Big mistake, vitamin B crashed me badly

I wanted to kill my tinnitus so I ordered some B vitamins. I made sure to avoid methyl vitamins to avoid methyl crashes as I have seen reported.

I still got fucked. Went to bed last night and had all the symptoms of my first crash. Mega anxiety, jitters, insomnia, rubbery dick, huge tinnitus, no libido. Slept 3 hours, which has never happened since January.

Woke up this morning and I'm still fucked. However I had morning wood and I could get an erection, so I guess I am not back to ground zero.

I feel hopeless and terrified. I was doing so good. Whats the plan from here? Keep the cycle? Stop the cycle and fast?

I need help guys :/

Are you 100% positively sure you didnt have an anxiety attack because of the idea playing in your mind that B's could fuck you up?

Saying this because I had an anxiety attack just moving the box of fin to my trash recently, because I could not stop thinking about absurd scenario's where airborn fin molecules would touch my skin and make me crash.

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Originally Posted by Mojo

Are you 100% positively sure you didnt have an anxiety attack because of the idea playing in your mind that B's could fuck you up?

Saying this because I had an anxiety attack just moving the box of fin to my trash recently, because I could not stop thinking about absurd scenario's where airborn fin molecules would touch my skin and make me crash.

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I'm positive.

I took the vitamin in the afternoon and never thought about it until I was lying in my bed with tinglings limbs, mega anxiety and insomnia. Also when testing my junk this morning, erections were noticeably harder to get, and it was much harder to feel orgasm coming (whereas for the last 5 months I had massive premature ejaculation)

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

I'm positive.

I took the vitamin in the afternoon and never thought about it until I was lying in my bed with tinglings limbs, mega anxiety and insomnia. Also when testing my junk this morning, erections were noticeably harder to get, and it was much harder to feel orgasm coming (whereas for the last 5 months I had massive premature ejaculation)

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It was a little hard for me to tell, but are you on cycle with pro-hormones?

I'm not sure what your baseline currently is, but I noticed as I got better my crashes lasted less and less time if I accidently ate or took something that badly effected me. It got down to a few days to a week where I would recover from a crash and I'd know not to touch that again, so it's very possible you're just in for a few rough days. The important thing isn't to freak out. It's gonna suck for a little bit, but you'll pull through soon.

If you're NOT on a PH cycle, I found that mega dosing Tonget Ali, Tribulus, Pine Powder, and Shilajit for a day or two helped right the ship more quickly before resuming my regular herb cycle.

And honestly, I feel like there should be a sticky thread in this form with a list of foods/supplements to avoid. It would make things way easier for everyone and help prevent situations like this. Now, just to be on the safe side, I often search for a compound or food on this forum that I'm not sure of because I'm that paranoid of 5AR inhibiters in my daily life going forward. I ain't going through PFS again.

EDIT: Also, take some L-Theanine and do some Wim Hoff breathing man. Focus on your breathing and try to calm down. If you can't sleep, get up and do some yoga or watch a comfort show. This'll be over before you know it.

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Originally Posted by Master Mal

It was a little hard for me to tell, but are you on cycle with pro-hormones?

I'm not sure what your baseline currently is, but I noticed as I got better my crashes lasted less and less time if I accidently ate or took something that badly effected me. It got down to a few days to a week where I would recover from a crash and I'd know not to touch that again, so it's very possible you're just in for a few rough days. The important thing isn't to freak out. It's gonna suck for a little bit, but you'll pull through soon.

If you're NOT on a PH cycle, I found that mega dosing Tonget Ali, Tribulus, Pine Powder, and Shilajit for a day or two helped right the ship more quickly before resuming my regular herb cycle.

And honestly, I feel like there should be a sticky thread in this form with a list of foods/supplements to avoid. It would make things way easier for everyone and help prevent situations like this. Now, just to be on the safe side, I often search for a compound or food on this forum that I'm not sure of because I'm that paranoid of 5AR inhibiters in my daily life going forward. I ain't going through PFS again.

EDIT: Also, take some L-Theanine and do some Wim Hoff breathing man. Focus on your breathing and try to calm down. If you can't sleep, get up and do some yoga or watch a comfort show. This'll be over before you know it.

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Thanks for the response. Yes I'm on 4 pumps of Ultrahard and 4 pumps AlphaFour since 2 weeks.

