Boron for more DHT and free T

Ran across an article talking about boron and its interesting effects on the endocrine system with respect to free testosterone and DHT. It's relatively cheap and there are some studies that speak to the benefits.

It was found to decrease the amount of SHBG in the blood, which would make it a great thing to add to PCT.

This study: Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on pl... - PubMed - NCBI - although a small group, showed free testosterone levels went up by 28% and, estrogen levels dropped by 39% and serum DHT also increased significantly while SHBG levels decreased significantly.

They did this one on the effects of boron supplementation on serum vitamin D levels, but on the side they also measured serum hormone levels from their subjects.

http://www.bioimmersion.com/media/do..._monograph.pdf

The researchers in this case saw that the boron supplementation had increased their subjects free testosterone levels by 29.5%.

Looks like this is one I'll be adding to my pro T/DHT diet plan in the future, along with sorghum.

So boron and sorghum? Anything else you recommend or anything you recommend we stay away from? I think I remember you saying that 5a inhibitors or something were bad for DHT levels? I think I've also seen you mention omeprazole being bad as well? Whats your full recommendation?

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Originally Posted by Spank

So boron and sorghum? Anything else you recommend or anything you recommend we stay away from? I think I remember you saying that 5a inhibitors or something were bad for DHT levels? I think I've also seen you mention omeprazole being bad as well? Whats your full recommendation?

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Stay away from:

Rice
Fenugreek
Saw palmetto
Astaxanthin
Safflower
Finasteride
Reishi
Licorice root

I have seen research that indicates certain acid reducers can be anti-androgenic. The worst offender, I'm told, is Tagamet.

One surprising thing that will help your DHT levels a bunch is creatine. Here's the study to back up my claim:

Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydro... - PubMed - NCBI

Here's an excerpt:

RESULTS:

After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).
CONCLUSIONS:

Creatine supplementation may, in part, act through an increased rate of conversion of T to DHT. Further investigation is warranted as a result of the high frequency of individuals using creatine supplementation and the long-term safety of alterations in circulating androgen composition. STATEMENT OF CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Although creatine is a widely used ergogenic aid, the mechanisms of action are incompletely understood, particularly in relation to dihydrotestosterone, and therefore the long-term clinical safety cannot be guaranteed.

And one major test booster that I will be adding to my arsenal of supplements will be Ashwagandha.

This study -- Withania somnifera improves semen quality by regulating reproductiv... - PubMed - NCBI --- found out that infertile men who are given 5 grams of Ashwagandha for 3 months increase their testosterone levels by 40% on average when compared to placebo. The men who had normal sperm activity noticed an increase of 15%.

This study -- Clinical Evaluation of the Spermatogenic Activity of the Root Extra... - PubMed - NCBI -- arrived at a similar conclusion. The Ashwagandha group had increased their testosterone levels by 17% when compared to the placebo group. They also saw a 34% increase in luteinizing hormone (LH), which shows that Ashwagandha works by stimulating testosterone synthesis inside the gonads.

And here's another -- Withania somnifera Improves Semen Quality in Stress-Related Male Fertility -- and what they found out was that their subjects had increased testosterone levels by 16% on average and that their stress hormone (cortisol) levels had dropped roughly by 30%.

And then here's a double-blind, randomized, controlled, placebo study: http://www.lifeforce.net/pdfs/withania_review.pdf

It gave both men and women, a 250-500 mg dose of Ashwagandha for mixed durations (1-6 months) and found out that on average their subjects cortisol levels dropped by 14% and that their HDL cholesterol levels increased by 17.3%.

Pretty interesting stuff.

Also avoid dutasteride and plastics containing BPA.

Oh.. Cottonseed oil and soy products too.

Statin drugs are pretty awful too. Wow this is a long list.

FPR, cdsnuts etc. I think we should turn this into a dedicated thread. "Things to avoid to protect your manhood".

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Originally Posted by entropy

Also avoid dutasteride and plastics containing BPA.

Oh.. Cottonseed oil and soy products too.

Statin drugs are pretty awful too. Wow this is a long list.

FPR, cdsnuts etc. I think we should turn this into a dedicated thread. "Things to avoid to protect your manhood".

