Ultra hard/Pumping

Hi been a pfs sufferer for 8 years. Was a lurker on the pfs forum and now have been lurking on this site since late November. I’ve tried many things such as Clomid, 14 day water fast, herb cycling, ihatepropecia protocol, pelvic floor therapy, and Hcg. Would always have a slight improvement then a drop. The only improvement that I have had stick is my hormone levels. When I first got pfs my t levels were a measly 350. Now I’m around 750. My dht was actually above the scale at 64. My levels have gone pretty much gotten to a good spot, but I still have sexual sides all the same. Erectile dysfunction, libido, atrophied testicles and penis. Anyways I started the protocol in the beginning of December. I was coming off a 3 months of hcg which didn’t do anything. Started with a 7 day juice fast and have been cycling 7 herbs, taking pine pollen everyday, spiriluna/chlorella daily, digestive enzymes, pregnelone, probiotics daily, paleo diet(are potatoes ok?), cold showers, change of soaps etc. I had some improvement getting morning wood daily and more response when I think of sex. Lately it seems to have dropped though the past few weeks. So I got my first bottle of ultra hard and I’m not sure where to apply it. It’s shows on the bottle the stomach area/chest, but I thought we had to put it on our scrotum. Also I know on the website it’s says pumping is safe with the bath mate, but I’m afraid to damage myself and make things worse. Any tips/reassurance and noted benefits would be great as I would like to of course add that since it’s part of the protocol. Thanks, sorry for the long post.

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Originally Posted by Revy

Hi been a pfs sufferer for 8 years. Was a lurker on the pfs forum and now have been lurking on this site since late November. I’ve tried many things such as Clomid, 14 day water fast, herb cycling, ihatepropecia protocol, pelvic floor therapy, and Hcg. Would always have a slight improvement then a drop. The only improvement that I have had stick is my hormone levels. When I first got pfs my t levels were a measly 350. Now I’m around 750. My dht was actually above the scale at 64. My levels have gone pretty much gotten to a good spot, but I still have sexual sides all the same. Erectile dysfunction, libido, atrophied testicles and penis. Anyways I started the protocol in the beginning of December. I was coming off a 3 months of hcg which didn’t do anything. Started with a 7 day juice fast and have been cycling 7 herbs, taking pine pollen everyday, spiriluna/chlorella daily, digestive enzymes, pregnelone, probiotics daily, paleo diet(are potatoes ok?), cold showers, change of soaps etc. I had some improvement getting morning wood daily and more response when I think of sex. Lately it seems to have dropped though the past few weeks. So I got my first bottle of ultra hard and I’m not sure where to apply it. It’s shows on the bottle the stomach area/chest, but I thought we had to put it on our scrotum. Also I know on the website it’s says pumping is safe with the bath mate, but I’m afraid to damage myself and make things worse. Any tips/reassurance and noted benefits would be great as I would like to of course add that since it’s part of the protocol. Thanks, sorry for the long post.

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Paragraphs my man, please.

You get out of this 100% of what you put in. Pumping can be dangerous, yes, but that's why we follow specific instructions.

Put the ultra hard on the upper chest, shoulders, arms stomach,etc. You can put a pump on the scrotum, but that's not really necessary. Simply follow the instructions on the bottle.

Ok, thanks cd. Ima start the ultra hard tonight and buy a bath mate.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Paragraphs my man, please.

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xD

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Originally Posted by tallstraw

xD

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Where the hell you been?!

What's good brother? How you been?

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Where the hell you been?!

What's good brother? How you been?

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I f-off for a while. Then it comes time to go back out on a deployment and I get hardcore back into lifting since theres f-all do out here. I always think of this when I think of lifting, since PP is when I got into this whole game. So this is THE original forum for me since it migrated after "The Fall" lol. Even if it has changed into more of a PFS place. I can still entertain myself amongst people.

Spent 3/4 of last year having a holiday in new Zealand waiting to get back to work. Luckily they started back up again to some degree and I was able to grab a seat back out to Afghanistan. It's been months in the making :mad:

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Originally Posted by tallstraw

I f-off for a while. Then it comes time to go back out on a deployment and I get hardcore back into lifting since theres f-all do out here. I always think of this when I think of lifting, since PP is when I got into this whole game. So this is THE original forum for me since it migrated after "The Fall" lol. Even if it has changed into more of a PFS place. I can still entertain myself amongst people.

Spent 3/4 of last year having a holiday in new Zealand waiting to get back to work. Luckily they started back up again to some degree and I was able to grab a seat back out to Afghanistan. It's been months in the making :mad:

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Always wanted to go to New Zealand. How is it? And back to Afghanistan, huh? I thought we were pulling out of there?