I also make sure to avoid 5ar foods if I can, but honestly for the last weeks I was eating tomatoes and salmon with no problem. I don't understand how the B Complex can do that, since there is no methyl in it.

I have not had any major setback like this, so this is terrifying. This week I made out with my first girl since PFS, and I was expecting to sleep with her on Wednesday. Which is huge when you see the abyss from which I came in December. So it's hard to take mentally, and to see my rubbery libido-less dick.

Reading this morning on propeciahelp that a guy committed suicide after a methyl crash probably doesn't help either.

Well, if I got 80% better in 6 months of protocol, I guess I can do it again

Now that I think about it, I also took almost a double dose of tongkat ali on Tuesday night, before seeing the girl.

Is it possible that taking a potent herb while on cycle can crash you with a 1 day delay?

Im just trying to figure this out

Well, first of all I wouldn't take an herb while cycling. I don't *think* that crashed you though. I'd take a cialis or viagra instead. They're good to use in a clutch situation.

And yeah, tomatoes and salmon ain't gonna fuck with you if you're doing well in my experience. I ate sushi even during my worst days and it didn't set me back. I'd watch the tomatoes due to inflammation, though. Tumeric was the one that did me in. I fucking love curry and can absolutely eat it, but eating it for a week straight (I meal prep) has caused me to slip.

I completely understand feeling anxious about hooking up with someone during a crash. If you need to call it off, tell her you don't feel well and promise to reschedule and she'll totally understand. You can also just tell her you're feeling crappy, aren't up for sex, but really want to see her so offer to take her out to dinner and make out with her a little outside the restaurant before you say goodbye. That one has worked for me.

And for the love of god, STAY OFF PROPECIA HELP. That place will only make you feel worse.

Throw away the B-vitamins. (if you really need something like them, try niacinamide. It's great for to take with prohormones and herbs). Chill out, and let this pass. You're probably not going to be fucked for six months. At the VERY MOST (in my experience), it'll be three weeks. But it'll probably be closer to a week if you treat your body right. Since on your on cycle, you may bounce back sooner, but you might want to consider ending your cycle early and restarting when you feel better.

I don't want to be that guy, but noone else will so:

You need to get out of your own head man, the way you talk about this seems a tad too obsessive and overthinking.

But I'm guilty of that too. And these crashes happen to me as well. As soon as you buckle up and get a positive mindset back you get out of this faster than you think. Please don't underestimate the insidious nature of anxious thinking. It destroys people, not just the ones with PFS.

If I was in your place right now I'd hit it hard with some wim hoff and mindfulness excercises. If you have a sauna in your gym go bake for a bit and take an ice cold shower straight after.

If you indeed crashed of these vitamins, shit might suck for a bit but its not over, we have anecdotal evidence right here on this forum. So face that shit and grind the pain out.

And about procepiahelp: there is really no reason at all to go there man. I get you wanted some kind of confirmation or insight about the methyls but reading anything on that site will more likely be negative and unhelpful.

Thank you for both your responses, I truly appreciate it. Thanks for being there when I truly need it. I take notes of everything you said.

I had tinnitus and sound sensitivity, but they were slowlyyy going away. Since I went for dental cleaning with ultrasonic tools on tuesday, they are way higher. But ever since the vitamin B crash the next night, it's not livable. Grilling chicken in the pan is too noisy for my ears.

Does anyone have experience with hyperacusis like that? Is it possible that the dental cleaning caused permanent damage to my pfs damaged ears? Or will it just cause a temporary spike?

I had some good hyperacusis in February but it got much better. I am just concerned that since this spike got caused by acoustic trauma rather than finasteride, that it may be harder to reverse.

I am working on being less overthinking. If my ears were fine, I would be hopeful about bouncing back from this episode

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

Thank you for both your responses, I truly appreciate it. Thanks for being there when I truly need it. I take notes of everything you said.

I had tinnitus and sound sensitivity, but they were slowlyyy going away. Since I went for dental cleaning with ultrasonic tools on tuesday, they are way higher. But ever since the vitamin B crash the next night, it's not livable. Grilling chicken in the pan is too noisy for my ears.

Does anyone have experience with hyperacusis like that? Is it possible that the dental cleaning caused permanent damage to my pfs damaged ears? Or will it just cause a temporary spike?

I had some good hyperacusis in February but it got much better. I am just concerned that since this spike got caused by acoustic trauma rather than finasteride, that it may be harder to reverse.

