readytonut's Road to Recovery (one pill victim)

Hey Guys, i live in europe and need a place that can help me recover, im desperate at this point. I had taken half a finasteride pill (0,5mg) on February 19th and have had severe side effects since then. My health deteriorates week after week. I just don't want to watch anymore and need a place where i can find advice on my healing process. I was always a gym addict and took vitamins regularly over the years these were always the following: omega 3, vitamin k, vitmain d, vitamin b12, biotin, zinc and selenium. My diet was mostly vegetarian at the time.

Now to the days after taking the finasteride pill. 3 days after the pill I was on a long journey with little and very bad food and had a headache all day. That night i woke up and had fluid leaking from my nipples. I developed some gyno since then and i had painful nipples for 2.5 months. After the first month, I started researching and came across a toxic site where many talked about their suffering. I have contacted people and asked them for tips on how to deal with the situation. The consensus was that I should stop taking all vitamins and not go to the gym anymore (big mistake). I followed these rules and my condition worsened over the month. I had several panic attacks in the following days and my symptoms all exploded. I have developed an extreme insomnia that has accompanied me to this day. This insomnia worsen my symptoms on the days when I sleep poorly. My other symptoms are full ED, low libido, energy dips during the day ( follwed by hunger cravings and headaches), cold hands / feet, penile shrinkage, reduced semen volume, muscle twitching, body tremors, tinnitus and many more symptoms.

Today i'm at a point where im almost disabled. I can hardly walk up stairs without getting out of breath and get abdominal pain and diarrhea at the slightest exertion. After physical exertion, i get brain fog and my vision gets blurry. I think i have developed a post exertional malaise that makes it impossible to do sports. Even an erection can make me not feel good afterwards. When i come to orgasm, i become a zombie for the next 2-3 days and can't move or think properly.
I think my thyroid is also going crazy. Sometimes i get red cheeks which are a sign of hyperthyroidism.
Unfortunately i don't know how to handle these symptoms, i think my androgen receptors have become extremely sensitive. How can i best start the healing process. I miss the gym so much, but with the current condition it's impossible. First i need to somehow improve my sleep first, otherwise i can't function as a normal human anymore. My hormone levels have all been in range so far. I will post them here later as soon as I have them. I have started taking rhodiola daily in the morning for 3 days now and that seems to work and prevents me from getting into fight or flight mode, but the question is what supplements should I take to improve my sleep first. I have heard many positive things about acetly l carnetine and it is also supposed to help well against CFS. The most important parts of the protocol cause me considerable problems especially sleep and training, how should I proceed here? I have in half a month an appointment with a doctor who has multiple PFS patients and prescribes androstenedione, dhea or hCG to treat PFS. Would one of these hormones relieve my symptoms? Please i need advice asap. Will i ever be normal again? I already ordered rhodiola, ashwaghanda, tribulus, acetyl l carnetine, omega 3, cordyceps, creatine and some whey without any sweeteners. I already cut all gluten from my diet and increased the fruit and vegetable intake. i lost so much muscle mass already and dont know about doing any fasts or feasts. I started meditations yesterday and im doing streching routiens for about 2 weeks know. How shoud i handle the excersice intolerace? Push through and feel bad for 2-3 day and do this until feeling better or wait 1-2 weeks until feeling good again and slowly increase workout intensitiy.


EDIT: hormonal levels came in:
Estradiol: 40,9 pg/mL range 0-56
Prolaktin: 14,4 ng/mL range 2.5-17
FSH: 2.31 mlU/ml range 0.7-11.1
LH: 2.87 mlU/mL range 0.8-7.6
SHBG: 34.4 nmol/L range 10-57
Testosterone:688ng/dL range 160-728
TSH: 2.31 mlU range 0.27-4.2
FT3: 3.46 pg/ml range 1.8-4.2
FT4: 1.37 ng/dL range 0.89-1.76
TPO: 21.6 iU7mL range 0-35
Cortisol: 21.3 ug/dL range 5-25
Insulin: 5.96 ulU range 0-29.1
ACTH: 22.8 pg/mL range 0-46
cholesterol: 200 mg/dl range <200

