Getting worse after years

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04-09-2022
road to recover

Getting worse after years

Guys I have had PFS for many years. After the initial crash I had all the major sides but after two years insomnia and fatigue healed, and the inital shrinkage had long gone.

For many years I coasted along with "livable" PFS - still had muscle loss and bad ED/libido loss, a bit of tolerable brain fog and apathy/anehdonia.

First tried cdnuts protocol 2014, did a week's water fast and added t boosters but backed off when they started interrupting my sleep and giving me fatigue during the day. Did juice feasts in 2017/18.

in 2019, after years of solid 8 hours sleep without anything, I had stress at work (my PFS became known about). Like the bolied frog I thought I was fine, but started needing to supplement at night to sleep. Eventually I suffered a burnout and rampant insomnia returned. This lasted a year or so before I resolved the situation, just before lockdown.

First lockdown in spring 2020, I was able to cure my sleep issues thanks to this site and reading about both 4-7-8 sleeping method and then magnesium glycinate which I took in ZMA form. This gave me solid 7-8 hours sleep again. In addition, I started doing HIIT sessions 3 times a week and felt fitter than I had in years even before PFS, and that's with muscle wastage. However, the gyms were closed so I couldn't take it further.

February 2021, something happened, I don't know what, but I remember waking up after four hours one night and couldn't get hard. My dick had shrunk and resembled the way it did after the first crash of Pfs - weird, darker skin colour, same skin shade on scrotum and shrinkage of junk all round. The ZMA had stopped working and since then I have struggled to get 7 hours sleep, that's with green tea decaf and an ibuprofen at best, and any time I masturbate it sets me back. I also started getting tinnitus and increase in cognitive issues like name recalling.

I don't even have an urge to fap even watchin porn now. For years although I had poor sexual functioning I could do this a lot and not suffer. I don't know if the isolation and stress of that winter lockdown scarewed me, even just by stressing my system spending too much time on screen late at night, zma stopping working and the effect of not cycling that plus adding zinc during the day.

Basically I think my problems started with stress in 2019, and worried that it has affected my androgen response. At first it seemed like a cortisol issue, now that seems to be ok but my main issue is a much weaker androgen response. I used to be able to cum a few times a week or more and shoot a lot, I could take stuff like vit d, zinc and magnesium and it would boost me, as would the usual t boosting foods. Now these all have a mixed or even sometimes negative response.

Has anyone fell back into a hole after years and seen the protocol drag them out?
04-09-2022
Thetfordboy

mmm see the thing is man the prime instruction is to jump on the protocol and stay on it until you recover. I am sorry for your trouble and hope it passes but you never actually stayed on the protocol in the 1st place. I suppose the only thing you can be told on here is to get on it and stick to it 100 percent otherwise you can't be helped here. The doctrine is that you can take bits and pieces from it and possibly expect some improvement but to recover you have to give it 100 percent and that's being reiterated on many threads.

Also you talk of fatigue etc when doing the protocol, that is said to be the down swings and you are told to hang in when this happens and not abandon it. Look I am not preaching as I am off propecia 5 weeks and am fucked but know that I need to start this protocol 100 percent if I want recovery. But I can't come back to the site and say I half followed it etc later and not recovering when the instruction is 100 percent adherence and it's what we both need to do to stand a chance.
04-13-2022
road to recover

I know my post is a bit propecia helpy in some ways but fuck it, I'm desperate.

Basically the short version: crashed with pFS 2010, lost twenty pounds muscle, severe ed and shrinkage, severe insomnia, anxiety and brain fog.

took two years to dig me out of a hole, but strangely by 2011/12 I could sleep 8 hours easily and depression and fatigue abated. I have no idea how it turned around as I was taking psych meds to help sleep, and was getting drunk once a week so it was hardly driven by healthy lifestyle.

2011-18: very good sleep, good energy, bad sexual sides but my dick and balls hung normally and normal size for years.

2018/19: ended up working with cunts and my PFS got made known about. I was unaffected but hung around too long and it broke my sleep, was back to six hours interrupted,

2020: after a few weeks away from the stress, took ZMA and did 4-7-8. This helped me get back to near normality, and also helped erections, and combined with a fitness regime including HIIT I was fitter than pre-pfs. But fucking lockdowns stopped the gym and beginning weightlifting.

