Need a little Advice

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07-06-2021
Jado

Need a little Advice

Ok gents, I need a little advice. I've been feeling pretty decent for the last 8 months, until recently. No doubt because I've been feeling good, I pushed it a little too much, and caused this setback. I recently had labs done at my yearly check up, and I'm curious about my E level. It's within' the "normal" range, but after what I read in one of @Outlaw's posts I'm thinking it may be on the low side.

T is 725ng/dl, up from 400ng/dL when I crashed

Estradiol: 21pg/ml (52.5nmol/L)

I've tried a couple cycles of PH's, and I always start to have anxiety/derealization/depression. My last cycle of Androhard I felt great for the first approx. 10 days, then I started to have the aforementioned symptoms - pretty badly, otherwise I would have just pushed through. Anyway, I'm thinking I may be bottoming out my E?? I know some guys have done 4 Andro instead, because of this. Based on my current E level would you guys recommend trying 4 Andro for my next, planned cycle? Thanks
07-08-2021
LetsGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jado

Ok gents, I need a little advice. I've been feeling pretty decent for the last 8 months, until recently. No doubt because I've been feeling good, I pushed it a little too much, and caused this setback. I recently had labs done at my yearly check up, and I'm curious about my E level. It's within' the "normal" range, but after what I read in one of @Outlaw's posts I'm thinking it may be on the low side.

T is 725ng/dl, up from 400ng/dL when I crashed

Estradiol: 21pg/ml (52.5nmol/L)

I've tried a couple cycles of PH's, and I always start to have anxiety/derealization/depression. My last cycle of Androhard I felt great for the first approx. 10 days, then I started to have the aforementioned symptoms - pretty badly, otherwise I would have just pushed through. Anyway, I'm thinking I may be bottoming out my E?? I know some guys have done 4 Andro instead, because of this. Based on my current E level would you guys recommend trying 4 Andro for my next, planned cycle? Thanks

What CD always says is to not be too concerned with the bloodwork levels. It’s the last thing anyone with PFS wants to here, we all have this tendency to want to correct specific hormones that are imbalanced, and think that that will make everything okay again. You may have used too high of a dose of androhard. Also I don’t know if you cycled the prohormone properly - for as long as you’re on the prohormone, you need to take the same amount of time off of it, before you can do another cycle.

When you say that because you feel good, you “pushed it a little too much,” I’m not sure if that means you started using partying and slacking from the protocol? Understandable, but if so, that’s why you had a setback. The solution is going to be to just stick with the protocol and you will get the results slowly and steadily.

Personally I use Super R Andro after trying several other prohormones that did not work for me (massive insomnia.) The prohormones aren’t necessarily going to be the key here, following the protocol is the most important thing and then you use the PH cycles if you want to get faster progress. I would not worry too much about the lab results to be honest with you.
07-09-2021
Maxout777

Really need an estradiol sensitive test run using LC-MS blood testing to be able to tell if estrogen is your problem or not. Estradiol there looks fine, but you’d be surprised how much it differs between that and ECLIA.
08-31-2021
Jado

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxout777

Really need an estradiol sensitive test run using LC-MS blood testing to be able to tell if estrogen is your problem or not. Estradiol there looks fine, but you’d be surprised how much it differs between that and ECLIA.

Thanks man, not sure why I didn't see this until now - never got the email notification. I'm in a downswing currently, but plan to run straight Androsterone when I come out of it. Should I run 4-Andro with it to prevent my E from dropping, or is there something else I can do during cycle if I start to feel like it's dropping? Thanks, man
08-31-2021
Maxout777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jado

Thanks man, not sure why I didn't see this until now - never got the email notification. I'm in a downswing currently, but plan to run straight Androsterone when I come out of it. Should I run 4-Andro with it to prevent my E from dropping, or is there something else I can do during cycle if I start to feel like it's dropping? Thanks, man

Really the only thing I've found to do is run 4-Andro with it, to prevent estrogen tanking. That's why I incorporated it in my last two cycles when recovering from PFS.
08-31-2021
Outlaw

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxout777

Really the only thing I've found to do is run 4-Andro with it, to prevent estrogen tanking. That's why I incorporated it in my last two cycles when recovering from PFS.

Hey Max,

I'm starting an Ultrahard cycle next week and I'm worried about lowering my E. If I combine UH and AlphaFour, will it mitigate the impact on E?

I already did an AlphaFour cycle.
08-31-2021
Jado

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxout777

Really the only thing I've found to do is run 4-Andro with it, to prevent estrogen tanking. That's why I incorporated it in my last two cycles when recovering from PFS.

Ok, that's what I'll plan to do when this DS is over. Thanks, man.
08-31-2021
xxaleksi

You could also simply run the UH solo at a lower dose, such as 2-3 pumps daily. Should prevent crushing your E too much.

Alpha Four is great stuff but it’s expensive and also shut me down.
08-31-2021
Jado

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxaleksi

You could also simply run the UH solo at a lower dose, such as 2-3 pumps daily. Should prevent crushing your E too much.

Alpha Four is great stuff but it’s expensive and also shut me down.

