Do I have PFS?

Hello all,
I am a male aged 35, 5'8" 150lbs
I took finasteride for hair loss 1mg/d for 1 month from Sept - Oct 2020. Felt great for 3 weeks , especially since my anxiety over my hair loss was reduced. In the 4th week I started to notice intermittant brain fog and that I had gained a few lbs of belly fat. I decided to go off the finasteride for a month so see if the brain fog subsided. Brain fog did subside however I started to get very depressed about my hair loss again. I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder and I could not go a day without obsessing over my hair. Decided to go back on finasteride at half dose (0.5mg/d) about 4 weeks after going off of it- so early November 2020. Immediately I started getting hit with the brain fog again and some pretty intense anxiety. Stayed on it for a week but then said this drug is definitely not for me and quit for good. I was ok for the next 6 weeks or so. I still noticed the belly fat which made me upset but thought I could shed it through exercise. During this period I continued to get depressed and obsessed over my hair loss. I also went to see a doctor about the body fat as I had read that the body fat is due to estrogen from a drug after reading on the propeciahelp forum. Anyways after I continued to stress about my hair and the body fat I started to get additional symptoms in mid January (2 months after my last dose) these included a tingling sensation in my left nipple, erectile dysfunction (I had not been able to quantify if I had any erectile difficulties while on the drug or for the 2 months after). I got more obsessed with these symptoms and started reading more horror stories online about PFS. About a week ago things started to spiral out of control and got hit with a host of new symptons (insomnia, intense anxiety, more severe depression, clicking joints, fatigue, tight scrotum, no morning wood, anhedonia, non existant libido). I have lost 10 lbs but still the abdominal fat seems to have remained. I am freaking out so much that I dont know what the finasteride has done and what my anxiety/stress/depression has done. I went to see a psychiatrist the other day who chalked it up to anxiety and prescribed me Remeron to help with anxiety and sleep. I am at the lowest point in my life now and just took some time off work to work through this. I'm not sure what I should be doing to heal myself because I am not convinced of the source of my issues. I really cant live like this much longer. I want to give the medication a try and work on my mental health but I keep on thinking I have PFS based on my symptoms and that overwhelmes me and drives me to looks for other ways to recover which is what brought me here. I am glad that I have finally seen some success stories because between propeciahelp and reddit all I saw were horror stories and despair. Just wondering what you guys think of my situation. Thanks a lot

Welcome, whatever it is that ails you, you have come to a place of support and understanding. Right now you are in a bad place psychologically. I’ve been in your exact situation so this is the advice I would have told myself.

Accept it happened, whether it’s PFS or a mental breakdown, life is going to suck for a while and the sooner you come to terms with this the faster you will start to feel better.

It doesn’t matter what the source is. Dwelling on this issue will feed into OCD/GAD. That shit loves doubt. The way forward is the same anyway so thinking about it will only feed the furnace.

Stay away from negativity cesspools like propeciahelp or reddit. Don’t google anything to do with finasteride, I promise you there is no information out there that is useful to you right now.

Start implementing breathing exercises and meditation right away. I use headspace on ios and the wim hoff breathing app. If you feel like you are losing your mind hop into a cold shower.

Talk to a real person. Open the flood gates of all that built up anxiety.

Get a blood test done to see if there are any immediate issues. Not necessarily related to PFS.

In regards to the remeron: I’ve taken it for 4 months during my recovery. It helped me very slightly but getting off it was definitely a hard fight and in the end - IN MY CASE - not worth it. Some here will disagree with me on this one, but I’m not going to tell someone that is feeling suicidal to toss his medication. If you are feeling close to giving up it might be worth a try, people all react differently on these meds. However, and I need to stress this, you have what it takes to tackle this. You aren’t helpless or broken or beyond hope. It will be a defining moment of your life and one of tour hardest battles, but you can get out of this stronger.