I am working on being less overthinking. If my ears were fine, I would be hopeful about bouncing back from this episode

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I admit I never got tinnitus, even though I hear it's a common symptom. It might be worth investing in a white noise machine? Even after you recover they're mighty handy.

And look, I've crashed plenty. It was a helluva time figuring out what my body was cool with and what it absolutely couldn't tolerate. Some things that make other people crash don't effect me at all and vice versa. But I always bounced back. Always. Your body wants to fix itself.

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

I wanted to kill my tinnitus so I ordered some B vitamins. I made sure to avoid methyl vitamins to avoid methyl crashes as I have seen reported.

I still got fucked. Went to bed last night and had all the symptoms of my first crash. Mega anxiety, jitters, insomnia, rubbery dick, huge tinnitus, no libido. Slept 3 hours, which has never happened since January.

Woke up this morning and I'm still fucked. However I had morning wood and I could get an erection, so I guess I am not back to ground zero.

I feel hopeless and terrified. I was doing so good. Whats the plan from here? Keep the cycle? Stop the cycle and fast?

I need help guys :/

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You’ll be fine dude. You gotta relax. Like others have said, it seems like you overthink things too much. B vitamins, from my experiences, alter your neurotransmitters. I could take vitamins D, C or whatever as much as I want with no effect, but if I take B12, I’ll see a difference, good or bad. Neurotransmitters are a huge part of PFS. You just altered them… temporarily. Chill my guy.

As far as the propeciahelp “suicide guy”… I know who you are referring to. He talked about CD like he didn’t actually have PFS because he “responsed to prohormones”. That dude thought his androgens were so bad off that anyone with real PFS wouldn’t respond to prohormones. Which is actually the opposite. If you don’t respond to prohormones, either you’re not that bad off, or you haven’t put in the work to feel them. I don’t doubt he had PFS, but I know he didn’t put in the work.

He also posted to Phoenix rising (a CFS forum I frequented after my vitamin B crash) claiming he crashed off of methyls, and instead of fixing it, like I did, he killed himself. Don’t listen to the words he wrote. It’s sad what happened to him, but he’s a bad example of what could happen if you don’t put in the effort to get better. He never did anything but complain. He put forth the effort to make videos about how depressed he was about PFS, but never committed to a cure. Get your mind straight and stop paying attention to bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Master Mal

I admit I never got tinnitus, even though I hear it's a common symptom. It might be worth investing in a white noise machine? Even after you recover they're mighty handy.

And look, I've crashed plenty. It was a helluva time figuring out what my body was cool with and what it absolutely couldn't tolerate. Some things that make other people crash don't effect me at all and vice versa. But I always bounced back. Always. Your body wants to fix itself.

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Thanks Mal, I'll look into it. I recently started sleeping with pink noise to help with hyperacusis, for which apparently silence must be avoided.

My biggest problem is that tinnitus and hyperacusis are considered permanent conditions outside of PFS, so I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that they might leave when I recover.

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

You’ll be fine dude. You gotta relax. Like others have said, it seems like you overthink things too much. B vitamins, from my experiences, alter your neurotransmitters. I could take vitamins D, C or whatever as much as I want with no effect, but if I take B12, I’ll see a difference, good or bad. Neurotransmitters are a huge part of PFS. You just altered them… temporarily. Chill my guy.

As far as the propeciahelp “suicide guy”… I know who you are referring to. I hate to say this, but that guy was weak. He talked about CD like he didn’t actually have PFS because he “responsed to prohormones”. That dude thought his androgens were so bad off that anyone with real PFS wouldn’t respond to prohormones. Which is actually the opposite. If you don’t respond to prohormones, either you’re not that bad off, or you haven’t put in the work to feel them. I don’t doubt he had PFS, but I know he didn’t put in the work.

He also posted to Phoenix rising (a CFS forum I frequented after my vitamin B crash) claiming he crashed off of methyls, and instead of fixing it, like I did, he killed himself. Don’t listen to the words he wrote. It’s sad what happened to him, but he’s a bad example of what could happen if you don’t put in the effort to get better. He never did anything but complain. He put forth the effort to make videos about how depressed he was about PFS, but never committed to a cure. Get your mind straight and stop paying attention to bullshit.

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Thanks Turnover.

Anything I should do to fix it? I remember reading that you used other B vitamins to fix it, but I'm way too scared of anything B related right now to do that. Protocol should be enough?