2021: I crashed in Febraury and don't know why. Probably because I constantly ran ZMA for sleep without cycling, also I was drinking coffee and eating chicken thighs every day as a couple of places opened nearby during that horrible winter lockdown. My adrenals probably couldn't handle the espresso caffeine post-stress, and too much zinc when I took it already didn't help. I was probably wanking too much as was stuck in all day, and stayed up late taling to a friend who had moved to the States.

bascially since last Feb my dick shrunk for the first time in a decade since pfs began. It hasn't returned and if I wank too much it gets worse, like just now where it is rubbery and dead. Bear in mind I could wank for years and nothing bad happened. I want to obliterate those cunts who ended up fucking my sleep three years ago.

How do I get out this hole? Did you get your size back?
04-13-2022
Thetfordboy

Again man, the only thing you can be told here is to follow and adhere to the protocol. Have you actually done that?>

I know it sucks but adhering to the protocol is the only valid suggestion on this site for us all.
05-02-2022
Cdsnuts

Quote:

Originally Posted by road to recover

I know my post is a bit propecia helpy in some ways but fuck it, I'm desperate.

Basically the short version: crashed with pFS 2010, lost twenty pounds muscle, severe ed and shrinkage, severe insomnia, anxiety and brain fog.

took two years to dig me out of a hole, but strangely by 2011/12 I could sleep 8 hours easily and depression and fatigue abated. I have no idea how it turned around as I was taking psych meds to help sleep, and was getting drunk once a week so it was hardly driven by healthy lifestyle.

2011-18: very good sleep, good energy, bad sexual sides but my dick and balls hung normally and normal size for years.

2018/19: ended up working with cunts and my PFS got made known about. I was unaffected but hung around too long and it broke my sleep, was back to six hours interrupted,

2020: after a few weeks away from the stress, took ZMA and did 4-7-8. This helped me get back to near normality, and also helped erections, and combined with a fitness regime including HIIT I was fitter than pre-pfs. But fucking lockdowns stopped the gym and beginning weightlifting.

2021: I crashed in Febraury and don't know why. Probably because I constantly ran ZMA for sleep without cycling, also I was drinking coffee and eating chicken thighs every day as a couple of places opened nearby during that horrible winter lockdown. My adrenals probably couldn't handle the espresso caffeine post-stress, and too much zinc when I took it already didn't help. I was probably wanking too much as was stuck in all day, and stayed up late taling to a friend who had moved to the States.

bascially since last Feb my dick shrunk for the first time in a decade since pfs began. It hasn't returned and if I wank too much it gets worse, like just now where it is rubbery and dead. Bear in mind I could wank for years and nothing bad happened. I want to obliterate those cunts who ended up fucking my sleep three years ago.

How do I get out this hole? Did you get your size back?

Okay....blaming others isn't gonna get you shit. So stop wasting the energy you have on that.

And the propecia helpy comment.....where you're like "fuck it"......instead of saying fuck it and complaining, reframe how you think.

Is ZMA on my list?

You realize you're in this spot because of your decisions, correct?

And ALL of you will be in spots if you don't follow exactly what is outlined. At this point it's amusing how many times I can say the same thing for a decade.

For the love of god......just. do. the. protocol.

And stay on it.

That's it.

Really.
06-06-2022
road to recover

I took phenergan (promethazine) to help sleep and while I got six hours I woke up with a dead, very shrunk dick. No more of that. Also took seroquel as it did give me good sleep after my initial PFS, but while it now gives me interrupted deep sleep I don't want the feelin of droggines for half the day.

Just going to rest and shortly do a juice feast of circa three days.

I had kept a sleep journal of sorts since the turn of the year. Initally usually six or seven hours sleep with green tea and ibuprofen. Sleep was going downhill then really went to shit last few weeks. Incidentally I had covid early April and wonder if that played a part? Only felt rough one day, maybe one of those caffeine flu tablets affected me.

I notice that zinc had given me less sleep. In conjunstion with too much fapping at times, I think this is what set me back. Seems I can't handle zinc at all now, after years of it giving me a boost. And whenever I wank I end up with a red mark on the foreskin, so that has to stop.

I also get cold hands and feet now after taking anything else that boosts androgens like vit d.

Hope to god I can get out of this mess via a juice feast.

