Ethan's Recovery Journal

I previously posted here in 2020 when I was fresh from PFS. I was mostly a physical case and was inconsistent with the protocol. Over time my wasted face gained more weight and I looked mostly healthy and became comfortable with where I was and dropped off the protocol. My symptoms were
-Anxiety (struggle to look others in the eye, can become overwhelmed in places like the mall or supermarket)
-Bloating
-Bad working memory
-Mild ED
-Can get hard with physical stimulation, not as strong as Pre-fin and doesnt last long without continued physical manipulation
-Can't keep erection while standing
-Have sexual thoughts, but can't get hard without manipulation
-Penis curved to left
-Mild Eye floaters
-Occasional pain in random areas of my body (possibly bone, not too bad)
-Muscle twitches (especially at night)
-Very very mild brain fog sometimes
-Gum recession
-Facial changes: fat loss, sunken eyes and cheeks, smaller chin, possibly smaller nose?, dry skin, loose skin that I can pull, aging, wrinkles under eyes and around mouth, crows feet, smaller face overall)

This PFS was mild and I could live a regular life, but realized this past January that I wanted to improve my sexual symptoms as I was starting to become more sexually active, and a health store worker recommended Panax Ginseng. Had no idea this was a 5ar inhibitor and I crashed hard after a few doses. Mentally and sexually nothing changed, but my physical condition has been wrecked. Its caused:
-PFS wasted face again, I was looking healthy and now look a bit worse than I did from the original PFS crash
-sensitive/aching gums
-muscle twitches all over (especially on my nose)
-ear clogging and pressure
-face pain on cheeks, jaw, etc
-Upset stomach/digestion
-muscle softening in most spots
-Slightly weaker erections and sex drive
-Feel a bit mentally slower/fogged
-BAD Muscle / Subcutaneous fat wastage
-If I flex my right bicep, I can push my finger into it and make an indent as if its play doh, even though the shape still looks the same, and the area aches from use
-Areas of face, scalp, neck feel like theres gaps of subcutaneous fat loss, like I can push the softer skin and there be nothing behind it except bone.
-Aches/twitches in these areas most affected
-Left foot feels like it has less padding when I walk
-Even skin on scalp and temple feels like its lost something behind it, is uncomfortable to lay my head against on surface on these areas
-Scared this wont get better and have become self conscious as my face looks sickly
-all of the original symptoms remain

So, yeah, massive massive mistake from a stupid decision and Im worse now than I was 3 years ago. Going to take the protocol seriously this time because I'm scared shitless. Started my 7 day juice fast this morning and will take it from there. Hoping to make a decent physical improvement by the summer.

Hey, mate welcome back! I can give some advice for your erectile issues with Curvature and the standing/positional ED and possibly your muscle twitches and pain. I believe they may be caused by Pelvic Floor Dysfunction (PFD) which I have seen quite a few cases being induced by Finasteride since it can be induced via Stress causing unconscious clenching of the pelvic floor.

Give this a try and learn about Kegels and Reverse Kegels, and also strengthen your Posterior chain (Glutes, Adductors, Quads, Lower Back etc.) + Abdominals and let me know how you're getting on.

Overcome Male Pelvic Floor Dysfunction - 30 Minute Healing Routine/Stretches - YouTube

Also, ERECT IC Kegels have helped with my Erection Quality. Essentially when you're Erect you perform a reverse kegel. In short, it's attempting to Piss/Fart at the same time without too much tension in your stomach. Sounds ridiculous I know, however, It worked for me. Don't do this too often, treat it as training. 1 day on 1/2 day(s) off. It should feel like you're forcing more blood into the penis.

Also after watching lots of Andrew Huberman, intense anxiety can induce memory/brain-fog issues so I'd recommend some meditation and some self-love, sitting in the bath for a bit with music or going swimming or doing something fun and focusing on living in the moment! :)

Bloating might be caused by some inflammatory response due to foods so watch your diet for a bit and see how it goes.

