Also look at my bloods on torem and clomid in my progress log
My LH and FSH are both out of range high
No HMG was used. You're probably significantly preventing pituitary recovery in reality.
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Also look at my bloods on torem and clomid in my progress log
My LH and FSH are both out of range high
No HMG was used. You're probably significantly preventing pituitary recovery in reality.
I agree with Weekend on both posts; thing is in most cases even if PCT is not used one usually one will eventually recover tough chances of not recovering or not recovering enough is significantly higher than with proper PCT. On top of that blood there is important part that we cannot test- like receptors, which in a way almost makes blood test useless- because if person prior cycle had for example 800 ng/dl and after 810 ng/dl its not neccessary that he is better off with 810 ng/dl- that number only says what is concentration of testosterone in blood- but not how efficiently is used up by cells etc.... If person has 600 ng/dl and top of range thyroid hormones he will surely be better than someone with 800 ng/dl testosterone and low thyroid levels (and adrenal hormone levels)- second guy will for sure have problems with E2, prolactin etc....
I agree that hmg effects both lh and fsh, and I will retest in a couple weeks. Tues was my last hmg dose.
How u like torem?
- - - Updated - - -
Mixed with Clomid? Dosing? Considering getting some torem to stack with my clomid
Based on my observations, after most of medium-and-longer cycles- in standard swole PCT (that you are using) testosterone levels usually go back fairly quickly- but it still takes a while for everything that settles down, so IMO PCT should be for 10 weeks
I've noticed that there is lot of acne problems- I had it myself, and it seems that it subsides at week 8-9, I beleive that acne are connected to E2 but I would say that it signalises that testosterone metabolism is still not good, so based on that I would always go for 10 weeks, even tough it sounds too long- last few weeks dosage can be lower than beggining.
Also feedback from mix of clomid and nolva is good, I tried it myself, and I give 2 thumbs up- I used clomid 3 days a week (mon-wed-fri) 25 mg, and nolva 20 mg- mind you that nolva/tamoxifen has a lot shorter half-life than clomid and torem, so thats why I used bit high dose (also my pituary is bit nonresponsive)
It seems that I got your previous posts wrong, as I tought that you are still on HMG, (which is not PCT as HPTA is still shut)- HMG (same as HCG) protect testicles from athrophy or even restores testicle size after cycle, and sometimes people use HCG or HMG for a while after cycle, till AAS clear out- and then start PCT. But if you are on week 7 of PCT, then another 5 or 6 weeks will be more than enough.
Well, different people different views- IMO that was not a PCT, because your HPTA was still shut as Weekend said it few posts back.
Personally, I'm bit surprised that you complicated things so much as I considered you as one of more experienced and knowledgeable folks in here.
sooooo. i got updated bloodwork after using clomid and torem together eod-e3d for about almost 2 months...
now. my levels are better. but eh. i was hoping they'd be a little higher. unfortunately i forgot to get my lh and fsh, but here's what i got
TSH to T4 Reflex- 2.05 0.40-4.5
Estradiol- 28 <39
SHGB- 34 10-50
Total Test- 563 250-1100
Free Test- 82.8 35-155
at least my free test more than doubled. and that's a pretty good number considering what my shgb is at
do i continue to use torem and clomid? almost like a mini trt protocol? do i go off of all hormone influencing stuff and then retest? what do y'all think.
How long did were you off clomid and other stuff when blood test was done? Clomid has a long half-life, and you should take more than 8 weeks to get proper results.
If this is your natural result than thats lot of improvement, and your usual results are not better than this. E2 is really good. SHBG is high-ish, thyroid results I don know how to interpret, I dont have experience with this kind of test.
I took Clomid/ torem on Monday. Blood test Friday.
Clomid's half-life is 5 days (for most people, officially says 5-7 days), so you still had some of it, and toremifene has simlar half-life (dont know exactly), so your blood test is still influenced by those two to certain (unknown) degree, so in that respect blood results are not brilliant. Personally I would continue with clomid for a while in hope things will improve, then at some point taper off, take 8 weeks off and then do blood test again.
Shit nate, i probably missed quite a bit of the discussion here and this may be an uninformed question, but how the hell is your test in the 500s AFTER improving? Aren't you 21 or something?
I pct'd. Knew that my pct didn't do all that much, and my levels tested. Came out to 230......took some Clomid/ torem.....and then it came out to 563....in all
Honesty tho, my torem is only 30mg/ ml and I was often using only half a ml...so maybe using regular torem doses would be good?? Like doing the 120, 90, 60 taper?
I'm excited with the idea of PCTing on Torem, but worry a lot about legitimacy. With your results, I would maybe try to just run Clomid, since you're a lot more likely to get quality stuff... just a thought i guess, what do I know...
It is somewhat concerning to see such low numbers on a young individual like yourself, specially since they may not really be true/stable if you were still on the SERMs
563 is super weak if on serms
If you dosed properly you should be 1000+ on serms
nate, did you get LH and FSH on your last BW?
I think since you aren't having kids ever I would retest after a month or 2 off everything and consider TRT if below 500
You need LH and FSH tests to see if your serms worked
Torem always perked me back up. I think your source is more important. That dragon's is solid, perked me back up each time, and fast. I think tript and torem would be a good combo.