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I would not doubt it if statin drugs are largely responsible for the ED/low testosterone epidemic. Cholesterol is a direct precursor to testosterone. When you cut it off, test is inevitably going to follow.

And soy, yeah, damn, absolutely NO GOOD can come of a man eating soy. I can cite study after study that demonstrates countless reasons why it should have no place in a man's diet.

Latrogenesis is the third biggest cause of death in America iirc. Basically, if you get prescribed anything, do the research before you take it. A lot of meds (5ari's, accutane, anti depressants, statins etc) have adverse effects on the endocrine system. Sucks.

Lol stay away from cottonseed oil..ill just throw these bottles of golden goodness out lol

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Originally Posted by tallstraw

Lol stay away from cottonseed oil..ill just throw these bottles of golden goodness out lol

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I would do that right now.

Infertility in male rats induced by diets containing whole cottonse... - PubMed - NCBI
MaleContraceptives.org -- Gossypol
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Cottonseed and Infertility | Wisconsin Institute of Nutrition, LLP

Oh shit.

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Originally Posted by tallstraw

Oh shit.

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The context in which you're applying cottonseed oil probably makes the issues negligent, IMHO :)

I was just thinking, this thread could easily be re-named: "Stuff that makes your wiener stop working," or "Stuff that's good for your wiener and manhood."

I first started noticing a drop in libido and function at 27. I was dating a 22 year old at the time, so I was really mind fucked that I may have already experienced the best sex I would ever have with someone I would not be marrying. I never thought it would get any better, so I am super pumped that my life's journey has led me down this path. There is hope yet! I mean there are a lot of scheduling issues that aren't helping right now, but that makes it even more important that I be ready whenever an opportunity arises. Getting old sucks because right at a time when my mind and life are actually becoming enjoyable my body is on a decline. wtf?!

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Originally Posted by Freepressright

The context in which you're applying cottonseed oil probably makes the issues negligent, IMHO :)

I was just thinking, this thread could easily be re-named: "Stuff that makes your wiener stop working," or "Stuff that's good for your wiener and manhood."

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Agreed but the part about smaller families in areas where they used cottonseed oil to cook and the lower fertility in the trials not always being reversable creeps me the fuck out.

I think that thread should be a totally separate thread entirely, fpr. Between a few of the members here we could yet a really nice thread together.

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Originally Posted by entropy

Agreed but the part about smaller families in areas where they used cottonseed oil to cook and the lower fertility in the trials not always being reversable creeps me the fuck out.

I think that thread should be a totally separate thread entirely, fpr. Between a few of the members here we could yet a really nice thread together.

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My phone changed "negligible" to "negligent," LOL. I believe Tallstraw is referring to cottonseed oil as a carrier agent.

But yes, perhaps we need to open a thread about everything that supports sexual function and the stuff that sabotages it.

yeah. pfizer uses cottonseed oil for their test and it worries me since most cotton is gmo and I'm injecting that shit right into myself....but....i guess since I'm not just injecting cottonseed, but also the test..... guess i don't need to worry as much???? idk. it does concern me.....although not quite enough to not do it lol

I just bought some ashwaganda and some fructo borate from bioimmursion. Lets see how these fair in my pct regime.

So I spent my entire pubertal years eating mostly soy protein, as well as two cycles of accutane. What kind of damage might i have done? I still like tofu..

Accutane is evil stuff for the people who get effected by it but like SSRIs and 5aris it doesn't effect everyone. The info is available online. They even did a documentary about it over here called "dying for clear skin". I think its on YouTube. I wouldn't risk another cycle of it if you avoided the nasty stuff. As for tofu etc, I don't think enjoying it occasionally would cause any big problems, but ive heard of large amounts of soymilk consumption causing high E symptoms, ED low T etc etc.

I took Accutane when I was in high school for about 6 months if I remember right. It's nasty stuff for sure. I became extremely susceptible to sun burn which was completely out of the norm for me as I already have a fairly dark complexion anyway. I also suffered from very dry/cracking lips that was very uncomfortable. All those side effects went away after I stopped taking it but about two years ago, which would have been about fifteen years after I stopped taking it, I developed Ulcerative Colitis. Since then I've wondered if the Accutane may have played a role in developing UC. I just wonder if it could take that long after taking the medication to develop something like that...

