : 97.5kg / 214.5lbs (+6.5kg / +14.3lbs)
Waist : 89.5cm / 35.3' (+2.5cm / +1')
BP : 130/90 - A bit too high, but not too bad

I upped Trenazone dosage at the end of the previous week, from 2ml to 3ml. With one day @ 2.5ml

I noticed that I sweat a pond each time I train. I usually never sweat (except during training when temperature is high). A little effort is synonym to sweat a lot. This didn't appear when I was taking 2ml but this is real @ 3ml. Excepted this effect, I don't feel other sides (positive nor negative) since 4 days (@3ml).

I did leg workout on sunday successfully, especially for deadlift. It was almost easy and I enjoyed it ! No big changes with squat and leg curls. My carves are always very very strong. As usually. They are huge !
Yesterday was Chest and biceps workout. When I do Legs workout on sunday, I feel very tired on monday. Recup is not efficient in just one day. Moreover I do a karate session on saturday and legs are very solicited.
I think I will stop legs workout, or maybe decrease weight on sets. Maybe I will work on long sets (20 reps) for squat and leg curls ?

I noticed that cardio is harder since I'm @3ml. Difficult to correctly breath during effort.

It remains 5 days in my cycle and my last bottle of Trenazone is nearly empty :-( I ordered a new one few days ago and should normally be delivered today. Fingers crossed ... :eek:

I added Dermacrine and 11-oxo in the 5th week but I don't feel anything about strength.

However, whatever which products do that, but my weight is easily upping..... My aim is to reach 100kg (220lbs) at the end of cycle (with less fat as possible of course but difficult to gain muscle without fat for me). I will cut after PCT to remove bad fat.

753

Jack O'Neill
06-14-2013, 01:00 PM
Today back workout. As usual, it was intense and almost easy! Weights are heavy but I'm really motivated up to the roof.

7th @3ml but I didn't feel any differences with @2ml. I will stay @2ml for my next Tren cycle. Just sweated a lot the first days @3ml. After 3rd day, it's gone and I sweat as usual now. It as maybe linked to higher temperature outside few days ago.

Weight is still upping. It's linear. Fat too...

I will decrease drastically carbs during PCT.

Bucks
06-14-2013, 07:38 PM
Glad to hear your still killing it. Has the breathing with the cardio improved like the sweating or still the same?

Jack O'Neill
06-15-2013, 03:14 AM
Glad to hear your still killing it. Has the breathing with the cardio improved like the sweating or still the same?

I believed it was different at the beginning but it was certainly a placebo effect. And finally still the same than @2ml

D-2 before PCT

Jack O'Neill
06-17-2013, 03:09 AM
PCT Day 1/28

Stats this morning :

Weight : 98.5kg / 216.7lbs (+7.5kg / +16.5lbs)
Waist : 90.5cm / 35.7' (+3cm / +1'4)
BP : 130/90 - No changes

Last day of my 7 weeks cycle was yesterday. My last 3ml of Tren and 5 pumps of Dermacrine. This morning, I won 5mn without applying them :-)

Start of my PCT (for 4 weeks. I would like to do more but I must go outside my country in 4 weeks and I don't want to travel with liquid products like Torem, Exemestane or Anastrozole) :

12.5mg of Exemestane
120mg of Toremifene
0.25mg of Anastrozole
1 cap of Erase Pro
2 caps of TestoJack 200

From tomorrow I apply 7 Spray from Prototype Nutrition (50 sprays ED)

My feelings about this cycle :
This is my 3rd PH cycle. First was Andromass v2/Androhard v2 on 4 weeks, second was Androlean V3/Androhard v3 on 8 weeks.
If I think about the 3 cycles I'd say that this 3rd cycle was really the best !
I gained too much fat but I really gained muscle and this is important ! I know I wouldn't have gained so much fat if I didn't eat much carbs. Diet was perfect but too high in carbs after workout. Difficult to keep the good carb ratio ....
My strength was increasing all along the cycle but especially on back. Shoulders and arms was better too. But I don't really feel too much changes concerning strength for my chest and my legs.
Even if strength hasn't upped too much, muscles have growned. This is sure ! For ALL muscles.

Now, it becomes difficult to wear my suits. It's required to cut....quickly :-)

What can I see is that my legs have really growned and it's not too good for me in karate. I must stop working with heavy weights for my legs and start working in full long set of 25-40 reps.
My back is huge (for me of course :-) ) and my arms don't fit in my actual tshirts anymore.

Side effects during this cycle :

Gyno : No
Balls shrecking : No. balls were not reduced
Libido : Difficult to say. Always want to jump on all pretty girls :-). I'm hard as a rock each morning on wake up. Better than before the cycle !
Prostate : slight increase of the prostate. I can say that 'cause I have to piss during the night (but effect is less strong than with Andromass)
Headache : Yes. From week 1 to week 3 but it was ponctual. Sometimes hard, often slight.

Concerning workout evolution, you can see below a part of my exercices evolution throught 7 weeks :

764

Good results on my back !

Here's the evolution of my stats during the 7 weeks :

765

I'll give you my feeling at the end of each week of my PCT.

