Bioidentical Testosterone + TMO Protocol

I’m genuinely curious to hear from some of the vets as to why bioidentical testosterone should not be used. Since it’s 100% the same molecule as naturally produced testosterone, why couldn’t TRT be used in conjunction with a strict TMO protocol regimen?

Please don’t misunderstand me! I’m definitely not saying TRT is the cure or quick fix for PFS. But how can having optimized testosterone levels along with working the hell out of the protocol not be a good route? (We know the protocol is doing a lot more than just raising andorgen levels) I’m not looking for the cons of TRT like life long commitment, cost etc. I’m trying to understand on a mechanism level as to why using bioidentical T along with consistent execution of TMO would hinder recovery?

I considered this too with hcg

Taking exogenous testosterone, even if it is bioidentical (the exact same molecule your body makes) will cause other effects. It’s not just “boom, I take this gel or injection and now my low testosterone is normal testosterone,” like a diabetic person taking insulin for their blood sugar. The body’s sex hormones are more complicated than that.

When you take exogenous test, your body will now have more testosterone than its biofeedback loops think it should, so it will throttle back on lutenizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone (which tell the body to make more test, as well as sperm.) Your balls aren’t needed for test anymore, so they will shrink. However, your balls ARE needed for recovering from PFS, so this is going to mess you up badly.

The balls do more than make testosterone and by flooding yourself with exogenous test, you are interrupting other processes that they need to do. Some of this bioidentical test will also aromatize into estrogen as well, and also you would have to up the dose of exogenous test as your balls continued to shrink and produce less test of their own.

The CD method is about doing things to nudge the body back into proper homeostasis - taking exogenous bioidentical test is going to throw a wrench in your body’s natural feedback loops and mess up your recovery.

Appreciate the response, but some of your info is inaccurate. You’re correct in that T will lower LH, FSH and result in smaller testicles. I wouldn’t understand why those results would have a negative impact on recovery as long as you were keeping your hormones optimized and sticking to a strict healthy lifestyle. (Sometimes) those on TRT see a dip in DHEA and Pregnenlone due to less testicular function. If labs show that, that can be simply remedied with supplementation. Even non-TRT folks can show low Preg and DHEA.

One of the biggest benefits of TRT is the increase in estradiol. There’s nothing wrong with aromatizing. Estradiol has a horrible and misunderstood reputation but it’s a critical hormone for libido and overall well-being.

Like mentioned above, I would love to hear from CD and some of the vets. Don’t know how to @mention on this damn thing haha

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Originally Posted by Brooks

Appreciate the response, but some of your info is inaccurate. You’re correct in that T will lower LH, FSH and result in smaller testicles. I wouldn’t understand why those results would have a negative impact on recovery as long as you were keeping your hormones optimized and sticking to a strict healthy lifestyle. (Sometimes) those on TRT see a dip in DHEA and Pregnenlone due to less testicular function. If labs show that, that can be simply remedied with supplementation. Even non-TRT folks can show low Preg and DHEA.

One of the biggest benefits of TRT is the increase in estradiol. There’s nothing wrong with aromatizing. Estradiol has a horrible and misunderstood reputation but it’s a critical hormone for libido and overall well-being.

Like mentioned above, I would love to hear from CD and some of the vets. Don’t know how to @mention on this damn thing haha

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No worries, I am definitely not hurt by disagreements about whether info is correct or things like that.

I have read CD mention that the TRT route is not the path to go down, and he even mentioned that to me when I posted about getting bloodwork done. But he might read this thread and if he does, I think he will tell you not to go on TRT. I remember him telling guys who were already on TRT to come off of it, do the water fast, and everything else.

If you really want to be on TRT, I’d complete the program, wait until you’re fully recovered for 6+ months and then go see doctors for it.

Yeah, I’ve also read that CD is not a fan so I understand where you’re coming from. I believe a primary reason he steers folks away from it is because a lot of guys come to him thinking TRT will be their silver bullet. I can see guys taking their foot off the TMO peddle once adding bioidentical T which would defeat the whole purpose.

I’d love CD’s latest thoughts as to why he would be against it if someone’s been strict on the protocol for months, stabilized their system a bit and plans to use it in conjunction with strict protocol adherence. I’m just struggling to understand how optimizing our hormone levels wouldn’t put our systems in that much better of an environment to heal while continuing TMO.

