Slade's Recovery Log

Hi Everyone,

Long time pfs guy here, took the poison back in 2011 when I was just 18. Just a week on, felt terrible, threw the bottle away and crashed hard. All the symptoms from no libido to lethargy and huge brain fog.

Since then I have spent most of the years on raypeatforum.com, eating a high sugar, low pufa diet. Drinking lots of coffee too. I improved somewhat, but really only started feeling better after I began taking DHEA/Pregnenelone, which gave me a little boost in DHT and Allopregnenalone. I also tried taking thyroid for the last year or so, because it is supposed to upregulate 5ar. A few weeks ago I dropped all thyroid, hormones and began to finally lower my coffee intake (was drinking like as much as 50oz each day!), to see where my baseline was. I felt pretty crappy. I still have brain fog, lowish libido, and now I have nerve pains in my forearms, hands and back. I also get headaches, earaches and a strange pressure in the back of my head/neck which is worrisome. My nerves are sick of this, it's been 8 years, I need to recover!

So I decided to totally shift gears and dive into the TMO protocol:
-I have started the paleo diet with carb backloading and am feeling less anxious (less coffee and sugar I assume)
-trying to do the workouts with weights, but so far my joint pain is preventing me from going hard.
-I want to order the herbs but am confused as to which ones I should start with and how to cycle them.
-I orderred some Androhard and am really hoping a cycle will improve my symptoms!

I have plenty of questions:
What kind of foods are good for carb backloading? Is pasta okay? Juices? Milk?
How do you cycle the herbs? Just pick any 4 and go? There are so many of them, I don't know where to start.

Any advice and support is VERY APPRECIATED. I am just sick to death of this holding me back for so long....

Hey, you must be sladerunner69 i remember reading your post about pfs over there in my darkest days!

You should read the whole TMO website but to answer your questions, for carb backloading use complex carbs like sweet potatos, potatos, glutenfree pasta, corncrackers, glutenfree oats... Yes, i drink lactosefree milk and i make my own fruit juices. You can cycle any of the herbs listed, each one day with the suggested dosage on the bottle. My first herbs were tongkat, tribulus, butea superba, cordyceps, pine pollen, mucuna.

Didnt you already cycled androsterone? I think you reported about improved sensitivity but got headaches from it so you decided you wanna go with niacinamide!?

You got this!

For the herbs, it is important to cycle at least 7 minimum. If you can afford it, it would be even better to cycle 21 herbs. You take one dose of one herb per day, and move that herb to the back of the pile. This prevents you from building a tolerance to that herb; if you take any herb too regularly, you will quickly build up a tolerance and it will lose its effectiveness.

The pro-hormones should only be considered after you have been doing the program for at least several months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Samsemilia

Hey, you must be sladerunner69 i remember reading your post about pfs over there in my darkest days!

You should read the whole TMO website but to answer your questions, for carb backloading use complex carbs like sweet potatos, potatos, glutenfree pasta, corncrackers, glutenfree oats... Yes, i drink lactosefree milk and i make my own fruit juices. You can cycle any of the herbs listed, each one day with the suggested dosage on the bottle. My first herbs were tongkat, tribulus, butea superba, cordyceps, pine pollen, mucuna.

Didnt you already cycled androsterone? I think you reported about improved sensitivity but got headaches from it so you decided you wanna go with niacinamide!?

You got this!

---

Wow I'm glad I could help! I know those days seemed impossibly rough.

Niacinamide certainly helps but did not completely cure me. I am now looking to get back to 100% and beyond.

Yes I did take a very little androsterone - probably just 10-20mg. It is hard to say because it was 1mg suspended in dmso, so the potency is unknown. I only used it once in a while, because I didn't see it as a potential cure, and probably only doses it fewer than 10 times total. So, this was nowhere near the 400mg-600mg daily dosage being recommended here. Further, after thinking about it recently, I realized that I had bad reactions to all of the DMSO supplements. They would give me headaches and make my eyes hurt, from progesterone to keto dht etc. I am thinking maybe it wasn't the androsterone after all, and it is definitely worth another try.

Okay I did go through the entire site and it is now much more clear. What did you notice when cycling the herbs? They are fairly expensive and I am going to have to save up a bit more before I can order them.