And yeah, the place has changed a lot.....go easy on these guys...lol....the board is now full of sick people working on getting better. Sense of humor comes around only so often....understandably so.

I do miss the old PP AND the old Swole Source....place was the best forum around, imo.

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Originally Posted by Revy

Hi been a pfs sufferer for 8 years. Was a lurker on the pfs forum and now have been lurking on this site since late November. I’ve tried many things such as Clomid, 14 day water fast, herb cycling, ihatepropecia protocol, pelvic floor therapy, and Hcg. Would always have a slight improvement then a drop. The only improvement that I have had stick is my hormone levels. When I first got pfs my t levels were a measly 350. Now I’m around 750. My dht was actually above the scale at 64. My levels have gone pretty much gotten to a good spot, but I still have sexual sides all the same. Erectile dysfunction, libido, atrophied testicles and penis. Anyways I started the protocol in the beginning of December. I was coming off a 3 months of hcg which didn’t do anything. Started with a 7 day juice fast and have been cycling 7 herbs, taking pine pollen everyday, spiriluna/chlorella daily, digestive enzymes, pregnelone, probiotics daily, paleo diet(are potatoes ok?), cold showers, change of soaps etc. I had some improvement getting morning wood daily and more response when I think of sex. Lately it seems to have dropped though the past few weeks. So I got my first bottle of ultra hard and I’m not sure where to apply it. It’s shows on the bottle the stomach area/chest, but I thought we had to put it on our scrotum. Also I know on the website it’s says pumping is safe with the bath mate, but I’m afraid to damage myself and make things worse. Any tips/reassurance and noted benefits would be great as I would like to of course add that since it’s part of the protocol. Thanks, sorry for the long post.

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Welcome to the forum!

Make sure that you’re following the exercising instructions as well. You didn’t mention whether you were doing that, but it’s very important to all of this.

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Originally Posted by LetsGo

Welcome to the forum!

Make sure that you’re following the exercising instructions as well. You didn’t mention whether you were doing that, but it’s very important to all of this.

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Thank you for the support! This forum has a bit more of a positive vibe than propecia help. On there it just seems like we are doomed no matter what we do.

Oh yeah I work out on a regular basis. I think that has played a part in how my hormone levels are at good levels. Since I been on the protocol I’ve been able to build muscle easier too. Kind of curious of seeing some gains while on the pro hormones.

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Originally Posted by Revy

Thank you for the support! This forum has a bit more of a positive vibe than propecia help. On there it just seems like we are doomed no matter what we do.

Oh yeah I work out on a regular basis. I think that has played a part in how my hormone levels are at good levels. Since I been on the protocol I’ve been able to build muscle easier too. Kind of curious of seeing some gains while on the pro hormones.

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A "bit" more positive......lol. If you ask me it's a night and day difference. Do yourself a favor and stay away from PH. That place will do nothing but fill your head with negative thoughts that are counter productive to what you are trying to achieve. They still don't get it over there. They STILL think it's never going to get better. They couldn't be more wrong and the damage they do to people who first show up there is horrible. It would do guys much better if they ended up here first, but that's not usually the case.

Leave that place behind. There is nothing for you there but sad, negative depressive thoughts and depressing guys to go along with it. Stick around here, follow the instructions and you will be making a recovery post before you know it.

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Originally Posted by LetsGo

Welcome to the forum!

Make sure that you’re following the exercising instructions as well. You didn’t mention whether you were doing that, but it’s very important to all of this.

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Tall straw is an old head on this forum. He's been around since the beginning when this forum was strictly a bodybuilding forum, which is what most of the older members were here for, myself included. Things have change drastically here seeing as now, it's just the propecia section keeping this place alive.

He's not here for the protocol...just an old member checking in, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Always wanted to go to New Zealand. How is it? And back to Afghanistan, huh? I thought we were pulling out of there?

And yeah, the place has changed a lot.....go easy on these guys...lol....the board is now full of sick people working on getting better. Sense of humor comes around only so often....understandably so.

I do miss the old PP AND the old Swole Source....place was the best forum around, imo.

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We are definitely downsizing and concentrating the various forces. Military is slowly lessening its numbers. Contractor however are like the last to leave. Especially ones like me, since they'd have to send way more green suitors out to do the same job.
It will eventually become quite a small footprint, but I see us here for the long haul for geopolitical reasons with China and Russia.

