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I'm searching and searching, and can't find the difference between these two:
3-beta-undecanoyloxy-5-alpha-androstan-17-one
3b-hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol, 17-one
The top one was the main prohormone in AHv3. The second one is the main ingredient in Epi-andro hard. They don't look the same nor do they feel the same to me.
Also, do any of you guys remember what the main ingredient in androhard V1 was?
1st is esterified epiandrosterone
2nd is epiandrosterone
AHv1 was epiandrosterone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
Cd ive only taken ahv3
im on epi andro right now............
right now i like it more than ahv3............just like Scope75 told me
How much you on and what brand?
But it was a different version of epiandrosterone, no? As in it "read" different from the way that second one reads. I can't find the actual label for ahv1. It doesn't feel like androhard v1. To me it feels closer to AHv2 which didn't really do it for me. Actually....that's an understatement. AHv2 made me feel like shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by testosteronet
I've been playing with the dose of Epi-androhard/rx for the past couple days and can't seem to get where I want to go. Started out 2/2/2 for a few...felt...meh. Then switched it up to 3/3. Taking 3 at once kind of got me down in the dumps. Thing is, libido is good and so are all the physical aspects of increased DHT. But mentally this stuff isn't making me feel that great. Mentally it's getting me like AHv2. Tired head, sluggish thoughts.....not physically tired, just mentally drained kind of feeling.
I'm bummed. I got six bottles......
I've ordered the Alpha hard from Forerunner. They use both Beta and alpha isomers. I guess well see.
The label for V1 just read Androsterone, but was later confirmed by Eric to actually be Epiandrosterone. They didn't use actual chemical names until V2, just read Androsterone. V2 was esterified Androsterone. V3 was esterified Epiandrosterone and esterified Androsterone, 2 different versions with different dosage variations.
The esterified version would read something like 3a-enanthoxy-5a-androstan-17-one and 3b-enanthoxy-5a-androstan-17-one.
Now we're getting somewhere. I'm not too up on my chemistry.Quote:
Originally Posted by testosteronet
So then, do you know what the chemical difference is between AHv1 and epi-androhard/rx? Because they both have a different feel to me.
I was wrong cd, AHv1 did have a chemical name on it. It read 5a-androstan-3b-ol-17-one. Now, since Eric said it was epiandrosterone instead of androsterone, I would think the correct chemical name would be 5b-androstan-3b-ol-17-one. Is there any difference between 5b-androstan-3b-ol-17-one and 3b-hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol, 17-one or is it the same thing written different ways? I think it's the same thing written different ways. If it were the exact same chemical, you would expect it to feel the same, I hear ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
I vaguely remember AHv1 having the chemical name on it, which is why i was trying to find the label, so thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by testosteronet
So then :5a-androstan-3b-ol-17-one is the same as
3b-hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol, 17-one
That doesn't seem right. They certainly don't feel the same, which to me means everything. If it was the same then why write it different?
I'm just trying to nail down what works for me and what doesn't. It's a bummer buying these different products and not having them work the same as AH.
I've used all versions of AH and prefer IML Epi-stane Andro. 3 caps x2 ed or 2x3 was great. AH works really well as it's a slow release formula and highly dosed, but I do like the way the IML Epi-stane Andro kicks in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
However, if you want to do something totally different, Olympic labs Tr3st, Tr3n, Epistane make an absolutely fantastic stack! Best described as feeling 'Immense':)
Currently running Trest Ace with Celtitren and 30 mg Trestobol for a PW.
Base is AM and AH . I love AH!!
Loving it so far.
So between these two:
5a-androstan-3b-ol-17-one
3b-hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol, 17-one
The difference comes down to 5a & 3b hydroxy. After some searching, they are in fact, different molecules
3b hydroxy = 3b-Hydroxy-5b-androstan-17-one | C19H30O2 | ChemSpider
5a- androstan = 5a-androstane | C19H32 | ChemSpider
This would explain why they feel completely different to me.
So this stuff has the old AHv1 in it. Not sure of the ratio to the other active.
Epi-1-Test | Advanced Muscle Science
Pump the brakes before we get way off track here.
Ok so Androstane's
Androstane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Are the core of DHT based hormones without ketones or Hydroxy functions.
For all intensive purposes never worry about 5b androstanes, they don't do anything we are concerned with.
For the 2 step precursors to DHT we have
Androsterone which chemically has a 3 alpha hydroxy function and a 17 ketone function.
Epiandrosterone which chemically has a 3 beta hydroxy function and 17 ketone function. Also this is sometimes called Stano.
If you have a estered compound, the ester is always attached to where the hydroxy function is so in active steroids that are estered it would be in the 17th position, in these it has to be in the 3 position because that is where the hydroxy function lies.
As for effectiveness I believe in theory the Epiandrosterone should be more effective due to the body's natural ability to want to convert DHEA. In actual application results may vary.