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Readytonut

Hey Guys, i live in europe and need a place that can help me recover, im desperate at this point. I had taken half a finasteride pill (0,5mg) on February 19th and have had severe side effects since then. My health deteriorates week after week. I just don't want to watch anymore and need a place where i can find advice on my healing process. I was always a gym addict and took vitamins regularly over the years these were always the following: omega 3, vitamin k, vitmain d, vitamin b12, biotin, zinc and selenium. My diet was mostly vegetarian at the time.

Now to the days after taking the finasteride pill. 3 days after the pill I was on a long journey with little and very bad food and had a headache all day. That night i woke up and had fluid leaking from my nipples. I developed some gyno since then and i had painful nipples for 2.5 months. After the first month, I started researching and came across a toxic site where many talked about their suffering. I have contacted people and asked them for tips on how to deal with the situation. The consensus was that I should stop taking all vitamins and not go to the gym anymore (big mistake). I followed these rules and my condition worsened over the month. I had several panic attacks in the following days and my symptoms all exploded. I have developed an extreme insomnia that has accompanied me to this day. This insomnia worsen my symptoms on the days when I sleep poorly. My other symptoms are full ED, low libido, energy dips during the day ( follwed by hunger cravings and headaches), cold hands / feet, penile shrinkage, reduced semen volume, muscle twitching, body tremors, tinnitus and many more symptoms.

Today i'm at a point where im almost disabled. I can hardly walk up stairs without getting out of breath and get abdominal pain and diarrhea at the slightest exertion. After physical exertion, i get brain fog and my vision gets blurry. I think i have developed a post exertional malaise that makes it impossible to do sports. Even an erection can make me not feel good afterwards. When i come to orgasm, i become a zombie for the next 2-3 days and can't move or think properly.
I think my thyroid is also going crazy. Sometimes i get red cheeks which are a sign of hyperthyroidism.
Unfortunately i don't know how to handle these symptoms, i think my androgen receptors have become extremely sensitive. How can i best start the healing process. I miss the gym so much, but with the current condition it's impossible. First i need to somehow improve my sleep first, otherwise i can't function as a normal human anymore. My hormone levels have all been in range so far. I will post them here later as soon as I have them. I have started taking rhodiola daily in the morning for 3 days now and that seems to work and prevents me from getting into fight or flight mode, but the question is what supplements should I take to improve my sleep first. I have heard many positive things about acetly l carnetine and it is also supposed to help well against CFS. The most important parts of the protocol cause me considerable problems especially sleep and training, how should I proceed here? I have in half a month an appointment with a doctor who has multiple PFS patients and prescribes androstenedione, dhea or hCG to treat PFS. Would one of these hormones relieve my symptoms? Please i need advice asap. Will i ever be normal again? I already ordered rhodiola, ashwaghanda, tribulus, acetyl l carnetine, omega 3, cordyceps, creatine and some whey without any sweeteners. I already cut all gluten from my diet and increased the fruit and vegetable intake. i lost so much muscle mass already and dont know about doing any fasts or feasts. I started meditations yesterday and im doing streching routiens for about 2 weeks know. How shoud i handle the excersice intolerace? Push through and feel bad for 2-3 day and do this until feeling better or wait 1-2 weeks until feeling good again and slowly increase workout intensitiy.


EDIT: hormonal levels came in:
Estradiol: 40,9 pg/mL range 0-56
Prolaktin: 14,4 ng/mL range 2.5-17
FSH: 2.31 mlU/ml range 0.7-11.1
LH: 2.87 mlU/mL range 0.8-7.6
SHBG: 34.4 nmol/L range 10-57
Testosterone:688ng/dL range 160-728
TSH: 2.31 mlU range 0.27-4.2
FT3: 3.46 pg/ml range 1.8-4.2
FT4: 1.37 ng/dL range 0.89-1.76
TPO: 21.6 iU7mL range 0-35
Cortisol: 21.3 ug/dL range 5-25
Insulin: 5.96 ulU range 0-29.1
ACTH: 22.8 pg/mL range 0-46
cholesterol: 200 mg/dl range <200

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Hi man,

We spoke on Reddit, I was the guy who created an account to reassure a scared guy.