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Originally Posted by Strong_Guy

I took Accutane when I was in high school for about 6 months if I remember right. It's nasty stuff for sure. I became extremely susceptible to sun burn which was completely out of the norm for me as I already have a fairly dark complexion anyway. I also suffered from very dry/cracking lips that was very uncomfortable. All those side effects went away after I stopped taking it but about two years ago, which would have been about fifteen years after I stopped taking it, I developed Ulcerative Colitis. Since then I've wondered if the Accutane may have played a role in developing UC. I just wonder if it could take that long after taking the medication to develop something like that...

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I had a bad case of pneumonia as a sophomore in high school, before the summer of my junior year. I was put on a shit ton of corticosteroids. I had almost never had acne up to that point. That's all it took and I got hit with THE worst case of cystic acne on my face.

My doctor's PA prescribed me tetracycline and Differin gel and that wasn't really touching it. They were within inches of prescribing me Accutane, but the PA was wise to how toxic it was and told me I'd need regular liver enzyme draws and if I was going to have sex I needed to always wear protection while on it.

At the time I was fucking a girl a year younger than me who was on birth control and blowing it in her every time. There was no way in hell I was going to rubber up after going bareback, LOL. So I passed on the Accutane. So glad I did.

This shit is taken a lot in competitive bodybuilding circles. Steroids always get a bad rep as killing these guys long term, but some of their diets and drugs like this are far more toxic than what they're shooting for anabolics.

There's another side to SHBG that isn't discussed. It doesn't just bind up test; it also binds up E2. This is why total test tends to drop when free test is increased.

I picked up some boron. How should it be dosed?

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Originally Posted by Ape McGrapes

I picked up some boron. How should it be dosed?

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The first study had the participants taking 10mg every morning with breakfast.

Second study used 6mg of the calcium fructo-borate form of it.

Okay the plan was to take 12mg(3mg pills) all at one in the morning so I'm spot on. Unless 9mg would be just as effective. I thought I saw somewhere, however, about doing 5 days on 2 days off.

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Originally Posted by Ape McGrapes

Okay the plan was to take 12mg(3mg pills) all at one in the morning so I'm spot on. Unless 9mg would be just as effective. I thought I saw somewhere, however, about doing 5 days on 2 days off.

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I just take 3mg a day with my multi

I've been cycling boron for the last year at 6mg a day. Don't let this put you off, but my SHBG went up! Don't worry, it was because E rose too along with rising T. Oats/Avena Sativa is another compound quoted to lower SHBG, and while i'm here, other things linked with lower SHBG are: Insulin resistance and obesity - natures way of keeping fat guys functioning i guess.
Interestingly SHBG keeps androgens viable for much longer, meaning your boys don't need to work as hard - i read a doctor trying to make out like this was a good thing - personally i don't give a shit how hard they work! Give me high T and SHBG at 20 please!

Guys, i have a query, earlier in the thread you were talking about the effect on cholestorol and DHTof statins. Well i have high Cholestorol and i used to drink the yoghurt drinks and spreads which controlled it nicely. Since i had a drug reaction i binned all of it.
They contain plant sterols and stanols dependent on which brand. I could do with getting my cholestorol back down again. Do any of you know whether these plant sterols and stanols are bad for DHT or manly functions in general.
I am cool with the effect on T, because my cholestorol was 7.5 so reducing it to 5 again will still provide me with more than enough (as mentioned by jelisej earlier) however just checking they don't have any other weird affects.

I take 3mg of boron a day because my SHBG was on the high side. My libido definitely jumped after taking this.

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Originally Posted by basementdweller

I take 3mg of boron a day because my SHBG was on the high side. My libido definitely jumped after taking this.

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How long you were on boron to feel an improved libido?

Dimensions of dihydrotestosterone, cortisol, and nutrient D expanded somewhat. The huge decline in the men's plasma E2 following multi week of boron supplementation recommends a higher rate of change of all out testosterone (T) to free testosterone (FT) in the testosterone metabolic pathway.