I hate to be "that guy" but guess who's back?? Check out his dreamy bedroom eyes in his avatar!!
How to run tren?!?! - AnabolicMinds.com
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I hate to be "that guy" but guess who's back?? Check out his dreamy bedroom eyes in his avatar!!
How to run tren?!?! - AnabolicMinds.com
its gonna be awesome
Ippy will kill himself when he tries to graduate to insulin.
Please stop giving this pond scum oxygen
Update:
I know that sounded harsh, but sometimes we just have to let natural selection run its course.
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His 1st post is unreal....He isn;t sure Test should be run with Tren? Dafuq? He wants to run Trwn for 10 weeks followed by Test for 10 weeks for a 20 week cycle......
It actually isn't that outrageous though (I didn't read his post, I am done caring, just basing this on your post). I personally am a fan of tren with little to no testosterone. Sides are virtually non existent (although I seem to see libido loss even with mast/tren when test isnt present), and results are still excellent in terms of composition changes (size would be better with test, imo). Many come out of tren cycles blasting high doses of test. The body is primed to handle growth really well after a long cut on tren, and many will see quick good results.
The fact of the matter is though, he can run whatever he wants and probably come out looking the same, so I am speaking in generalities. If I were to design a cycle for him, it would be chicken breast, rice, and possibly xanax.
What concerns me just as much is the shocking ignorance of the replies - "you need caber to avoid lactating nipples and progesterone gyno bro" etc etc etc. I've run a few tren cycles, never used any dopamine agonist BUT have kept estrogen in line and my prolactin has never been elevated now have I ever had lactating nipples!! Ever!
I really wish someone would explain under what endocrinological mechanism a dopamine receptor agonist (which are used medically to reduce prolactin levels) can lower progesterone. If you want help with progesterone then surely ru186 aka mifepristone aka the abortion pill which is a selective progesterone receptor modulator would be the thing to take (note I do not recommend anyone other than a female desiring an abortion to take it!) I would post this reply on am but I fear I'd be taken for a troll such is the strength of bro lore, tren and caber.
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say he's going to get gyno.
I tend to either use little or no test with tren. I reason this way because:
1) tren is the most anabolic substance which is easily available and practical to run so why clog up your androgen receptors with something less anabolic like test.
2) test isn't a great anabolic unless you are all about the number on the scale and don't care what the gain consists of. It gives water retention but not big muscle gains and a study has shown you need at least 600mg a week for test to be anabolic. Ok I know this point is controversial but I've said it and personally I'd rather use test at a low dose for "feel good factor" and leave the anabolic work to something better.
3) test can convert to estrogen at up to 100% and tren already has an ability to raise estrogen solo despite it not aromatising so why increase your risk of gyno when the corresponding muscle gain is poor (see 2 above).
4) personally my goals aren't compatible with high test usage. I want muscle mass with no bloat and little body fat. Test gives big bloat, little muscle (unless used at high doses for a long time which then increases gyno risk and sides etc) and neither positive or negative effect on fat for me.
What a troll!
Great posts Infamy & H2S, as always I learn so much here!
he's fuckin Huge!!!!!! omg omg omg
Some things will never change.
I hope he is, after all the ph cycles he's ran and his last massive 4 months of test he should be a shredded 175lbs.
I feel bad for the kid, with all the fluctuations he puts his body and emotions through at this point he is a perfect candidate blast and cruise. At least when his hormones stabilize and he can think clearly he will be able to see he has been spinning his wheels and isgoing nowhere.
His avi is a great shot of his elbows and if I recall correctly he was a shredded 175 a year and a half ago. Is he a shreddeder 175 now?
lmao, shredded elbows, that's a gymnast pose don't you know
Curious, to play devils advocate, obviously those guys are idiots and confusing prolactin with progesterone because tren is a progestin. But it's also true that progestins cause more prolactin issues than say, test.