As I told you there, I (just like people here) am following the TMO protocol which you can find at http://www.totalmaloptimization.com.

I have had ups and down but I am way better than 3 months ago. This shit takes time to heal, so you have to do every single part of the protocol consistently, and your body will heal over time. Doing the protocol means staying away from pharmaceuticals, so if you choose to follow the protocol, that would exclude the hormones you mentioned.

Doctors have failed me and many others with this condition. There is not a magic medicine that will cure you. This is a systematic condition that requires your body to be in top condition in order to heal. It takes time and effort, but you will find motivated people here to motivate you. If you follow my posts you can see it's a rollercoaster, but the upward trend is still undeniable.

Not gonna lie it can be super hard at the beginning but you can get through this. I am far from recovered but I have improved enough to know I will recover with enough time and effort.

You got this man, welcome to the forum.

Hey wassup Outlaw,

i finally found a place where i can seek good advice from sane people about the protocol. Im already incooperating like 60% of the protocol like (meditation, stretching, sun bathing, eating 80% clean(paleo),no fap). Some of the most important stuff like sleep and exercise im still struggling with. I need to solve those first i think? I think im at an point of advance adrenal exhaustion. Im emotionless, no happiness anymore.

I still have questions on how and when to take the herbs like when should i take every specific herbs and how should i cylce them? I would really appreciate any advice.
My current stack consists of Rhodiola, Ashwaghanda, Omega3, acetyl l carnetine(good for CFS?), cordyceps and creatine.

I would love to go and do any exercise but every physical activity sometimes even walking makes be feel extremly bad. I get crazy abdominal pain. I guess its some type of autoimmune/neurological disease that developed slowly because of sleep depravation. My first target right now is to fix my sleep pattern otherwise i feel like a zombie. i started to increase my intake of antiinflammitory foods to prevent further damage to my CNS.

Mediation and Streching helps me calm down a lot. i will definitely do those every day.

Best advice I can give is although it may seem things are or even improving and some things are not or even getting worse would be to do a stop and reset I.e. Either the juice feast or the water fast.

That would enable your body to detox and then from there your body will be much more receptive to all the things outlined in the protocol. I would use the term temporary step back for major comeback but tbh I don't see the fasting or feasting as a step back as its part of the comeback. Believe me as hard and daunting as it may sound in a few months time you'll be glad you did it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Readytonut

Hey wassup Outlaw,

i finally found a place where i can seek good advice from sane people about the protocol. Im already incooperating like 60% of the protocol like (meditation, stretching, sun bathing, eating 80% clean(paleo),no fap). Some of the most important stuff like sleep and exercise im still struggling with. I need to solve those first i think? I think im at an point of advance adrenal exhaustion. Im emotionless, no happiness anymore.

I still have questions on how and when to take the herbs like when should i take every specific herbs and how should i cylce them? I would really appreciate any advice.
My current stack consists of Rhodiola, Ashwaghanda, Omega3, acetyl l carnetine(good for CFS?), cordyceps and creatine.

I would love to go and do any exercise but every physical activity sometimes even walking makes be feel extremly bad. I get crazy abdominal pain. I guess its some type of autoimmune/neurological disease that developed slowly because of sleep depravation. My first target right now is to fix my sleep pattern otherwise i feel like a zombie. i started to increase my intake of antiinflammitory foods to prevent further damage to my CNS.

Mediation and Streching helps me calm down a lot. i will definitely do those every day.

---

Hey man, glad that you found your way here. Gonna try to answer every aspect.

