Strato's road to recovery

Hi everyone,

This is my first post to the forum and introduction to myself and my journey with hair loss, finasteride and healing from PFS.

*Fair warning, this is a really long post and that's deliberate.* This is going to be more like a complete story of my journey, rather than a simple post. I want to include as much detail as possible so that those experiencing PFS, hair loss or thinking about taking finasteride, can gain insights, inspiration and hope for making it through their own journeys. I also want to make it clear that my key and only intention is to share my authentic experience with finasteride and my recovery journey from PFS for others to see. I am not trying to convince you one way or another in regards to anything and simply don't believe in proselytizing in this way as I will always respect your choice to do with this information whatever you see is best for your life. Again, this is simply my truth and my experience, that's it. So let's begin.

Brief Thank You To Cdnuts + Positive Members Here

Firstly, I found out about CDnuts a couple of months ago via Reddit forums and have since been learning all I could on the TMO website + the swolesource forums. I can already say that I have immense gratitude in just finding this self-empowered community for PFS, led by cd. I absolutely fundamentally believe that our bodies have the capacity and intelligence to self-heal (of course with the right habits and practices supporting this process), and as soon as I found out about cd, TMO and this forum, I could immediately pick up on the fundamental energy of positivity, inner strength and self-belief needed to overcome the challenges we face in life. Countless times, I have seen how key the power of attitude is when it comes to the positive transformations we wish to create in our life, and that inner absolute knowing that I can heal from PFS is already unshakable in me right now. I believe this is the absolute fundamental step in any positive goal or vision, claiming it as already yours in the here and now.

Having said this, it has been and continues to be a tough and hellish road with my PFS symptoms, and so I can only thank the positive members of this forum who have already healed for persevering through their own journeys (I have likely read your inspiring recovery threads already) along with cd himself, for having the courage and strength to not only pioneer his own healing over a decade ago, but then put out this process for others to see and weathering the general doom and negativity that seems to be prevalent around the whole topic of PFS. Anyhow, this is already sounding like a recovery testimonial and we've only just begun - but I guess this just shows how just having the right mindsets, knowledge and community support can be a godsend in and of itself even before the healing journey itself has properly begun.

My Hair loss Beginnings + My First Encounter With Finasteride - Oct 2014 - April 2017

Back in Oct 2014, when I was 19, I first noticed the corners of my hairline receding. I rapidly went from having a straight a hairline to a noticeable windows peak in a matters of weeks and naturally it shocked me. I always felt I was decently good looking and I got attention from girls during high school, but my look was always a more refined and softer masculine style, kind of like a Timothee Chalamet or younger Hugh Grant (although I'm not saying I was as good looking as these guys, just that general style). I was also naturally very pale with a skinny ectomorph type of build. Therefore, with all this considered, the prospect of losing my hair and going bald at such a young age was an absolute no-go to me. I felt it would completely negatively change my look and vibes (a view I held for basically all of my 20s too). I was trying to get into performing at the time and was at that age where looks felt so much more important to everyone than they ultimately are - and I did not want to be a 19 year old pale, skinny, dweeby, balding/bald guy.

So not knowing about the possibility of it simply being my mature hairline coming in VS male pattern baldness (looking back I think it was likely a combination of both as I have the genetic pattern for baldness in my family), I went to my local doctors and he put me on 1mg daily Finasteride without even blinking an eye. At no point were potential side effects even discussed, and to my 19 year old brain all I doing was just popping some kind of safe pill like a supplement or paracetamol that would give me healthy and thick hair and keep it like that. I had no idea about DHT, hormones or anything like that and hardly any further thought was put to it than this (naive and foolish on my for sure, but I was barely 19 and honestly didn't even think to think of the potential consequences of what I was doing).

So on the same day I had the doctor's appointment, I popped my first 1mg pill. Although it is somewhat of a blur having happened around 9 years ago at this point, my recollection is that I had near immediate side effects over the first week of taking it. I remember clearly my erections definitely becoming weaker and overall feeling off in my body. I actually found old WhatsApp messages during this time with evidence of me and my ex-girlfriend talking about this happening to me - we kept referring to my ED/sexual sides as me still experiencing 'the thing happening again'.

After a week or two on it, I remember I ended up dropping the dose to 0.5mg (1/2 a tablet) every other day and that seeming to help a bit. And so, for virtually all of my first run on finasteride, my finasteride side effects never really progressed further than this. I mostly had less hard erections at like 85-90%, slightly decreased libido, slightly lower energy etc. But overall the sides were manageable and worth it to me considering my hair sprouted thicker than ever before and my hairline came back in to the point I was able to style it anyway I wanted to. It looked healthy, thick and great and my confidence definitely came back about my hair and overall appearance and lasted for years like this. I was able to push the issue of hair loss to the back of my mind, however, if I was truly honest with myself at the time, I was always faintly concerned about the side effects I was experiencing at the same time.

All in all, I stayed on finasteride for over 3 years in this cycle until my side effects starting getting steadily more and more noticeable throughout late 2016/early 2017. I started noticing things like my facial shape looking rounder/softer, more fat deposits and even cellulite developing on my body (despite no changes to my diet and fitness regime), and continued lowering libido and erection quality (75-85% strength towards the final months). While I still could have potentially lived with these things, as the weeks and months rolled on, I started to develop this knowing that I had just had to get off finasteride and get symptom free and my body back to normal. And so, despite the risk of losing my hair, eventually my concern built up to such a point that my conscience won out and I tapered off and eventually quit finasteride in April 2017, 3 years and 5 months after first starting it.

My Life and Hair Off Finasteride - April 2017 to June 2022

Within a matter of weeks of quitting, I remember noticing how good I started feeling and how much better life in general felt again. My erections came back in fully strength, my muscles and body started looking more masculine and defined, my energy levels shot up, my outlook on life became more positive and goal-oriented, my libido was in full force. Most importantly of all, I felt a lot of peace and relief that I'd decided to get off it. Despite the great hair results, I knew it was not good for my body and to know I was no longer exposing it to a drug for cosmetic reasons, even if it wasn't extremely bad for me, felt like the right choice.

When it came to my hair, it definitely thinned out quite rapidly. I have photos from the period when I first hopped off and my hair almost immediately looked thinner and less full - but to my delighted surprised the thinning leveled out to a point I was decently happy with. Sure I didn't have the thickest hair, but I could still get nice haircuts, had a decent hairline and overall it looked absolutely fine to the point I still had overall confidence in myself and my hair.

And so over about the next 5 years I was off finasteride, I was able to just get on with my life. I finished my bachelor's degree, spent time traveling around India and Europe, got super into self-development, got my first corporate job, quit this job to start up my own business, experienced a couple of long-term relationships and went through a spiritual awakening.

My Hair Loss Crisis + Shaving My Head - June 2022 - July 2022

Now despite getting on with my life quite well on the whole and having lots of these various life experiences, the one thing that remained very tightly at the core of my ego's fears, insecurities and attachments was my physical appearance. And the biggest part of that, was my hair. Even though it often didn't actively bother me or affect my quality of life during this time, no matter what I did, I couldn't fully put a stop to the subtle, nagging anxiety of eventually going bald.

Over the 5+ year off finasteride, I definitely notice a slow yet continual progression of hair loss happening when I looked in the mirror. It was slow, but it was happening and deep down, it bothered me. Gradually, month after month, year after year it kept thinning and eventually got to the point where one day, in around late 2020 at age 26, I saw my reflection underneath the elevator lighting in my apartment and could clearly see my skull through my thinning hair and hairline. This was a hugely deflating experience at the time and made me realize I truly undeniably was going bald (I had a Jude Law type of recession).

And so in this state of desperation, I researched some solutions and decided to hop on topical minxodil (regaine foam). Despite minor tension in the area that I applied it to that lasted a minute or so after application, the regaine was thankfully fine and I had no other side effects. The only downside was that it didn't create any great results or regrowth. It only marginally helped to somewhat thicken and slow down the rate of my hair loss - but given it minxodil does nothing to stop DHT, there's no real surprise here.

And so finally, after about a year and a half of being on topical minoxidil solo, the increasing anxiety due my progressing hair loss reached a breaking point. I decided something else had to be done because I could no longer live so self-consciously and with a constant sense of impending doom and low confidence over my hair loss. So on a whim, I decided to just shave my head completely and embrace the bald look. I'd seen this channel on YouTube called Baldcafe throughout this time, which had video of countless positive transformations of guys who embraces their baldness and shaved their head and loved it. So this, along with my spiritual and inner healing work I was also doing at the time around my insecurities and issues, definitely helped inspire me to do the same and embrace this natural path.

However, instead of feeling liberated by my new shaved head, it thrust me even lower into anxiety and depression as I just hated it looked and how I perceived it changed my whole vibe and attractiveness when interacting with others and just living in the world. Of course, even if this was partly true, I now realize that this was hugely overblown in my head at the time due to the anxious and unconfident mess of a state of mind I was in over everything. I now believe anyone can pull off the bald look with the right inner beliefs, authentic self-confidence, self-worth and attitude you put out to others and the world. Sure having a full head of hair is often nicer and preferable for most people (including me if I'm honest), but at the end of the day, I now realize it you truly are in your character that has the ultimate and most powerful, lasting effects in your life.

So anyway, with my new bald look not working for me at all at the time, I decided to let it all grow back and quickly plunged into researching treatment methods for my hair loss. I obviously knew about finasteride, but was resistant to taking it due to my own fairly negative past experience with it. Yet after an exhaustive and intensive multi-week long research effort into all kind of unapproved research chemicals, alternate cutting-edge treatments, transplants etc. (all with their own set of pros and cons), I arrived at the conclusion that topical finasteride at a 0.025% concentration (equivalent to 0.25mg or 1/4 of a 1mg oral pill) was likely the safest, surest, least likely to cause side-effects option out there for me. There were several studies of topical finasteride at lower dosages suppressing markedly less systemic DHT and yet comparable scalp DHT to oral finasteride and I found several anecdotal reports of guys who previously suffered sides on oral fin having no sides after switching to topical finasteride. Everything pointed to this being a safe and viable option. So after doing my due diligence, I decided to give it a go. In that moment, my mindset was completely determined to try anything to get my hair back and not go through with my current bald/shaved look.

Edit: The first 4 posts were originally posted on March 10th, 2023 in a separate thread - they have been reposted in bulk to this new thread

Spiraling Into Hell - My Second Stint On Finasteride - July 2022 - November 2022

So with an open mind and reasonably high hopes (certainly no strong sense of expectation of bad side effects occurring at all), I tried the topical finasteride.

For my first dose, I actually decided to make a 0.01% concentration (equivalent to 0.1mg, just 1/10th the dosage of a normal 1mg pill) just to be safe and ease my body into it. I also decided I would apply the topical dose every 2-3 days to not overdo it given the drug's half-life and DHT's slower return to baseline over multiple days.

So there I was, sitting on my couch about 15-20mins after applying the first topical dose when it happened. I remember it so vividly. It was like in an instant, a switch turned off in my body. Like a robot whose battery power pack has been unplugged from its socket; it makes that mechanical battery dying sound as its power drains away and it switches off completely. It literally felt exactly like that and I swear inside my own mind I almost heard something to this effect actually happening. Something just instantly de-powered and switched off inside me an instant.

As this happened, I immediately felt profoundly wrong in my being. It's so hard to even describe what this is like until you experience it. It was like a fundamental equilibrium had been thrown off inside me and shocked my body which had no idea what happening or how to help itself. My dick felt immediately disconnected from the rest of my body and my brain. My testicles began aching with a 7/10 pain every few seconds. My erections reduced to 70% or even less of normal strength and fullness in the first day. I felt zapped and depleted in such strange way. It was like an my very life force energy as a man had be thrown out of whack, kind of like when Austin Powers loses his mojo lol Suffice to say, something felt just very wrong and I was completely shocked that I could have such a strong reaction on such a low dose (and topical at that!). This was absolutely not something mentally in my head for those wondering, no no no. It felt like a completely physiological bodily response and reaction way beyond me merely psyching myself out or nocebo-ing myself with sides.

That same day, I went online to look up what was happening to me, what these symptoms were about and what to do. I didn't really find anything on PFS at that time, only some people suggesting to quit the finasteride immediately if sides presented. However, the much stronger and consistent advice was to just push on and to give your body a chance to adjust - that the testicle ache will go away after a week, the symptoms will likely level out in a few weeks etc. Many guys especially on topical finasteride were saying that this is what happened to them and that they were glad they didn't quit and saw it through.

And so as shocked as I was that this had all come on so suddenly, since I was already neck deep in this emotional hair loss journey and wanted to try everything to keep my hair, I decided to hold on a bit longer and see if things would level out and resolve themselves. Very foolish I know, but this is the decision I made. I upped my dose to the full 0.025% concentration (0.25mg or 1/4 of a 1mg pill equivalent) as I figured I may as well test the dosage I planned on staying at as this was the minimum dosage scientifically proven to still be effective. I tried this dose topically two more times, each spaced out 3 days apart.