How long should it take to fix my neurotransmitters? I read that Epiandro affects Gaba, so should I stop the cycle to speed the recovery, or is it the opposite?

I am not familiar with crashes, but if I have Day 0 symptoms, it doesn't mean I'm back to Day 0 progress wise right?

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

Thanks Turnover.

Anything I should do to fix it? I remember reading that you used other B vitamins to fix it, but I'm way too scared of anything B related right now to do that. Protocol should be enough?

How long should it take to fix my neurotransmitters? I read that Epiandro affects Gaba, so should I stop the cycle to speed the recovery, or is it the opposite?

I am not familiar with crashes, but if I have Day 0 symptoms, it doesn't mean I'm back to Day 0 progress wise right?

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I had to use B vitamins to fix my crash because mine were methylated. For you that isn’t an issue, it’ll go away on its own. Just stick to the protocol. And no that’s not what it means, you’ll go back to baseline eventually. Pretty sure everyone here has crashed themselves at least once trying shit, as long as you didn’t take fin again you won’t ever put yourself back to day 0.

And I attribute some of my success to vitamin B, but mostly pro-hormones. I’d be focusing on those more than B. Also if you’re on cycle, there’s a chance you’re just in a gnarly downswing. They are more pronounced on cycle.

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

I had to use B vitamins to fix my crash because mine were methylated. For you that isn’t an issue, it’ll go away on its own. Just stick to the protocol. And no that’s not what it means, you’ll go back to baseline eventually. Pretty sure everyone here has crashed themselves at least once trying shit, as long as you didn’t take fin again you won’t ever put yourself back to day 0.

And I attribute some of my success to vitamin B, but mostly pro-hormones. I’d be focusing on those more than B. Also if you’re on cycle, there’s a chance you’re just in a gnarly downswing. They are more pronounced on cycle.

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Thanks I'll stick to the protocol and see what happens.

I wish this was a downswing but it's a crash. I lost a bit on the sexual side, but it's mostly the mental that is completely fucked. Fatigue, weak muscles, anxiety, derealisation, anhedonia. That's all back.

But the worst of it is the intensified hyperacusis and tinnitus. Drawers from 2 rooms away hurt my ears. I am broken. The dental cleaning 100% made it worse, but it looks like the B made it unbearable.

I feel bad for my family because I truly don't know if I'm strong enough to go through this. I need my ears back. Thank you everyone for the encouragements.

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

Thanks I'll stick to the protocol and see what happens.

I wish this was a downswing but it's a crash. I lost a bit on the sexual side, but it's mostly the mental that is completely fucked. Fatigue, weak muscles, anxiety, derealisation, anhedonia. That's all back.

But the worst of it is the intensified hyperacusis and tinnitus. Drawers from 2 rooms away hurt my ears. I am broken. The dental cleaning 100% made it worse, but it looks like the B made it unbearable.

I feel bad for my family because I truly don't know if I'm strong enough to go through this. I need my ears back. Thank you everyone for the encouragements.

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Yeah bro, I have the upmost confidence you’ll swing back and be fine. I don’t know what else to say besides I crashed to the depths of hell last year, it sent me to the emergency room. I literally thought my health was in danger. I don’t think it gets much worse than how it went for me, and now I’m fine. I was sprinting down the street because my anxiety was so intense that I needed to run. Hard to explain, absolute nightmare.

Don’t think about suicide, that shit is the dumbest thing you could possibly do. Permanent solution for a temporary problem, doesn’t add up in my eyes. Just give it some time and listen to all of us here who have crashed and come back, you’ll be fine. I guess it was time for you to earn your stripes. Nobody gets out of this thing unscathed.

Yeah, I'm willing to bet in a week or two tops you're gonna bounce right back.

Honestly, aside from the lost time the worst part about PFS is the PTSD it gives you about so fucking much. Even when you recover or feel 100% you're still watching out for what might you throw your system off because NEVER AGAIN.

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Originally Posted by Master Mal

Yeah, I'm willing to bet in a week or two tops you're gonna bounce right back.

Honestly, aside from the lost time the worst part about PFS is the PTSD it gives you about so fucking much. Even when you recover or feel 100% you're still watching out for what might you throw your system off because NEVER AGAIN.