It really was the best forum. It's crazy that I was saying shit 10 years ago to dudes I was "acquiring" for. Then when I stopped and they were forced to do all their own research and all. Years later when we catch up and chat, theyre like all the shit you said back then was right. It was all the discussions wed have on here since we had such high quality members.

Ill keep my smartass to the minimum I can.. but it's like asking a bird not to fly.. im a peacock, you gotta let me fly.

NZ was the shit btw. Freakin gorgeous. Vibe is really great. I stayed down in Queenstown the whole time though having fun. So, I cant speak to experience everywhere. I only saw Dunedin, Hawks bay, and Queenstown. But id recommend it in a heartbeat. Thinking of going to school out there when I finish up this gig and hit the net worth I want, IF my ticket to Europe with this chick doesn't work out. My long term goal being Finland... but NZ aint bad lol

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

A "bit" more positive......lol. If you ask me it's a night and day difference. Do yourself a favor and stay away from PH. That place will do nothing but fill your head with negative thoughts that are counter productive to what you are trying to achieve. They still don't get it over there. They STILL think it's never going to get better. They couldn't be more wrong and the damage they do to people who first show up there is horrible. It would do guys much better if they ended up here first, but that's not usually the case.

Leave that place behind. There is nothing for you there but sad, negative depressive thoughts and depressing guys to go along with it. Stick around here, follow the instructions and you will be making a recovery post before you know it.

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Thank you CD, I’ll follow the protocol so I can finally be done with this mess. Since I’m doing my first pro hormones cycle I’ll use this thread as a tracker/progress, or if I have any questions. Thank you guys for the support!

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Originally Posted by Revy

Thank you CD, I’ll follow the protocol so I can finally be done with this mess. Since I’m doing my first pro hormones cycle I’ll use this thread as a tracker/progress, or if I have any questions. Thank you guys for the support!

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Please do.

Just wanted to give a minor update. 2 weeks into the cycle and I think it’s going pretty well. My private area looks a lot more healthier. It’s not so shriveled all the time. My scrotum and penis is hanging low and my balls are feeling more firm and little bigger too. Sometimes I feel a pain in my testicles, but I’m thinking that’s a good thing since there is activity going on down there. Sometimes libido is up as well, but still have trouble getting a really good erection.

I do continue to take supplements like Chlorella/spirunela, creating, zma and valerian root for sleep. Can I take vitamin D and pregnelone while on ultra hard? Not taking any herbs of course as stated by the protocol. Also have the hydromax bath mate coming in, so hopefully that will get me in a better state sexually as well.

That’s good that you’re doing better.

For me, I’m 6 days into my UltraHard cycle and doing much worse. Day 1 was nice, but the past 3 days have been a major downturn.

I could definitely use some encouragement, like if someone felt worse on UltraHard but felt AMAZING after getting off of it, or if they magically started to feel normal again.

Like right now I barely even know if what I’m writing makes sense because I’m so brainfogged.

But going to bump it up to 4 pumps (from 3) on Thursday, which will be 1 week, and the Thursday after that to 5 pumps... unless that’s not manageable. Still doing everything else in the protocol, though I don’t respond as much to breathing or cold showers anymore, which just 7 days ago made me feel amazing, or at least refreshed.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

That’s good that you’re doing better.

For me, I’m 6 days into my UltraHard cycle and doing much worse. Day 1 was nice, but the past 3 days have been a major downturn.

I could definitely use some encouragement, like if someone felt worse on UltraHard but felt AMAZING after getting off of it, or if they magically started to feel normal again.

Like right now I barely even know if what I’m writing makes sense because I’m so brainfogged.

But going to bump it up to 4 pumps (from 3) on Thursday, which will be 1 week, and the Thursday after that to 5 pumps... unless that’s not manageable. Still doing everything else in the protocol, though I don’t respond as much to breathing or cold showers anymore, which just 7 days ago made me feel amazing, or at least refreshed.

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Go read my second prohormones thread for when I did UltraHard. The first few days/week was miserable. After the shitty beginning it became amazing. In my experience, at least.

Make sure you’re getting your carbs, sugar and potassium. It’s going to deplete your glycogen (sugar) and potassium levels rapidly, drink coconut water and try to eat some kind of sugary gluten free dessert, like cookies or some shit and see how that makes you feel. Helped me tremendously.

Should I eat carbs even when it’s not nighttime? I can’t eat for about 10 hours of the day because it’s crap school lunch wrapped in plastic and doesn’t fit my diet. Most times I only eat 2 meals and a backload. Maybe I ought to start packing school lunch.