During these first 10 days or so, my testicle ache continued almost constantly to a degree I woke up most nights in pain and had to take paracetamol every 4-5 hours continually overlapped just to function. The whole lower half of my body - especially my dick but including my legs and feet - felt numb. It was like a had a light anesthetic cream applied to my legs and the soles of my feet and when I walked around my house or along the pavement, the normal sensation of pressure from the ground felt muted. I started feeling progressively anxious and anguished over my symptoms as well as generally exhausted and depleted of energy in my body. Especially due to the constant testicular pain, it felt like I was living in a constant fight or flight mode survival response the entire time. My sole effort each day was simply making it through and hoping that my body would somehow adjust and these symptoms would pass. Yet they didn't subside and just under two weeks into the topical finasteride, I decided I had to stop it.

This is where is where things get really abysmally stupid. During this week or two on the topical finasteride, I kept reading on forums all reassuring that things would eventually be fine and level out if I just stuck on the finasteride long enough. No doubt in my desperate state I was filtering out these answers as a part of me was devastated that this had went so badly and still couldn't accept that I'd have to accept my hair loss after all, basically right away. I wasn't ready to face this and so I holding onto these hopeful ideas that the finasteride could still work. I started recalling my first run on finasteride 5 years prior too and recalling how it was no where near as bad this topical experience - anywhere close. I kept ruminating over the fact that I was on such a low dose right now AND how it was also topical, so in theory it should not have been causing the extent of side effects it was. I couldn't even come across anyone online who reported such extreme symptoms such as the testicle ache from low dose topical. I started to think that for some reason the topical administration had messed with body in some strange interaction that was highly unusual.

At the time, I remember also thinking: if this is already happening to me, how much worse could it be? At worse, the same symptoms on oral would continue and I'd then just stop taking it and everything will go back to normal like it did like last time. It would still be a very shitty and shocking episode in my life, but I'd ultimately be fine in a couple of weeks. I didn't really realize what PFS was really about or the possibility of persistent sides even after stopping fin. These horror cases seemed to be such razor thin percentage that some doctors even doubted whether PFS was a real thing. I honestly just assumed I'd be absolutely fine once I quit. Or better yet, I remember thinking I'd able to handle the oral fin relatively well like before, my body would adjust like others reported, my symptoms would subside, my hair would grow thick as ever and everything would be great again. I'd be back to feeling confident, attractive, motivated and excited to live my most amazing life again without this hair loss issue (at least for years to come). I'd come this far, hadn't I? It seemed worth one final try… So I stopped the topical and switched to 0.25mg (1/4 of a tablet) dose of oral finasteride every 3 days.

Again if you judge me for doing this, I completely understand that and in fact, I deserve it for not listening to my body and stopping finasteride as soon any of the first side effects showed, no matter whether topical or oral. I was in a desperate, impaired and traumatized emotional state when making this decision. At that time, it felt like my life had become completely consumed by this whole hair loss crisis and a part of me wanted to be able to say I left no stone unturned when it came to doing whatever I could to keep my hair.

And to some extent, I was right. Things did improve. Within a day or so of switching to the oral, my testicle ache faded away. This was massively relieving and allowed me to better function throughout the day again. This in and of itself somehow made me feel more together and kept me optimistic to see what else would level out if I kept going. Yet every three days I would take my 0.25mg oral pill, for the majority of that same day it was being processed through my body, I would be hit with a feeling of low energy and fatigue. On some days, I was able to function through this state of depletion and even be able to make it to the gym to lift (although I almost always felt weaker than I was pre-fin). Whereas on other days, I felt almost couch bound for a whole afternoon with zero energy as the most intense of effects of the finasteride were hitting me.

Throughout several weeks of this on/off yo-yoing pattern, my dick continued to feel disconnected from my brain, my legs and lower body still felt semi-anesthetized, my erection-quality remained poor at 60-70% pre-fin, and my emotions, mood and mindset continued to fluctuate from okay to anxious, negative and depressed. I did have some somewhat positive moods too where I was able to laugh and enjoy some moments in life - it wasn't all doom and gloom 100% of the time. But these were fleeting amidst these constant fluctuations and even when they were happening, felt accompanied by a constant lingering background burden of overwhelm and concern with what I was happening to me. On the whole, it was no way to live by any means and not sustainable long-term. My quality of life was definitely negative overall.

So if the symptoms were not obviously disappearing after multiple weeks and my quality of life was low, why didn't I quit then? Well because something else rather remarkable was happening at the same time. The results I was getting from the finasteride were quite frankly incredible. Incredible given that most people are told to wait up to potentially 6-months to even 1 year+ before they are told to expect the first signs of real results and up to 2 years before they should even judge the final result finasteride had on their hair. And that's with one 1mg daily whereas I was on 0.25mg (although still arguably almost just as strong a dose) but it was every 3 days.

During the first one to two weeks on finasteride, my hair first went through a strong initial shed. My hair thinned out almost everywhere and even the typically DHT resistant donor zones (especially on the sides of my head near my temples) thinned out and looked almost patchy. This didn't really bother me as I knew about the common initial shed phase and simply took it as a positive sign that things were working well and to expect great regrowth sooner than later.

And around 6 weeks later, by around the 7-8 week total mark, my fresh hair follicles had really sprouted out all over and my hair started looking thicker and healthier than I almost ever recall it being - to the extent one of my friends immediately commented on it as soon as he saw me for the fist time in several months. My hairline temples were even filling in to the point my hairline looked fine - certainly not straight or full like a Brad Pitt, but decent enough that I would have been happy for life if it had stayed at that level. I honestly couldn't believe it - but then again, it kind of made sense in a cruelly ironic way. I was not only a hypersensitive to finasteride's effects but also a hyper-responder to finasteride's effect. I couldn't win lol. Smh. Hearing all this, I get it if you think I'm exaggerating about the results or perhaps you don't believe them outright or even think it's possible to see results like this in such a short time given the telogen phase of a hair follicle typically being around 3 or more months, not 8 or so weeks, but this is what happened to me. I have the photos - countless of them that I took on a daily basis in similar lighting from all kinds of angles and there's no denying the progress. I also was on a very high dose biotin supplement at the time to speed up the process of hair growth (which also made my nails grow in super fast) and so it's possible this assisted it too.

But anyway, the key point is that for a brief window, I felt a confidence in my hair and thus overall appearance that I hadn't experienced in years. This definitely felt great and I even went on a couple of dates at the time with some really attractive girls who were also interested in me. I still felt like a sexual and energetic shell of myself on the dates, but somehow let some confidence and charisma shine through. I remember taking a photo of myself with a beaming joyful smile one morning as I basked in my new hair. This was the really the only positive part of my finasteride journey and it was fleeting and enshrouded by massive suffering. The whole time my hair was getting better and better, my symptoms were getting worse and worse. In fact, after about the 6 week mark, my entire life started to derail before my eyes at an alarming speed. I didn't realize just how bad things got until I was able to look back on it all from a bit of a distance.

And so I began spiraling into hell. Firstly, my libido started to become severely diminished to the point where I felt literally asexual and incapable of being turned on. I had to be face-to-face with porn (which I turned to every few days out of desperation to see if I was still able to sexually function at all) just to get some kind of arousal. Even then it wasn't smooth sailing as my erections were poor (50-60% pre-fin at best) and my dick felt almost rubbery, like it was limp on the outside and hard on the inside at the same time. My legs, genital area, and bottom of my feet felt permanently anesthetized from waking to sleep to the point where it literally felt like I had no dick unless I focused on it with extreme concentration and even then could barely sense or feel where it was attached to my body. It was as if it had disappeared entirely and I’d become an action-man figurine with nothing down below.

My anxiety, depression, lethargy, low motivation, mental and emotional instability became exponentially heightened and uncontrollable. As the weeks rolled on, I became an absolute shell of myself, barely able to function from day to day. I became consumed by negative emotions and thinking constantly and literally could not stop thinking about the problems I was facing, how bad it all was, how unlucky I was, whether I should get off or not the fin, whether I'd be able to embrace going bald again, and just how defeated and shocked I felt that this was happening to me. All of these various thought patterns played like an endless tape, tormenting me constantly as I fell into complete identification with all of them as if unable to stop or control my mind. And as someone who has meditated daily for years before this and learned to be a witness of my thoughts and emotions, it was crazy to see this capacity in me become completely eroded as if it weren't possible to do at all. Instead, it was like I became possessed by my negative thinking and emotions and completely lost the ability to generate more optimistic thoughts or moods or the objectivity to see beyond the thoughts and more critically assess my life situation and what choices I should be making. In rapid speed, I metamorphosed into this completely anxious, depressive, neurotic person without even seeing it happening to me. I was too close to it. I was it, constantly clouded in perspectives of negativity and doom due to the hormonal and chemical imbalances.

All equilibrium and balance in my life broke apart - all of my positive habits, sleep routine, work life, daily responsibilities fell to the wayside. My sleep became disrupted and I awoke every night in the early morning for some reason. This gradually led me to start binge-watching comedy TV shows in a haze until 2-3am to help myself eventually just passed out in front of the TV with tiredness as it was easier to sleep this way - an obviously terrible habit but I could see why I was doing it because at least it brought me some comfort and relief from everything. I would then sleep in late and lethargically begin living out my day. Throughout all of this, I started getting brain fog that got progressively worse and eventually became so bad a couple of months in that I remember one day literally being unable to string two coherent thoughts together as I sat down at my desk to do work.

My online business obviously suffered too. Not being able to properly rise up to my work tasks and responsibilities - such as creating new content for my business pages or making efforts to land new clients - my income stream began dropping off to next to nothing. Despite running this same business profitably and successfully for over 3 years, I found myself dipping into thousands of dollars of my savings just to make my essential life payments and survive. My bleeding financial situation added a whole other layer of ridiculous stress to the situation.

My relationships too to my current clients, friends, family etc. all gradually became effected in some way by my incapacity to show up and function as my regular self (thankfully mostly only in small ways). Even still, those closest to me noticed my rapid decline and the more they learned what was going on, the more concerned they became (especially my parents). I was co-renting an apartment with my brother at the time (long story situation linked to COVID) and our relationship became greatly strained as I sucked and drained the life out of him everyday as he witnessed me first had going through all of this. We have always been such incredible brothers and friends and yet we started getting into lengthy voice-raised arguments and then he started disappearing from the house often, unable to emotionally cope with being around me and my negativity in addition to going through his own life challenges. As I work from home and was also staying home virtually all of the time not seeing anyone (due to the state I was in), his leaving the alone often left me feeling isolated, bitter and resentful - even though, I seriously cannot blame him at all as I was truly not a fun or easy vibe to be around at the time by any means.

For some reason that now escapes any sanity (I guess I was just hoping for a miracle the further everything progressed), I kept taking the drug at 0.25mg every 3 days as this all unfolded, bit by bit over this 3 month period until I finally accepted that nothing was going to change, that I was in a seriously bad way, that I was clearly poisoning my body no matter how much my hair was improving, and that a life without hair was what I willing to now accept and face.

Quitting Fin + Beginning My Road To Recovery - November 2022 - Feb 2023

So finally, I hit rock bottom and surrendered. It was a Saturday morning, around just under 4 months after I had taken my first dose. I needed help and so I found myself visiting my parents house to confess what was truly going on with me. They already knew something was up, but not the extent of it. As a generally positive, successful, optimistic, driven 27 year old man, business owner, and someone who has been independently living and making my own way for 5+ years, my parents were very concerned to see me show up in such bad shape and with a lot of my life in tatters.

And so in the aftermath of me filling them in, they very generously told me they would lend me a little money to help me get back on my feet over the next couple of months (something I tried to refuse but they absolutely insisted I took it and the truth it was I needed it and it was life-saving gesture). They also said they would support me in my recovery in whatever way that was needed. I welled up with tears of gratitude, hugged them, and vowed to never to take finasteride again. My entire life - from my mind, body, emotions, sexuality and spirit to my financial situation, habits, relationships, and business - felt like it had been sucked down a black hole in such a short time, but at least I wasn't going to go down any deeper. With no more finasteride in my system, I could finally begin the process of rebuilding my life. It felt like a dark spot to be in with quite a climb ahead of me to get back to my old life and self. But as I lay in the bed in my parents guest room that day, still shocked and steeped in my symptoms, I also felt deeply relieved that taking finasteride had come to an end.

In the immediate aftermath of quitting, I noticed some of my symptoms ironing out. Instead of feeling physically pummeled every few days I'd take a pill, I experienced increasing and stabilizing energy. Over the next few weeks following this, I definitely felt my neurological symptoms getting better. My heavy brain fog, negative thinking, low motivation and extreme emotions all started to lift, bit by bit. I could suddenly gain some separation from my thoughts and an awareness of my life situation again in a more objective way (rather than being sucked and consumed by everything that was happening). And as more time and distance from the last pill passed, I began to feel more able to process what had happened to me. I was definitely emotionally traumatized and shocked by everything, and so I felt sad, flat and depressed a lot of the time. However, I also noticed a subtle difference in these thoughts and emotions. They were more normal and not so extreme and blown out of proportion like when I was on finasteride. It felt like they were now only partly due to the lingering neurological and emotional side effects and now partly due to the genuine turmoil and anguish I felt due to the challenging upward climb I faced ahead of me to get my life back on track. Nonetheless, I started chipping away at it all to get my life back on track.