Can anyone recommend four or five good t boosters to get started with that don't have 5ar properties? I read about another guy who has crashed from cistanche.
06-08-2022
road to recover

Does anyone know if zinc is as potent as araimidex? I may have taken it with zma together or on adjacent days.
06-12-2022
road to recover

Guys in a crash similar to when I first came off fin a decade ago.

about one or two hours sleep unaided, severe mental sides, worst of all losing muscle again and gaining belly fat in a big way.

It seems it was zinc that was causing my issues. After the first post here I was still taking it, when I took that and vit d and energy drinks with b vits it would make my hands and feet cold and I kept doing it.

I only really figured out the culprit after the crash. Thought it was "stress", cortisol or whatever. That probably played a part but it was because I kept taking 5ar inhibitors. What I would say regarding zinc is that it helped or seemed to help during the long years of PFS.

I'm in the "suicide phase" though I don't want to end it. Going to do a full water fast today and maybe tomorrow. I have never got around to buying LE herbs yet, which ones would you recommend? Should I hold off a little bit?
06-21-2022
road to recover

Has anyone reversed muscle wastage? Not muscle atrophy and a little loss, I mean like thighs, ass, arms etc? Feel like a dead man walking right now.
06-21-2022
AltRoute

Yes.
06-24-2022
LetsGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by road to recover

Does anyone know if zinc is as potent as araimidex? I may have taken it with zma together or on adjacent days.

Bro… Why are you taking Arimidex? It’s going to mess up your hormones even more. This protocol does not involve any medications. (My apologies if I misread what you wrote, and you’re not taking Arimidex.) Either way, neither zinc nor ZMA is on the protocol’s herb list.

I'd recommend getting off of ALL the supplements that are not on the list, and forget about self-medicating, as step one. Step two is to go do a medically supervised water fast — ask TrueNorth how long they think you should do. They will probably tell you 2 - 4 weeks, potentially up to 40 days. Go do the water fast and re-feeding at True North. Step three is to do the other parts of the protocol; the diet, the workouts, the HIIT, the herbal rotation, meditation, cold showers, etc.

If you do all of those things, in that order, you will recover just like the other guys who did those exact things in that exact order. I say this to you as someone who got PFS around the same time as you did, and is also working to recover.
06-25-2022
road to recover

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGo

Bro… Why are you taking Arimidex? It’s going to mess up your hormones even more. This protocol does not involve any medications. (My apologies if I misread what you wrote, and you’re not taking Arimidex.) Either way, neither zinc nor ZMA is on the protocol’s herb list.

I'd recommend getting off of ALL the supplements that are not on the list, and forget about self-medicating, as step one. Step two is to go do a medically supervised water fast — ask TrueNorth how long they think you should do. They will probably tell you 2 - 4 weeks, potentially up to 40 days. Go do the water fast and re-feeding at True North. Step three is to do the other parts of the protocol; the diet, the workouts, the HIIT, the herbal rotation, meditation, cold showers, etc.

If you do all of those things, in that order, you will recover just like the other guys who did those exact things in that exact order. I say this to you as someone who got PFS around the same time as you did, and is also working to recover.

Thanks a lot for your imput man. I didn't take Armidex, however after taking ZMA with glycinate for a year (helped me get 7 hours sleep again after stressfull months) it started affecting my dick and my sleep so I dropped it. I slowly recovered over a few months my sleep, sexually was still around baseline. Then at the start of the sthe year my sleep declined, I just think I was taking zinc too frequently, forgot all about it being a 5ari since it worked for me for a long time. I also threw a couple of ZMA from another supplier back in the mix once or twice, as well as low dose pharm drugs for sleep. Whatever it was, crashed me back to ground zero. The reason I asked to compare to Arimidex was I was worried about that rarer post aromatose inhibitor syndrome you sometimes hear about.

I live in Europe so Tru North is out the equation. there are one or two places here that do it, but I will do a water fast of 7-10 days at some point soon.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGo

Bro… Why are you taking Arimidex? It’s going to mess up your hormones even more. This protocol does not involve any medications. (My apologies if I misread what you wrote, and you’re not taking Arimidex.) Either way, neither zinc nor ZMA is on the protocol’s herb list.