I will adapt my diet now to try to not gain more fat in adjusting carbs %. I keep the amount of prots and fat but I will just keep carbs just after workout (PWO) and for the meal after workout.

Do you think it could be a good idea to take carbs (malto) during my workout (instead of after) ? This is not what is adviced by Kiefer in Carb back loading however. Just to reduce carbs amount and keep a good motivation and strength during workout.

markam
06-17-2013, 03:57 AM
PCT Day 1/28



Do you think it could be a good idea to take carbs (malto) during my workout (instead of after) ? This is not what is adviced by Kiefer in Carb back loading however. Just to reduce carbs amount and keep a good motivation and strength during workout.

I'm not giving advice on this, but what I have recently started doing is take carbs throughout the last half of the workout, and then no more carbs. (Unless my son leaves a whole pizza uneaten. Haven't got THAT much willpower. Out of sight, out of mind, but just don't leave Pizza around. LOL)

Sperwer
06-17-2013, 04:22 AM
Those look like some good numbers, Jack. Nice work!

BTW, would you consider sharing the Excel spreadsheet format you use (I'm assuming it's excel)? I'm a techno-neandrathal when it comes to spreadsheets.


PCT Day 1/28

Stats this morning :

Weight : 98.5kg / 216.7lbs (+7.5kg / +16.5lbs)
Waist : 90.5cm / 35.7' (+3cm / +1'4)
BP : 130/90 - No changes

Last day of my 7 weeks cycle was yesterday. My last 3ml of Tren and 5 pumps of Dermacrine. This morning, I won 5mn without applying them :-)

Start of my PCT (for 4 weeks. I would like to do more but I must go outside my country in 4 weeks and I don't want to travel with liquid products like Torem, Exemestane or Anastrozole) :

12.5mg of Exemestane
120mg of Toremifene
0.25mg of Anastrozole
1 cap of Erase Pro
2 caps of TestoJack 200

From tomorrow I apply 7 Spray from Prototype Nutrition (50 sprays ED)

My feelings about this cycle :
This is my 3rd PH cycle. First was Andromass v2/Androhard v2 on 4 weeks, second was Androlean V3/Androhard v3 on 8 weeks.
If I think about the 3 cycles I'd say that this 3rd cycle was really the best !
I gained too much fat but I really gained muscle and this is important ! I know I wouldn't have gained so much fat if I didn't eat much carbs. Diet was perfect but too high in carbs after workout. Difficult to keep the good carb ratio ....
My strength was increasing all along the cycle but especially on back. Shoulders and arms was better too. But I don't really feel too much changes concerning strength for my chest and my legs.
Even if strength hasn't upped too much, muscles have growned. This is sure ! For ALL muscles.

Now, it becomes difficult to wear my suits. It's required to cut....quickly :-)

What can I see is that my legs have really growned and it's not too good for me in karate. I must stop working with heavy weights for my legs and start working in full long set of 25-40 reps.
My back is huge (for me of course :-) ) and my arms don't fit in my actual tshirts anymore.

Side effects during this cycle :

Gyno : No
Balls shrecking : No. balls were not reduced
Libido : Difficult to say. Always want to jump on all pretty girls :-). I'm hard as a rock each morning on wake up. Better than before the cycle !
Prostate : slight increase of the prostate. I can say that 'cause I have to piss during the night (but effect is less strong than with Andromass)
Headache : Yes. From week 1 to week 3 but it was ponctual. Sometimes hard, often slight.

Concerning workout evolution, you can see below a part of my exercices evolution throught 7 weeks :

764

Good results on my back !

Here's the evolution of my stats during the 7 weeks :

765

I'll give you my feeling at the end of each week of my PCT.

I will adapt my diet now to try to not gain more fat in adjusting carbs %. I keep the amount of prots and fat but I will just keep carbs just after workout (PWO) and for the meal after workout.

Do you think it could be a good idea to take carbs (malto) during my workout (instead of after) ? This is not what is adviced by Kiefer in Carb back loading however. Just to reduce carbs amount and keep a good motivation and strength during workout.

Jack O'Neill
06-17-2013, 05:15 AM
Those look like some good numbers, Jack. Nice work!

BTW, would you consider sharing the Excel spreadsheet format you use (I'm assuming it's excel)? I'm a techno-neandrathal when it comes to spreadsheets.

Thx Markam.

Yes, I work with an Excel file. What file do you think? Weight follow-up?

Sperwer
06-17-2013, 05:17 AM
Both please. You can email me at sperweractual@gmail.com. TIA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jack O'Neill
06-17-2013, 07:11 AM
Both please. You can email me at sperweractual@gmail.com. TIA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Done. But training stats is just a file without any formula

Sperwer
06-17-2013, 07:17 AM
Done. But training stats is just a file without any formula

Thanks

Jack O'Neill
06-17-2013, 02:05 PM
I hit 3x10x229lbs (104kg) on the bench today. New PR :-)

LBC-83
06-17-2013, 02:16 PM
Congrats. New PRs are always good to read about.

Jack O'Neill
06-17-2013, 11:40 PM
Congrats. New PRs are always good to read about.