Within the first 1-2 months post quitting, I built up the habits of eating healthily again, lifting 4-5 times per week at the gym, quitting porn and regular fapping, and getting back into my business work. Despite some very shaky and anxious financial times, I eventually landing about 5 new clients and so things financially started to even out which was such a relief (although at the time of writing this in March 2023, I still don't feel completely out of the waters financially yet but it's far better than where I was at my rock-bottom point). Building these habits and results again was both rewarding and incredibly hard. I still felt mentally, emotionally and sexually impaired everyday, often strongly. I still felt traumatized, shocked and just depressed quite a bit. Yet I also felt hardened and mentally strong in a way I'd never felt before. I was overall glad to be off the finasteride and willing to face the consequences of my own past decisions and to get myself and my life back again. So I just got on with it all as best I could, knuckling down and pushing through from one moment at a time. I wasn't going to be a victim thinker here and would do what it took to get my life back. This mindset definitely led to some lighter and more positive moments, which started to filtering in here and there throughout my week, albeit sporadically. Another great win around this time was that I also rekindled a relationship with a great girl whom I'd previously dated for a short while the year before (pre-fin), and we decided to start dating again. She was an amazing source of support, joy and connection that helped me find greater balance while I was rebuilding the other areas of my life.

But even going into the 2-3 mark post-quitting, I still had some shocking symptoms I was living with week after week that had hardly budged at all. Chiefly, these were sexual but also emotional, neurological and physical too. To start with, I had literally (and I mean literally) zero libido for weeks and months post quitting. I felt asexual and could easily go weeks without a single sexual thought even though I was well and truly off the finasteride by this point. I'd walk past hot girls on the street or see them on movies and wanted to feel attracted and turned on by them, but I just couldn't. My body just wouldn't generate the turned on feeling. I'd also go over to my girlfriend's house and would be literally moments away from the opportunity to have sex with her and I felt no strong sexual desire or arousal. I was drawing a complete blank, nothing there. It was like the masculine side of the masculine-feminine polarity that creates sexual chemistry and attraction was missing from my experience. I eventually had to have a big chat with my girlfriend where I told her in greater depth what I was going through and why I might seems like I'm acting strange, not initiating things sexually or just being more flirty and fun like my usual self, and why I might struggle to have sex or be sexual with her properly for a while. I remember the night of this talk I was in a downswing and felt so helpless and frustrated as a 27 year old man at the peak of my virility and vitality sitting opposite a stunning girl who was eager to have sex with me right then and there, and literally not being able to do anything about it. But as shitty as this was, I manned up and accepted this as the consequence of my own choices, nobody else's. Luckily, again to my surprise, she was supportive, understanding and willing to be patient with me as I healed.

My poor erections also persisted basically as much as when I was on fin. I did started getting morning wood again a few weeks after quitting (maybe once or twice a week), but it was at a measly 50-60% strength. At any other point I tried to induce an erection, I just couldn't get harder than 60-70% maximum of what I was pre-fin. I also still felt numb in my legs, soles of my feet, and whole genital area. This was a constant, everyday, moment by moment, unending numbness and sense of disconnection between my dick and brain - unrelenting for months on end. This side effect was the most disconcerting to live with as its in your face all the time from the moment you wake up. It's just strange and quite awful to be constantly so numb down there. I felt emasculated by this. I also felt increasingly concerned that my fundamental masculinity, sexuality, strength, virility, drive etc. wasn't kicking in again in any significant way despite a couple of months passing without touching finasteride. I also felt like my emotional experience was dulled and my overall connection to life simply lacking excitement, passion and vibrancy. Even as I started building up my life again and experiencing a few wins, I felt like my capacity for experiencing happier emotions was just dimmed. Despite meditating again more often, I still felt like a still had a racier mind and was somehow trapped in a kind of reality bubble that separated me from others and life in general, as opposed to truly being able engage with them and able to be fully present with life. This last one was more subtle but still prevalent. In downswing moments, when all of these various symptoms flared up, it often felt like simple things became a struggle (such a simply talking to someone) and I had to exert my willpower a lot just to hold it together, ignore my symptoms, stay present in the moment and keep ploughing forward. All of this wasn't like the last time I had quit fin 5 years ago at all where things just bounced back basically to normal within a couple of weeks. I started realizing something deeper was amiss.

At this point, I feel it is proper to mention the state of my hair after post-fin. Within 2 weeks or less of quitting, my hair noticeably thinned out to the point where my hair loss became somewhat noticeable again (although not shockingly so). To my delighted surprise, my hair has remained this way 4 months later and I'd say that I have kept a little of my gains from finasteride. My hair definitely looks a little bit thicker than it was before I started fin the second time, but the main thing I've noticed since quitting is that the rate I was losing hairs each day has dramatically decreased. Before taking fin, I could simply run my hand through my hair and many hairs would come out in my hand, whereas now I only notice one or two. The same for when I brush my hair. I know it is still early days and that some guys report continued hair loss progression from around the 6 month mark onward, but I thought this was worth mentioning for those wondering what happened to me once I hopped off fin. I will keep updating my hair situation for those interested as time goes on too.

So am I confident and happy with my hair right now? I mean not greatly. Coming out of the shower in certain lighting makes it look thin af. When the wind blows up my hair on the street, I can feel cold air on the skin of the receded corners. But I am a changed man now. I know what I have survived. I feel more deeply connected to my inner worth, strength and intrinsic confidence and value than ever before. So much so that while appearance still obviously matter to a degree to us all, my core self has shifted. Honestly if and when my hair goes now, it goes. So be it. If any extremely safe and natural ways are invented in the future for keeping hair, sure I can see myself considering it depending on how I'm doing then. But I will never touch a pharmaceutical drug again for cosmetic reasons. Ever. I will never take anything that fucks with hormones or the body in any way that skews its natural functioning and balance for cosmetic reasons. I'm now even hesitant to take any pharmaceuticals unnecessarily for my health in general, from paracetamol to antibiotics unless I am truly convinced it is necessary and my essential and only recourse for whatever health issue I might encounter in the future. I am absolutely committed to living an extremely clean and holistically healthy life in all ways. And I am also willing to do the inner work to heal any future emotional insecurities and wounds that may arise in me so I can be a truly inwardly confident, worthy, integrated and inspiring person and man in the world. So anyway, that's my current situation and mindset regarding my hair after everything. I feel significantly, genuinely, and deeply free of one of my deepest fears and insecurities. I may not be fully free of It, but it's been a majorly liberating and life-changing shift regarding my attitude to my hair loss and that's a huge gift from coming from this whole experience that I am grateful for.

Finding And Beginning The TMO Protocol + Sharing My Story - Feb 2023 - March 2023

And so anyway, coming back to my story, as I crossed around the 2 month post-quitting mark, I started becoming more emotionally reactive to my lack of true recovery. I started looking up why things were hardly returning to normal (other than the mental sides which were lifting bit by bit, but were still far from normal as well). Initially I researched things on Reddit and quickly discovered a whole bunch of posts about Post Finasteride Syndrome. I also stumbled across people vouching for someone called CDnuts and his method to heal from PFS along with links to the Total Male Optimization website. I looked it up briefly but couldn't see much on PFS there at the time and thought it was more of a general personal development site. I also discovered Propecia Help and quickly found many countless terrifying, negative, doom and gloom scenarios and perspectives about PFS. I instantly intuitively knew it was largely a toxic place full of limiting beliefs and disempowerment and stopped looking at it basically at all. I since have seen many others realize the same. As I said at the start, I know the power our mindset has in shaping our realities and I believe that all of our bodies have a natural intelligence and ability to self-heal given enough time and the right holistic methods and approach. And so even though I was struggling badly still, this was already my inner truth and conviction and so I implicitly knew eventually I would get to the bottom of what was happening to me, heal myself and thrive again.

So after lucking out for a couple of weeks on immediate answers or recovery solutions, I found myself one day thinking back to whoever this Cdnuts character was from the previous posts I stumbled on weeks earlier. One day I did some google searching and I stumbled across his post called 'I'm cured' on the PH website. I loved his no-nonsense, supportive and empowered attitude and started resonating with his approach to healing. I screenshotted his various tips and inspiring bits of advice and then found myself over at the TMO website, researching everything I needed to understand the foundational habits and changes I would need to make to fully heal form PFS.

At the time, I was still eating processed food and gluten (takeaway chicken parmigiana and fries was my go-to cheat meal a couple times a week both for emotional comfort reasons and also for the protein/carb bulk for the gym). I was also drinking 2 oat milk coffees daily which would give me a nice kick (I'd become totally addicted to this daily caffeine rush) but also wire me up and cause IBS symptoms. I was also regularly eating (sometimes guzzling down) sugary lollies, with things like skittles being my favorite. I already knew all of this was really bad for me but loved (but had come craved and needed) the brief moment of relief and pleasure these things gave me during my toughest moments (especially when I was still on fin). Yet as soon as I read that they basically all had to go as part of the nutritional changes for the protocol, I quit them all cold-turkey. Normally, I tend to believe that tapering into new habits and building them up slowly is the wiser and more sustainable approach, but in this case I just went all out.

Thus, making the instant switch to zero caffeine and a pure, clean, nutritious, keto diet + carb-backloading was tough. The cravings for sugar, coffee and greasy food came on strong at certain points during the first few weeks, but I simply white-knuckled it and pushed through. I now felt like I had a positive plan and vision for my recovery and was willing to do what it took. Luckily, I was also eating somewhat nutritiously already, so I certainly had some momentum there to help with this. I was also already a regularly lifting at the gym, so it was easy to continue this part of the protocol. I also immediately cut out all porn and masturbation and went on a 30 day NoFap streak (which was broken by doing sexual stuff with my girlfriend, another big win that came in). During the NoFap period, I basically went 3-4 weeks straight without a single sexual thought or strong sexual impulse, but I could tell it was having other healing and recovery benefits. Chiefly, I felt my brain's wiring to look at porn and the chemical addiction to orgasming flaring up and then evening out in waves. From my past NoFap streaks in the years earlier, I'd come to know that this was a really great sign and means your brain is resetting itself to baseline. During these flare ups, and coupled with the other things I'd quit cold turkey, along with the daily challenges and symptoms I was still facing, there were a quite a few days where I felt intensely emotional and even extremely challenged, depressed, unconfident and anxious. But again, I just held it all together, focused on my vision and pushed through. There were also days where things also felt more bearable and positive, which encouraged me to keep going. I also ordered $300 - $400 worth of supplements and daily vitamins as per the protocol. After researching everything, I settled for the following rotations for now:

• Daily Supplements: Vitamin D 5000ui, Vitamin B Complex, Chlorella, Spirulina, Magnesium, Pine Pollen Powder (3 tablespoons spread out)

• Herb Rotation: Tribiulis Terrestris, Shilajit, Mucuna, Tongkat Ali, Horny Goat Weed, Maca, Ashwagandha
○ I plan to keep adding more to my stack as my financial situation allows, with the next addition going to be He Show Wu

• Temporary Supplements I used (outside of the protocol): Calcium D-Glucarate (2000mg), NAD+ Nicotinamide Riboside (300mg), Probiotics
○ I don't recommend doing this as it was a deviation from the protocol, but I found these mentioned in a recovery video called 'Fixing Post Finasteride Syndrome' from a YouTuber called VigorousSteve and wanted to try them out for their supposed benefits. I only ran each of these for a 2-week course just to help my body flush out/reset as best I could and I have now permanently dropped them

As soon as I hopped on the supplements, I felt a better within myself, mostly just in my general health and well-being. I was likely depleted in things like Vitamin D etc. so I think my body was just getting a good boost from what I was taking. Over the first 4 weeks I was on the supplements, I noticed a marginal increase in libido or erection quality but no significant return to being 'me' before the whole finasteride fiasco. Yet in combination with everything else I was doing (no caffeine, gym, eating super clean, supplements, seeing my gf, landing business clients, and the NoFap streak), I felt things were picking up, getting more positive and moving in the direction of healing and recovery (however slowly this might be).

Towards the 25+ day mark of my NoFap streak, I started waking up with stronger morning wood a few times, which was nice even though the erection quality and sensitivity was still greatly diminished when this happened. At the same time, I also started feeling what I have come to know (through NoFap streak in the past) what I call 'NoFap high' energy and benefits kick in. It feels like an inner glow of togetherness, presence, groundedness, inner peace, and confidence that feels very clean and you start radiating and feeling this energy wherever you go (feel free to research more about the experiences and benefits of NoFap/sexual transmutation etc. if you're interested in such things). The only difference with this time was the NoFap energy still felt severely blunted from the intensity I normally experience on a streak. In fact, all of life still felt and feels quite muted as if I still can't feel emotions richly or experience true passion or excitement or sexual pleasure like I could before. My experiences feel as if they are removed or blanketed by a layer that separates me from the normal intensity and rush of how life used to be, but I of course realize that this is all related to PFS symptoms and the psychological and emotional trauma and effects I'm still healing from in all of this. But nonetheless, I could sense something positive with the 30 day NoFap streak and compounding positive habits, and this was a nice and needed win. In this time, I felt I was on an upward swing and that life was much more bearable and even getting good again, all things considered.