I'd recommend getting off of ALL the supplements that are not on the list, and forget about self-medicating, as step one. Step two is to go do a medically supervised water fast — ask TrueNorth how long they think you should do. They will probably tell you 2 - 4 weeks, potentially up to 40 days. Go do the water fast and re-feeding at True North. Step three is to do the other parts of the protocol; the diet, the workouts, the HIIT, the herbal rotation, meditation, cold showers, etc.

If you do all of those things, in that order, you will recover just like the other guys who did those exact things in that exact order. I say this to you as someone who got PFS around the same time as you did, and is also working to recover.

Thanks a lot for your imput man. I didn't take Armidex, however after taking ZMA with glycinate for a year (helped me get 7 hours sleep again after stressfull months) it started affecting my dick and my sleep so I dropped it. I slowly recovered over a few months my sleep, sexually was still around baseline. Then at the start of the sthe year my sleep declined, I just think I was taking zinc too frequently, forgot all about it being a 5ari since it worked for me for a long time. I also threw a couple of ZMA from another supplier back in the mix once or twice, as well as low dose pharm drugs for sleep. Whatever it was, crashed me back to ground zero. The reason I asked to compare to Arimidex was I was worried about that rarer post aromatose inhibitor syndrome you sometimes hear about.

I live in Europe so Tru North is out the equation. there are one or two places here that do it, but I will do a water fast of 7-10 days at some point soon. All the best woth yours.
06-25-2022
LetsGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by road to recover

Thanks a lot for your imput man. I didn't take Armidex, however after taking ZMA with glycinate for a year (helped me get 7 hours sleep again after stressfull months) it started affecting my dick and my sleep so I dropped it. I slowly recovered over a few months my sleep, sexually was still around baseline. Then at the start of the sthe year my sleep declined, I just think I was taking zinc too frequently, forgot all about it being a 5ari since it worked for me for a long time. I also threw a couple of ZMA from another supplier back in the mix once or twice, as well as low dose pharm drugs for sleep. Whatever it was, crashed me back to ground zero. The reason I asked to compare to Arimidex was I was worried about that rarer post aromatose inhibitor syndrome you sometimes hear about.

I live in Europe so Tru North is out the equation. there are one or two places here that do it, but I will do a water fast of 7-10 days at some point soon.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks a lot for your imput man. I didn't take Armidex, however after taking ZMA with glycinate for a year (helped me get 7 hours sleep again after stressfull months) it started affecting my dick and my sleep so I dropped it. I slowly recovered over a few months my sleep, sexually was still around baseline. Then at the start of the sthe year my sleep declined, I just think I was taking zinc too frequently, forgot all about it being a 5ari since it worked for me for a long time. I also threw a couple of ZMA from another supplier back in the mix once or twice, as well as low dose pharm drugs for sleep. Whatever it was, crashed me back to ground zero. The reason I asked to compare to Arimidex was I was worried about that rarer post aromatose inhibitor syndrome you sometimes hear about.

I live in Europe so Tru North is out the equation. there are one or two places here that do it, but I will do a water fast of 7-10 days at some point soon. All the best woth yours.

I would avoid the pharma drugs for sleep. They’re unhealthy and are only even approved and tested for short term use, two weeks maximum. (For people with PFS, it should not be used at all.) Not safe to take them daily for extended periods, you will become dependent on them, and I have also heard of a PFS-like syndrome (loss of libido) from Ambien and similar drugs.

You need to meditate for 10 to 20 minutes every morning, it will help you with sleep. You can also use the sleep herbs listed on the website.

I think you are feeling very anxious, and that’s the main thing hurting your sleep, not PFS itself. You need to tackle the anxiety to get better sleep.

Also I would personally aim for longer than just 7 to 10 days of water fasting, although I’m sure it would still help. I would look at 15 days. I’m doing 21 days now, and I’m on day 3. The only reason I’m not doing 30 is that I have to move next month and I need to re-feed and recover from that. Otherwise I’d do 28 or 30 days. I’m still somewhat considering 28 days…

Everyone with PFS who has done a long, strict water fast has made significant, permanent gains in relief from their symptoms. I would not try to do the absolute minimum, because going 2 weeks is more than twice as good as 1 week. If you can find a place in Europe to do it, I would just go for that. I’m rooting for you to succeed. Let’s both get better.
07-24-2023
Zerolibido

What a fucking idiot