I've always had good luck with Torem. Took my test level back to 900 in 5 weeks using Torem at 120, 90, 60 with the old PP PCT stack.
the torem is most definitely legit. to anyone that bought from skyward.....you should know the quality. top notch, so on that front, there's nothing to worry about. and yeah. this sucks that on serms i only got 563. I've been saying it for a few years that I always expected to go on trt cuz of harsh hormonal use at a young age, 2 Superdrone cycles at 17, so I guess I can't say I'm surprised, just bummed it may actually be this early in life is all.
and no. sadly i forgot to get lh and fsh tested.
Yeah. That's what I'm thinking man. Should I just go off? Get a blood test that shows I'm low and then go on TRT?
I would get numbers first and go from there. While you're at it, maybe check on the adrenals, though Jel is the man to tell you what to look for. Do you have low T symptoms? How's the size on them ballz?
Not to sound preachy, but through this assessment period, I would cut pot and other substances as well, just to make sure you have a good clear reading.
You can either wait for another 8 weeks (6 would probably be enough) retest and than take it from there, or you can go bit longer on clomid- than take 8 weeks off and retest, if I remeber correctly previously you had very low test levels because AAS but eventually after long time and effort it went to 500-ish? so it seems that you HPTA is notoriously slow to recover, but there is still chance- on other hand considering your test levels before cycle was not great so its unlikely that you'll go over low 500's, but lot of folks feel good enough on 500 ng/dl.
Now regarding SERMS, if you used higher dosages of SERMS you might have had higher test levels on blood test- but that does not mean that your recovery would be better, in other words if you used lower dosages than your 560 ng/dl may go down to 500 ng/dl if you used high dosages you might have tested 800 ng/dl but you would still end up with 500 ng/dl.
A lot depends from pituary, for example very often for guys with congenital hypogonadism is that when they are on SERMS they get good numbers but as soon as they stop using it their levels drop like a rock.
Gonna go off of em and retest.
Been using 12.5mg Clomid. 15-30mg torem, toco caps, and arimistane at 100mgs for estro control. Was using every other day for a month and a half and then dropped for e3-4 day for the last half month.
So SERM's levels in your system were not that high, so your test level may not be as high as they might have been, which also means that it may not drop a lot. And you could do blood test in 6 weeks.
What were your last results before cycle?
684
Yeah. I'm gonna be extra on point with my diet. Saturated fats, sunlight, green smoothies, celery, broccoli, garlic, ginger, onions, etc. Foods that show extra influence on hormones. I'm also gonna make sure to keep with excercise, and try and eliminate more environmental toxins like plastic water bottles and after a month to a month and a half, see where I'm at totally on my own with doing everything right. Good sleep, the works. I'm not giving up just yet, I mean, I can find positives to going on TRT, but if I can avoid it, I much rather would.
yeah, I dont think that things are that bad- even in past you had much worse results but they gradually improved, including your thyroid- and beleive it can happen again given, sometimes recovery takes long time- much longer than people think. And its not all just in number- personally I had "boosted" my tt levels to 800 and something and did not feel great, and I had it at around 680 and felt great, it all depends from lot of circumstances and balance of other hormones, it is how we feel that is important not numbers.
So new update, and its rather strange. I haven't been good about diet. Ive been eating like once a day. Not great about sleep. I'm more stressed out than ever 9+ hour stressful days with no lunches. Blue Cross and other insurance companies fucking over our business left and right and i haven't been getting sunlight, I've been drinking a decent amount of beer here and there, smoking weed, using some xanax here and there for stress and yet....
After not being on clomid, torem, exem, maca or anything else that could influence my hormones for over a month.....
My test results came back stellar. Eerily stellar.
Total T- 734! Highest I've EVER had.
Free T- 171! More than 4 times my previous highest and us even so high its out of range.
E2-Pending
Cortisol- 17.9- Also very good
SHGB- 28 -Also very good. Right in the middle.
DHT -Pending
LH- 3.1-Also quite good
FSH- <0.7- Its been like this on at least 3 different tests
WTF? I feel shitty. I'm gonna say Lyme disease cuz even when i go through a string string of eating better and getting quality sleep, I feel better but nothing to crow home about.
FOR SURE my Lyme has been acting up tho. Muscle Spasms. Bumping into corners of walls completely sober. And i don't mean grazing, i mean my depth perception is so bad i shoulder check walls. Numbness sensations in multiple parts of my body like an MS patient. The sensation a bug is crawling on me on different parts of my body and there's nothing there. Having moments where i just feel literally insane like i'm losing my mind. Memory has been shitty. Sometimes i get sharp shooting pain in random parts of my body or the sensation like someone just stabbed me with a needle.
Stress makes lyme worse. That's fact. So i know that's partially what's going on, I just didn't expect these tests results to be so stellar after not being on SERMS or anything for over a month. Kinda fascinating. These are the highest my testosterone has been.
Here's the only thing I've taken. Cialis. a few different times. 12.5mg once or twice, but it was weeks bfor i had the blood test and i doubt 12mg's of cilais is gonna skyrocket my free test and total testosterone.
We're gonna retest in a month to make sure they didn't mess up my bw with someone else's.
What a fukin trip huh?
Well,try adding some magnesium. And multivitamins.
I dont think these symptoms are from lyme- maybe your ferritin (iron) is low, or thyroid hormones are getting depleted. There are other possibilities.
Try to reduce stress, improve your diet a bit- eat more than once a day.
Regarding hormones- they are probably not settled yet.