Also, are you drinking juice/milk during the day or just for carb backloading? I am wondering what a safe amount of carbohydrate/sugar is during the day. I think I feel better after having fruit and juice, and am used to trying to keep my blood sugar stable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LetsGo

For the herbs, it is important to cycle at least 7 minimum. If you can afford it, it would be even better to cycle 21 herbs. You take one dose of one herb per day, and move that herb to the back of the pile. This prevents you from building a tolerance to that herb; if you take any herb too regularly, you will quickly build up a tolerance and it will lose its effectiveness.

The pro-hormones should only be considered after you have been doing the program for at least several months.

---

Great, I will definitely try that once I have ordered 7 herbs. I can't afford much right now. What did you notice from the herb rotation? Many positives?

Also I ordered some prohormones but am now thinking it may be best to wait it out. I have been trying quite hard to eat cleanly and live very low stress for years, but it hasn't seemed to do all that much for increasing my 5ar. I have taken androsterone/dht in the past, with good effects, but never stuck with it, and used very small amounts.

When I tried 5-keto DHT for the first time a few years ago I felt awesome, like I was nearly cured. All anxiety gone. After a few days I began to get tired though, so I stopped. I probably should have marched on with it, as the dht does help to improve 5ar and ultimately heal us. Instead, I switched back to dhea/pregnenelone/coffee.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slader1

Great, I will definitely try that once I have ordered 7 herbs. I can't afford much right now. What did you notice from the herb rotation? Many positives?

Also I ordered some prohormones but am now thinking it may be best to wait it out. I have been trying quite hard to eat cleanly and live very low stress for years, but it hasn't seemed to do all that much for increasing my 5ar. I have taken androsterone/dht in the past, with good effects, but never stuck with it, and used very small amounts.

When I tried 5-keto DHT for the first time a few years ago I felt awesome, like I was nearly cured. All anxiety gone. After a few days I began to get tired though, so I stopped. I probably should have marched on with it, as the dht does help to improve 5ar and ultimately heal us. Instead, I switched back to dhea/pregnenelone/coffee.

---

Personally, I have felt the most noticable results from pine pollen tincture, by far. The regular pine pollen also gives me more noticable results than the other herbs. If you have a limited budget, I’d put the pine pollen tincture at the top of the list. Lost Empire also has some one-time discount codes you can find online, for like 20% off, but it’s better to use that for a large order since you can only use it once. And I’d order through CDsnuts’s affiliate link to help him out for everything he does, for free, to help guys in this situation. He could have kept his secret to himself instead of sharing it, and facing backlash from the PH forum. But he didn’t, and so I think it’s fair for him to get a cut of the small amount of money we spend on the herbs.

I consistently had bad reactions to Eluthero - I got extreme insomnia every time I took the recommended two doses. However, I'm extremely sensitive to stimulants. If I have a small coffee at 8 AM, I will be wide awake at 2:30 AM, wondering why I can’t fall asleep. If I have two cups of coffee, I feel a mild euphoric buzz for a few hours afterwards - yes, I literally get high on coffee. If you have normal sensitivity to stimulants like coffee then you should be fine with eluthero, but it’s a good idea to see if any of the herbs cause you problems like that.

The herb rotation, etc, led to noticable gains pretty quickly, and there were times when I felt cured for 3 - 10 days at a time. Other times, like now, are slump times. However, I think there’s an overall upward trend, and if you compare my slumps now to the ones before, there is still upward progress.

Reducing your stress and eating cleanly are necessary, but not sufficient. Same thing with sleep. You won’t get cured if you’re sleeping 4 hours a night, but getting 8 or 9 hours per night also won’t cure you. You have to be doing a whole bunch of things right, on an extended basis, and then you’ll make progress over time.

I would recommend saving money on whatever you can, or maybe picking up extra hours at work or doing a side gig for awhile, and prioritize saving up for the herbs you’ll need. You won’t get better over time without the herbs, in my opinion.

