Clomid increases test.
One would think with the increased test, it would have an anabolic effect so long as one controls estrogen.
Why doesn't this seem to be the case?
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Clomid increases test.
One would think with the increased test, it would have an anabolic effect so long as one controls estrogen.
Why doesn't this seem to be the case?
As far as I'm aware that is the case, isn't it? The dosing of the substance just has massive diminishing returns and higher dosing won't really raise your test to a level that could be matched by exogenous test etc. I would guess that somebody with sub normal test treated with Clomid would find anabolic benefits from the high normal levels of teat.
for me it is very much anabolic; it brings my t levels from like 450 to 1100... Big difference in the gym and mirror. It just also fucks my night vision and doesn't help my libido.
So if you run clomid as an anabolic, what do you prefer to stack it with to aid in libido? Proviron?
Do you then also run clomid while on cycle?
Clomid is such an interesting compound. And aren't they coming out with androlex or something that is like clomid but with out the estrogen chain?
I learn so much on here, thanks again.
Running Clomid on cycle would be pointless because you'd have to biological processes in play (the cycled compound suppressing your HTPA and the Clomid attempting to restore it, with the cycled compound winning).Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanksgiving
As for running Proviron with Clomid, I dunno. The jury's out on just how suppressive DHT might be to the HTPA axis. There is conflicting data on the topic.
But I'd look more at Clomid as a restorative compound and not count on it for an anabolic. That's what you have hormones for.
To further add to the using proviron on cycle thing. None of us would run a DHT prohormone without at least a natty pct. Better safe than sorry, no hormones during pct.
I dropped proviron in along with clomid and an AI under the care of an endo a couple years back, and it did nothing for libido.
Clomid raised my T to the top of range, but I felt terrible on it. Probably due to the screwy effects it can have on estrogen.
Estrogen control was impossible for me on clomid, and several endo's have indicated to me that this is common for many.
It also fucked my night vision massively as Weekend says, and I still have light sensitivity issues at night to this day because of it.
I know it works great at restoring T levels for many, but from personal experience I would now avoid it like the plague.
Have you looked into Novaldex? This is supposedly more side effect friendly than clomid. Also, from what I understand, these SERMs will only block the receptor and not actually reduce estrogen in the body. I would expect the aromatase enzyme to increase as a result unless extremestane is used along side. Others on this forum will likely know more as I haven't used a SERM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanksgiving
@swill: what dosage were you using
@silverstrand: I have experience with nolva and it didn't go well. Side effects are minimal for me at 12.5 mg of clomid daily
He tinkered with doses including 50, 20, 12.5mg a day down to 12.5 EOD and 12.5mg E3D over the course of the year to try and illicit a positive response. Each dose kept my T very high up, and at the same time each dose also made me feel terrible, particularly sexually and emotionally. And as I said, the night vision issues remain over 18 months on and are really unpleasant.
@swill
Did you stack with anything such as an AI?
Yes, He tried both Anastrozole and Exemestane at varying doses right up to the full daily dose used for breast cancer treatment, none made me feel any better. It also didn't lower my E blood reading AT ALL, although I have read since that blood labs for E are meaningless whilst you are on clomid due to the effect the drug has on a mechanism in the brain - can't remember the exact science...someone here may know it a lot better than me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanksgiving
... The supposed "reputable" endo was using bloods to judge your estrogen on a serm? AFAIK your estrogen will be higher on a serm as it just blocks the receptors. The raise it in T only happens cause you need the T to produce more estrogen. Its weird that AIs caused no change in bloods though..Quote:
Originally Posted by Swill
That's it I think Entropy, thanks. Dr Khera explained it to me along the lines of 'it works by making your brain think there is pretty much no estrogen, and as such you can get low estrogen side effects despite there being an abundance.'Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
The 'supposed reputable' endo is Dr Crisler (All Things Male, based out of Lansing Michigan) and is an absolute fraudster with a God complex. He has been purporting to having the answer for a lot of people to finasteride related issues since around 2009, and as a result the early days of being hit with this thing I flew over to him and went under his care. He couldn't help and I dumped him when I realised I was being used as a guinea pig somewhat and paying for the privilege after 6 months. He is an anti-ageing doc and has his own forum and is apparently well respected particularly by many in the bodybuilding movement. He also didn't send me a product I ordered off him for 8 months and stopped replying to emails regarding it, and in the end I had to claim the money back through my credit card company. Total fraudster. He claimed to be cutting edge but the guy had never ever used exemestane before me... hindsight is a great thing.
But yeah, it was weird that an AI didn't touch the E level in my bloods, and this was also supported by several 24 hour urine panels each time. One month he increased my AI dose substantially and we tested a month later and my E had actually risen. The stuff I was using was legit UK scripted stuff through my GP too so no doubts about that. The doc said he had never seen anyone aromatise like me ever. But it seems I just didn't get on well with Clomid, I can boost my T levels with herbs and successfully hammer down my Estrogen with an AI (exemestane), as I have found out with bloods this month.
Firstly, increase of testosterone on clomiphene is not really that significant,Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanksgiving
Secondly, for anabolism you need other raise some other hormone levels (for example IGF) and sometimes IGF levels while on clomiphene drops (dont know exact details here)
Also E2 has impact on IGF levels and some other levels, and it needs to be in optimum levels as well- if its too low then its hard to get any anabolism and if its o high than body starts packing up fat rather tham muscles, and its hard to get correct E2 blood results while on SERMS also most of AI's reduce IGF levels on its own (aromasin does not)
Also low estrogens also weakens bones (every time AI's are used vitamin D should be added/dosages increase)
And SERMS also have negative impact on libido which is big deterent for most of people