So first things first. Take a step back. Evaluate your mental situation. Talk to people. Calm down as much as you can. Walk a lot.
When you feel ready, take a look at the protocol and prepare to take life into your hands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mojo

Welcome, whatever it is that ails you, you have come to a place of support and understanding. Right now you are in a bad place psychologically. I’ve been in your exact situation so this is the advice I would have told myself.

Accept it happened, whether it’s PFS or a mental breakdown, life is going to suck for a while and the sooner you come to terms with this the faster you will start to feel better.

It doesn’t matter what the source is. Dwelling on this issue will feed into OCD/GAD. That shit loves doubt. The way forward is the same anyway so thinking about it will only feed the furnace.

Stay away from negativity cesspools like propeciahelp or reddit. Don’t google anything to do with finasteride, I promise you there is no information out there that is useful to you right now.

Start implementing breathing exercises and meditation right away. I use headspace on ios and the wim hoff breathing app. If you feel like you are losing your mind hop into a cold shower.

Talk to a real person. Open the flood gates of all that built up anxiety.

Get a blood test done to see if there are any immediate issues. Not necessarily related to PFS.

In regards to the remeron: I’ve taken it for 4 months during my recovery. It helped me very slightly but getting off it was definitely a hard fight and in the end - IN MY CASE - not worth it. Some here will disagree with me on this one, but I’m not going to tell someone that is feeling suicidal to toss his medication. If you are feeling close to giving up it might be worth a try, people all react differently on these meds. However, and I need to stress this, you have what it takes to tackle this. You aren’t helpless or broken or beyond hope. It will be a defining moment of your life and one of tour hardest battles, but you can get out of this stronger.

So first things first. Take a step back. Evaluate your mental situation. Talk to people. Calm down as much as you can. Walk a lot.
When you feel ready, take a look at the protocol and prepare to take life into your hands.

---

Are you saying that getting off of Remeron was not worth it or going on it in the first place was not worth it? At thing point I am just desperate for something to help me sleep through the night and hopefully bring my anxiety/depression down which will help me move forward and perhaps reduce some of the physical symptoms I am experiencing if they are a result of anxiety. I would also like to get back to work sooner than later as that is causing me great anxiety in and of itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DUB

Are you saying that getting off of Remeron was not worth it or going on it in the first place was not worth it? At thing point I am just desperate for something to help me sleep through the night and hopefully bring my anxiety/depression down which will help me move forward and perhaps reduce some of the physical symptoms I am experiencing if they are a result of anxiety. I would also like to get back to work sooner than later as that is causing me great anxiety in and of itself.

---

Getting on it gave me minimal improvements and getting off it amplified my problems. Again, this is not advice: getting on remeron was not worth it for me personally. Your mileage may vary. The good thing about remeron compared to traditional SSRI's is the benefits should be felt immediately as opposed to 6 weeks down the line. So I guess you could also stop it again fairly fast without triggering severe withdrawal symptoms.

Do the ol self-prescribed Ket lol.






















also ..... dont do this lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mojo

Getting on it gave me minimal improvements and getting off it amplified my problems. Again, this is not advice: getting on remeron was not worth it for me personally. Your mileage may vary. The good thing about remeron compared to traditional SSRI's is the benefits should be felt immediately as opposed to 6 weeks down the line. So I guess you could also stop it again fairly fast without triggering severe withdrawal symptoms.

---

Thank you for your replies Mojo. Your response and your own personal story has been a beacon of hope in this hellish time. I am getting bloodwork done on friday. My GP has ticked off glucose, HbA1C, TSH, Creatinine, ALT, Albumin, B12, Calcium, Folate, and Free Testosterone on my requisition. He seemed reluctant to check my hormonal profile when I told him some of my early symptoms brought on by Fin. I dont think they are covered by the government health insurance. What additional things should I get checked so I have a baseline for recovery and to determine if finasteride threw anything out of balance. I'd be willing to pay for the additional tests.

How were you able to cope through your worst times? Were you still able to work? Happy you are doing better. You and some of the others on here have been an inspiration to me.