How does UH differ from Androsterone? The reason I want to run Androsterone is because I definitely have issues with depleted GABA, and I know Androsterone will stimulate GABA. Just don't want to drop my E and feel miserable.
08-31-2021
xxaleksi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jado

How does UH differ from Androsterone? The reason I want to run Androsterone is because I definitely have issues with depleted GABA, and I know Androsterone will stimulate GABA. Just don't want to drop my E and feel miserable.

Ultra Hard has both Androsterone and Epiandrosterone at a 1:3 ratio.

Androsterone acts as a neurosteroid similar to Allopregnanolone, acts as a thyroid hormone mimetic, and raises DHT, while epiandro ”only” increases DHT but doesn’t have the other benefits. Epi can also increase anxiety a bit during the cycle as it works as a GABA antagonist.

They both work the same for increasing 5ar though. I had cycles of UH where my anxiety was worse on it but after coming off I was calmer than ever (increased 5ar = GABA works better)
08-31-2021
Jado

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxaleksi

Ultra Hard has both Androsterone and Epiandrosterone at a 1:3 ratio.

Androsterone acts as a neurosteroid similar to Allopregnanolone, acts as a thyroid hormone mimetic, and raises DHT, while epiandro ”only” increases DHT but doesn’t have the other benefits. Epi can also increase anxiety a bit during the cycle as it works as a GABA antagonist.

They both work the same for increasing 5ar though. I had cycles of UH where my anxiety was worse on it but after coming off I was calmer than ever (increased 5ar = GABA works better)

Man, thanks for the info! So, seeing that my remaining symptoms are only neuro (intermittent dizziness)/mental (anxiety) wouldn't it be better to avoid the epiandro, so I don't increase my anxiety?
08-31-2021
xxaleksi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jado

Man, thanks for the info! So, seeing that my remaining symptoms are only neuro (intermittent dizziness)/mental (anxiety) wouldn't it be better to avoid the epiandro, so I don't increase my anxiety?

That’s up to you. I don’t really think it matters. The increase in anxiety from the epiandro is only while you are on it. It goes away after you stop the cycle.
08-31-2021
Jado

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxaleksi

That’s up to you. I don’t really think it matters. The increase in anxiety from the epiandro is only while you are on it. It goes away after you stop the cycle.

Ok, man. Thanks again for the info!
09-02-2021
Jado

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxout777

Really the only thing I've found to do is run 4-Andro with it, to prevent estrogen tanking. That's why I incorporated it in my last two cycles when recovering from PFS.

What 4-Andro did you run, IML?
09-03-2021
delsolrob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jado

What 4-Andro did you run, IML?

Alpha Four has 4-dhea (aka 4-andro) plus androsterone in it - it has been discontinued and existing product is all that's left...if you're interested in trying it, this would be the opportune time to get some...before it's gone
09-03-2021
Maxout777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jado

What 4-Andro did you run, IML?

I ran IML’s oral Super 4-Andro Rx. Was a blue capsule in the black bottles.
09-03-2021
Jado

Quote:

Originally Posted by delsolrob

Alpha Four has 4-dhea (aka 4-andro) plus androsterone in it - it has been discontinued and existing product is all that's left...if you're interested in trying it, this would be the opportune time to get some...before it's gone

Wouldn't this work work a a replacement?

Super 4-Andro Cream IronMag Labs

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxout777

I ran IML’s oral Super 4-Andro Rx. Was a blue capsule in the black bottles.

Would this work?

Super 4-Andro Cream IronMag Labs
09-03-2021
Maxout777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jado

Wouldn't this work work a a replacement?

Super 4-Andro Cream IronMag Labs

- - - Updated - - -
Would this work?

Super 4-Andro Cream IronMag Labs

It's theoretically the same compound as the one I took, from the same vendor. Just transdermal versus oral. Some people respond better to transdermal, some people respond better to oral. It's totally bioindividual.
09-03-2021
Jado

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxout777

It's theoretically the same compound as the one I took, from the same vendor. Just transdermal versus oral. Some people respond better to transdermal, some people respond better to oral. It's totally bioindividual.

Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks man.
09-03-2021
delsolrob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jado

Wouldn't this work work a a replacement?

Super 4-Andro Cream IronMag Labs

- - - Updated - - -

Would this work?

Super 4-Andro Cream IronMag Labs

It's a lower dose and missing the androsterone the Alpha Four had - I would get alpha four while you can.

Also, from discussions I've had with the patent holder, IML does not appear to have rights to make their topical 4-andro and there will likely be legal action taken against them...I wouldn't expect that product to be available long term
09-04-2021
Jado

Quote:

Originally Posted by delsolrob

It's a lower dose and missing the androsterone the Alpha Four had - I would get alpha four while you can.

Also, from discussions I've had with the patent holder, IML does not appear to have rights to make their topical 4-andro and there will likely be legal action taken against them...I wouldn't expect that product to be available long term

Right. I would take it with IML R-Andro to get the Androsterone. Maybe I'll get all of them and do a cycle of R-Andro + 4-Andro, then to a cycle of Alpha 4 and see which is better.
09-08-2021
Mistyballoon

Hi, anyone knows how to get Alpha Four from a site that accept international credit card? I've been trying to get from DPS nutrition but they dont accept international CC.

Cheers.