Crashed from Panax Ginseng after being nearly recovered

Hi all, I haven't posted on here in a long time.
I originally crashed from propecia back in late 2019 and had a whole host of symptoms that you can read in my member story. I was particularly messed up by physical symptoms and had muscle wastage, fat loss, particularly in face and neck. I mostly recovered these symptoms just with time and looked healthy for the last year and a half and was living a more or less normal life and started to think less about PFS.

I still had slight ED so I took a few doses of 300mg panax ginseng (which I had no idea was a 5ARI like propecia, I'm a complete idiot for not doing my research) a few weeks ago and stopped cause of ball ache. Over the last week I've had a full on crash. I'm still experiencing muscle twitches all over (especially on my nose), ear clogging, face pain, jaw ache, upset stomach/digestion, dead penis. But my main issue is I've had crazy muscle wastage in the last few days. My neck, shoulders, arms, butt have all gotten softer and have what almost feels like holes of no muscle in parts of them.

My face in particular has gotten ravaged, just like it did after propecia. My eyes are sunken with dark circles, my cheeks and jaw smaller, and somehow even my NOSE has lost muscle/fat.
No brain fog, I can still get hard with manipulation, no anhedonia, just these crazy physical symptoms.

I had no idea panax ginseng was a 5ari, and even if it is how could it do this much damage after just a few doses?
Should I expect this to get better since I recovered from my first crash and ginseng isn't as strong? How bad is this going to get? I'm at a complete loss and this is ruining my mental health and semester at college. I would really appreciate some help and words of advice. Thanks.

Hey Ethan, I’m sorry to hear that you had this awful setback, man.

In terms of the strength of DHT blockers, here’s the order:

Dutasteride: 84% DHT reduction
Finasteride: 70% DHT reduction
Saw Palmetto: 50% DHT reduction
Panax Ginseng: about 15-20% DHT reduction

So it’s a lot weaker than finasteride, but still pretty strong, especially for someone with a history of PFS or who currently has PFS.

As for how could it do so much damage after just a few doses, that’s just how PFS is sometimes. There are guys who got PFS from one finasteride pill, or a few doses of saw palmetto. Others take dutasteride for 20 years and somehow don’t get affected. It’s Russian roulette, but the more powerful the DHT blocker, the more likely it is to cause PFS.

You said you were mostly recovered, but you’re not fully recovered, so it’s easy for things to collapse. If you’d never had PFS, I doubt the ginseng would cause it, but when you’re incompletely recovered from PFS, it’s like falling back down into the well. So you gotta climb back out again.

You will get better by following the CDsnuts protocol, for sure. If you follow it, you’ll see improvements again and get back to where you were, and even to full recovery this time.

This board is mostly quiet now, but there’s still a handful of us. Feel free to post if you want. Anyway, I believe in you. You got this!

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Originally Posted by LetsGo

Hey Ethan, I’m sorry to hear that you had this awful setback, man.

In terms of the strength of DHT blockers, here’s the order:

Dutasteride: 84% DHT reduction
Finasteride: 70% DHT reduction
Saw Palmetto: 50% DHT reduction
Panax Ginseng: about 15-20% DHT reduction

So it’s a lot weaker than finasteride, but still pretty strong, especially for someone with a history of PFS or who currently has PFS.

As for how could it do so much damage after just a few doses, that’s just how PFS is sometimes. There are guys who got PFS from one finasteride pill, or a few doses of saw palmetto. Others take dutasteride for 20 years and somehow don’t get affected. It’s Russian roulette, but the more powerful the DHT blocker, the more likely it is to cause PFS.

You said you were mostly recovered, but you’re not fully recovered, so it’s easy for things to collapse. If you’d never had PFS, I doubt the ginseng would cause it, but when you’re incompletely recovered from PFS, it’s like falling back down into the well. So you gotta climb back out again.

You will get better by following the CDsnuts protocol, for sure. If you follow it, you’ll see improvements again and get back to where you were, and even to full recovery this time.

This board is mostly quiet now, but there’s still a handful of us. Feel free to post if you want. Anyway, I believe in you. You got this!

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Thanks for the reply man. I'm just worried because I have some new symptoms that I didn't have the first time. Like when I flex my right bicep I can push my finger into it and feel an indent, as if its play doh. Its super freaky and I cant find another case of it on this site.

Do you think its too soon to start cycling herbs? Should I wait a few weeks since I just crashed or can I just hop into it.

Hey mate, I am one of rhe very unlucky ones who got pfs from a single dose of saw palmetto. Iam doing much much better than I used to be obviously not cured yet. Regarding your muscle wastage in your bicep, I had the same issue on my bicep and thigh, where there is a proper indent of muscle missing. This happened in my crash.
My indent has recovered quite a lot in my bicep and fully in thigh. I do go to gym 6 days a week though.
Interestingly I was about to ginseng last week and actually brought a bottle from the pharmacy. I did a bit of research on my phone while in the car and saw that it's a 5ari so didn't take. I am considering myself to be very lucky cause I seem to be very susceptible to 5ari.