Personally I have had a bunch of tests done and during the course of the last year my blood has shown a variety of changing deviations. My thyroid marker (TSH) went out of bounds, my cholesterol shot up, my ferritin levels skyrocketed, my estrogen was elevated and I tested positive for recent CMV activity. I wish I could tell you either of these had a direct solution but in the end it was just a nice-to-know and my body just needed some time to fix it on it’s own.

Most deviations on your test will only tell you that your body is in turmoil. This can easily be caused by chronic high level stress so any deviations should not immediately be a reason for concern. Unless the test shows you an easily supplemented deficiency (like salts or vitamins) I would not expect miracles. So look at it with a common sense state of mind.

My problems started just before covid, and since I work in a sector that is heavily impacted I’ve had the blessing of not having to work all that much for almost a year now. I started my journey completely oblivious to what was happening to me and all I had as a place for answers was propeciahelp. Needless to say I got endlessly stressed out and tried my hand at xanax and remeron. Both burned me and I wish I had found this place a lot earlier in my recovery. Coping was very hard in the beginning. Passing all stages of grief and the endless doubt whether this was a pure mental problem or PFS drained me. Once I got passed that and just focused on getting better and nothing else, while finding this small community of positive energy, I started to feel immediate relief.

It can be a long and hard fight. This is not unique to PFS. I have a friend with very similar problems that had never touched finasteride. So dwelling on this will only increase your struggle.

Make sure you try to tackle your mental state to the best of your abilities early on and I promise you that soon, you will find a lot of energy to push through. You just have to learn to accept whatever it is that is happening and see it as an opportunity to better yourself.

Starting your own log can be helpful as a therapeutic journal. Or reply to any existing threads for advice. Just make sure that, for the benefit of yourself and other, try to look at everything in a positive light.

Also, concerning the ‘protocol’ (I really dislike that word): it gave me something to hold on to. Just believing I was doing something positive and working towards a goal helped me cope a lot. There will be moments you start to feel better. This could be brief but is very important. Remind yourself of these times. They show you that this is not an endless fight. When you get inevitably worse again your mind/GAD will try to convince you these moment never happened and doubt will cloud your mind. This is a fight with a lot of ups and downs, and for some cruel reason your mind will only acknowledge the downs.

Protocol, regimen, CD's method...take your pic. What ever makes you more comfortable.....lol

Remeron is garbage, just like most of the psych meds. Will cause nothing but more problems down the line. Lack of restful sleep is in itself a form of torture. But there is enough here for someone to take to get themselves down for a few hours at least.

OP....from what it sounds like I don't know how it could be anything else other then pfs, but like Mojo said, the way out is the same.

site has been fixed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Protocol, regimen, CD's method...take your pic. What ever makes you more comfortable.....lol

Remeron is garbage, just like most of the psych meds. Will cause nothing but more problems down the line. Lack of restful sleep is in itself a form of torture. But there is enough here for someone to take to get themselves down for a few hours at least.

OP....from what it sounds like I don't know how it could be anything else other then pfs, but like Mojo said, the way out is the same.

---

The issue I have is that I am not convinced at this point that I have PFS. I have serious health anxiety, OCD and GAD and the more I found myself reading horror stories on PH and reddit about PFS the more symptoms would show up. Some of these symptoms are very hard for me to attribute to strictly anxiety/depression/stress but we all know how powerful the brain is and how it works in mysterious ways. I think the prudent thing for me to do is to go the conventional route atleast from the outset. I am suffering immensely right now. More that I ever thought possible and I need some instant relief to get back to a functional baseline. I am going to try Remeron and work with a therapist to see if that can bring me out of the depths of hell. I guess its possible that it will address some of the symptoms and allow me to distinguish if some side effects are strictly mental. I am very interested in the protocol. I have already implemented a few things, those being, cold showers, breathing exercises, meditation and paleo diet. Is there anything that you would add right now as well to augment my conventional healing attempt with remeron and CBT therapy? I also cant lift heavy. I tend to get injured pretty easily from what I think is years of stress and tight muscles. Could the exercise part of the program be cardio, yoga and light lifting high reps. Which of the supplements or herbs do you think would be most beneficial to start out with. I can't have anything that interacts with Remeron.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DUB