You'll be good to go soon enough man! :cool:

Hey Kurse!
Thanks for that advice man, I appreciate it a lot. I'll definitely try out some of those pelvic floor stretches and update. You think thats why my body gets those muscle twitches often when I masturabate? or is that a different hormonal issue. Thanks man

Oh it twitches when you masturbate? Then it's HIGHLY likely that it's Pelvic Floor Dysfunction in my honest opinion. Unconscious Kegels are muscle spasms that occur when you have a hypertonic pelvic floor! You need to learn how to control them with reverse kegels and relax when you masturbate! I also recommend masturbating less often since the more kegels you do in your current state the more your symptoms may continue to get worse.

Oh and I forgot to mention STRESS makes this condition quite a bit worse. I know it's difficult but you have to find a way to control your anxiety and stress in order to get better man! It's not going to be easy but it's definitely possible!

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Originally Posted by Kurse

Oh it twitches when you masturbate? Then it's HIGHLY likely that it's Pelvic Floor Dysfunction in my honest opinion. Unconscious Kegels are muscle spasms that occur when you have a hypertonic pelvic floor! You need to learn how to control them with reverse kegels and relax when you masturbate! I also recommend masturbating less often since the more kegels you do in your current state the more your symptoms may continue to get worse.

Oh and I forgot to mention STRESS makes this condition quite a bit worse. I know it's difficult but you have to find a way to control your anxiety and stress in order to get better man! It's not going to be easy but it's definitely possible!

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It isn’t my genital area that twitches when I masturbate, it’s like other areas of my body. My nose is often where it happens. Super weird, maybe a sign that masturbation is a no go for me since I always get twitches when I do something bad for my body

On day 5 of my 7 day feast, I think my eyes look less hollow/drug addict-y but otherwise haven't noticed any differences but thats to be expected as I'm a physical/sexual case which takes a bit longer. Really worried about my face / head and can't seem to find anyone on the forum whose improved from what I've experienced. My hope is that its a reversible atrophy of muscle on cheeks/temples/under eyes and a thinning of skin due to loss of collagen, rather than something more sinister like irreversible disappearance of subcutaneous fat.

Very thankful to not experience crippling fatigue, insomnia, impotence, or bad mental effects like intense brain fog or anhedonia. I can very much live a regular-ish live outside of mild ed, some aches and pains, wastage, etc. Regardless, I'm still very worried about my face changes and am feeling insecure. I look very skinny and the skin texture feels thinner particularly on the left side of my face, like I can smile and have crow's feet going into my cheeks even though I'm only 20.

I read that low estrogen can cause some of these facial issues, and in the past with PFS I tested very low for estrogen and LH. Perhaps once my estrogen gets back to normal these issues will solve themselves.

Yes I do think estrogen or lack of might be behind a lot of the facial ageing.

Skin, Bone Muscle

This guy recovered those symptoms you're worried about, you've actually commented here before :)

Me?
Thanks brother bht imagine if he took an antipsychotic afterwards....

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Originally Posted by Kurse

Skin, Bone Muscle

This guy recovered those symptoms you're worried about, you've actually commented here before :)

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Hey man. Its a bit different for me than that guys cause it isn't like generalized weight loss/ muscle wastage. Its like a loss of subcutaneous fat around my face which makes it looks wasted, but without the rest of my body losing weight. Like my temples for example have ached and lost fat, and the skin is mushier now.

Though, you're extremely thoughtful with the commented you've made on my posts and I appreciate you putting in the effort to find these things for me. I appreciate it a lot

Broke my 7 day juice fast with some raspberries and blueberries. Noticed they kinda made my stomach turn and I feel a bit gassy so I think I ate too many too fast. Gonna have bone broth when I wake up tomorrow.
Didnt notice anything crazy on the fast besides the fact that my penile sensitivity seems really good right now. Could also be due to the fact that I'm a week into nofap.
@biatch told me he recovered from subcutaneous fat loss on the face and temples so I'm feeling a lot more positive.

That’s the name of the game fellas

Did the 1 week juice fast, and have been exercising, eating paleo, and cycling a few herbs this past week. Have noticed some improvements.
-Face looks fuller, cheekbones aren't popping out. Eyes look less sad and have gained 7 pounds.
-Biceps don't hurt when lifting anymore
-Got morning wood for the first time in forever
-Digestion is getting a bit better each day, less stomach aches after eating
Seems promising and I haven't fully started cycling herbs yet. I just have tongkat and rhodiola right now.

