Not trying to throw shade at Joe. You’re almost done bro, so surprised to hear YOU say that!
The only long and hard road is messing with your hormones and searching for a silver bullet. TMO for life babyyy
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I agree with turnover25, the protocol works and everyone knows that, but it would be even better if we focus on why it is working anf try to enhance the process which will probably lead to faster recoveries, at least it makes sense
Also joe i wanted to ask for your advice if someone like me whom was already on TRT before using Finastride and got PFS can actually get allopregnanolone and progesterone metabolites high enough to recover?
I jumped on TRT because my testosterone was already pretty low before Finastride, and it’s been over two years on TRT without using hcg son I don’t think it’s even possible for me to kickstart my natural production at this poin anymore, and when i hear people say you need to raise your natural hormone stream to recover makes me feel like im a lost case if I might say.
Its a complex situation.
Looks like you have a method that works.
And I will try it out if you have positive results.
BUT, I'm hoping that consistently keeping cortisol healthy, lowering inflammation, good sleep, optimal nutrition, etc; will slowly "reignite" many or all functions.
The thing is, how long would that take, if its possible? I'd imagine it would require years of discipline to change biochemical flow?
To me the overall dysfunction was caused by
excess stress on the body via heightened estrogen, insomnia and high cortisol = total biological shutdown. So putting these in proper order for several years should do the trick.
Do you think restoring GABA might do the trick for tinnitus?
Thank you for the insight man
Thing is I can’t really tell if my testes can be kickstarted again without trying, I jumped on TRT because low testosterone and I never used steroids before that and I actually felt amazing on TRT alone although in theory i had no allopregnanolone and it confuses me how the lack of allopreg is causing these issues when i felt great on TRT beforehand even with crushed allo if you know what i mean.
Question is if i never had primary hypogonadism before using TRT and it was only a matter of low testosterone due to lifestyle choices is it possible that i can get my natural production to normal ranges even after two years on TRT? i know you’re not a doctor and im only asking for opinions.
Do you have experience taking butyrates?
Dosage? How long should be taken?
Ok to take with other supplements?
Possible reactions to expect?
Taking butyrates is like Russian roulette in PFS from my knowledge. When I was recovering, people suggested them and some improved and it was a great help and some crashed miserably.
Can I ask why you're considering GH analogues, butyrates and other things not on the protocol but seem adverse to running R-Andro? Seems sort of odd, honestly.
I was referring to Hulk quoted there, not questioning you - I trust you've done your research and have based approaches off copious labs. As you said, you're informed. And I agree, people aren't on PH. I also know people personally (or as personal as you can through a forum PM, of course) that I worked with on Hack Stasis that had bad results with butyrates. Not to the probably over-exaggerated point of the PH topics you referenced (that one topic is pretty.....eh I won't touch that), but nothing pleasant.
Either way, didn't notice at the time this was your log when replying to Hulk lol - so I apologize for jumping in there.
@JoeP26
Thanks for the info. You did your research 👍🏻
Could come in handy should I need it.
@Maxout777
I'm gonna try the PH soon and will continue to stick with the rest of protocol.
My hope is everything will recover in full with no need for extra things.
I go back and forth with a few ideas but its more for learning right now.
I would just assume that you can reverse the damage to your testes, since you have to try. It may take several additional years (on top of normal PFS recovery timeline) to slowly build them back up.
I’m not an expert on this, I’m just saying you should be willing to try to tackle this for 5 - 10 years if that’s what it takes. (I hope it only takes you several months, or a year.) Don’t just give up.
Dang. Reading this is getting me worried. I got on TRT to try to fix my symptoms and have been on for a little bit now. I hope this doesn't mean I'm screwed (I'm getting off with HCG next week)
Based on your TRT statement above, that would mean that the thousands of people on TRT would be experiencing symptoms of low progesterone and/or allo. How do you explain the no change in progesterone levels in the thousands upon thousands of TRT blood labs folks run?
Also, I heard you have a preference towards R-Andor cream. Do you mind sharing why over UH and which product you’re using? Haven’t seen a cream option?
Ah, okay. I personally never used TRT, and I’m not an expert on it.
Modern medicine can’t cure PFS, but the protocol can, so I figured it would be worth attempting to cure post steroid dysfunction with the protocol as well. Lots of guys with PFS had massively shrunken balls, which is supposedly permanent, yet they recovered from that in the protocol.
I would still urge someone in that situation to at least try the protocol rather than just give up. If there are a bunch of guys in that situation who tried the PFS protocol for years and made no progress, then that really sucks. I have no idea if they have or haven’t tried, though. I remember CD saying that if you used TRT for awhile it would take years longer to recover, but I have no idea whether he or you is right about whether it’s reversible.
I do agree that PFS guys should avoid TRT.
Yeah, the evidence I’ve seen is on this TRT Facebook group I’m a member of ran by medical professionals with 9k members. This exact scenario and question has come up a few times and the labs and symptoms just don’t show it to be true. My dad is on TRT and his progesterone is fine. I’m not sure what’s going on with the WhatsApp guy. I mean, it’d be fair to say that plummeting ones progesterone or allo would kill the point of TRT and the hundred million dollar industry that it is haha.
Appreciate the explanation on R-Andro. I’ve only done UH with no negatives other than some insomnia so it sounds like I might need to try R-Andro for my next cycle. Is this the cream everyone is talking about: https://www.ironmaglabs.com/product/...r-andro-cream/
Some are on HCG but most aren't. Yes, most docs are idiots relying on modern-day ranges, fortunately these guys know their shit and are looking at male optimization levels. Plummeting progesterone would cause serious alarm, plus nasty symptoms.
Ah, somehow missed this link, thank you! Stoked to try this later next month!
Is there a reason you went with MK and not Ipamorelin? Ipamorelin is known to be a bit more subtler but cleaner/more tolerable and doesn't mess with insulin. Working out is a HUGE factor for me but my muscle recovery declines pretty sharply off cycle so I'm exploring the idea of trying Ipamorelin to aid in that. The added sleep benefits along with increase workout recovery sounds great.
You haven't heard/seen issues with PFS recovering folks trying GH peptides or Ipamorelin?
Interesting stuff Joe.
Tbh my focus is 100% on the protocol and I'm not really looking for shortcuts, but if I can add small things to get rid of this damn tinnitus I'm interested.
If low GABA causes tinnitus, and low gaba can be reversed, then why do some people keep it even after recovery? Also, how long does it take to raise GABA by using such supplements? At some point with them the body reaches a permanent GABA baseline?
I trust the protocol will eventually heal my sexual sides, but tinnitus makes me doubt so much. I'd do anything to kill it
I have not personally researched them because they just weren't as common when I was struggling through pfs. I can tell you that you don't need them to recover, but could they be useful, I don't have an answer to that question. That's something somebody who is willing to take one for the team should do and report back. Fortunately I have no need to do this, but I probably would have tried it when I was putting the protocol together.
Just checking in Joe, how is everything going?
Congrats man keep it up, inspiring stuff
Also, interestingly enough I've heard many people claim they've recovered from PFS when they contracted COVID. This recovery lasted as long as they had COVID.
Leaves some food for thought.
Hi Joe, I read some times ago that your digestives issues were one of your remaining symptoms.
I think this plays a big role in my overall state. What were the things that help you the most regarding this if you don't mind ?