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What is the general consensus on it's effect on sleep?
I remember PP's version would have me sleeping like a rock due to the slight lethargy it caused. It also blew me up like a tick. I put on great size with their version.
If you guys were to recommend this prohormone, what would be your favorite?
I've tried 4 andro from from alpha gainz and it was pretty good. Also Super 4 andro from IML I also thought was good.
I think with 4-DHEA, topical is the way to go. I've taken it by capsule, sublingual, and transdermal and felt the most from topical administration. It's strange with the DHEA derivatives, some work fine oral and others just don't do much. For me, androsterone, epiandro, and nor-andro all work great oral while 4-Andro, 1-Andro, and 5-DHEA (Dermacrine) all work exponentially better when applied through the skin. I believe a lot of it has to do with delivery and dosage as well. But at the same time less is required from transdermal application vs oral route (200 mg of topical 4-DHEA can be felt but 200 mg of oral 4-DHEA will yield next to nothing).
As far as 4-DHEA specifically, when I personally take it as a transdermal I get all the "feel good" effects such as alpha male, mild aggression, slight euphoria, as well as the benefits of decent mass gains. Oral (with a good delivery system and/or high dosage) those all just seem dialed back if not noticeable at all but I do still get the benefit of some mass gains.
How was the Alpha Gainz version? I'm planning on trying that after my current stash of Primeval Labs 4-Androderm is used up.
I liked it. I actually felt it more strongly than I had with any of the more recent products.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong_Guy_
What is typically your sweet spot with 4 DHEA?
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I like to go 300-400 mg with transdermal, oral I have to go a bit more. Topical the effects, at least for me, are almost immediate. I get that slight euphoria rush and just feel great. Orally the effects tend to need to more subtly build over time. Seems to me like I read some information somewhere that specifically with 4-DHEA there is a "cap" as far as the amount you can actually physiologically benefit from and any more is essentially a waste. Basically more is not necessarily better.
Wow that's crazy... I feel a hundred milligrams when taken orally. I'm talking specifically about the four super Andro by IML. I couldn't imagine doing that in the five to six hundred milligram range
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I'm thinking my summer cycle is going to be 400 milligrams R Andro with three to four hundred milligrams 4 Andro by alpha Gainz.... also going to run epic with the hormones
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Yeah I tend to have to run a on the higher side it seems lol. I ran a similar cycle, R-Andro 600 mg and Topical 4-DHEA at 300 mg last year, it was a great cycle, well rounded.
How long did you run that for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong_Guy_
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It was a longer cycle, I think around 11 or 12 weeks if I remember correctly. Anymore I tend to cycle the andros around 10-12 weeks. Back in the primordial performance days I usually kept it around 8 weeks if nothing else just for cost. These compounds are very mild from my experience and gains are slow but steady it seems so the longer the better I think (within reason). Also, for what it's worth, I always utilize just natty OTC PCTs, never had any issues with recovery. I like to do a couple longer cycles per year rather than yo-yoing short cycles and PCTs over and over.
Running this compound for the first time starting Tuesday. I'm really looking forward to this stuff after reading all of your experiences on this topic.
I second everything you say here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong_Guy_
They are most definitely mild, yet still effective. I've actually felt like I could have went without a PCT for most of my cycles. I never would of course, but I felt that I could have, easily.
We pretty much do the same thing, except for dosages. I get results with much smaller ones. But I typically run one summer cycle for 12 weeks (June-Aug.) and then I'll do a winter cycle from Dec.- Feb. , again, usually 10 weeks or so, maybe more.
I must say, you've peaked my curiosity with the dosages now....lol. I may play around with them a little more during this up coming cycle.
You should really like it. Remind me again, are you going oral or Transdermal on the 4 DHEA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxout777
Oral, Super 4 Andro from IML.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
How have you decided to dose the two together?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxout777
400mg of each, every day. 200 am, 200 pm. Considering doing 400 mg 4 Andro and 600mg R Andro and trying it too. Who knows....Gonna start at 400 each though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
It's gonna be a great cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxout777
When I first delved into the idea of utilizing exogenous hormones I was very cautious, extremely cautious in fact. That is one thing that attracted me so much to the androseries and PP. All the research, citations and testimony backing what they were putting out. And most importantly, that these supplements are largely safe and provided generous effects, with very little negative side effects. It was the most "natural" way to gain good sustainable enhancement beyond what I may have been able to accomplish on my own. I have a chuckle about it now, but even with all the research and support provided by PP, I was still nervous as hell when I decided to give the androseries a go. The DHEA derivatives have taken a lot of flak from some people over the years because they may not be as potent as various designers or SARMS that have come around and gone, but to me safety is of the utmost importance here. You may be able to blow up on methyls but in my eyes, what good is that when you can only cycle for 5 or 6 weeks max? And what kind of damage could you possibly be doing to your body for a few extra pounds of muscle? Also, the quicker and bigger the gains, the quicker they tend to be lost. I have only tried these types of supplements outside of the DHEA based ones twice, once was epistane, the other was ostarine, both times my body seemed to reject them and I began to have horrible sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
Back to my original point, I dose this high because I feel safe doing it. Through about 7 years of trial and error (when I first began using hormonal supplements), I have found how far I can push things, what is a good long term dosage, but also when it's time to dial it back or go off for a while.
I was the same EXACT way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong_Guy_
If it wasn't for my unfortunate experience with PFS I would have never considered running hormones. PP made it not only safe, but effective. And damn, do I still miss them.....lol.
I remember being like a kid in a candy store on their website, reading all of the different write ups for the different products. I haven't been able to replicate that feeling with any other company since.
That is precisely what I loved about them. SAFETY!! and their shit worked....the best in my experience. Eric was a borderline genius with these compounds IMO.
I'm glad I get results with lower doses but now I'm ready to push it a little bit...lol. I know I can do so safely and without any negatives.
Speaking of negatives, I was the same way with other compounds. I too think the DHEA derivatives get a bad rap. But just like you said, what is the point of blowing up quickly when you KNOW you're going to lose it all within a matter of a few weeks when you come off?
I tried running their turinabol once and I made it to five days.....I felt toxic, sick. Methyls have no place in my arsenal as I like to stay as natural as I possibly can. DHEA hits the nail on the head everytime for me. I don't understand why some guys would risk their overall health for a few more pounds of muscle.
Even with the SARMS...I had weird side effects that made me question why I was even bothering.
I think you would like the 4 Andro TD from Alpha Gainz. It has great reviews as being one of the best transdermal versions of that hormone.
I think I'm going to try running it at 300 to start and then I'll go up to 400-500 after a week or so. Running it along side 400mg of R andro I'll have no problems with Estrogen conversion. My estrogen runs a little low anyway, so i'm not worried about it in the least bit.
I'm curious to see how big I can get myself with a 12 week run. I'm going to have to have pictures taken for my website so I'm going to end up doing that midway through my cycle.
All of this talk is making me want to run my summer cycle NOW.....lol.
Hey, with me being a pfs sufferer myself, if I stack 4andro with the R andro, would I be better off than just running R-andro as a stand-alone?
Better off is a relative term. it's just....different.Quote:
Originally Posted by The battler
You'll have better gains and feel much better with the two stacked.
I always like for people to run the R andro first to get a feel for exogenous hormones before jumping into stacking prohormones.
Regardless, they are very safe.