I’ve never taken DHEA or pregnenelone, or 5-keto DHT, but there are many, many stories on PH where people have searched for one magic bullet, and it has never worked. They have spent tens of thousands of hours trying different miracle cures, and best case scenario, they find something that helps for a few days and then it stops working. That may have been what you experienced. The CDsnuts protocol seems to result in a gradual upward shift, with peaks and valleys. So I would just stick with the protocol rather than experimenting with other things.

Yeah I noticed big improvements in mood in around two months from the herb rotation. I don't really "feel" the herbs individually but over time they do help. Imo it's best to just "set it and forget it" like CD says. Over time you'll notice your life get easier and easier. This has been my experience pretty much.

And yeah I use CD's affiliate links too. I think he deserves it for all the information he's given out for free. Imagine if he never told us how he recovered? We'd all be fucked

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LetsGo

Personally, I have felt the most noticable results from pine pollen tincture, by far. The regular pine pollen also gives me more noticable results than the other herbs. If you have a limited budget, I’d put the pine pollen tincture at the top of the list. Lost Empire also has some one-time discount codes you can find online, for like 20% off, but it’s better to use that for a large order since you can only use it once. And I’d order through CDsnuts’s affiliate link to help him out for everything he does, for free, to help guys in this situation. He could have kept his secret to himself instead of sharing it, and facing backlash from the PH forum. But he didn’t, and so I think it’s fair for him to get a cut of the small amount of money we spend on the herbs.

I consistently had bad reactions to Eluthero - I got extreme insomnia every time I took the recommended two doses. However, I'm extremely sensitive to stimulants. If I have a small coffee at 8 AM, I will be wide awake at 2:30 AM, wondering why I can’t fall asleep. If I have two cups of coffee, I feel a mild euphoric buzz for a few hours afterwards - yes, I literally get high on coffee. If you have normal sensitivity to stimulants like coffee then you should be fine with eluthero, but it’s a good idea to see if any of the herbs cause you problems like that.

The herb rotation, etc, led to noticable gains pretty quickly, and there were times when I felt cured for 3 - 10 days at a time. Other times, like now, are slump times. However, I think there’s an overall upward trend, and if you compare my slumps now to the ones before, there is still upward progress.

Reducing your stress and eating cleanly are necessary, but not sufficient. Same thing with sleep. You won’t get cured if you’re sleeping 4 hours a night, but getting 8 or 9 hours per night also won’t cure you. You have to be doing a whole bunch of things right, on an extended basis, and then you’ll make progress over time.

I would recommend saving money on whatever you can, or maybe picking up extra hours at work or doing a side gig for awhile, and prioritize saving up for the herbs you’ll need. You won’t get better over time without the herbs, in my opinion.

I’ve never taken DHEA or pregnenelone, or 5-keto DHT, but there are many, many stories on PH where people have searched for one magic bullet, and it has never worked. They have spent tens of thousands of hours trying different miracle cures, and best case scenario, they find something that helps for a few days and then it stops working. That may have been what you experienced. The CDsnuts protocol seems to result in a gradual upward shift, with peaks and valleys. So I would just stick with the protocol rather than experimenting with other things.

---

I took a look and can't find the affiliate links anywhere. Are they on CD's profile page?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slader1

I took a look and can't find the affiliate links anywhere. Are they on CD's profile page?

---

Everything you need you can get from my website. That's why I created it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slader1

Wow I'm glad I could help! I know those days seemed impossibly rough.

Niacinamide certainly helps but did not completely cure me. I am now looking to get back to 100% and beyond.

Yes I did take a very little androsterone - probably just 10-20mg. It is hard to say because it was 1mg suspended in dmso, so the potency is unknown. I only used it once in a while, because I didn't see it as a potential cure, and probably only doses it fewer than 10 times total. So, this was nowhere near the 400mg-600mg daily dosage being recommended here. Further, after thinking about it recently, I realized that I had bad reactions to all of the DMSO supplements. They would give me headaches and make my eyes hurt, from progesterone to keto dht etc. I am thinking maybe it wasn't the androsterone after all, and it is definitely worth another try.

Okay I did go through the entire site and it is now much more clear. What did you notice when cycling the herbs? They are fairly expensive and I am going to have to save up a bit more before I can order them.

Also, are you drinking juice/milk during the day or just for carb backloading? I am wondering what a safe amount of carbohydrate/sugar is during the day. I think I feel better after having fruit and juice, and am used to trying to keep my blood sugar stable.