You have to do every part of the protocol in order to hit the problem from every angle. Dont waste your time doing it partially!

Read the totalmaleoptimization website in the stickies section of this forum. Read all the website from top to bottom you will understand everything. You take the herbs 2x/day (morning and mid afternoon, rotating 1 herb/day, with a minimum set of 7 herbs). You can take Pine Pollen daily, since it's considered more like a nutrient that you won't develop a tolerance to.

For sleep, look at the sleep supplements of the protocol, they will help. However, once you continue on your journey, the protocol should bring you back to normal sleep patterns. Insomnia is generally (not always) one of the first symptoms to go away, and sexual the last.

Regarding exercise I will let the veterans chime in. The protocol specifies to increase gradually, by starting with body weight exercises. You need to find that balance between exercising too much and not enough, listen to your body.

Hope this helps, keep it up

Thanks for the advice Outlaw!

I need to solve the excersice riddle. Im at a point where im almost bed bound. When i walk to fast, run or do anything that is physically demanding i feel like a zombie afterwards and close to an crash. The same happends when i get an erection or even worse if i masturbate.
Something in my body is off and i probably need medical attention asap. I have an apointment with an doc who has multiple PFS patients in around 2 weeks. I probably need some type of prohormones to get me going again cuz im almost disabled in this state.

If there is someone out there who had similar issues i would really appreciate advice in this specific area. I dont know if my adrenals are at their limit or something because im starting to get signs of nervous system/autoimmune issues. I will in any case start a water fast tomorrow and try to see how it goes. I think i developed some sort of exercise malaise, which makes anything exersice wise impossible. This all probably stems from sleep depravation for like 4 months now. Next week i will order some glycine to support my sleep. Im one of those lucky bastards that gets worse with time instead of better, and i only took one f**** pill.
How long should I do the waterfast?

Fast as long as you can. Read TMO. I had the same, brain fog when exercising, extreme fatigue. Water fasting for 7 days fixed those for me. Then did a 4 day juice fest and then finally a 7-day juice feast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Comewhatmay

Best advice I can give is although it may seem things are or even improving and some things are not or even getting worse would be to do a stop and reset I.e. Either the juice feast or the water fast.

That would enable your body to detox and then from there your body will be much more receptive to all the things outlined in the protocol. I would use the term temporary step back for major comeback but tbh I don't see the fasting or feasting as a step back as its part of the comeback. Believe me as hard and daunting as it may sound in a few months time you'll be glad you did it

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This^^^^^^

READ: Cleaning Up The Mess You Made | Total Male Optimization

hey guys, short update on the current situation. I've tried to follow the diet as good as possible, only raw food lowish in carbs but it got worse. I often find myself in an caloric deficit with this diet which makes everything extremely worse. Im now probably in an caloric deficit for 4-5 months now. My body got weaker and my sexual sides worse. My testicles and the tip of my penis are always cold and I feel a strange feeling in the scrotum area. Libido almost gone. I have oftentimes sleep issues which makes me panic during the night and i tend to eat bad stuff like oats or apples, which spikes my bloodsugar and makes me than fall asleep.

Ive tried an 24h fast a couple of weeks ago on an Monday and broke it on tuesday in the afternoon. I did not eat enough calories that day and my sleep was bad again for the next couple of days until somewhere around the end of the week around friday or saturday where i felt an improvement in my symptoms.
I only weigh around 158lbs currently, which make me worry alot. I didn't do any herbs until now because i wanted to get my diet in line before jumping on the supplement part of the protocol, otherwise i would´ve blade the brainfog on the supps.

I felt it myself that diet is the number one culprit of those soul crushing brain-fogs and headaches. I used to get improvement of symptoms when i ate carbs but since i cut them down a lot i have almost no bloodflow in penis and no spontaneous erections anymore.