And thanks for the motivation. I’m sure once I’m out of this downturn I’ll forget all of it.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

Should I eat carbs even when it’s not nighttime? I can’t eat for about 10 hours of the day because it’s crap school lunch wrapped in plastic and doesn’t fit my diet. Most times I only eat 2 meals and a backload. Maybe I ought to start packing school lunch.

And thanks for the motivation. I’m sure once I’m out of this downturn I’ll forget all of it.

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Yeah most of us smash carbs all day throughout cycle. I certainly do. Are you in high school?

Yes, I'm about to leave highschool in 2 months thankfully. Can't wait for uni.

And thanks for giving me the go on smashing carbs... Time to smash some granola.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

Yes, I'm about to leave highschool in 2 months thankfully. Can't wait for uni.

And thanks for giving me the go on smashing carbs... Time to smash some granola.

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Where you headed to?

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Originally Posted by Revy

Just wanted to give a minor update. 2 weeks into the cycle and I think it’s going pretty well. My private area looks a lot more healthier. It’s not so shriveled all the time. My scrotum and penis is hanging low and my balls are feeling more firm and little bigger too. Sometimes I feel a pain in my testicles, but I’m thinking that’s a good thing since there is activity going on down there. Sometimes libido is up as well, but still have trouble getting a really good erection.

I do continue to take supplements like Chlorella/spirunela, creating, zma and valerian root for sleep. Can I take vitamin D and pregnelone while on ultra hard? Not taking any herbs of course as stated by the protocol. Also have the hydromax bath mate coming in, so hopefully that will get me in a better state sexually as well.

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Avoid the pregnelone. It's not in the protocol.

Vit. D you can take year round.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

That’s good that you’re doing better.

For me, I’m 6 days into my UltraHard cycle and doing much worse. Day 1 was nice, but the past 3 days have been a major downturn.

I could definitely use some encouragement, like if someone felt worse on UltraHard but felt AMAZING after getting off of it, or if they magically started to feel normal again.

Like right now I barely even know if what I’m writing makes sense because I’m so brainfogged.

But going to bump it up to 4 pumps (from 3) on Thursday, which will be 1 week, and the Thursday after that to 5 pumps... unless that’s not manageable. Still doing everything else in the protocol, though I don’t respond as much to breathing or cold showers anymore, which just 7 days ago made me feel amazing, or at least refreshed.

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What do you mean you "don't respond?" That's physiologically impossible.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

Should I eat carbs even when it’s not nighttime? I can’t eat for about 10 hours of the day because it’s crap school lunch wrapped in plastic and doesn’t fit my diet. Most times I only eat 2 meals and a backload. Maybe I ought to start packing school lunch.

And thanks for the motivation. I’m sure once I’m out of this downturn I’ll forget all of it.

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When you're on cycle, SMASH those carbs......it ALL goes right to the muscles.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

Yes, I'm about to leave highschool in 2 months thankfully. Can't wait for uni.

And thanks for giving me the go on smashing carbs... Time to smash some granola.

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You can eat them all day on cycle but still.....when backloading time comes around, THAT is when the magic happens......

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

What do you mean you "don't respond?" That's physiologically impossible.

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When you're on cycle, SMASH those carbs......it ALL goes right to the muscles.

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You can eat them all day on cycle but still.....when backloading time comes around, THAT is when the magic happens......

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I don't respond AS MUCH to the breathing exercises. It's probably just because of the downturn in general, but I also haven't been eating much carbs either so maybe that's the problem. I'm only 6 days on cycle, I'll give it more time and go for the full 28 days.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

I don't respond AS MUCH to the breathing exercises. It's probably just because of the downturn in general, but I also haven't been eating much carbs either so maybe that's the problem. I'm only 6 days on cycle, I'll give it more time and go for the full 28 days.

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That's going to have no effect on the breathing exercises or cold showers......none

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Avoid the pregnelone. It's not in the protocol.

Vit. D you can take year round.

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Oh ok, will remove the pregnelone. So just did my first pump session today, and I’m just a bit confused. I thought it was supposed to get us fully hard. I’m not sure if I’m doing it right per say. I followed the instructions and watched a few YouTube vids. It just seems to expand the penis to a point, but not fully. I mean I’m going to keep doing it cause it’s in the protocol. Just wanted some input to see if others have this outcome as well.

Need some advice guys. So I might be getting lucky in about a month and things are going pretty good on the protocol, but is there anything I can take to give me a boost in the bedroom?