The issue I have is that I am not convinced at this point that I have PFS. I have serious health anxiety, OCD and GAD and the more I found myself reading horror stories on PH and reddit about PFS the more symptoms would show up. Some of these symptoms are very hard for me to attribute to strictly anxiety/depression/stress but we all know how powerful the brain is and how it works in mysterious ways. I think the prudent thing for me to do is to go the conventional route atleast from the outset. I am suffering immensely right now. More that I ever thought possible and I need some instant relief to get back to a functional baseline. I am going to try Remeron and work with a therapist to see if that can bring me out of the depths of hell. I guess its possible that it will address some of the symptoms and allow me to distinguish if some side effects are strictly mental. I am very interested in the protocol. I have already implemented a few things, those being, cold showers, breathing exercises, meditation and paleo diet. Is there anything that you would add right now as well to augment my conventional healing attempt with remeron and CBT therapy? I also cant lift heavy. I tend to get injured pretty easily from what I think is years of stress and tight muscles. Could the exercise part of the program be cardio, yoga and light lifting high reps. Which of the supplements or herbs do you think would be most beneficial to start out with. I can't have anything that interacts with Remeron.

---

Before Remeron, try blue vervain. I have a herbal mix tincture that has it and makes my anxiety better. I also think you should eat carbs, empty stomach makes my anxiety worse, but ask cdnuts if he agrees. Try walking, running, cold showers, icing your balls, all of it will improve sleep that will improve mental health. I’m feeling what you’re feeling and I’m getting better doing these things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brazilianguy

Before Remeron, try blue vervain. I have a herbal mix tincture that has it and makes my anxiety better. I also think you should eat carbs, empty stomach makes my anxiety worse, but ask cdnuts if he agrees. Try walking, running, cold showers, icing your balls, all of it will improve sleep that will improve mental health. I’m feeling what you’re feeling and I’m getting better doing these things.

---

Where did you get the Blue Vervain Brazilianguy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DUB

Where did you get the Blue Vervain Brazilianguy?

---

Blue Vervain | Total Male Optimization

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DUB

The issue I have is that I am not convinced at this point that I have PFS. I have serious health anxiety, OCD and GAD and the more I found myself reading horror stories on PH and reddit about PFS the more symptoms would show up. Some of these symptoms are very hard for me to attribute to strictly anxiety/depression/stress but we all know how powerful the brain is and how it works in mysterious ways. I think the prudent thing for me to do is to go the conventional route atleast from the outset. I am suffering immensely right now. More that I ever thought possible and I need some instant relief to get back to a functional baseline. I am going to try Remeron and work with a therapist to see if that can bring me out of the depths of hell. I guess its possible that it will address some of the symptoms and allow me to distinguish if some side effects are strictly mental. I am very interested in the protocol. I have already implemented a few things, those being, cold showers, breathing exercises, meditation and paleo diet. Is there anything that you would add right now as well to augment my conventional healing attempt with remeron and CBT therapy? I also cant lift heavy. I tend to get injured pretty easily from what I think is years of stress and tight muscles. Could the exercise part of the program be cardio, yoga and light lifting high reps. Which of the supplements or herbs do you think would be most beneficial to start out with. I can't have anything that interacts with Remeron.

---

Regardless whether it's pfs or not, this protocol will bring any man back into a solid balance. It doesn't matter what is ailing you. If you do this as outlined, I can guarantee that you'll be feeling much better in a matter of months. Then, when you see the positive changes, it will encourage you to keep going until your healed. How bad do you want to feel good?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Regardless whether it's pfs or not, this protocol will bring any man back into a solid balance. It doesn't matter what is ailing you. If you do this as outlined, I can guarantee that you'll be feeling much better in a matter of months. Then, when you see the positive changes, it will encourage you to keep going until your healed. How bad do you want to feel good?

