Methylfolate

Hey guys, I could use some advice or input.

I started taking a B complex earlier this month for the 2nd time in my life, the only other time was right after I crashed and this same thing happened but I thought it was all Fin. I started to feel amazing, so I started to think my body may not be absorbing B vitamins correctly. I looked into Methylfolate and decided to try it, I last took it about 4 days ago and I've been sick ever since with what feels like a sinus infection, and its like I am completely crashing almost. Dry mouth, dry skin, headache, light sensitivity, feverish, brain fog, fatigue, and my anxiety is absolutely skull crushing. This experience is like exactly how it went a year ago when I crashed from Fin. Does anyone know what could be going on? Or know anything about the methylation process or how long it lasts? I'm thinking it could have dropped my potassium a ton, I am honestly feeling like I need to go to the hospital or I will faint. Of course I saw some horror stories about methylfolate after I took this stuff so this has been a fun day of PFS 2.0 almost. This is pretty crazy because I was doing so well just before this.

Anyways, sorry to freak anyone out but any advice would be really useful. This isn't fun.

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

Hey guys, I could use some advice or input.

I started taking a B complex earlier this month for the 2nd time in my life, the only other time was right after I crashed and this same thing happened but I thought it was all Fin. I started to feel amazing, so I started to think my body may not be absorbing B vitamins correctly. I looked into Methylfolate and decided to try it, I last took it about 4 days ago and I've been sick ever since with what feels like a sinus infection, and its like I am completely crashing almost. Dry mouth, dry skin, headache, light sensitivity, feverish, brain fog, fatigue, and my anxiety is absolutely skull crushing. This experience is like exactly how it went a year ago when I crashed from Fin. Does anyone know what could be going on? Or know anything about the methylation process or how long it lasts? I'm thinking it could have dropped my potassium a ton, I am honestly feeling like I need to go to the hospital or I will faint. Of course I saw some horror stories about methylfolate after I took this stuff so this has been a fun day of PFS 2.0 almost. This is pretty crazy because I was doing so well just before this.

Anyways, sorry to freak anyone out but any advice would be really useful. This isn't fun.

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I’m sorry to hear that this happened. Get checked out by a doctor to see if you have any problems from too much of whatever type of vitamins, and stay away from that in the future if you had a bad reaction to it.

Then just keep following the program, stay the course, and you will improve.

@Cdsnuts do you have any input in this? This is absolutely agonizing, I have no idea what to do.

I can probably weigh in a little bit. You don't want to take any methyl based vitamins. Period. Some of the studied science of PFS so far is that SRD5a1 and/or SRD5a2 genes (depends on the offending substance) of specific tissues in the body have been methylated by the offending substance, whether it be herbs like saw palmetto and green tea extract or medications like Propecia/Proscar/Finasteride and Avodart/Dutasteride. Methylation is when an added carbon molecule is added to cells causing an altered gene expression. Basically, this a technical way of saying the 5ar enzyme has been reprogrammed by the substance to not produce metabolites in certain areas of the body. Taking methyl based Bs causes it to worsen because you're adding methylated substances on top of an already existing methylation issue. If you're wanting to take Bs, take them individually in non-methyl forms instead of in a complex because complexes will, most of the time, have these methyl ingredients. Personally, I'm doing individually Thiamin (B1), Riboflavin (B2), Niacinamide (B3), and Pyridoxine HCl (B6) to avoid that issue. B12 can be acquired in a couple of eggs.

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

I can probably weigh in a little bit. You don't want to take any methyl based vitamins. Period. Some of the studied science of PFS so far is that SRD5a1 and/or SRD5a2 genes (depends on the offending substance) of specific tissues in the body have been methylated by the offending substance, whether it be herbs like saw palmetto and green tea extract or medications like Propecia/Proscar/Finasteride and Avodart/Dutasteride. Methylation is when an added carbon molecule is added to cells causing an altered gene expression. Basically, this a technical way of saying the 5ar enzyme has been reprogrammed by the substance to not produce metabolites in certain areas of the body. Taking methyl based Bs causes it to worsen because you're adding methylated substances on top of an already existing methylation issue. If you're wanting to take Bs, take them individually in non-methyl forms instead of in a complex because complexes will, most of the time, have these methyl ingredients. Personally, I'm doing individually Thiamin (B1), Riboflavin (B2), Niacinamide (B3), and Pyridoxine HCl (B6) to avoid that issue. B12 can be acquired in a couple of eggs.

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Well the damage is done, do you have any advice? I’ve never felt anything like this in my life. My anxiety is constant and it feels like I’m on fire.

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

Well the damage is done, do you have any advice? I’ve never felt anything like this in my life. My anxiety is constant and it feels like I’m on fire.

