PFS = Adrenal Fatigue

hey everyone so after recovering from PFS I'm starting to think that it's pretty much severe adrenal fatigue

check out Dr. Lams content on youtube. Essentially he describes the healing process as akin to that.

When we're fatigued the body starts pulling from reserves hence things like hair loss, lack of vigor, and eventually scary thing like cancer.

So key piece to healing is a lot of rest. I'd stay away from stims as much as possible like coffee, nicotine, and harder stuff too of course because it artificially pulls out the bodies reserves to give that great feeling of energy that it gives.

I was starting to have energy issues at around 25 because I abused caffeine which is imo now a hardcore drug which i'm still somewhat addicted. Whenever I go off it for a prolonged time I start to notice my hair, skin gets much better and sleep way better but to be honest I'm still really far from complete rejuvination so I get sucked into drinking it again.

New strategy I have is to just use it maybe once a week in order to keep a sex life going, gym, songwriting etc so when my vigor is back 100% without it I'll have a good habit base to fall back on.

After I recovered from PFS I partied like a rockstar drugs etc. so got myself similar hole but nowhere near as bad as PFS because I respect my body and have rest days.

Will be very enlightening because when we actually add this angle to PFS recovery it will certainly speed things up. I think most PFS guys are type A personalities and like to get shit done. Our minds are too strong for our own good but the hardest thing is to just let ourselves just relax and let our bodies heal.

I tried to not overpost post recovery because 1) hell I was having way too much fun and 2) I didn't muddy up the forums too much because imo people should be focusing on CDnuts posts and maxouts posts and try not to overcomplicate shit.

I was able to recovery from PFS full whilst still having a caffeine habit however. Just 1 cup a day but I wish I didn't use it as much because my health would be ever better. There's also a fantastic book about this called Caffeine Blues that really sheds the light on coffee. It makes us great slaves for capitalist system but as an individual it should be used as a tool not a daily habit imo.

He has a great 3 part series on this. Alex Becker

Why Ill NEVER Drink Caffeine Again After Learning This - YouTube

additionally if you look at rockstars a lot of them crash around 27 which is when I got PFS because that's around the time the body after years of revving the engine for too long without rejuvination starts to wane. ;)

but it doesn't have to be like that the body can fully heal from this and with the new knowledge we can be better than ever before!

This has been my theory as well for a long time. I've come to the conclusion that in order to fix the problem that is Adrenal Fatique, we have to fix the underlying issue that created the problem. That is the lack of neurosteroids that modulate our stress response to stressors. I'm sure most of us know that people with PFS have been shown to have chronically low Allopregnanolone which is a positive allosteric modulator of the GABAA.

Just in case anyone wants to read into ALLO and what it does for us
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...020.00236/full

Chronic stress has been shown to lower BDNF, stopping the brain from healing any damage that has been done to it.
Androsterone also acts as a neurosteroid and positive allosteric modulator of GABAA.

My current strategy to heal is to take Alpha Seven (200 mg of Androsterone) while taking Semax (to raise BDNF) and NAD+ nasally administered to heal the brain.

I've been using the Semax with Pine Pollen for a couple weeks now and it has DEFINITELY helped my stress response. I'm excited to add in a higher dose of Andro and the NAD+ which has been reported to help people with CFS/chronic stress recover.

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Originally Posted by Karlucchi

This has been my theory as well for a long time. I've come to the conclusion that in order to fix the problem that is Adrenal Fatique, we have to fix the underlying issue that created the problem. That is the lack of neurosteroids that modulate our stress response to stressors. I'm sure most of us know that people with PFS have been shown to have chronically low Allopregnanolone which is a positive allosteric modulator of the GABAA.

Just in case anyone wants to read into ALLO and what it does for us
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...020.00236/full

Chronic stress has been shown to lower BDNF, stopping the brain from healing any damage that has been done to it.
Androsterone also acts as a neurosteroid and positive allosteric modulator of GABAA.

My current strategy to heal is to take Alpha Seven (200 mg of Androsterone) while taking Semax (to raise BDNF) and NAD+ nasally administered to heal the brain.

I've been using the Semax with Pine Pollen for a couple weeks now and it has DEFINITELY helped my stress response. I'm excited to add in a higher dose of Andro and the NAD+ which has been reported to help people with CFS/chronic stress recover.

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this in a way is still looking at it in the symptom perspective imo. Allo is low because our body is trying to force us to rest because we've been ignoring the signal too long. NAD+ is a nutrient though so will probably help. A lot of people including myself found niacinamide to help which is similar.

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Originally Posted by jacknap

this in a way is still looking at it in the symptom perspective imo. Allo is low because our body is trying to force us to rest because we've been ignoring the signal too long. NAD+ is a nutrient though so will probably help. A lot of people including myself found niacinamide to help which is similar.

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Allo is low because we destroyed the 5AR enzymes in our brain and it has struggled to rebuild them. Likely because of the level of stress our body had to take on with no Allo to modulate the response to it while the drug was active in our system.
Adrenal Fatigue is the symptom of low 5AR activity in the brain
Niacinamide helps many people because it upregulates 5AR in the brain.

I'm not debating if living a stress free life is a path towards recovery because I think it is. How long that recovery takes is what I don't know. I'm not sure how practical living a stress free life for an extended period of time is in our society.
I hope to find that the Semax and NAD+ is a way to shorten that recovery.