Today i panicked again because of those cold genitals and ate some oats in the morning. 5-10 mins after i ate those oats i got an instant diarrhea and this time the water in the toilet even had a weird film on the surface which never occurred before. I have an slight brainfog/headache now and the past few days i get extremely dizzy when I stand up from an lying position with an short white vision. i still have those internal tremors which got better with time but i can still feel them. I developed weird skin rashes that are itching (probably candida). I also sometimes get brainfog when i eat simple fruits like apple which are an big part of the paleo diet.

My current question now how do i tackle this situation? There is obviously something wrong on multiple areas. Also the likelihood of candida overgrowth in the gut is extremely high (white tongue, brianfog, itchy butthole, digestive issues, roundish skin rashes)
I know you guys recommend water fasts, juice feast but this would only further weaken my body at this stage. I want to gain a little more weight before i do those two things. If you guys think thats the only way i would do it......
When i feel good for a couple of days i tend to workout a little which completely destroys my sleep again and im back at square one.

The herbs and supps that i currently home at are:
Vitamin D,
Vitamin C,
Fish Oil,
Multivitamin,
Acetyl L carnetine,
Creatine,
Rhodiola,
Ashwaghanda,
Tribulus,
Cordyceps,
Candex Digestive Enzymes,
Non flavored Whey,
Biotin-Zinc-selenium.

Would you guys recommend anything else for the supps? I something missing?

I definitely want to start the supps, i already took some fish oil today.
I dont have any idea which of those i should take every day and which of those i cycle daily. I also got another recent hormone test which is not looking good.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet my hormone results

You’re in the roughest phase of this right now, do yourself a favor and stop obsessing over your condition during this time, this is gonna be the easiest phase to get out of, and it won’t last long if you get with the program. This is the advice I would have given myself a year and a half ish ago. The worst of it tends to go away easily, then the final 20-30% is going to be more difficult and take a lot of time. During that phase you won’t be suffering but you won’t be healed yet either. Tough out this rough phase until it passes, which it will. I couldn’t sprint over lift heavy for a long time without getting worse, I was just an absolute wreck not too long ago.

Stay away from those other bullshit forums, like anything in life, this condition is separated into demographics. Guys on those sites will never heal or improve, they’ll complain and cry about what happened to them, just like they would with anything else in life, and they’ll stay fucked. Don’t be one of those guys. It BLOWS my mind they stay so fucked up, because it’s such an easy solution with some dedication, it’s literally just a choice.

It’s gonna take a lot of time and dedication, but get to it. You got this brah.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

Stay away from those other bullshit forums, like anything in life, this condition is separated into demographics. Guys on those sites will never heal or improve, they’ll complain and cry about what happened to them, just like they would with anything else in life, and they’ll stay fucked. Don’t be one of those guys. It BLOWS my mind they stay so fucked up, because it’s such an easy solution with some dedication, it’s literally just a choice.

It’s gonna take a lot of time and dedication, but get to it. You got this brah.

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This is very important. Never believe for a second that this is permanent. And don’t talk to people that try to convince you it is. They often expect that improvements should come over night if they take this supplement or cut out this food. They don’t grasp the concept that this is a lengthy and slow battle. Then when they don’t immediately improve after trying some ‘magic bullet’ they just give in to complete helplessness and will attack anyone that claims you have to work for it.

Get your mindset in order. Go all in on stress control to give your body the ability to heal itself. The first step is believing you will get out of this. This is hard but it will strengthen over time and will make the grind a lot more tolerable.

Have someone to talk to. Visit a therapist. It doesn’t matter if he believes you or not. You need to vent all the anxieties that are building up inside of you.

Go all in on recovery. Remind yourself that you are not only healing yourself but that you will actually get out of this stronger than you have ever been. Good luck man.

@Turnover25, @Mojo.....two great responses. Thank you. Nailed it.

Readytonuts.....Here comes the broken record again.....EVERYTHING you need to do is listed in order, on TMO....literally. You have alot of great guys here that know their shit AND are willing to help. Listen to these guys. If you're not going to listen to me, you have to resonate with someone on this board. It's ALL right there for the taking man.....you just have to......take it.