---

I know its tricky sometimes to really feel effects from supplements and make sense out of it with this condition.
But when i started using them they improved sleep, energy, libido, muscle tone...
I drink milk and juice every day but in moderate amount.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Samsemilia

I know its tricky sometimes to really feel effects from supplements and make sense out of it with this condition.
But when i started using them they improved sleep, energy, libido, muscle tone...
I drink milk and juice every day but in moderate amount.

---

When I stopped eating carbs in the morning for a few weeks, I lost about 10 lbs (I could stand to lose about 30), but that stopped once I began eating carbs through the day again. I think I will try to cut out morning carbs again, it seemed to give me a good energy boost but around mid-morning I would feel irritable and tired. I think I just need to learn to give it more time to adjust to, I am very used to stuffing myself with carbs, dairy, and meat. I recently ran across some information about how inflammatory the casien protien in milk can be, and I think it is worth a trial of going dairy free for a time.

Well alright fellas, I finally finished week 4 of my androhard run. I originally had wanted to try and push it for 6 or even 8 weeks, but I think I have to call it here. I have been having a difficulty concentrating (de-realization), dizziness, shortness of breath and an anxiety which I am sick of. I had these problems last time I took androsterone in a small dose (<10mg), so it was expected, considering this was a way bigger dose. I told myself I would push through it to week 4 no matter what.

I did notice many improvements while on it though, most notably in my member. My flaccid size bigger, and my erections were *much* harder and more sensitive. I also felt more energy and "alpha", especially the first couple weeks. I felt more powerful and stronger in the gym. I had fewer racing thoughts, and much more confidence. And of course my muscles became harder.

The first week I took only 200mg, 2nd Week 300 mg, weeks 3 and 4 I did 400mg. The effects diminished over time, but they were still there. The last couple days I began to get dizzy spells and had a lot of difficulty concentrating, so time to end it I think. It's a shame because I saw so much improvement...

I will begin the herb cycling now, and I will report back later this week!

Hey sounds great! These are similar effects from andro other people reported about. Sounds promising.
I wanna start a cycle after my gastritis.

Did you felt pressure/ache on the prostate while taking it? Did your sleep improved?

People here also reported about a positive shift couple a days later after a andro cycle. What herbs you wanna start rotating?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Samsemilia

Hey sounds great! These are similar effects from andro other people reported about. Sounds promising.
I wanna start a cycle after my gastritis.

Did you felt pressure/ache on the prostate while taking it? Did your sleep improved?

People here also reported about a positive shift couple a days later after a andro cycle. What herbs you wanna start rotating?

---

I did not feel pressure/ache on my prostate, and my sleep certainly did not improve. In fact my sleep got worse, for the most part. The first night I could not sleep at all, and towards the end I was waking up at night with a rapid heart beat, severe brain fog and dizziness.

By the end of the cycle I was experiencing severe de-realization, and my head felt very strange.

This is my 6th day off, and I still feel intense de-realization. It's like I can't focus or feel much at all. It's different from the brain fog I had prior to the cycle, I can't describe it.

I want to say it's gotten a bit better each day. I also read that Lion's Mane is a 5ar inhibitor which may have contributed to my strange head symptom. I started taking that a couple weeks ago, around the same time the de-realization got real bad. I was experiencing the head symptoms my first couple of weeks on andro to a lesser extent. I told myself I would push through to 4 weeks no matter what, and I did.

I drank coconut water, and consumed extra bananas and potatoes while on cycle, so I don't think that potassium loss has anything to do with it. I think it's jsut my unique biochemistry that makes me hypersensitive to everything I take. It's why I crashed so severely and have trouble taking anything except vitamins.

Now I am stuck trying to figure out how to get out of this strange headspace, and I don't feel like doing anything. Whereas previously with the brainfog I was able to grit my teeth and get the job done regardless, now I am beginning to feel lost and spaced out to the point of where I just don't want to do anything.

I do have less anxiety than before though. Could I be sufferring from too much GABA?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slader1

I did not feel pressure/ache on my prostate, and my sleep certainly did not improve. In fact my sleep got worse, for the most part. The first night I could not sleep at all, and towards the end I was waking up at night with a rapid heart beat, severe brain fog and dizziness.