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Originally Posted by Nexus9987

Hey mate, I am one of rhe very unlucky ones who got pfs from a single dose of saw palmetto. Iam doing much much better than I used to be obviously not cured yet. Regarding your muscle wastage in your bicep, I had the same issue on my bicep and thigh, where there is a proper indent of muscle missing. This happened in my crash.
My indent has recovered quite a lot in my bicep and fully in thigh. I do go to gym 6 days a week though.
Interestingly I was about to ginseng last week and actually brought a bottle from the pharmacy. I did a bit of research on my phone while in the car and saw that it's a 5ari so didn't take. I am considering myself to be very lucky cause I seem to be very susceptible to 5ari.

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Hey man thanks for the reply. Just curious did you also have any indents/fat wastage in your face? And like twitching and aches all over?

Yeah man I can’t believe I didn’t do my research on it, i just had gotten so comfortable that I didn’t see some tiny little supplement as something that could crash me so hard. I’m physically worse than I was from propecia

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Originally Posted by ethanrecovering

Thanks for the reply man. I'm just worried because I have some new symptoms that I didn't have the first time. Like when I flex my right bicep I can push my finger into it and feel an indent, as if its play doh. Its super freaky and I cant find another case of it on this site.

Do you think its too soon to start cycling herbs? Should I wait a few weeks since I just crashed or can I just hop into it.

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There have been many guys with PFS reporting “muscle wasting” which sounds like what you’re experiencing, unfortunately. I never got that symptom personally, but you will be able to recover from it.

If you’ve never done the full protocol before, you should do the medically supervised fast or at least a juice feast, for at least 1 week in a row.

You don’t take the herbs during a fast or juice feast, or (later on) if you use prohormones. Other than that, you cycle the herbs all the time, as soon as you can.

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Originally Posted by LetsGo

There have been many guys with PFS reporting “muscle wasting” which sounds like what you’re experiencing, unfortunately. I never got that symptom personally, but you will be able to recover from it.

If you’ve never done the full protocol before, you should do the medically supervised fast or at least a juice feast, for at least 1 week in a row.

You don’t take the herbs during a fast or juice feast, or (later on) if you use prohormones. Other than that, you cycle the herbs all the time, as soon as you can.

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I tried a juice feast once but by day three the pain was so bad and I was so weak. I'm also only 127 pounds at 5'11. I dont know if id be able to live my week out at college if I did that. Does the protocol still work without it?

Something weird to note is sexually and mentally I'm not affected differently after this crash. Mentally I'm fine and sexually I have the same mild ED/weaker erections as before. Its all muscle mushiness, wastage, and facial thinning from this crash.

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Originally Posted by ethanrecovering

Something weird to note is sexually and mentally I'm not affected differently after this crash. Mentally I'm fine and sexually I have the same mild ED/weaker erections as before. Its all muscle mushiness, wastage, and facial thinning from this crash.

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You will recover this!
But you need to ease your mind, stop stressing and believe. I greatly believe in the Theory behind the posts from English that it’s our mind that keeps us trapped in this state. Fix your mind and fix yourself.
Read the book You are the Placebo. Once you expel the fear and replace that emotion with positivity and belief you are greatly on your way.
All the best buddy!

Think critically.

Everyone with pfs just laps up any old shite said by guys who got lucky. I'd include myself in that regretfully until too late.

You dont need to read a book because some giy who recovered from mild to moderate pfs told you too.

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Originally Posted by road to recover

Think critically.

Everyone with pfs just laps up any old shite said by guys who got lucky. I'd include myself in that regretfully until too late.

You dont need to read a book because some giy who recovered from mild to moderate pfs told you too.

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You my friend are complete evidence of what I’ve just said in my previous post is true. You obviously don’t know how to control your fear and state of mind and you’re completely fucked up as a result. That fear keeps you damaged, where as those who control it recover!
But in a funny type of way you have inspired me to realise, that while my condition was brought on by a reaction to a medication, it’s the psychological fear that was keeping me trapped. I can’t thank you enough paddy for confirming this for me.👍.
I’m 9 months post crash and feel 90-95% healed strictly following a protocol for better physical, mental and psychological health.

So you see, while everyone one else has wanted you to fuck off away from the forum, you have given me all the answers and strength I could possibly ever need and I hope everything one else sees this too, which I’m positive they will.