What are the recommended macro splits for the paleo diet? How many Carbs, Fats, and Protein should I eat? Does this even matter? This is not stated on the TMO website.
Is testicular atrophy reversible with this protocol?

@Cdsnuts why do i get spontaneous erections 2 hours after eating carbs? maybe im just in an constant caloric deficit for months thats why eating carbs gives me my sexual function back? my balls start to hang properly after consumption. when i go to sleep and wake up in the next day my balls are extremly tight again and penis shrinks and get cold. When i did my 1 day fast i had tight balls and shrunken penis all day. So something with my metabolism is off? Im asking for the macro splits because they seem to have to most influence on my sexual function. I feel like during those low bloodsugar phases the most damage is done to my reproductive system. On the TMO website it states that i can eat as much stuff i want on the food list.

Malnutrition or chronic inflammation could also be an cause of hypogonandism?

I started the juicefast today, i was fasting 16 hours before i drank my juice. A couple mins after i drank the first glass i felt very weird in a bad way. During the normal fast everything felt amazing but a couple mins after i drank the juice my anxiety shot up, my tremble came back(which was not present during normal fasting), I got lightheaded and my balls started to hurt. If my sides gets worse today or tomorrow i will probably stop this and build more muscle mass, i really think my only issue is constant caloric deficit for multiple months which reduced my T super quick. my body temperature is extremely cold and im freezing right now. The fact that my body reacts this bad just on juice alone make me think that something is really inflamed in my gut or stomach. I think gaining some weight the next couple of weeks and months is the way to go and as soon as i have enough mass i can do an good old waterfast which my body seems to tolerate the best. What is your guys opinion on this, should i listen to my body? I always felt the best when i ate alot of food. Prolonged caloric restriction is extremly bad for T.

Quick update.

I stopped being a faggot and started the protocol around 2 weeks ago. I did a 5-6 day waterfast (i had to cut it a little short because i felt dizzy and didn’t have much bodyfat to support long a fast.)
After stopping the fast I took my time for the refeeding. Veggies, soups, fruits…. Very slowly increased the calories. Digestion improved a lot since then but it is still not at 100%.
My refeeding was almost one week long. Full paleo and i tried to eat LOW FODMAP foods to help digestion.

5 days ago I started to implement the herb cycle into my routine. After the 3rd day i already saw a uptick in libido. My libido is already better than pre fin right now but it is very early into my journey. The herbs seem to be extremely effective on my body even with a single dose.

Unfortunately finasterid caused me puffy nipple/gyno which is super annoying. I hope the prohormones will help with that soon.

How's your sleep been? I read you had major problems early days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by road to recover

How's your sleep been? I read you had major problems early days.

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Before the fast it stabilized a lot, i would wake up 1-3 times and sleep for like 6-7 hours.
During fast it improved a little bit and i would wake up like once per night and sleep 7-8 hours.
The first 4 days of herb rotation i slept through no wake ups with like solid 8hours of sleep.
But today in the 5th day my sleep got worse again. I got huge anxiety spike and some slight nipple pain with it. Luckily it was very manageable compared to previous situations. I woke up after 1h with my heart beating and i knew i had to calm myself down. I stood up did some breathing exercise and drank little dose of glycine. 20 mins later i was able to fall asleep again. Total maybe around 6h.
I would say this sleep disruption either got triggered by jerking twice yesterday or it could be the effects of a herb that i took….

Update:

A lot of stuff happend since I last updated this.

First of all my symptoms that im still dealing with till this day, starting from the worst:

-Insomnia/bad sleep
-Testicle pain/ varicocele and shrinkage, sagging of scrotum etc
-lack of motivation
-bad reaction to heavy workouts
-borderline infertility (low ejaculation volume, watery cum)
-sometimes anhedonia and slight brainfog
-slight depression
-hairloss
-digestive issues which are still occasionally happening
-faccid penis shrinkage and ED
-white hairs, bread and headhair

Some of these symtomes still fluctuate depending on sleep and herbs that i take in a particular day, but unfortunately the testicle stuff only gets worse.