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Best advice I can give is start demethylating, focus more on the herbs CD laid out that act as agonists to the GABA-a receptors, and drop anything you might be taking that act as stimulants.

To demethylate, you need to boost your cell's cofactors (NAD, NAD+, and NADPH). NADPH also happens to be responsible for metabolizing 5ar inhibitors out and expressing 5ar activity in the body. Have a read at the link below and take the stuff in the graph. No more methyls, ok? On top of that, you need an oxidizer to strip the added carbon molecule from your cells. You do this by having heavy saturation of Oxygen in the body, so do the breathing technique, Wim Hof, that CD recommends. Oxygen is an oxidizer. You can also do 10min warm H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) baths once or twice a week with 1-1.5 cups 35% food grade peroxide. Peroxide is an oxidizer and known in natural medicine to detox the body.

Demethylate: Benefits of Niacin Niacinamide

Role of NADPH w/ 5ar: The 5 Alpha-Reductase Isozyme Family: A Review of Basic Biology and Their Role in Human Diseases

Mammalian Bio Oxidation to Remove Methyl Groups: How to Remove a Methyl Group

Oxidize: 5 Reasons You Should Take a Hydrogen Peroxide Bath

EDIT: Just want to add that I know all too well what you're experiencing. When I was at my worst, every square inch of my skin burned like I had been in the hot sun all day without sun screen. And the anxiety was radiating in every fiber of my muscles. My heart would pound fast and hard and wasn't even psychological. I was convinced I was dying. And if I wasn't dying, I hoped I'd die because it was too overwhelming to handle. I've been doing the above and it helped a hell of a lot.

P.S. @Cdsnuts, I was reading back on your 2016/17 posts and your complaint of certain prohormomes not sitting right with you based on ever-changing ingredients from the manufacturer is also related to this, from what I've researched. You reacted to the methyl forms of Andro they were putting in but loved the non-methyl forms that helped fix you up and make you feel amazing. That's why. Since 5ar metabolites/prohormomes directly synthesize and influence 5ar behavior, you were adding methylation to methylation.

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

Best advice I can give is start demethylating, focus more on the herbs CD laid out that act as agonists to the GABA-a receptors, and drop anything you might be taking that act as stimulants.

To demethylate, you need to boost your cell's cofactors (NAD, NAD+, and NADPH). NADPH also happens to be responsible for metabolizing 5ar inhibitors out and expressing 5ar activity in the body. Have a read at the link below and take the stuff in the graph. No more methyls, ok? On top of that, you need an oxidizer to strip the added carbon molecule from your cells. You do this by having heavy saturation of Oxygen in the body, so do the breathing technique, Wim Hof, that CD recommends. Oxygen is an oxidizer. You can also do 10min warm H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) baths once or twice a week with 1-1.5 cups 35% food grade peroxide. Peroxide is an oxidizer and known in natural medicine to detox the body.

Demethylate: Benefits of Niacin Niacinamide

Oxidize: 5 Reasons You Should Take a Hydrogen Peroxide Bath

EDIT: Just want to add that I know all too well what you're experiencing. When I was at my worst, every square inch of my skin burned like I had been in the hot sun all day without sun screen. And the anxiety was radiating in every fiber of my muscles. My heart would pound fast and hard and wasn't even psychological. I was convinced I was dying. And if I wasn't dying, I hoped I'd die because it was too overwhelming to handle. I've been doing the above and it helped a hell of a lot.

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Thanks man. I want to try that stuff but I’m mortified to put anything in my body. I took B complex that included folic acid and b12 along with the other things that were mentioned, is this a bad idea? I drank a little bit of coffee because I read it is a demethylator, feeling maybe a little calmer, seriously hoping it doesn’t backfire on me. I’ve had a constant panic attack and insomnia for 5 straight days and I am so wired that it feels like I’m crawling out of my skin. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

Thanks man. I want to try that stuff but I’m mortified to put anything in my body. I took B complex that included folic acid and b12 along with the other things that were mentioned, is this a bad idea? I drank a little bit of coffee because I read it is a demethylator, feeling maybe a little calmer, seriously hoping it doesn’t backfire on me. I’ve had a constant panic attack and insomnia for 5 straight days and I am so wired that it feels like I’m crawling out of my skin. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

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I know your scared man. Totally get it. All too well, in fact. Don't be though. So long as you're steering clear of the stuff that does more harm than good, you're good. And find peace in knowing that you're not the only having the same exact reactions and experiences.

Folic acid is out. Not good and many also reported that being an issue as well. And B12 you don't need, unless you're severely deficient. But B12 has little to do with any of the processes that got impacted and is unimportant. If you want it, like I said, just eat a couple of eggs every so often. If you can handle coffee and it makes you feel good, then it should be fine. But it's not good for sleep, so keep that in mind. Personally, I tried black coffee recently and did not like the stimulation at all. I wanted more calm and peace. And coffee typically does not do that by nature, unless you're wired weird in the brain.