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Originally Posted by Karlucchi

Allo is low because we destroyed the 5AR enzymes in our brain and it has struggled to rebuild them. Likely because of the level of stress our body had to take on with no Allo to modulate the response to it while the drug was active in our system.
Adrenal Fatigue is the symptom of low 5AR activity in the brain
Niacinamide helps many people because it upregulates 5AR in the brain.

I'm not debating if living a stress free life is a path towards recovery because I think it is. How long that recovery takes is what I don't know. I'm not sure how practical living a stress free life for an extended period of time is in our society.
I hope to find that the Semax and NAD+ is a way to shorten that recovery.

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the fact that most people do not lower their stress considerably because they put too much demands on themselves is a key reason why a lot of people struggle to recover from this. most people who get PFS crash (me included) note that it happened during a period of intense stress.

we don't know if 5ar in the brain is destroyed that's just a theory. could just be a forced down regulation because we keep red lining our bodies and lowering any kinda testosterone during a period of stress is the straw that broke the camels back so to speak. the body downregulates things like allo in order to get us to rest to rebuild reserves rather than it get 'destroyed' so to speak.

@Karlucchi, Where did you get your Semax from? I've read some reports that say the stuff manufactured in Russia is far superior, and then other reports say the opposite.

I agree with your first statement 100%. I've spent the last 2-3 years of my life trying to reduce my stress levels drastically so I could recover and I feel like I've made minimal progress.
If your second statement was true than why doesn't Dr Lam or any other proponent of Adrenal Fatigue mention Allo at all?
There are studies that show people with PFS have chronically low levels of Allo but there are no studies to my knowledge that show people suffering from Adrenal Fatigue (w/o PFS) do.

I believe Adrenal Fatigue is very real and is what is holding our recovery back so we're on the same page and that is the main takeaway from this conversation.

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Originally Posted by Cambridge

@Karlucchi, Where did you get your Semax from? I've read some reports that say the stuff manufactured in Russia is far superior, and then other reports say the opposite.

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I'm getting my Semax from PureRawz and making it into a nasal spray using deionized water. If you don't want to go through all of that I would get it from Limitless Life Nootropics. The problem is that it degrades with heat during shipping so making your own with the powder from PureRawz is probably a better way to get more potency from it.

EDIT: I forgot, Limitless Life sells it as a powder with the nasal bottle and water unmixed so that it doesnt degrade. That's a safe bet as well then.

Interesting take for sure. I always wondered if I would’ve recovered quicker if I would have kicked the can on coffee. I’m still miserably addicted to it every morning but I try to keep it to 24oz or less a day. Usually one Bulletproof Coffee as breakfast, then two additional 8oz dark roasts.

Definitely an interesting theory. I gotta read up more about it. But honestly after going 6 years without coffee i felt like I had a noticeable improvement after reintroducing it a year ago. I only have 1 cup a day, 5 days a week.

I actually went this route before doing cdsnuts protocol for 2 years. Adrenal fatigue. Took minerals for it, slept a lot, had a lot of rest, no caffeine, but after 1,5 year-2 years I was not improving and still had clear lack of 5AR. And so I don't agree with this.

These dudes in Africa (Hadza tribe) run around all the time they run literally for hours. They exert way more energy and eat less calories than people in the West. Of course they are in a natural environment, eat a natural diet, etc. But these guys have a shit ton of stress. Running for hours is stressful.

I think adrenal fatigue is more like a problem in your system, lacking certain minerals or vitamins. Adrenal fatigue is a vague term. Its a nice marketing term to sell products for. It is a generalization.

Coffee is a stressor which in my opinion can actually be beneficial if you lack physical movement in your life (you dont use your body a lot). Which a lot of people do. It is more like the opposite - people lack stressors and so they get fat and tired from a lower metabolism. Maybe also lack nutrition because a lot of people drink a lot of alcohol and other things that deplete minerals and vitamins.

I can assure you 100% that PFS is not "just" adrenal fatigue. I have had PFS for 15 years and yes, supporting the adrenals is beneficial, but no where near a cure. I know a guy who is on disabiity from low adrenals, but if he takes TRT to instantly is hyper sexual. The hallmark for PFS is that it does almost nothing to us.

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Originally Posted by The Goat

I actually went this route before doing cdsnuts protocol for 2 years. Adrenal fatigue. Took minerals for it, slept a lot, had a lot of rest, no caffeine, but after 1,5 year-2 years I was not improving and still had clear lack of 5AR. And so I don't agree with this.

These dudes in Africa (Hadza tribe) run around all the time they run literally for hours. They exert way more energy and eat less calories than people in the West. Of course they are in a natural environment, eat a natural diet, etc. But these guys have a shit ton of stress. Running for hours is stressful.

I think adrenal fatigue is more like a problem in your system, lacking certain minerals or vitamins. Adrenal fatigue is a vague term. Its a nice marketing term to sell products for. It is a generalization.

Coffee is a stressor which in my opinion can actually be beneficial if you lack physical movement in your life (you dont use your body a lot). Which a lot of people do. It is more like the opposite - people lack stressors and so they get fat and tired from a lower metabolism. Maybe also lack nutrition because a lot of people drink a lot of alcohol and other things that deplete minerals and vitamins.

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Similar to my story. I focused for years on resting and taking vitamins and minerals to recover from Adrenal Fatigue with no improvement. This is why I believe the adrenal overuse stems from a lack of 5AR in the brain and that is what needs to be fixed first.

I do agree with you all. Moonman, Goat and Karlucchi. If PFS was AF I would have to search in the deepths of myself where is ALL this stress. I dont consider myself a stressed person and I really think this is one of the reasons I have done some good progress since I started the protocol in January.