Thanks ;-)

Jack O'Neill
06-18-2013, 11:04 PM
I 've realized yesterday in doing karate that my feets had swolen. Not a lot but enough to realize it.

This is the first time for me and in surfing via google, i realized that this symptom could be very dangerous (blood circulation pbm, heart pbm...) and somewhere I found that it was one of a possible side effect of exemestane.

I immediately stopped it to check but it could be that because my feet are swolen since monday afternoon and I began exemestane (and Torem) on monday. Will see tonight how are my feet but this morning they were fine.

I still take torem, anastrozole, few caps of AH (in decreasing each 3 days) and Erase Pro.

Which is the risk in my PCT if i don't take exemestane? Could I up dosage of Anastrozole instead of taking exemestane? For the moment, dosage of Anastrozole is 0.25mg e3d

Jack O'Neill
06-19-2013, 07:10 AM
The trouble may come from Torem maybe?
Same problem today without exemestane. Feet become to swole after lunch and now, 3PM, are a bit swolen.

Does anybody know this ? This is annoying...

Jack O'Neill
06-19-2013, 09:02 AM
And Torem makes me sweating a lot !

Fat Bill Dwyer
06-19-2013, 09:36 AM
The trouble may come from Torem maybe?
Same problem today without exemestane. Feet become to swole after lunch and now, 3PM, are a bit swolen.

Does anybody know this ? This is annoying...

Never had this issue with Torem before. How high are you dosing?

Jack O'Neill
06-19-2013, 09:55 AM
Never had this issue with Torem before. How high are you dosing?

120mg for the 1st week, then 90/60/30

Jack O'Neill
06-19-2013, 12:08 PM
I should maybe try with 90mg tomorrow ? What do you think about it?

nate3993
06-19-2013, 12:48 PM
I should maybe try with 90mg tomorrow ? What do you think about it?

yeah. u only use 120 for a few days as the initial dose and then drop it down to 90. thats the standard protocol, so try it out

Jack O'Neill
06-19-2013, 12:50 PM
yeah. u only use 120 for a few days as the initial dose and then drop it down to 90. thats the standard protocol, so try it out

Thanks. I will try it tomorrow with 90mg.

Jack O'Neill
06-19-2013, 11:51 PM
As planned 90mg of Torem this morning. Will see my feet status all along the day

Fat Bill Dwyer
06-20-2013, 06:06 AM
As planned 90mg of Torem this morning. Will see my feet status all along the day

Sounds like a plan,

IME 90mg has done the job very well, and very quickly without any noticeable sides.

Jack O'Neill
06-23-2013, 11:44 PM
PCT End of week 1

Stats this morning :

Weight : 96.5kg / 212.3lbs (+5.5kg / +12.1lbs)
Waist : 89.5cm / 35.3' (+2cm / +1')
BP : 130/90 - No changes

First week of PCT over.

I took 120mg of Torem for 3 days, then decreased to 90mg for 4 days.

I noticed that Torem / Exemestane was swoling my feets !!! especially in the end of the day. So I stopped Exemestane 'cause I believed it was guilty but feet was always swolen.

With 90mg, it's really better and my feet are just slightly swolen (or not at all. It depends of the day) at the end of the day. No changes in adding Exemestane, so I restart taking it 3 days ago.

For this week :

Torem : 120/120/120/90/90/90/90mg
Exemestane : 12.5/12.5/0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5mg
Anastrozole : 0.25/0/0.25/0/0.25/0/0mg
Androhard v3 : 3/3/3/2/2/2/1 caps
Erase Pro : 1/1/1/1/1/1/1 cap
Testojack 200 : 6/6/6/6/6/6/6 caps

I lost 2kgs (4.4lbs) this week and a bit of my waist. However I didn't change my way of eating. Just cut a bit of carbs.
For the moment, I eat prots/fat until the end of workout and then, 40g of carbs if my PWO shake, and then about 200-250g of carbs at the dinner. No more carbs after unlike previous weeks ;-) I think my lost weight is due to a loss of water.
No changes in my strength for the moment, and I'm able to up a bit each weight for each exercise this week.

Planned for next week :

Torem : 90/90/90/90/90/90/90mg
Exemestane : 12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5mg
Androhard v3 : 1/1/1/1/1/1/1 cap
Erase Pro : 1/1/1/1/1/1/1 cap
Testojack 200 : 6/6/6/6/6/6/6 caps
7-KT (50-60 sprays)

I have some Intimidate iForce in my shelves. According to you, is it useful to add it in my PCT or it's maybe too much ?

770

Jack O'Neill
07-10-2013, 02:10 AM
Little update.

I'm into my 4th PCT week.
I decreased torem dosage to 30mg this week.

For the moment all is good.
No more lethargy at all, I like it :)

Strength is still fine on all muscles excepted in my chest muscles. Difficult to keep my PR 3x10x231lbs. I hit 10/9/7 on monday. Same results with decline bench.

Back exercices are still upping however. Good

Libido was down in the 2nd and 3rd week but it seems better now!

Weight is 208lbs and my waist 35.1'

I lost a pack of water I think