Feeling alright. Getting used to this paleo diet and it isn't hard at all. Need to increase my vegetable intake though.
Loving tongkat ali, I really feel the oomph when I take it. HGW seems good too. Tried maca and got really anxious and dick felt dead so I'll be binning that.

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Originally Posted by ethanrecovering

Feeling alright. Getting used to this paleo diet and it isn't hard at all. Need to increase my vegetable intake though.
Loving tongkat ali, I really feel the oomph when I take it. HGW seems good too. Tried maca and got really anxious and dick felt dead so I'll be binning that.

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It's alot easier then living with PFS.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

It's alot easier then living with PFS.

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Definitely.
Glad to have you back CD

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Originally Posted by ethanrecovering

Definitely.
Glad to have you back CD

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Thank you.

Feeling worse the last couple days. Dick is in hourglass shape and ED feels a bit worse, getting those muscle twitches everywhere like after a crash, have that clogged ear feeling, dry eyes, face looks more tired. I dont know why this happening after I was feeling great for a couple weeks there. Wondering if its any herbs I've taken, as maca made me feel like shit.

Have also concluded that I'm a low estrogen case. When I got tested back in 2020 and 2021, my estrogen was tanked, less than 10 pg/ml. Testosterone was 484. Dry skin, ED/low libido, subcutanous fat loss and collagen loss, thinning skin, cracking joints, anxiety are all symptoms of low estrogen. What makes this trickier is I don't know what herbs to take since I've heard some of them lower estrogen and I feel like it'll crash me. Anyone know which herbs would be best if I'm trying to raise both testosterone and estrogen, but mostly estrogen?
I think for now I'm just gonna do TMO without the herbs, since I think im still in a sensitive crash state and want my body to just sort itself out a bit.

Okay yep, I've crashed further. I think it was the maca as I felt really weird within an hour of taking it. Further fat loss all over my body, and have dents of fat loss where the skin feels stretchy and mushy. These spots ached a few days ago and twitched and now I can see the damage. A part of my bicep, my wrist, and my lower left cheek on my face the fat just evaporated and left loose skin. This physical stuff is an absolute freaking nightmare, it makes me completely forget about the fact I still have ED. And so few guys have experienced this so its hard to get reassurance.
Completed a 48 hour fast and am dropping herbs for now.

I realized tongkat Ali is a aromatase inhibitor, which likely crashed my already tanked estrogen and maca finished the job. Which is why my skin/subcutaneous fat (things modulated by estrogen) worsened. I'm really insecure of wrinkles under my eyes when smiling.
I'm doing the protocol herb free now. Did carnivore OMAD for a few days to promote some gut cleansing and autophagy. Getting back into normal paleo and will do everything else.

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Originally Posted by ethanrecovering

I realized tongkat Ali is a aromatase inhibitor, which likely crashed my already tanked estrogen and maca finished the job. Which is why my skin/subcutaneous fat (things modulated by estrogen) worsened. I'm really insecure of wrinkles under my eyes when smiling.
I'm doing the protocol herb free now. Did carnivore OMAD for a few days to promote some gut cleansing and autophagy. Getting back into normal paleo and will do everything else.

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I've never had anyone crash that bad from any herbs that were recommended. Are some herbs better for some people then others, sure, but none of them are going to decimate you. They wouldn't be recommended if that was even the case. Typically for the guys that don't respond favorably to some herbs, it's recommended they simply chose another one and stop taking the ones that don't sit right with them.

Carnivore diet, while it can have it's place, isn't going to be as cleansing as fruit and veggies.

Tongkat is more then just an AI. Even the Ai properties it has isn't enough to crash you. You'd get more benefit from it then not. Maca.....that one can be tricky for some guys. Some love it, some hate it. Tongkat is tried and true.

You're doing yourself a disservice by excluding the herbs as it's a huge component of getting your hormones sorted.

If you're not already, I would suggest taking pine pollen daily, as it has DHEA as one of it's constituents which helps the body regulate ALL hormones. If he shou wu isn't in your line up, it should be as well as that is another one that modulates estrogen.