By the end of the cycle I was experiencing severe de-realization, and my head felt very strange.

This is my 6th day off, and I still feel intense de-realization. It's like I can't focus or feel much at all. It's different from the brain fog I had prior to the cycle, I can't describe it.

I want to say it's gotten a bit better each day. I also read that Lion's Mane is a 5ar inhibitor which may have contributed to my strange head symptom. I started taking that a couple weeks ago, around the same time the de-realization got real bad. I was experiencing the head symptoms my first couple of weeks on andro to a lesser extent. I told myself I would push through to 4 weeks no matter what, and I did.

I drank coconut water, and consumed extra bananas and potatoes while on cycle, so I don't think that potassium loss has anything to do with it. I think it's jsut my unique biochemistry that makes me hypersensitive to everything I take. It's why I crashed so severely and have trouble taking anything except vitamins.

Now I am stuck trying to figure out how to get out of this strange headspace, and I don't feel like doing anything. Whereas previously with the brainfog I was able to grit my teeth and get the job done regardless, now I am beginning to feel lost and spaced out to the point of where I just don't want to do anything.

I do have less anxiety than before though. Could I be sufferring from too much GABA?

---

Do several Wim Hof sessions. This will clear this head space out and get you motivated.

Well one of the strange things is I don't have much anxiety. Rather, I feel physically pretty solid, other than the intense head pressure/dizziness/brain fog.

I will look into Wim Hof regardless, though.

So it's been two weeks since cessation of the R-andro and sorry to say, I still feel horrible.

This mental state is just horrendous, sorry to say. I have the worst brain fog I have ever experienced, in all my pfs years. I can't think/feel at all, I don't know where I am most of the time, and I have a constant headache that goes from the top of my head down to my nose. I also have weird pressures that push across my head to the right or left. It feels almost as if my brain was split into two parts, and they aren't cooperating with one another. I have no emotions to speak of, other than a slight irritability through the day, and a slight depression at how incredibly difficult my life is.

Needless to say I can no longer get even a weak erection. This is probably because arousal in mostly mental, and I can't think or feel almost anything.

I now feel like I am functioning entirely on instinct, and I lack the capacity for deep or critical thought. I am just barely getting by at my fast food cashier job, and I feel like I am going to have to drop out of school soon.

What is strange is that I do have less anxiety after the R-andro. Which makes me ask... WTF happened? Did my 5-ar crash again? IF that was so then I would have low allopreg (explains the increased brain fog) but I would also have low DHT, and physically I feel actually kind of strong, and I have less anxiety than before! So maybe the andro crashed my estrogen? This still doesn't make much sense to me, because I have never heard anyone complain of low estrogen giving them mental stuff this incredibly awful!

Anyone know whats going on?

I had a shitty time during and after my transdermal andro hard cycle last year.. it only lasted 2 weeks, had to stop prematurely.. I think I just wasn’t ready at the time. It took some months to get back to normal. I’ve done 2 r-andro cycles since which were better. Since r-andro isn’t in stock anymore my next cycle is gonna be andro hard.. gonna probably start with a low dose, maybe it being transdermal increases its ability to increase dht and crash estrogen. I’m stacking it with dermacrine to try to offset sides

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slader1

So it's been two weeks since cessation of the R-andro and sorry to say, I still feel horrible.

This mental state is just horrendous, sorry to say. I have the worst brain fog I have ever experienced, in all my pfs years. I can't think/feel at all, I don't know where I am most of the time, and I have a constant headache that goes from the top of my head down to my nose. I also have weird pressures that push across my head to the right or left. It feels almost as if my brain was split into two parts, and they aren't cooperating with one another. I have no emotions to speak of, other than a slight irritability through the day, and a slight depression at how incredibly difficult my life is.

Needless to say I can no longer get even a weak erection. This is probably because arousal in mostly mental, and I can't think or feel almost anything.

I now feel like I am functioning entirely on instinct, and I lack the capacity for deep or critical thought. I am just barely getting by at my fast food cashier job, and I feel like I am going to have to drop out of school soon.