Why would I end up with lactating nipples after my cycle of test, even when I was already back on an AI and serm, and had no improvement (except on masteron which i didnt want to stay on due to suppression) until adding pramipexole?
Progesterone doesn't raise prolactin but high estrogen can. If I remember rightly your estrogen had gotten too high (otherwise you wouldn't have had gyno) and so you prolactin was probably elevated too. If you were constantly checking for gyno and messing with your nipples that just makes it a whole load worse. Not saying you we're messing with them but if you were.
Tren is a progestin and that means it has good affinity for the progesterone receptor. Progesterone role in gyno is to enhance estrogens effect on breast tissue growth and lowering prolactin will do nothing to stop progesterone in doing this. Lowering estrogen on the other hand will as progesterone will not grow breast tissue in isolation.
Even if you agree with none of the above (feel free to double check my facts by the way I won't be offended), then you would agree that caber only lowers prolactin and does not lower estrogen or block the effects of progersteone I assume? If so then you will see that all you are doing by taking something to lower prolactin is to treat the symptom and not the cause (which in this case is out if control estrogen enhanced by progesterone). So again we come back to my point that the best and only really way to deal with tren is deal with estrogen either by an AI a serm or both as it is impractical to stop the progesterone effects from tren unless we want the horrible sides of mifepristone.
haha, i agree with most of what you said. but quickly after gyno flared, i got on adex at 1 mg a day and ralox at ~100 a day.. nothing happened but libido dropped quick.
maybe you're right about gyno being agitated by high estro levels... but i then moved to letro asap and still no improvement except for when on masteron (which i've read can downregulate prolactin), and then got even more low estro sides.
still, with no improvement i decided to use prami and within days sensitivity and size had reduced, and continue to do so now at a dose of .5 mg daily. why would the gyno still respond to nothing but prami even after estro was totally tanked?
I think you are talking about something different here. I've been discussing gyno prevention and you are talking about gyno reversal. For the latter a dopamine agonist along with an ai and Serm may be needed if prolactin has been elevated. For the former, you don't need to lower prolactin if its not elevated and you are taking the necessary precautions to stop it being elevated.
In your specific case, it's difficult to know exactly what went on without bloodwork but I would speculate that you probably let your estrogen get rampantly high for too long. Breast tissue started to grow and the high estrogen elevated prolactin possibly combined with messing with your nipples checking for gyno (it can be a vicious circle!) therefore you needed an AI and serm to reduce and block the estrogen but also something to bring the prolactin back in line.
By the way, if your Letro and raloxifene wasn't pharma, there is also the possibility it was bunk.
And as far as I'm aware masteron has no effect on prolactin and less impact on estrogen than most people give it credit for.
I'll post something related, maybe hector can even benefit from it. I've done some low test, mast and low tren ace cycles, short ones cause I get lumps and pre gyno symptoms. Ace is at only 50mg eod, 125 mast eod and test e 200/week. I've kept the times on the tren down to a few weeks as I can't get on top of the sore titty syndrome so I will do 3 weeks on, 4 off, for a period of maybe 15-20 weeks or so and then go to trt levels. So I tried 3 different kinds of letro, two with no success and no joint stiffness, but the third was working for sure as it dried me right out, very noticeable in the joints. However, even at 2.5 letro ed I couldn't prevent the pre-gyno from showing up, nor could I get it to subside. Various times I tried different things, caber, aromasin combine with the letro, and wasn't able to get the gyno to budge, only thing that would work was to come off the tren for a month, lump shrinks and all other symptoms disappear. Only think I've never tired was the prami, or I know a guy who swears by nolva for the tren gyno, but never tried either. So a low dose tren and certainly low estrogen and still symptoms for me. Enough to jump off the tren train as soon as I use up all that's left.
Out of interest od how much hcg do you use (if any).
