Epi/11oxo cycle

Im thinking about doing a recomp cycle in the future, my PH experience is that I havent ran anything in 3 years. I had great results with a solo 1-T cycle, later that year I started a 1-T Tren cycle and stopped after 2 weeks because of the lethargy, insomnia, and hair shedding kinda freaked me out.

No prior experience with either of these but from what Ive read, its considered a great stack for the goals I have. Heres how I was going to have it ran:

11oxo- 300/300/450/450/450/450
Epi- 0/0/30/30/45/45

PCT:
Torem- not 100% sure how to dose due to the sponsor on here having it be at 20 per pill, Maybe do 100/80/60/40/20 with the 100/80 being the first week?
AD-3 PCT
Cycle Armor
Sustain Alpha
TCF-1

Daily staples:
Fish oil
toco-sorb
CLA
con-cret
BCAAs

Ive also got Dermacrine and IML Epi- Andro Rx on hand already, but my only worry is the greater risk of hair shedding, Iv always just had naturally fine hair even as a kid so thats why Ive skipped the Epi-Andro for now

Any feedback is appreciated

I'd run EPI for 5 weeks then high dose 11-oxo for 2 weeks, then PCT.

EPI, Stano and 11-oxo all have the potential to dry your joints out, which is why I wouldn't use them together.
High dose (1000mgs ed) 11-oxo is anabolic enough to help you keep your gains, and cut up a bit.

Ya I had read about their ability to dry out the joints I was just kinda hoping to run the 11-oxo at a low dose with the epi to help with cortisol control, so even at lower dosage it still has the drying effect?

I like your idea of higher 11oxo dosage at the end of epi to help retain gains, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks markam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hardestgainer

Ya I had read about their ability to dry out the joints I was just kinda hoping to run the 11-oxo at a low dose with the epi to help with cortisol control, so even at lower dosage it still has the drying effect?

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Possibly not, but you don't need it while running EPI imo. Best use the 11-oxo to lower your cortisol before PCT. Iron Legion XI-KT transdermal is probably the best 11-keto product. I've used it at 2ml ed (usual dose is 1ml, but that is too low). You'll get 15 days from one bottle at 2ml ed.

thanks markam, do you think adding the derm would bring a good benefit? Im guessing the epi andro would make things worse on the joints


Anyone think this PCT would be too over the top?

Just need to clear up any confusion.
You are talking about running Epi as in Epistane or Havoc?
Dermacrine and Epi (Havoc) is a classic stack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markam

Just need to clear up any confusion.
You are talking about running Epi as in Epistane or Havoc?
Dermacrine and Epi (Havoc) is a classic stack.

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Ya, probably should have clarified since I mentioned I also has IML epi andro RX.

But yes, Im wanting to run Epistane, I had read some people had added dermacrine to try and help with the joints and Ive already got a bottle (from BPS not the original stuff from PP)

If you haven't got the epi yet, you may want to checkout Iron legion Triumphalis.
I have used it as a alternative to Epistane and I prefer it, (less sides, better results).
It's not as dry as Epistane and I've run it with IML Epi-stane and also Androhard, no problems.

Thanks Ill go take a look at it, Im not dead set on only using stuff I mentioned, thats just stuff I bought because I figured Id probably want it some day(got it from PN when they first released it). Less sides is always good, Ive seen a couple guys with really bad gyno so thats why epistane was what I originally went to. I know there's the risk with any, but minimizing them is key to me.


Spent the last couple hours reading up on the Triumphalis, really looks like a solid product with good feedback from the guys on here.

Alright, I decided Triumphalis seems liks the better option so here's how it'd look

Triumphalis- 45/45/60/60/60/60
11oxo- still not sure if I should just run it somewhere around 600 the whole time, or 1000 weeks 7-8

PCT:
Torem- 100-80/60/40/20
AD-3 PCT- for the AI, Ive read a lot of conflicting info. Some run it week 1, others wait till week 3
Cycle Armor
Sustain Alpha- run first 4 weeks of pct
PP TCF1- 12 days on 12 off then another 12 on

3 caps of Triumphalis is plenty Imo Anteaus didn't underdose this one!
I didn't get much from 11-0xo, just that it allows you to lower cortisol before PCT and is only slightly anabolic (compared to Triumphalis).
Ideally I'd stack triumphalis with 4 caps Andromass and bump AM up to 6 for two weeks after Triumphalis and then run 11-oxo for 2-3 weeks overlapping one week with AM. Although AM isn't available you could probably use Forerunner labs products to a similar end.
Sorry if that's not very clear, but I know what I mean, Lol.

U want a good AI.....get El1MINATE by olympus labs. It's the same ingredient, arimistane, as original erase and works phenomenally. Fuck ad 3

FYI. I'm running 11oxo solo right now just to get a feel for it. Just a quick 4-5 weeks. I went up to just over 1.2g/day and I was soaking the bed sheets. Shit raises your core temp. I've settled somewhere around 700-800mg/day and the heat isn't so bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markam

3 caps of Triumphalis is plenty Imo Anteaus didn't underdose this one!
I didn't get much from 11-0xo, just that it allows you to lower cortisol before PCT and is only slightly anabolic (compared to Triumphalis).
Ideally I'd stack triumphalis with 4 caps Andromass and bump AM up to 6 for two weeks after Triumphalis and then run 11-oxo for 2-3 weeks overlapping one week with AM. Although AM isn't available you could probably use Forerunner labs products to a similar end.
Sorry if that's not very clear, but I know what I mean, Lol.

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haha thanks, Im pretty sure I understood how you were saying it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nate3993

U want a good AI.....get El1MINATE by olympus labs. It's the same ingredient, arimistane, as original erase and works phenomenally. Fuck ad 3

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Ive read a lot of good stuff about the ad3. Eliminate looks good too, they recommend 100mg for 4 weeks, seems kinda high. but would be easier to taper compared to ad3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

FYI. I'm running 11oxo solo right now just to get a feel for it. Just a quick 4-5 weeks. I went up to just over 1.2g/day and I was soaking the bed sheets. Shit raises your core temp. I've settled somewhere around 700-800mg/day and the heat isn't so bad.

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interesting, 1.2g is a pretty high dose though. Did you have a similar effect with tren(assuming you've ran it) or trouble sleeping too? I know back when I just ran a standard dose of tren I was waking up every couple hours in a pool of sweat.


thanks for all the feedback

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hardestgainer

interesting, 1.2g is a pretty high dose though. Did you have a similar effect with tren(assuming you've ran it) or trouble sleeping too? I know back when I just ran a standard dose of tren I was waking up every couple hours in a pool of sweat.

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Never ran Tren. I'm going out on a limb trying this stuff...lol. Only things I've run before were all andro series...Mass, Hard, Drive and Hard v1. From what I've heard about tren, I don't think I'd want to run it. From what I understand it either treats you good or it doesn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Never ran Tren. I'm going out on a limb trying this stuff...lol. Only things I've run before were all andro series...Mass, Hard, Drive and Hard v1. From what I've heard about tren, I don't think I'd want to run it. From what I understand it either treats you good or it doesn't.

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Ya, I stuck to just PP stuff too lol. With the few weeks I was on tren I was leaning out quick and was getting more vascular everyday, but also was feeling the full effects of basically every side reported.