What is strange is that I do have less anxiety after the R-andro. Which makes me ask... WTF happened? Did my 5-ar crash again? IF that was so then I would have low allopreg (explains the increased brain fog) but I would also have low DHT, and physically I feel actually kind of strong, and I have less anxiety than before! So maybe the andro crashed my estrogen? This still doesn't make much sense to me, because I have never heard anyone complain of low estrogen giving them mental stuff this incredibly awful!

Anyone know whats going on?

---

I've had nothing but horrible experiences with r andro as well. When I use it I feel less anxiety for like a week, and then mental symptoms get much worse. It crippled me mentally a year ago. Like an idiot I tried it again recently, at just 100mg and I've been physically and mentally crippled for two months now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markuss

I had a shitty time during and after my transdermal andro hard cycle last year.. it only lasted 2 weeks, had to stop prematurely.. I think I just wasn’t ready at the time. It took some months to get back to normal. I’ve done 2 r-andro cycles since which were better. Since r-andro isn’t in stock anymore my next cycle is gonna be andro hard.. gonna probably start with a low dose, maybe it being transdermal increases its ability to increase dht and crash estrogen. I’m stacking it with dermacrine to try to offset sides

---

What kind of sides did you experience? I have like the worst neurological sides ever. I can barely use my brain at all now, and am struggling to do basic tasks.

What is dermacrine? It's difficult for me to believe that low estrogen is behind this. I think it may have crashed me again, but this time worse.

Can you describe your mental symptoms worsening? Mine are very strange and I am beginning to worry the severity is unique to myself. I can't focus at all, feel off balance, huge brain fog, constant headache.

What is weird is that my anxiety is better now. My anxiety was worse on androhard, and my brain felt like it was going insane. I stuck with it for 4 weeks anyways. Now I am regretting that, because at least before androhard I had brainfog but I could at least get an erection.

Bro i never did a cycle of randro but i can tell you i had a gastritis for 2 months and its almost totaly gone now but during that time i thought i was on a cycle of a dht prohormone.

Histamine is very high during gastritis thats why people take anti histamines like famotidine to cure it, histamine increases dht very significantly. (you can find it on pubmed)

I am not joking during this 2 months lasting gastritis i thought it would set me back months and months. Because i felt so bad, mentally especially; couldnt focus, bad memory, anxiety increased noticabel,muscle twitches came back which i didnt had for over a year, lethargy sometimes off the charts, body balance problems like waves inside myself, harder erections tho, felt less emotions, feeling of being not inside my body/brain.

Now that its clearing all the symptoms that came back are now noticabel better than before the gastritis and i made solid improvements overall.
I think you will be better soon and notice the improvements you made.

Your case is one of the tougher ones because you took it at 18 yo and you have pfs many years now, something as strong as randro can really shook your system and move your body in a direction that will lead eventually to recovery.
The betterd anxiety is the same for me i can feel it very clear.

I don't understand why having higher DHT would make you feel worse? The primary thing we are trying to do is raise our 5ar, so we can get our DHT back, no?

I hope to god you are right, that this was a shock to the system as is only temporary. I am getting sick to death of this crazy feeling of not being inside myself, of being completely unable to focus my vision or thoughts, of having numbness all over my face, of being physically weak, zero emotions, irritable, brain dead, etc. If this is what it takes to get things started in the right direction then holy sh*t.

What did you mean by that last part- "betterd anxiety is the same for me..."
You mean you have less anxiety now too? This doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. How can one single symptom improve but all of the other ones get worse? I am starting to feel very lost in this, maybe I was too young when I crashed and I'll never make it out =(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slader1

I don't understand why having higher DHT would make you feel worse? The primary thing we are trying to do is raise our 5ar, so we can get our DHT back, no?

I hope to god you are right, that this was a shock to the system as is only temporary. I am getting sick to death of this crazy feeling of not being inside myself, of being completely unable to focus my vision or thoughts, of having numbness all over my face, of being physically weak, zero emotions, irritable, brain dead, etc. If this is what it takes to get things started in the right direction then holy sh*t.