Update: Have been on TMO without herbs/supplements and breathing exercises (need to start this) for around a month and a half.
-Cold showers make me feel really good after, definitely increases energy and awareness
-When I eat anything non-paleo or edge/masturbate at all I get the twitches and mild brain fog
-The few times that I have ejaculated I feel mini crashes in the following days
I think I've been improving a bit. My under eyes look a bit less hollow, face gained some weight, body odor is more normal, twitches lessening. However, I am in a downswing I think since a couple days ago and have the clogged ear feeling, some twitches, some anxiety/brain fog etc. I think ill incorporate LEH horny goat weed soon and do a very small dose and see how I feel.

Its been a couple months since my last post.
April was a good month for me, I felt not so bad and wasn't at all worsening. I was able to masturbate once a week with no issue and was putting on a ton of muscle mass. I also had a few day fluctuation where I had bad shaking anxiety and then it passed. I know fluctuations are a good sign. I was doing everything in tmo except herb rotation due to previous tongkat and maca issues.

In May things fell off the wagon. At the start of the month I masturbated once and was fine, but then again a few days later and had a moderate crash (hourglass dick, aching in temples and biceps where I've previously lost subcutaneous fat, varicocele aching, twitches, anxiety, etc., and weirdly that DHT mpb itch in my crow for a couple days) These would last a few days and then stop and then come back a few days later with even small things such as releasing precum from simply being turned on. I only fully orgasmed once in may, but any little release of precum had me in a little crashing cycle with those aches and it was incredibly frustrating. It made me scared to get any sort of boner throughout my day. I was on full NoFap for the month aside from small edging here and there. Ill admit though that I had around 6 cheat meals throughout the month as I went out a lot with friends and it was hard to pass up. Ive since locked it down.

Last week I started an internship and was very nervous the first day. It made me realize just how bad my anxiety is from pfs as I was shaking hard when talking in front of a group of 10ish people. I felt myself crash hard on that first day within minutes of the public speaking. My varicocele was aching bad, nipples ached, my scalp felt like it was on fire and was shedding (mpb itch x20), twitches and aches all over, and lost more subcutaneous fat and/or muscle all over (particularly in legs and forearms). Since then those aches have settled and the scalp itch lessened, but it flares up when I feel any amount of stress at work. For example, i spoke to my boss and felt mildly nervous and within a minute my scalp had that burning sensation and has been shedding in the hairline and crown the last few hours. This is just absurd and I'm at a loss.

Its hard to stay positive when i'm so sensitive to any amount of stress or ejaculation and keep crashing. Stability is needed to keep a productive mindset. And I don't get how my scalp burning coincides with other crash symptoms, as that's a sign of dht spiking, yet all my other symptoms seem like low estrogen and testosterone symptoms.
I'm doing a 2 day fast to clear out some toxins and will extend it if possible, perhaps will extend it with juicing if I feel weak at work.

Any guidance would be helpful, as well as anyone knowing what's up with my scalp or how this sensitivity with stress and precum can be dealt with. Particularly at work where my anxiety is sky high

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Originally Posted by ethanrecovering

Its been a couple months since my last post.
April was a good month for me, I felt not so bad and wasn't at all worsening. I was able to masturbate once a week with no issue and was putting on a ton of muscle mass. I also had a few day fluctuation where I had bad shaking anxiety and then it passed. I know fluctuations are a good sign. I was doing everything in tmo except herb rotation due to previous tongkat and maca issues.

In May things fell off the wagon. At the start of the month I masturbated once and was fine, but then again a few days later and had a moderate crash (hourglass dick, aching in temples and biceps where I've previously lost subcutaneous fat, varicocele aching, twitches, anxiety, etc., and weirdly that DHT mpb itch in my crow for a couple days) These would last a few days and then stop and then come back a few days later with even small things such as releasing precum from simply being turned on. I only fully orgasmed once in may, but any little release of precum had me in a little crashing cycle with those aches and it was incredibly frustrating. It made me scared to get any sort of boner throughout my day. I was on full NoFap for the month aside from small edging here and there. Ill admit though that I had around 6 cheat meals throughout the month as I went out a lot with friends and it was hard to pass up. Ive since locked it down.