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I’ve wondered about this. This has changed my entire perspective on life. When I recover I know I’ll always have it in the back of my mind that I’m only one accidental slip up away from going back to this hell. Weird shit

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

I’ve wondered about this. This has changed my entire perspective on life. When I recover I know I’ll always have it in the back of my mind that I’m only one accidental slip up away from going back to this hell. Weird shit

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Yeah man. It's great having (mostly) beaten this thing, but I really miss the days of being care free ya know? I know you have to watch out for your health as you get older, but this is a whole other level.

CD has said numerous times he can indulge in pretty much anything. Once your body is back into homeostasis and you have worked on your mental health there will be no reason at all anything will set you back unless you get back on fin or something.

Like you said Mal, its just a connection you made in your brain that has to lose strength over time. But it will, and a care free life is possible. It all depends on how you process these memories and cope with the trauma.

It is very unfair and frustrating, but the more you freak out about feeling bad, the longer it will take for you to 'forget' these connections and not have triggering thoughts about everything.

Thanks guys it means the world to have some support from dudes online. I have to get my head straight and remember how well I was doing, and that it's gonna be quicker to reach baseline this time.

So you guys think the increased hyperacusis from the dentist will be temporary? Since the B Complex affects neurotransmitters, can it also be the cause of the increased tinnitus and hyperacusis? It did get even worse after the B. Don't want to overthink but this is so unbearable I'm trying to rationalize it.

I am confident I can conquer this crash, because my December crash was nastier and I became functional in 6 months. I am just petrified to have permanent damage to my weakened pfs ears and I am scared

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

Thanks guys it means the world to have some support from dudes online. I have to get my head straight and remember how well I was doing, and that it's gonna be quicker to reach baseline this time.

So you guys think the increased hyperacusis from the dentist will be temporary? Since the B Complex affects neurotransmitters, can it also be the cause of the increased tinnitus and hyperacusis? It did get even worse after the B. Don't want to overthink but this is so unbearable I'm trying to rationalize it.

I am confident I can conquer this crash, because my December crash was nastier and I became functional in 6 months. I am just petrified to have permanent damage to my weakened pfs ears and I am scared

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I don’t know what hyperacusis means. What I can tell you is that if the problem came from fin… the protocol we’re all doing here will fix it.

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

I don’t know what hyperacusis means. What I can tell you is that if the problem came from fin… the protocol we’re all doing here will fix it.

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It's sound sensitivity.

PFS gave it to me along with tinnitus, and both symptoms got gradually better over the span of 9 months. Then the dental cleaning made them really bad, and then the B Complex crash made it worse.

I know they were caused by PFS, but I don't know if a big noise accident can make them a condition on their own, since they can also both be caused by noise.

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Originally Posted by Mojo

CD has said numerous times he can indulge in pretty much anything. Once your body is back into homeostasis and you have worked on your mental health there will be no reason at all anything will set you back unless you get back on fin or something.

Like you said Mal, its just a connection you made in your brain that has to lose strength over time. But it will, and a care free life is possible. It all depends on how you process these memories and cope with the trauma.

It is very unfair and frustrating, but the more you freak out about feeling bad, the longer it will take for you to 'forget' these connections and not have triggering thoughts about everything.

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I've had an intense anxiety disorder even before PFS (abusive upbringing), and I have no doubt that it contributed to me getting PFS to begin with. It's hard to have peace of mind. I've done therapy, but it's a tough beast to muzzle.

Case in point - I have this keto nut cereal I really enjoy to snack on every day while cooking. I just pop some into my mouth. I realized a few weeks ago that it has pumpkin seeds in it. Even though it hasn't hurt me at all, I still threw it in the garbage. I just didn't need the possibility in my head.

It's the same disorder that led to me getting chronic pelvic pain. I'm just working hard to keep it quiet.

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

It's sound sensitivity.

PFS gave it to me along with tinnitus, and both symptoms got gradually better over the span of 9 months. Then the dental cleaning made them really bad, and then the B Complex crash made it worse.

I know they were caused by PFS, but I don't know if a big noise accident can make them a condition on their own, since they can also both be caused by noise.

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Just sounds to me like you are early in your journey to still be worrying about this stuff, it won’t always be like this. My first year or so, I had to worry about going to the dentist, eating at family events, shit like that just because my body was so sensitive to what I put in it. This will stop. It’s probably the first thing to stop in my experience. Eventually you’ll still have PFS but things won’t throw you off course as much.

You’re totally psyching yourself out. A year from now, if you stick to it and make good strides, you’re gonna read these posts and not understand why you were so freaked out. Pretty sure everyone here that’s been here for a while and done what they need to do can attest to that.