What did you mean by that last part- "betterd anxiety is the same for me..."
You mean you have less anxiety now too? This doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. How can one single symptom improve but all of the other ones get worse? I am starting to feel very lost in this, maybe I was too young when I crashed and I'll never make it out =(

---

Dont lose hope keep your head up especially during the worst days, when you push through it eventually you will be even more proud of yourself.

I dont know why higher Dht makes me feel worse but all i know is that when i did things that increased estrogen it made me feel better.
Yes my anxiety is better, im more calmer now.

Hey bro. You seem to be in a tough spot so I thought I would show some support. I'm by no means a veteran here, but I'm seeing results on the protocol so I thought I would weigh in. My worst symptom was derealization, still is sometimes but not very often. My brain fog was so brutal that it was like a psychosis split from reality and my vision was fucked. You can see details and all that on my introduction thread or my real thread. A few months ago I was in a horrible horrible spot. I started from the very ground up on the protocol, even though I've lifted weights for over a decade I stopped training and then did the water fast, implemented paleo, then implemented calisthenics then 3 weeks later light weight lifting, on and on. It was a slow process but I'm in a much better place then I was, and I haven't even began the herb rotation yet. It's also very intricate, if I cheat on my paleo diet, I get worse. If i masterbate, I get worse. I wouldn't dream on jumping on pro-hormones yet, especially in the state I was in months ago. That won't happen for me until at least May, and that's if I even decide I need them. I say all this because I noticed you didn't really follow the protocol as it was laid out on TMO, and I think that's required to recover honestly. I think you'll be fine but I would highly recommend starting from the ground up and taking your time with it. At first I just wanted to jump on the herbs and androhard and all that cuz I didn't want to suffer any longer but now Im happy I did.t Things can and will improve for you bro! Just follow the protocol as its laid out and you'll be good. Once again, I'm pretty new here and my opinion doesn't mean much but thats my two cents! Stay strong man!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turnover25

Hey bro. You seem to be in a tough spot so I thought I would show some support. I'm by no means a veteran here, but I'm seeing results on the protocol so I thought I would weigh in. My worst symptom was derealization, still is sometimes but not very often. My brain fog was so brutal that it was like a psychosis split from reality and my vision was fucked. You can see details and all that on my introduction thread or my real thread. A few months ago I was in a horrible horrible spot. I started from the very ground up on the protocol, even though I've lifted weights for over a decade I stopped training and then did the water fast, implemented paleo, then implemented calisthenics then 3 weeks later light weight lifting, on and on. It was a slow process but I'm in a much better place then I was, and I haven't even began the herb rotation yet. It's also very intricate, if I cheat on my paleo diet, I get worse. If i masterbate, I get worse. I wouldn't dream on jumping on pro-hormones yet, especially in the state I was in months ago. That won't happen for me until at least May, and that's if I even decide I need them. I say all this because I noticed you didn't really follow the protocol as it was laid out on TMO, and I think that's required to recover honestly. I think you'll be fine but I would highly recommend starting from the ground up and taking your time with it. At first I just wanted to jump on the herbs and androhard and all that cuz I didn't want to suffer any longer but now Im happy I did.t Things can and will improve for you bro! Just follow the protocol as its laid out and you'll be good. Once again, I'm pretty new here and my opinion doesn't mean much but thats my two cents! Stay strong man!

---

THIS^^^^^^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turnover25

Hey bro. You seem to be in a tough spot so I thought I would show some support. I'm by no means a veteran here, but I'm seeing results on the protocol so I thought I would weigh in. My worst symptom was derealization, still is sometimes but not very often. My brain fog was so brutal that it was like a psychosis split from reality and my vision was fucked. You can see details and all that on my introduction thread or my real thread. A few months ago I was in a horrible horrible spot. I started from the very ground up on the protocol, even though I've lifted weights for over a decade I stopped training and then did the water fast, implemented paleo, then implemented calisthenics then 3 weeks later light weight lifting, on and on. It was a slow process but I'm in a much better place then I was, and I haven't even began the herb rotation yet. It's also very intricate, if I cheat on my paleo diet, I get worse. If i masterbate, I get worse. I wouldn't dream on jumping on pro-hormones yet, especially in the state I was in months ago. That won't happen for me until at least May, and that's if I even decide I need them. I say all this because I noticed you didn't really follow the protocol as it was laid out on TMO, and I think that's required to recover honestly. I think you'll be fine but I would highly recommend starting from the ground up and taking your time with it. At first I just wanted to jump on the herbs and androhard and all that cuz I didn't want to suffer any longer but now Im happy I did.t Things can and will improve for you bro! Just follow the protocol as its laid out and you'll be good. Once again, I'm pretty new here and my opinion doesn't mean much but thats my two cents! Stay strong man!