Another couple anomalies that I have which I don’t really read often in PFS cases is that my totalT is consistently over the range. My E2 and my prolactin is also on the upper ranges.

Now after getting the negative stuff out the way. What have i been doing the past few months.

If been tinkering and trying out different herbs the past months and i reduced my rotation to 7 key herbs which i think have the most impact.

1.rhodiola
2.ashwaghanda
3.foti
4.mucuna dopa
5.cordyceps
6.muira puama/tonkat ali
7.shisandra/maca

These herbs definitely have the biggest impact on my body. In the first year of PFS things like tongkat and tribulus seemed to have the biggest impact but nowadays cordyceps and muira puama are the herbs that hit the best. If you have any idea why please let me know why the latter ones make a difference?

The vitamins and supplements that i take are: VitD, Vitk2, fish oil, every other day I take magnesium ,zinc, or vitC.

The next steps that im plan on doing is implementing more HIIT workouts into my routine and decrease the amount of heavy weightlifting that i usually do. I will also have to increase the cold showers in the future because im not consistent with those.

In terms of stuff that i want to try out is a specific strain of probiotic which supposedly helps to get bigger testicles. I will also probably buy me some P5P to counteract the high prolactin levels and maybe get some horsechestnut for the vericocele which developed over time.

Im also looking forward for the first PH run as soon as i have available funds. After that depending on how I progress things like proviron, hcg and clomid will be something that I have to consider.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Readytonut

Update:

A lot of stuff happend since I last updated this.

First of all my symptoms that im still dealing with till this day, starting from the worst:

-Insomnia/bad sleep
-Testicle pain/ varicocele and shrinkage, sagging of scrotum etc
-lack of motivation
-bad reaction to heavy workouts
-borderline infertility (low ejaculation volume, watery cum)
-sometimes anhedonia and slight brainfog
-slight depression
-hairloss
-digestive issues which are still occasionally happening
-faccid penis shrinkage and ED
-white hairs, bread and headhair

Some of these symtomes still fluctuate depending on sleep and herbs that i take in a particular day, but unfortunately the testicle stuff only gets worse.

Another couple anomalies that I have which I don’t really read often in PFS cases is that my totalT is consistently over the range. My E2 and my prolactin is also on the upper ranges.

Now after getting the negative stuff out the way. What have i been doing the past few months.

If been tinkering and trying out different herbs the past months and i reduced my rotation to 7 key herbs which i think have the most impact.

1.rhodiola
2.ashwaghanda
3.foti
4.mucuna dopa
5.cordyceps
6.muira puama/tonkat ali
7.shisandra/maca

These herbs definitely have the biggest impact on my body. In the first year of PFS things like tongkat and tribulus seemed to have the biggest impact but nowadays cordyceps and muira puama are the herbs that hit the best. If you have any idea why please let me know why the latter ones make a difference?

The vitamins and supplements that i take are: VitD, Vitk2, fish oil, every other day I take magnesium ,zinc, or vitC.

The next steps that im plan on doing is implementing more HIIT workouts into my routine and decrease the amount of heavy weightlifting that i usually do. I will also have to increase the cold showers in the future because im not consistent with those.

In terms of stuff that i want to try out is a specific strain of probiotic which supposedly helps to get bigger testicles. I will also probably buy me some P5P to counteract the high prolactin levels and maybe get some horsechestnut for the vericocele which developed over time.

Im also looking forward for the first PH run as soon as i have available funds. After that depending on how I progress things like proviron, hcg and clomid will be something that I have to consider.

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If you continue on the natural path, you won't have to consider the pharms. If anything, you won't want to. Once you get yourself balanced, the last thing you're going to want to put into your system is clomid.

You will get to a point, given enough time, where your natural state feels like you're "on" all the time.