You might be wondering why I haven't mentioned the juice feast or water fast yet. As the TMO protocol states, one of these is meant to be done as the number one first step to detoxify the body and facilitate the greatest chance for healing. But due to various reasons and life circumstances, I had to delay it until 1 month in from when I officially began protocol. Nonetheless, I am currently on day 5 of my 7 day Juice Feast presently and feeling surprisingly energetic, light in my body and good. The first two days of the cleanse were a little challenging and I wasn't sure what to expect, but have been pleasantly surprised. I have had some detoxing symptoms so far but intuitively feel my body is just getting into it and so I am tossing up whether to extend it to 14 days or more - I'll decide on day 7 this week.

Other positive things to report so far is that in the last few days or so I managed to have sex with my girlfriend for the first time since being off finasteride. The first time was with 5mg Cialis which helped me feel a bit more of what I can only call a pseudo-strong erection (as it's like some part of my outer penis just don't get hard no matter what). But nonetheless, it was certainly harder than normal and the sex was fairly good. Due to the overall numbness down there, I was able to last longer than usual and my orgasm was felt pretty good. The second time, I had sex was without any Cialis and I felt about an 75-80% erection which was actually a pretty big win now that I think about it, so there's that. However, I will still say that to this day that everything generally still feels numb, asexual and muted in my experience, so my recovery journey is going to take more time as expected. I still haven't begun with locking in a great sleep routine or getting sleep supplements, cold showering, prohormones (waiting until 3 month mark on the protocol), HIIT training (due to a persistent knee injury), using a bathmate (financial reasons), getting consistent daily sunlight, or incorporating the breathing exercises etc. but plan to work these in pronto to my life. I am absolutely committed to this, I simply need a bit more time to anchor all the habits and lifestyle changes in and improve my financial situation too to buy further things I need.

One final, very spiritual and woo-woo sounding thing I experienced that is worth sharing in my recovery journey so far was an energy healing session I did. Ever since my spiritual awakening, I can feel where there are energetic blockages in my body. I have been to two energy healing sessions in the years prior and experienced some amazing releases of trapped energy and emotion on this deeper, often unconscious layer of our being. I've also experienced such healings and releases countless times in meditation, breathwork sessions, psychedelic experiences and just general mystical experiences I've had across the years. Suffice to say, I could feel there was massive lingering energetic blocks and traumas from the finasteride experience that were in my body, especially in the naval/stomach area which is connected to the solar plexus chakra. I knew I would like have to face and clear this energy over several uncomfortable hours in intense breathwork and meditation sessions. I'd began attempting a couple of these meditation sessions in the months prior, but it felt like such a thick wall of dark pain energy, that I just couldn't bring myself to properly go into it and face it, let alone clear it.

But this week, I finally felt ready to more deeply go into and clear this stuck energy and emotional blocks. I sat with what felt like a dense inner pain and block for maybe 2 hours straight in meditation and came into contact with all these traumatized unconscious parts of my psyche that literally kept saying things to me on repeat like 'I've been poisoned', 'violated', 'I'm shocked', 'I can't believe this happened to me'. It was all the trauma of the finasteride experience coming up to the surface, which when this happens is ultimately highly liberating and healing at the conscious level of our lives (as intense as it can initially be at the time it is all coming up) as releasing these things from this deeper level than cascades and impacts all the others levels of our being, and vice versa, because everything is holistically interconnected psychologically, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

And so in this expanded, deeply connected, meditative state, I sent love to each of these shocked and traumatized parts of me and felt energy purging from my solar plexus, with each purge making me lighter, integrated and healed in a profound way. I also got an intuitive mystical vision that a part of my soul's energy - the part of me that kept saying it felt poisoned by the finasteride - had fragmented from my body and was suspended in a state of shock and disconnected from the rest of me. I located this part of me within my expanded awareness and called it back in, telling my body and this part of me how sorry I was for causing this and that this happened and yet also simultaneously forgiving myself for letting my egoic vanity take hold of me. It was a pretty beautiful moment when I felt this part of me come back into my body and feel safe, nurtured, loved and at peace as part of the whole of my energy again. I know how woo-woo this all sounds but frankly I don't really care anymore because I know how real these energies and dimensions are once you spiritually open up to and experience these possibilities. I've been living with such spiritual/mystical experiences now for 5+ years now and so for me, as wonderful as this was, it also felt quite minor as healing experience at the same time, as even afterwards I still felt lots more energy and emotion to process to fully heal and integrate it - which I will again do, bit by bit, along with everything else in the protocol in the future.

So that's it for now - my ridiculously long first post has come to an end. I hope you enjoyed my in-depth story and experience which is again simply my honest truth. I plan to keep going with these detailed posts across my entire recovery journey, so that in the end when I finally heal triumphant from this PFS experience, others will too know what it takes, know that it is possible and feel inspired to heal too. This has also been really therapeutic for me just writing and expressing this all out in such detail, so I'm so glad I did it. If I can help impact just one person going through the darkness of PFS at any point in the future, it's worth it to me. Anyway, I hope this helps and I'll see you in my next post, whenever that next is.

My Blood Work - 1 month before taking Finasteride + 11 weeks after stopping Finasteride

For anyone also interested, here is my blood work. I know from others posts that PFS can often still be present even if all blood work comes back as normal - and I am such a person with this is arguably the case as seen below. What's odd is that my DHT serum levels are a bit higher than pre-fin. My estrogen levels are a bit higher too but these could already be much lower given the supplements I've been taking, but I'm not sure. I will get future blood tests in the coming months to monitor things.

PRE-FIN ----> POST-FIN

Testosterone 23.5 nmol/L ----> 24.5 nmol/L
Free Testosterone 391 pmol/L ----> 478 pmol/L
Oestradiol (sensitive) LCMS 71 pmol/L ----> 79 pmol/L
DHT 1.51 nmol/L ----> 1.56 nmol/L
Prolactin 82 mIU/L ----> 88 mIU/L
Progesterone 1.9 nmol/L ----> 2.2 nmol/L
FSH 3 IU/L ----> 3 IU/L
LH 3 IU/L ----> 3 IU/L
SHBG 51nmol/L ----> 41 nmol/L

Hey everyone,

Thought I'd bring a little positivity to the forum with an update on my progress since last posting. I will do another longer, detailed, full story post/update at some point in the future if people are wanting this too and when more things have happened. We'll see.

Current Updates - March 2023

- I finished my 7 day juice feast, it went really well and it definitely feels like my gut health is better and overall health improved after it. Combined with cutting out coffee and also limiting foods I have reactions too (e.g. vegan protein powder or glutenous/processed foods), my IBS symptoms have basically disappeared and I feel way better in my mind/body in general.

- I am able to have regular sex with my girlfriend now - my libido is still badly shot, but my erections are consistently about 5-10% harder now at 75-80%. As long as I don't push it by having sex too often and only when I feel ready for it/physically capable and in the mood enough to do it (about once to twice a week max), it seems to be encouraging my healing both physically and psychologically/emotionally. Things with my girlfriend are going really well, especially with this issue, and she continues to be understanding and work with me around this (despite her being a very sexual person)

- I have been able to land multiple new clients for my business - if you read my full story, you will know that my finasteride symptoms were so bad it basically ran my business/financial situation temporarily into the ground as I was not able to properly function to run my business for several months. But after lots of tenacity and persistence, my business is getting back on track and the immense financial stress I was in has lifted for now. I feel deeply relieved about this - almost like I can breathe again lol Got to keep going though as there's lots more to be done here.

- I celebrated my 28th birthday over the weekend where I got several compliments saying that I looked better than ever, that my skin was glowing etc. I put it down to eating so cleanly and nutritiously, sleeping a bit better, rotating the herbs, hitting the gym, living an engaged/purpose driven lifestyle. This was crazy to me as well because I still feel no where near my full pre-fin self, which goes to show the sheer positive power of these habits and way of life. When done with full health, I can only imagine how incredible life could be. I can't wait for this.

- I have been especially on point with my diet, eating almost entirely organic, whole foods (nothing processed 95% of the time) with the exception of a slice of birthday cake I had (which I was massively pressured into having by everyone at the birthday celebrations and I caved in lol goddamn it). This had sugar/gluten in it but I didn't notice anything much after having it. I also had one oat milk coffee which was also fine but I decided after it to not re-introduce caffeine into the mix. Also no alcohol (I'm not even slightly tempted to drink to be honest). Other than that I am on track.

- I also got back on track with the gym after my juice feast in which I lost 5kg / 11lbs in 1 week. Quite a lot. My BMR is insane and I am a crazy ectomorph type build and historically have struggled to put on size/muscle. Having said that, I am eating 3000-3500 calories per day (going for a lean bulk with this) and have gained about 3kg / 6lbs back in just under 2 weeks. I plan to get into the best and most muscular shape of my life this year, so we will see how that goes. I am pounding down food on the daily to make this happen.


Other Notes + Future Plans

- After experimenting with carb backloading for one week, I found it really just doesn't resonate with me. It's goes against my natural inclination to eat intuitively not to mention makes consuming 3000+ calories of healthy, organic wholefood daily even more of a challenge. I like to tune into my body at any time in the day and eat whatever kinds of food it is needing - sometimes this is paleo, other times this can include complex carbs. Having the freedom to do both works much better for me and keeps me looking the great physically (lean, ripped etc.). I almost always hit the perfect macros I need by the end of the day when I'm calculating my calories too, so it's a win-win-win. Carb backloading felt cumbersome and forced compared to this. In the TMO website it mentions how carb backloading is optional, so I wonder if CD or others think it is okay that I am doing without this particular part of the protocol.

- I've just ordered my first bottle of Ultra Hard by Iconic formulations. I did lots of research on the forum into the various pro-hormones out there. I almost went with AndroHard by Musclegelz but after reading recent reports about it's weakened new ingredient formula (especially xxaleksi's) I decided to go straight for the UH. This will take about 3-4 weeks to get shipped to me as I live in Australia before I can then begin my first run (which syncs up well with about 3ish months on the TMO protocol). My hair loss is also still staying steady and has not progressed much now 4+ months off fin, so it will be interesting to see if introducing a DHT based prohormone will change this and revert me to more aggressive thinning/hair loss like before. I hope not, but what can you do. We'll have to see.

- Overall, although life is definitely improving and I feel like I've maybe gained about a 5%-10% recovery to baseline (at least on a good day), I still feel like 50-60% my pre-fin self on the whole. I still feel very hampered physically / sexually especially with my erections and libido. I also still feel very emotionally numb and disconnected from the fullness of life, lacking drive, pleasure, passion, true alpha male confidence, humor, charm, wittiness, peace, joy etc. But I also feel super positive about everything in general. I am absolutely convinced I am healing and on the upper in life. I can't wait get my business/creative expression even more back on track over the next few weeks, and to continue with all my positive habits on my road to a full recovery. I am staying committed to the protocol and I am going to keep adding in new elements shortly, the next ones being the first prohormone run, HIIT sessions (still monitoring my knee-injury), and bathmate.

I will do another update fairly soon. Keep going everyone. Keep absolutely backing yourself in life. I'm talking way beyond merely recovering from PFS, that's already a given. I'm talking about what's beyond that: leading a life of higher purpose, creating something meaningful in the world, expanding into your most exceptional self and helping others. To be a beacon of light in the world that demonstrates to others in your own unique way what makes life truly worth living. I am doing this too along side you all.

3 Months On TMO Protocol + Recovery Update - April 2023

Since the last time I posted, I've continued to follow about 80% of the TMO protocol. I've been rotating the herbs daily, working out regularly, and eating super clean (paleo + complex carbs for workout gains). I put these 3 pillars as critical to any successful recovery - and as easy as they sound, to actually do them with integrity and discipline is a different story. But gratefully and honestly, I can say I was sticking to these 100%.

I however did not jibe well with carb backloading - it proved to be a hindrance and burden to my gym gains and lifestyle, so I consciously dropped this from the regimen a while ago. I also have yet to implement a regular meditation practice / breathing exercises (due to PFS symptoms I will discuss), cold showers (purely lack of discipline here), or the bathmate (financial/personal reasons here). The rest I have followed.

So doing the TMO protocol 80+% for about 3months straight definitely put me in a better mental/physical state. It's hard to say but I think I probably gained about 5-10% of the 'normal me' back and went from say 50% to 60% recovered. I feel more positive, slightly more driven, slightly harder erections. The improvements for the most part seem minor, but happening nonetheless.

My external life has also kept improving, clients are coming into my business, my girlfriend and I are doing well (we just came back from a camping trip together), my living situation with my brother has picked up quite a bit, and my outlook in general has felt more positive and expansive. I've been tapping back into making plans and taking steps towards realizing my higher life goals and purpose again - which feels great as my life has been completely consumed by simply surviving/making it through this finasteride/PFS hell for the past 10 months.

However, even with these wins, I still suffer from: low/terrible libido, poor 60% erections, dick/leg/feet numbness, constant racing/anxious/restless mind, blunt emotions, inability to truly focus or be present, blocked energetically, disconnection or dissatisfied from life in the strangest yet prevalent way. I also have week-by-week downswings and upswings which are hard to predict. Overall, I still feel in the thick of this all.