---

Thanks for the inspiring words, I could really use them at a time like this. I am in a ridiculously bad spot mentally, I could never imagine brain fog being this awful. Every day is a total struggle, and I am trying to stay strong and pull through it. Though after years of struggling (to varying degrees), it's getting hard to stay strong, especially when it feels like my brain isnt there.

I also have bad headaches that come and go all over my head now. I get numbness across my nose, forehead and face. Constant dizziness/ unable to concentrate/ feeling lost. And my vision is definitely worse, I also get bad pressure inside my eyes. Anyone else get this?

It's been 3 weeks since I finished that androhard cycle, and I still feel very strange (and bad). My gf gave me hj last night, and my d*ck was shockingly sensitive. In fact it was too sensitive, and I burst a load in what seemed like seconds. It was physically more pleasurable than anytime I remember since getting pfs. Mentally, it was very bad, as I couldn't visualize or think happy thoughts. It's like I'm totally lacking a brain and all emotions, and its making everything I do uncomfortable, and ruining every experience.

Does anyone have any clue how I could have improved physically but worsened mentally on this stuff? It just makes zero sense. In the three weeks since the cycle my mental effects have only gotten maybe a little bit better, too.

I want to begin starting the protocol from the ground up, but I am finding it very difficult to even carry out basic tasks because of this severe mental discomfort. I tried cold showers, which gave my body energy but didnt help the braindead feeling/headaches. Ive tried meditation but it is impossible. I need something that will help pull me out of this right away, I'm thinking about trying 5a-dhp but worried that it might worsen me for some unknown, ridiculous reason...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slader1

Thanks for the inspiring words, I could really use them at a time like this. I am in a ridiculously bad spot mentally, I could never imagine brain fog being this awful. Every day is a total struggle, and I am trying to stay strong and pull through it. Though after years of struggling (to varying degrees), it's getting hard to stay strong, especially when it feels like my brain isnt there.

I also have bad headaches that come and go all over my head now. I get numbness across my nose, forehead and face. Constant dizziness/ unable to concentrate/ feeling lost. And my vision is definitely worse, I also get bad pressure inside my eyes. Anyone else get this?

It's been 3 weeks since I finished that androhard cycle, and I still feel very strange (and bad). My gf gave me hj last night, and my d*ck was shockingly sensitive. In fact it was too sensitive, and I burst a load in what seemed like seconds. It was physically more pleasurable than anytime I remember since getting pfs. Mentally, it was very bad, as I couldn't visualize or think happy thoughts. It's like I'm totally lacking a brain and all emotions, and its making everything I do uncomfortable, and ruining every experience.

Does anyone have any clue how I could have improved physically but worsened mentally on this stuff? It just makes zero sense. In the three weeks since the cycle my mental effects have only gotten maybe a little bit better, too.

I want to begin starting the protocol from the ground up, but I am finding it very difficult to even carry out basic tasks because of this severe mental discomfort. I tried cold showers, which gave my body energy but didnt help the braindead feeling/headaches. Ive tried meditation but it is impossible. I need something that will help pull me out of this right away, I'm thinking about trying 5a-dhp but worried that it might worsen me for some unknown, ridiculous reason...

---

Everything you just described is nearly my exact same experience with PFS. Jump on the protocol and give it time, I’m not doing amazing but I’m out of the hell you described now. Give it a few months time and some discipline and I promise you’ll be in a better place.

I also orderred 7 herbs form the list. I want to begin with a water fast for a couple of weeks, but I am afraid it might impact me mentally. I am going to wait a couple more weeks before fasting and for now I'll stick with paleo and taking a few brain supps like glycine/theanine and lion's mane in the mean time, while doing moderate intensity weight training 3x week.