Last week I started an internship and was very nervous the first day. It made me realize just how bad my anxiety is from pfs as I was shaking hard when talking in front of a group of 10ish people. I felt myself crash hard on that first day within minutes of the public speaking. My varicocele was aching bad, nipples ached, my scalp felt like it was on fire and was shedding (mpb itch x20), twitches and aches all over, and lost more subcutaneous fat and/or muscle all over (particularly in legs and forearms). Since then those aches have settled and the scalp itch lessened, but it flares up when I feel any amount of stress at work. For example, i spoke to my boss and felt mildly nervous and within a minute my scalp had that burning sensation and has been shedding in the hairline and crown the last few hours. This is just absurd and I'm at a loss.

Its hard to stay positive when i'm so sensitive to any amount of stress or ejaculation and keep crashing. Stability is needed to keep a productive mindset. And I don't get how my scalp burning coincides with other crash symptoms, as that's a sign of dht spiking, yet all my other symptoms seem like low estrogen and testosterone symptoms.
I'm doing a 2 day fast to clear out some toxins and will extend it if possible, perhaps will extend it with juicing if I feel weak at work.

Any guidance would be helpful, as well as anyone knowing what's up with my scalp or how this sensitivity with stress and precum can be dealt with. Particularly at work where my anxiety is sky high

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How are you getting on with Meditation, breathing, taking calming walks in nature, cold showers part of the protocol?
Please don’t be offended, but I think you’re struggling psychologically at this stage of your recovery and I think you really need to get control of your mind. Until you do you’re going to be stuck in this stressed fight or flight state. You’re over analysing every step. Why not take some of the herbs? The ones that help calm you, adding one at a time.
Honestly I think you just need to do a big mind reset, get on the protocol 100% and stop questioning and researching your condition, but accept where you are, but give yourself massive belief your going to recover.
You will get there Ethan, but you really do need to adopt this positive mindset, no mater how difficult it may seem.

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Originally Posted by Mjw1999

How are you getting on with Meditation, breathing, taking calming walks in nature, cold showers part of the protocol?
Please don’t be offended, but I think you’re struggling psychologically at this stage of your recovery and I think you really need to get control of your mind. Until you do you’re going to be stuck in this stressed fight or flight state. You’re over analysing every step. Why not take some of the herbs? The ones that help calm you, adding one at a time.
Honestly I think you just need to do a big mind reset, get on the protocol 100% and stop questioning and researching your condition, but accept where you are, but give yourself massive belief your going to recover.
You will get there Ethan, but you really do need to adopt this positive mindset, no mater how difficult it may seem.

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Hey Mjw, thanks for the response.
I'll admit I havent really taken the breathing/meditation part seriously and only have been on it for the last week. Cold showers and walks i do, as well as the diet and lifting. I agree, I definitely havent mentally relaxed and maybe the stress is what keeps me in this crash state.
The herbs just freak me out so much. Ive heard horror stories with cistanche, ashwagandha, and tribulus. As well as my own experiences with small crashes in the days following tongkat and maca. I do take magnesium glycinate before bed though. Ill look into the list more and see about some of the very mild calming ones.
I appreciated this message, thanks man.

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Originally Posted by ethanrecovering

Hey Mjw, thanks for the response.
I'll admit I havent really taken the breathing/meditation part seriously and only have been on it for the last week. Cold showers and walks i do, as well as the diet and lifting. I agree, I definitely havent mentally relaxed and maybe the stress is what keeps me in this crash state.
The herbs just freak me out so much. Ive heard horror stories with cistanche, ashwagandha, and tribulus. As well as my own experiences with small crashes in the days following tongkat and maca. I do take magnesium glycinate before bed though. Ill look into the list more and see about some of the very mild calming ones.
I appreciated this message, thanks man.

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I know exactly how you feel Ethan. My head was completely messed up. But when I realised how much damage the negative mind was having on my body and every day functioning, that was the day I switched over to working on positivity and belief. The body listens to the mind. So send it a positive message, a message of belief.

I’ve been totally messed up too, but my recovery is real close now and I’ll be posting soon. I’m at one of the happiest stages of my life ever right now! I’m 14 months into the protocol. I’m starting to think my ordeal with Pfs was a blessing I feel that good!

You can do the same! You’re young and will respond well. Im 48 in a few months, so if I can then so can you.

Just do a big positive mental reset and fill yourself with belief, you will be fine.