I've only just realized how difficult it is to live with the mental/emotional PFS side effects. Not being able to truly experience emotions be they high or low is just constantly disconcerting and shit. The beauty of life is just missing for me - movies just don't evoke emotions, songs don't sound as good, even my relationships in general just feel just weaker in their sense of impact, importance and connection to me. For example with my new girlfriend, normally you go through that phase of a sexual honeymoon period and strong feels of having a crush on them - but this has been virtually nada for me.

Same too with my racing mind. I constantly feel like my mind is spinning and doesn't' want to stop - like I'm in a constant state of unrest or a feeling of 'something is not quite right' that is impossible to satisfy. It's like I go completely unconscious and on an autopilot mode, just going from one moment to the next to the next without ever being able to truly pause, stop to meditate, or simply enjoy the moment.

This sounds like an excuse to not be doing a regular meditation practice - I get that - but it really does feel like my mind/body/consciousness can get stuck in this loop of a constantly racing mind, feelings of unrest, lack of any presence or ability focus - I just spin and spin on autopilot from one moment to the next without being able to stop it as, if I'm just trying to get through to a place where I will finally feel at peace and able to be 'just me' again - but that feeling never comes.

And this is the problem - knowing the biochemistry behind it, my brain literally feels like its lacking the chemicals/hormones etc. it needs to generate feelings of peace, stillness, connection contentment etc. The same goes with strong and full emotions, and of course all the sexual stuff which is obvious too.

Anyway, I know this update sounds bit negative and I hate that. I'm a fundamentally positive person and still know I will heal from PFS and thrive again. But I'm just being honest - as you guys know, PFS is real and is a true hell. This is the raw experience of what I'm going through; it's definitely not all sunshine and rainbows, even on the protocol (nor was it ever expected to be). I know I will come back with a more positive update soon, I can feel it. Just got to keep grinding. More time is needed. My next course of action is to begin my first Ultra Hard Prohormone Run within the next week - so stay tuned for this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strato

3 Months On TMO Protocol + Recovery Update - April 2023

Since the last time I posted, I've continued to follow about 80% of the TMO protocol. I've been rotating the herbs daily, working out regularly, and eating super clean (paleo + complex carbs for workout gains). I put these 3 pillars as critical to any successful recovery - and as easy as they sound, to actually do them with integrity and discipline is a different story. But gratefully and honestly, I can say I was sticking to these 100%.

I however did not jibe well with carb backloading - it proved to be a hindrance and burden to my gym gains and lifestyle, so I consciously dropped this from the regimen a while ago. I also have yet to implement a regular meditation practice / breathing exercises (due to PFS symptoms I will discuss), cold showers (purely lack of discipline here), or the bathmate (financial/personal reasons here). The rest I have followed.

So doing the TMO protocol 80+% for about 3months straight definitely put me in a better mental/physical state. It's hard to say but I think I probably gained about 5-10% of the 'normal me' back and went from say 50% to 60% recovered. I feel more positive, slightly more driven, slightly harder erections. The improvements for the most part seem minor, but happening nonetheless.

My external life has also kept improving, clients are coming into my business, my girlfriend and I are doing well (we just came back from a camping trip together), my living situation with my brother has picked up quite a bit, and my outlook in general has felt more positive and expansive. I've been tapping back into making plans and taking steps towards realizing my higher life goals and purpose again - which feels great as my life has been completely consumed by simply surviving/making it through this finasteride/PFS hell for the past 10 months.

However, even with these wins, I still suffer from: low/terrible libido, poor 60% erections, dick/leg/feet numbness, constant racing/anxious/restless mind, blunt emotions, inability to truly focus or be present, blocked energetically, disconnection or dissatisfied from life in the strangest yet prevalent way. I also have week-by-week downswings and upswings which are hard to predict. Overall, I still feel in the thick of this all.

I've only just realized how difficult it is to live with the mental/emotional PFS side effects. Not being able to truly experience emotions be they high or low is just constantly disconcerting and shit. The beauty of life is just missing for me - movies just don't evoke emotions, songs don't sound as good, even my relationships in general just feel just weaker in their sense of impact, importance and connection to me. For example with my new girlfriend, normally you go through that phase of a sexual honeymoon period and strong feels of having a crush on them - but this has been virtually nada for me.

Same too with my racing mind. I constantly feel like my mind is spinning and doesn't' want to stop - like I'm in a constant state of unrest or a feeling of 'something is not quite right' that is impossible to satisfy. It's like I go completely unconscious and on an autopilot mode, just going from one moment to the next to the next without ever being able to truly pause, stop to meditate, or simply enjoy the moment.

This sounds like an excuse to not be doing a regular meditation practice - I get that - but it really does feel like my mind/body/consciousness can get stuck in this loop of a constantly racing mind, feelings of unrest, lack of any presence or ability focus - I just spin and spin on autopilot from one moment to the next without being able to stop it as, if I'm just trying to get through to a place where I will finally feel at peace and able to be 'just me' again - but that feeling never comes.

And this is the problem - knowing the biochemistry behind it, my brain literally feels like its lacking the chemicals/hormones etc. it needs to generate feelings of peace, stillness, connection contentment etc. The same goes with strong and full emotions, and of course all the sexual stuff which is obvious too.

Anyway, I know this update sounds bit negative and I hate that. I'm a fundamentally positive person and still know I will heal from PFS and thrive again. But I'm just being honest - as you guys know, PFS is real and is a true hell. This is the raw experience of what I'm going through; it's definitely not all sunshine and rainbows, even on the protocol (nor was it ever expected to be). I know I will come back with a more positive update soon, I can feel it. Just got to keep grinding. More time is needed. My next course of action is to begin my first Ultra Hard Prohormone Run within the next week - so stay tuned for this.

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All your posts are a little on the long side which I think puts people off a full read.
However you last paragraph reads well. It’s the positivity and belief which are key.
All the best.

First Ultra Hard Cycle - 4 Weeks In Update - May 2023

Hi all, I am 4 weeks today into my first UltraHard cycle at 3 pumps daily. It has literally been a God send. My mental sides lifted from what felt like 60 to 80% within 2 hours of the first application and permanently stuck since then. It was like night and day, suddenly I felt myself smiling with absolute joy and relief as I realized "there 'I' am again". The old me came significantly back just like that and it was like the whole world felt right again. Priceless moment (and still only just the beginning of the full me returning).

Since that moment, feelings of peace and contentment have become a regular part of my life again. I have been able to just get on living without being constantly consumed by PFS symptoms. People have been noticing my raising energy and positive moods, several times telling me that I've been a joy to be around of late and that they love seeing me happy. It's crazy too cause I can tell my emotions are still quite blunted and I'm not my full self yet (say 70-75% recovered) so I can only imagine how good life will be when this lifts even further over the next cycle or two + the continuing of the protocol.

I have also felt much more ready, willing and able to tackle new projects and goals in my business and personal life. It's like after everything I've been through, regular life seems somewhat easier and there's a deep gratitude that I can just function and do simply day-to-day things. This is a mindset shift you simply can't buy and a blessing from this while finasteride fiasco.

Physically things have improved maybe from 60-65% recovery in terms of libido and erection quality etc. but as many guys have said, the physical symptoms are usually resolved towards the latter stages of recovery. Still, I can have decent sex and get a decent erection (at 70-75% pre-fin), so all thing considered I can live like this until further physical recovery happens.

I still have a long way to go and likely a few cycles left + the protocol + more time to fully recover, but even after this cycle, it's my strong opinion that the prohormones are an absolutely integral and crucial part of recovery. Without this current cycle, I'd likely be snail pacing it towards my recovery and still be battling through crazy sides daily barely able to function (which I was as little as 4 weeks ago). So I absolutely recommend them, hop on them ASAP if it feels right for you.

On that note he, the sides from the prohormones have been very minor. Really only slight achey joints and fatigue over the past week, so my estrogen is likely a bit low as to be expected 4 weeks into a cycle. I can still function just fine, however I imagine upping the dose to 4-6 pumps daily could take a greater toll on you. I tried 5-6 pumps one of the days in week 1 and felt anxiety that day for sure so I dropped it back to a moderate 3 pump dose for this whole cycle to try to make it out to 6 weeks. Lastly, I've felt a bit 'heavy headed' before bed, not in a good or bad way, just like my brain is super tired and ready to switch off into a deep sleep as soon as I close my eyes (kind of like the feeling after a long day/night of smoking weed or getting drunk). It could be a placebo but instinctively it feels related to the prohormones and the new chemicals whizzing around my brain. Again it's a good sensation if anything and helps me feel even more that new things are happening to heal my brain. Plus my sleeps have been deeper of late too. Other than that, I've been perfectly fine, no other noticeable differences or sides than that.

Thank you Cd for finding/recommending the prohormones all these years back. I can't even imagine what would have happened to my life without this protocol let alone the prohormones. The gratitude is crazy. Anywway, I will keep on keeping on. I still have a ways away yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strato

First Ultra Hard Cycle - 4 Weeks In Update - May 2023

Hi all, I am 4 weeks today into my first UltraHard cycle at 3 pumps daily. It has literally been a God send. My mental sides lifted from what felt like 60 to 80% within 2 hours of the first application and permanently stuck since then. It was like night and day, suddenly I felt myself smiling with absolute joy and relief as I realized "there 'I' am again". The old me came significantly back just like that and it was like the whole world felt right again. Priceless moment (and still only just the beginning of the full me returning).

Since that moment, feelings of peace and contentment have become a regular part of my life again. I have been able to just get on living without being constantly consumed by PFS symptoms. People have been noticing my raising energy and positive moods, several times telling me that I've been a joy to be around of late and that they love seeing me happy. It's crazy too cause I can tell my emotions are still quite blunted and I'm not my full self yet (say 70-75% recovered) so I can only imagine how good life will be when this lifts even further over the next cycle or two + the continuing of the protocol.

I have also felt much more ready, willing and able to tackle new projects and goals in my business and personal life. It's like after everything I've been through, regular life seems somewhat easier and there's a deep gratitude that I can just function and do simply day-to-day things. This is a mindset shift you simply can't buy and a blessing from this while finasteride fiasco.

Physically things have improved maybe from 60-65% recovery in terms of libido and erection quality etc. but as many guys have said, the physical symptoms are usually resolved towards the latter stages of recovery. Still, I can have decent sex and get a decent erection (at 70-75% pre-fin), so all thing considered I can live like this until further physical recovery happens.

I still have a long way to go and likely a few cycles left + the protocol + more time to fully recover, but even after this cycle, it's my strong opinion that the prohormones are an absolutely integral and crucial part of recovery. Without this current cycle, I'd likely be snail pacing it towards my recovery and still be battling through crazy sides daily barely able to function (which I was as little as 4 weeks ago). So I absolutely recommend them, hop on them ASAP if it feels right for you.

On that note he, the sides from the prohormones have been very minor. Really only slight achey joints and fatigue over the past week, so my estrogen is likely a bit low as to be expected 4 weeks into a cycle. I can still function just fine, however I imagine upping the dose to 4-6 pumps daily could take a greater toll on you. I tried 5-6 pumps one of the days in week 1 and felt anxiety that day for sure so I dropped it back to a moderate 3 pump dose for this whole cycle to try to make it out to 6 weeks. Lastly, I've felt a bit 'heavy headed' before bed, not in a good or bad way, just like my brain is super tired and ready to switch off into a deep sleep as soon as I close my eyes (kind of like the feeling after a long day/night of smoking weed or getting drunk). It could be a placebo but instinctively it feels related to the prohormones and the new chemicals whizzing around my brain. Again it's a good sensation if anything and helps me feel even more that new things are happening to heal my brain. Plus my sleeps have been deeper of late too. Other than that, I've been perfectly fine, no other noticeable differences or sides than that.

Thank you Cd for finding/recommending the prohormones all these years back. I can't even imagine what would have happened to my life without this protocol let alone the prohormones. The gratitude is crazy. Anywway, I will keep on keeping on. I still have a ways away yet.

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Thanks for checking in and updating us on your recovery. Positive news indeed! Keep it up 👍

Love this last update. Definitely gonna keep my eye on your recovery story.
I just got a bottle of Ultra Hard, not sure if I want to start a cycle right away or wait a bit. I've been on the protocol for almost 2 years now, but didn't start taking pine pollen daily until 3 months ago. And these 3 months have had a lot of great upswings.

First PCT Period - Almost 4 Weeks In - June 2023

Hey fellas, it's been hell of a tough time and whirlwind since my last update. This post is sharing what happened to me in my first PCT period post my first 5 week UltraHard cycle.

Firstly, what I am glad to report is that the positive effects of my first cycle have decently stuck, albeit not nearly as strongly as when I was on cycle. Right now, I feel about 65-70% recovered, whereas on cycle maybe 75-80% recovered (at least on the peak days).

For the first 3 days after I stopped my first cycle, I slowly felt me PFS symptoms creeping back in with increasing extremity. These were primarily neurological PFS symptoms as I hadn't noticed a heap of sexual benefits on cycle so there wasn't much difference here once I hopped off.