I've had gyno too from every tren run. No leaking nipples and no elevation in prolactin. Letro helps but can't stop it which makes me wonder whether tren uses another mechanism to create estrogen aside from the aromatise enzyme (eg fat-> estrone -> estradiol). I know tren can increase estrogen solo as cattle studies have shown it so I'm guessing that may be the mechanism it uses. If that is the case the only real way to stop the gyno is a SERM whilst using tren.
I also wonder whether excessive hcg use might contribute too.
no, no hcg use at all. so maybe some clomid when I can get my hands on some then to see if it helps, I had no leaky nipples either
To o-Ryan
Personally I don't think it would be but others disagree. I don't like the way it lowers shbg which can exacerbate estrogen problems.
If you don't want letro then I'd rather use arimidex.
As I said though I've speculated a lot here so I couldn't pretend that the above is definitely how tren raises estrogen.
The only thing we can be sure of is that a SERM like ralox will prevent gyno but care would need to be taken after the cycle as you would need to run it right through pct with your pct SERM (like clomid) and pct ai otherwise if you stop it as soon as your cycle finishes all that estrogen is still in your system but now it is able to give you gyno as the estrogen receptors in the breast become free.
Interesting so it doesn't look like tren gyno was caused by hcg which only really leaves tren itself is capable of raising estrogen independent of the aromatise enzyme
I'd use ralox rather than clomid as its better at the breast than clomid. Nolva would be another choice but I hate that particular garbage SERM so I would use it.
so letro/ralox during, and into pct ralox, ai, and clomid... Would you recommend a longer, say 2-3 month pct? I just finished up a 2.5 month long pct, and it's the best one I've had yet (with bloods to prove). Well I'm not quite done, I have 2 more weeks of the ai.
didn't we have a ralox source thread going?
Depends what you are running. If its tren e at say 400mg a week I tend to give it at least 8 weeks clearance time followed by 2 months pct. during clearance I continue to use hcg. Tren is so suppressive even a tiny amount will stop natural recovery.
That's probably the longest pct needed for any of the usual steroids. Nebido would be longer but only because of the ridiculous half life of the ester but most people don't use that anyway.
I think I saw ippy planning a Nebido/pharma grade bac h2o/proviron 3.5 week bulker with a 7 day oral whinny kicker
this is my exact formula for no issues, 12.5mg aromasin, and hcg about 1000iu wk, split, altho i tend to miss days tbh and take smaller amounts sometimes...........not even a tweak of the nipple........it seems its also a user to user thing as well with regards to tren and the gyno............ill start to see minor symptoms when, and only when, i jack up the test, and even then nothing to worry bout, admittedly the ups and downs of using suspension sporatically (4daya a week), caused symptoms but they went once i hadnt used the susp in a week or so
i have a lot of friends who ran tren and never got gyno, but i see a lot of guys on the forums reporting gyno with tren. At first i thought aromasin would prevent gyno, but i think that tren would cause gyno due to the progestional activity, this is also one of the reasons i want to bridge test e with masteron and then go into PCT, at least before i start my pct if i got gyno i can correct it with a strong androgen and maybe reverse it with letro if required. I am also learning here. I refuse to take a serm while on cycle. also i am not sure if i should use prami or caber and i think ill pass, ive heard these stuff is harmful, i was talking to a farmacologist and he said that caber might not be needed because caber acts agains prolactin, not progestins. So i think ill better do this to prevent gyno
keep letro and aromasin on hand just in case
keep test at no more than 150 mgs (whatever the ester is but i think ill go with enanthate)
i will not use dopamine receptor agonist ( i have the belief that this drug is only useful to prevent the mindf..k that tren can cause)
i will keep my carbs low and once i stop tren i will up my mast dose, if for whatever reason i get gyno i will do my best to correct it while i am still on the test and mast bridge.
all in all i think i have it covered. if you have more suggestions to my plan please tell me, in this case i ill keep tren no more than 75 mgs for the first 10 weeks.
I would have caber or prami on hand. And stick to 50 mg Ed or less on the tren.
Sounds like you're good to go, get started already!