Me personally, I want to progress and stabilize my recovery more before considering it so that’s why I want to do my homework now 👍🏼

I would @mention some experts in here if I new how haha

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Originally Posted by Brooks

Yeah, I’ve also read that CD is not a fan so I understand where you’re coming from. I believe a primary reason he steers folks away from it is because a lot of guys come to him thinking TRT will be their silver bullet. I can see guys taking their foot off the TMO peddle once adding bioidentical T which would defeat the whole purpose.

I’d love CD’s latest thoughts as to why he would be against it if someone’s been strict on the protocol for months, stabilized their system a bit and plans to use it in conjunction with strict protocol adherence. I’m just struggling to understand how optimizing our hormone levels wouldn’t put our systems in that much better of an environment to heal while continuing TMO.

Me personally, I want to progress and stabilize my recovery more before considering it so that’s why I want to do my homework now ����

I would @mention some experts in here if I new how haha

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Optimizing our hormone levels is exactly what TMO does, among many, many other things. It does this naturally, and gently over time. By adding in exogenous Test, your body won't be able to do this on it's own seeing as once outside hormones are supplied, the body stops making it's own due to feedback mechanisms. Essentially there is no point in rotating herbs to boost your body's test if your putting outside test into it. It stops the whole thing from working the way it's supposed to. Every single facet of this program is built to aid your body in making IT'S OWN testosterone, naturally. Unless you plan on staying on TRT forever, you're still going to have to come off and still going to have to jump start your body into making it's own hormones. It makes absolutely no sense in doing TMO while running test.

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Originally Posted by Brooks

I’m genuinely curious to hear from some of the vets as to why bioidentical testosterone should not be used. Since it’s 100% the same molecule as naturally produced testosterone, why couldn’t TRT be used in conjunction with a strict TMO protocol regimen?

Please don’t misunderstand me! I’m definitely not saying TRT is the cure or quick fix for PFS. But how can having optimized testosterone levels along with working the hell out of the protocol not be a good route? (We know the protocol is doing a lot more than just raising andorgen levels) I’m not looking for the cons of TRT like life long commitment, cost etc. I’m trying to understand on a mechanism level as to why using bioidentical T along with consistent execution of TMO would hinder recovery?

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That's what I did on this last cycle. I stacked bioidentical T with the last bottle of Andro Hard I had collecting dust. My T was at 1095ng/dL and DHT was at 127ng/dL. Reason why they don't want you to is because herbs can't act as effective enough PCT when you suppress your T hard like that during TRT cycles. There's a reason why gym bros who hit the juice don't use tribulus and pine pollen afterwards. Studies show minimal effects on T from herbs. My T tanked down to 358ng/dL last week after the cycle ended, which is no biggie because I anticipated that. I just have to use Clomid for a few weeks and it comes right back up no problem. Additionally, using TRT will slow down progesterone production because the testes produce more than just testosterone. And progesterone makes Allopregnanolone downstream, which a lot of us are deficient in. This is why some feel worse on TRT. Further loss in Allopregnanolone while on cycle. It's a trade off.

Most likely you won’t get an answer to your question on this thread because no one is willing to answer this directly (as far as i know or aware of) or even know the scientific real answer, I’m on TRT ever since before Fin and I tried looking for a clear direct answer to why it’s claimed useless in pfs case on this site or even others but to no result

However there seems to be an unknown reason or might i say a “barrier” causing TRT to fail and no one can point the reason why so for now the best bet is to go for the more consistent path which is the protocol.

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Originally Posted by Marduk

Most likely you won’t get an answer to your question on this thread because no one is willing to answer this directly (as far as i know or aware of) or even know the scientific real answer, I’m on TRT ever since before Fin and I tried looking for a clear direct answer to why it’s claimed useless in pfs case on this site or even others but to no result

However there seems to be an unknown reason or might i say a “barrier” causing TRT to fail and no one can point the reason why so for now the best bet is to go for the more consistent path which is the protocol.

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Honestly, there could be a variety of reasons why TRT isn't going to cure you. Without going into too much about it, the bottom line is just that fact. TRT is NOT going to fix your pfs. That's really all you need to know. Why worry about why it doesn't work when you could be focusing on what does.

A short answer is, TRT isn't going to fix the neuro damage that was caused by inhibiting 5ar. Too many downstream problems arise from 5ar inhibition to be fixed by simply adding in exogenous Test.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

A short answer is, TRT isn't going to fix the neuro damage that was caused by inhibiting 5ar. Too many downstream problems arise from 5ar inhibition to be fixed by simply adding in exogenous Test.

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Thank you so much @Cdsnuts Kenobi.

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Originally Posted by Mineiro-up

Thank you so much @Cdsnuts Kenobi.

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Lol....you're welcome. May the force be with all of you.