Across day 1, I noticed my mind racing a bit more. I started feeling more unrest in myself, like something was off and like I was free-falling a bit through reality. By day 3 post cycle, it was like all my PFS had come back in so strong I became beside myself with a feelings of impending doom that consumed me. My mind was racing uncontrollably, unable to stop. I was fidgeting and synapsing up the walls so to speak. Towards the evening of day 3, I was at my girlfriend's how an basically had a borderline panic attack hit me. I had to sit on her couch in the living room, holding my head in my hands, my feet pulsing against the ground, taking deep breaths over and over to keep it together. The sensation I was going through was as if my brain had been put in a straight jacket and locked in a dark room. It was as if it was in state of despair, totally unable to generate anything but negative thoughts or free itself from a consuming sense of impending doom. It's awful and what I felt like most of time during my worst months post crashing in late 2022.

As I sat on the couch, breathing deeply and trying to steady myself from teetering over the edge, I suddenly felt a series of a 'clicking' sensations happening inside of my brain. It was as a set of switches were getting 'flicked on' and as this happened, it was as if my brain somehow kicked itself back into action (metaphorically breaking one arm free from the straight jacket it was in) and started generating the release of good feeling chemicals again. As this happened, the intense neurological sides subsided super quickly and an immediate state of equilibrium and relief took over. This was not merely a mental shift as if I had something to do with it by changing my mindset or something. No, this felt like a physical/chemical shift inside my brain's functioning itself.

I'm not sure what the hell happened here - looking back, the broscience explanation I have come up with is that once the I stopped the prohormones and thus stopped synthetically feeding my body and mind the right chemicals, everything slowly got depleted until it tripwired my brain and kicked it into an emergency gear where it starting doing everything it could to function and produce all the right chemicals etc. to create the equilibrium it was previously in again, albeit this time self-generated and not synthetically from the prohormones. Whatever it was, suffice to say I was deeply relieved as I feared that I had lost completely all that I had positive recovery I had gained from the first cycle run and was regressing straight back into the 'fighting for dear life in every second mode' that I had been struggling through daily for over 10months with PFS. Thankfully, this was not the case and once this sensation of my brain 'clicking' back into gear happened, the state of relative relief and equilibrium stuck on its own all throughout the rest of this first PCT period.

However, as more days and weeks of PCT have passed, I realized that I have definitely dipped into a sort of midway point between my terrible state before my first cycle and the much better state I had been in on cycle (which I felt about 75% recovered at its peak). So I'm situated somewhere in between both of those points and as it turned out, this current state I'm in is still a major ordeal to function through. Primarily, my brain has gone back to feeling constant raciness, lack of focus, and more restless and uncontrollable. My brain fog, lower moods and motivations have all come back in again too, and generally I felt like I am still far from functioning as my normal self again - although still better than before the cycle for sure as the sense of 'something being profoundly not right in myself or the world' that was with me in every moment pre-cycle has permanently gone (so this is an enormous win).

To make matter worse, I felt totally asexual for literally 3 weeks straight of PCT. This was definitely the biggest difference to on cycle in which I felt for the most part more connected to my dick in sensation, and like I had a more functioning libido. This was wiped to zero again and it was disconcerting but I put up with it as best I could. I freaked out a bit and masturbated a couple of time to porn during the first week which was foolish as I think this further played a part in making my sexual downswing and crash worse than it could have otherwise been. I was having issues with my girlfriend at this time and so this was another reason I turned to the porn/masturbating pleasure as a relief from all this (which was still a big mistake for me at this point in my recovery and I should have known better and been stronger).

There were also a number things that happened to me during the first week or two of PCF that deeply challenged me, one thing came in after another after another. The first was I felt like I was definitely low on E after my first cycle. In particular, I wondered the extent this was potentially playing into my asexual state. My dick looked smaller and more feeble than at any point during my whole PFS journey and felt utterly disconnected from my brain during most of PCT (other than when look at porn or with my gf and even then it was really bad to the point I could hardly have sex the one time I tried it in this PCT period). This, along with my low appetite, weakness at the gym, general lethargy and insomnia, all could have definitely linked to low E, obviously in addition to general life stresses and PFS symptoms too. I can't be sure without blood tests which I won't be getting at the moment, so I guess I won't know for sure how much low E played a part in this super current downswing at this time.

The other thing that I let foolishly and completely accidentally happen was that I used a shampoo which had saw palmetto in it. This happened at some point during the first week of PCT and I couldn't believe it. This was an organic shampoo I'd been using for over 5 years (way prior to using finasteride or having any PFS sides whatsoever) that I liked as it seem to help nourish and thicken up my hair. It is kind of expensive though and due to financial predicament I was in due to this whole finasteride fiasco, I simply hadn't reordered any online for almost a year and was using some cheaper stuff instead. So when I reordered recently, it simply slipped my mind (massive rookie mistake) to check the ingredients because I'd used it for so long in the past.

Anyway, I didn't notice any immediate side effects after applying and washing it out of my hair. I'm pretty sure I was feeling pretty asexual already at the time it happened, but there's a chance it the shampoo may have inhibited some 5-ari and contributed to this extended downswing I've been in. It's hard to say as I never had issues with saw palmetto in the past (I took it as a supplement for a couple of weeks a year or two back with no issues + I used this same shampoo for years), but given how crushed my DHT/5-ari is right now and also just how much more sensitive I seem to be these days to all kind of things (with the finasteride being a prime example of this but also included caffeine, sugar, alcohol etc. although I have steered clear from drinking completely of course). So nonetheless, it was an unlucky thing that happened and I immediately binned the shampoo and started researching all potential DHT/5-ari inhibitors to cross-check all other foods or products I'd been using recently to be super sure and I was fine here.

In addition to this, another unlucky thing happened. In the same week this happened (first week of PCT), my brother came over to give me something when I was sitting on the couch watching TV. As he was leaning towards me, he tripped over and shouldered me square in the nose. It was a complete accident, but it has left me with a noticeable bump in the bridge of my nose. This has surprisingly bummed me out and depressed me a lot as I can't help noticing how prominent the bump is and how it has altered my appearance. It cut me deep. I am someone who has struggled to accept his physical appearance in the past (with the hairloss affecting my self-esteem a lot) and so this bump in the nose brought up a lot of that insecurity, sense of worthlessness and even grief for me to process and face. It sounds so stupid I know, but I really liked my nose before. It was straight and aesthetic as hell and really suited my face - to the point my girlfriend and others would comment how beautiful it looked from a side profile angle. But now it is bumped. I feel disfigured and just hurt by life almost that this could happen so suddenly on top of everything else, but I know too that that's life. The only constant is change. I also know this is totally ridiculous, all in my head, blown out of or proportion, only noticeable and important to me, and to love myself and just get over it. Which I will in time. If there's anything that the whole hair loss/finasteride thing had taught me, it's to embrace yourself for who you are. To accept and love yourself from within based on who you are as a person and the fact that you truly are is a completely loved and perfect life-force / consciousness / soul that lives within the body. You are so much more than how you look and how you look makes you no less worthy or loveable at the core of who you truly are. However, even with this knowledge, it still stung my ego. I can't lie, my ego feels it really sucked that this happened. I felt shocked that such a simple bump to the nose like this in an instant can cause this kind of damage. I thought noses were more durable than this, especially seeing UFC/MMA fights etc. Anyway, after everything I've been through in the past year, it felt like rubbing salt into the wound.

As this happened, and in conjunction with my more chaotic PFS symptoms and downswing, I felt myself falling back into that spiraling survival mode again to a degree. I was able to keep going to the gym and run my business fairly well, but I started binging out on sugary lollies again to ease my pain and staying up later a night binging Netflix series and movies to escape. I started simply going into existing mode, just waiting and counting down the days to my next cycle to get more relief and momentum going with my PFS recovery. I know I shouldn't be putting so much emphasis on the prohormones, but I can't help it as I've realized how powerful and essential they seem to be for the recovery of many guys here, including me after my first experience with them.

Finally, in the second week of PCT, I also received the sudden notice that two of my clients on the same day weren't going to continue with business with me (which greatly affected my cash flow) and then I also got a notice from the government on the same too that my overdue tax bill from the previous year was due to be paid a month early - i.e. 3 days away. This tax payment was something I had to get an extension on from last year due to the financial turmoil I was in directly related to PFS/inability to run my business last year. Both of these money things were simply too much for me to bear at the time. I felt so overwhelmed with the predicament I was in and couldn't believe how much of a fucking struggle I've been constantly in. I couldn't believe life could just be so intensely arduous like this, although of course I know billions of people have far more brutal challenges and period of struggle than me, so I don't mean to make light of this either. But man this is not a fun time.

But with all of this happening at once, especially after the ray of hope I experienced during my first UH cycle, when the PFS symptoms, the nose grief, saw palmetto thing, the money/financial situation all hit within a week, I broke down one afternoon earlier this week. My brother consoled me and I was okay and back to a decently empowered mindset the following day. My fundamental nature is to be positive and choose love over fear, trust over despair, strength over bitterness, acceptance over blame, empowerment over victimhood - although sometimes it takes me a bit of huffing and puffing, carrying on and time to get there.

Anyway, I have pulled myself together over the last couple of days and have come up with a plan (I am writing this currently at the 3 and 1/2 weeks mark into my first PCT). I tend to be quite an emotional person, so I know I simply need a bit more time to process and accept the new appearance of my nose (just like the fresh pain of a breakup takes a few weeks to die down, so too with this change in self-identity). Nevertheless, I know I will be fine and this too shall pass; it's just there is quite a bit of acute pain, grief and inner self-esteem issues from my past all surfacing up at once that have been triggered by this, temporarily making this seem like more extreme of an event than I know deep down it really is.

The money issues I will too just have to keep soldiering on with. I currently don't know what I'm going to do and am down to my last savings that will cover only one more month of rent/living expenses, so it is stressful, but that's just part of the challenges and repercussions of this whole PFS thing. I take responsibility for this and will have to harden up to solve this. Somehow, life will provide and I know I will make it through this too.

As for the PFS symptoms, I've made up my mind to jump back on my second UltraHard cycle, starting today. Even as I write all of these words right now, a part of me is aware at just how ungrounded, unhinged and mentally chaotic I sound right now. I know it's not the real me and is hugely linked to the neurological, emotional, chemical, physical symptoms I am still inundated with. I know this, but it's just so hard to snap out of it because it is you. I am currently locked in this chaotic state and at this level of recovery right now. And so I've decided I need to get back on for my second cycle asap to combat this and hopefully spring me upward into another upswing and much more stable level of permanent recovery. Right now, I am simply still battling too hard with life as I still can't simply function.

I know I might be jumping in prematurely with this second cycle. I know 2-3months is the recommended PCT period, not just under 4 weeks. I know the risk of suppressing my E is there and I do still feel low on E (at least I think I am but maybe I'm actually not, again I can't be sure without blood tests) but even still, I'm going to go for it. I've also seen that CD has run a 12-week cycle on a quite high doses of the old Primordial Performance AH V3 stuff and he didn't get suppressed. I've also read countless other threads of guys doing longer cycles and higher doses to good results. I've also realized the common theme is that each cycle, especially after the 2nd or 3rd cycle, really kicks up guys into a state of recovery where life is bearable and livable again. This enable them to keep doing the protocol and wrapping up, bit by bit, the final stages of their recovery to the point of being 100% healed and thriving again. I want to be there and intend to get there.

So all things considered, this is going to be my plan. I am hopping on for my 2nd cycle of UltraHard later today. I am planning to stay a 3 pumps daily, at least for the first few days or week to start with - and then maybe I'll increase the dose from there, we'll have to see. So that's my plan for now. I hope to God that this can really improve my PFS and overall life situation. I can't wait to be done from the horrible (yet highly informative and character building) chapter of my life. On my cycle, I saw that there is truly a light at the end of the tunnel here. I felt it and could sense my old self was there, albeit at an energetic 'distance' away from me right now - but I could still almost feel and remember what it was like to be him again. So I know the light and end to all of this is out there, although it has dimmed quite a bit for me right now. But I will not only get it back, I will become the light again: a healed and thriving person who is living an amazing life and deeply grateful everyday to be functioning, alive and well every day.

Hey everyone, coming at you with a pretty positive update on the whole. I've just finished my second Ultra Hard cycle last week - it lasted 5 weeks, from June 9 to July 14. I'm currently on day 13 of my second PCT period.

Cycle Benefits and Positive Life Updates

Mentally I felt for all intents and purposes 'recovered' for the first few weeks of the cycle. I was simply like a normal functioning person for the most part, and at times felt downright confident and in great spirits. I was able to completely get on with normal life without giving PFS much thought at all. This was a huge positive win given how extreme my neurological sides have been! I put 'recovered' in quotation marks though because this state did fade quite a bit from the 4-5 week mark, and overall, I still really know I'm not truly there yet, but on cycle I definitely felt for the first time truly more 'normal and recovered' than 'battling through PFS' - the tides definitely turned further than ever before and it's stuck in this direction for the most part post cycle. :D

Sexually though, I didn't notice a huge improvement on the cycle but I wasn't too bothered by this either. My erections are still at 65-70% and my libido was only a bit stronger throughout the cycle than prior. I've been so stressed dealing with my personal life though so this time period wasn't exactly a fair representation of where I'm likely at. Even if I was at full health in a time like this, I'd definitely be feeling less sexually focused due to the stress alone. Still I'm clearly not there sexually yet, but expect this to return at a later stage in my recovery.