---

I echo this sentiment. In fact, at this point I would probably still say most of my problems are caused by severe health anxiety, and not necessarily “PFS”. It runs in the family too as my mother had a yearlong battle with the same kind of shit because she was convinced she had cancer (she didn’t). You could look at the protocol as some sort of therapy, giving something to focus all that restless energy on.

I’m going to go even further here and say something controversial like: a lot of people that have PFS are probably dealing with health anxiety too. Severe chronic anxiety just covers so many of the symptoms, even decreased allopregnanolone levels. Stress can fuck you up so much that you need some kind of healthy regimen to being your body back to homeostasis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mojo

I echo this sentiment. In fact, at this point I would probably still say most of my problems are caused by severe health anxiety, and not necessarily “PFS”. It runs in the family too as my mother had a yearlong battle with the same kind of shit because she was convinced she had cancer (she didn’t). You could look at the protocol as some sort of therapy, giving something to focus all that restless energy on.

I’m going to go even further here and say something controversial like: a lot of people that have PFS are probably dealing with health anxiety too. Severe chronic anxiety just covers so many of the symptoms, even decreased allopregnanolone levels. Stress can fuck you up so much that you need some kind of healthy regimen to being your body back to homeostasis.

---

I would tend to agree with this to an extent. But the kicker here is, pfs causes anxiety in it's own right because of the negative effect 5ar inhibition has on neurosteroids. I NEVER had anxiety until I took propecia.....ever. It was a totally new and terrifying experience to me. Either way, you know what you have to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mojo

I echo this sentiment. In fact, at this point I would probably still say most of my problems are caused by severe health anxiety, and not necessarily “PFS”. It runs in the family too as my mother had a yearlong battle with the same kind of shit because she was convinced she had cancer (she didn’t). You could look at the protocol as some sort of therapy, giving something to focus all that restless energy on.

I’m going to go even further here and say something controversial like: a lot of people that have PFS are probably dealing with health anxiety too. Severe chronic anxiety just covers so many of the symptoms, even decreased allopregnanolone levels. Stress can fuck you up so much that you need some kind of healthy regimen to being your body back to homeostasis.

---

Which herbs/supplements do you take and do they interact with Remeron?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DUB

Which herbs/supplements do you take and do they interact with Remeron?

---

Testosterone Boosting Supplement Rotation | Total Male Optimization

You should wean yourself off the pharms before starting anything. I doubt you would have an issue, but that research is up to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DUB

Which herbs/supplements do you take and do they interact with Remeron?

---

As CD said, I’m basically doing what the protocol describes. On top of that I sometimes take some NAC as studies show it helps reduce ruminating in OCD patients.

Unless you are taking serotonin modulators (like st johns wort) or psychoactive substances (read: drugs) nothing should interfere with remeron. But I’m not a doctor.

Just be aware that if you start remeron, it will be hard to judge what supplements help you, as remeron is a very powerful drug.

My final advice on remeron: I can’t blame you for trying it out. I would have, and have, done the same. But I regret taking it for months with little to no benefit, making getting of it really hard. Be your own judge on the effects and discuss them with your psychiatrist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mojo

As CD said, I’m basically doing what the protocol describes. On top of that I sometimes take some NAC as studies show it helps reduce ruminating in OCD patients.

Unless you are taking serotonin modulators (like st johns wort) or psychoactive substances (read: drugs) nothing should interfere with remeron. But I’m not a doctor.

Just be aware that if you start remeron, it will be hard to judge what supplements help you, as remeron is a very powerful drug.

My final advice on remeron: I can’t blame you for trying it out. I would have, and have, done the same. But I regret taking it for months with little to no benefit, making getting of it really hard. Be your own judge on the effects and discuss them with your psychiatrist.

---

You will not fully heal unless you stop forcing pharmaceuticals into your system. There is no way around this.