Take care to all

I dont give a shit im going to off myself

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Originally Posted by road to recover

I dont give a shit im going to off myself

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👍 No probs mate

Yeah hope you crash aa well cunt, this whole thing is a load if shite that distracts mild ofs guys from getting proper medical care. This shite site has blood on its hands.

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Originally Posted by ethanrecovering

I tried a juice feast once but by day three the pain was so bad and I was so weak. I'm also only 127 pounds at 5'11. I dont know if id be able to live my week out at college if I did that. Does the protocol still work without it?

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Personally I wouldn’t worry to much Ethan, you can only do your best and stressing over it will just undo any good work.
Get on the protocol 100% and come back to a fast/feast next month when you’ve built up some mental and physical fitness.
I’ve lost two stone in the first 7 months. Suffered muscle wasting and went from a 38” waist down to 32” in the last two months I’ve put a stone back on and maintained my 32” waste and feel in the shape of my life!
I’m 47 years old!
All the best Ethan 👍

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Originally Posted by road to recover

Yeah hope you crash aa well cunt, this whole thing is a load if shite that distracts mild ofs guys from getting proper medical care. This shite site has blood on its hands.

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😂😂
I’m not quite sure how you manage it paddy but you’re a comical fella and always seem to put me in a good positive mood!
Cheers pal😘

How much muscle did you waste?
Im diwn with this fucking lazarus shite

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Originally Posted by road to recover

How much muscle did you waste?
Im diwn with this fucking lazarus shite

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Road to Recover, while you drive down your road of recovery stop looking in your rear view mirror all the time and concentrate on what’s in front of you ( your future, your health returning, a happy life)
You’re driving your life looking 100% behind you and that’s why you constantly crash. It’s impossible to avoid a crash unless you focus on what’s in front of you.

I know you won’t get what I’m saying, but no doubt others will.

Ok mate im insane with this. Severe pfs guys dont come here for a reason.

I appreciate the sentiment in your post.
I didnt crash for 13 years, 12 if yiu start with the mini crash in 2021 that affected sensitivity nut I still. Had good libido for. Months if not fuller erections.

Im. In deep shit lost a ton of muscle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by road to recover

How much muscle did you waste?
Im diwn with this fucking lazarus shite

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by road to recover

Ok mate im insane with this. Severe pfs guys dont come here for a reason.

I appreciate the sentiment in your post.
I didnt crash for 13 years, 12 if yiu start with the mini crash in 2021 that affected sensitivity nut I still. Had good libido for. Months if not fuller erections.

Im. In deep shit lost a ton of muscle.

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I’m really sorry paddy I haven’t got time to reply right now as I’m off out. I’ve got a life to live and I’ve made lots of new friends since my crash, which I needed to do as a lost my girl friend over this.
But on a social level I do great again and I’ve also just started dating an amazing woman who I met on holiday while living my life to its fullest possible!
I suggest you do the same!
All the best👍

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Originally Posted by Mjw1999

You my friend are complete evidence of what I’ve just said in my previous post is true. You obviously don’t know how to control your fear and state of mind and you’re completely fucked up as a result. That fear keeps you damaged, where as those who control it recover!
But in a funny type of way you have inspired me to realise, that while my condition was brought on by a reaction to a medication, it’s the psychological fear that was keeping me trapped. I can’t thank you enough paddy for confirming this for me.👍.
I’m 9 months post crash and feel 90-95% healed strictly following a protocol for better physical, mental and psychological health.

So you see, while everyone one else has wanted you to fuck off away from the forum, you have given me all the answers and strength I could possibly ever need and I hope everything one else sees this too, which I’m positive they will.

Take care to all

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(Stands up) clap, clap, clap, clap.

Good post.

And that is EXACTLY what you guys are following. Nicely put.

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Originally Posted by Mjw1999

You my friend are complete evidence of what I’ve just said in my previous post is true. You obviously don’t know how to control your fear and state of mind and you’re completely fucked up as a result. That fear keeps you damaged, where as those who control it recover!
But in a funny type of way you have inspired me to realise, that while my condition was brought on by a reaction to a medication, it’s the psychological fear that was keeping me trapped. I can’t thank you enough paddy for confirming this for me.👍.
I’m 9 months post crash and feel 90-95% healed strictly following a protocol for better physical, mental and psychological health.

So you see, while everyone one else has wanted you to fuck off away from the forum, you have given me all the answers and strength I could possibly ever need and I hope everything one else sees this too, which I’m positive they will.

Take care to all

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I took seroquel in a panic you are right

I shoukd.have just told tjem.all tonfuck.off and that i recovered and then left the shiteblike

Instead I took seroquel and had a heard of !sorry

Smoking seroquel

And still.My baseline was.so strong after years ifnlibido that interviewed in 2020 On z!a fluctuate but STILL ducked it up by takingbseroquek.her and there

Whatbabtwat