Emotionally on cycle I definitely felt more tapped in. On one day in about the second week, I suddenly had a moment where I became self-aware of how well I felt. It suddenly just hit me and I just let go and accepted that this was really happening - that I was really truly recovering and going to get my life back and be okay. I suddenly couldn't it help but just starting crying tears of pure gratitude/relief that I'd gotten to this point in my PFS recovery. These intense emotions just hit me out of the blue and it was the first time I cried with actual tears in over a year as I literally was unable to shed tears due to intense emotional numbness in all the months prior. In this moment (and subsequently several others across the cycle), I could really feel 'myself' and my emotions like I remember being able to pre-PFS. They were still less potent on the whole especially by week 4-5, but a big step forward compared to the utter dullness/blunting of my positive emotions a start of the year. More work here yet, but a great win nonetheless to feel my emotional 'connection' to life coming back again.

As mentioned though, for much of the cycle, I was still sorting through lots of personal life challenges (all semi-directly linked to and caused by PFS). Luckily, and with some inner strength, perseverance and some good luck, I was able to positively turnaround all of these challenges.

Number 1, I was able to land 5 new clients in my business during the cycle. This was again such a relief and it has really boosted me financially, enabling me to de-stress and focus on living a more balanced life again for my recovery. I can invest in organic food, sleep better and focus on my work in a more abundant mindset now. Honestly, as I keep mentioning in my updates, money has been so ongoingly tight all year as a direct result of me being unable to run my business due to being sidelined with PFS. Prior to this cycle, I was down to my last ew hundred dollars with several thousand dollars worth of rent/bills/payments all due only weeks away and literally had no idea where my next dollar was going to come in from. I had begun to cut all kinds of costs down, eating lower quality foods (not good in terms of the protocol/recovery etc.) and was even skipping meals to save on unnecessary expenditures. It was crazy stressful on top of everything else. But it's all turned around now and for the first time in a year, looking to stay that was as I finally feel able to function well enough to run my business proficiently again. Anyway, to those of you who have been in crippling financial binds in your life, you'll know how much getting back into a good place financially can lighten your burden - it's night and day. I'll keep going and see though; I'm learning nothing is guaranteed in this PFS fiasco, so I've got to keep on the ball and take one day at a time financially and in my business - this goes for everything in my recovery journey really too.

Number 2, I was able to make significant peace with the 'bump in my nose' incident from pre-cycle (read about this in my post above if you're interested). This was a huge breakthrough for me (really it was a spiritual moment) where I suddenly just overcame it significantly. In a single moment, I felt my inner love for myself surge so powerfully from within and just deeply heal my insecurities. I felt so much unconditional inner worth bursting out of me from this experience, and am now so grateful that it happened on the whole. Admittedly, I'm still a tiny bit shocked/grief stricken that is happened, but this is only the final remnants I'm processing through here. I'm moving on and embracing my infinite inner worthiness now moreso than ever before, based on my character no matter how I look in my appearance and it feels great and deeply grounding and confidence boosting as I ever recall.

Number 3, my girlfriend and I unfortunately broke up a few weeks back. It was only very minorly linked to my ongoing PFS issues though, she never really careed much about this and was super supportive. It was instead largely just due to our clash in values and visions for our lives ahead. She is about 10 years older than me and looking to settle down/start a family etc. and I just wasn't in a place where I could promise that right now. However, we ended on a sweet and genuine note and I am feeling on the whole optimistic and confident about being single and dating again, and just grateful to have had her in my life for the past 5 months during the worst of the worst PFS times. She really saved me and gave me such incredible support and positivity during many hard moments and was a ray of sunshine in my life on the whole. I'll always be grateful to have met and been with her. Onwards and upwards to single life again, I'm keen to get back out there too!

Cycle Cons and Concerns

Firstly, I was a bit foolish or risky (however you want to look at it) when I hopped back onto my 2nd UH cycle after only 3 and a half weeks of PCT in between. I know CD and others recommend 8-12 weeks of PCT, but my mental sides were still so all consuming/bad and my life situation again so demanding/challenging at that point, that I just took the risk and plunged back in earlier. I simply couldn't bear going on with the PFS sides knowing how beneficial the first cycle was, and above and beyond that, literally couldn't keep up with my life challenges with that level of functionality.

It was still premature though as I definitely had quite low E sides post my first cycle (vey low libido, anxiety, achy joints, lethargy) that I could sense needed more time in PCT to fully bounce back. However, starting the 2nd cycle early also really paid off as I shifted up to another level of baseline recovery which has now stuck, so I was correct in going for it in that sense.

So for this 2nd cycle, I had planned on upping my Ultra Hard dose to 4-5pumps daily up from only 3 pumps during my first cycle. This was going well for the first week or so until I accidentally broke the UH bottle air-pump. From that point on, I had no way of dosing the UH accurately and couldn't even dispense out of the bottle except by smacking it out of the bottom into my hand and eyeballing the amount/dosage. Thus, even though I was trying to be as accurate as can be, most days I had no clear idea how many pumps I was using, although a likely guess was generally between 3 - 6 pumps.

However, on one of mornings at around the week 3 mark, I was in a rush to get ready and accidentally hit the bottom too hard and a lot more than 4-5 pumps came out - maybe 7-8 pumps or more worth of substance. I hadn't been experiencing any bad sides effects at all at that point (no significant low E signs), so in the spur of the moment I figured it would be okay and just rubbed the full amount on without much of a second thought (dumb decision) as I then quickly dressed and rushed out for the day.

But later that night, I woke up at 3-4am with an intense feeling of pressure in my head/brain. It felt like my brain was being overly 'flooded', 'saturated' and 'stimulated' by something in a very strange and discombobulating way. Along with this sensation, I heard a constant loud ringing sound in both my ears. I immediately felt overwhelmed by intense anxiety and had to breath and calm myself through it for like 30mins until it passed - not fun at all. I was careful to keep my dosages lower/towards the conservative end for the rest of the cycle and was okay.

But the main most concerning thing that happened to me was when I stopped the second cycle at the 5 week mark. Over the next 2-3 days post cycle, I experienced some really strange sensations and side effects happen as my body/brain was readjusting coming off the UH. Intense head pressure, feelings of the same 'aching brain' and neurological PFS type symptoms, along with hearing sensitivity and loud tinnitus.

At one point on day 1 of PCT, I was walking down the street and someone shut their car door like 10 meters away from me but I heard a loud 'BOOM' inside my ear, as if it was shutting right beside me. My heart lifted from my chest as this happened. It was like I had hearing aids in or something that were turned up way to high. As this continued throughout the first day of PCT< I felt a pit in my stomach of dread/anxiety over the thought that I had somehow destabilized/unsettled my brain with the UH.

Anyway, thankfully over day 2 of PCT, the head pressure and hearing sensitivity went away completely. The constant tinnitus remained quite intensely for the next 10 days of PCT after this. It wasn't too bad during the day and fairly easy to tune out. But at nighttime as I was trying to fall asleep, it became very noticeable especially in my left ear and quite disconcerting. Luckily by about day 13 of PCT (i.e. the day I'm writing this), the tinnitus has gone down even more even though there at times it is still present and there (again especially at nighttime).

I've since been learning that it is likely something to do with either low or high GABA activity, potentially caused by high Epiandrosterone levels from the UH which acts as a GABA antagonist. I've been told by a couple of guys that I should keep giving it more time and that with the right holistically healthy living and more extended PCT, it should all return to normal. So even though I'm not fully free of the tinnitus yet, this does seem to be true and it seems to be getting better bit by bit. But overall, I learnt a lot of lessons here about pushing the envelope when it comes cycles/PCT times. The recommended 2-3month PCT is obviously there for a reason, so I take full responsibility for taking the risk to go in sooner with only 3 weeks of PCT in between.

I now know and feel that an extended PCT/break period between now and my next cycle is necessary. But also, now that I am at a new baseline level of recovery - which thankfully has stuck post cycle to a significant degree as I now only have very minor mental PFS sides - I can now more or less function and live a normal life without being consumed by PFS. So despite the slightly lingering tinnitus and likely low E/sexual sides still present, this new baseline is truly an amazing win mentally and was the whole purpose behind my pre-emptive second cycle. Anyway, I will give it time now and see. I am really hoping that my tinnitus/slight head pressure/PFS mental symptoms will fully clear up with a bit more time. We shall see.

Strangely too, I didn't really get feel any strong low E signs during my second cycle. I didn't get any strong achy joints, anxiety, even worst libido or lethargy this time like I clearly did my first cycle round and was able to easily keep up things like gym/lifting etc. for the whole 5 weeks. I mention this because you'd think the low E sides would have become even more prominent due to how much cumulative UH I'd been on across the 2 cycles with not a whole lot of PCT time in between. So not sure what to make of this - perhaps my E is so low I'm beyond even symptoms and have adjusted to it lol I guess I did, however, have pretty low libido/ED towards throughout and this has continued into the first 2 weeks of my second PCT period, so my E is probably quite low at the moment, or it's perhaps just pure PFS sexual sides/life stress still processing through my system or a combo of both, but who knows for sure. I'm still not going to get a blood test yet - I'm going to see how I go for now and get one instead after my next cycle or so.

Last but not least, I've been really thrown off from taking the PCT herbs/supplements even since learning about the potential disastrous consequences of taking Lion's Mane (see God's earlier thread about this) and the YouTuber Ryan Russo's Lion's Mane induced PFS videos. There's also a whole subreddit dedicated to Lion's Mane crashes to go along with this, although I've stayed away from reading much up on this for now.

I don't know what to make of all this, but it does seem very legit and it scared me from taking any other of the TMO herbs/supplements until I've done my own further research. I've since found various PFS guys claiming everything from tribulus, to vitamin b, to ashwagandha, to weed all having induced PFS / crash-like side effects. I don't know if these are legit or overblown or what to fully make of it all as I haven't been able to separate the signal from the noise yet. For now though, I've stopped taking all PCT herbs and daily vitamins until I do further research and find my own peace of mind with what I think is extremely safe (i.e. no consistent reports of PFS crashes or inducements).

Given that CD recommends Lion's Mane on the TMO website though, I've been quite thrown by this. The lion's mane stuff in particular seems the most serious/legit as I can tell so far (again still not definite even on that though), so if this is the case, then that's a huge oversight on CD's behalf. It makes me think we need to update TMO to even more latest info as PFS understanding and community evolves and grows. I think this is a crucially important attitude. Imagine a guy following CD and doing so well (because most of what CD provides in the protocol truly is amazing no doubt about that) only to severely crash taking lion's mane like 6-12 months in - there's just no need for it. At the very least, there should be warnings on the TMO website about these potential crashes for various herbs - even if it's truly unlikely, guys deserve to know to make the informed decision then themselves. It's better safe than sorry here with how terrible PFS is.

Having said this, I recognize it's definitely the PFS trauma speaking in me right now and playing a role in all of this concern. Obviously I don't want to inadvertently crash myself when I've been struggling for dear life for a whole year just to barely make it to this newfound semi-functional baseline state. I still believe most of the herbs are likely very safe and beneficial on the whole.

Anyway, this has been a bit rattling and confusing, but I will no doubt clarify it for myself soon. I would love CDs/other guys pinions on all this too if you have any. I know most guys are fine on almost all the herbs/supplements, so that's got to count for something despite some of these scarier potential sides/crash effects and outlier cases. Still I won't be tempting fate my though on potentially crash-worthy ones, as my body's general sensitivity to various substances is exactly what seems to have led me to PFS in the first place. Especially still in my body's current more fragile recovering/healing PFS state, this is a no go for me. Not worth the risk at all. I'll let everyone know what I find in my research - which supps I rule out and which I conclude are safe in my next update soon.

Plans And Way Forward

It's a shame that this forum seems pretty much dead at the moment. I'm not holding my breath for much feedback/answers here and am moving over to the PFS discord which seems more active.

These posts are more journaling/logs just for me at this point to cathartically, authentically, vulnerably and in detail express my journey. It really does help my mental health to log and write everything out as part of my process. I do hope it course my help a small number of others too. I'm still very much grateful to CD and overall that this place exists. It's still an absolutely life-saving resource.

Very lastly, I've ordered some Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations and am tentatively planning to run this in combination with UH for my third cycle in future. We will see how this pans out, for now I will keep on keeping on in this PCT period (albeit without the herbs for the time-being until I finish making sense of this particular topic).

Mike case you will rexocer

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OH is dead as well
Kinder if there will ever be a ph dicord.mother couk d never control that

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Good luck you will be fine


filthy orange bastrds want to.machete them to death stick them in a barrel.if l k.and light a match

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Propecianhell is really dead apart from hippy doo f Lazarus and Exswx

I wonder how they can sustain that going forward there is nobody cintributjnhbwhatseiver

Fuck man I had condensing forward completely stable untol.took seroqurl

Should I off

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Myself

Have you consider visiting a medical.professional

I want to ducking kilometre

From ducking recovered to this shut man

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Ducking shrinkage and masquerade wastage Jesus ducking Christ man

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Ducking orange basards want to.dented the cunts

My life is over essentially

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strato

First PCT Period - Almost 4 Weeks In - June 2023

Hey fellas, it's been hell of a tough time and whirlwind since my last update. This post is sharing what happened to me in my first PCT period post my first 5 week UltraHard cycle.