If you can, get your BP measured with a monitor you might have or go down to your local pharmacy, as they usually have those free BP booths. If it's high, your cholesterol is probably high, which will cause your heart to pound hard and fast, and you need to lower that.

To me, sounds like you also need stuff to help you relax and ease. Not stimulate. Glycine, GABA, Ziziphus, Albizia, Magnesium, and 5a-DHP are all excellent for that plus sleep.

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

I know your scared man. Totally get it. All too well, in fact. Don't be though. So long as you're steering clear of the stuff that does more harm than good, you're good. And find peace in knowing that you're not the only having the same exact reactions and experiences.

Folic acid is out. Not good and many also reported that being an issue as well. And B12 you don't need, unless you're severely deficient. But B12 has little to do with any of the processes that got impacted and is unimportant. If you want it, like I said, just eat a couple of eggs every so often. If you can handle coffee and it makes you feel good, then it should be fine. But it's not good for sleep, so keep that in mind. Personally, I tried black coffee recently and did not like the stimulation at all. I wanted more calm and peace. And coffee typically does not do that by nature, unless you're wired weird in the brain.

If you can, get your BP measured with a monitor you might have or go down to your local pharmacy, as they usually have those free BP booths. If it's high, your cholesterol is probably high, which will cause your heart to pound hard and fast, and you need to lower that.

To me, sounds like you also need stuff to help you relax and ease. Not stimulate. Glycine, GABA, Ziziphus, Albizia, Magnesium, and 5a-DHP are all excellent for that plus sleep.

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Thanks for the support man. Is this methylation thing something that goes away on its own? Like my body will iron it out eventually? The whole PFS experience has me traumatized and I think it’s playing a part in this.

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

Thanks for the support man. Is this methylation thing something that goes away on its own? Like my body will iron it out eventually? The whole PFS experience has me traumatized and I think it’s playing a part in this.

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Yes and no. I'll explain. Yes because, case in point the several recoveries of people here, including @Cdsnuts. Methylation and demethylation occurs in the body all the time. Methylation is not permanent. PFS is unique and new because it doesn't happen naturally and the body can't effectively demethylate in some guys. The stupid belief by PH people and oblivious doctors who don't even know much about the condition is that PFS is permanent. It is if left unaddressed and you're not targeting the root problem because, again, the body can't do it on it's own effectively enough in some guys (us). CD's fast + diet protocol puts the body in the best natural, ideal position to demethylate on its own over time. The added stuff like specific exercises, prohormones, T boosting herbs, etc. accelerate the demethyl process, as long as you're doing it right.

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

Yes and no. I'll explain. Yes because, case in point the several recoveries of people here, including @Cdsnuts. Methylation and demethylation occurs in the body all the time. Methylation is not permanent. PFS is unique and new because it doesn't happen naturally and the body can't effectively demethylate in some guys. The stupid belief by PH people and oblivious doctors who don't even know much about the condition is that PFS is permanent. It is if left unaddressed and you're not targeting the root problem because, again, the body can't do it on it's own effectively enough in some guys (us). CD's fast + diet protocol puts the body in the best natural, ideal position to demethylate on its own over time. The added stuff like specific exercises, prohormones, T boosting herbs, etc. accelerate the demethyl process, as long as you're doing it right.

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Well I’ve been strict protocol for almost 6 months, so hopefully that helps. I considered myself upwards of 70% recovered just last week.

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

Well I’ve been strict protocol for almost 6 months, so hopefully that helps. I considered myself upwards of 70% recovered just last week.

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Same. A couple months ago, I would put myself around 30-50%. Started doing the stuff that actually makes scientific sense and would rate myself a lot between 50-70%. All depends on the day. You’ll have what's termed "downswings" but this is what everyone goes through. Imagine it like the stock market. You have an overall upward trend of a stock but there may be dips along the rate of growth. Just how it goes. Oblivious newbies react frantic and then pull out, thus losing money and losing the opportunity of future gains once the dip is recovered. PH mindset. Same goes here. There is a proven path out of this that takes time and dedication but is not an instant fix. PH people go after CD all the time calling him a fraud, a liar, recovered guys here bots, and then continue to stew in their own misery after giving up because they wanted an instant fix and never actually getting better then experiment with crazy shit and wreck themselves worse. Whether CD and the guys here are aware of the full in-depth science of this stuff is unclear because I've never seen anyone explain it to this depth. But they believe in it because it actually does work and that's really all that matters. Endure these dips and remain calm, for there is horizon on the other side.