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Originally Posted by Revy

Oh ok, will remove the pregnelone. So just did my first pump session today, and I’m just a bit confused. I thought it was supposed to get us fully hard. I’m not sure if I’m doing it right per say. I followed the instructions and watched a few YouTube vids. It just seems to expand the penis to a point, but not fully. I mean I’m going to keep doing it cause it’s in the protocol. Just wanted some input to see if others have this outcome as well.

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It expands the penis more so then it would be able to naturally do. That's the point of it. To force blood into EVERY single capillary and vein because you aren't getting quality erections.

You get a much, much bigger erection after using the bathmate then you would without using it.

Yeah I definitely felt worse on 4 pumps than 3 pumps. I’ve done 4 pumps for a week and 3 pumps for a week.

Guess when you’re doing probormones more is not always better. Going to stick with 3 pumps a day now starting tomorrow and see if I get better, this week has been a bit of a blur.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

Yeah I definitely felt worse on 4 pumps than 3 pumps. I’ve done 4 pumps for a week and 3 pumps for a week.

Guess when you’re doing probormones more is not always better. Going to stick with 3 pumps a day now starting tomorrow and see if I get better, this week has been a bit of a blur.

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This your first cycle?

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

This your first cycle?

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Yeah it’s my first cycle. It’s been a downturn mostly but I can’t say that I didn’t expect that. I still look and feel healthier due to other parts of the protocol but not really noticing the “androcity”, if you will. The pumped muscles, the libido, the oily skin. They’re just not there.

But, again, I know lots of people don’t feel anything on their first cycle.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

Yeah it’s my first cycle. It’s been a downturn mostly but I can’t say that I didn’t expect that. I still look and feel healthier due to other parts of the protocol but not really noticing the “androcity”, if you will. The pumped muscles, the libido, the oily skin. They’re just not there.

But, again, I know lots of people don’t feel anything on their first cycle.

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How far in are you? Week wise?

And you're correct. Depending on your current state...you may not feel much, but much is happening behind the scenes so to speak.

This Thursday will be week 3 of 4. And I actually did miss one day, so I’ll probably end it next Friday to make up for that.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

This Thursday will be week 3 of 4. And I actually did miss one day, so I’ll probably end it next Friday to make up for that.

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Ok.

Then simply hop back on the herbs for two months and give it another shot.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

It expands the penis more so then it would be able to naturally do. That's the point of it. To force blood into EVERY single capillary and vein because you aren't getting quality erections.

You get a much, much bigger erection after using the bathmate then you would without using it.

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Oh ok, I see. Yeah I’ve started pumping 3 times a week like the protocol says. Thanks for the input cd. Sorry for the late reply. Been real busy with school. I decided to do a 6 week cycle on ultra hard and this is my last week. I would say at least 70 percent I felt good and had some ups and then 30 percent had some downs. I’m assuming this is normal?
I’ll be then starting pct for 8 weeks, then I’ll run another cycle. I hope I’ll feel even better on my second cycle of ultra hard. I hope my body doesn’t adapt and then it looses effectiveness like so many other treatments I have tried. Thanks guys.

I was also thinking of adding avena sativa to my herbal rotation once I come off cycle. Take it like once or twice a week. I’ve had my shbg tested a few years ago and it came back normal, so I’m not sure if adding it would be any benefit or may cause harm.

It’s just weird to me that even though my test levels are good I feel like an old ma sometimes. I was thinking maybe shbg is holding up testosterone, but then it could be propecia just wiped out enzymes; which is why prohormones are needed. Any input would be helpful. Thanks guys

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Originally Posted by Revy

I was also thinking of adding avena sativa to my herbal rotation once I come off cycle. Take it like once or twice a week. I’ve had my shbg tested a few years ago and it came back normal, so I’m not sure if adding it would be any benefit or may cause harm.

It’s just weird to me that even though my test levels are good I feel like an old ma sometimes. I was thinking maybe shbg is holding up testosterone, but then it could be propecia just wiped out enzymes; which is why prohormones are needed. Any input would be helpful. Thanks guys

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Avena Sativa does a good job at lowering SHBG......Once in rotation is good enough. Some of the other herbs have the same effect but with different mechanisms.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Avena Sativa does a good job at lowering SHBG......Once in rotation is good enough. Some of the other herbs have the same effect but with different mechanisms.

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Wanted to give an update. Been busy with stuff. Thanks CD for clarify the Avena Sativa. I did add that while doing my 8 week pct (which went pretty well). I’m currently on my second week of a prohormone cycle. So far what I’ve gotten from it was ball aches and minor libido enhancement. Still not there yet, but I’m continuing with the process. I know it takes time.