Firstly, what I am glad to report is that the positive effects of my first cycle have decently stuck, albeit not nearly as strongly as when I was on cycle. Right now, I feel about 65-70% recovered, whereas on cycle maybe 75-80% recovered (at least on the peak days).

For the first 3 days after I stopped my first cycle, I slowly felt me PFS symptoms creeping back in with increasing extremity. These were primarily neurological PFS symptoms as I hadn't noticed a heap of sexual benefits on cycle so there wasn't much difference here once I hopped off.

Across day 1, I noticed my mind racing a bit more. I started feeling more unrest in myself, like something was off and like I was free-falling a bit through reality. By day 3 post cycle, it was like all my PFS had come back in so strong I became beside myself with a feelings of impending doom that consumed me. My mind was racing uncontrollably, unable to stop. I was fidgeting and synapsing up the walls so to speak. Towards the evening of day 3, I was at my girlfriend's how an basically had a borderline panic attack hit me. I had to sit on her couch in the living room, holding my head in my hands, my feet pulsing against the ground, taking deep breaths over and over to keep it together. The sensation I was going through was as if my brain had been put in a straight jacket and locked in a dark room. It was as if it was in state of despair, totally unable to generate anything but negative thoughts or free itself from a consuming sense of impending doom. It's awful and what I felt like most of time during my worst months post crashing in late 2022.

As I sat on the couch, breathing deeply and trying to steady myself from teetering over the edge, I suddenly felt a series of a 'clicking' sensations happening inside of my brain. It was as a set of switches were getting 'flicked on' and as this happened, it was as if my brain somehow kicked itself back into action (metaphorically breaking one arm free from the straight jacket it was in) and started generating the release of good feeling chemicals again. As this happened, the intense neurological sides subsided super quickly and an immediate state of equilibrium and relief took over. This was not merely a mental shift as if I had something to do with it by changing my mindset or something. No, this felt like a physical/chemical shift inside my brain's functioning itself.

I'm not sure what the hell happened here - looking back, the broscience explanation I have come up with is that once the I stopped the prohormones and thus stopped synthetically feeding my body and mind the right chemicals, everything slowly got depleted until it tripwired my brain and kicked it into an emergency gear where it starting doing everything it could to function and produce all the right chemicals etc. to create the equilibrium it was previously in again, albeit this time self-generated and not synthetically from the prohormones. Whatever it was, suffice to say I was deeply relieved as I feared that I had lost completely all that I had positive recovery I had gained from the first cycle run and was regressing straight back into the 'fighting for dear life in every second mode' that I had been struggling through daily for over 10months with PFS. Thankfully, this was not the case and once this sensation of my brain 'clicking' back into gear happened, the state of relative relief and equilibrium stuck on its own all throughout the rest of this first PCT period.

However, as more days and weeks of PCT have passed, I realized that I have definitely dipped into a sort of midway point between my terrible state before my first cycle and the much better state I had been in on cycle (which I felt about 75% recovered at its peak). So I'm situated somewhere in between both of those points and as it turned out, this current state I'm in is still a major ordeal to function through. Primarily, my brain has gone back to feeling constant raciness, lack of focus, and more restless and uncontrollable. My brain fog, lower moods and motivations have all come back in again too, and generally I felt like I am still far from functioning as my normal self again - although still better than before the cycle for sure as the sense of 'something being profoundly not right in myself or the world' that was with me in every moment pre-cycle has permanently gone (so this is an enormous win).

To make matter worse, I felt totally asexual for literally 3 weeks straight of PCT. This was definitely the biggest difference to on cycle in which I felt for the most part more connected to my dick in sensation, and like I had a more functioning libido. This was wiped to zero again and it was disconcerting but I put up with it as best I could. I freaked out a bit and masturbated a couple of time to porn during the first week which was foolish as I think this further played a part in making my sexual downswing and crash worse than it could have otherwise been. I was having issues with my girlfriend at this time and so this was another reason I turned to the porn/masturbating pleasure as a relief from all this (which was still a big mistake for me at this point in my recovery and I should have known better and been stronger).

There were also a number things that happened to me during the first week or two of PCF that deeply challenged me, one thing came in after another after another. The first was I felt like I was definitely low on E after my first cycle. In particular, I wondered the extent this was potentially playing into my asexual state. My dick looked smaller and more feeble than at any point during my whole PFS journey and felt utterly disconnected from my brain during most of PCT (other than when look at porn or with my gf and even then it was really bad to the point I could hardly have sex the one time I tried it in this PCT period). This, along with my low appetite, weakness at the gym, general lethargy and insomnia, all could have definitely linked to low E, obviously in addition to general life stresses and PFS symptoms too. I can't be sure without blood tests which I won't be getting at the moment, so I guess I won't know for sure how much low E played a part in this super current downswing at this time.

The other thing that I let foolishly and completely accidentally happen was that I used a shampoo which had saw palmetto in it. This happened at some point during the first week of PCT and I couldn't believe it. This was an organic shampoo I'd been using for over 5 years (way prior to using finasteride or having any PFS sides whatsoever) that I liked as it seem to help nourish and thicken up my hair. It is kind of expensive though and due to financial predicament I was in due to this whole finasteride fiasco, I simply hadn't reordered any online for almost a year and was using some cheaper stuff instead. So when I reordered recently, it simply slipped my mind (massive rookie mistake) to check the ingredients because I'd used it for so long in the past.

Anyway, I didn't notice any immediate side effects after applying and washing it out of my hair. I'm pretty sure I was feeling pretty asexual already at the time it happened, but there's a chance it the shampoo may have inhibited some 5-ari and contributed to this extended downswing I've been in. It's hard to say as I never had issues with saw palmetto in the past (I took it as a supplement for a couple of weeks a year or two back with no issues + I used this same shampoo for years), but given how crushed my DHT/5-ari is right now and also just how much more sensitive I seem to be these days to all kind of things (with the finasteride being a prime example of this but also included caffeine, sugar, alcohol etc. although I have steered clear from drinking completely of course). So nonetheless, it was an unlucky thing that happened and I immediately binned the shampoo and started researching all potential DHT/5-ari inhibitors to cross-check all other foods or products I'd been using recently to be super sure and I was fine here.

In addition to this, another unlucky thing happened. In the same week this happened (first week of PCT), my brother came over to give me something when I was sitting on the couch watching TV. As he was leaning towards me, he tripped over and shouldered me square in the nose. It was a complete accident, but it has left me with a noticeable bump in the bridge of my nose. This has surprisingly bummed me out and depressed me a lot as I can't help noticing how prominent the bump is and how it has altered my appearance. It cut me deep. I am someone who has struggled to accept his physical appearance in the past (with the hairloss affecting my self-esteem a lot) and so this bump in the nose brought up a lot of that insecurity, sense of worthlessness and even grief for me to process and face. It sounds so stupid I know, but I really liked my nose before. It was straight and aesthetic as hell and really suited my face - to the point my girlfriend and others would comment how beautiful it looked from a side profile angle. But now it is bumped. I feel disfigured and just hurt by life almost that this could happen so suddenly on top of everything else, but I know too that that's life. The only constant is change. I also know this is totally ridiculous, all in my head, blown out of or proportion, only noticeable and important to me, and to love myself and just get over it. Which I will in time. If there's anything that the whole hair loss/finasteride thing had taught me, it's to embrace yourself for who you are. To accept and love yourself from within based on who you are as a person and the fact that you truly are is a completely loved and perfect life-force / consciousness / soul that lives within the body. You are so much more than how you look and how you look makes you no less worthy or loveable at the core of who you truly are. However, even with this knowledge, it still stung my ego. I can't lie, my ego feels it really sucked that this happened. I felt shocked that such a simple bump to the nose like this in an instant can cause this kind of damage. I thought noses were more durable than this, especially seeing UFC/MMA fights etc. Anyway, after everything I've been through in the past year, it felt like rubbing salt into the wound.

As this happened, and in conjunction with my more chaotic PFS symptoms and downswing, I felt myself falling back into that spiraling survival mode again to a degree. I was able to keep going to the gym and run my business fairly well, but I started binging out on sugary lollies again to ease my pain and staying up later a night binging Netflix series and movies to escape. I started simply going into existing mode, just waiting and counting down the days to my next cycle to get more relief and momentum going with my PFS recovery. I know I shouldn't be putting so much emphasis on the prohormones, but I can't help it as I've realized how powerful and essential they seem to be for the recovery of many guys here, including me after my first experience with them.

Finally, in the second week of PCT, I also received the sudden notice that two of my clients on the same day weren't going to continue with business with me (which greatly affected my cash flow) and then I also got a notice from the government on the same too that my overdue tax bill from the previous year was due to be paid a month early - i.e. 3 days away. This tax payment was something I had to get an extension on from last year due to the financial turmoil I was in directly related to PFS/inability to run my business last year. Both of these money things were simply too much for me to bear at the time. I felt so overwhelmed with the predicament I was in and couldn't believe how much of a fucking struggle I've been constantly in. I couldn't believe life could just be so intensely arduous like this, although of course I know billions of people have far more brutal challenges and period of struggle than me, so I don't mean to make light of this either. But man this is not a fun time.

But with all of this happening at once, especially after the ray of hope I experienced during my first UH cycle, when the PFS symptoms, the nose grief, saw palmetto thing, the money/financial situation all hit within a week, I broke down one afternoon earlier this week. My brother consoled me and I was okay and back to a decently empowered mindset the following day. My fundamental nature is to be positive and choose love over fear, trust over despair, strength over bitterness, acceptance over blame, empowerment over victimhood - although sometimes it takes me a bit of huffing and puffing, carrying on and time to get there.

Anyway, I have pulled myself together over the last couple of days and have come up with a plan (I am writing this currently at the 3 and 1/2 weeks mark into my first PCT). I tend to be quite an emotional person, so I know I simply need a bit more time to process and accept the new appearance of my nose (just like the fresh pain of a breakup takes a few weeks to die down, so too with this change in self-identity). Nevertheless, I know I will be fine and this too shall pass; it's just there is quite a bit of acute pain, grief and inner self-esteem issues from my past all surfacing up at once that have been triggered by this, temporarily making this seem like more extreme of an event than I know deep down it really is.

The money issues I will too just have to keep soldiering on with. I currently don't know what I'm going to do and am down to my last savings that will cover only one more month of rent/living expenses, so it is stressful, but that's just part of the challenges and repercussions of this whole PFS thing. I take responsibility for this and will have to harden up to solve this. Somehow, life will provide and I know I will make it through this too.

As for the PFS symptoms, I've made up my mind to jump back on my second UltraHard cycle, starting today. Even as I write all of these words right now, a part of me is aware at just how ungrounded, unhinged and mentally chaotic I sound right now. I know it's not the real me and is hugely linked to the neurological, emotional, chemical, physical symptoms I am still inundated with. I know this, but it's just so hard to snap out of it because it is you. I am currently locked in this chaotic state and at this level of recovery right now. And so I've decided I need to get back on for my second cycle asap to combat this and hopefully spring me upward into another upswing and much more stable level of permanent recovery. Right now, I am simply still battling too hard with life as I still can't simply function.

I know I might be jumping in prematurely with this second cycle. I know 2-3months is the recommended PCT period, not just under 4 weeks. I know the risk of suppressing my E is there and I do still feel low on E (at least I think I am but maybe I'm actually not, again I can't be sure without blood tests) but even still, I'm going to go for it. I've also seen that CD has run a 12-week cycle on a quite high doses of the old Primordial Performance AH V3 stuff and he didn't get suppressed. I've also read countless other threads of guys doing longer cycles and higher doses to good results. I've also realized the common theme is that each cycle, especially after the 2nd or 3rd cycle, really kicks up guys into a state of recovery where life is bearable and livable again. This enable them to keep doing the protocol and wrapping up, bit by bit, the final stages of their recovery to the point of being 100% healed and thriving again. I want to be there and intend to get there.

So all things considered, this is going to be my plan. I am hopping on for my 2nd cycle of UltraHard later today. I am planning to stay a 3 pumps daily, at least for the first few days or week to start with - and then maybe I'll increase the dose from there, we'll have to see. So that's my plan for now. I hope to God that this can really improve my PFS and overall life situation. I can't wait to be done from the horrible (yet highly informative and character building) chapter of my life. On my cycle, I saw that there is truly a light at the end of the tunnel here. I felt it and could sense my old self was there, albeit at an energetic 'distance' away from me right now - but I could still almost feel and remember what it was like to be him again. So I know the light and end to all of this is out there, although it has dimmed quite a bit for me right now. But I will not only get it back, I will become the light again: a healed and thriving person who is living an amazing life and deeply grateful everyday to be functioning, alive and well every day.

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Hi Strato, thanks for sharing your experience and the road to recovery. Very soon you will be there.

The only thing I see is that you must respect the time between cycles for them to be effective.

I have found that the body reacts well to supplements when it is prepared. In addition to taking them, you have to give the body time, space to recover and return to its balance. I think recovery time is as important as everything else.

Not by supplementing the body more or by doing more cycles you get more results. You have to give it time to get stronger and be able to react to supplements and cycles. Going too far can cause the opposite of what we want.

With the herbs the same. You have to find the amount and the time in which your body reacts strongly to them and does not react negatively.

You are doing it very well. Keep it up.